Is the Primordial Mother Goddess real? The Academic historical debate

#goddess #paganism #wicca
Is there historical evidence to support the idea that once, in a matriarchal past, there was one great mother Goddess from whom all the Goddesses stem?
RECOMMENDED READINGS
The Triumph of the Moon by Hutton amzn.to/40xErd5
The Scientification of Religion by von Stukrad amzn.to/40RTaPQ
the language of the goddess by Marija Gimbutas amzn.to/3zks4p5
Myth, Religion, and Mother Right by Bachofen amzn.to/40xpU15
The White Goddess by Robert Graves amzn.to/3KnNjfO
The Power of Myth by Campbell amzn.to/3G9nqOh
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REFERENCES
Brunotte, Ulrike. 2012. “Unveiling Salome 1900-Entschleierungen zwischen Sexualität, Pathosformel und Oriental Dance.” In Verschleierter Orient-Entschleierter Okzident: (Un‐)Sichtbarkeit in Politik, Recht, Kunst und Kultur seit dem 19. Jahrhundert, edited by Bettina Dennerlein, Elke Frietsch, and Therese Steffen, 93-116. Paderborn: Fink
Hutton, R. 2019. The Triumph of the Moon: A History of Modern Pagan Witchcraft 2 edition. Oxford: OUP Oxford.
von Stuckrad, K. 2014. The Scientification of Religion. Boston, Berlin: De Gruyter.
00:00 Intro: Where did the idea of a Great Goddess originate?
00:50 Evolutionism & ancient matriarchy
01:42 Johann Jakob Bachofen
04:33 Bachofen’s views influences others
08:37 Jane E. Harrison
10:05 Other scholars
12:34 Reaching a broader readership
14:15 Support Angela’s Symposium
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[@drangelapuca]

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[@LaneMaxfield]

I find it interesting how these narratives fit in with the dominant narrative at the time. For example, that the divine feminine had to come from a primordial culture where women were in charge, and were in charge of a utopia. It plays into some of the toxic ways that the dominant society believed women were purer and better and more innocent than men, (which was all just a polite way of saying they can't do anything for themselves and therefore need the men to be in charge) and the assumption that "valuable" and "holy" equates to political power, (as opposed to the idea that there is sacredness in all walks of life, from the highest emperor to the humblest beggar). I think to some degree this framework might have been necessary to make the idea of divine femininity accessible to the dominant, but it doesn't make it good history. Part of why I like seeing these myths deconstructed is that I hope we can also get beyond some of social ideas that made them necessary: femininity and masculinity both have light and shadow aspects, there is divinity in all experiences of life, etc.

[@zerologic7912]

I think there's truth to the myth, it's just clouded by the fact that it's viewed through patriarchal conceptions of power and sacredness, and so it ends up being distorted almost beyond recognition to the point where it actually becomes complementary to patriarchal myths rather than rebelling against them.

[@Bleakertube]

I had similar thoughts. Anachronism is always en vogue. I suspect the truth is that it was all quite messy really. Monotheism and henotheism strike me as natural impulses to “tidy up” religious traditions to suit present needs (whenever that present may be). Religion is just as messy today and probably always will be. That’s why it’s fun to study.

[@LaneMaxfield]

@@zerologic7912 ooooh, well said!

[@AC-dk4fp]

I've not read Bachofen but I don't think his view of matriarchy was Utopian. Robert Graves' utopian novel 'Seven Days in New Crete' isn't entirely without nuance either. The whole idea of a singular divine feminine paired with a divine masculine doesn't need acomodating to a patriarchal narrative at all since its just a projection of the nuclear family. The popularity of Isis and Osiris in the Hermetic order of the Golden Dawn and Gardner's original Wiccan trinity are pretty clearly inspired a disconnect in trends in late Victorian Christianity where the Father and Son are associated with nuclear patriarchal values but the traditional Holy Spirit just doesn't fit. There's a deep protestant background to these theories that absolves the anti-Marian attitude of the Reformation of guilt by projecting the loss of the divine feminine from Protestant societies backwards in time. In Anti-Catholic texts like the D'Vinchi Code this is done with Constantine establishing the Catholic Church but it works just as well if you push it back to the neolithic instead.

[@WildMen4444]

Pretty neat that you posted this on the first day of Megalesia (a Roman festival in honor of Cybele / Magna Mater)

[@diginoalessio]

When Shakti takes over, Shiva steps back ……. Great video as usual, thank you Angela.

[@lindalaws3857]

Shakti is known to be the divine aspect of the Sacred Divine Holy Spirit The Goddess of Love ..but is she a downstep Streaming thro & of the Divine Ultimate One who is the Source of all that is ...

