What’s The Difference Between GRX & Road Groupsets?

[@gcn]

What groupset do you ride?

[@ChiccoMusic12]

Ultegra is much better looking and that's why I would choose it.

[@lukestreet8473]

Ancient ultegra... We love second hand bikes right.

[@19MHansen95]

I ride GRX 2x11 Di2 and it's epic for both road and offroad. Love it!

[@lyha91]

SRAM Apex 42x11-42. Can definitely feel the big jumps on the road, but this has actually taought me to spin at a higher cadence. Not really happy with the comfort of the hoods, GRX definitely takes the win over SRAM here.

[@SuperNeilB]

2x11 Ultegra DI2 on a Gravel bike, 8000 miles and still working fine. Don't really need the lower ratio of a GRX.

[@gplama]

A similarity is neither will connect to Hammerhead GPS units next week. C'mon Shimano. There's still time to do the right thing here. Put the users (Shimano Di2 owners) first.

[@michaelcorleone2794]

what's about hammerhead gps I lost track

[@gplama]

@@michaelcorleone2794 I'll refer you to Google on this one. There's a few articles posted on this in the last 24hrs on the topic.

[@michaelcorleone2794]

@@gplama thanks mate

[@hockysa]

@@michaelcorleone2794 basically Shimano being a bully forcing hammerhead to remove integration. Shane has a good KZbin video covering it.

[@inakilrg]

Shame on Shimano.

[@BrutallionStallion]

I decided to move(sell) from my old Canyon Ultimate CF 8 Di2 (rim brake version) to Canyon Grizl CF 8 GRX810 Mechanical, and buy 2 sets of wheels (1 - robust aluminum with thick tyres for Gravel and Bikepacking, 2nd - carbon light wheels with slick tyres for weekend road rides with friends). I think a gravel bike is really a "do it all" bike.

[@gcn]

That's a really good choice Vladyslav!

[@Mrwitte95]

Did the same wuth the new endurace, gravel tires on the stock wheels, and 2nd pair of fancier wheels with narrower cassette and with the stock road tires. Got it with sram rival though which also has a clutch and doesn't give me any compromise on faster group rides on road ;) You have a small compromise on road, as much as i have small compromise on tough off road, but both are awesome :D

[@eviehawke]

that's exactly why i bought a grizl, to do the same thing. i LOVE my bike.

[@oa2221]

I did exactly that just for fun with my GRIZL Cf SLX and then I noticed that it is even stiffer then my ultimate when using its carbon wheels. Wouldn’t I like the ultimate so much I could easily sell it and just use the GRIZL with two sets of tires.

[@Tubesians]

Snap exactly the same but with a Topstone 5

[@meister-t]

Some things are just to create unnecessary incompatibility, like 2.5mm out on the front. limit screws can do that without requiring a new derailleur. The reason you do want a different rear derailleur, is because the progression is steeper as it moves from one sprocket to another. The angle is like that of a mountainbike derailleur, to accommodate the larger sprockets. But of course, they make sure you can't use a mountainbike derailleur with your road groupset, to force you to buy an entire groupset, if you want wider range on the back. There was a time, with certain groupsets, when rear derailleurs were interchangeable between road and mountainbike (same cable-pull ratio), but they quickly did away with that, when people started mixing in order to get a wider gear range. This is why there's a portion of the market that resists buying new stuff: because of all the BS where they intentionally make everything incompatible. You can't believe them anymore when they make up some reason/benefit to the change, because they've been doing that for too long (like a certain cable-pull ratio giving this or that supposed benefit, when they do the opposite years after, and when competitors aren't even in step with what direction to go). It's all just to make you spend money, again. Nothing is intended to last anymore. Not to mention how much it costs to replace a cracked rear derailleur.

[@radzieckigraczproductions3]

This is why i didnt advance further than 9 speed, i can mix and match as much as i want with 9 speed shifters

[@gratstagram]

You hit it right on the head. Have you compared a GRX and Shimano mechanical road group? There are almost no differences aside from chainring sizes. It's literally a rebranding and some rubber coating on the brake levers. Boom. NEW GRAVEL GROUP. 🙄

[@khazza930]

I run a mix of the two... Road chainset and front-mech (for the higher speeds range) with GRX cassette and rear mech (for the wider range and lower gears when climbing + the clutch mechanism)... and road shifters just because they were cheaper :)

[@UnoRunescaper]

On which bike? And how wide are your tyres?

[@khazza930]

@@UnoRunescaper Tyres are 35mm, but could easily fit 38 or maybe even 40. Bike is a hybrid chris boardman (British brand popular in the UK), but most parts have been replaced when i converted it to gravel

[@SteveBrill]

Simon's videos are always so well presented. Plus now in the new kit, it's even better. By the way, I love the paint job on the Orbea. 👍

[@gcn]

Glad you enjoyed this one Steve!

[@marcusathome]

Back in the day you could easily combine MTB with road groupsets, at least for 7, 8 and 9 speed. So you could combine the ST-6500 shifters with XT derailleurs and you had your perfect gravel setup. More compatibility means more freedom to chose, to mix and match. I'm still happy with this setup, great gear range, and easy to maintain.

[@2ball434]

Thankfully You still can too!

[@AndreiNeacsu]

@@2ball434 No, you can't after 10sp. I have to use 9sp XT with the Ultegra levers. @Marcus Ludwig, I still have a cyclocross bike with that exact setup and still love it to this day. 2x9 with some of the best endurance parts you can find. Well these days they're no longer called "cyclocross", "adventure", or "monstercross" bikes; it's various levels of "gravel bike", that new invention that we never saw before, the one that needs to bring road levers to offroad bikes. Oh, thank you Shimano for delivering us the GRX, we never knew we needed it until you ended the compatibility between the road levers and MTB derailleurs, and also for being the godfather of our newly baptized bikes!

