Is The Red Pill WRONG About MARRIAGE?

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• Beauty, Marriage and O...
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[@ZubyMusic]

Feel free to share your thoughts in the comments! Please be honest, but respectful.

[@TheUnconventionalMan]

Zuby The issue is not marriage! Never has been. The issue is the GOVERNMENT! It's not women enforcing this its the Men with the Guns! People need to Wake up!

[@MexicanNerd10]

A good follow up question for Zuby would be, “Do you think religion should be considered with politics (do you think that Christian values should go hand in hand with politics)?”

[@ZubyMusic]

​@@MexicanNerd10it is impossible for them to be separated. People's moral and ethical frameworks (including religion or lack thereof) are connected to their politics. Good laws are based on morality and morality is connected to religion. In the absence of religion, societies drift towards atheistic 'humanism' (progressivism by another name) or some form of statism.

[@MexicanNerd10]

@@ZubyMusic 😮I had no clue you were actually going to respond and I completely agree! Thank you so much!

[@SweatyFatGuy]

Why should young men get married? Why should they risk EVERYTHING for the rest of their lives, when women have massive incentives to divorce them for cash and prizes? They have seen what happened to men like me, and they don't want to go through it. Its not fear, its not that they are intimidated by women, or want to control them, its a simple cost benefit analysis. The risks are far greater than any benefit for them, and men being logical beings are not going to take a risk with zero pay off. The ONLY thing they get out of it is spicy time with her, and the problem is there is NOTHING keeping her from giving that to anyone else she wants. In fact she will be rewarded for doing that by the state. She is rewarded for doing everything wrong while he is punished regardless of what he does. Change the laws, remove the incentives for women to divorce, and stop punishing men for being fathers and husbands. Metaphor: Lets say there is a busy street with a delicious ice cream stand on the other side. Would you cross the street if two of every ten men who cross are hit by a bus? Would you cross if it were 4 of ten? Well its 8 out of ten get hit by the bus, and the ice cream isn't all that great over there. I crossed the street twice, and it cost me everything except for some rusty old cars. The religious couples are divorcing too now, so you can forget that. I am 54 and my final divorce was ten years ago, my life is vastly better now than it ever was with a woman in it. Its all take on their end, and no giving back. So I am done, and no matter how many times they hit on me, I know they are not worth the effort and risk. Stop. Punishing. Men. and stop rewarding women for anything and everything they do. Otherwise, yeah men are not going to play that game where its all massive risk.

[@chrispark7010]

there is no real marriage as long as there is no-fault divorce

[@oldschooldude7729]

No fault divorce was brought in in California decades ago because abused women were GETTING MURDERED by their husbands. But to pretend that we can't keep no fault divorce laws to protect abused women, but simultaneously add in clauses and paragraphs in the legislation to make exceptions say in the case of wife's adultery and paternity fraud...is dishonest and it artificially keeps the debate going when it doesn't have to. I see this problem on both sides. Liberals claim conservatives ONLY want to take away abused women's ability to escape an abusive marriage and that they don't really have any intention of seriously protecting victimized men, and conservatives seem to pretend they don't know that keeping no fault divorce DOESN'T MEAN that those types of extra clauses or exceptions I mentioned can be added in.

[@hus390]

Divorce should be readily available. Prolonging a marriage that doesn’t work is terrible

[@kalinkapavlova9398]

​@@hus390 or people can take marriage as seriously as any other contract, which often can not be easily nullified or broken due to one side deciding one day that things 'aren't working.'

[@the_w189]

@@hus390 stop the marriage at any time you like, but when you choose to make children make a promise to stay together till they are at least 16. i know a lot of people will start with a lot of excuses, but the children did not ask to be born and a break up does a lot of damage.

[@kalinkapavlova9398]

​@@oldschooldude7729 that's not really true, though. No-fault divorce, in California, was brought in to reduce perjury and therefore penalisation, under the impression that it would be beneficial for all parties involved, including the children. Over 40 years on, and we can see that's not the case for most divorces. Stats show that kids are worse off in single parent households, especially those where the father is absent. Women are not necessarily better off, either, and are still at risk of abuse by violent partners in defacto relationships. So whilst I agree that there's misinformation or misrepresentation from some liberals and some conservatives, you can't give the impression that no-fault divorce is better than not after decades of evidence suggesting the opposite.