[@dvergr]

As someone who is in the process of making his undergrad reaserch paper on R. Grave's White Goddess I found this video very helpful to get an idea of where his ideas are rooted and now thanks to you I know where to look in case I will dive deeper into this aspect of his writings on the matter. I would love to see your video on his works as well as Leland. Damn the fact that I can't subscribe to your patreon, being in Russia now. I hope you will continue making your videos! Thank you!

[@Writhe_n_Shine]

Good to see the channel upband running! Thanks as always for the great lesson!

[@DorkThink]

Tiamat was screaming through this video "me me me!" In short, yes, the Goddess was and is and will always be, Universal. ✨

[@MrPink-qf1xi]

The one thing I am really interested in is those goddeses which represents concepts such as war, death, darkness etc. they have a lovecraftian vibe to them. Unknowable all powerful, not nurturers but destroyers feared by highest of gods such as Nyx, Sekhmet, Lamashtu, Morrigan and Kali.

[@satanscrow8016]

or a female Satan. Had a cat named Nyx... I miss my buddy. I honor the dark feminine, it has reason to be.

[@TheModernHermeticist]

It's notable that this idea also existed in some way in antiquity too, through the kind of syncretism that addressed the problem of divine fissility within polytheism, which is how we get the famous aretalogy of Isis through Apuleius (Metamorphoses, book XI): "I am she that is the natural mother of all things, mistress and governess of all the elements, the initial progeny of worlds, chief of powers divine, Queen of heaven, the principal of the Gods celestial, the light of the goddesses: at my will the planets of the air, the wholesome winds of the Seas, and the silences of hell be disposed; my name, my divinity is adored throughout all the world in divers manners, in variable customs and in many names, for the Phrygians call me Pessinuntica , the mother of the Gods: the Athenians call me Cecropian Artemis: the Cyprians, Paphian Aphrodite: the Candians , Dictyanna : the Sicilians, Stygian Proserpine: and the Eleusinians call me Mother of the Corn. Some call me Juno, others Bellona of the Battles, and still others Hecate. Principally the Ethiopians which dwell in the Orient, and the Egyptians which are excellent in all kind of ancient doctrine, and by their proper ceremonies accustomed to worship me, do call me Queen Isis. Behold I am come to take pity of thy fortune and tribulation, behold I am present to favor and aid thee. Leave off thy weeping and lamentation, put away thy sorrow, for behold the healthful day which is ordained by my providence, therefore be ready to attend to my commandment." (Thomas Taylor trans.)

[@drangelapuca]

Thanks for sharing! My sources mention that, too. I believe it also mentions that it's one of the very few accounts (or the only one?) that seems to refer to one primordial universal Goddess in antiquity. Let me know if you know of other sources; it'd be interesting to open a conversation. :-) To my memory, the syncretism and reference to many names of X Goddess are what appears most rather than referring them to one primordial universal Goddess from whom all the others stem. You might find this talk by Prof Hutton interesting, too kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZ-smJhmjMmMeMU Looking at history and archaeology, he leaves the possibility of that concept open (and so do I), but the evidence to support it is not solid.

[@elsgeorgieva9140]

OMG! I just came here from the ESOTERICA channel and I am already so hooked up! You are amazing! Super interesting! Great work!

[@jbaquinones]

Wow. So much info I had to no idea existed. In aztec culture the mother of the gods and us arecrucial and worshiped to this day, Coatlicue and Tonantzin

[@patrickquinlan3056]

I have no sources outside my heart, my soul and my innermost being. From that source I know the one I call Ama. Her outer name, Ama, means "mother" but Her secret innermost sacred name is "I am". I have no interest in proving Her existence to anyone. I know She exists. She spoke to me and her presence is unmistakable. I appreciate your academic approach to the subject of the Mother of us all. I am not an academic. I touch the earth with my soul and the earth supports us all. I am so happy you saved your channel from evil individuals. Thank you for being.

[@LaneMaxfield]

I think that's so much healthier than coming up with a pseudoacademic explanation. You contacted something profound and sacred that told you how she wants you to interact with her, and you followed it! Good for you!

[@zerologic7912]

"Ama" is pretty close to "ana", which in Turkish means "mother" but also "main", "principal", etc, and "ana" is also Arabic for the pronoun "I". You must be onto something there.

[@patrickquinlan3056]

@@zerologic7912 Thank you for that. I didn't know that about the Turkish and the Arabic. "Ama" comes from Sanskrit and it is usually spelled "Amma" when written in English. There is a Hindu hugging saint by that name who is very famous. Ama is written with one "m" to distinguish from that saint. While what you have contributed doesn't prove any significance it certainly supports my inner knowing so I appreciate what you said for that reason.

[@zerologic7912]

@@patrickquinlan3056 You're very welcome

[@radmom4612]

Overjoyed to read this and learn that I am not alone. Thank you ❤

[@studiesonmagic]

so glad somebody tackled this issue! I come from Romania, where people have worshipped female deities 8-10.000 years ago, in neolitic and late mezolithic cultures. And people are still studying the issue. Thank you!

