Is the Cinematic Studio Series Worth It In 2024?

[@AlonsoJoaquinComposer]

Hey man, nice video I'm a big fan of your work! Fun fact: Trackdown studios actually sounds great in live recordings, the new World of Warcraft stuff (seriously it's amazing) and it's huuuge, if you look at the floor plans it's bigger than Air Lyndurst, however it lacks the height other studios have and that's why it can feel smaller, however the main reason these libraries sound the way the sound is because of the engineering behind. They used some really strange mic setups, for instance they didn't set up a decca tree which is pretty much a standard for recording orchestras. You can see it in their website, there's just the spot mics, and a "main" mic but no Decca. In their own words they "essentially did a decca" but that implies it's not quite a decca, like a friend said, if it doesn't sound like a decca it most likely isn't one. Another example of less than ideal recordings is CSB, the close mics are 1 mono spot, which is less than ideal. In fact spots are rarely used in live settings when you have a room of this size that can sound great. That's the main reason these libraries are so hard to mix and blend well with other stuff (and even on their own). A really talented composer I know is recording their first library in there, it's called "Javelin Strings" and it sounds beautiful, the engineering is gorgeous, here's some examples and you can hear the individual mics in the website. kzbin.infoxaJsXO7-J2A kzbin.info/www/bejne/aHKcfaePopaeotk Great video btw

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@@AlonsoJoaquinComposer I really appreciate the correction on this! Pinning so people can see the accurate info on why the library sounds the way it does.

[@goodbear_goodblair]

This also makes sense as to why you can get a good sound from it, it’s just not straightforward at all!

[@AlonsoJoaquinComposer]

@@goodbear_goodblair Oh hahaha it was not meant to be a correction! just some info I got from some of some really talented folks who work in the industry and know this stuff wayyy better than I do. By the way, those macros you have for mic mixes look absolutely insane, now I really want to build something similar for my own template in the future, it's a really neat concept

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@@AlonsoJoaquinComposer it was a pain to make, but it’s a joy to use! Haha

[@CinematicSymphonyOrchestra]

Long time CS user. Great video showcasing the diversity of Cinematic Studio. I love the mic positions and flexibility it gives us when mixing. I will also be using these libraries for years to come!

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@@CinematicSymphonyOrchestra thanks for the comment! These libraries are awesome. Definitely not everything you need, but SO MUCH good stuff!

[@Maplefoxx-vl2ew]

the first cons you listed is the reason i prefer them actually, I prefer they are not having the big orchestral room sound but are sill not chamber strings size.

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@@Maplefoxx-vl2ew The first con I mentioned was the timbre, not as in the room size, but more like the eq of how the instruments sound. They’re not quite pleasant and requires a lot of eq work in order to get to sound pleasing. The pinned comment above does a great job of explaining why that is! In general I totally agree with you. I love that the library doesn’t feel huge. It makes it easier to adjust. I’m able to finagle it into a symphonic or chamber sound, or even a pop sound when needed!

[@Maplefoxx-vl2ew]

@@goodbear_goodblair do you know what is Room Widener plugin from JD audio? it will help with CSS a lot, try it if you have not already, i also copied his CSS eq settings from his videos lolol, he's a mixer/master guy for live orchestras, he's on here on youtube too. I subbed you and will check out more vids soon. i'm learnign to be a game composer too. i learned my DAW and software really good, grinding piano theory now, then my orchestration courses start. I learned Fmod and triggers and layered and progression stuff already, I make my own Celeste mods, it can really help with learning to game composiution and fmod applications actually. i really owe them a lot, the modded community i mean, they are awesome, lots of good inspiring composers there too

[@charlesyateschalfant]

It has been and will long be a standard in the industry. These libraries are superb.

