Is the Evangelical Free Church Recoverable?

[@sethbrickley4308]

David Whitney and Jeff Kliewer are godly men, great pastors, and dear friends of mine. They are the kind of pastors that people drive thirty miles to be under their shepherding. But just like the faithful of the past, they don't fit in with a corrupt religious leadership. The greatest threat to a corrupt leadership are faithful biblical shepherds who will call them on their evil deeds.

[@OneCrayGuy89]

I was raised in the E. Free church and it'll always have a place in my heart, but I was very disappointed with how it handled COVID. My old church shut down during that time and only did virtual church. I helped with recording sermons and stuff, but I was pretty vocal with my pastor about my disappointment with not meeting regularly as a church. I still have great love and respect for my former pastor (he baptized me and I was among those who voted for him to be our pastor), and I still have dear friends from that church. I have many memories, good and bad, about my time in the E. Free church, both in my youth and as an adult, and I'll always cherish them. I really hope the EFCA corrects some of the missteps mentioned in this video. Also, for any current or former E. Free friends reading this, we should go to Camp Shamineau again sometime. That place is awesome.

[@jameskeys971]

Two great pastors! May God bless them and their congregations.

[@darrelljackson6175]

Glad that Jon complimented them for their courage.

[@ExNihiloComesNothing]

God bless Pastor Jeff! Had the joy of meeting him and attending several of his free apologetics conferences back pre-Covid. Still follow and support him now.

[@craigchambers4183]

Appreciate the clarity of David and Jeff, true pastors. Good illustrations that are so simple to understand and makes the issues so pronounced that there is no defense from this (now official) denomination - top down ruling over the member churches. Jon is crisp with his questions and context; all very well done, thank you.

[@craigchambers4183]

When the EFCA in June 2023 restructured itself as a denomination collecting the power of the churches into its own small group instead of the 'movement' of autonomous churches, it affirmed itself as an hierarchy with official powers previously only belonging to the churches. This is why Pastor Jeff along with others are holding this conference in May over the weekend of the 3rd and 4th in New Jersey, to assess what our direction should be to help our fellow pastors and churches from across the many who have been hung out in the wind by their own or previous associations/denominations. I am making plans for my wife and I to be there, Lord willing.

[@sethbrickley4308]

That's wonderful Craig! Looking forward to it!

[@randesdoulos]

Excellent interview presentation. I'm blessed to be a part of the group [monthly Zoom meeting] which Jeff mentioned. This is our "band of brothers."

[@sethbrickley4308]

Yes, what a blessing it is to be a part of that group!

[@PilgrimLad]

I watched the Free Church chase our reformed minded pastors and elder out of the church. There were a couple elder who were pro EVFree above scripture. So it was better to leave, and now I am in a strong church following God's word even in government and social persecution during the 2020 event.

[@suechapman1974]

Very educational and important🙏🏻

[@brighoftheleash15]

I’ve known pastor Whitney for years and he’s definitely a very solid guy!

[@brentewing6467]

Greetings :) I pastored in the Free church for almost 30 years. I let my ordination go about 2015. But God's government is not diminished in the slightest, and the Master's path hasn't changed. Be encouraged in our Rescuer and please don't let denominational slide discourage you from or mission. Shalom!

[@katherinecornette5315]

Hmm True Shepherds! So refreshing to hear men who will stand against the woke agenda. It’s heartbreaking how many have fallen.

[@frederickswartzendruber9099]

The great evangelical free church disaster - what the pagan world said ten years ago is now what the church is saying today. Francis Schaeffer predicted this 40 years ago.

[@jerryfischer3988]

Wow! I can not😢😢😢 believe this happening in the church denomination that I love. Trinity International University shut down now this.

[@justintillett]

In listening to this podcast re the EFree Church I can’t help but think of the events and policy/doctrinal direction of the LCMS over the last two years. Jon, do you have a podcast re the recent developments in the LCMS?

[@Truth83rtz]

I left the free church back in 2005 when they were pushing Rick Warren's gospel. What did Christ die for? He died for your sins (in the afterthought fine print subscript font size 2 letters).

[@marshallalbritton9521]

This was really good. God bless these brothers.

[@dougdoesit3013]

It just really makes me wonder about the value of being ordained by any 'umbrella' organization.