[@sharpturns5558]

I've been happily married almost 28 years. Our kids know we're happy and that we have a good marriage. But my son said he thinks what me and my husband have is rare. It saddens me.

[@micheleosullivan4430]

Take heart because you and your husband lead by example. :) He may see you as rare, but he has learned by you both.

[@ZubyMusic]

I hear that. It's good to talk to young people about this because perceptions and realities have changed a lot. Even just within the last 15 years.

[@sharpturns5558]

@@ZubyMusic I have four sons. It's really difficult for young men today with dating. Two of my sons are hopeful. I know a lot of people in happy marriages. I host a Christian theology podcast and I have a group with over 7000 Christian women. Far more are in good marriages than are not.

[@DManCAWMaster]

That's because your son is right. Happy marriages are oddities

[@AlbowaSinema]

It is because it is rare. Look around you and stop pretending things are great. No man in the western world should be getting married. How anyone gets married under those conditions I dont understand. Being single is much much better...especially when women just give it up for a shiny object all the time.

[@99999racerx]

It’s not just fear: it’s common sense. There is no juice to squeeze.

[@nophone9311]

What a surprise. A woman that doesn't understand why men don't want marriage. "Just marry a woman who wont leave." My goodness. Why didn't I think of that!

[@marriagecausesdivorce7540]

Women advocating for an institution (marriage) which they will benefit from, e.g. by taking the money, house and kids on divorce. Surprise, surprise. Marriage was worth it in my parents and grandparents generation due to a survival need. However now women have jobs, the backing of the family courts and they want to be independent boss babes, marriage has now become a fool's errand.

[@TheUnconventionalMan]

The issue is not marriage! Never has been. The issue is the GOVERNMENT! It's not women enforcing this its the men with the guns! Wake up!

[@masonlambert8213]

Men benefit from traditional marriage, believe me I’m in one. concerns with what modern day culture has done to pollute it are valid. And I held every one of them and still fully understand them. But attacking the institution is absurd. And abandoning it entirely is worse. She’s coming from a mindset (all be it naive) from the rest of society, but she is speaking to the original institution. And that matters.

[@DManCAWMaster]

​@@masonlambert8213 I don't know why we promote marriage in our society. Slightly less than half of them end in divorce and a great deal of the ones that don't end in divorce are miserable or married in name only (I.e they're separated and moved on with their life, but just haven't bothered to file the paperwork for the divorce). Like the odds of getting in a happy marriage are low

[@Wiela4015]

​@@masonlambert8213"men benefit from traditional marriage" - joke of the year. Men don't benefit from any kind of marriage. It's a lose lose deal for them. There is no benefits. Why don't you name them instead? In this modern world, marriage benefits doesn't exist.

[@robchurch881]

Young men are not terrified, they are realistic in the fact that most marriages don't last and realistic in the fact that the divorce laws are stacked against them. One major factor is what happened to my son and many of his friends. He watched, was old enough to understand and remember. He watched as my ex wife cheated and destroyed our marriage. He witnessed that there was no abuse and the only one that was toxic in our relationship was his mother. He also witnessed his friends parents go through the same thing, as well as his friends witnessed what happened in my relationship. Whether his mother acknowledged this or not, it emotionally hurt him. Then he watched that after she was the one that cheated and destroyed the relationship, she was awarded custody no matter how hard I fought for it and then she was paid out. After the divorce he had to watch as she was constantly bashing me to anyone that listened and she was bashing all men. So if he can't trust his own mother and witnessed how dishonest she was, how is he supposed to trust a woman to not do the same thing to him?

[@IgnacioAguilarToledo]

What a sad story

[@aspreedacore]

@@IgnacioAguilarToledo does it make it less true?

[@Seevawonderloaf]

I feel like this is a one sided account but if it is true, she sounds like a terrible person generally. The laws of this country and the social lens has become decidedly anti-men, almost as an over correction for old laws that used to oppress women. Ironic that many times when I've told my male friends that these laws and the society is unfair to men, they get offended 😂 but i feel that way because I come from a society where gender inequality exists in a very real, very tangible form in some regions of the country (and is unequal or bending towards women in other parts of the country). Seeing women in villages suffer really changes your perspective when you hear western women complain that they don't like their partner because of something trivial.

