Is SATA Obsolete?

[@weirdguybr]

PATA went away not because of SSDs (it took them *years* to become cheap and common enough to justify any industry-wide changes) - it went away because every hard drive manufacturer moved to SATA, as it's a cheaper standard to implement, had better performance than PATA and was easier for users to deal with (fewer pins to bend and also no jumpers to set the drive role in the "chain"). It also had massive implications on the SMB server business, since you suddenly could manufacture cheaper servers using SATA instead of SCSI and fit a lot more disks per chassis with somewhat decent performance. This is exactly the same reason that not long after, SCSI went away and got replaced by SAS, also known as Serial Attached SCSI.

[@killertruth186]

Also, if you had managed to damage the SATA lock or whatever that piece that sticks in a vertical direction while the pins are in a horizontal position. It still works.

[@bgezal]

I used SCSI for the longest time while ATA-disks become cheap. I could use a lot of disks compared to the 2+2 maximum that was the case with ATA. Disadvantage was the jumper hell of unique addressing, and the bus terminators. I eventually gave up on SCSI and went SATA. The disks were sooo much cheaper.

[@johndoh5182]

And don't forget the cable. Thick ribbon cable that blocked air current through the case.

[@stevenlee3661]

Yeah pata died before ssd were commonly used in pcs. I think the last motherboards to use pata was a few sandy bridge motherboards, which sandy bridge was released in 2011, so ssds were not cheap enough like you say and pointless for people with windows 7 at the time. Definitely not ssds that killed it.

[@stevenlee3661]

@@johndoh5182 aka the "CPU and GPU suffocator!"

[@CattoRayTube]

I recall SATA becoming dominant a good decade before SSDs started becoming standard into non-enthusiast system.

[@Pidalin]

From what I remember, MBs had Sata connectors from like 2004, I had first sata HDDs in like 2006 or 2007 and in 2008, PATA HDDs were already obsolete and you could buy only SATA new HDDs, that's like 5 years before SSDs started be more common, so say that PATA disapeared because of SSDs is nonsense, it disapeared even before SSDs, there was already SATA II in 2007, it's much older than some people think and the latest versions of PATA supported 133 MB/s which is more than even young SSDs could reach. And the main power of SSD is not transfer speed, it's low latency which worked perfectly even on PATA, I remember some PATA SSDs, it existed.

[@SerBallister]

@@Pidalin "it's low latency" Yeah, seek times were monstrously large on mechanical drives and none-existant on SSD.

[@trismegistus2881]

Coming from a Mac guy, the Power Mac already had SATA from 2003 onwards...

[@Pidalin]

@@leeloodog sata cables were really badly designed, it was so fragile, you could damage connectors so easily and you still can, they should replace them already with Sata II standard

[@johndoh5182]

@@Pidalin Dude, SATA drives and MBs came out about the same time. Your MB had one or the other. It doesn't do any good to have a MB with SATA if there are no SATA drives.

[@thestig007]

Most motherboards only have 1 or 2 NVMe slots, but many more Sata ports. SATA is here to stay for now just for the ability to add more storage drives.

[@chronometer9931]

Pcie expansion cards can hold 1-4 nvme slots, no need for SATA ports

[@salemas5]

@@chronometer9931 yes, but then you have to share bandwith with GPU.

[@chronometer9931]

@@salemas5 Most people aren't going to run into a problem like that and even if they did they wouldn't notice

[@REXae86]

@@chronometer9931 they would notice

[@rayyannadeem1924]

not anymore, my aorus z690 board has 5 nvme slots and only 4 sata

[@SoulRipper]

Another Reason SATA is super valuable is that PC's as old as 20 years do have sata ports. And you can literally breate life into old pc's(atleast 10 years old) just by swapping the HDD with an SSD

[@一本のうんち]

On older SATA gen 1 motherboards you're capped at 150MB/s. Modern HDDs run at ~200MB/s... On PCs 10-20 years old you're not gonna see any speed improvement.

[@SoulRipper]

@@一本のうんち the details is in the devil. See, the way IO requests works is that the chipset sends request to the storage 'storage onboard controller. Now the responsibility of the SATA controller is to just wait for the required data. This is where SSD are superior. Since the tech is good(abstracted reasoning), the access time is going to be much faster than that of an HDD, since the reasons are (short version) PHYSICS

[@3333927]

@@SoulRipper You're right. I have an 13 year old laptop. After installing a modern SSD it was much faster than with the original HDD. Thus I can use my very old Laptop till now as an alternative to my energy-hungry PC. It's just fine for youtube, surfing through the www and office. That would be impossible with a HDD.

[@ruekurei88]

@@一本のうんち My Desktop PC is circa 2008, capped at 300MB, I switched out an HDD for and SSD and there was a massive improvement there. My Laptop saw the most improvment tho, as it didn't have that cap, but it's from 2015. Point is, there are a lot of machines that would benefit from an SSD right now.

[@litebands4349]

@@一本のうんち i am running a 10 year old motherboard and it has 2 SATA III slots.

[@AttilaSVK]

Some fun facts: 1) SATA has been around for 19 years, while the lifespan of PATA was about 22 years (first drives started shipping in 1986 and by 2008 SATA took over about 99% of the market). 2) The original speed of PATA was 8,3MB/s and was bumped up to 33, 66, 100 and 133MB/s during its lifetime. That's a 16x increase. SATA's transfer speed increase so far is only 4x. (theoretically, if we consider the latest SAS-4 standard, we could stretch it to 16x, as it uses the same cable, but otherwise no SATA drives will benefit from such a fast SAS controller, and SAS drives won't be recognized by a SATA controller)

[@edelzocker8169]

Good HDDs are still faster than eMMC/SD and some cheap SSDs

[@nonamenosurname8516]

@@edelzocker8169 thats correct, but if u search your PC eshop and u search all SSDs by its price lets say at 128GB size. Cheapest you find are NVMe with 1600/600 well if u add 1,4USD compare to absolutely cheapest SATA SSDs. BTW I just searched HDD with lowest capacity. Its WD Blue 500GB which cost double compare to cheapest NVMe 512GB drive. And at 1TB SATA SSD, HDD and NVMe has +/-3USD same price. By those "cheap SSDs" you would have to order them from unknown manufactures to get slower speed than HDDs. HDDs has their use. But in personal PCs they are out. Even if u want 4TB which favours HDD in pricing. There is like +15%USD difference between cheapest 1TB SDD + 4TB HDD compare to 2x2TB NVMe or 1x4TB NVMe

[@Soundwave142]

Considering the simplicity of SATA, when connecting for example, I wonder if there will be a SATA 4 that can rival PCI-E when it comes to storage or it will run on the PCI-E lanes like the NVME drives.

[@regisegek4675]

@@Soundwave142 that would be dope, and SATA 5 that would be almost PCI E GEN 3 speeds

[@Bayofthe91st]

Meanwhile my 10 years old 3.5 HDD still kicking for storing my entire..uh..memorial homework and college subjects..

[@blackjack2526]

Currently will be buying a Seagate 2tb 2.5 HDD for my Laptop due to how cheap it is.

[@tylereatsfood8194]

“Homework”

[@Melatoninist]

Word of advice backup your stuff. My 8 year old pc died back in 2021 and I lost years of my life and tons of work.

[@Obospeedo]

Ayo 📸🤨

[@Bigdog1787]

Delete that homework already lol just tell them your dog ate it years ago if they ask to re-see it🤭

[@EpicB]

Even if SSDs take over for day to day use I don't think old school SATA hard drives will be going away anytime soon, simply because they're still cheaper for bulk storage.

[@Bigdog1787]

Hdd drives also last longer and will slow down normally before they fail. Ssds when they fail that's it no warning just fails instantly.

[@chronometer9931]

While HDDs are cheaper for now, that gap drops a lot every year and is rapidly changing. I wouldn't say the price advantage will be there that much longer

[@Codysdab]

@@Bigdog1787 I dunno I've had too many HDDs die due to mechanical failures, long before even one of my SSDs has run out of room.

[@emenesu]

Double negative makes the sentence confusing, and wrong.

[@zeroturn7091]

I shudder to think of recreating my 80TB pool with NVMe only😵‍💫

[@Great.Milenko]

its still a cheap easy standard which is more than enough for most users, maybe not so much for tech enthusiasts. but for 99% of people its easily fast enough.

[@hubertnnn]

I think the fact that it can use a cable is a bigger advantage than being cheap.

