Is Steven Furtick a Modalist?

[@ThatsMyChad]

THATS MOOOOODALISM PATRICK

[@Robofish22877]

I am so glad somebody referenced this!

[@bethanyann1060]

haha!

[@Mygoalwogel]

For those who haven't seen it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYKvl5qXitSEedk

[@Swiftninjatrev]

🤣😂

[@Habackuk24]

There is only one Modalism, but it comes in different forms...

[@LetsGo-ik7zm]

😂😂😂

[@toomanymarys7355]

Oof.

[@thedarthignatius]

They don't believe in modalism. Pastor Furtick struggles at times to make his message clear. I don't think he was trying to teach true modalism

[@Kerosenetrewthe]

Stephen must've missed Heb 13:8 "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."

[@danielgeb2752]

It is funny. When I came back to the faith it was through Elevation Church and now I watch videos from Jordan B Cooper.

[@danielgeb2752]

@Porter Maxwell more Christian than the liberal church I think.

[@davidj.lebaron709]

Even the Catholic church is capable of doing some good!!! Hahaha

[@richardcaraballo1185]

Similar experience here, when I first got saved I listened to alot of Michael Todd. Now I listen to the likes of MacArthur, Washer, Baucham, Lawson, etc.

[@Dilley_G45]

@@richardcaraballo1185 glad you found this channel as a Calvinist

[@barelyprotestant5365]

Great video. Thanks for being an excellent example of critiquing theology without "owning the libs".

[@Outrider74]

You're absolutely right about the problem in evangelicalism, Jordan. What's most concerting about a doctrine like modalism (or Arianism) is that many evangelicals really don't seem to care about whether or not it's scriptural, and it's treated like a minor issue (I've seen the same thing in regard to the presence in communion).

[@jesuschristlivesforever7380]

Dr. Cooper, can you please provide a link that explains the passage in James about justification by works? And how it coincides with justification by grace through faith alone? Thank you, God bless.

[@devinlawson2208]

Check out the Book of Concord Apology of the Augsburg confession by Melanchthon

[@Mygoalwogel]

bookofconcord.org/defense_5_love.php#para123

[@jeremiahb9718]

I’m a Trinitarian, but I’ve been in legitimate dialogue with Oneness believers. Modern Oneness believers say God can manifest as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit simultaneously. God isn’t limited. To act like these people don’t have a Biblical case is being naive. Trinitarians tend to focus on texts that only support their position and ignore the challenging verses. There are some things in the Bible that do make you scratch your head, whether we Trinitarians want to admit it or not. I still think there are issues, but people who just assume these people are just sloppy with the Bible are just wrong. No matter how you slice it, even the doctrine of the Trinity ultimately leads to mystery. And it’s also possible for professing “Trinitarians” who don’t know or understand all the details about the doctrine created by councils and creeds to actually end up believing in Tri-theism, Arianism, or Modalism inadvertently. James White actually wrote “The Forgotten Trinity,” and it was targeted toward professing “Trinitarians” because he felt they didn’t understand the Trinity and would test modalistic if interviewed. Meanwhile, Ligonier Ministries released a survey that found more than 70 percent of “Trinitarians” actually tested to be Arian.

[@toddvoss52]

I don't think they are "just sloppy with the bible" in a sola scriptura sense. What they are "sloppy with" is Sacred Tradition and the Councils - or more often - they are "ignorant of" or "skeptical of" Tradition and the Councils

[@toddvoss52]

Though I do think the latter part of your comment has merit and is very interesting

[@theholyscriptures4276]

You spoke the truth. Amen

[@judithtaylor6713]

I believe what you said but a misunderstanding of the Hebrew verb hayah (being/becoming/effecting) may be a complicating factor.

[@bethanyann1060]

At first I was just gonna say this is a shining example of someone who isn't qualified to be a pastor, for this reason and many others. But I'm seeing lots of comments here saying that Furtick actually should and does know better than to speak this way. Very scary to think that he may be doing this on purpose. I did hear Chris Rosebrough say that Steven Furtick runs with the T.D. Jakes crowd, so that's definitely suspect.

[@lc-mschristian5717]

Thank you for straightening out some of our crooked understanding mlm God's peace be with you.

[@infinitylord08]

another nice video. Would you do a video about other Lutheran youtubers? Thanks.

[@pinkroses135]

I'm curious what he thinks of the opening of the gospel of John

[@maxxiong]

It seems like people just aren't careful about this stuff. The Moody Bible Institute's statement of faith used to start with "God is a Person who has revealed Himself as a Trinity in unity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit-three Persons and yet but one God" (note the confusion between "God is personal" and "God is a Person", as well as the use of "revealed" which enables a potential oneness reading even if the first error is fixed). This has since been fixed by Moody but some places that copied this statement still contains this error. I do always wonder if modalism and Arianism are different categories of false teachings, given that the Bible seems to only talk about faith as it relates to believing in the deity of Christ and in his saving work (Romans 10:9). Modern evangelicals have definitely underemphasized the understanding of the Trinity as a result though.