[@SharmaYelverton]

I used spifire symphonic orchestra series for years before getting cinematic studio series. And my god CC is so much easier to write with, especially if your writing anything remotely intrecate or complexe. With spitfire its hard to play agile lines that aren't all spicatto, its hard to combine different articulations and have them seamlessly sound like one part. And theres a lot of anomolies with timing and tuning and ambient sounds. The anomolies can sound good and add realism but often they get in the way and slow you down. Spitfire does sound great. If you just are taking a single patch spitfire usually sounds amazing. But that room sound crrats a lot of build up in the mix once you start layering a lot of patches. I now use CC serries for my main writing and treat spitfire more as a layering library. Adding a few spitfire patches to a mockup adds some air and lushness. Writing only with spitfire my mockups would get washy and lack definition. Its hard to take out that room.

[@goodbear_goodblair]

Again, I think it can come down to what you're willing to do to get the sound you want. If you listen to LOTR, it's pretty darn washy! Which is awesome if you're scoring a multi million dollar fantasy epic, but not so great for a lot of other purposes! haha. Playing with the mic signals on spitfires chamber strings has yielded some absolutely beautiful results for me in the past!

[@elijahnunez4780]

can we please get a tutorial on your macro mixer environment to control mic mixes?

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@@elijahnunez4780 I would absolutely love to do that. I have almost 0 idea how to explain what I’ve done without it being an incredibly boring and rambl-y 50 minute video. Haha

[@M2Texas]

I literally just bought the whole series Friday. I haven't been composing for long, literally just a few months now, but the thing I liked most about it is, well, basically what you liked: I like that I can (have to) shape it for each piece. It's dry enough and clean enough that I think I can make it sound however I want with some work. I may be wrong of course since I've literally never used it yet (holiday weekend with the family comes before the hobby) but the dozens and dozens of different iterations that I've heard it create over the years leads me to hope/believe that I can shape it to my needs for each project. It doesn't read my mind, and I accept that. It isn't as instantly useful for specific needs like maybe Spitfire or Performance Samples, but it is, with work, usable for most if not all of those cases. At least I hope so because even on sale $1200 is a huge chunk of my budget. I have to admit that I almost bought the Berlin series instead because the sale was huge but it just sounded too... Teldex. It was just too roomy and that seemed like it would be harder to control for a wide variety of projects. Thank you for your thoughts and your channel. And making me feel better about spending all my christmas money on my nasty habit. 😆

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@@M2Texas 😂😂😂 fwiw, I think CSS is absolutely the right call!! OT stuff is interesting, but it never really caught my attention enough to jump on it!

[@BIG_PASTA]

Thanks great video! Do you just put the midi on grid and not offset with -track delay? I noticed you said the timing is great but I feel like I hear a big thing with their libraries is the variable “latency” when using their legatos? Thanks again :)

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@@BIG_PASTA yes, I program track delay into my template, and I load each articulation separately. I hate to be dogmatic, but this is something you should do with basically any library, as each articulation is going to have different needs as far as delay compensation goes. I understand the desire to do things like articulation switches, but it will never end up giving correct timing. (Unless another super complex system is utilized) I absolutely should have mentioned that in the video, but I will say - this is not unique to CSS. Any midi library of any kind will need delay compensation, since the playback will (and can) never be instantaneous. Also, almost no library I’ve come into contact with has needed less that -20ms, and most need in the range of -80 to -200ms. Depending on what settings you use, CS libraries tend to need exactly that!

[@BIG_PASTA]

@ thanks so much for the reply! Is the delay offset noted anywhere in the documentation for CSS? I find it a bit overwhelming to try to figure it out by ear because im always questioning if it’s correct lol. I love libraries that show the offset value right in the GUI :) Any insight you can give is appreciated 🙏🏼

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@@BIG_PASTA yes! The track delays are noted in the manual, and Alex tends to get back to any customer service replies fairly quickly if you want to double check about anything!

[@BIG_PASTA]

@@goodbear_goodblairoh awesome! Much appreciated.

[@tonyr.4778]

Surprised you didnt discuss reverb (cinematic rooms) or combining libraries such as vista or pacific and css to get a sound that doesn't have the cons you mention.