[@Great.Milenko]

@@hubertnnn thats true, and im still surprised there's no way to use a standardized nvme "cable" there are ways, but nothing simple.

[@REXae86]

And here i am still using a HDD and a nvme boot drive. Thought about getting a nvme to replace my HDD, but the price over a SATA drive isn’t worth it IMO.

[@TehObLiVioUs]

storage enthusiasts would disagree, that being, those who want their 8 TB + HDD's

[@JorgetePanete]

It's*

[@VirtuallyGreen]

Secondary NVME drive slots usually connect to the chipset and not use the pcie lanes for the CPU. There are some exceptions with motherboards, which allocate x8 lanes to the NVME drives, but usually you are not giving up GPU lanes for additional NVME drives.

[@drteknical6571]

If it's ON the PCIe bus, it uses "lanes". duh

[@Tegamal]

I'm running a B450 board, and if the second NVMe slot is populated, my GPU is bumped down from 16x to 8x. I was considering getting a second 2tb NVMe, but after accidentally stumbling into this information, I'm considering a 2tb SATA SSD for games. The drawbacks are minimal, and the price is pretty much the same.

[@saadhero9107]

That's correct, I'm utilizing more then 1 and the other M.2 is on the chipset lanes with like the usb stuff

[@Crawfishness]

Where does one check for this information to know which method their motherboard is using?

[@legendaryz_ch]

But it's connected to the chipset which is a switch duh usually connected thru pcie x4 to the cpu ​so it doesnt use any additional lanes on the cpu rather the cpu has 24 lanes whereof four are used for the chipset connection

[@smakfu1375]

Let’s get the history correct here: SATA replaced ATA-5/6, it was only called parallel ATA posthumously. Even the term ATA, or AT attached storage, wasn’t used much, as everyone just called them IDE drives. PATA was never a standard: the 40 pin ATA cable, and the various PIO and UDMA modes were standards that rode over the basic ATA interface. An interface which started life as nothing more than an arbitrated bridge interface to the 16 bit IBM PC AT ISA bus (thus the name AT-attachment interface), as the core drive controller was located on the drives logic board (thus the name IDE, for integrated drive electronics).

[@XerrolAvengerII]

thanks for that little history lesson, I'd honestly forgotten most of those details 🙂

[@zeruty]

I think atapi.sys is where most people saw ATA

[@MrCrdub]

I always referred to them as IDE cables... although there were smaller, fewer pins, "pata" cables for floppy drives and we just called them floppy drive cables.

[@johndoh5182]

Yes, the interface was called ATA, and the cables and drives were called IDE. Yes, to make a distinction between SATA and ATA, ATA got nicknamed PATA almost immediately after SATA came out.

[@HeyItsJonny]

The more I read, the louder piccolo became.

[@johndoh5182]

PATA died to SATA. Not anything else. SATA is much easier to deal with in many ways. The mechanical drives are the same. Only difference is the controller and the cables. PATA cables were thick ribbon cables and a PATA connection was limited to 2 drives, which needed jumpers set. In the space of a single PATA port on a MB, you get 6 SATA ports. There were usually 2 PATA ports, for a total of 4 drives. Moving to SATA allowed the space for ports to be cut in half on the MB, along with adding 2 more mechanical drives to the system, and then some MBs added 2 more SATA ports for a total of 8. It's kind of like saying a MB got faded away because of newer MBs. It's true, but you still have a MB. Many home systems don't need mechanical drives anymore. They've moved to large volume data storage, and for that they're still king. With 20TB drives now, 4 SATA ports give 80TB of storage. Somehow I don't see that being economical for a home user within the next 10 years if you move that to NVMe, that is 80TB of storage. I don't see SATA ports going away anytime soon. And, let's remember that the typical NVMe drive isn't really accessible. It sits between the GPU and CPU, or is under the GPU. This means you typically have to take off a CPU cooler to get to it, or remove the GPU, or both.

[@emu071981]

I have never seen a M.2 slot that was covered by the CPU cooler (unless you had a behemoth of a CPU cooler that came close to interfering with the GPU). The GPU on the other hand... It does beg the question though, how often do you need to access your NVMe drives and at what point do you have problems with removing the GPU? My main M.2 slot is not interfered with by my GPU but the other 3 would require the removal of my GPU which would be a pain because it has tubes attached.

[@jeremywp123]

Thanks for repeating the video in the comments 👍

[@pandemicneetbux2110]

Let me put it to you guys this way, I had an old Dell prebuilt with a hard drive and that infamous shitty Dell OEM board, albeit a time long enough ago they were still standard not the nonsense whatever the F Dell is doing with nonstandard plugs/form factor. So my board has only 4 SATA ports, plus an extra mSATA for some strange reason that I never even used for most of the machine's existence. Of those 4 SATA ports, I think two of them were running old 3gbp/s mode, with really only one being allocated to modern fast SATA iirc. I ended up putting a second SATA drive in, but it had an optical drive (back when all drivers etc. came on CD). So now while I do get to have my wifi and a 128gb mSATA, I'd have to disable my optical drive to get another drive. You will understand perfectly well why having more fast SATA ports matters after having to deal with that, and I ended up having to basically just get cheap USB 3.1 flash drives to leave plugged in all the time as my new game install directories toward the end of that system's lifetime. Now imagine telling me well we'll give you another couple mSATA's you'd have to partially disassemble your computer to install/replace but you'll now have to give up some of your super limited USB ports and halve your SATA. That's why the premise itself is madness to me, because keep in mind most people just buy laptops and prebuilts so you're making throwaway systems basically. Like you have NO IDEA how much joy it gave me just to double my number of SATA ports on this new machine, and not have any of the bullshit in the old one. Most people are going to be buying cheaper boards who build themself, and are meanwhile counting their coins, so NVMe is still going to be more expensive than a hard drive and SSD for games, so those boards are going to be making lots of sacrifices in making room for more NVMe for something most gamers are going to find somewhat pointless. Also keeping in mind that one extra thing: storage wasn't always cheap, and games are getting bigger. We're talking about 110gb installs now. Just imagine something having a whopping 220gb install in the future. We're at a time where storage is simply cheap, but relative to how big some of those are getting, like 4k videos and future games, and even if it's cheaper then that 4tb NVMe drive is looking like a bad option.

[@emu071981]

​@@pandemicneetbux2110 You can buy a 4TB harddrive for $USD 69. You can pick up a 500GB NVMe SSD for around $USD40-$USD50. The combination of these two storage devices will serve the average user for the foreseeable future - i.e. OS on the NVMe drive, some games on the NVMe drive and the rest along with bulky data on the HDD. NVMe drives are roughly the same price as the equivalent sized SATA SSD as long as you avoid PCIe gen 4/5 NVMe drives which are kind of overkill for the average user.

[@krashd]

@@jeremywp123 He didn't repeat the video, the video wrongly stated that SSD killed off PATA when it didn't, SATA just replaced PATA. SATA was released in 2000, did you own a solid state drive in 2000? Because no one else. SATA was just the next evolutionary step for connecting internal components and so it replaced PATA, just as PCI replaced ISA for internal cards and USB replaced COM and PS2 for external peripherals.

[@raymondtrabulsy7294]

I remember the first time I saw a computer with an SSD. It's boot up time blew my mind.

[@Jamman1403]

Same! I upgraded my laptop to an ssd and it was crazy. Thought everyone was exhadurating. Also it ran a lot cooler as well

[@sebastianvangen]

Bought my first 128 GB SSD for 129 USD back in 2011.

[@Jamman1403]

Bought my first ssd in the end of 2020. Also 128 gig for like £30 second hand

[@YounesLayachi]

3 seconds Vs ... 2 minutes

[@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis]

It was like 1984 all over again, when Apple introduced the Macintosh. 8 seconds of boot time is still quite awesome.

[@RAndrewNeal]

There's no reason M.2 drives _need_ to be screwed down. They could be designed to click in place on that end like RAM sticks or PCI-e cards. Why they aren't designed like that already (at least for the better motherboard manufacturers) is a mystery to me. Or even a mod piece that replaces the standard standoff which clips the screw end of the M.2 drive down. Edit: please read the replies before you make your own, as what you're about to say has probably already been said and the discussion surrounding it has already been had.