[@AaronGruber]

@@AndreiNeacsu I think the other commenter meant you can still use and mix 9-speed components, which I also do on one of my bikes (sora STIs with deore RD). the rest of your comment gives me big "old man yells at clouds" vibes, but you do you.

[@swe223]

A few years ago yes, but nowadays honestly there is no need anymore for MTB compatibility. You can use a 46-30 crankset, any road or GRX shifters with an Ultegra/GRX rear derailleur that can accommodate a 11-36 cassette natively, and even an 11-40 with something like a Roadlink. Honestly that's not bad, not expensive and very easy to find everywhere with good deals.

[@brendonnoble5227]

You still can with Sora 9 speed. 2x9 18 gears with all the range you could wish for if you put an alivio rear mech and cassette.

[@runrideski6003]

We bought Ultegra-equipped gravel bikes in the pre-GRX era. They came with the 46-36 (cyclocross) chainsets, 11-34 cassettes and the Ultegra rear mech DID have a clutch at that time. This setup has worked mint for us. I do go into the drops a lot for braking on steep downhills, so I'd really like to see how the braking from the hoods on the GRX levers compares.... that's the main upside I see to GRX.

[@jeeping32810]

I ride a road groupset on my gravel bike! Ultegra 6800 11spd, killing it for years! since 2018!

[@ad9898]

I've put a GRX chainset and front derailleur on my wife's road bike mixed with 105 shifters and rear derailleur and it works fine. Giving proper low gears for climbing in the Alps.

[@ALeagueMan]

My first "real" bike I bought last year has a 2x GRX. It was available within a week, and all road bikes had a 6+ month wait. Now I've never ridden a classic road 105 or Ultegra, however I'm not convinced I'm missing out on anything. I've put 32mm slicks on my bike in place of the gravel tyres, and just change them out when I plan to go out on the trails. Otherwise it basically lives on the road and I love it. One of the best purchases I've ever made. And for what it's worth I agree the GRX looks more rugged and less race like than Ultegra...but does that really matter to 99.99% of cyclists? Don't be put off buying a bike with GRX, you won't be disappointed...

[@Fear.of.the.Dark.]

Depends. You might be spinning a lot on road due to the grx speed combinations vs 105/ultegra. I have the 12-25 ultegra cassette which gives me single step combos for most road speeds as well.

[@ALeagueMan]

@@Fear.of.the.Dark. quite possible in some circumstances, but I'm not a competitive rider nor seeking to climb Strava leaderboards so I find it just fine. When it comes time to change my cassette I may look in to changing from 11-34 to 11-30. But these are minor gripes. I think if you're worried about spinning out on the road then you're probably not even considering a bike with a GRX groupset, and instead have a dedicated road bike.

[@Fear.of.the.Dark.]

@@ALeagueMan yes I do have one road bike only since I ride on tarmac most.That is point I am making since you said 99% of the cyclists will do fine with GRX. If you are really doing gravels majority of the times then it is ok to get gravel bike with gravel groupsets. If you get gravel bike with gravel groupset and you are doing road tarmac 95% of the time, then you will feel the miss of 105/ultegra gear combinations. Some people keep interchanging both road and gravel bikes and decide to buy one but they are not really built for same stuff. Very important to pick the right tool for the type of terrain you will ride in most.

[@alexshobbies2187]

I have a road race bike with Ultegra R8020 and a gravel bike with GRX810 and they are remarkably similar. The big advantages I've noticed of GRX over Ultegra are that the rear mech clutch is a life saver on and off road (rough roads where I live) and the ergonomics of the the GRX shifters does not compare to the Ultegra shifters! The GRX hoods are the most comfortable place I have ever rested my hands on a bike! With the weights and looks being so similar I would say the only thing that I miss with GRX (I usually do mixed surface rides) is that I run out of gears on the top end very quickly. I have the largest ratio they offer at 48/31 and a 52/36 on my race bike. I think if I could have the perfect groupset I would start with Ultegra and swap in a cluthced rear mech and those amazing grx shifters!

[@ThefoxFR]

Just what I have on my 1X setup (46 front + 11/42 rear). Ultegra-RX rear mech (RD-RX800-GS) w/ clutch, incl Hanger Extender + GRX shifters. Smooooth

[@johnhilton1360]

I run grx 1x 11/42 with 42t chainring and have 2 sets of wheels for my gravel bike one with gravel tyres others with 32mm road tyres.. love it on and off road works for me

[@stephenauckly]

Thanks so much! This could not have been more perfectly timed as I will be receiving my new gravel bike next week! With GRX!

[@joefinlayson7738]

I recently purchased a 2022 Dura Ace Di2 groupset build with a new 2022 Cervelo Aspero 5. My plan has been to use the bike as both a road and gravel bike, as eloquently mentioned in this video, with two separate wheelsets. I started out by pairing 28mm road tires on ZIPP 303 Firecrest wheels, and it all seemed like a little slice of heaven. However, as soon as I changed to a gravel set up with ZIPP 303 Firecrest wheels running 40mm Pirelli Cinturato Gravel H tires, I learned that there is not enough space between the front derailleur pod, which attaches to the seat post, and the tire. My little slice of heaven quickly felt more like a kick in the nether region. After further investigation and MANY emails with Cervelo, I learned that they simply hadn't tested the 2022 Dura Ace Di2 12-speed groupset with this frame in order to provide guidance to local bike shops and customers. I was disappointingly told that Cervelo would do nothing to assist me as they apparently feel that making a disclaimer statement that "Cervelo does not guarantee compatibility with all groupsets" should suffice. (side note: I was very disappointed with Cervelo's customer service, as they simply told me I should've known better than to pair this groupset with this frame -- despite publishing very little information/guidance in the market). I am now left with the need to purchase another groupset (GRX 815 Di2) in order to use this rather expensive frame. So, in keeping with the question posed in here: what groupset do you use? My response is; I really love the Dura Ace Di2 12-speed -- its butter-smooth, nearly silent shifting is, like I already said, a little slice of heaven. Once I have a chance to ride the soon-to-arrive GRX 815 Di2 I will weigh in again with comparative comments. Until then, my $5k Aspero frame will need to wait to actually taste any gravel...