[@goodbear_goodblair]

I use Berlin Studio and Cinematic Rooms, but they’re additive, they don’t really do anything to “fix” the sound, especially of the main mix. Trying to drown that main mic mix in reverb basically just washes everything out. It’s not a super pleasant sound. But I absolutely would love to do a video at some point about reverb on its own. As far as layering, I think most folks are privy to the idea that layering helps mockups in general, though I find sometimes that it can make a mockup sound a bit dull, and lose it’s detail. This mock-up was unique in that it passed a minimum bar of realism, and it is completely one library (minus percussion). You’re absolutely right though - layering pacific or spitfire chamber or symphonic sounds really nice with css!!

[@fishoscine1220]

I just bought everything by CSS two weeks ago. It's incredible!! One other con you didn't mention is obviously the no percussion. I would also say compared to the OT Berlin series, it doesn't have the same scope of articulation upgrades. Great video btw.

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@@fishoscine1220 that’s a good point! I didn’t quite hold that against them just yet because they’re supposed to be dropping percussion sometime in the next 20 years 😅 it’s been a tab on there website for like 5 years now! Haha. It should be out eventually.

[@fishoscine1220]

@goodbear_goodblair 🤣🤣🤣 I'll hold my breath so. 😜 Am I right in thinking the libraries are 7? Years old now? Also, have they ever updated the libraries in that time?

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@ I’m not sure exactly how old they are, but yeah, about 5 or more years tracks! And yes, there have been meaningful free updates in that time!

[@fishoscine1220]

@@goodbear_goodblair Thanks for the info, appreciate that. All the best. 🙏🏼

[@SharmaYelverton]

Well the strings came out first and then the others followed in subsequent years.

[@agustofwind4168]

Awesome video! I'm a beginner composer, and I know you mentioned that CSS is hard to work with in the beginning so I was wondering if there were any really good libraries that are more intuitive for beginners like myself that are worth the money. I am currently using the Cineseries and also Komplete 14 Ultimate.

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@@agustofwind4168 you know - I’d honestly say get CSS and subscribe to East west’s composer cloud. I know that I said css has some peculiarities, but if you just use the mic mix at first, then it’s a fantastic library to learn the ropes, and it does sound good (not great) out of the box!

[@soundbeatproductions5732]

May I ask what percussion Library you're using? Thanks so much for the video.

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@@soundbeatproductions5732 A bit of abbey road one, and a little bit of Hollywood opus!

[@soundbeatproductions5732]

@goodbear_goodblair Cool! thanks so much.

[@danielecohen2266]

Hey this is a great video and just what I was looking for. I am looking for a new library with a tight string sound and was looking at getting cinematic studio strings. I have Spitfire studios and Albion one not pleased with how tight I can get the shorts.

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@@danielecohen2266 you can definitely achieve tighter sounds with CSS. And layering it with their solo strings can get an even tighter drier sound. Just remember to play with the mic positions a bit using a well mixed piece as reference. They’re almost never what you want out of the box!

[@danielecohen2266]

@@goodbear_goodblairthank you! I think I’m gonna go for it especially with the current sale. I appreciate the reply.

[@danielecohen2266]

What do you think about Audio Imperia Nucleus for beginner composers? I’m looking for a tight modern sound for hybrid scores

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@danielecohen2266 it seems like they’re asking about $450 for it at the moment… i think that for that money, you should get the Cinematic Stuido Series! But if it’s not on sale now, then it seems like a fine option. I have AI’s Chorus, and on one hand it’s REALLY good, but on the other, I don’t find the programming to be seamless. I don’t know if that’s indicative of the rest of their offerings, but I haven’t heard any of my composer friends rave about their stuff! I’d say it’s fine, but just fine! I’d spend an extra couple hundred bucks on the next better option which you’re gonna end up buying sooner or later anyway. Save yourself $450.

[@MealsBeast]

Great video!! Have you used vsl Synchron brass and what do you think about it? I mainly use SSB and CSB for brass but to me it sounds like Synchron is more consistent over all, I just want something that I can write with and it sounds great, I don't have to do much spacial mixing and I can get a big realistic agile sound out of the box. It sounds like it doesn't have as much character as the others which is also why I think it would be a good addition. It's on sale currently I think 300 euros if you use the vouchers. I don't know if I'm dreaming thinking it will be any better than what I already have and I hate wasting money. Any advice? I absolutely love the crossfade between velocity layers on the CSB, it's gorgeous to play with. That's another reason I'm a bit hesitant if vsl would be any better or not.