[@bwhitedpencilbox889]

There are many mother goddesses that do control fate and life and death, but it wasn’t a monotheistic static thing and there was always diversity. That being said many European peoples did center great Matrons. i think the idea of matriarchy as a category is flawed because it equates land and property ownership with social power. Many native tribes consider themselves “matriarchies” because their female elders in counsel make decisions but they don’t have the same concept of land ownership. I appreciated the analysis in The Dawn of Everything by David Graeber and David Wengrow of the Neolithic cultures of Europe which often did seem to spiritually focus on female figures associated with rivers, agriculture, flax and linen production. And their characterization of these matriarchs as scientist grandmothers! Gimbutas was very perceptive of european mythology and archaeology, her ideas were not all based on the antiquated “matriarchy” theory and I don’t think they can all be brushed away with those theories! Her work is often mischaracterized and she claims the Neolithic societies were largely egalitarian not a stereotype of “matrichy”

[@DneilB007]

Nice work. One thing that I have not seen addressed about the mother goddesses, particularly in the Greco-Roman tradition, is the subtle but clear implication that the worship of the mother goddess (whether Demeter, Cybelle, Potnia, Ge, or whatever other mother goddesses from the region that may have been conflated with her) had (before the ‘civilized’ classical Greek patriarchy evolved) involved human sacrifice. She was called Anesidora in Phlya, Demeter-Chthonia in Sparta, and Cidaria in Arcadia; in all there guises, she apparently plays the role of a psychopomp, perhaps to do with death-and-rebirth cycles. Demeter known for passing male babies through the fire (or, as Thetis, dipping them into the river Styx) to make them immortal. She is also the only Olympian to eat the meat of Pelops, the son of Tantalus, who killed, cooked, and offered his son as a meal for the gods. Obviously, this could be a “hatchet job” as we call them today, or it could be a misunderstanding of her role in rituals surrounding death & rebirth. If you know of anyone who has addressed this question, I would love to read/watch it. Another about Demeter that (again, to my limited understanding) is not often explored is her role as Demeter Thesmophoros, “giver of customs” or “giver of divine laws”. She presides over the sacred laws and rituals of the people, and plays a culture-hero role, teaching people how to live in an agricultural society. Anyway, enough rambling from me. Thank you for your video, and for sparking me to think more about the topic. 🙏

[@What-vo5bx]

I my “gut” tells me a lot of that “human sacrifice/feeding her kids to the gods” stuff is more symbolic, but I understand that THATS not a particularly viable source for some. But, most pf these stories and mythologies in sacred texts are poetic and use a lot of symbolism. You have to “read between the lines” to borrow a WAY overused cliche. 😊

[@duantorruellas716]

​@@What-vo5bx I agree , most of it is symbolic . After all thats what the Catholic mass is. Opinions among cannibals may differ lol.

[@Bildgesmythe]

So happy your channel is up and running!

[@Ravenoflight2275]

Thank you for bringing your knowledge to all . Bright Blessings 🌛🌝🌜

[@missavaricebliss]

Thank you for recognizing the contributions of Marija Gimbutas!

[@TheModernHermeticist]

Great video Angela, glad you got your channel back so quickly. I thought you were just getting really into the esoteric side of money for a moment.

[@drangelapuca]

hahaha luckily not!

[@rafalapolanski]

Incredible depth of knowledge. Bravo and thank you. Your mind seams sharp and thorough. Inspiring. Actually, when I read in my small garden of summerian studies I struggle with the concept of one common Mother Goddess concept. But for many years I was taking it for granted so, look at naive me :) still struggling with this. Thanks Angela!

[@phillipbernhardt-house6907]

Glad to see you returning to form with this video, Dr. Puca, as if that whole unpleasant incident over the weekend didn't happen at all! May you be protected from such hacking in the future, and continue to do superb work like this video and the rest of your channel well into the coming years and decades! :)

[@jared3370]

I'm learning so much from this channel. Thank you for sharing you knowledge

[@zerologic7912]

The timing of this upload is pretty fitting since I was reading Fredy Perlman's Against His-story, Against Leviathan and I was wondering about the more gendered aspects of the narrative, so this sheds some light on that. I know very little about esotericism and the occult so I'm looking forward to watching more of this channel.

[@genioducati6929]

Hey I just came over from esoterica, he asked us to come show some support. Good videos!

[@thegrimmreader3649]

Would love to see a video on Graves etc….! This was amazing Dr. Puca!!

[@drangelapuca]

Coming soon!

[@Davlavi]

Yes would love to hear more about these characters.