[@swish6143]

How is the experience now with the 815? I am looking for a bike, and a 33/50t would be a nice option also on gravel or at least a 10-36 cassette. SRAM has that, but just with a 30/43t, so no gain since both ratios are almost the same.

[@tomtiehatten8792]

Nice presentation by Simon. I ride my Rose Backroad gravel bike as a recreational bike, not riding races. It works very well with a 1X set up, I'm only missing the very large gears when riding downhill but where I live there aren't any mountains so a biggest gear of 42x11 is more than sufficient (it's equal to a 50x13 gear). For riding on the road I use road wheels with 28 mm road tyres and I'm not slower/faster than on my previous road bike. For riding offroad I can choose 700c wheels with 40 mm tyres or 650B wheels with 47 mm tyres and these three wheelsets cover all of my bike activities. I think for someone who doesn't ride bike races a gravel bike is the all in one bike that many riders were looking for.

[@10nsolly]

this video couldn't have come at a better time as I just started to consider a gravel bike and was about to do some research on the differences between the groupsets!

[@captainsteve6224]

My Trek Checkpoint AL3 is rocking the Sora groupset and I'm loving it.

[@johanreberg4872]

When I bought a new bike coming in to this season I choosed to go for a gravel bike since I knew I was gonna go riding alot on the gravel roads close to where I live. The 2x11 gearing with 46/30 and 11-34 casette suits me both for gravel and tarmac. A setup with say 50/34 would not make ride faster since I hardly can use the heavier gears on the setup I got now. The power is not there. 😁

[@einundsiebenziger5488]

... I chose* to go ... a* lot* ...

[@MrRannison]

I ride a 2019 Trek Checkpoint with R 8000 Ultegra 50-34 & 11-34 and find it very accomplished for most gravel with bike packing weight. Really good for fast gravel; less so perhaps for knarly single track - but I have an MTB for that. A couple mates have a later Checkpoint with GRX and they are very happy, and other friends with later Checkpoint with SRAM gearing. They seem happy too….

[@deliciouscookie]

8:57 "Ima do a jump. Did you get that?" I just love this enthusiasm

[@gcn]

So do we! 😂

[@jeffv103]

My Niner RLT RDO... Praxis 175mm 32/48 GRx rear derailleur Ultegra st-r8020 shifters Ultegra front derailleur XT 11-42 rear cassette Everything shifts flawlessly and I occasionally cross chain big/big with no issues at all. The 32x42 lets me climb almost everything I encounter

[@nielsbovri2502]

Clear Video! I ride Shimano ultegra with a 39/52 to 11/28 combi (old 600). I decided to go for a full road groupset and just go more careful on gravel sections. But this video makes me feel like trying the invers.

[@geoffreyring1856]

I have an Ultegra RX rear derailleur on my Scott Addict gravel/road bike and it has a clutch. Additionally, I have fitted it with an 11/40 from my mountain bike with a derailleur adapter and it worked great for a very difficult gravel ride. I use a standard 11/30 for road riding. As long as you can do some simple mechanical work, you can mix and match pretty well. I find the 50/34 front will spin out at about 30mph on the road down gentle grades so I can’t imagine using a 48/31 GRX.

[@job9902]

I have Grx600 chainset on my Tiagra road bike, swapped straight on and lowered the front shifter a couple of mm. With an 11-32casette it is brilliant where I live in the Peaks where 20% climbs are 2a penny. You do have to spin 140rpm to get 70km/h though. I hardly ever miss the 50/34 chainset I took off. My gravel bike has a lowest ratio of 40/42 on 1x GRX, not quite low enough sometimes, and 40/11is frequently not high enough on the road. I will be fitting 2x to that when the chain ring is knackered

[@bitgeist21]

I'm a generation behind the latest Ultegra 8100 Di2 group set, but what I do have (on my C-Dale Synapse) is an Ultegra Di2 Rx rear mech. So, it's a road mech WITH the built-in clutch for better chain control on "less than pristine" tarmac. In terms of GRX on the road; no me. Shimano designed these group sets for specific purposes and I, for one, like the right tool for the right job. If I'm building a Topstone Carbon for gravel riding; GRX. If I'm building a SuperSix to tackle the Alps or the Dolomites; Ultegra Di2. (Of course, your frame set of choice will do just as nicely as well :-)

[@Philip_Hatchet]

I feel you guys missed the most important aspect about these two groupsets. Is there a difference in the durability? People use their gravel bikes in the winter and worse weather, so is that a smart thing to do or does it not really make sense? There is no difference in the harm to the frame, there is no difference in price between an ultegra roadbike or grx gravel bike, so why do people still make this decision? Is GRX really capable of handling mud, dirt and grime better than ultegra?

[@igglebert3261]

This! The GRX groupset is so strong!