[@teresakayumy2016]

Please correct a serious error here. TD Jakes is NOT a Modalist. He originated from a Modalist church but was convinced of the orthodox trinitarian position. This is very easy to research and the information is pretty accessible.

[@samuelamare3080]

I am a Trinitarian but I have a question. Did not Jesus Christ change form when he became God Incarnate?

[@Mygoalwogel]

That sounds like more of a Chalcedonian vs Nestorian vs Monophysite vs Miaphysite question. It's a deep rabbit hole of twisty little passages forking this way and that.

[@Mygoalwogel]

Have you read the Chalcedonian Creed/Definition?

[@toomanymarys7355]

He TOOK ON humanity, but the Godhead is eternally the same.

[@bcspride]

This clip has been removed from his sermon on their, Elevation Church, website.

[@Mygoalwogel]

Has anyone here read _The Mind of the Maker_ by Dorothy Sayers? She didn't consider it a perfect analogy to our Triune God, but rather a nifty meditation. Does anyone have any thoughts as to where this analogy breaks down? If somebody actually insisted that it was in perfect agreement with the Creeds, which ancient heresy could we point to in rebuttal?

[@phizzelout]

hey...It's kind of off subject but did you ever sell cough drops? I use to love the cherry flavored ones.

[@jackshadow325]

I'm sure if you ask Furtick directly he would say he's not a Modalist. It's one comment. Furtick's style of preaching is very sloppy. It does not mean he's a heretic.

[@devineroseordialez8566]

Yeah men

[@life-is-excellent8861]

In think that you found the issue. SES is definitely a strong pentecostal seminary that teaches Trinity. The main issue is that some of the employees don't understand doctrine and show errors in expression of their pastors

[@StoicHippy]

I think the generation and procession language included in the creed was to address aspects of Sabellianism, even though the it was drawn up specifically against Arianism.

[@StoicHippy]

@Porter Maxwell no doubt that it was not in original creed, but hard to imagine not adding filioque it if it had been a confession of the west for 500 years. The west dealt with the arianism of the northern invaders as well that I imagine was big influence.

[@thecontender4487]

Well done, Cooper! (I also like the Star Wars figures on the bookshelf...).

[@DeusEstPrimus]

Steven said that knowing full well what it meant. Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Is the flagship seminary of the SBC and fairly prestigious. Last time I checked, they won’t even graduate anyone with a GPA lower then 3.2. I went to Golden Gate seminary ( another SBC Seminary) and we had Christology shoved down our throat. Matter of fact, the 1st topics were almost always dealing with past and current heresies. Furtik new exactly what he was saying. I think Furtik is slowly but surely moving his congregation towards Word of Faith/ Oneness theology. He can’t do it over night. He has to move slowly and methodically and I’m certain that is what he is doing.

[@bethanyann1060]

Wow that's really disturbing.

[@DeusEstPrimus]

@@bethanyann1060 Yes it is, but I'm sure he is doing it. If someone were to catalog his teaching over the past 3 years, i'm sure it would show a consistent trend towards heretical theology.

[@bethanyann1060]

@@DeusEstPrimus That really wouldn't surprise me, seeing as how all he preaches is garbage anyways.

[@johnviens5606]

Some ancient manuscripts add to the end of Mark's Gospel Ch. 16, verses 9-20. In verse 12 it says that "he (Jesus) appeared to two of them in another form ". What does that mean ? In John's Gospel when Mary sees Jesus in the tomb she does not recognize him. On the road to Emmaus Jesus meets two of his followers and they do not recognize him. When Jesus meets the disciples on the beach after his resurrection they see him but do not recognize him. How could those who knew him so well not recognize him ? I am not defending Furtick or Modalism but am wondering what all this means.

[@toomanymarys7355]

He clouded the eyes of his disciples in multiple occasions after his resurrection, only to reveal himself to them after a certain amount of time.

[@jeremiahb9718]

Dr. Cooper, can you explain Matthew 28:20? Jesus told his apostles that he would be with them always, even to the end of the age. So is He with them or is the Holy Spirit actually with them and Jesus is in heaven, and Jesus wasn’t telling the truth? 🤔 “16 But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

[@yunusahmed2940]

Jesus is omnipresent

[@SojournerDidimus]

His wording was very deliberate, he goes on for quite a while on this whole transforming thing. I really doubt this was an omission in his seminary either, even though I have my reservations about the SBC. No, I strongly suspect he put this in his sermon deliberately and his theology went off track after seminary.

[@RichiePGD]

It is not true that oneness theology teaches sequential modalism or that there are not distinctions between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Lots of errors in this video, feel free to reach out to me. Thanks

[@Mygoalwogel]

In oneness theology, what is Jesus primarily doing when Jesus goes away by himself to pray? Is he giving his disciples an example? Is he centering himself? Is he literally praying to the Father? When he says, "My God", does he mean "My God", "Myself", or something else?