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@@MealsBeast you know, to be perfectly honest, it’s just not my favorite sounding library! Something about it has just always sounded anemic. Hard to put my finger on why! If you add anything to the mix of what you have now, I’d personally suggest something from performance samples! Pacific brass, angry brass or Caspian brass. All absolutely fantastic!

[@MealsBeast]

@@goodbear_goodblair thanks I'll have to look more into them, I thought the demo's and videos for Synchron sounded great!

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@ it’s definitely one of the best things VSL has put out! But if I had to put my finger on it, there’s kind of a lifelessness in the sampling. Shorts played in quick succession sound a little too machine gun-y, there’s not enough movement and imperfections in the longs patches. It just reads samples to my ears almost immediately!

[@MealsBeast]

@@goodbear_goodblair you don't need to talk me out of buying an expensive library! 😂 All I need is a small excuse not to get it. Yeah I totally know what you mean, that's what I meant saying it has no character because it's too perfect. SSB has so much character but I wrestle with it so much. One thing I've never done is make my own mixes with CSB, I always use the mix mic, so maybe that's why it's always been so thin for me too? I'm just looking for the best brass library, maybe it's a pipe dream, it doesn't exist yet. I wanted to get JXL brass but I just can't justify the price for the lack of articulations. Then I always A/B my libraries with demo's and videos of the one I'm interested in buying, honestly SSB and CSB sounded good in comparison. I own the 6 horns from JXL and CSB has more definition. But then I compared to Synchron brass and its totally different. There's a lot of control with 3 legatos and a midi cc for brass timbre. I talked myself into getting it. Performance samples sounds great but I don't think it's what I'm looking for, and it seems like I'm covered. Ahhhh decisions. At least if I get vsl I can return it in 14 days for a refund. Or maybe just wait because maybe something better is coming with the tech thats out there now... Thanks for indulging me!!

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@@MealsBeast I absolutely wholeheartedly recommend any brass from performance samples. And check out sample modeling too. Sample modeling layered with other brass libraries is CRAZY good!

[@MichaelPilipp]

Die CSS wurden einfach mit sehr schlechten Mikrofonen aufgenommen. Daran lässt sich kaum etwas ändern. Ich bin schon lange auf die VSL Synchron-Sounds umgestiegen, die wunderbar seidig klingen und sich sehr umfangreich programmieren lassen. PS.: Probiere bei den CSS einmal die beiden SOLO-Mics aus (das linke ganz nach rechts drehen und das rechte ganz nach links). Das ergibt einen schönen Stereo-Klang.

[@goodbear_goodblair]

There are definitely tricks to getting it to sound good, it can really be a matter of if you want to put that work in, but yes, a CSS2 would hopefully be engineered better. Also, not at all trying to pick a fight, but I haven’t really heard any VSL mockups that sound like they’re breaching a certain level of professionalism. Do you have any links of great mockups using VSL? Would love to hear.

[@goodbear_goodblair]

Oh, and thanks for the tip! I already do a version of this, where I blend one of the close mic signals in panned to the opposite direction. It gives, as you suggested, a nice bit of stereo width!

[@NickTwohig]

Great vid! Could you elaborate on how you managed to automate those buttons to change the mix? That's incredible! Is it specifically a Logic thing? Or something third party?

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@@NickTwohig hehe, yeah. That’s a BIG question. It’s not third party at all. It’s my own system I’ve created in Logic’s environment. Play around with the midi faders in Logic’s environment (command-0)!

[@NickTwohig]

@@goodbear_goodblair Ah, gotcha! I'm a Cubase user who is now wondering if that's possible in my setup. If not, I'm jealous! haha.

[@goodbear_goodblair]

@@NickTwohigI’ve worked this out with another Cubase user - in theory something like it is possible, but not to this extent, and certainly not on an organized master macro window like this. But some sort of version of it is technically possible!

[@goodbear_goodblair]

People rag on logic a lot, but their midi transforms make it (in my very lonely opinion, lol) a contender for the most powerful and versatile daw.