[@armadillito]

Good question

[@feedbackzaloop]

GRX must be a bit more durable simply from being 11 speed and having more meat on the cogs

[@crazybadger617]

If you go to 11:20, he specifically says the road group set is "more than robust enough". So while I am sure there are some minor differences, he seems to be implying that is not a major issue to consider.

[@rogerpartington9413]

I have 20,000 km on my Ultegra Di2 50/34 set up. It takes a lot of abuse that includes winter road salt, mud, dust grime etc. It's bullet proof. My experience with the SRAM Rival 1X was not so great

[@thomastryon3111]

I’ve always favored a group set to help me climb a steep incline. AKA gravel groupsets. You can always coast downhill if you run out of gear. You don’t have that same option going up hill.

[@JakebMiller]

My Trek Checkpoint has the GRX on it and I daily commute with this bike and occasionally ride gravel. This is a great drivetrain for gravel and bike adventures but if you are out riding road, you're gonna max the bike out. The fastest I've had the Checkpoint up to is 36.8 mph, it was a very nice downhill with tailwind. If I'm in the flats and no headwind, I can maintain about 25-27 mph. So it does me good for commuting not so much in road races.

[@BOBopalooza]

Just curious...how much higher do you reckon your top speed would be with a road groupset (assuming the same downhill/tailwind)?

[@JakebMiller]

@@BOBopalooza I've topped the bike out at 36mph on a great downhill. I think if I installed a 48t, I'd get up to maybe 40.

[@JakebMiller]

@@BOBopalooza love the avatar too. Space Ghost for life

[@sdavidge23]

I enjoyed the video and it kinda supported my direction: - 105 shifters - Ultegra 46-36 modified to 46-34 - rear 11-36 swapped out with 11-40 So I’ve a bike that ain’t too slow down a hill and ain’t too hard up the hill. It’s no mountain bike but a great all rounder.

[@alexgraves6842]

Already have mechanical GRX-810 installed on my gravel bike, and it has been doing remarkably well for my needs.

[@andrei0525]

Don‘t tell shimano, but i‘ve put a 2x11 speed 11-40 SLX cassette on their 105 groupset…i always felt i needed more gears on climbs bur never spun out in the fastest gear yet…next bike though will definitely be a do it all gravel with GRX

[@Piplodocus]

Don't tell shimano, but I put a SRAM XD driver and SRAM 10-42 cassette on my GRX 1x11. Wider 420% range but still got GRX's left hand dropper lever and in-line sub-brake levers. :)

[@hectorkidds9840]

Me too, 11-40 and ultegra on one bike, with a 34:50, the other bike has ultegra shifters, GRX mechs, a GRX46:30 front and 11:40 out back, works perfectly. My partners bike has an ultegra front mech with a GRX chain set too, also fine!

[@fennec13]

I already have a gravel bike with a full GRX 810 setup (2x11) - that is the same level of quality as the previous 11 speed Ultegra. I ride on rode, off road, trails, mud, urban (NYC) riding - you name it. With two wheelsets I can have one bike that really does do everything. So the better question is why have a specific (only) road bike ? imo.

[@hzunasdfgbciw]

The new Ultegra / Dura Ace shifts faster than the GRX, but old shifting speed is excellent, too. Ultegra doesn't need a cable connection to the shifters and adds the option for additional shifting buttons - good for TT, but not relevant for gravel. I don't own a gravel bike so far, but on my MTB 48:11 falls a bit short. So I'd like to have the option for 52:11 for rougher roads on a gravel bike.

[@Titanoffuture]

The Video Quality is amazing! I found these 90s flashing edits a little too much. Still great editing!

[@goldenshowercap9395]

Currently riding a steel frame with Tiagra 10-speed, 50-34 / 11-32. Hilly where I live, and there are a couple of hills I can not climb. Now looking at a ti gravel bike and considering GRX 48-31 & 105 10-speed cassette, 11-36. Couple of lower gears than I currently have and minimal loss of high gears, which I rarely use anyway, since I'm built for comfort and not speed. With a couple of wheelsets this could take over for commuting and endurance/ leisure rides, and offroad

[@bobfrode]

I have a Road bike and a 1x CX and i love them both for their purpose. My 1x isnt that fast on the road, but perfect on gravel and steep climbs

[@gcn]

Two bikes is always a nice solution to this problem!

[@adamrudling1339]

@@gcn only 2 ?

[@tianyi05]

Which is fine if you don't travel much. Shipping one bike is pain enough. Two people with two bikes each, is two too many bikes. Try taking a train in Europe or catching a ferry in the Adriatic with two bikes and a backpack.

[@bobfrode]

@@gcn well...i have a 3 one too :) (hardtail)

[@koko-lores]

@@tianyi05 what prevents you from leaving one bike at home while travelling with the other? I can even leave all of them at home when going on a skiing trip. Though if there is space and I'm not going to stay in a tent (and carry all my gear), it's hard to leave the fat bike at home...

[@s.m.dickerson6712]

Nice video... style and substance. I've run the previous generation Ultegra Di2 on my gravel bike for the last few years... has the clutch on the rear derailleur. I keep 11-34 on both gravel 650b and road 700c wheels, but do a seasonal swap of chain and chainrings - 50/34 for ~mostly road~ in the summer/fall, then 46/30 for winter/spring gravel.

[@erlendsteren9466]

Last year I was on 11 speed grx 40mm chainring-11-42 cassette. I never wanted inbetween gears, but I could like one extra light and one extra heavy, so this year its 30-46 in front and 11-34 behind. I wonder how it will be.

