News Roundup: Our Daily Bread, NAE, CToday, Nazarenes, RCC, ELCA, & More

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

Someone rightly pointed out that Nyack is Christian Missionary Alliance, not Nazarene. I knew that, but mixed up the denoms. They’re both out of the Holiness movement and very similar. My bad.

[@mikeyonce2323]

Yeah, they were uber woke back before being woke was cool. I saw the future and knew it was time to move on.

[@shawngillogly6873]

I was CMA once upon a lifetime ago. They probably have my accreditation in a file somewhere still. When they started debating inerrancy and let women be patrixes, I cut my last ties. Tozer would be ashamed.

[@johnrweiss]

You need to talk more about the CMA. Look into how they seize buildings and bank accounts if you try and stand against their new woke theological movements

[@adelegower834]

Nyack College is no longer. Changed their name to Alliance College, then failed completely....I was told this as I tried to get my College transcripts and they are with another organization that houses them. I attended in early 1960's...started changing then. It was sad....many left.....NOT out of Holiness movement......

[@theresa42213]

Jon You saw a rainbow flag at a Dutch Reform Church?! No way!

[@jordan5376]

Thanks for your perspective on Our Daily Bread. I use this devotional everyday at the start of our family dinners. I have four kids under 5yrs old and I find it the perfect way to introduce them to scripture in bite sized chunks. I don't read the stories or antidotes, I read just the Bible verse and read the short application in the final paragraphs. I think it has been beneficial for my kids to expose them to scripture and life application and to do it as a family. It's not our only source of reading but I do want to mention our family has been very blessed by ODB.

[@curtlarson2980]

Table Talk. Ligonier Very good. Depth,not shallow

[@Robert_Sparkman_03]

Their daily devotional is excellent.

[@briancroker5311]

Agreed. Former Our Daily Bread reader. Prefer TableTalk.

[@Tmcgraw79q]

Just looked at that. Looks good

[@vickyjackson777]

Thank you! A lot of useful information in this podcast. Wanted to point out for readers of comments that The Church of the Nazarene is a member of NAE & I believe has been has since 1984. - In past I’ve read letters to the President of the U.S. from Evangelical Immigration Table & I’d notice that NAE had also signed it. Seems there’s a link to many of these when it comes to the Left attempting to change policy. Sad to say that the infiltration has happened in various denominations & associations, etc. Megan Basham has done an excellent job exposing some of this in her book, “Shepherds For Sale”. I appreciate her & her work & I appreciate you & your work too, Jon. It’s people like you two that help open eyes to what’s going on in our churches, denominations, etc.

[@business77658]

Enlightening information: thanks John.

[@patw15]

Thanks again Jon - so very solid - good strong affirmations for my Biblical faith that’s been hard hit these past 4 years with the surrounding humanistic world views inside as well as outside the church. God gave me sound doctrinal foundation in the 50s and 60s thru my old Lutheran church in my youth. Saddens me to see where that denomination is now. My old Synod was wiped out by the 80s.

[@briannehill7583]

I am reformed baptist. But when I first became a Christian the church I went to was a Nazarene. I was a part of the nazarene church and worked for my church for 13 years. The Bible lead me out. As a baby Christian it took time for me to learn the discernment I needed to rightly divide teaching against the word of God. My experience was that they don't hold God's word with fear and reverence. They are egalitarian, and very progressive. In fact the pastor I was under never taught from the Bible. Every week was a bullet point Ted talk with the scripture loosely sprinkled in. I won't go into all the error for the sake of time..But I would advise anyone attending a nazarene church or looking to , to be careful. Hold what they teach against the scripture to see if they are really of Him. I feel very sad for how many years I was under that. And how many still are. Youre missing so much! Nothing is worth more than his word. And social justice isn't the gospel.

[@roxanerauta1567]

We too were saved as Nazarenes in 1990s, we left before the woke-ness and the Lord led us around and ultimately we were settled at Calvary Chapel before becoming OPC 8 years ago. It’s really really sad to see how bad it they are all turning out. So thankful the Lord preserves his own from this garbage.

[@Susan-f5u]

James Dobson was Nazarene as his father was. The Nazarene doctrine taught that a Christian can reach a point where they don’t sin anymore.