[@cranmer1959]

Exactly! Calvinism alone gives believers the courage to stand against church leaders who disagree with Scripture. I thought of you when I read this quote from "Lectures On Calvinism" by Abraham Kuyper - "And only in churches which take their stand in Calvinism, do we find that spiritual independence which enables the believer to oppose, if need be, and for God's sake, even the most powerful office-bearer in his church. Only he who personally stands before God on his own account, and enjoys an uninterrupted communion with God, can properly display the glorious wings of liberty." Abraham Kuyper. Lectures on Calvinism.

[@dougdoesit3013]

@@cranmer1959 Interesting quote. I get it too, because Calvinism is anchored in God's sovereign rule. Once that is departed from the pathway of man-centered pragmatism is entered.

[@JodKrMdr]

I left the E Free Church years ago after moving away. When we returned a few years later we noticed huge changes in the EFCA . We saw they had started to move towards Social Justice back in 2010 or so. We also saw the embrace of Contemplative Spirituality. I couldn’t return and in good faith give an offering knowing a part of it was going to support the EFCA. I wish our old church would leave the denomination as well.

[@JamesJones-d5w]

Slandering a Godly pastor's character reveals that the slanderer has bad character.

[@raypaget815]

If the EFCA is an association of local churches, with no centralized authority over each member fellowship, how is it that the EFCA has authority over the ordination of brothers Kliewer and Whitney?

[@craigchambers4183]

The EFCA has legitimate authority over the ordinations because they are the issuers of them. The examinations for ordination are performed at the local church and reviewed by the national. The problem is not with the authority, it is with the national's abuse of it to remove men not because of some heresy or disagreement with the doctrinal truth that unites them (that would be legit) but with the 'ethos' which is not defined. If that were honestly done it would be defined as disagreeing with the national's personal views. So, when the EFCA in June 2023 restructured itself as a denomination collecting the power of the churches into its own small group instead of the 'movement' of autonomous churches it affirmed itself as an hierarchy with official powers previously only belonging to the churches. This is why Pastor Jeff along with others are holding this conference in May over the weekend of the 3rd and 4th in New Jersey, to assess what our direction should be to help our fellow pastors and churches who have been hung out in the wind.

[@billmarvel8111]

The state looks at the church as an organization and not as people who come together as in Christ and Christ in them. We are the church and the gates of hell will not prevail against us. Jesus is the reason why the church exists not our state or federal government.

[@johntobey1558]

How did they connect your book, to the functioning of your marriage. If they were concerned they should have sent you to professional counseling and pray for you.

[@vmjcross]

May their tribes increase.

[@juanguadalupe2539]

How much influence would you say finances has on the willingness of pastors to stand against woke leadership? As opposed to actual support for the woke ideology.

[@sethbrickley4308]

That's a good question. I believe it is a mixed group. Some truly embraced CRT and push it while others are willing to allow for it because they don't want to risk their position and status. Personally, from what I have seen, the latter group is more common. They are career men and not biblical shepherds.

[@longstreet2740]

I attended an EFCA ( Liberty Bible) church near Valparaíso in back in early 1980s. As far as I could discern, they were still basically sound in doctrine back then

[@karenshelley8517]

I was raised in Rensselaer at an EFCA church. I think that in the 70s and 80s there were efforts to be biblical. Sadly the Scofield bible was the preferred bible in the church I attended.

[@longstreet2740]

@@karenshelley8517 I attend Ball Road Baptist in Knoxville TN kzbin.info/www/bejne/fHTTnGh7hbuApc0

[@allenludwin]

The great apostasy continues across all denominations sad .

[@stevelizzio1785]

Totally agree with all your great concerns with wokeness, CRT, etc., but I see no issue encouraging churches to embrace multi-ethnic diversity within a congregation… it shouldn’t be forced, nor guilt driven, yet it can be strategic or purposeful.

[@j.d.fluekiger1498]

There needs to be a website that features all of these "leaders" of all of these evangelical denominations; their photographs, and what they have done to people's careers, marriages, friendships, etc., so that we laypeople in the church know who they are and what they have done. It is possible that these "leaders" could quietly go away and take up a "ministry" elsewhere. All of these documented cases sound very serious and it sounds like a very deliberate attempt by some very powerful, influential, and diluted people to deconstruct and ruin otherwise faithful religious organizations that have so much influence.