[@richiejames928]

That orbea paint job was MADE for me! it’s gorgeous

[@mgrant6607]

GRX with 2 wheelsets for gravel (48/31-11x34, 40mm Maxxis) and road training (11x28, 32c GP5000). New Dura-ace for new road bike (50/34-11x30, 30c Schwabe Pro).

[@pe3117]

I have GRX 810 con my Egravel bike a Specialized Turbo Creo SL 11x1 and I love how it works I think is very robust so is perfect for an electric bike The clutch works perfect never a single drop chain, brakes are 160mm and I’m a heavy rider 85kg + 13kg of the bike and they stop like nothing! Shift levers are great because of your hands positions I don’t miss a 2x because of the motor For me is a very robust and reliable group

[@aquitesillyname]

It may be worth knowing that you can combine 1x11 GRX rear mech with it 2x11 front mech without issues, allowing you to combine the 11x42 cassette with your 2x crankset of choice. Came across it on a few Velotraum bikes at work, works just fine.

[@tomtiehatten8792]

What also works if you use a 1x11 set up is a 11-46 cassette, although Shimano says something else. It's even possible to use a 51 cog if you replace the rear derailleur cage for a one from Garbaruk so if you want to use mountainbike gears with Shimano GRX there are some possibilities. The other possible thing is to use SRAM parts where you can mix road and mountainbike parts without any trouble.

[@tongucyaman]

This was the information that I was looking for. Can you clarify a bit more? I plan to use the GRX di2 RX800 in a 2x setup with a 48/31 Crankset and 11x42 Cassette. Simon, in this video, specifically mentioned that 11x42 is for a 1x setup. I hope that you are right.

[@djfung]

I have the ultimate all round set up. Ultegra shifters , crank 52 34 , grx rear derailleur and xt 11 40. The bike climbs anything u could throw at it . Took it up some 35% steeps. And set speed Kom on the descent. I mix and match the bits instead of going with their predetermined set up

[@swe223]

Is the GRX rear derailleur working natively with an 11-40? I'm currently using an 11-36 but not sure it can go much bigger. Or did you use a roadlink?

[@djfung]

@@swe223 ya works beautifully, it would shift on biggest ring and cog. Mind you I have a 52 34 at the front as well it's extremely wide range.

[@djfung]

@@swe223 didn't use roadlink

[@deanblackwell2090]

one of the odd things about GRX is that all the different levels of components seem to be compatible. My Checkpoint came with 800 series deraleurs, 600 series shifters and 400 series brakes for instance

[@bateriayvr8988]

I have the exact same setup on my Kona Rove NRB DL Deluxe, so it's likely a common configuration for mid level gravel builds

[@jakubs.6817]

They say 600 shifters is the same level as 105 shifters however they don’t have servo wave system. In my opinion this is cheating the customer. They break really bad. I would add extra money for grx 800 or just buy shimano 105

[@billyriker2966]

GRX600 46/30 crankset with 11-42 cassette. Deore XT 10 speed rear derailleur and Sora 9 speed front derailleur. I ride a mix of paved roads and very steep trails and everything in between.

[@bratSebastian]

Do you have a 11|11-42 XT cassette and RD-RX812 rear deraileur along with FC-RX600 and that works without any issues?

[@matt_m126]

I got an entry level gravel bike last summer to see if I would like it. It is equipped with an entry level road/Claris groupset. I can keep up with the others both on the road and in gravel no problem. I have a better 105 equipped bike on order. I had the option to also get the same bike with GRX, but I think the road groupset makes the bike more versatile.

[@moxplow]

Awesome editing. Superb video quality! Kudos to you guys :)

[@gcn]

Thanks! 😁

[@gcn]

Thank you!

[@OWC2000]

I have GRX with single chain ring and I swapped out the standard 11-42 for a 11-46 rear cassette.

[@The1trueDave]

6:41 So can the 11-42 cassette be used in conjunction with the 46/30 double or are there compatibility issues? Thanks...

[@bratSebastian]

I'd love to know the same as I'd love to have 30/42 option for the toughest climbs and I don't need more than 46/11 as I didn't use 48/11 in the 3x drivetrain in my cross. The half of cogs in both cassettes (11-34 & 11-42) starting from the smallest are the same so I'd loose abolutely nothing. From the Shimano GRX groupset documentation: the cranks are the same. They only differ with chainrings and the front derailleur is needed in 2x drivetrain. So you can start with 1x option and then switch for 2x if you find yourself in need for more gears. That you may do given that you have 11-34 rear setup as that would work with 1x drivetrain according to the spec. For the 11-42 however, to make it work you need a different rear derailleur that if I understand it correctly, doesn't expect 2 different chain lines. It's only my guess as the spec doesn't mention any explanation or even information about incompatibility. So I wonder why that shouldn't work. I can't imagine any problems except a limitation for the chain length in 48/42 or 46/42 gears, but who would even want to try that? I've asked Shimano by sending an e-mail to the polish distributor as I couldn't find on any site of Shimano any email address to the technical support. Still didn't get any answer after 2 weeks. Maybe you'd be luckier. Hopefully you will add a comment here with the answer. Cheers!

[@nathanmcginty5755]

I think with the state of the roads in the uk, a clutch is definitely needed on a road bike 2x groupset.

[@gcn]

They can sometimes be like riding on gravel! 😬

[@brankosabol]

@Vinicius You can. Last year I had a dropped chain accident on shitty roads over here that pulled my 5800 derailleur into spokes. It was done, so I needed new one - originally I was planning to get Ultegra RX with the clutch, but it wasn't available at the time due to stock issues, so I ended with GRX 810, and it works great with 32t cassette and 52-36 in the front.