[@hbug13_62]

We attended a Bible study at a Nazarene church that was great...of course, the pastor who led it wasn't actually Nazarene. 😄 In fact, he explained the Nazarene theology to us in a side conversation one night when we asked him about the weird theology they were teaching at our, (soon to be former), church. That theology had taken us by surprise. We'd thought the Alliance church was your basic nondenominational until this "healing" and "second baptism" stuff cropped up. (I have no idea where it had been hiding for the two years we'd been going there.) He explained the whole Azusa street history with both churches. Honestly, I think all of the folks in our class would have been shocked by their own church's theology. The pastor, (an assistant), said that old doctrine of the "gift of holiness" was sort of an albatross that was too difficult for the church to shed, (lengthy process for a denomination to reform), even though they don't really teach it anymore. Considering the discussions we had in our small group, I'd bet those couples would have instinctively had a sounder grasp of the gospel and their sanctification process just from reading the Bible themselves. If you'd said to them, "You don't sin anymore, right?" They'd have instantly laughed. "Don't be ridiculous!" My husband and I have been on quite a road of discovery since, thanks to the internet. My deep dive on eschatology led me to look more into reformed doctrine, as the ones teaching eschatology that made sense to us happened to also be reformed. My farm chores don't require much in the way of grey cells, so I have plenty of time to listen to podcasts. Basically, while my husband is busy "hunting" I'm "gathering" and bring back episodes for us to listen to together and discuss and form our conclusions together. Finding a decent reformed church less than two hours from us...well, that's a much bigger challenge. Unfortunately, the Truth Script church finder has very few dots on the map east of the Mississippi! And the Antioch debacle has us doubting using the CREC list as a starting point. 😕

[@roxanerauta1567]

@ I know what you mean. We drove an hour and a half for 3 years to attend a very healthy reformed church. I think one of the puritans, or maybe it was Spurgeon had to travel like 2 hours.

[@elizabethregister]

I have long wondered why Christians aren't more interested in error or worse within the Christian church at large. I will include missions as well. A few of us in my church have been upset over our church contributing to Cru with its current involvement with Gay affirmation. Others are digging in their heels, saying we will hurt the feelings of Cru people we support if we don't support them. I have seen where Cru has even thrown members of Cru out for challenging this heresy. Lots of bad stuff is going on in churches, and what? It isn't nice to question it? Fooey on that! I'm grateful for this page and the info on it.

[@-RM-]

I remember the blizzard of 1977. I was 6 years old and my parents lived in a small ranch house in Hiawatha, IA. I remember my brother and I sledding down massive snow drifts which went all the way up to the gutters of my parents' house! Crazy.

[@stockinettestitch]

I was 7 in Minnesota. 🎉

[@Tmcgraw79q]

Our family read our daily bread for decades. We even read the daily bread devotional at my dad’s funeral service. I hear it’s a little different now.

[@darrelljackson6175]

Caitlin Clark's past weekend is an example of the never ending wokefest.

[@everettlunday8855]

My wife attends a Nazerene church right down the street from the Reformed Baptist Church I am a member of. Why, because reasons. It's all about the style, music, shorter messages (my church has sermons) and my pastor is a male chauvinist (patriarchy). 🙄 I know it's a mess. I've attended some services, and it's not bad, but you can still see the creeping leftism. I know I have a prejudice, but the differences are sometimes stark.

[@oldcuster3873]

The fact they would tolerate a wife attending a church apart from her husband tells you all you need to know

[@Susan-f5u]

Can you recommend another large print devotional?

[@FutureofChristendom]

Let's not forget: In Roman Catholicism, the pope is the Vicar--the actual representative--of Christ. How can that possibly work with this Jesuit pope?

[@Susan-f5u]

The ODB devotional is free. Donations are optional, at least that was their policy when we would order them several years ago. They have large print ones which is helpful for us older folks. They were part of Discovery House and offered really nice music CD’s. I will say this we were surprised when Martin DeHaan, a grandson, promoted “The Shack” several years ago. Another booklet that came with ODB monthly subscription didn’t support 6-day creation. I have the booklets from Radio Bible Class my mother saved (I’m 75 years old) from the early years. Their booklet on speaking in tongues is what opened my eyes to leave the Charismatic movement.

[@Crosses3]

I was in an EFCA church for over 20 years, feet washing is not a big deal in the EFCA.

[@KimberlyMurphy-mr7jd]

Same here. In fact, the one Jon lives nearest. Never did any foot washing.

[@RuminantHairdo]

@Jonharris, whats your thoughts on the Restoration Movement?

[@lambo58]

It seems that about half the articles in our daily bread are now written by women.

[@drewsmith1807]

Who's the professor from SEBTS mentioned? Have not heard of this. Former sebts student so interested to know!

[@impalaman9707]

Nazarenes kinda fly under everyone's radar, because they've been irrelevant for a long time. They were always just known as the church Dr. James Dobson grew up in, but no one famous ever went there, except maybe your grandparents. Doctinally, they're the grandchildren of the Anglican church. For want of more zeal for the Lord, the Methodists came out of the Anglicans. And when the Methodists zeal dried up, the Nazarenes came out of Methodism. So for them to compromise---who's left? Will surprisingly, Calvary Chapel is standing strong!

[@terristrange]

“Power dynamics reduced Bathsheba’s agency” no duhhhhh

[@Cinnamonbuns13]

I think C.R. Wiley was Nazarene before he became Presbyterian.

[@kaw19atlas]

The sad thing is that Nazarene laity is incredibly conservative and the leadership is less solid. Every few years something comes out but there doesn't seem to be enough will to fix some of the issues and remove people who don't follow the teachings of the denomination or are naked left-wing activists.

