Is Shimano 105 Di2 Really That Bad?

[@iancarson8614]

the bottom line is that every rider should be able to anticipate gear changing, especially on the front. most of my races take place in the big ring and changing gear time has no impact on my sufferage or race outcome. we are being sold expensive solutions to problems which don't exist.

[@fradd4045]

and if it shifted like shit you would be the first to complain, i lost because.. i got dropped because...

[@mouwangwang7934]

“Don’t challenge my bottom line, otherwise I have to change my bottom line”, someone said. 😔

[@Knowbody42]

Maybe they should just make groupsets where you only have a rear derailler, and just have a single big ring at the front.

[@Mottleydude1]

You are spot on right and now bike companies are coercing us to buy grossly overpriced e-shifters by not giving us a choice of purchasing comparable mechanical group sets and charging us several thousand dollars more to, as you correctly put it, solve a non-existent problem. In my experience most missed shifts are more often than not a result of lack of focus and timing, not mechanical issues and eshifters won’t save you from that. My method of sprinting is pretty much identical to yours and missed shifts has never been an issue. Nor have I ever been dropped due to a miss shift as with most modern mechanical shifters in proper working order and properly maintained missed shifts is a virtually non-existent problem.

[@Mottleydude1]

@@fradd4045Which quite frankly has never happened to me in over thirty years of riding and racing.

[@Mbetman]

The comparison of the front shifting is very impressive, great review!

[@2Calam]

Yep, that'll do it for me. Ultegra on next bike (still running the first gen dura ace di2 though....just won't die!)

[@db.5811]

I was watching the video thinking well if it’s as good as my old ultegra di2 front shifter then that’s good enough…… saw the new one 😮 “I want it”

[@johnossendorf9979]

It's truly sad that a mechanical 105 option is no longer available ! 105 has always been an excellent low cost high proformance group set, Di2 105 is not low cost !

[@MrDan92700]

Don't worry, the next Tiagra will be the old 105, so no problem.

[@johnossendorf9979]

@@MrDan92700 OK, yeah, I hear you. One thing is for sure, Tiagra will have some big "Group set of thepeople" shoes to fill.

[@Knowbody42]

It needs to be like half price or less

[@johnossendorf9979]

@@Knowbody42 That would be an improvement but even if the price were cut in half, I would still want everything on my bike to not require charging to function ! Aside from lights, although I have thought about getting a dynamo. Maybe the dynamo could be set up to charge the lights and group set. Even so, I'll stay with mechanical. So in the future, I guess it's Tiagra the new group set of the people, for me.

[@philc9305]

You would think they could just reliable the older durace groupset. Granted some would say just buy the old groupset, but I'm having a hard time finding it for sale anywhere, guess they don't make it anymore.

[@williamkeys5701]

I can't think of anything that would prevent one from running an 11-30 Ultegra cassette with the 105 rear derailleur. It's easier to go from a bigger low gear to a smaller low gear on the back after all.

[@viljamip]

I think the derailleur firmware needs to know your cassette size so it can work optimally and Shimano wont let you set it to anything smaller than 11-34. Purely artificial software limitation. Not sure how well it would shift with a 11-30 cassette with the wrong setting though. Hopefully someone tries it out.

[@a1white]

@@viljamip FML, firmware on derailleurs limiting what cassette sizes you can use. Another reason to stay mechanical

[@wickedskillz101]

afaik, the firmware is basically only for fully synchronized shifting, so it can help you find the best gears if you don't want to think about what chainring to be on @@viljamip

[@dominicbritt]

Interesting point - 105 comes with a Hyperglide cassette - easy upgrade is to fit the Hyperglide+ cassette (that comes on the Ultegra) to slicken up the rear shifting.

[@allegrobrio968]

I am strictly a recreational rider, not a racer, and I just bought (early 2024) a bike equipped with 105 Di2. By buying 105 (rather than Ultegra), I applied what I saved to purchase a much better wheelset, and I replaced the 105 11x34 cassette with an Ultegra 11x30 cassette. The 2/3 lb. (300 grams) weight difference between Ultegra and 105 doesn't matter much to me. I'll add that today's 105 Di2 shifts better than Ultegra Di2 from seven years ago (I have a 2017 bike with Ultegra Di2.) Finally, I've had no issues with compatibility of the Ultegra cassette with my 105 drivetrain.