[@Piplodocus]

Based on the state of roads in the UK you probably need a 150mm travel full-sus enduro MTB with smooth tyres. :D

[@akactors]

I ride a ULtegra on my Domane Trex and a Gate Carbon 600 on my touring bike. Both are excellent for the job they do.

[@ioanmcmlxxxviii]

I love all your videos, you are number one from GCN.

[@fredmcgough748]

I ride two bikes road with 52/42 with 13-24 and a mountain bike triple 44/34/24 with 11-32 cassette. I do like the Grx 46/30 crankset. Maybe for future. I like flat bars more for off road, it's easier to turn quickly around obstacles, ie. A rock.

[@philipp-christopherdeeke2210]

What's really neat about the GRX DI2 leavers is the position of the DFLY buttons. They're on the inside instead of on the top of the hoods. Much closer to your thumbs this way.

[@furst6]

I have an Ultegra road setup and a 1x12 ZRace chinese groupset on the gravel. nothing but great things to say about ultegra so focusing on the gravel, I love my 1x setup. The range is 11-50 and my only complaint is cassette weight - it continues to rotate a bit when I stop peddling giving an unsettling feedback bump. I've ridden the ZRace for years on my mountain bikes and it has remained reliable and clean shifting. My upgrade will be a lighter cassette and maybe go 10-50 using an xD freehub to get more top end on the road.

[@Eirrof]

Using the new 12s Ultegra Di2 groupset, 11-34 cassette, with the 11s GRX 48/31 crank. Just needed to space the chainrings 1.5mm closer to the frame and its all good!

[@richardkreienbuhl5402]

it´s possible?

[@Eirrof]

@@richardkreienbuhl5402 Yes! Used it on my gravel bike all of last year

[@Piplodocus]

For me: GRX 1x with a 38T absoluteBlack oval chainring and a SRAM XD driver freehub with SRAM 10-42 cassette for my gravel bike. I seem to be able to get up everything and not spin out too much on the road, for everything from fun-time random MTB-level trail stuff to bikepacking. I have no idea why Shimano use microspline on MTB so you get a little 10t for wider range (as well as bigger low end gears), but for gravel 1x they don't come with microspline, just standard shimano spline, so you just don't get the same range as SRAM 1x and I like that little bit of extra top end. 420% vs 380% gear range does make a difference. That's 96 vs 105.6 gear inches for the geeks amongst you, with the same 25 gear inches in the bottom end (and I reckon that oval helps a tiny bit getting those extra few crank rotations and stopping me "stalling" when I'm at the limit of a rough steep climb)! I've dropped the chain a few times when the clutch has accidentally been off and sometimes ridden through so much thick mud in the winter it's still forced the chain off the chainring, so as a MTB-er too, GRX 1x defo seems the one I'm most confident with for the riding that bike does. I'm going to pick up my new 105 road groupset I ordered tomorrow for the road bike. I would have been somewhat tempted to go 2x GRX on that, but there's unsurprisingly no GRX rim-brake option (and I don't think it "needs" a gravel groupset), so 105 is the sensible option, and variety is the spice of life anyway.

[@garycunnington2268]

I have a S-Works Diverge fitted with 11sp (2by) Dura-Ace to get keep weight down. However using a GRx Di2 means I get capacity to run 11-34 and 50-31 without sacrificing shifting performance by using wolf tooth devices. I also swap between 650b and 700c depending on road racing or gravel racing. Nothing else I have looked at seems to give me this versatility.

[@eggymcwolf1]

Treck Checkpoint ARL5, 105 groupset, Ultegra chain. 80% road, 15% gravel/dirt roads, 5% trails

[@jimreppinb14]

The paint job on that orbea 😍

[@gcn]

Much better than Conor's 🌈🦄💩 or Hank's McDonald's bike!!

[@tomhiscox9683]

Larger tyres increases the circumference of your wheel and affects how far you move in a given gear ratio, so a 50-11 on 28mm tyres isn’t too dissimilar to a 48-11 on 42mm tyres.

[@jonnythelegs2597]

I'm running my Foil di2 with an ultegra rx and 1x setup I use it for road duties and somewhat bizarrely bike camping too as I have an extrawheel trailer for glamping with the speakers and a lightweight bivvy setup for when I fancy waking up somewhere random but nice. Really easy to play with ratios plus running it 1x has more than doubled the di2 battery life.

[@simonpeneau7802]

I use previous generation of 105, groupset of people for the win ! 48/36 in front, 11/34 for the cassette. Its really good, but maybe a 48/31 or 46/30 would be better in steep and technical sections. I ride with a friend who is on a Canyon Lux, we ride mostly MTB terrain and i love it with my Stevens Gavère !!

[@richiejames928]

I’ve only got one bike. A gravel bike. I do have a set of road wheels for when my rides too muddy during the winter months and I stick to road riding. I’ve put full grx 810 on it, 42-11/40. it’s flawless. I’ve got the same cassette on my road wheels as the chain will feel too long if I put a say 11-36 105 cassette on. I know as I have this cassette fitted to a turbo training wheel and it gets a bit noisy in the bigger cogs. the only thing I can fault is the slightly bigger jumps n cadence when I go for fast road only rides with the 11-40

[@drooghead]

There is no problem. If you aren't concerned about matching groupsets you can put any gear combination you like on your bikes to suit the ride and rider. Chainwheels and cassettes are designed to be removable and replaceable.

[@Ianherriot83]

I have an endurance and a grail because i have no idea about any of this, but, my instinct is my grail can do both equally but wouldnt take the endurace offroad, add tyres in id think grail wins again and importantly comfort grail again. I love it, plus its ali and my endurace is carbon so even more impressive

[@danlangevin2459]

My Cannondale Topstone has a mechanical Ultegra RX groupset with a clutch. If I remember right, the timing of the Ultegra RX group was right around when GRX started coming out...