[@inezaultman1850]

It might be because there is a dogged devotion to their colleges with staunch refusal to recognize the eastern mysticism that is prevalent in their "spiritual formation" bent. It's the same with many denominational schools, including Free Methodist and COG Anderson.

[@kaw19atlas]

@@inezaultman1850 I can't speak with too much familiarity with the colleges, because I know there's a fair variety within the Nazarene universities. In general, they seem to be a mixed bag with a high emphasis on seeming prestigious (which I think is part of the reason why you'd see a distinctly non-Calvinist institution cite Calvin) and less focus on retaining Nazarene doctrine. I can't speak to their spiritual formation curriculum. Generally I would expect it to be heavily rooted in Wesley's work, which draws heavily on the Church fathers, but I could also see heavy intrusion (especially because there is a growing influence of the Charismatic movement in the CotN, which I am wary of).

[@gilbertnicholson1595]

At the end, we’re you referring to the Christians in Syria? I understand they were protected by Assad, but now that he’s gone, they face persecution from the new Muslim regime. I haven’t heard of any major persecution of Christians in Lebanon.

[@Dave-cf4xq]

Does anyone know if the Navigators have gone woke?

[@mikabrera]

I get the Dr. Jessica approach trying to make a "pro-life case for clean energy" is trash. But from a practical perspective, churches should look into upgrading their facilities and taking advantage of government programs to upgrade facilities and save ongoing costs. Depending on the situation for each church, in theory tax credits can be passed to the contractor, which makes the project cost cheaper.

[@dennisjones6620]

Our Daily Bread has apparently disassociated itself from the conference after backlash.

[@shawngillogly6873]

Our Daily Crumbs flirted with heresy before woke existed.

[@shawngillogly6873]

And I knew Denver Seminary had gone woke. But Mark Young has no clue about Vernon Grounds' character. Don't lay your heresy at his feet.

[@EvanPriston]

1 Chronicles 16:8 KJV 8 Give thanks unto the Lord, call upon his name, make known his deeds among the people.

[@EvanPriston]

Luke 11:28 kjv 28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

[@adelegower834]

Daily light on daily path from 1794 by Samuel Bagster......scripture around a theme each day and night. Another is My Utmost for His Highest by Oswald Chambers....so deep.....

[@jamiebluer9948]

John Mac Arthur has some great ones

[@Tmcgraw79q]

I like the drawing near devotional

[@Susan-f5u]

Iowa?

[@dennisjones6620]

Our Daily Bread apparently has disassociated itself from the conference after backlash.

[@Susan-f5u]

Didn’t they initially host or put it together?

[@curtlarson2980]

Christian Missionary Alliance?

[@donnadickson9409]

Where is there a “true” biblical church in central Florida? Uggh! Nazarene “Church”….I lost all respect for them and their schools when a professor at Eastern Nazarene near Boston told my niece that it is ok to be “gay” as long as you are in a monogamous relationship!

[@TheDCinSC]

I'm 99% sure that you misspoke and that the church you saw today with a rainbow flag was Episcopal.

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

@@TheDCinSC Yeah, today Episcopal. If I said Anglican I can see why you’d object. In this area any church in the Anglican tradition with the exception of one I know (that is charismatic episcopal) are completely hijacked. The Dutch Reformed tradition is about the same. There’s one CRC church I know of that isn’t like that. It’s a wasteland no matter what tradition with the exception of independent churches.

[@SandyFerguson-o8z]

Daily Bread has been going more liberal for a long time, unfortunately. It is sad.

[@michaelfalsia6062]

God is giving society in the West over to reprobation and apostacy in the professed Christian church. Most who profess Christ in the world today are unsaved. Jesus came to cause division and send the sword of truth to separate the elect from the non elect righteous in heart from the outward righteous and inward hypocrite. The church and every true born from above believer is at war with society and morally and spiritually has no part of what the wicked do.and desire to do. We are called to be holy and apart from the unsaved unbeliever whether a messenger of a false heretical Christian faith or another religion and faith or whether it is atheism agnosticism or outright wickedness the Christian is surrounded on all sides plus he has the inward battle with remaining sin and the mortification of it daily to contend with. But thank God the victory is ours through Jesus Christ our Lord and the Spirit of our God. In all adversity we stand and never retreat whether facing cruel death or cruel imprisonment and whatever for persecution comes. We take up our cross and faithfully follow the Lamb wherever He leads. We are sure that God will save all those for whom Jesus became sin and who have received His imputed righteousness through faith, that is the elect of God chosen in the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The Christian sealed by the Spirit of truth will endure and preserve to the end however much he is hated even as his Lord was hated by the world. The unbelieving world will always be against and antithetical to the Christian who loves not his life even to death. We look for the glorious appearing of the Son of God and the new heavens and new earth wherein dwells everlasting righteous in the presence of all the ransomed church of God will be gathered and in the presence of the Lord Jesus forevermore. Even so come Lord Jesus!