[@ivanta6283]

guessing is a bike from canyon?

[@n22pdf]

Excellent review David.. I’m still a Ultegra mechanical cyclist 🤩👍🚴

[@PedroTD]

Sadly, you forgot one difference - the shifters. 105 has longer battery life Ultegra has the possibility of hard wire, satellite shifters and hidden top button

[@80robs92]

Furthermore, there are additional buttons on top of the Ultegra shifters which are not on 105. So if you want to control your Wahoo or Garmin with the shifters, you need at least Ultegra.

[@bikenbeers]

Very good unbiased review. Not much difference between the two especially for the everyday cyclist. This has helped me decide which option i should take. Thank you.

[@davidarthur]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Yorktimer]

Best, non waffle comparison of both I’ve seen so far. Thank you and well done 👏

[@davidarthur]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@moshet842]

So basically, no difference. The bike industry is slowly becoming full of itself. These prices are atrocious. You can literally get a sweet motorcycle with vastly more parts and significantly more complex mechanical parts for the price of a bike with these groupsets.

[@ulaev]

thank you. I go for sram rival with powermeter for 1300eur

[@sccxvelo]

If I have to go electric on my next bike then GRX di2 is sounding like a better option. Missing one for now is not that big of issue. Odds are cheaper too.

[@1000750]

On my way to the cafe, I need .0001% faster shifts and also to save the weight difference of the donut I'm going to get🤣🤣

[@onehourmusicbc]

idk why but after trying the Ultegra di2, I feel like my 5800 will still live a long time lol. or maybe I'm just not good enough to know the goods of Hyperglide+

[@chrisgravel7157]

Great stuff David, really appreciate the closer look and comparison of key performance and weight. Sure I'm not the only one hoping Shimano does a 180 and offers either or both groupsets in mechanical version. Can't imagine how fast existing Shimano mechanical stuff is being vacuumed up by bike manufacturers and enthusiasts

[@sarahtoustra7127]

I wouldn't touch 105 Di2 with a ten-foot pole. 3kg and mountain bike gearing for the price of prev gen Ultegra Di2 is hard to swallow.

[@bindingcurve]

Ride 12% gravel / paved roads and the gearing works. Not everyone lives in the flats.

[@williamkeys5701]

laughs in 11-48.

[@cleftoftherock6797]

Stating the obvious logic but helpful. I don’t think you can get a visual gear display in your Garmin or Karoo 2 cycle computer with the new 105. That’s half the fun and ease of pushing my hood buttons on the Ultegra dI2 12 speed. Love not having to look down to see what gear I’m in when I can see it on the screen. Not saying the 105 isn’t adequate for cycling. Everything Shimano makes is a quality product. I’ve owned Ultegra Manual 11 speed since 2006 and it still works perfectly. If you have the extra money invest it in the Ultegra. Never regret investing in quality bike gear. It’s a fitness hobby and nothing is more important than fitness. You won’t remember how much you spent years from now.

[@pgreenx]

How about a "should we upgrade to 12 speed from 11" video?

[@Flexo_l]

Nov sram rival etap vs shimano 105 di2 😎

[@Hippiehansie]

you don't need to make a comparison. SRAM rival is plastic junk

[@AlexssandroPhoto]

Hi, shimano 105 di2 working with Shimano Shimano Dura Ace Di2 Sw-r9150

[@Silidons91]

I think they did not do the right thing with the price point of 105 di2.. 105 used to be the groupset you could get to get the same gearing capabilities as ultegra/dura-ace, but at a weight penalty. And it was a fraction of the cost of dura-ace. Now, the price of 105 is more than double what it used to be, almost 3x as expensive.