[@Salvatoreguglielmo_]

Another great episode! I remember when I first read some of the literature you referenced. Looking back 13 years ago up to the current time, there has definitely been a shift in the narrative, interest, academic discussion, and overall direction of spiritual related literature. To me it wasn't completely wrong but there was something inaccurate about it with it's own agenda. But I admit I was completely enveloped by the romanticism of it all! Let's not forget Crowley and Babalon too! I think this was an inevitable swing in the societal gender narrative due to patriarchal authority and dogma within Christianity that all above mentioned authors (and readers) were exposed too, creating a driving force for Neo-Paganism and a refocusing on the divine feminine. Also for esoteric practitioners of various kinds, reading the Grimoires a decade ago was complex, patriarchal, and too Christian for many. Also, from interacting with esoteric practitioners over the past decade I still hear the misdirected belief that the "west" has no spiritual culture other than Christianity due to the "goddess" being destroyed as heresy. Interestingly, my friends who are Muslim, born in their respective countries, with no Christian upbringing, call the Virgin Mary the Christian goddess!!! Perspective and bias clearly play major roles. I'll stop here before I write too much 😆

[@kellybright862]

I would love a Leland video! You are amazing, and your content is incredible! Thank you for sharing all your hard work with us!

[@tracyking4518]

Lovely, thank you! And for all the metalheads, Gaia by King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard :)

[@pedroarroyo345]

You are always shinin

[@juanjoseescanellas3798]

Of course I'd find very interesting a video about R. Graves. Thank you!

[@sewellparanormal6351]

Thank you Dr. Angela. Great information.

[@drangelapuca]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Bildgesmythe]

I would think the prehistoric Venus figurines show some goddess worship.

[@TenguXx]

I would love an episode on Robert Graves

[@fredfine]

Thanks for this video! I would love to see a deep-dive video on Graves and Leland 🙏🏻

[@HelloNewMoon]

Esoterica sent me here. Thankful! Im staying! Would love to see a video on this dealing with indigenous american beliefs who have one of the longest lasting matriarchal societies.

[@edoboleyn]

Well, you earned a subscriber! This is a subject I find compelling and you approach it in a serious, fact-based way. I am skeptical that human society ever permitted women to wield great power over men, given the importance of controlling our bodies and fertility. Our closest living cousins, chimpanzees, are not matriarchal. That includes bonobos. On the other hand, that does not negate the possibility of a “great goddess” cult. There do seem to have been mother goddess cults. Freud, Jung, Campbell, Stone, and others offer such seductive-if conflicting-interpretations of symbols and tropes, but I always come back to the need for _evidence._

[@nyrdybyrd1702]

Heard of your recent trouble, Angela (via Justin), I applaud your commitment to "broaden the inner circle" and would like to assure you all will be well (honesty forbids such yet my intent withstands 🙃, maybe one day I'll extirpate such abysmal doubt ⏳). At any rate, know you are appreciated &, although I may not count on you, I'll give account with you; hopefully such reciprocates sufficely from each niche quite nicely & until powers that be yield to powers that bestow, together we'll grow.. per Algorithm Almighty. 🙌

[@maldito_sudaka]

6:00 this video is amazing

[@kellyapplegate7256]

Fabulous. Thanks Dr. Puca! This episode gave me even more information to support my own beliefs!

[@grwilson3770]

Really good to see you back. I would love to hear what you have to say on Robert Graves & Charles Leland. I am reading Craig Spenser's edition of Aradia at the moment.

[@arnec9352]

wonderful episode. 👍

[@davidprice8282]

You are a perfect representative for the GREAT GODDESS, Your voice is musical. Blessed be..

[@drangelapuca]

Wow, thank you!

[@Frithogar]

There now is a curated copy of the transcript that has been made available to Patrons and now available to all Symposiasts www.innersymposium.study/?p=2705

[@ZeLeninovoMasoveRizoto]

As a Carpathian polytheist I probably have a different opinion than western or Mediterranean pagans, but for us I can say that yes, there is most definitely a primordial goddess - Mati Zem (I assume most scholarship uses the Russian name, Wet Mother Earth), Hajnal Anyácska (Dawn mother) and other forms of the same concept of primordial (earth) mother, whether within the same traditions or in others. That being said, I don't think they were the only goddesses worshipped or anything, nothing like the Goddess in the wiccan sense where all other goddesses would be their aspects. They're just the eldest. (Plus while I personally believe they're distinct and independent aspects of one being in various faiths, I don't think there's much proof that they all started as one cult worshiping one goddess in one way, it's way more likely that she (or her individual aspects) was "discovered" by different cultures all independently on each other)

[@samiam3297]

Great vid as always! 🙂👍

[@dexocube]

Excellent stuff, I have learnt a lot I didn't know about this subject. I think Robert Graves was instrumental in popularising these ideas in the English speaking world. I feel that the development of these ideas into a cohesive belief system in the 20th century is more relevant than the lack of any evidence for them in antiquity. The idea that ancient customs or practices are more "true" or real than modern ones is demonstrably false.