[@sladderemil5720]

The thing is, my parents divorced. My dad talks exactly like you but he don't understand that my mom divorced him because he made alot of mistakes (cheating, drugs, never being home etc). My dad bashes my mom and my mom bashes my dad. It's like idk, i feel like both of them were kinda selfish to split up our family because of their emotions towards eachother but i also understand them. With that being said, as long as i could remember i never even wanted to get in a serious relationship. I did however but i never really took it serious because i was afraid of depending on another person. I do love my girlfriend but it's almost like a choice i make if that's understandable. I would never ever create children in this world tho, it's just too fucked.

[@sladderemil5720]

I think i actually am kinda scared of being emotionally dependent on a person, especially a girl who is emotionally driven.

[@CONTRACTOR_SG3]

Having this conversation with women is LITERALLY like talking to walls. Every time bro brings up a risk along with the statistics all she essentially is saying hey guys come on just roll the dice 😂

[@victormartinez3460]

Right 😂

[@darbyohara]

Yup. Waste of time. They refuse to accept the facts and reality. They’re too brainwashed that marriage is good… for them! 😂

[@PepeCoinMania]

and this dice is completely messed up

[@lazutesamotelazu]

Life is constantly risking something tho. You’re techinaclly rolling the dice every time you go outside as a black man especially, since you never know when somebody will decide to take you out. Life is all about risking when you find the right person to risk it for. There are great women out there, they just aren’t talking to you. All of you Americans are constantly crying about being victims (men and women) to the point where you’re drowning in your own misery

[@MMAGrinders]

Red Pill or not the contract for marriage is a terrible one-sided contract and the statistics back it up.

[@ZubyMusic]

It needs to change unless people want this trajectory to continue.

[@inosukehashibira5511]

Facts

[@asparrow9876]

@@ZubyMusic They rigged the rules to the game, so they can keep playing alone until it changes. Our absence will continue until morale, culture & legislation improves. Not a minute sooner.

[@Nobleheart111]

Yep. Fix the contract or see men walk away from it in overwhelmingly large numbers.

[@figo_hd355]

@@ZubyMusicthey do want this trajectory to continue

[@FAFOistheLaw]

I relate to what zuby said so much. My parents have been together for 53 years, I come from a family where every one of my 3 siblings are married. I'm the youngest, and I've been through 2 engagements that did not work out, and now it has totally caused me to check out of the dating pool. I find modern dating, and relationships absolutely exhausting. And I am absolutely afraid to try to get married, simply based on the fact divorce is so damn trendy now, and I've totally lost interest in finding the right one.

[@JP-qb3ny]

Go overseas outside a western nation, you have a better chance of finding a woman who has been raised traditionally and views divorce as immoral.

[@marriagecausesdivorce7540]

I wouldn't necessarily give up but you have to accept that what you are looking for, e.g. a women who is willing to stay with you in a traditional 50 year marriage, is becoming rarer and rarer now they have jobs and the backing of the family courts. It is honestly better to stay single, happy and rich rather than divorced, depressed and poor. Good luck either way.

[@ZubyMusic]

Keep the faith.

[@FAFOistheLaw]

​@@ZubyMusicthanks brotha. Keep up the great work man.

[@asparrow9876]

@@ZubyMusic Nah.

[@Madchris8828]

What I appreciate is Zuby actually wants to know the truth while so many just want to throw up staw manning theories and BS to support their own theories. Zuby is great

[@ZubyMusic]

Thank you.

[@barronjames.]

you mean statistics?

[@gloriathomas3245]

You're quite lucky...my cousin who married a girl whom he knew ever since childhood ended up filing for a divorce less than 1 year after they married.

[@Madchris8828]

@@gloriathomas3245 I've figured out that just because you are friends with someone definetly doesn't mean you can live together or are compatible in other ways. Hopefully the divorce wasn't too nasty

[@taliesinhalliday]

Just look at the statistics. No one is 'straw manning' anything.