[@gersonFls7]

Aswell as way more overweight

[@JayBD626]

Just picked up Cannondale Synapse 105 Di2 - works great, love it

[@Mottleydude1]

That’s not the question I have. Are e-shifters worth the extra-money based on their cost vs benefits they provide vs. comparable mechanical shifters? Based on my own experience of using both and the available peer reviewed empirical data (or more often lack there of) I would have to say no. The cost is just far to high for E-shifters for any real benefit gained. I mean for the additional cost of E-shifters I could drop a new engine on my bike. LOL

[@sventice]

I'm currently riding on r7000 105 mechanical, and I don't see a compelling reason to switch to Di2 as long as replacement parts are available. 105 Di2 is not as expensive as Ultegra, but it's still expensive, and it's about 300g heavier than the mechanical version. The mechanical version shifts really well, and I can't imagine that it would be worth shelling out over twice as much money for marginally better performance. (I am kind of excited about the extra brake pad clearance, though.) When I'm eventually compelled to get an electronic groupset, which is probably inevitable, I'll probably go with SRAM; it's less expensive, more flexible across multiple disciplines, and, importantly, wireless.

[@akasandstudio]

I'm also running r7000 105 mechanical on a Allez Sprint and find it fantastic. I do however want to clean up the cables. So I'm researching on what the better upgrade would be in a year. SRAM red would be my go to if sale prices are available for the group set. I think Ultegra might be my 2nd option.

[@znicho]

What's cross-compatibility like? Sounds like 105 with a Ultegra FD is the way to go.

[@waynemillin7476]

Hi David can you mix and match ie Ultegra front mec instend of 105 and same at the back to make a mullet gear set up i have done the same on my Giant 105 Hydro levers and just changed out the 105 to ultgra as i see fit to do so. ( cable gears)

[@adamcoatham]

Incredibly informative video, a proper review this, thank you!

[@mdgpatch7980]

Could you do a di2 hybrid. Maybe 105 levers, 105 calipers, ultegra rear derailleur, ultegra front mech, ultefra cassette, ultegra crankset. i.e save money on the levers but have best of both worlds? Or even have dura ace crankset and cassette to save some weight?

[@Steve-uw5bf]

Always appreciate your insights, David, thank you. Great info w/ both pros/cons, and thoroughly, logically presented.

[@davidarthur]

Glad it was helpful!

[@badcredentials4230]

Hey mate, thanks for the review! Just wondering say you have a frameset already and a pool of money that would cover a group set and wheels. Do you think the £600 difference would go better into the wheels or the group set, eg, 105 + premium wheels or Ultegs + mid tier wheels? I’d say the weight savings for £600 might be the same on either build but what do you think would give you the best riding experience? Cheers!

[@vongdong10]

I'd say spend more on wheels or pocket the change

[@gokaygs]

I’ll take R8000 11spd with rim at under $900 any day every day.

[@MarcEstrella]

The new Cannondale supersix evo comes with 105 di2 and stock 11-30 cassette

[@jonburnell532]

The noise of that 105 front mech is awful. Sounds like something's broken 🙉

[@Chimpy_Mc_Gibbon]

For me , having had so many bad groupsets for front shoifting, I will pay anything to have the best front shift on the market. I just wish campy could make comthing competitive!

[@grantwilliams2912]

Great.. Thank you for sharing the info 🙂👍

[@wildsurfer12]

You forgot to mention the satellite shifters on Ultegra. As someone who rides on the hoods quite a lot this would be the deciding factor for me. But hopefully these will be on the next generation of 105 one day. By then I might be able to afford it.

[@DaveCM]

If you ride on the hoods, why is satellite shifters the deciding factor?

[@gokaygs]

@@DaveCM he is talking about the buttons on top of the hoods, not the sprint or climb satellite shift buttons you can add on your handlebars

[@lukestreet8473]

What's the point in needing crazy fast front shifting? Does anyone actually use their front derailleur on the flat?

[@rob19632]

I have the older ulregra 11 speed and it works on my titanium framed biked with a mountain bike 40-11 cassette, it's not supposed to but it's fine

[@cyclonutterd7075]

So could you put an 11/30 Ultegra Cassette on the 105

[@cyclonutterd7075]

@@Carftymk yip on my old 11 speed cassettes certainly DA and Ultegra are interchangeable, I'd be surprised if the 3 off 12 speed versions aren't interchangeable.