[@RichiePGD]

@@Mygoalwogel When the only true God (the Father, John 17:3) became a man (the Son, Luke 1:35, 1 Tim. 3:16), He took on a distinct human consciousness. So Jesus wasn't talking to himself, he was talking to God. In Trinitarianism, when God the Son became a man, did he cease being God in heaven? No he didn't. So God the Son would have a divine consciousness in heaven, but a distinct human consciousness on Earth. Sounds to me like trinitarianism has a modalistic God the son

[@Mygoalwogel]

@@RichiePGD Does Jesus still have a distinct consciousness? To your question: Some Trinitarians would say the incarnation means he was not in heaven. Regardless, Jesus incarnate is in no way a separate consciousness or person from God the Son, second Person of the Trinity, according to Trinitarians. He is the Lamb who was slain *from the foundation of the world.* By the way, you said, "Jesus wasn't talking to himself, he was talking to God." That means Jesus himself = not God. You just denied that Jesus is God. I'm sure it was unintentional. Do you want to rephrase?

[@RichiePGD]

@@Mygoalwogel are you Trinitarian? If you are advocating Jesus ceased being in heaven while on Earth, that is heresy. Because you would be saying Jesus no longer has an attribute he once had. Classical so called "Orthodox" trinitarianism doesn't believe that. If you are saying Jesus gave up omnipresence, then you would be the one saying he is no long God. I meant what I said. Trinitarians use that language also. That Jesus prayed to God, but that doesn't mean they are saying Jesus isn't God. The only true God took on other personhood (man) when HE became flesh. The prayers of Jesus are only consistent in oneness theology if you still want to maintain the full Deity of Christ.

[@Mygoalwogel]

@@RichiePGD Location is not attribute. Being both omnipresent and locally present does not mean separate consciousnesses. Trinitarians would *not contrast* Jesus himself with God as your sentence did. You said, "Jesus *wasn't* talking to himself, he *was* talking to God." Premise 1: Jesus *was not* talking to himself. Premise 2: Jesus *was* talking to God. Conclusion: Jesus himself was not God. Does Jesus still have a distinct consciousness today?

[@LewWhite10]

For sure, I'm a modalist. Yahuah is Yahusha, and Acts 20:28 says the Ruach ha'Qodesh shed His Own blood to purchase us. That is Who we call on for forgiveness, our Deliverer, Yahusha (meaning "I am your Deliverer" in English, based on the Hebrew Name). Read Hebrews 10.

[@Mygoalwogel]

The subject of περιεποιήσατο "He purchased" is the noun, Θεοῦ God, not the noun, τὸ Ἅγιον Πνεῦμα the Holy Spirit. This verse affirms the full Godhood of Christ. The Holy Spirit had placed the pastors of Ephesus as overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which He [God] has purchased with His blood.

[@LewWhite10]

Hebrews 1:1-3 tells the inhabitants of Earth there was only One, and He spoke through the prophets at many times and in many ways, and in these last days, through the body He created (Hebrews 10:5). He wrote about Himself in the scroll (Psalm 40:7), and His Name declares the key of knowledge, which the builders rejected (Psalm 118:22), answering the most important of all questions (Proverbs 30:4). Kings will shut their mouths at the sight of Him (Is. 52:15), and will know that Yahusha is Al Shaddai (Revelation 1:8), the only Deliverer (Is. 43:11-13), when He comes out of His qodesh place (Zech. 2:13) and says, "I am He." (Yn. 8:28)

[@Mygoalwogel]

@@LewWhite10 Yes, Trinitarians accept those verses, too. Nothing particularly modalist about them. Correction: I should have said, the verses you mention are all very very much Trinitarian in content.

[@marekfoolforchrist]

"Changing forms" that's a big red flag

[@resurrectionjose]

+Dr. Jordan B Cooper -- Heresy is alive and well. What else is new under the Protestant sun? :P It's probably beside the point at this stage but the last heretical buffoon I had come across is a KZbinr named *RockingMrE* who put out a trilogy of videos (cited below) back in 2019. I was going to respond to him at length in one of the comment sections but it seems Jay Dyer beat me to it. The latter responded with a -- get this(!) -- a 3+ hour video, and *RockingMrE* responded back with his own video. It was tempting to also respond to Jay Dyer's long-winded diatribe (he also took a pot-shot or three toward Protestants too) but I didn't bother my little head. If anything I merely responded to him on one or two occasions prior to and after his debate with ??? (forgot the guy's name) by engaging in my own bit of sarcasm and mockery. Simply put, he wasted his time and I also recited *ONE* measly journal article that I suggested at first to *RockingMrE* because the latter clearly does not know how to handle the doctrine of the Trinity. For anyone who wants to look further into things with last minute addition of thesis paper. All videos and articles are online. *_"Eternal Nature of Christ"_* & *_"Legitimacy of the Trinity"_* & *_"The Arian Controversy (Arius Was Right)"_* & *_"Response to Jay Dyer. Rocking Philosophy Live"_* *_"Father, Son and Holy Spirit--The One God. An Exploration of the Trinitarian Doctrine of Wolfhart Pannenberg"_* [ATJ; 49-1; Spring 1994; pp. 5-21] by *Chuck Gutenson* *_"From the Father? A Critical Assessment of Wolfhart Pannenberg's Revision of the Classical Conception of the Trinitarian Relations of Origin"_* [M.A.] (1996) by *Robert Tees*

[@russellmiles2861]

who might be a competent conservative theologian?