[@Charlesb88]

Most likely the thinking is that few users need to regularly remove/swap internal M.2 SSDs so why bother with a locking clip or whatever in place of a screw which is more secure. For laptops, a clip could have the potential downside of coming undone when Moving the laptop and loosing your connection to the system drive and then your system crashes (or other issue if it’s a secondary drive). With a desktop MB that’s less of an issue since few people move their Desktop PC’s while on but still a clip isn’t as secure as a screw and if you’ll likely not be removing/swapping M.2 SSD’s regularly a screw isn’t that hard to manage.

[@RAndrewNeal]

@@Charlesb88 I did think about the point about not swapping drives very often, but a well-designed clip would be just as secure as the screw, even if made of plastic (of decent quality which won't get brittle or crumble after prolonged exposure to the conditions in a PC/laptop case such as heat). It's less about the need to frequently swap and more about the convenience when the time does come to add or swap one. The plastic part would probably even be cheaper than the metal standoff, even after the R&D. Plastic clips hold in the RAM sticks (along with friction), and you _know_ those aren't going anywhere unless you push the tabs down. It seems to me that there is no reason besides R&D costs not to use a clip instead of a screw. Somebody with a 3D printer and who used M.2 drives should prototype this and see what they can come up with. It'd be really cool to see.

[@Charlesb88]

I don't see much demand for this thus not much chance MB manufacturers would do since they are already set up for the screw fastener method. But I could see this being a somewhat easy DIY project for some who really want one and have a 3D Printer For others, maybe even going a different route such as using a strip of Velcro to hold SSD down (that does have the added hassle of having to swap the Velcro strip or make anew one each time you swap drives). As M.2 SSD's are lightweight you don't need anything stronger the Velcro or basic 3D printer plastic. For me I never found the short screws holding down M.2 SSD's to be that difficult to remove quickly anyways.

[@RAndrewNeal]

@@Charlesb88 True, demand is pretty much 0. But in my opinion, with every connector being friction- or clip-fit, M.2 should see the upgrade. But I guess that's just me.

[@JMcMillen]

@@RAndrewNeal But like most expansion cards (PCIe, PCI, ISA, etc...), they will benefit from having a second point securing them down. All but the smallest of expansion cards always had the back panel bracket that needed to be screwed in to secure the card in place. RAM benefits from having a long connector and only sticking out from it's connector an inch or so. M.2 devices stick out much further from their connection point. Vibrations are a thing that happen, even if we as humans can't feel them. That's why some computer hardware problems get resolved by unplugging and then plugging the item back in. So even if M.2 devices could lock into their sockets, it would still be better with the other end secured as well (especially for portable devices). And given the variety of lengths of M.2 devices, you'd have to screw the other end down anyway.

[@A0D0D7Y]

No. SATA is alive and kicking. Just because you can afford an NVME doesn't mean everyone in this world can.

[@maxcady360]

I am surprised how quickly NVME ssds took over the Sata ones.

[@aaronwoodcock4715]

I know the m.2 slot has been around for about a decade now, but having a state drive was a rich person's item. I remember forking out $400 for my first 1tb Samsung Evo Sata ssd in 2016, and now they're only $60.

[@118Shadow118]

even the lowest end NVMe SSDs are like 3 times faster than the fastest SATA SSDs (with high end ones being 20 and more times faster). Since they usually cost about the same, it makes sense people would go for NVMe over SATA. Also the prices have been going down a lot (for both SATA and NVMe), in the video he mentioned 2TB for 250$, now, a year later, you could get a 2TB SSD for a little over 100$

[@phamnguyenductin]

​@@118Shadow118 Short answer is - No, NVMe aren't 3 times faster than SATA. Long answer - the thing you're mentioning is sequential R/W throughput, which doesn't really tell anything much about a drive's real-life performance. Instead, it's latency and random throughput, in terms of which NVMe drives hardly differ from SATA. In fact, NVMe drives can barely saturate SATA-1 (150 MB/s) bandwidth with random R/W.

[@The_Prizessin_der_Verurteilung]

Not that quickly to be honest. SATA SSDs have been around since 2009, NVMEs came out in 2011 but didn't become the norm until the 2020s. Many things have succeeded their predecessors quicker, like blu-rays taking over from DVDs and HD-DVDs, OLED TVs taking over Plasma TVs, etc.

[@sonicjhiq]

Also Sata is used for those rare people (me included) who still have an optical disc drive in their PC

[@chronometer9931]

I can't imagine why anyone would still be using one of those pos

[@hubertnnn]

Are we really that rare? Optical drives still have plenty of uses: music, videos, drivers to those stupid ancient modems the ISP is providing us with (sorry for rant).

[@Muxeroth]

@@hubertnnn you can find that stuff online why would you need a products copy?

[@Imgema]

@@hubertnnn Nah, you can just store all that shit in a flash drive.

[@BrianG61UK]

That was my first thought too. I don't think they even mentioned it in the video :( Surely We're not that odd for wanting to have an ODD in our PCs?

[@Xylight]

Sata will not die, just like HDDs still haven't completely died

[@ggEmolicious]

That's what they said about 5.25" floppy disks!

[@Bayofthe91st]

Also it less risky for failure and age longer, despite having moving parts

[@YOEL_44]

@@ggEmolicious Mine's still working, so there's hope, long live floppy!!!!

[@Jfry69]

u cant compare it with that

[@Xylight]

@@ggEmolicious Not anytime soon

[@Ivan-pr7ku]

The SATA interface is simply serialized ATA protocol, similar to how PCI-Express carries over the legacy PCI signaling. SATA's only functional advantage is that it was able to transmit the data packets faster, but it carried over all the limitations of the old standard, like half-duplex transmission (only read or write operation at a time) and very short command queue, limiting the number of concurrent requests. All this was naturally limits the highly parallel nature of the NAND memory, but for the most users it will be good enough for many more years.

[@waldolemmer]

*queue, not cue

[@pandemicneetbux2110]

Yeah I think that as it stands we'd probably end up having some kind of revolution or at least change like in the way PCI went to PCIexpress but then changes something fundamental about it because of the way lane usage works, also because the way the NAND controller works today making for instance lots of small files take longer than big chunks of data.

[@s.i.m.c.a]

parallel nature of the NAND memory could be utilized only in servers, while in desktop/lab environments processes are mostly linear. But even so, that's why RAID exists, which soften this only read or only write limitations. And honestly - i see no difference in my day2day usage of m.2 vs ssd. m.2 in overall is faster only while cache is not filled up

[@jensschroder8214]

SATA has two modes. One is PATA emulation and the other is faster SATA mode.

[@Laptop_Dev]

As a humble laptop SWD, I have to say that NVME is very much worth the slight increase in cost.

[@diyi75]

Been awhile since a video hit 100% for me. I think SATA is one of those standards that has earned a permanent place in computing. It links legacy with constant future upgrades. My main laptop came with one 500gb m. 2 nvme stick, one empty m. 2 slot AND a 2.5 SATA bay😁. I slapped another 500gb nvme stick and a 1tb 2.5 in that sucker. I now can store everything from three previous household computer onto one laptop, keeping everything nice and separated 😌. Sometimes, it's just the simple things...

[@rjhornsby]

SATA was around long before SSD went mass market. Solid state didn’t kill IDE/PATA. Serial is cheaper, smaller, and less complex than parallel links. Bus timing is easier to deal with, so optimizing for speed is easier. I’ve become the “back in my day” old guy on the internet. Thanks for that, TechQuickie.

[@aelaan12]

SATA still has a place, think about NAS and 100Gb network speeds. One SATA SSD still outperforms this but if you spin them up in a raid 10 the fun is endless. 4Tb SATA SSD is fast (enough), has no moving parts and has a good price point.

[@TheAyanamiRei]

Honestly I'm seeing that even up to 1TB SATA and NVME are pretty similar in price on Amazon. It's only once you get to 2TB that you begin to see a big price hike. I actually had no idea it had even become THAT cheap!!

[@samiraperi467]

One SATA SSD sure as hell won't saturate a 100Gb link (which doesn't really exist in homes anyway), because SATA is max 5Gb/s, without considering protocol overhead. But yeah, SATA is good enough for many uses. I have a pile of spinning rust that can saturate a 2.5Gb link and that's good enough. (BTW, you mean 4TB, not 4Tb, and that price point, eeeeeh...)

[@linuxstreamer8910]

i just looked a 2tb hdd is 75% then a nvme ssd

[@uss_04]

Thing is most consumers run single drive, or dual. drive. Even though NAS is a great solution, I personally use it, most consumers will just use Cloud, and the flair factor around NVMe is - big draw. I use SATA SSDs to store my game media, if only not to use up all the m.2 slots on my mobo for my game recordings

[@lenOwOo]

Still have place indeed, like in my pc. .