[@ANISIUBAUCHE]

As A Nigerian Living In Nigeria who grew up with two parents and is well traveled . I can only Mary in an African country. If I ever live in the US or UK it would be very unlikely for me to do so. Its simply stupid getting into a contract with someone who has all the leverage and is incentivized to break the contract and get rewarded for it. Can also get you arrested without substantive evidence and claim emotional, financial and all sorts of abuse, Take half your shit and take your kids. I don't blame those men. The state is on the side of the woman in the west divorce and family court are not equitable. Men are essentially at the mercy of their wives. Let me not even get inter paternity fraud or how prenups can be thrown out the window.

[@MrBenji1059]

ayee broda mi. Im having he same problem given im Nigerian, but was born in the U.S. Im actually think about going to Nigeria & keeping her there

[@josephigoniwari620]

​@@MrBenji1059If you take her to those western countries then you'll be shocked how she would change and become like them. I'm Nigerian living in Nigeria and I can categorically tell you that MOST non Muslim women are almost like their western counterparts

[@jones2277]

and in Nigeria the state is on the side of the man.

[@nnonno3954]

Why do men act like women are not working and paying at least half the bills. You are only walking away with the half you contribute. So basically, you are leaving with your contributions. And let’s not act like men love taking care of their children. Child support is what you pay for the other parent to do most of the heavy lifting. It you want to avoid child support, keep your kids half the time.

[@jones2277]

@@nnonno3954 bingo

[@dynamic75]

This woman, like most, refuses to acknowledge reality. Comparing heart disease to divorce - c’mon man, the individual has far greater control over their own health than the decisions of their partner.

[@forproject1666]

but what you're saying isn't true for all people. you can make a marriage work

[@dynamic75]

@@forproject1666 You can drive a car with your feet if you want to, doesn't make it a good fkn idea. What I said is exactly true. You don't measure anything in life by the exception; you measure it by the rule. Welcome to grown up land.

[@KharnTheBetrayer85]

Tradcons are just as, if not more exhausting than feminists at this point. They don't seem to disagree with RP on a lot of things, they just aren't interested in mitigating the damage that's caused to most men in order to accomplish their ideological goals. It must be the expendable factor as to why they have energy towards throwing men under the bus, instead of changing some laws to make that "contract" at least somewhat useful.

[@chriswhinery925]

Agreed. It frustrates me when people like Jordan Peterson advocate that men just suck it up and get married. I KNOW that JP understands the issues men face, he's had Warren Farrell on his podcast to interview at least once that I remember watching, and yet he still says just do it anyway without offering any solutions to the problems that Warren points out. Conservatives need to understand that "just do it because I say it's for the best" is NOT a compelling argument. Put forth some solutions on how to fix the goddamn problem and then you won't need to even convince people to get married, they'll just naturally start doing it again. Like I get their argument is "it's needed for the good of society" but the problem is that society has nothing but disdain for men these days. Why the fuck should we fall on our own swords to save a society that doesn't value us at all?

[@Wiela4015]

Tradcons & feminists want men to be disposable. If laws change, then men no longer will be disposable as they used to be. That doesn't benefit tradcons & feminists. Both are anti-men.

[@WhoData5816]

@@alvolutionary that's women they usually talk subjectively their world view is limited

[@getmeoffthisrock6]

cmon guys ! ignore the stats, don’t you FEEL like still getting married?? just do it and predict the future or stay celibate for the rest of your life! aren’t these are extremely thought out , non feminine solutions??!

[@bceaser1]

@@chriswhinery925 I couldn't have said it better...MGTOW became a thing because of the very thing your stating.

[@benceze]

I wonder why we think "fault" divorce equals make it hard for them to divorce. What it does is ensure you're divorcing for the right reasons: adultery, battery, non-consummation, abandonment, etc. Meanwhile no-fault divorce just makes a mockery of marriage as a useless institution.

[@bobbob-zc1nx]

Because it kills the incentive to divorce. Judges aren't gonna let someone who commits adultery to get access to the family home or half of the assets. Since women literally get paid to divorce. Sane with child custody

[@lastking235]

How does she come across as someone with a calm demeanor yet so EXHAUSTING to listen to, my goodness. She doesn't get it. Because she doesn't want to.

[@Macheako]

@@jasmitharani9838 ur dum

[@darbyohara]

Cuz she’s a passive aggressive elitist bish who doesn’t genuinely wanna learn. Just wants to shame men into a bad deal

[@MrBobDobolina]

You guys can talk around it all you want but the numbers don't lie - and they are extremely bad for men. Until divorce and family law changes, marriage is simply too risky.