[@profbri.02]

OK, two things: A) Love the bangs, you look fabulous; and B). You're merch is WAAAAAY cooler than Justin's! By far. You should give Dr Sledge the contact info for your graphic artist. Peace 🙏

[@jacksonfurlong3757]

Great video as usual!

[@rrrosecarbinela]

Thank you!

[@AngelGothica-es7vv]

I Agree, been practicing for years. constant student.

[@slickandslaycious6579]

Thanks for the informative content. Best wishes!

[@duantorruellas716]

Great video Angela , I don't disagree with anything you said . I have much love and respect for the goddess deity's and the societies that were matriarchal where women were in charge of politics in their society. I wanted to share something with you and your subscribers on the subject of the ancient goddess I found years ago when I ran across the work of Constance Tippett. It was called " the goddess timeline." I found it very helpful and informative even though I'm not a scholar , just an occultist. Thx again for the work you do , I'm gonna have to send you and Justin and Dan Atrell something , It's just been a rough couple of years but you guys mean the world to me.⭐

[@sefewet]

I am interested in seeing more!

[@GonzaloCalvoPerez]

It seems clear that at least in the mediterranean/european context matriarchal cultures pre-date patriarchal ones. These older matriarchal cultures indeed seem to worship a goddess, that has been syncretized as the virgin Mary of christianity. I haven't read much about this, but I have been told that this is the idea that Graves wrote down. It makes sense to me, as the link between fertility and the skies is feminine, due to the synchronicity of the menstrual cycle and the lunar cycle, and fertility is also a key concept in settled people. In my own archaeological work, I have shown that the only pre-classical pythagorean megaliths, the taulas of Menorca, indeed represent symbolically the figure of the archaic sculpture of Hera of Samos, mixed with the golden ratio. The roman/jewish invasion tried to erase this matriarchal root, but failed. The figure of a male god is semitic, and comes from a nomadic shepherdic culture, where the woman, fertility and agriculture are secondary. We still live in a conflict between these two cultures, as nomadic ways are incompatible with sedentary ways. Sedentarism and agriculture now prevail, and therefore matriarchal society will flourish again. That is why the patriarchal semitic culture is so full of fear, and is trying to alienate society.

[@user-wo5bp2oi5c]

Thanks!

[@dorothygiann]

I would really like your perspective on the Primordial Goddess subject, especially regarding to the Earth's Children series by Jean M. Auel and according to the sources the author used. Thank you very much, keep being amazing ❤

[@KrisHughes]

I would have appreciated more on the mid-to-late 20th century academic debate, and which side you feel has "won" that debate. What you really covered in this video was "how did we get to goddess religion via earlier authors".

[@stormbower4707]

Dion Fortune maintained that All Goddesses are one Goddesses and all God's are one God. I think, as do many, that she was the worlds greatest occultist.

[@drangelapuca]

BECOME MY PATRON! www.patreon.com/angelapuca ONE-OFF DONATIONS paypal.me/angelasymposium JOIN MEMBERSHIPS / @drangelapuca MY MERCH drangelapuca.creator-spring.com/ or SUPER THANK me in the comments!

[@user-su7iu8lk3k]

Another great video, very informative as usual !❤️ I was wondering if you could do a video on french folk magic ? I am french myself and I find it extremely hard to find any information on the subject...

[@TarninTheGreat]

So, I read a lot of Mesopotamian/Canaanite mythology, and have put a lot of time into trying to track the characters in the stories as they grow and change over time and culture. But this video reminded me a lot of how whenever I try to see what work other people have done in the past, their answers always seem to be: It's all Inanna. And it's just... so uncreative! Like, in Sumer, you start with all these great goddesses and gods with different motivations and powers and personalities and stories, and those stories continue into later cultures, often with their own flares, their own synchronizations, their own modifications. But then you look at the modern consensus, and it seems to be "If it's a female deity that was in a region that had any communication with anywhere else in the world, then it's Inanna/Ishtar." (Not that Inanna's not great and all, but like, so're Ninmah and Nanaya and Ereshkigal and Ninlil and Geshtinanna and...... Shaushka and ... and Anat and Asherah and .... ) Anyway, wonderful video as always!

[@Northwind-druid]

I can see how many concepts around a Mother Goddess would have been developed as you described, but then it makes me wonder about the Venus figurines, like the Venus of Willendorf.

[@insane_assailant1197]

Mother worship is a huge part in Hinduism...Happy Navaratri

[@bobbylee_]

Jane E. Harrison’s work really puts Martin Bernal’s Black Athena in sharper focus. There is a great 2001 mini series called The Mists of Avalon. It’s the story of the woman “behind” King Arthur. There is an explicit telling of how patriarchal societies subjugated or destroyed matriarchal ones.