[@beckers2287]

Mechanically it will work of course, but programming your synchro shift points will show the wrong ratios (very minor detail though). Also, your head unit may not show the true number of teeth, but I'm not sure. I have the older generation Ultegra di2 R8000 with an 11-32 cassette which works perfectly even though Shimano spec says 11-30 max. My Garmin shows the correct number of teeth in every gear too. So go figure.

[@Roger101Watson]

What are those weights based on I wonder when you consider the gearing options are not the same. That front Ultegra mech would work with the 105 so get save some cash and get the quick shifting. In the real world, I doubt many would bother.

[@nocturnalcadence1676]

Have you seen the prices for a 54t dura ace chain ring? It blows me a way how much more they are charging for 1 extra tooth. Pay to go faster it seems...

[@AverageReviewsYT]

That ultegra front derailleur was hauling ass with those shifts lol..I thought it was going to throw the chain every time it shifted jsut by how fast and how much it was moving..

[@MrYAMAHA32177]

With the heavier disc braking components along with the new electronic shifting and battery's the manufacturers must really get creative on where to make the frame paper thin and reduce the added weight.

[@piotrwojcik1756]

Ultegra di2 100% ,got mechanical ultegra on my bike and it's lovely so know what to expect from di2 ultegra, in week time upgrading to di2 12 speed . So excited

[@fredericlemieux-martel6866]

@david arthur Thanks for the review! Do you know if Ultegra front deraileur is compatible with the rest of a 105 groupset?

[@garysladek9110]

Great breakdown, thank you. Ultegra for me. I go all the way back to Shimano 600. Cheers.

[@mfu424]

Did you notice any difference in the noise? Some report that the motor is way louder with the 105 Di2?

[@marcdaniels9079]

Sounder awful TBH

[@CarloS-dc9zm]

got the 105di2 - no ragrets. would recommend for casual riders

[@bikingchupei2447]

the complete groupset of 105 di2 has dropped drastically over the past year, you can get one now for like 950USD, really tempting.

[@rosomak8244]

A casual rider doesn't need the hassle to tinker with damn batteries.

[@nocturnalcadence1676]

Do you have to buy a full dura ace crankset just to get 54t/40t, or can you simply buy the dura ace chainrings and put them on the 8100 Ultegra cranks? I know BCD is the same, I'm worried about their fancy scalloping and if the two aren't interchangeable. It's odd I've not seen anyone clearly address this issue. I just want the new Ultegra 12 speed groupset with 54/40 gearing.

[@BARTHEZ42]

I'm wondering if you can use Ultegra front derailleur with 105 groupset.

[@sbccbc7471]

I think it's possible.

[@richardjones1777]

Thanks so much for this comparison !!

[@TheCountrySteve]

No mention of the fact that the 105 shifters don't have the top buttons or that they don't accept satellite shifters? Pretty major differences

[@Rob-el8ti]

awesome video can you do one on 12 speed vs 11 speed differences soon please

[@arhu74]

I picked up a sram force asx group and red crank (and cassette and chain) for less than the shimano 105

[@steve050867]

I see no reason you can't run an 11 28 or 11 30 cassette. The issue was always, can the rear derailleur cope with more teeth not less. Maybe you can explain why Shimano says it's not designed to run less than 34 teeth.

[@mechy2k2000]

feels like artificial market segmentation. Shimano trying to protect ultregra and dura ace sales

[@Chimpy_Mc_Gibbon]

@@mechy2k2000 my thoughts entirely

[@TheCountrySteve]

I think the problem might be that the software won’t recognise the smaller cassette. Artificial limitations, in other words

[@ianiscaratti4924]

to me the front mech is some small detail and you could just upgrade to an uktegra but the 105 sti have no top buttons so you can't f-fly pages on your garmin without leting the brakes go plus there is no option for sprintshifters or tri bar shifters in the 105 sti. yes you could upgrade to ultegra but it is much more work and money to do so.

[@jevgeniardassov]

Just looked it up on my favourite e-shop. Real world price difference Ultegra di2 vs 105 di2 is 190 euros. I’d say a no brainer.