[@Iffmeister]

He has a Master's of Divinity from Southern Seminary (Baptist). Surprisingly he isn't a Calvinist but more Arminian Baptist.

[@1689solas]

Yeah, he's a heretic man. Has nothing to do with the seminary.

[@shawndurham297]

He loves the applause of men

[@Iffmeister]

@Porter Maxwell this has nothing to do with the seminary, as Dylan said. SBTS doesn't teach this whatsoever. I personally think he just misspoke and am choosing to be gracious here, but either way SBTS cannot be blamed.

[@Iffmeister]

@Porter Maxwell how exactly is it modernist man? Do you even know anyone who goes there or how it functions? I'm not a Baptist but know folks in that realm. If you mean "they are teaching heresies cause they are Calvinist and deny baptismal regeneration" that's not really heresy that's "error" in my view. I need to know your framework

[@shawndurham297]

Ify Nsoha Not me. He’s said foolish stuff like this too many times for me to believe that he misspoke.

[@Nnamwerd]

This is why I’d be very hesitant to record sermons if I were a pastor. It’s hard to talk about the relationships between the persons of the Trinity without falling into heresy, especially if you’re in an evangelical/ charismatic environment.

[@devinlawson2208]

This is why we are to train men in Trinitarian Theology

[@pateunuchity884]

Awe, C’mon Werd. You know the Trinity is lit. We should as teachers have a doctrine that corresponds with biblical credibility and the church a Father’s as a whole.

[@1517FILMS]

This is why we don’t try to explain a mystery!

[@johnsund3702]

Great video Pastor Jordan! I think the best concise definition of the Trinity is found in Webster's Dictionary --"The union of three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, in one Godhead". Although I was confirmed as a Lutheran, I once got involved with a UPC church in Lawton, Oklahoma, back in 1976. I wasn't to keen on doctrine at that time, but eventually came to see the errors of Modalism. God is faithful to lead us into, or back into, doctrinal soundness.

[@at6098]

Dr. Cooper very well done! also furtick's mentor/someone that furtick looks up to is td jakes, he has admitted that in sermons/segments/interviews

[@alessiorando100]

If you throw away the traditional Christian Creeds, that's the result.

[@tre.j3589]

You’ve got it a bit twisted there: Oneness Pentecostalism doesn’t teach what you’ve described. You did point out (by the way- thanks) that there are different forms of Modalism - different secs teach and believe different views - but Oneness Pentecostals - as in The United Pentecostal Church International - we don’t just make up things as we see them… we teach DIRECTLY out of Gods Word - the Bible - we let scripture speak for itself - we let God speak for Himself. Usually people who attack our doctrinal views label us as Sabellianist but we’re not… The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit do not cease to be while One or the Other is at work. They co-exist and co-operate. God does this while at the same time maintaining the integrity of the Shema, Deuteronomy 6:4-9 - Hear O’ Israel, the Lord is ONE. We too must maintain the integrity of Scripture, and what God has declared about Himself. When Jesus was Begotten of the Father, the Father did not cease to take part in the salvation of the world, but He (God, the Father) was in (the man) Christ Jesus reconciling the world unto Himself (2 Corinthians 5:19), Jesus- now ascended to the Father, and sitting at His right hand (Jesus is God’s right arm of strength & power in action), His work of redemption is complete (the finished work of Christ) - and as He explains, he had to be removed from the world so that the Spirit could come - (John 7, 14, 16, 16 etc. etc. etc.). Jesus teaches us HIMSELF of the relationship between He, the Father, and the Holy Spirit. He says, I must go… you see now but soon you will not see me (paraphrasing), but then you will see me etc. He was speaking of himself being removed from the world and returning to the Father, but also- returning back again to earth, on the Day of Pentecost as the Holy Spirit. He is very clear and plain about this… elsewhere throughout the Bible, scripture is very clear and plain about this. We don’t teach anything outside of the Scriptures… we stick to what the Bible says, what the apostles & prophets said, and what God says of Himself - He says He is numerically ONE, that there’s no God before, beside, or after Him and that’s what we believe and teach- we take what God says of Himself and we look at the Scriptures through that lens- and not through the lens of the early Catholic Church, the early church fathers - who by the way couldn’t agree on anything - but nothing has changed… We don’t teach some creed, or church philosophy, we teach God’s Word as it is meant to be taught and understood- and our beginning point is Deuteronomy 6:4-9- the Shema. Personally, I don’t have any issue with anyone who fails to have a complete understanding of who God is or on the Godhead. Jesus acknowledges that there are some who aren’t “of this way.” And He said to His disciples, leave them alone. Thats the position that I take. However, my one and only issue with the doctrine of the Trinity is that it undermines the integrity of baptism in Jesus Name- and that’s where I get upset- because the scripture, rather one believes Oneness theology or the Trinity, scripture is precisely clear and consistent that baptism must be done in “Jesus Name.” When any other gospel is preached, I get upset… and the doctrine of the Trinity trivializes Jesus Name baptism, and the Bible is crystal clear on this issue- that cannot be denied or debated. Lord bless

[@HesDylan]

Guys..... its just like premillennialism, postmillianlism etc.. The common core of different aspects is we all believe Jesus died for us and rose again on the 3rd day. Everyone who has different interpretations of the 1000 year reign, how people explain that God head thats our diversity but we have a common core that comes with a salvation we cant lose. I dont believe since you interpret the God head differently that God wont work in your life and youll go to hell. Everyone believes they have it right but if you think about it, its just the huge mystery of God that we will never truly know. Oneness, modalism... they all believe in God The Father, Holy Spirit and Jesus but just interpret it differently. If its not a salvation issue then why bug about it? Honestly it's not edifiying at all.