[@ese77ajala39]

Zuby articulated the pain points within this topic so well.

[@micheleosullivan4430]

Marriage and divorce are lucrative industries in the Western world, particularly in the US. The entire process, from obtaining a marriage license to hiring wedding professionals, and eventually engaging divorce attorneys, revolves around substantial financial transactions. Consequently, any potential reforms that could affect the profitability of these industries are unlikely to be passed. In my family, we have three siblings, and we often humorously refer to the middle child as the black sheep. This jest is ironic because he is the only one among us who has successfully maintained a marriage for the past thirty years and has raised three children. Furthermore, they have resided in the same house for over twenty years. Our upbringing stems from a broken home, with parents who married multiple times. Infidelity and instances of abuse were prevalent. Both my other brother and I have experienced divorces and subsequent remarriages, mirroring our parents' patterns. However, rest assured, we have both found stability and love in our current marriages, but it was a challenging journey to reach this point. It is too easy to dip in and out of marriage. Excluding things like abuse (There are many types of abuse), and infidelity. I have no idea what the answers are. This is truly mind-bending and thank you for the thoughtful interview.

[@ZubyMusic]

Thanks for sharing your perspective and experiences.

[@JAKEBrakeModel94]

Thanks for addressing this Zuby. You’re the only conservative minded person who is willing to challenge views held from within conservative circles on marriage. As you said, red pill circles are the only ones addressing these issues young men face without shaming them. Please continue pushing back! Most guys who watch red pill are legitimately just wanting a healthy relationship. Guys who sleep around will do this with or without the red pill... don’t forget that

[@ephraimwinslow]

M: Marriage in the current year represents an existential threat to me. It opens me up to the possibility of being left a penniless pariah if I either fail to correctly identify the woman I'm with as disingenuous, OR fail to meet the woman I'm with's *many* criteria for superficial attraction ("vibe" "spark" "passion" [insert catch-all term for infatuation here]) at any point for any length of time. F: Yeah but you're just being insecure. You should get married anyways. (This is 90% of conversations about this. The empathy gap is insane.)

[@gsquared2394]

F: thats small dick energy. Be confident in yourself and sign this contract that puts half your shit at risk

[@awesomepost3542]

You said it all, I need not add to it.

[@parrotshootist3004]

​@@gsquared2394if you're incapable of empathy maybe you'll just get taken as out to confirm the problem.

[@franknuzzo2576]

Men look at the statistics. Less men are getting married for good reason.

[@ZubyMusic]

If people want to improve the outcomes, we need to take the issue seriously and understand the logic behind it.

[@Nobleheart111]

Yep. Fix the legal system or see marriage as an institution disappear.

[@Scythlin]

In the west at the moment it's a zero sum game for men. A contract (any contract) with the government, local, state, federal is not in your best interest, ever. Sure have your ceremony but introducing the government into your life more so than you need to...why ?

[@ZubyMusic]

That 'why?' needs a good, fair answer.

[@ian_ford]

My parents have been married for 51 years. I'm in my early 40s and never married. I had a fear of rejection that became internally overpowering. So I focused on things I could control; work. No serious regrets, but occasionally I wonder what could have been.

[@duffystrings9680]

Bro. You're a man. You can still have kids.

[@ian_ford]

​@@duffystrings9680 Yes, I’m healthy and could have children. But having kids isn’t about me; it’s about them. I’m not bringing kids into this world at 45-50 and exiting this world before they are 20-25 years old. I want to enjoy their youth, enjoy their activities and I can’t promise that at 55-60 I’m going to physically be able to. I’m not going to be selfish and put them through that at a young age, just because I selfishly wanted to have kids too late in life. His dad had The window for kids closed 5-10 years ago.

[@tyhar7493]

@@ian_ford I've just had my first child at 42 and have another one on the way. My father was 45 when he had his first child (me), it didn't affect me, sure he wasn't able to do every activity with me, but not every father does whatever the age. He did get involved and we found activities that we could do together and that is enough. He is still alive at 86 and active, I will do the same with my children. You're making excuses to reinforce your admitted fears. I thought I'd be okay not having kids but waking up to my little girls smile every morning brings me more joy than I could express.