[@johntobey1558]

It's in West Windsor, NJ . Windsor Chapel near Princeton, NJ

[@tnowandthen-t8t]

"It all comes down to a lack of Biblical ethics, of justice..." I sort of agree, but I think that's just the fruit. The *_root_* is a lack of salvation. Winnowing is going on.

[@chrish5791]

This saddens me greatly as I came to faith in Jesus Christ in an Evangelical Free Church over 46 years ago. The E Free Church’s motto back then was claimed to be “Unity in the essentials, liberty in the nonessentials” which sounded reasonable to me back then as it does still. I haven’t been associated with that church for years now but who decided that this was no longer a good policy? Marxist ideology has infiltrated the church in many denominations and is entirely contrary to the gospel of Christ making me wonder if it’s not a good thing that those supporting these ideas are being revealed, exposed, and hopefully removed or demoted if they’re willing to repent from these policies. Woke has NO PLACE in the church.

[@skylerwilkinson6090]

David Whitney I don’t know you but I love you. Too many lotion-handed boys in church leadership. Encouraged by Christian men who will never kiss the ring.

[@lpcanuck3867]

It’s about adopting a governance model that allows for no dialogue.

[@charlesvincent1088]

While I am against the woke movement, I am actually a bit concerned with a few comments Jeff made. First, there are over 1,000 efree churches in the US. It doesn’t seem likely that this woke book was sent to literally every efree church in America which was claimed in this video. Second, a quick Google search can confirm that Dave Abernathy is not on the Board of Ministerial Standing at the EFCA as Jeff stated…

[@sethbrickley4308]

Charles, both of Jeff's statements are accurate.

[@greggpurviance7252]

EFCA used to be a solid denomination. Now?? Never took PPP. Absolutely not

[@cranmer1959]

10:35 Why are you so concerned about kissing the pope's ring?

[@Longe]

Is the Free Church in Honolulu woke? If so, I will not visit there. Mahalo!

[@rinihogewoning6528]

For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. (Matthew 16:25, ESV) Who would have thought this summons from Jesus would also apply to those who hold positions in the Church that don't accord with scripture (i.e. woke positions such as "Pastor of DEI Ministries"). To forsake this ungodly ministry is to technically lose your position and salary. But per Jesus' words, to not forsake it and to save it is to lose your life. The Apostle Paul would not stand for this social justice gospel nonsense, one reason being that it will lead many astray. And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. (Galatians 2:13, ESV)

[@BrianOberg-r6x]

I wouldn't stay in a church where the pastor told his flock what school they had to send their kids to. Way to authoritarian for me. But I wouldn't kick the church out of the denomination for it. I heard that 40yrs ago from a Christian school pastor. I thought it was arrogant then, and I still do. But people have the right to attend that church if they agree with the pastor.

[@johntobey1558]

This is incorrect. EFCA is not, nor has it ever been a hierarchy. The EFCa does not support Rapheal Warnock. . .we aa a church continue to move in the right direction. I pray blessings on your church and your ministry future in South Jersey. Please be at peace. Blessings from Bucks County Pennsylvannia.

[@sethbrickley4308]

John, Jeff didn't say the EFCA supports Raphael Warnock but that the man in the EFCA leadership supported the AND Campaign which was tied to Warnock. Secondly, their power had become more centralized because of what was voted in at the June 23 Conference. Case in point, before the conference Jeff appealed his discipline by being able to appeal to the churches, while David Whitney who was disciplined later was unable to appeal because they took that power away from the churches.

[@johntobey1558]

Thank you for the clarification.​@sethbrickley4308

[@hello21467]

Is racism bad?

[@greggpurviance7252]

Obviously

[@regpharvey]

Of course. Will CRT and Wokeness solve the problem of racism? Absolutely not.

[@EverEverOn]

Define racism.

[@JamesJones-d5w]

Racism doesn't exist

[@Hottamales555]

“Racism” was invented by the same people pushing diversity.

[@Hope-cn1tm]

So why can't the EFCA decide these guys are outside the boundaries? Their churches can leave the EFCA at any time. The leadership of the EFCA should be able to say these churches are outside the borders. So move on.

[@Savedandpetty510]

I’m hearing more about politics than the gospel. Both sides are wrong