[@andre_renard]

The section on PCIe lanes misses an important detail. On a lot of consumer CPUs there is 16x for the GPU, 4x for the first NVMe slot, and then any other NVMe slots are taken off the chipset. Since the chipset handles SATA and the extra lanes for the extra NVMe drives, the bandwidth there is limited to either the interconnect speed (SATA or NVMe), or the chipset to CPU link. However, generally unless you are connecting NVMe via PCIe riser cards, adding more NVMe directly to your motherboard generally doesn't interfere with your GPU speeds. Of course exceptions apply, and check the manual, but in most of the time you don't need to worry about filling up your motherboard's NVMe slots.

[@Starfals]

SATA is great and i love it. How else will I add a ton of storage? The 2 or 3 slots of M.2? Lol. Most SSDs are 2TB, so that makes it 4 or 6. 4 TBin 2022? Nah, too low. This is where SATA comes in. You get usually 8 of those babies Thats plenty of space, and the speed is more than enough too.

[@aldayel98]

Watching the iFixit ad was so weird... I've been used to Jay's monster truck iFixit ad for so long, that casually saying Minnow and Moray just sounds, off. NGL, got me tripped out.

[@jeschinstad]

If you need lots of storage, but not much concurrent transfer, you can also use a sata splitter to get five ports per connection. For a personal video archive, for instance, you will often have more need for storage than throughput.

[@Tecnoc22]

Unless installing in an nvme drive in a pcie 5.0 slot they generally will not reduce pcie lanes to the gpu. Usually the extra m.2 slots are routed through the chipset just like sata drives. I feel like the writer of this video might not have the strongest grasp of the typical pcie functionality of most motherboards.

[@THU31]

Yeah, this is some pretty serious misinformation that should be corrected by them. While technically manufacturers could connect all M.2 slots to the CPU, specifications exist to prevent that. The only way to reduce the number of lanes for the GPU is to plug a device into the second x16 slot, assuming the motherboard and chipset support lane splitting. SATA is pretty obsolete for SSDs, there is no real reason to buy them if your mobo has an NVMe slot. But I doubt the standard will ever die, because hard drives and optical drives will continue to exist. SATA connectors utilize bandwidth from PCI-E lanes in the chipset anyway, so the support will always be there.

[@Tecnoc22]

@Mr Pais That is true, but kind of irrelevant if the gpu is installed in the pcie 5.0 capable slot anyway like it should be. For example if you get one of the Asus Z690 motherboards that support it installing an ssd in the 5.0 capable m.2 and a gpu in the 5.0x16 slot is going to result in your gpu running at 4.0x8. I would consider this less than ideal, but it is necessary because intel 12th gen only supports 16 pcie 5.0 lanes.

[@gamagama69]

yeah uh shouldn't they know better? You can't really reallocate cpu lanes like they described i thought

[@IIGrayfoxII]

@@THU31 They focus too much on adding some stupid joke rather than refining the script.

[@angelbastista2835]

Yea this is by far one of the most misinformed videos

[@JeffDeLamater]

"NVME drives have to be screwed down" Se we are just going to ignore the 4 screws that SATA drives use? And let's not forget the artform that was rolling PATA cables into tubes and the origami like folding that was needed to organize those things. PATA was slower and harder to work with, but with appropriate time and care, could be cable managed quiet eloquently.

[@thestig007]

Don't look at me using double sided tape to mount my SSDs!

[@TalesOfWar]

If it's an SSD you can just let it roam free lol. A single screw is more than enough, or double sided tape. Some cases have those little sled things that clip in and use a single thumb screw to hold the sled itself in place.

[@TheTruthDragonNJ09]

"Se we are just going to ignore the 4 screws that SATA drives use?" If you have a good PC case, you'd have a toolless HDD/SSD drive caddy for it.

[@samiraperi467]

Those SATA drive screws aren't absolutely necessary. I have 2 PCs, with ...14 drives total. Out of those, 3 are NVMe, which leaves 11 SATA drives. Both mobos support hotplug, and *two* drives aren't in a toolless slot.

[@frankg7412]

@Mr Pais 2 PCs

[@ChristopherBurtraw]

I was an early adopter of PCI-E SSD (it was an actual PCIE card called a RevoDrive by OCZ). The speeds were incredible for OS/primary drive use, even moreso than the SATA SSDs I had tried up to that point. I'm happy to see that boot drives are now commonly PCI-E powered via NVME and attached without using a proper PCIE slot (even if it uses lanes). But IMO, there is no reason to use more than one NVME. Additonal storeage shoud be via SATA, either SSD for fast secondary access or mechanical hard drives for large media files, backups, etc.

[@RANDOMNATION907]

My basic, budget B450 mobo has 2 M.2 slots and 4 SATA plugs. (Asrock B450m Pro4) If I put an NVMe M.2 in the first M.2 slot, the second is limited to a SATA only M.2 stick, it _has_ to be an "M + B key" stick or it won't be recognized, also I lose one SATA plug. Also, If I put an NVMe M.2 in the first slot, My PCIe slot (gpu slot) is reduced to x8 configuration. If I put an NVMe M.2 only into the second slot, it runs at x2 speed and I lose 2 SATA plugs but, my PCIe slot runs at the full x16 lanes. By comparison, 2.5" and 3.5" SATA drives just work. No penalties to system performance, no configurations to remember. Just easy, reliable functionality. I am a very budget minded pc user, and I really have no actual _need_ for NVMe speeds. So, for me, I don't care if M.2 drives reach price parity with SATA SSDs. What I want is for SATA SSDs to become as low cost as HDDs are now. I think they should make 3.5" x 12mm thick SSDs with 2TB-ish capacity using cheaper, less dense storage chips. Instead of a single 1GB or two 512MB chips, they could use cheaper 128-256MB chips and have room for a lot of them. I'm sure it's more complicated than that but, hey. Just my 2¢

[@justsomeperson5110]

It mostly comes down to capacity. If you need capacity, NVMe is just not the way to go as you can't just cram a bunch in there, and if you can and do, you're paying for it badly in PCIe lanes. Though, honestly, given the form factor, I remain kind of surprised that 2.5" SATA drives don't offer more capacity than they do. They have plenty more space for chips than M.2. Not sure why no one in the industry uses that to offer larger capacity drives. I do however wonder when an NVMe over cable standard is going to become common in desktop PCs. Building a RAID array out of M.2 sticks ... kind of weird. LOL Then again, the whole "workstation" concept seems to be eroding. Which kind of sucks, honestly. How are we supposed to get work done?

[@AmartharDrakestone]

Kingston and Samsung make 8TB 2.5" SSDs from what I know. Is that not big enough for you?

[@bgezal]

2.5" SATA SSD's are all empty boxes except a small PCB in the corner. It's just for mounting compatibility. In the 90's there were cheap secondary storage HDD's that were 5.25" with a slower spin rate. I guess the chip shortage has killed the cheap storage market.

[@RyanTosh]

On the enterprise side of things there are 7.68 TB SAS SSDs

[@djdjukic]

it's not eroding what are you talking about

[@hillppari]

dont mix nvme and m.2 theres 2.5" nvme drives

[@Kiyometa]

I think it might be good to add a sentence or two about how PCIe lanes are split. Since it is less likely to affect your GPU PCIe Lanes if your motherboard layout has all but the top M.2 Slot run to the motherboard chipset rather then taking on more direct PCIe lanes. This may change if you are adding a PCIe addin card with M.2 Slots, but even then, only if the PCIe slot runs direct to the CPU and not to the MB Chipset first.

[@Lucian_Andries]

It's not the SATA that is obsolete, it's the SATA SSDs that are obsolete! SATA 3 has a huge bandwidth, yet SSDs can't even do a 500MB/s Read and Write, without going under 100MB/s after a few seconds. We need better SSDs!

[@Lucian_Andries]

@@pistolfied But they are the only with high capacity........ :( Don't worry, my OS is on an nvme. I was just saying that SATA is not the problem! Also, do other SSDs have a constant of 500MB/s read and write? NO!!!! All of them are shit!! SATA 3 has a bandwidth of 6 Gigabits per second, that means 750 Megabytes per second. And no SSD ever had a constant writing speed of 300MB/s, even being the only SATA SSD in the PC.