[@Chimpy_Mc_Gibbon]

Is this the new ultegra though with the better front mech? This may be old stock vs new 105!

[@jevgeniardassov]

@@Chimpy_Mc_Gibbon Come on now. It was 8170 12-speed. The choice is easier actually, both Ultegra and 105 di2-s stated Out Of Stock with no availability given. Get what You can get I guess… 🤷🏻‍♂️😅

[@petedannatt]

Might be interesting to try the105 groupset with the hyperglide equipped ultegra cassette and chain

[@kantace5198]

On its own, 105 Di2 is just not cheap enough to warrant some of its drawbacks. To me, it will depend on the price of the 2023/24 bikes. Ultegra Di2 bikes can be bought for as low as 3.399€ and there were even some sales for 2700€. To compete, 105 should land at 2999€, but somehow I doubt this.

[@davekashuba4730]

They should have called it "Ultegra Sport" or something. There is so little price difference between the two that it makes more sense to go with Ultegra if the budget allows, which just seems crazy.

[@marty197666]

@@davekashuba4730 iPad school of marketing. Oh but if you spend a little more you get this one!

[@ScottVanHorne]

1 year later it's more than possible to get a 105 Di2 bike for under 2999euro. I just built up a gravel bike with a carbon frame and wheels, along with shimano 105 Di2 for 3500cad/2383euro. Could probably knock another 500cad off that price if I went with some other more budget parts like saddle, handlebars, etc.

[@marccarter1350]

Every front chainset when i was a kid was 53/39. I have not been on one for a few years now. I really enjoy 50/34 with a 11/30 rear. Suits my needs well. Can still get a turn of speed on the flats, great for hill climbing! I have the Ultegra 11 speed set, its a delight to ride!

[@andrehendrik]

Hey, hope you don't me asking, this stuff is a bit new to me: 50/34 is considered compact? doesn't that mean for climbing purposes you'd want 11/32 or higher?

[@marccarter1350]

@@andrehendrik 50/34 is compact. its enought for the average club rider. 53/39 is what the pros ride. 11/32 will give you more range, but 11/30 should give you everything you need on the rear. Back in the late 1980's we only had 11/23 🙂

[@maxkober3577]

Also, the Ultegra and Dura Ace have the "secret" third button, with which you can control your bike computer and swipe through pages. The 105 doesn't have that. It's a minor thing, but to some people this might matter, for convenience.

[@g4rymw110]

It is a minor thing but your right , I would want that myself for my Garmin 830 , I didn’t know that , thanks for the heads up 👍🏼

[@dan_lazaro]

Can you get a 105 crank with a 52-36 ratio? I'm thinking of only buying the crank at possibly a 165 length because I'm short, but I am on Sensah and am not particularly interested in going back to shimano, I won't find a 12 speed 105 with single mount rimbrakes and mechanical shifting anyway.

[@mountaindweller4514]

So how does GRX RX815 Di2 compare to Ultegra and 105? Same as Ultegra, or front shifting the same as 105? I saw a video and the front shifter kinda sounded like 105.

[@nocturnalcadence1676]

I haven't been able to find anywhere that says if you can use the new Dura Ace chain rings on the 8100 Ultegra cranks. Surely you should be able to right? That would be a big disappointment if they weren't cross compatible. Thanks for the video David.

[@edoaditya8982]

Call me old or what but i think i still like a mechanical groupset than electronic , i hope in the future shimano / sram still produce mechanical groupset

[@sbccbc7471]

You're not the only one here, I'm mechanical-biased too. I've actually ridden with Ultegra Di2 R8070 before and can actually live without it.

[@uebernueber]

Where can I buy the hat?

[@davidarthur]

Working on some merch 👍

[@sand9577]

Thank you for the excellent breakdown. But these groupsets are just MAMIL bait. The old purely mechanic groupsets shift excellent and are serviceable (moslty) at home. These new things just means more cost of ownership.