[@Mygoalwogel]

If, "why bug about it" is true, then why not just go with trinitarians who are historically, geographically, and numerically the overwhelming majority? Why create division by questioning it? Because truth matters!

[@toomanymarys7355]

The non-trinitarians always end up with wildly heretical doctrines that ride in on the back of their non-trinitarian theology. It isn't like eschatology.

[@cynthiaerickson3646]

Why is this any new revelation?steve is a motivation speaker,not a shepard of Christ flock

[@paulniewulis9189]

Exactly!

[@pngballar24]

Appreciate the channel, just don't want people to get confused: TD Jakes is not a Modalist, though he was saved in a Oneness Pentecostal Church and first began ministering there, he is on record as holding to an Orthodox view of the trinity. Also, not that I am necessarily a fan of Elevation's style/theology/climate, but Furtick may have simply misspoken, and been thinking of John 14.18, "I will not leave you as orphans, I will come to you". If he was hard line on believing that Jesus was simply changing forms, as you clearly demonstrate, he would be in error. However, from a soundbite it's hard to tell whats going on (as you rightfully point out towards the end), and not hard to imagine that he's trying to emphasize God with us - as Paul does frequently throughout his epistles and famously in Galatians 2.20 and Philippians 1.23. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ On another note, I would really enjoy having a cup of coffee with you and learning about ecumenicalism, scholasticism, and the role of orthodoxy! Keep up the good work.

[@yeshuamaranatha1492]

Did you know TJ Jakes was the teacher of Steven Fertick. Stevens favorite pastor is TJ jakes.

[@OnBelayClimbOn]

Typical of non creedal churches; solid explanation. Very God of Very God Begotten and not created.

[@danielpia7711]

I have family that refuse to believe he's modal. They say he's not really meaning what it sounds like. But it just so happens that TD JAKES is his mentor hmmm

[@Iffmeister]

I'll also note that I love the Bible Project, their videos are great. But their comment section is full of heretics 😂😂😂😂 there's a sixth month long thread about the Trinity there it's a mess. Arians and Modalists all over the place.

[@Liminalplace1]

Id seriously doubt Steve Furltick is a modalist. TRY listening to the whole sermon in context.. its not on the Trinity or the nature of God. I can remember one of my Anglican bishops preaching on Trinity Sunday after the congregation reading the Anthanius Creed giving an illustration of the "Trinity" that he said "was the best lllustration of the trinity [ he] had heard". That a man can be both a father and a son at the same time. I was astounded that with his masters in theology he didnt realise that it was far from the BEST illustration of the trinity but rather a good illustratiion of modalism.. Im pretty sure he wasnt teaching modalism to a church that was named Holy Trinity Anglican and im sure he wasnt trying to be controversial. Its a mistake in communication because if you arent focused upon the potential heresies you dont make distinctions clear. Yes it does highlight a lack of theological precision in the pulpits today.. but i think even that quote from Furltick has a different nuance. HERESY HUNTING is more a problem today than the actual heresies. i seriously doubt those HERESY HUNTERS are indeed faithful to God but divisive only. Please dont be taken up with the critics. I refer ppl to your site for balance. Please keep that balance brother...here is a link a balanced view based upon the whole sermon in context. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYq9opWhd9SCetE For a better take on the issue than put here. The creeds emerged out of a need to clarify teaching because of threat.

[@hansimgluck4965]

Cooper on Furtick - kind of like Mozart on Bieber. As for MDivs, whether from "prestigious" institutions or some other kind - there is no shortage of people with these who are not even competent to teach Sunday School to five year olds. Besides, if Furtick's alma mater is in the business of training women for the pastoral ministry, just what is this so-called "prestige" of theirs? If they're okay with that, what else are they okay with? As for this notion that Scripture does not teach the Trinity other than implicitly, this is just part of the latter-day folly that has been adopted by even serious Lutherans who have swallowed modern critical scholarship hook line and sinker every bit as much as the institutions that crank out the Furticks of this world. Since North American Lutherans en masse chucked the Traditional Text of the Church in favor of Nestle Aland in the 20th Century, and thus the Comma Johanneum too - and the crystal clear patristic support for the Comma along with it all, some are now in the weird position of stating that we have to infer something that Scripture spells out word for word. All of this is because of an utterly messed-up modern scholarship that teaches that the Word of God is to be determined by spurious codices and extant fragments of rotten paper. Brilliant.