[@Chris.Brisson]

Let me tell ya about "the good old days". My first hard drive was an Atari 30 megabyte behemoth (that's right, I said "megabyte"), that set me back a cool $600.

[@video99couk]

Wow, 30MB, the luxury of it. Mine was a 20MB Seagate ST-225.

[@dannis8552]

8 SATA slots on my old warhorse. Only 3 M2s/6 SATA on the new machine I haven't built yet. Having bought 30tb of storage in the last 12 months it's clear that when the cost of the equivalent amount of storage in M2s vs SATA would be almost 3 times the price the decision is made.

[@TigerTT]

SATA is immortal because the ports save way more space.

[@RadioactiveBlueberry]

with cable + 2.5" drive enclosure, huh?

[@PACKTdotSPACE]

@@RadioactiveBlueberry obviously they mean motherboard space which is kind of harder to come by then the entirety of the space inside the case

[@randomcomment9992]

Not everyone have tons of SSD. And even those who have more than one SSD, their main SSD is also an M.2, but those who have only one SSD it's almost sure they have the M.2 version. If less factory manufacturing the SATA version, because everyone use the M.2 mainly, it will be more expensive. If the much faster SSD will be much cheaper too after some years, than the SATA can lose even more reason to exists, and motherboard manufacturers will just slowly decrease the amount of SATA ports, just like they did with the IDE ports when SATA become more popular.

[@TorutheRedFox]

it'll probably live on in server environments like SCSI, which is long dead in the consumer space

[@Phynellius]

I mean when it comes to most AM4 setups the 4 lanes for your second NVME tend to go through the chipset without forcing your GPU down to x8. I guess the downside is it's sharing those lanes with a bunch of other hardware so there could be bottlenecks when utilizing the chipset with multiple devices

[@pixels_per_inch]

It's the same for LGA1700 as well

[@cszolee7979]

In my case it is an actual problem - having a x4 and x2 nvme drive in a B450 motherboard limits me to 2 sata drives even though there are 6 sata connectors. But not enough PCIE lanes (when using a discrete x16 GPU).

[@JavoCover]

@@cszolee7979 We b450 are stuck with pci-e 3.0, with the newer 5.0 we could have the same lanes and the gpu to x8 and still have more bandwith.

[@pandemicneetbux2110]

@@cszolee7979 It's been nearly two weeks and why is this guy not thumbed up yet THIS is what I mean. That's why I wrote those textwalls. Because as you can clearly see, this guy is having a probably more budget oriented b450 board, and he's losing a bunch of SATA. If you treat your PC like a cheap gaming console and you're a zoomer you won't realize why this is such a massive deal until later when you're now stuck with insanely slow external drives through USB ports and you basically can't do anything with your machine because all those PCIe lanes are taken up by a few storage devices. NVMe only makes sense to me outside boot drives as a thing for video editors, because they're exceptionally fast for transferring huge multigigabyte files (like video editing) where the time it takes to do that possibly instantly actually matters (like video editor for a job, like the guys who work at LTT). Because of the fact it's still so painfully slow for moving large batches of small files, and because of the big difference in top speed between it and everything else (USB drive, old hard drives), its advantages all are removed outside those professional/prosumer contexts. It's very much like getting a Threadripper to play games on. It's completely phenomenal to the professional working at LTT, but a Threadripper actually sucks for playing games on compared to a say 5900x or 12700k or whatever for a fraction of the cost. A Threadripper and a bunch of NVMe drives is a dream for video editors and rendering stuff, but it's a really bad idea for the gamer or average family to get one. Right tool for the right job, and in NVMe's case, it's a pretty horrible thing for a budget build gamer for anything beyond the boot drive in the same way that getting an extra couple mSATA slots on an old Ivy Bridge machine is not worth the loss of your SATA ports.

[@fyremoon]

SATA needs to be replaced by SAS because SATA is one of the three protocols that SAS supports, another is SAS expanders so you can daisy chain a lot more drives off one computer and the SAS controller often does hardware RAID so you don't have to overload your CPU with software RAID.

[@Darkk6969]

SAS is really the way to go. Now you have 12gb SAS.

[@Generalkidd]

Yeah agreed, it'd be amazing if we could start getting SAS controllers integrated into motherboard chipsets. SAS has supported 12 Gb/s speeds for awhile now and 22.5 Gb/s is coming soon too which would make SAS SSDs pretty competitive with gen3 NVME SSDs. SAS has all the physical benefits of SATA connectors but without the same limitations of the protocol.

[@vylbird8014]

SAS costs a lot more. Though I do not know why... the chips are not much more sophisticated. Maybe just because no-one makes 'consumer' SAS interfaces?

[@Generalkidd]

@@vylbird8014 Yeah you're probably right about the lack of consumer SAS drives and controllers causing them to be more expensive. I bet if they were mass market consumer drives they'd be comparable in price to SATA drives. Interestingly though, if you shop for used high capacity HDDs on ebay, the SAS drives tend to be cheaper than used SATA drives of the same capacity. I guess on the second hand market SAS is in lower demand and therefore priced lower cause less people are able to use it.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

None of that's true though. There is a reason why we stopped daisy-chaining things, the issues of reliability and trying to use the same cables for multiple devices are just not worth it. Presumably, the issue of terminators and jumper controlled IDs isn't what it was back in the '90s, but it's a whole mess of problems that we finally got past. Similarly, hardware RAID is a bad idea now that computers are fast enough, with enough memory, to not need them. They existed in part because most computers didn't have enough ports, and in part because the computers legitimately needed help processing the data. Neither of these is likely to be the case now. My computer has 8 SATA ports and I could add a whole mess more of them with expansion cards. No daisy-chaining required. What's more, good luck getting your data out of a RAID if the controller is the thing that dies and you don't have a compatible replacement card available. It has been quite a few years since FreeBSD started recommending their software RAID over hardware and I've had no issues at all in all that time. I've had to replace many disks and a few times I had to take the array to a different computer to deal with, none of that would be possible with one of the puny hardware controllers that are typically affordable to home users.

[@Durayne]

For my last two PC builds (last one end of 2019) I used only NVME Drives. Not only because of the top end of speed, but because you are ending up saving a lot of cables and thus cable management. And I usually dont tend to store too much data, so currently 1TB is plenty.

[@sylvie_v2939]

3:25 Huh? Most motherboards allocate anything beyond one or two (on high end, multi-GPU boards) PCIe NVMe connections to PCH channel (or "IO" in AMD nomenclature?), not the CPU channel, which caps there speed lower and limits bandwidth, but outside of raw throughput probably won't make much of a difference for most real world applications besides the OS because you run into other limitations or you're only using one or two drives through the PCH bus simultaneously anyway. PCH also handles SATA and IO and such through the chipset. PCIe (Thunderbolt, PCIe NVMe SSDs or WiFi modules, and GPUs [or AI accelerators, physics, APUs, or whatever) also have security implications having a more direct route to the CPU than, say, a USB host controller.

[@MaskOfCinder]

SATA is still good for high storage SSD options. I don’t have any Hard Drives in my rig, just NVME and SATA.

[@RickMyBalls]

sata what

[@YounesLayachi]

SATA and NVMe aren't comparable types of technology. It's like saying you have a USB and a Flash drive

[@assasin377]

yeah but hdd's are way cheaper per GB, and if you want to store images, videos or documents you won't really need the high speeds from ssd's

[@Al-no2fm]

An HDD is still optimal choice for many things like recording/constant write operations. Obviously write speed can be an issue

[@Doug87969]

HDD good for long storage or rare data

[@WarPigstheHun]

TLC nand flash (with dram) is acceptable too for long storage: 10-15 year lifespan est. if you don't rewrite too much.

[@KillFrenzy96]

Don't underestimate how much you can write to a decent SSD. For example, a Samsung 870 EVO 4TB has a 2400 TBW rating. If you write 100GB a day, it will take over 65 years to exceed the TBW rating.

[@alienc]

Real talk : HDD good for memes, miscellaneous downloads and adult content

[@一本のうんち]

I have 4x8tb HDDs in raid 0. I'm getting nearly 800MB/s speed. That's faster than SATA ssd.

[@frankg7412]

Got 5 M.2 Slots on a Z690 Motherboard so nothing from M.2 Slots is shared with the GPU lanes, only one SSD can be connected to the CPU directly. The rest is going over the chipset and one M.2 slot is even shared with a SATA Port. So it's 5M.2/5 SATA or 4 M.2/6 SATA. But in no case Alder Lake takes lanes from the GPU when putting in M.2 drives except for an expansion card in a PCIe slot.