[@arhu74]

I think that that depends on the frame/handlebars, mechanical shifting is good with external cable routing but with internally routed cable can be iffy

[@markwright8030]

Very informative in-depth video as usual. Ultrgra all day long in my eyes 👀 👍🚴‍♂️

[@amritv6889]

Question: can I use an ultegra CN-M8100 12 speed chain with 2024 Shimano 105 Di2 12 speed cassette ?

[@charlesgraham-dixon2637]

Why wouldn’t you be able to use an 11/30 cassette with the 105 rear mech?

[@davidarthur]

Because Shimano has designed it that way, with the long cage rear mech designed for larger cassettes. I'm sure somebody will try it but that's the official line

[@nikveldkamp8630]

Thanks for this detailed review! But the most important news I get from you video is that I will stick to Ultegra (opposed to 105) should I ever convert from mechanical shifting, because some of the improvements (and I don't mean the 12th gear) are only available with Dura Ace and Ultegra. The price difference at online retailers isn't that significant to justify the extra weight and less features to go with 105. E.g. if I understood it right, the improvement of the brakes didn't yet trickle down to 105 so why buy sth not as good as it could be and will probably be revised and updated during the next seasons to come.

[@DrAlafro]

In my opinion "on budget" and 1.7k groupset are orthogonal. Still can't digest it. Nevertheless, I do get the fact that 105 is still cheaper than Ultegra

[@belverticale]

I presume an 11 speed Tiagra will come out soon and will be a rebadged version of the previous 105. That'll be the new groupset of the people perhaps...2 x 11 is fine, I wouldn't worry about not having a 12 speed cassette.

[@hectorkidds9840]

I so hope so... Nearly all the bikes in my house are 11speed Shimano, and I don't want to go Di2, but getting hold of shifters is already getting hard, and they don't last forever/don't cope with crashing/ham fisted spannering.

[@belverticale]

@@hectorkidds9840 you can replace 105 shifters with Sensah Pro Team. They're compatible and very good quality now.

[@hectorkidds9840]

@@belverticale I'll let others be the early adopters but thanks and I'll keep an eye on what's going on in this space.

[@amritv6889]

is an ultegra 12 speed chain CN -M8100 compatible with cassette CS-HG 710-12 '12 speed road only' cassette ? please advise

[@sokomaltanski7222]

Great video. I live in flat area, so I use 12-25 casette, so sad I cannot use Di2 :) Thumbs up. Have a good day.

[@orlandostuart5805]

Weight difference between 105di2 and mechanical 105? Thanks

[@Bandyrobs1]

I bet you could use a 11-30 on 105. I have run various options that I am told I cant on my old Ultegra Di2

[@martinferrer3197]

Can we mix both, like 105 shifter and ultegra rear derrailler ??

[@nickvandam1214]

On a budget I'd avoid both.

[@aronchesda148]

I been using mechanical 105 for almost a year , is it worth to upgrade to 105 di 2 . The new groups cost 1120$ in my country.

[@siberian13]

I have 2019 Ultegra di2 on my current bike. The new one I’m looking at comes with 105 di2. Would the new 105 be similar to the old Ultegra?

[@davidarthur]

Yes pretty much the same

[@markzebr6463]

Poni made is that Shimano Technolgy always filters down to a lower group set over time. I firmly believe that today's 2023 105 is as good as 1995's Dura Aace

[@audax_rider]

After your review I ordered 105 di2 components but with Ultegra front derailleur. Thank you for your wonderful work!

[@davidarthur]

Great to hear!

[@michaelstleger9888]

Good content. Not rocket science but if you buy the 105 bits seperately and just get an Ultegra 11-30 cassette and front mech!!

[@kbhorizon7883]

In Japan, due to supply shortage, 105 is only 20% cheaper than Ultegra. I will just buy Ultegra in this case.

[@Danielkuota1]

As far I know and I can find. There is not 11-28 option cassette in the new ultegra. Even shimano website doesn’t display it as a option.

[@rosomak8244]

So this is the 12 speed cassette where the last cogs are utterly useless, because they would give you speeds lower than walking.

[@alexandrnaumenko3250]

why does the new electric 105 even exist? Seems like a joke.

[@beckers2287]

It's called progress. If you want mechanical buy Tiagra.