[@cmeyer7050]

Perhaps include into this study, Tiamat, Pachamama and Asherah

[@zacharycurrie3708]

Please make a video on Graves if you can. And it would also be great if you could make a companion video on Ted Hughes' "Shakespeare and the Goddess of Complete Being". Thanks for the great video.

[@jonathanj.7344]

Margaret Murray's work was about the continuation of an ancient pagan religion centred around a horned god figure, who became identified with the devil of Christianity.

[@patrickhughes1790]

Please do a video on Metatron.

[@blakebrown7068]

Throughout my studies in medieval cultural interactions, I would often work with literature and archeological evidence. I always found it fascinating how many crossovers there were with certain philosophical concepts. When doing personal study in ancient cultures. I have often wondered about the concept of a primordial goddess predating other worship. Personally, I have always thought of the "goddess" as worship or magic based on fertility. Child birth has its scares and concerns now. I can not imagine it in ancient times. Does anyone in particular discuss this possibility?

[@treecuddler]

Yes please devote an entire video to Robert Graves.

[@alwilliams5177]

I am a bon actitive Freemason and Anglo-Catholic mystic but otherwise I never really looked into the occult until watching you and, to a lesser degree Dr Sledge. Thanks for the great content. Would you recommend reading The White Goddess or The Golden Bough or should I save that time for my reading primary sources in Greek?

[@SumNutOnU2b]

An interesting side note. The Hebrew God Yahweh (YHVH) was originally a mated pair of god&goddess, El and Asherah. Asherah was the mother goddess and creator of all life. So even the currently dominant Christian paradigm has a Mother Goddess at it's root. (There are many possible sources I could give. The first that comes to me: a 1967 book by Raphael Patai called *The Hebrew Goddess* )

[@danielwallace1653]

Bravo bravo thank you 🌞🌝🌎🔥🌊🌬

[@MasterPoucksBestMan]

My thoughts are that most cultures had a goddess who was the mother of the other gods and goddesses, and because these ideas are so often based on human social group dynamics, that the goddess who was the mother of the others, was herself therefore "greater/more powerful/more in charge" than her children. I think that if each culture that had that concept were the only culture on the planet, that there wouldn't be this discussion because they would see their "goddess who was the mother of all the other gods who were themselves the creators of everything downline from themselves" in any location on the planet that they happened to go to. That doesn't mean humans were ruled by women at an earlier stage (or that they weren't), and it doesn't mean that the "consciousness" known as the great mother goddess was the same consciousness as a goddess (or god) who was her child that ruled over a more restricted area of existence or human life/skillsets. The fact that "different" mother goddesses from different cultures had differing total associations from culture to culture doesn't really matter, since I'm the same person but I act differently and have different relationship dynamics with my wife, my father, my employer, the waiter, etc, etc. Those relationship differences don't mean I myself am a different person or schizophrenic. It means that what constitutes "me" interacts differently with what constitutes each different person, animal, etc that "I" interact with.

[@satanscrow8016]

Very interesting lecture; you mentioned a whole slew of names I've never heard of before, so something one can sink one's teeth in, if so inclined_ bravo, I like learning new things. What do you think of Joseph Campbell's thoughts on the subject as expressed in Masks of the Gods, Vol III. Part I of the book is entitled, The Age of the Goddess. I haven't read it yet, I have an ebook version of it but I'm waiting on a hard copy, (otherwise known as a book) but my thinking is, if the history of world mythology points to such a time in our past, then such mythology is, evidence of a sort in favor of the idea, isn't it? Personally, I'm rather fond of the idea but it would be even better if there was some truth to it.

[@Gongchime]

The thing that comes to my mind is Nammu, the mother of all the gods in Sumeria.

[@AngelGothica-es7vv]

can joseph campbell be woven one of you're Webinars? Please Dr. Angela Puca?

[@davidhildebrandt7812]

I'm really skeptical of the historicity of a widespread worship of a specific Goddess in "old Europe". We just have preciously little evidence on ancient (pre-indoeuropean) religion at all. Perhaps through new methods, we might one day learn more, like we know about early IE religion. But considering this lack of historical evidence, it seems quite clear to me that the idea of this goddess worship reflects mostly the intellectual landscape of the late 19th/early 20th century. You've got the grand historical narrative of this struggle between patriarchs and matriarchs, similar to historical materialism. You've got the ideas of a female and a male principle, of interest to psychologists of the time. You've got the feminist ideas about women and their role in society. All these intellectual components mix with the spiritualism of this period, and a (mostly) new ancient religion was born

[@hedgehog3180]

At least in Denmark apparantly they worshipped the sun, and maybe horses.