[@DKofDAH]

Since I’m a very weak rider ( ftp only double digits) and live in a very hilly area I have a gravel bike with road tires 34/48 in the front and 11-42 in the back. I know for some of you this might sound crazy low but if you have powermeters try to go up 12% or more with less than 100 watts and you will fail miserably with a „normal“ road groupset. But thanks for the comparison. Was always wondering what’s really the difference

[@Frandaman84]

I have my 80s road bike with 1x setup, 48t chainring x 11/42 cassette itll do most everything as well.. I think the perfect setup is a 50t in front with 11/44 out back

[@jamiefarrell6496]

I’m glad Si mentioned the looks as a factor - for me, I was trying to choose between the aesthetics of Ultegra (with RX RD) and the wider ratios of GRX. Didn’t want to choose “either, or” (I like to have my cake AND eat it), so eventually went with SRAM Force AXS Wide which has the looks that I like, with the wider ratios and available cranklengths too. It’s a great do-it-all solution. Pretty happy…except I do still lust after GRX 815 shifters - I think they’re the best looking component out there!

[@da14a49]

Looks + function = happy choice

[@LOZUPONEJ]

My gravel bike is all ultegra except for my grx 46/30 crankset. Works great

[@LOZUPONEJ]

My front Derailer is GRX too

[@frankharradence5546]

Have GRX Di2 on my Shand Gravel bike. Owing to a knee injury I’ve fitted a rear cassette with a 11-40 tooth range, in order to make steep climbs easier for me. Shimano only recommend a 34 tooth size. However, following careful detailed research I went ahead, several months later all works fine. I did test it on the big front ring while on the cycle stand…no clearance probs. On the road I only use the largest sprocket when I’m on the smallest front ring of the double. Really love the feel of the levers for braking etc….but hate that Shimano are stopping Hammerhead from using Di2 data 😡

[@mattkavanaugh5623]

My 2015 Cannondale Slate gravel bike came with Shimano 105, compact chainrings and 11-34 cassette. It was an early gravel bike and predated GRX. Over time I swapped out the cassette for an 11-42, the cranks for GRX 2x, and the rear mech for GRX (to get the benefit of a clutch). In order to get the cassette and rear mech to work together I put on a Wolftooth rear derailleur extender. It all works reasonably well together. The shifting is a bit compromised, not as smooth and precise as intended, but it works, and I get the benefit of a super low 31T chainring and a 42T rear sprocket. For the type of riding I do on this bike, I need to be able to winch of very steep dirt climbs. Not endorsed by Shimano, but mixing and matching the road and GRX components can be done.

[@trufflemonster5399]

I know it’s not the same thing but I run grx400 (mechanical) on my gravel bike and ultegra R8070 (Di2) on my road bike. Because of the weight difference in the bikes I don’t find the easier gearing in grx makes much difference up hill but I used the gravel bike as a commuter with road tires for a while and definitely noticed the difference on the road. Really only because of the jumps in ratios on the flats and lack of bigger gears on descents. Having said that if I was comparing mechanical to mechanical I don’t think I’d care. The biggest difference in the bikes for me is the geometry.

[@95Geli]

I have a canyon grail with grx 810, and I just use it as a comfortable road bike :)

[@Metal-Possum]

Back in my day we had fully rigid hybrids with Shimano CX400 or CX700. An "in between" groupset is nothing new. Also, special credit to the GT Tachyon with its proprietary 700D wheelset (583mm) and drop bars.

[@The_One-Eyed_Undertaker]

One bike for BOTH road AND gravel? Neither Ultegra (too expensive for something that will get trashed on the gravel) nor GRX (no top speed on the road). 105 for the win!

[@michall6376]

I had an entry level gravel bike with 9s Sora at the back and an 46/32t FSA crank at the front. It worked well enough but the gear ratios were all scrambled.

[@perryvath7617]

My GRX gravel bike with skinny tyres runs out of gears on the road, The bars are a lot wider too, killing aero; but I still love the brakes. My Ultegra road bike with 28mm tyres can’t gear low enough for off-road hills. Neither can match the lowest gearing of my MTB, or the leverage of its bars. Each are tailored for their environments. Choose one… two… or more. But HAVE FUN!

[@mahonah]

Great episode. I would ride either, but if I had a choice, road for road and gravel for gravel.

[@gcn]

That would make sense 😂

[@tinglydingle]

I run Tiagra 4700 on my gravel bike, and I think it's a really solid option because of its price. I'm not a superb rider, so if I'm gonna be slinging my bike around in the mud and gravel, I'm expecting to crash and break a part at some point, probably a shifter or rear derailleur, so the last thing I want is for it to be expensive to replace. Tiagra is cheap enough for it to just be an inconvenience to replace, rather than a financial crisis. 10 speed gives a marginal improvement in clearance through the cassette and derailleur, meaning that fine sand and grit does less damage to the fiddly bits. Gone are the days of Tiagra being a highly compromised option, 4700 genuinely is a high quality groupset, not quite as smooth or fast to shift as Ultegra or whatever, but plenty capable for the majority of riders. I've compared it to my old Ultegra 6700 groupset and the only perceivable differences are that it's marginally harder to shift the front derailleur onto the big ring on Tiagra, and that the Ultegra rim brakes aren't remotely close to the capability of 4720 hydraulic Tiagra brakes. You can fit gravel gearing too. GRX 400 is obviously slightly better for gravel riding, but it seems to always be more expensive. Dunno why.