[@RyonBeachner]

What percentage of road bikes are ever entered in an actual race?

[@DeanPattrick]

Isn’t the front mech of the 105 based on the old Ultegra.... why would you buy a heavy out dated technology.???

[@BikeronaTrek]

I live in the rolling hills of Charlotte, NC. The gearing of these new bikes just doesn't suit me here. I have to use a really small cassette because of the riding groups here. I have Ultegra 11 speed mech ., and use a 11-25 cassette! I have a 52-36 front. Even this is overkill, and I can't really use the 36 much. This is with rolling hills! I average 19 mph plus to keep up on these rides. So i'll never need electric shifting, I guess.

[@universe-juice]

I'm diggn on that orro. How's that venturi treating you?

[@davidarthur]

Venturi had to go back earlier than expected sadly, but hoping it'll return so I can film a review on it

[@universe-juice]

@@davidarthur hard to get where I live. Very interested

[@marvaus]

hiya, can you set-up sprint shifters on the 105 gruppo?

[@davidarthur]

Unfortunately you can’t

[@youtubesafename123]

Ultegra mechanical is the better of the three :)

[@Aureas133]

Only poor cyclist say this

[@marcgtsr]

@@Aureas133 Poor cyclist can`t afford even a SORA equipped bike... don`t be stup.... That comment is like, so stup...

[@bradwjensen]

I won't be switching to 12-Speed. Sorry, Shimano and SRAM. I also enjoy my 53/39 chainrings and my 11-32 cassette for all my riding. Even for large steep hills I don't really need anything outside that range.. A 34 tooth cog (especially anything beyond that) would feel kinda awkward for anything but the steepest of steep climbs. I guarantee I'd change the teeth if I lived where there were mountains and loved to climb them on a bike, but 11 speed has me covered either way.

[@a1white]

Having never used Di2 why have they changed the shifter leavers from the standard Shimano (mechanical) standard that everyone is used to (brake leaver to go up a gear and smaller leaver, behind, to go down a gear)? Those 2 gear leaver controls, look very small and close to each other (especially when wearing full gloves in the winter)

[@sbccbc7471]

It's not so hard to differentiate the two buttons, I've ridden with Ultegra Di2 R8070 (third-gen Di2) before.

[@DaveCM]

The Di2 has always been like that since its inception. They probably did it to keep from accidentally shifting while braking. I had to stop myself of my habit of riding with my fingers covering the shift levers when I went to electronic because I would accidentally shift at times just by hitting a pothole or bad bump.

[@a1white]

@@DaveCM Yeah, that makes sense. With mechanical it's more of a definite action, a push of the lever, rather than a button press.

[@megatwish0685]

Can i use shimano 105 on s works sl7 and use it for road race?

[@scottsutoob]

Will a Ultegra 11-30 work with the 105?

[@romanpramuka2703]

Are you kidding? Again, if you are on a budget, you'll never buy an electronic groupset, at least for this money.

[@sbccbc7471]

Even if I have the budget, I don't need it, at least while my fingers aren't weak.

[@romanpramuka2703]

@@sbccbc7471 exactly 👍

[@dmitry.gashko]

There are not one type of "on a budget"

[@TheITNerd]

You forgot on difference. No D-Fly buttons on the 105 brake levers.

[@NogomKrozVrata]

I think the people at Shimano have lost touch with reality, maybe because you can't invent anything revolutionary for 3 generations back on new bikes, but you have to make "new" things and sell them somehow. They have 3 Di2 groups and the price difference between 105 and Ultegra is so small (20-25%) that anyone with £1700 will easily have £600 more to buy Ultegra and probably wouldn't notice the price difference. And for £1,700 you're basically getting the remnants of the previous generation Ultegra with 105 sticker, you just seem poorer for not buying back then. Everyday people buy new/used bikes for £600 anyway and ride them for years, and who the target audience is for the new 105 is up to the geniuses at Shimano. And one more thing... Shimano has 7 tiers of road groupsets, with only minor differences between the two. At least 3 groups are unnecessary, so they could make some cuts there if they want more profit.