[@leonmatata3722]

I really like this doctor Cooper. The fact that you not scared to call out these false teachers toprotect your flock. Also im looking into Lutheranism!

[@jeremiahrowesr.3130]

Here's what the Trinity is guys the Trinity is this you have God who is the father he is also the son and he is also the Holy Spirit. However unitarians and oneness Pentecostals, either say Jesus was created by God the father or oneness Pentecostal say that Jesus is God the Father etc. However Jesus Is God Jesus can forgive sin as God can do, Jesus claimed equality with God the father because he said God was his own father making himself equal to God the Father, in John 17:5 Jesus says that he shares the same Glory with the father before the world was. And he also says in John 10:30 verse 33 that I and the father are one it's not saying in that scripture at all that he is the father, it's saying that they share the same nature in essence as one another. Jesus said in John 6:46 that no one has ever seen God the father at any time except for the son of man who is Jesus, so Jesus shares the same attributes as God the father and as the Holy Spirit. Acts 5:3-4 we know that the holy spirit is God because Peter says to ananias and a nice way has Satan given you the ability to lie to the Holy Spirit now the Jehovah's witnesses think the holy spirit is a force not a separate person of the trinity. However Peter finishes in verse 4 by saying ananias you have not only lied to men but to God he just claimed Peter did that the holy spirit is God in Ephesians 4:30, the Bible says do not grieve the holy spirit of God so who is the Holy Spirit? That is God. So was Jesus created by the father no he was not created by the father because, John 1:3 says that Jesus is the Creator and that nothing came into existence that has come into existence apart from him. Colossians 1:15 says he meaning Christ he is in the image of the invisible God, and he's the first born overall creation Jehovah's witnesses think the word first born means first created when it does the word first born In Greek means prototokos preeminence. For oneness theologians, Jesus is not the father, he is distinct from the father the holy spirit is neither Jesus or the father Jesus said that he would send a helper and he would be with us always, the Holy Spirit who is also God is distinct from the father and the son but they all three share the same nature and essence and have the same Divine loving relationship even before the world began. All Doctrine Must Be Derived From The Bible At the outset we must state that any belief about the Trinity must come from the Bible and the Bible alone. It is the only authoritative source to discover answers about God and His nature. The Bible, by itself, must answer the question as to whether or not there is such a thing as a Trinity. Tradition or the pronouncements of some church authority does not make the doctrine true. The Trinity Is Only Known By Revelation In addition, the doctrine of the Trinity could only be known by divine revelation- it cannot be known by human reason. The only way in which the inner working of God could be known is that God revealed it to humanity. The Bible says the mind of the Lord is unknown to humanity. For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Trinity is a doctrine that God has revealed to humankind through the Scriptures. It is not the result of human reasoning. The Definition Of The Trinity The doctrine of the Trinity, simply stated, is as follows: The Bible teaches that there is one eternal God who is the Creator and Sustainer of the universe. He is the only God that exists. However, within the nature of this one God are three persons, or three centers of consciousness - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three Persons are co-equal and co-eternal. They are also distinguishable or distinct from one another. These three distinct Persons are the one God. Everything that is true about God is true about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Reverse Is Not True While the Bible teaches that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God it is wrong to say that God is the Father, God is the Son, or God is the Spirit. God's nature consists of three distinct Persons. Therefore it is incorrect to limit God to one particular member of the Trinity. Scripture makes the following points about the nature of God. 1. There Is Only One God That Exists Foundational to the doctrine of the Trinity is the biblical teaching of the existence of only one God. No other divine being has real existence. Trinitarians, or those who believe in the Trinity, are emphatic that only one God exists. Furthermore the essence of God cannot be divided. God, by nature, is spirit - He has no physical form. It is not possible to divide up spirit. The God of the Bible is one single eternal, infinite being who is indivisible - impossible to divide. 2. There Are Three Distinct Persons Who Exist (The Father, Son, And The Holy Spirit) Scripture is also clear there are three distinct persons who exist - God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. For example, Jesus prayed to God the Father, He did not pray to Himself. At His baptism the voice of the Father spoke in an approving way of Jesus - it was not Jesus who spoke of Himself. Therefore the three Persons should not be confused with one another. 3. Each Of These Three Persons Is Called God The Bible teaches that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Each are called God, each possess attributes that only God can possess, each perform works that only God can perform. 4. The Three Persons Are The One God (The Trinity) The conclusion to the above facts is as follows: if only one God exists, and if there are three distinct persons who are all called God, then the three persons must be the one God. This is the doctrine of the Trinity. Some Important Clarifications Of The Doctrine Of The Trinity There are some much-needed clarifications that should be made about the Trinity. They include the following. They Are Distinct In Their Roles The members of the Trinity have distinct roles. Although they are all equally God they have different functions within the Godhead. The Father is the one who sends while the Son is the One who is sent. The Holy Spirit is also sent to testify of Jesus. Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit are equal with God the Father in nature. However they are subordinate in their relationships. Subordinate in a relationship does not mean lesser in character. Each Member is Equal In Importance All three Persons of the Trinity are of equal importance. Christians often overlook the importance of Father and the Holy Spirit because Jesus, the Son, is where the faith centers. He is the one who became a human being, suffered for the sins of humanity, and rose from the dead. He is the one who will return to the earth and set up His kingdom. Eternal life is based upon how we view Him. Consequently Jesus Christ is central to the heart of the believer. However we must realize that each member of the Trinity is of equal importance. They are equal in dignity, majesty, glory, and power but different in the roles in which they have. There Are No Analogies In Nature Finally, the idea of three centers of consciousness or three distinct personalities has no analogy for us as humans. All attempts to equate the Trinity with some analogy will miserably fail. This includes trying to compare the Trinity to a human being who has intellect, feeling, and will. This is not the same as the Triune God who has three distinct centers of consciousness. Therefore it is best to admit that the Trinity has no analogy with which we can compare it. Summary The truth of the Trinity must be decided solely on what the Bible has to say about the subject. The doctrine of the Trinity can only be known by divine revelation - human reason cannot discover anything about the personal nature of God. When we look at what the Scripture has to say we discover that one God exists in three Persons - the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is found by noting the following points: only one God exists; there are three distinct Persons in the New Testament - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; each of these three distinct Persons is called God. Therefore the three distinct Persons must be the one God. The members of the Trinity have different roles though they are equal in character. Each member of the Trinity is equally important although Christians tend to emphasize Jesus, the Second Person of Trinity. There is no real analogy to the Trinity to which humans can compare the Trinity.