[@chris1275cc]

FYI Tiagra 4700 (and only 4700) is unique as it has a different pull length (mm per shift) BUT the same gear pull ratio as the 11 speed groups, so you can always drop one of the GRX rear mechs, even the 11 speed ones on your bike if you ever feel you want a clutch or a bigger cassette. You wont find this on any of Shimanos compatibility charts but it works flawlessly (you will still only have 10 gears at the back even with the 11 speed mechs though).

[@tinglydingle]

@@chris1275cc brilliant tip, thank you! I'll keep that in mind next time I stack my rear derailleur!

[@MKNYC_]

My gravel bike is also my commuter........ridiculous? Maybe, but it's nice to consolidate all the bikes I need into one bike. And the GRX feels fine on the road, having the clutch is nice to reduce the chain bouncing when I hit potholes (New york commute).

[@Badger_66]

Great video.Covered a lot of points.Always been a fan of a road bike+Ultegra but seriously thinking a switching to a gravel bike+another set of wheels for the road.

Thanks for this cool video. I have a 2019 Fuji Jari 1.5 gravel bike with a Tiagra 2x groupset. Recently I've upgraded my rear mech with a GRX400 and a bigger cassette - 11-36 (prior to 11-34). Needed some time for fine tuning, but now it's working like a charm. At the end of the season I'll replace the front chain ring and the front mech with either ultegra or grx parts, depending what will be available.

[@morgand1995]

i love me some ultegra. but i'm also old, fat and slow on the hills so my favourite bike still has an old school 105 triple. with cables!

[@benmayes7962]

I found that adding the Ultegra Rx rd to a compact crankset and 11-32 cassette is the perfect road/gravel mix

[@brendonnoble5227]

My endurance bike has 9 speed Sora, which has an advantage as the rear deraillier is compatible with 9speed mountain bike. I can buy a cheap alivio rear mech and a 11-36 or even 11-42 cassette. If not I would go grx all the way. A 42 chain ring with an 11 tooth cog will have you spinning out at around 55-58kmh if you have the power to push that on the flat, well done.

[@cferns5389]

We have both Ultegra R8020 and GRX400 hydraulic brake levers. Not sure if this applies to all but the GRX400 hydraulic levers feels way better than the Ultegra R8020 lever. The GRX have that ‘springy’ lever feel which makes braking much lighter on the hands.

[@knightwish1623]

I'll just stick with my Shimano XT 10-Speed 48-36-26 / 11-36 Schaltwerk, it has all the gears I need 😄😄

[@markomacek920]

Same but 11-42.

[@vixz6441]

I still trust my mullet 2x9 groupset (Sora - Alivio). 48-32t & 11-36t. Still no need for fancy gravel or road groupset

[@vixz6441]

@@craighumphreys9482 It works like a tank, and doesn't break the bank 😀😀

[@simonm1447]

I had a 9 s Alivio derailleur on my fat tire bike, but the shifting was never really smooth. I upgraded it with a Deore 592 derailleur, which is made from steel and aluminum instead of plastic, and is stiffer. Combined with Acera levers (my MTB has the same combination) it shifts gorgeous.

[@micbanand]

The clutch can be disabled, on the GRX. when not needed. Gives a little less tension on the chain. Or do I recall wrong?

[@yislam786ify]

I've got a giant defy series bike, all Ultegra except rear derailleur is grx810. Not sure the logic behind that but it works 50/34 and 11/30 gearing

[@kalleblomkvist4173]

I think Its better getting the GRX Groupset than a Ultegra, as you can ride gravel and road better with grx that ultegra can.

[@Hydrogen101]

My 2020 Roubaix came with a GRC group set and I recently swapped it out for a regular road groupset. Why? Because the GRX was too wonky to fit on my Tacx Neo 2T. It just wouldn’t shift to through all the gears. Once I had it swapped out I had zero issues. No regrets.

[@richardmiddleton7770]

I just wish the GRX shifters/hoods weren't so chunky! Add thick gloves and it really is a struggle to get a good grip of them! I have the new 105 12speed di2 on my road bike and the hoods are so much nicer to hold.

[@GeirEivindMork]

Always wondered if it was anything other than the gear ratio, and this was helpful. Not that I need a gravel bike, but my n+1 itch is acting up.

[@aubreywhitley6889]

Si, I agree with the aesthetics comment. Ultegra is sleeker and GRX has that more exposed bolt look. Especially the crank.

[@chrisridesbicycles]

I have 11-speed Ultegra on the road bike and 12-speed Covid-whatever-is-in-stock-mix on the MTB. If you have got used to 10-51 cassettes on the MTB, GRX looks like a step back. I hope Shimano will finally come up with a good solution for DI2 MTB and make it all compatible.

[@bimblingalong]

it was when a friend pointed out the gear ratios of the GRX might mean that I might not need a triple to get up steep hills with a loaded bike that I considered the 2X GRX groupset

[@kevin._.farren]

Perfectly timed video. I have been agonizing over whether to get a road bike or a gravel bike to cover both disciplines. I was focusing on geometry differences and had a pretty good idea of the group set differences but this video did a fantastic job pointing out each ones advantages and possible disadvantages. My mind is made up, thank you for the quality content as always!!

[@simonrichardson5259]

Which have you gone for?!

[@kevin._.farren]

@@simonrichardson5259 I think the gravel bike is the best option far and away. I am a huge fan of versatility and as I earn my living off the bike I can’t see the minor short comings being an issue. Thank you again for the informative video. I think I knew what I needed to get but sometimes the added perspective from others help you get to the correct decision.