[@eyeofgnosis558]

It would be interesting to see if there are any links to the Vedic concept of Shakti amongst these interpretations (both past and present) ^_^

[@LonelyParadiseKiss]

I'm curious to what your explination would be about all the 'Venus' figurines that have been discovered all over the world. Are these linked to a Goddess religion in some way, I'd be interested in hearing your view on this. Grazie Angela.

[@jeffnorris7789]

If there was not a archetype of the Goddess then one would have been imagined.

[@An_Egregore]

❤❤❤

[@shanesullivan460]

For some reason I find it funny that Bachofen influenced both Engels and Evola.

[@brightbite]

What are your opinions of the work of Max Dashu? She's explored A LOT on this subject!

[@BeatMage420]

I absolutely believe... I have visions of her... She's a shapeshifting creature from the abyss... By Abyss I mean the Sumerian concept of the Abzu, like the aquatic submatrix of reality.... I think she's a triple goddess... The first known city of Sumeria called "Eridu" was founded in honor of Ninhursag by Ea Enki... I believe that mythology evolves into The Goddess and the Horned God... This is difficult to explain, but I've read the Sumerian Tablets.. The Deluge is not a flood it's an invasion and destruction of Eridu which pushes Enki and Ninhursag's cult into an Exodus that leads to Egypt... Ninhursag is like Hathor or Isis and Enki is very much like OSiris... Those civilizations are so prominant many others are born out of them... The figures evolve and in the wilds the tribes rely on the Pagan view born out of Sumeria... The Deluge forced an exodus as the region collapsed into a Babylonian state. The spirituality outside of the region of Babylon was born into Paganism from Sumeria at that time by forced migrations. A lot of pagan tribes have the Serpent Goddes progenitor story from Sumeria...In a lot of ways Christianity in it's entirety is symbolic of the targeting of these druidic serpentine cults based on matriarchy....

[@BeatMage420]

This video is excellent. THis is exactly what I"ve been researching....

[@Snukt]

Sorry I have no arguments to make, but I'm not a scholar, just a believer. Thank you a lot for this and the rest of your videos. Independent for the agreement or disagreement I can have, you present very important and interesting ideas, and that's part of what fuels a religious path. You inspired me to know and relate better with the Great Goddess. Blessings.

[@nowheremedia329]

interested in the Egyptian mythology it was a male who was a earth god and a female who was a sky goddess also the idea that the moon being a female deity seem to be a indo European thing such the Sumerians and the Japanese have their moon deity being male

[@williamwhalen9735]

Great work. I’m curious what political implications might accompany the shift from matriarchal goddess centered communities to patriarchal ones. Namely, I’m interested in how such a shift might have shifted violence from the center of society to the periphery as a means to control the population and alienate them from both their responsibility in regard to violence and the power it affords. My underlying assumption being that the goddess demands blood sacrifice, while, under patriarchal rule (like Christianity) sacrifice becomes sublimated, symbolic, and outsourced or moved from the center to the periphery.

[@williamwhalen9735]

Put more plainly, I’m a pretty poor historian myself, but I get the sense that goddess centered religions focus not exclusively but more frequently on self-sacrifice and/or sacrifice within the community, while patriarchy orders focus on a sacrificial substitute or sacrificing an other without. And if so, it seems clear that this is an ideology that pairs nicely with imperial expansion. But I think that there is a more violent violence than the requirement of self-sacrifice itself that impacts those within the society that isn’t studied enough

[@goeegoanna]

Fascinating, thank you. I thought the Earth Mother was associated with pre-agricultural societies, before sedentary and competing communities. One thing I think is of consequence here is much older. We have two nearly identical genetic ape cousins on either side of the Congo river, yet millions of years apart, chimpanzees and bonobos. Chimpanzee society is patriarchal, competitive and combative. Bonobo society is matriarchal, egalitarian, empathetic, altruistic, food is shared, conflicts are resolved with sex, favours are paid with sex. Everyone is constantly frotting, for one reason or another, and most of it is same-sex. They tend not to go to war with competing mobs, unlike their chimpanzee cousins, they will have sex and share food instead. We have the disposition for a matriarchal, altruistic, egalitarian society, why wouldn't an all caring Earth Mother be the primary deity? Would those patriarchal chimpanzees have a more aggressive Sky Father, if they had superstition and spirits? When our society became patriarchal and competitive, did we then begin to worship the Sky Father too, with him war, walls, the 'big man'/chief/king and his 'god' given right to rule, much like the silverback?

[@peters8512]

I was tempted to bring up bonobos, but decided it was too much of a tangent. I'm not an anthropologist, but I have a degree in Psychology which included evolutionary psychology. A lot of people seem uncomfortable with the idea that human behaviour is often little different to apes at a water hole, but looking around, it seems clearly true to me. Much of the cultural evidence for a "Great Goddess" comes from Greece, which puts things at a few thousand years ago tops, in over a hundred thousand years of homo sapiens history. Even the Neolithic is modern in the scheme of things.