[@matthewwilliamson484]

I agree that a lot of Christians don't know the difference sometimes. But I would say that the southern Baptist convention would have taught this stuff. It maybe be more true that he doesnt want to believe it

[@harleywykes4971]

TD jakes recently became a Trinitarian in the last few years

[@DrJordanBCooper]

I wasn't aware. Thanks.

[@crit_cannon1090]

Gonna need some proof of that my friend. I thought steven got this heresy from TD

[@pilgrims4727]

Everytime TD Jakes preaches a modalist view, he claims he's a Trinitarian afterwards, to deflect criticism. Don't be gullible.

[@cayetano6547]

@@pilgrims4727 When he was pinned down years ago, he said "I agree with calling them different persons but I prefer to call them manifestations" hahahha

[@lpembrey]

Claiming to be Trinitarian, but continuing to use modalistic language isn’t becoming a Trinitarian.

[@peterguyot9724]

'God is love' and love is expressed between more than one person. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit love each other for all eternity. Thank you for you clear explanation of what modalism is and why it should be avoided

[@BigDave0908]

Furtick apparently has a theological degree ... but yep, he sure sounds like a modalist.

[@beautifulfeetpreachingsc]

His secondary degree s from the T.D. Jakes school of heresyology

[@bobhawkins2997]

Good video Dr Cooper!

[@thecontender4487]

My daughter works in the graduate department of a major university. She said, "Every year we give doctorates to idiots." Hmmm...

[@JRS1121960]

Trinity is an intellectual attempt to explain a spiritual God, the tares in the wheat and the tares parable. The spiritual wheat understand the spiritual identity of God. Like all the sinful people on earth, they claim those following the truth are the cult. But that is OK since God said He will separate the tares from the wheat and burn them in the end. Again those who are in Satan's intellectual darkness will accuse those spiritually in the light of being the cult. Said a more simplified manner, the litmus test for membership in the tares is that you pledge allegiance to the Trinity.

[@justnoted2995]

Yeah, while you are splitting hairs, Stephen is winning souls for Christ

[@catheylynnd7373]

If he has no understanding of God then he was not called to preach. Wolf in Sheep's clothing. Your making excuses

[@obg7]

⚠️ Brother. I appreciate this video. Well presented, and I'm praying these leaders repent before night coming. However, I have to say that you give these false teach (pastors as you referenced them) too much credit by saying that they do not know the basics of Scripture to speak such heresy. Jesus was plain in speech to say there are hirelings and there are wolves. Neither are of Him. One yields to incoming wolves and submits to their will. The other simply is carrying out Satan's will. These people aren't ignorant of Scripture. It is a choice to teach as they do. They have rejected the Holy Spirit and are of themselves and demons, doing as they please ALL THE WHILE truly believing the deception that they are of Christ Jesus. Sound like some people in the past who thought it was right to crucify Someone for Yahweh? I do not say this boastful. This is a dangerous time we are in. Souls are more than ever on the line and being attacked. It is gracious to say these pastors do not know. A choice was made, and the people are deceived. The great apostasy is happening and we need to not temper that truth to not offend within the "Body". We are to expose falsehood, for the salvation from the deserved eternal lake of fire is the cost. We are approaching unprecedented dark times and the war is not with flesh and blood. The Lord has warned if possible, Satan will deceive even the elect, AND HE HAS BEEN AND WILL CONTINUE. A whole religion being taught by leaders for centuries that it is not only okay to relax Jesus's 10 commandments (Matthew 5 & 7). They also have taught the world to do the same by their indoctrination and example. This man sadly is a false teacher, and the worse thing coming to humanity is not even the great Tribulation. It is the strong delusion Jesus will put on mankind to keep them believing the lies they've accepted that is worse. As we go into the Tribulation, the truth will be all the more hated from within the religion. Hell will break loose, and the people will all the more not heed sound doctrine, because they can't. Holy Spirit removes restraints, and YOLO takes on a whole new meaning for the world. Just as the Lord shut the eyes and closed the ears of the Jews for a time (which too many Christians scratch their heads about why Jews don't accept Jesus today), so the Lord is going to do the same to the religion and the world. Judgment begins with the House of God. Head first, fully confident into the hands of a wrathful God many are going, and they will have the audacity to converse with Jesus about what all they did despite disobeying Him. Let our hearts break for these successful attacks of devils in making such a deceptive vehicle with religipn, and may that drive us to total repentant obedience to the Holy Spirit to take the written Word out to the world AND INTO THE RELIGION to warn the people of the deception and coming Tribulation. We overcome Satan by the Blood of the Lamb and the word of OUR testimony of who He is in our lives. Night is coming. Let go of religion for it is full of doctrines and traditions of men and demons, as Paul, the apostles, the prophets and the Lord Jesus Almighty warned. Read and consume the written Word with the Holy Spirit. He will teach you, and you'll recognize who is of Him and just how many are not. Work while it is day. ❤