[@alexatkin]

Exactly, that was a very weird thing for them to claim as I've never seen a single motherboard steal PCIe lanes from the GPU on their M.2 slots. The only time that happens is if you are adding more M.2 drives using the second or third PCIe x16 slot, and its likely to become less of an issue going forwards as I believe newer CPUs are going to have more lanes. However, the physical space for M.2 slots on the motherboard is an issue, so you may need PCIe adapters for that - whereas SATA drives can be elsewhere in the case and their connectors don't take up much space on the motherboard.

[@emu071981]

@@alexatkin If I were to put a M.2 add-in card into my second x16 slot then my GPU would be sitting with x8 lanes instead of the x16 lanes that it has now.

[@frankg7412]

@@emu071981 But they didn’t mention an add on card, if you put something in another PCIe slots it’s obvious that lanes will be taken away from the first slot because you added another card.

[@oginer]

The B550 Aorus Master and some others high end B550 boards do it. It's the only way to have more than one Gen4 NVMe drives with a B550 chipset. This also frees chipset bandwidth so they can add more high speed USB connectors and all 6 SATA connectors can be used at the same time as all 3 M.2 connectors.

[@jimmyl82104]

Another main reason SATA drives are still being used is because of 'older' hardware. M.2 didn't really start showing up on computers until around 2015-2016, and computers from before then aren't outdated. If you're upgrading a computer from around 2014, you're gonna need a SATA SSD.

[@TrepidDestiny]

I utilize 1 2TB NvME, and then a 2TB SATA SSD in my system. The NvME is my OS/ core applications, and games I want that zoom zoom loading times for. Everything else on the slower SATA SSD. Doesn't interfere with my PCIe lanes, but I still have great R/W speeds.

[@nathanddrews]

It's a shame that SATA Express was killed off so early. We could have seen standard 3.5 and 2.5 form factor drives take advantage of that 16Gbps connection.

[@TalesOfWar]

I think Thunderbolt kind of killed that off, not that Thunderbolt has such a massive market share in the grand scheme of things, but the benefits of SATA Express were basically superseded with everything Thunderbolt let you do.

[@THU31]

I am glad I have never even seen a motherboard with that gigantic connector. There was nothing good about SATA Express. Anything that gets rid of cables is a huge win, and NVMe hit gold in that regard.

[@nathanddrews]

@@TalesOfWar Thunderbolt was never really an internal connector, so it's not really related. You're thinking of eSATA, I think.

[@nathanddrews]

@@THU31 Sure, the connector was kind of clunk in the beginning, but you could fit a lot more SATA Express connectors on a motherboard than M.2 slots. You also wouldn't need as many PCIe lanes dedicated to it.

[@TalesOfWar]

@@nathanddrews Ah, Indeed I am. My mistake!

[@stevenneaves8079]

That stay in your lane line was gold 😂

[@teardowndan5364]

SATA is overdue for a refresh or replacement. I 100% agree with SATA's usefulness for storage uses (I have 1x NVMe + 2xSATA SSD + 2x HDDs in my PC) but 6Gbps is pretty crappy when NAND is capable of achieving almost 10X that much per package. There needs to be a 10-16Gbps successor.

[@chronometer9931]

You can put 5 pcie ssds in your system, just use adapters

[@teardowndan5364]

@@chronometer9931 My board only has one spare usable 3.0x4 slot and I think it shares HSIO lanes with two SATA ports.

[@IIGrayfoxII]

No point in making a new drive protocol for HDDs The transition from PATA to SATA was not always the best when it came to software. XP did not have support for SATA HDDs. When you were installing XP, you had to press F3 during load, insert a floppy disk containing the controller drivers. Now yes we can load drivers at the HDD screen of windows with a USB, but still how many people know how to do this? Very Few And while HDDs are not dying, no real point in making a new protocol for them since their use is not as great as it use to be. This means seagate, WD, Toshiba wont really bother using this new connector that comes with the new protocol.

[@dycedargselderbrother5353]

There is a solution, kind of. SAS-3 SSDs are 12 Gbps, but you won't find value versions of those. One of the problems is that consumer motherboards are PCIe starved as it is, and SATA ports are already disabled when using multiple NVMe slots. I think if you doubled SATA speed you'd end up seeing a reduction of ports from 4-8 down to 2-4, with 3 being uncommon and 4 being vanishingly rare. It's actually probably a blessing in disguise that SATA is as slow as it is since it allows connecting more drives than you'd be able to with faster alternatives.

[@williampaabreeves]

they need to make SATA 4 using some of the aspects of fast SAS, given that SAS supports SATA it should be simple enough to make a 12Gbit or even 24Gbit version like SAS has

[@Spike-uc5fl]

I got 3 8TB 3.5" drives for about 80 bucks each. Its running at 5,400rpm but for storage that doesnt matter. The only thing matter is that new cases are getting rid of 3.5" bay. I manage to find one with 3 bays and tons of ssd bays. It fit my needs.

[@vpsjdon]

Weird seeing this on my feed since I literally JUST bought a SATA SSD and a caddy to increase my disk space by removing the DVD drive. It's working perfectly fine

[@xorkatoss]

1:36 wait what?? In Canada isn't SATA and NVMe SSDs similarly priced?? I checked my local shop and 480GB SSDs and NVMe is actually 2-3 euros cheaper then SATA LOL! it's also pretty amazing how cheaply HDDs have become nowadays, I am soon planning to swap my 2x1TB HDDs with one 4TB WD Blue and it's only 90 euros like wtf!

[@tpf92]

I think it depends on the size of the drives, in the US, up to 1TB they're within a few dollars of each other, but for 2TB+ the difference starts showing, although oddly enough 4TB NVME and SATA drives are priced fairly similarly, although past 4TB there's a noticeable difference again. Also, some of the newer HDDs don't seem to be made to last, had a 4TB HDD die after I think a year and a half of use (It was an SMR HDD, basically it's "shingled" as in stacked on top of each other, so whenever it writes, it has to copy/overwrite other data, I'm pretty sure this is why newer HDDs, especially larger HDDs are so cheap), probably because it was more meant for just long-term storage rather than daily usage.

[@pham3383]

sucks to live outside NA,samsung 870 qvo sata is 20$ cheaper than kingston nvme 1tb

[@kennysboat4432]

No again because most mother boards have max 2-3 m.2 slots so you can run out of room for drives.

[@Bigdog1787]

Then you ass more with pcie cards one card can have 8 drives then the only limit is how many pcie lanes you got thats not already in use for other stuff.

[@JeffDeLamater]

They may m.2 expansion PCIe cards, so it's not end of the world

[@pixels_per_inch]

3:01 Not really, most motherboards only have one NVMe slot connected directly to the CPU, while the rest is connected to the chipset. With new motherboard chipsets coming with 8 lanes of PCIe 4.0, you could (in theory) have 5 PCIe 3.0 NVMe SSDs running at full speed even when writing or reading simultaneously.

[@phizc]

I think both Raptor Lake (LGA1700) and Zen 4 (AM5) only supports 4 PCIe (equivalent) lanes to the chipset. X690 E has 2 chipsets, but they're daisy chained, not both connected to the CPU.

[@charleshines8523]

I have a loose sitting SATA SSD. No moving parts like a hard drive so nothing to worry about there. It is in a 5 1/4 bay with plenty of room for other 2.5 inch drives if choose to use them

[@transce]

The other nice thing about mech drives if that they generally fail more slowly and predictably, giving you more time to back up and replace them. SSDs are far more likely to insta-fail.

[@surft]

MX500s in particular provide really good performance when it comes to SATA SSDs and they now come in 4TB varieties that much cheaper than NVME of the same size.

[@DualPerformance]

a year later is now the NVMe drives have the same price as sata drives

[@tomhsia4354]

​​​​​​@@DualPerformance Yeah, and we're talking about good PCIe 4.0 NVME drives being the same price as good SATA drives. The 2TB SN850x is somehow cheaper than a 2TB 870 Evo or MX500. The only reason to buy SATA SSDs is if you've filled the slots on your motherboard and don't care about the extra speed of NVME drives.

[@briancarlo5151]

​ too late comment, in my country, 1TB NVME is now cheaper than 1TB SATA SSD hahaha 🤣

[@Wraithdagger]

NVMe SSD - For the newest/largest/most demanding games SATA SSD - For OS and other games 5400 RPM SATA HDD - For everything else; quiet Everything has a purpose.