[@zerologic7912]

Patriarchal civilization isn't inherently related to agricultural or sedentary life though, it's more about impersonal, inhuman institutions that keep droning on through beyond people's desire to keep them operating, and they end up binding people to them and reducing them to slavery. And of course this development has never been a linear evolution, as various peoples have risen up throughout history to build egalitarian communities and reject the civilizational logic of domination.

[@MrPink-qf1xi]

I have Robert Graves' The Greek Myths it is probably outdated at some parts but as far as I could find, it has great information, fun to read retellings of the mythys and some unique ideas. I had a lot of fun reading it again and again it is one of those books that really got me interested in mythology in general.

[@maat.isisra]

I had a lot of synchronicities in my life which all linked hidden to the archetype of the fertility and war goddess, which is in a lot of mythologies like ištar/inanna (Babylon/sumer), Durga (Hinduism), Freya (Germanic) and a lot of other wide spreaded mythologies. That's the reason for the last years I read everything I can find to this topic. But this "archetype" is older then the proto-Indo-European culture and their invasion and older than the sumer culture. In the neolithic culture goddess were the only sign of fertility and creation. The abrahimistic religions did their rest to hide these connections and write it over with other mythologies which linked to the patriarchary in a hidden way

[@mattsolomon3]

In risk of conflating the real and the academic, or what is hearsay and the documented. Something I heard (I’m not even sure where) is a theory or understanding that all humanity descended from just four matriarchs in distant pre-history. Anyone know of this theory? Is there any parallel to this possibility in myth?

[@Libsarw]

Just a question. Margaret Murray ideas has or was discredited in recent decades. Has academia started to reacess her works and found to be somewhat accurate or accurate to begin with? Thank you.

[@drangelapuca]

No, it's been fully discredited for decades now

[@easter_sunday]

I'm sure once society completely collapses, we can contemplate the goddess while standing in bread lines.

[@miguelatkinson]

That's random but ok

[@patrickquinlan3056]

Oh! How optimistic of you!

[@AZ-ty7ub]

Humans will and have always contemplated higher realities regardless of material conditions. Some of the most profound insights can be made during times of hardship.

[@Bildgesmythe]

If society collapses who runs the bread line?

[@tdarons]

I am on the “bread line” right now…have been for decades. I contemplate the goddess daily. She is me…I am Her. No separation from primordial consciousness. I could joke “send me plenty of money Now!” But that’s not how it works. It’s enough that I am blessed to be alive and just as sardonic and whimsical as ever…in this moment. I almost didn’t make it this far, having had many archetypical “Kali” moments in my life. You cannot truly appreciate Life “L’Chaim” until you have kissed the face of Death…or rather She has kissed you…one too many times. It is what it is…I am That I am. The Divine Feminine has my back (and my front!)

[@bluwng]

Angela is 😍😍😍😍❤️❤️❤️

[@zebracorne]

I completely disagree with the ideology of wrapping up all godesses into one incarnation of feminity. Women - and godesses - are way more complex and diverse than just "growing up and making babies". A lot of triple goddesses are triple in order to express their power, they are in no way a "maiden mother crone" figure. The Morrigan is a goddess of war and triple to show her immense power. The Fates are a goddess of fate and triple to show the immensity of her power. Hekate is chtonian and a goddess of magic and the dead, triple to express how powerful she is. There ARE godesses of wedding and childbirth and stuff, but not all goddesses are like that. I find it super patriarchy-oriented to trap all expressions of feminity and womanhood into one archetype of child-bearing and child-raising. It is very essentialist too, as if being born with an uterus meant that one is condemned to a life of baby factory. Do not get me wrong: if making tons of babies is what you want to do with your life, go ahead and be happy with your many children! But not everybody wants to do this. It is also hurtful for men because "being happy raising children" falls outside of what they are allowed to do, so they are condemned to siring children while never becoming a dad. It is super sad too.

[@ngonfinda9606]

There is in Hinduism you can look into shaktism for sources and the tantras. I enjoy bhakti to the maga Vidya.

[@ngonfinda9606]

@WHENDOESITEND? Watching interviews with her before she renounced her dad was so sad you could tell something was wrong with her

[@ngonfinda9606]

@WHENDOESITEND? I have also read he passed her around to his friends and later she became a tantric Buddhist. I do hope she left the temple of set guy he also seemed toxic.

[@Korakos]

Hmmm... what does she mean here when she says evolutionism?

[@krishnapillai6778]

Hindu Shaktic Philosophy maintains that the Goddess Adi Parashakti (loosely translated as the first and foremost of the Shaktis) is the overarching Goddess form from whom all others emerge and are an embodiment of. The matrilineal societies of Kerala all were traditionally associated with Shaktism as well.

[@xerzerv6363]

How about INNANA