[@DJG11]

You notice that Jesus equates himself with the spirit in the passage in the same way you tried to make a distinction "John 16 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ²⁷ For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. ²⁸ I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. Came out from, came forth from - that's proceeding. So, really lame attempt with that distinction. AlsoJesus said the spirit was already dwelling with them but would be in them.... How was he dwelling with them? In the form of Jesus who had the spirit of Christ which proceeds from the Father and would be in those who believed that Jesus came forth from the Father - the same Father who dwelt in Christ though he had emptied himself of the glory of the Father, being subjected to powers...... anyway, the Spirit could not be sent from the Father until Christ returned to the Father and sent "another comforter" who would dwell in us as the Father dwelt in Jesus - through the Spirit that was upon him. Being inside us is a different form than being with us on Jericho drive, or Emaeus blvd, or Mt Olivette, or in a fishing boat on lake Geneserrete People always be nitpicking on things no-one can explain and bashing those that seem to be in line with God's purpose: “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.” - John 15:5 (KJV) Seems to me the pharisees are at it again - thinking they do God's service by casting true disciples out of the church.

[@dan6361]

Well said

[@Iffmeister]

No. But he was super lazy with his preaching point. Their churches statement of faith is orthodox protestant Baptist. They are a little bit charismatic as well. It's incredible how he graduated from SBTS but...said that lol

[@marekfoolforchrist]

orthodox protestant Baptist but the preacher is a modalist?

[@Iffmeister]

@@marekfoolforchrist he's not a modalist. He was just not thinking in this sermon. I think he didn't intend to teach that, but he is being squishy in his preaching.

[@marekfoolforchrist]

@@Iffmeister You keep asserting that here on the thread but you haven't given any other evidence besides the assertion "he is not a modalist". He is clearly teaching modalism.

[@Iffmeister]

@@marekfoolforchrist peep his churches statement of faith. It's orthodox. Furtick does this all the time, he contradicts himself and uses hyperbole to make these loose points and everything like that. I am not advocating for him.

[@Iffmeister]

@@marekfoolforchrist he was being uncareful.

[@micahmatthew7104]

He probably doesn't even know what modalism is...

[@clairekarlsson904]

I live in Charlotte, NC. Thank you for this video. He is a complete fraud...

[@redbearwarrior4859]

Premise1 A is B. Premise2 C is B. Conclusion A is C. Premise1 Bruce Wayne is the richest man in Gotham. Premise2 Batman is the richest man in Gotham. Conclusion Bruce Wayne is Batman. Premise1 The Son is God. Premise2 The Holy Spirit is God. Conclusion The Son is the Holy Spirit.

[@JoeGeorge319]

Premise 1: X is the Son of the Z family Premise 2: Y is the Father of the Z family Conclusion: X is Y? Nonsense. And one could respond and say, "oh but youre specifying persons in the Z family which requires distinction" exactly, the same is true for the Trinity.

[@redbearwarrior4859]

@@JoeGeorge319 if God = family then the Son is not God but merely a part of God. It would be like saying that Luke Skywalker is the Skywalker family. Which is false. Luke Skywalker is a part of the Skywalker family. So you are denying that the Son is God. Are you sure you want to go there?

[@JoeGeorge319]

@@redbearwarrior4859 the Son is of or simply is the Z family as is the Father. And this distinction and yet inclusion is highlighted so clearly in John 1:1

[@redbearwarrior4859]

@@JoeGeorge319 if the Son "simply is the Z family as is the Father" then Premise1 the Father is the Z family. Premise2 the Son is the Z family. Conclusion the Father is the Son.

[@JoeGeorge319]

@@redbearwarrior4859 ah, begging the question. Your point still- makes no sense. Which is why the transitive property of congruence is garbage when utilized outside its intended means and renounced as heresy. There is a sense in which Christ is one with the Father, and yet separate. And this is clearly identified in Scripture time and time again.