[@milesfarber]

So THAT'S why people are complaining about windows updates. They're using garbage tier SATA SSD's with no cache!

[@Wraithdagger]

@@milesfarber No? Windows updates are malware. Corrupting your OS and changing settings without permission - nothing to do with the hardware.

[@thestig007]

Imagine not putting your OS on the fastest drive. You're slowing your whole system down bro.

[@milesfarber]

@@Wraithdagger Have you tried not installing malware and blaming windows updates?

[@nepnep6894]

@@thestig007 This having your page or swap file on a sata ssd and nvme ssd is a night and day difference in day to day use especially with 16GB of ram or less.

[@nyftn]

the price difference is almost 0 for smaller capacity but high capacity drives are still very far from each other in terms of price.

[@Yggdrasill8]

Should I replace my sixteen 16TB internal HDD's (1/4 Petabyte) with Nvme's?

[@nyftn]

@@Yggdrasill8 that's what i mean lol . the nvme is like 10 times more expensive in that scenario .

[@nyftn]

and do you need more speed ? that would be the deciding factor i think to spend the extra . for home use i can't imagine you'd need the speed . but i can't smell what you do for a living lol

[@Zack_Wester]

yep as a Primary storedge the SATA is done. but as a secondary storedge it still useful. especially if you got a lot of large file that does not requires instant access. music, movies, docs (no point in putting that on a SSD by the way the gain is insignificant in most cases).

[@lander77477]

2:42 LOL i have an M.2 drive in a SATA adapter case sitting loosely inside my case below my hard drive cage of older hard drives, thank you for not ratting me out to the PC building police!

[@agentcrm]

The only thing that will replace SATA is SAS. It's an existing standard that scales well, has way more bandwidth and is compatible with SATA drives.

[@agentcrm]

@Aaron Moody Until SSD's started getting faster, it wasn't really a bottleneck.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

Some higher end motherboards have up to 4 NVMe slots for use with the right CPU in addition to the chipset features. Still not a lot considering you can have so much more with SATA. We haven't seen much improvement with SATA in years - mainly because it is good enough for most needs. Eventually, we'll need a revision in order to keep up - even USB is faster now.

[@WarriorsPhoto]

Great video and I agree with you all. SATA has a purpose still. I can see the difference when working with larger formats for an nVme drive. But for most of my work SATA SSD does the trick.

[@miragegaming984]

Well by that logic, that you can't notice between nvme and sata, at one point in time a fast hard drive was just about as "fast" as the modern sata ssd. But over time more programs asked for more disk read / write. at some point that will be true of sata as well and nvme vs sata ssd will become noticeable to the average user.

[@fastfiddler1625]

It's really strange how these work. But definitely (even in 2023) don't buy one for an upgrade to gaming if you already have a SATA and aren't out of space. I've been using CrystalDiskMark to test my drives. What's funny is my Samsung USB-C SSD tests at 882 MB/s, my internal SATA at 550, and my new NVME gen4 (on a gen3 mobo) at 3522. DCS world, a combat flight sim with huge loading times saw zero benefit from the NVME. I copied it from my USB-C SSD to my new NVME. I timed from double click to when it got to the home screen, 2 minutes 31 seconds exactly... for both. Exactly the same time. This is the case with other games like Starfield and Baldur's Gate 3. Maybe games that rely more on a data stream will see a benefit. But there are plenty of articles out there that say unequivocally that you should buy an NVME for gaming over SSD, and I just don't see it.

[@sezwo5774]

Great info, thanks. Most articles on the internet is just hype to make people buy more sh*t to make the merchants sell more new sh*t and profit.

[@45eno]

500gb NVME boot 2000gb NVMe Game storage 4000gb HDD less priority game storage HDD although slow and dangerous behind the wheel , can still serve a purpose in life.

[@angry_wizard]

Yeah I'm rocking a 1tb nvme boot drive, a 1tb nvme game drive, a 2tb SSD secondary game drive and 6tb and 8tb bulk storage drives. HDDs and SATA aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

[@45eno]

@@angry_wizard too bad NVMe game drives have basically ran no faster than SSD. Finally with Direct Storage we are ALMOST to where our super fast NVMe actually load games faster than standard sata SSD. NVMe has basically been less cables and space in a PC for people using them as game storage. Hopefully Direct Storage takes off with developers and our 7400mb read speed actually gets utilized. 🙄

[@anselrod5699]

As long as I can remember (and am old) the battle between parallel vs. serial has been going on. Other battles like centralized processing vs. distributed processing, hard wired vs. wireless are similar battles that changed back and forth as technology improved. First you start with serial sending one bit at a time (RS232). Then you go to parallel to send more bits at the same time. Then you improve technology so the larger parallel cable can be replaced by a smaller serial cable that transfer as much or more data as the previous parallel technology but serially. Then we go back to parallel interface with the existing fast serial technology so it's even more bandwidth. So the reason we went from PATA to SATA (BTW back when PATA was popular is was referred to as IDE, remember master slave jumper?) was because technology improved. And it continues now with NVMe, but I dare say am not familiar with the interface specs yet.

[@phizc]

NVMe is arguably parallel since it usually runs on 4 PCI Express lanes. It can run on a single lane too though.

[@charleshines1553]

I remember having PCs with those ribbon cables. They were big and ugly and the connector would come loose after a few insertions or one of the dang pins would bend. Bending pins on those old drives was easy to do accidentally.

[@hubertnnn]

What were you doing with those poor drives. I don't remember needing to disconnect them, like never, unless you had to replace the drive after 5 years or so.

[@Donnerwamp]

I still remember making my own "airflow optimised" cables and wrapping them with colorful tape. Oh the joys of the janky past...

[@JeffDeLamater]

The pins on the PATA connectors were more robust than the flimsy plastic used on SATA connectors. I never once bent a PATA pin, but I've definitely ruined some SATA cables.

[@TalesOfWar]

I remember having to set the jumpers to tell it which drives were the master and slaves too. I'm glad such things (and the terminology) are no longer a thing in common use.

[@ArunG273]

Who the heck connects and disconnects them often and make them fail? Sata is not your portable storage solution lol.

[@LocalDiscordCatgirl]

For pure storage space, having something like a 7200rpm 4+TB hard drive is still faaaaaar cheaper than the same capacity in solid state. For stuff you don’t need silent operation for, or dont need to load lightning quickly, hard drive is king.

[@Cyba_IT]

Great vid Riley but as many people have said, mechanical drives moved to Sata way before SSD's came out.

[@22oreos]

No, I still prefer it for bulk storage drives thanks to the ridiculous compatibility advantages compared to NVMe M.2. NVMe M.2 for boot drives though, any day.

[@Argedis]

SATA drives are also much easier to remove/swap compared to NVME where you might have to remove the GPU/CPU Cooler just to access.

[@joshhardin666]

the cost of nvme (particularly pcie3 nvme right now), is roughly the same cost of sata ssd's at reasonably large sizes (1 or 2 tb). if you're in the market for an ssd, just buy the nvme ssd (that's roughly 7+ times faster and arguably slightly more reliable).

[@naufalap]

yeah I was trying to build a new pc with nvme/ssd boot drive+ssd/hdd storage mindset, but when I look at the prices it surprised me how 1 tb nvme is the best bang for the buck I could get

[@madkills10]

​@@naufalap same, I recently upgraded my storage with a $200~ 2TB NVME. That pricing was unthinkable when I had built this system only 4 years ago in 2018

[@MidnightToker24]

I'll believe it once I can't get my hands on zip discs anymore.

[@dagg497]

HAH! I'm running IDE 133 adapterd into my SATA 3 ports on the mobo to use a 15years old Spinny Drive of 500Gb, Use It for vloated Steam games. Also have SATA 6 m3chanical drives in my NAS. I don't know this talk about SSD or NVME being cheap? I still think 2.5Inch SSD are expensive here in Sweden.

[@sezwo5774]

Regarding sata ssd's, would there be any benefit to having a Sata III M.2 ssd connected through an adapter to the PCIE Gen 3 slot on the motherboard instead of having a Sata III ssd connected through the regular sata port/connector? Would the PCIE connection offer less latency than the sata port connect? There seem to be hundreds of videos on youtube and thousands of articles on the internet about Sata SSD's but I have not come across any addressing this question, not in the slightest.

[@RuruFIN]

I still use a 840 Pro 256GB as the main drive on my modern-ish (R5 3600, 32GB, 6700 XT) gaming rig. :D

[@fra93ilgrande]

Amazing, I still have and use even a 830 😂 👍🏻 🔝 in my PS3 lol

[@TalesOfWar]

The price difference between NVME and SATA is already small enough thant unless you just don't actually have an M.2 slot it'll work in, it's really not worth saving that tiny amount given the massive performance difference.

[@KabukeeJo]

SATA SSD: Great for the boot drive. NVME: Prefect for those giant heavy loading games like GTA5. SATA HDD: When you need tons of storage space for all your uncensored media and a 2TB NVME/SSD drive just won't do.

[@mrbobgamingmemes9558]

For me. nvme for boot drive and productivity software and sata ssd for games .

[@davidmccarthy6390]

SATA will always have a place in the mass storage space for the foreseeable future where capacity is more important than speed. Mechanical HDD's are rarely used for boot drives today, but are very often used for mass storage (6,8,10 TB+ drives) where the cost per Gb is FAR lower than an SSD and speed is not a determining factor, such as large media libraries, system backups, etc.

[@chknman3877]

here in saudi arabia, a good sata ssd with dram is more expensive than an nvme with the same storage

[@N7-alpha]

Sata ssd still a great option for faster boot than a spinning hd any day and a good faster large fast storage device.

[@dosgos]

SATA may boot faster than NVMe on some systems. Most home users are not going to notice any difference, ever.

[@yasuh4550]

Sata would make sense to stick around since it might just be easier to expand storage. Well, pcie expansion cards for nvme ssd's exist I guess

[@yumri4]

As it is inside of the ATX spec though like IDE and PATA it is in the recommended part but it is in the required parts for all Intel and AMD chipsets I do not think it will be going away any time soon.

[@Charlesb88]

One think to remember that will keep Sata SSD’s around for a while longer is the retro-PC/recycled PC market where people take old PC’s with only SATA ports and no M.2 slots and replace the Spinning HD with a SSD to bring new life to the old PC. You can also use old external USB 3 SATA hard drive enclosures with a new SATA SSD for a fast durable external SSD that can take being carried around plugged into a laptop better then external laptop USB HD. Also, some people still need to access optical media and if they prefer an internal optical drive, having SATA is a must.

[@godfist314]

I had no idea USB 3 SATA hard drive enclosures existed. This makes using a sata ssd SO much easier, thank you!!

[@Charlesb88]

@@godfist314 For under $20, you can get a M.2 NVMe SSD enclosure that will turn you SSD into a very large thumb drive with USB 3.1 Type C and USB Type A connectors on each end, for example. And SSDs can take a lot more banging around then a external spinning drive making them good laptop use, so long as you're willing to pay the difference per megabyte in price which currently is much closer then it used to be.

[@op3l]

Sata SSD are still great for storage drives, and the difference in load times versus m.2 is only a few seconds. So my next build is basically 1 m.2 for boot/games, and rest will be my current crop of SSD that will be moved to light storage duty.

[@escapetherace1943]

HDDs are still king for value to dollar storage. Yes they have significantly less writing life, but their reading life still beats even the best ssds. You can use HDDs for multiple decades especially if it is just reading where SSDs are not there (yet)

[@WhirlwindHeatAndFlash]

yeaaaa the "plug and play" ease of access for SATA is definitely a huge plus for me As someone who uses multiple OS on multiple drives switching between them looks like a huge pain with nvme

[@stemageer]

Nvme is more efficient in thin and light laptops

[@JordanPlayz158]

One small inaccuracy, NVME on cheap laptops isn't necessarily good, got my father a lenovo and the nvme they put on it is slower than my 5400 rpm hdd, nvme is just the interface, it doesn't dictate the chips/hardware will be good quality, and yes windows is bad, but windows shouldn't be that bad to constantly and easily max out an nvme

[@dosgos]

We need to research how lanes are allocated on laptops, which is not always so transparent.

[@ULTRAWIDE.]

SATA SSD's are still a great price to performance storage option. The speed is still pretty good.

[@-morrow]

sata is totally sufficient for nearly all daily use cases.

[@kubotite9168]

strangely in my country nvme cost the same as sata..

[@sadatislamkhan3707]

@@kubotite9168 same here buddy in Bangladesh.

[@m8x425]

I know a kid that is looking to fully upgrade his x370 PC around Black Friday. I talked him out of going for a SATA SSD in favor of an NVMe SSD. He was interested in the 2tb 870 EVO, but I showed him the price of the 2tb 970 EVO which is only $10 more. SATA SSD's are still viable and HDD's are still viable for anyone that needs a massive amount of storage.

[@rvyne24]

YES, same honestly I've recycled my SSD used it for my main OS drive, I thought it was temporarily but its almost 6 months never bother replacing it with NVME. The other NVME right now I'm using separately for gaming drive never switch it coz its 2TB.. while SSD with 500gb is more than enough for my OS. Booting is not really an issue its fast enough for my liking.

[@Dadodaw]

Nvme has already reached cost parity with SATA drives. During the last Prime Day sale I was hoping to get a cheap 2 TB 2.5inch SATA drive for game storage and to my surprise the m.2 Nvme drives were actually slightly cheaper, but having already used both the m.2 slots on my motherboard they weren't an option for me.

[@chronometer9931]

Should have bought a cheap pcie-adapter, you could have had the drive you wanted instead of settling

[@callthatwhatyouwant]

@@chronometer9931 he's not settling unless he moves large files all the time to that drive, plus the SATA SSD doesn't take bandwith away from the GPU

[@Vash12788]

I think what everyone is glossing over that's important is just how much faster NVME is than SATA and why that's important to the future of gaming. PS5 and Xbox Series X have NVME drives with speeds around 5gps, which enables devs to create experiences like the new Ratchet and clank that has nearly instant full world loading times, that isn't possible on PC with SATA drives. Eventually if you're a gamer you're going to need an NVME drive with at least 5gps speeds, faster the better.

[@thetechrealist]

I think he just means that Sata will be better for bulk storage than nvme drives.

[@irneseip2592]

Mrs Sofia is the best, recommending her to all beginners who wants to recover from their losses and gain more like I did through her strategies..

[@johnrichard4643]

Who's this professional everyone is talking about I always see her post on top comment on every KZbin video I watched.

[@johnrichard4643]

I think I'm interested how can I get in touch with Mrs sofia..

[@janeddins3405]

I'm from Germany I used to take loan from the bank for surviver but after trading with expert Mrs sofia she changed my financial status for real

[@janeddins3405]

I'm now a creditor not debtor anymore

[@scottmorrison670]

It's not about watching videos and wasting your time on strategies, I was ignorant doing so. So I decided to try Mrs sofia and ever since then she's has made about $14,000 for on every $5,000 I invested just

[@blackknight50277621]

I cannot live without NVME now as a system builder gumstick in, 1 screw => DONE no cables, no hassle, lightning speed

[@PatrickDAllen1]

I have a ten year old MSI GE 70C and it's literally still kicking ass and taking names even with an old spinny HDD. I just installed Windows 11 on it a few months ago and it still runs fabulous. I ran Crystal Drive Info to get the state of my HDD on it and it's in perfect shape. None of the components are even close to failure. I'll be keeping it until the day it finally blows up (can it get another ten years?!?). I have another laptop now for heavy lifting, but I still use the MSI almost every single day for various tasks.

[@BeeWaifu]

0:12 WOW. SO CHEAP. DEFINITELY.

[@EpikPaprika]

Compared to the past. Yes.

[@racingjets1]

Don't tell me the 1TB SATA SSD I just bought is obsolete now :( (Both my NVME slots are occupied so bought SATA)

[@Dudae_]

It's not

[@racingjets1]

@@Dudae_ haha yep...I wrote this comment right after this video was posted

[@patg108]

nope, sata is still relevant for high capacity storage. Big question is when will they make sata 4.0 or bring SAS to home users on motherboards?

[@chronometer9931]

There is no point in doing either of those things, there is no need for a sata 4

[@brostenen]

We have been using SSD technology in storage, and with PATA. For way more than 10 years, before SATA was put on the market.

[@SuperSZ]

Going from HDD to SATA SSD was like going from Super Nintendo to PS1: absolutly mind blowing. Going from SATA SSD to NVME is like going from PS3 to PS4; it's not THAT much different