[@theforcedmemefilthypapist2892]

Ignoring the divorce stats, how many women today even fall into the category of "marriagable"? I'd imagine a very small percentage

[@marriagecausesdivorce7540]

💯% facts. Most women do not have the emotional stability, calmness, patience and tolerance to endure a monotonous and boring 50 year marriage. Women and marriage are antithetical. Women crave excitement, thrills, spills, drama and chaos. Marriage is the complete opposite to this. It doesn't make sense for a women to stay married once she has the diamond wedding ring, house and kids.

[@ZubyMusic]

Low %. And women say the same about men. It's sad. Both are an increasingly small %

[@DManCAWMaster]

​@@ZubyMusicAgreed

[@tedclark7860]

​@@ZubyMusicabout a third of all men don't do social media. 99.9% of women do. That is a disqualifier right there. It shows narcissism. Look at the social medias of women, it's nothing but pictures of themselves

[@crooked52h]

@@ZubyMusicwho is incentivized to break the contract before it’s even made let’s be honest here men have way more reason to not get married . How many men are homeless because of divorce ?!!! How many men get their retirement savings demolished ??!!

[@doctort434]

the point is we live in a post marriage society. the socioeconomic parameters that incentivized monogamy, marriage, the nuclear family and pair bonding have been eroded (i.e female economic empowerment inflation, loss of land based labour, factory and office based production of non communal living conditions etc). marriage is just an expensive and perilous endevour indulged in by men who really are just ignorant

[@mpinganadax3923]

Capitalism really fundamentally broke it.

[@joelt1002]

What about the argument for not cohabitating, still having a wedding, getting married, and never signing a marriage contract or getting legally married. Why get the state involved? Why legally sign over your power and authority to a woman and the state? So basically if the woman leaves, all the money and power and leverage stays in the man’s hands and she has to actually trust him to take care of her instead of having the failsafe of robbing him via the state. Lila would probably squirm hearing something like that because there’s no way she would willingly want to give up her power

[@PipersGrip]

That's what I plan to do, and my church agrees. Marriage is a covenant between man, woman, and God. It is no business of the state. State marriage is very recent in human history.

[@ilikecommenting6849]

So the woman should trust the man but the man shouldn't trust his wife. When it comes to marriage, RP all sound like a bunch of pussies. Scared of a woman lmao.

[@darbyohara]

You have to do that in a non common law state and carefully craft the relationship as well as your assets to protect against her still trying to take you to court

[@pedrocorrea6870]

Men. Go into a state where there is no common law marriage. Tell your woman you will only marry in the church with no marriage license (so you wont be legally married). If she objects, dump her. There is no non-religious argument for marriage. There is no religious argument for legal marriage. If you want to be married for religious reasons, dont sign the contract with the state. Consult a lawyer to make sure this is all possible and you cant be regarded as married latter.

[@tyronevonchadley]

It does not matter what Rose regurgitates, you cannot turn promiscuous women into wives. She has done her part to keep the gynocentric social order and feminism alive.

[@e13kid]

And promiscuous men can’t turn into loyal husbands who provide and protect.

[@susanwjoh0re735]

@@e13kid yest they can. stop lying. you are just trying to cope because you must be one of those women.

[@Shucasm]

@@e13kid yep you are right being a Men mean you will be there for your family always and help your kid grow become a role model so that they can respect you I always hear from Red pill guys that I will have multiple wife or many side Chick bro what will your kid gonna think about you? They will be greatful for the money but won't respect you as a person who was sleeping with another women when he needed you to teach him cycling or when you have three wife and they get to see you only on Monday they won't respect you then so being a high value mean you have high value ,high principle ,high boundary not only for your partner but for yourself so that you will became a role model for your kids so one day your kids will gonna say my father has many option but he choose me that's what make you a high value men not sleeping with 10 women or having 10kids be an example not a disgrace.

[@owusuphilipable]

@@e13kidmen and women are Not the same, not sure why women always try to be like men, though I disagree with cheating, God is against it

[@e13kid]

@@Shucasm Well said.

[@nathantabor6901]

I listed to this whole thing. I have to point this out. Clarifier: I'm happily married with a great life. I have a great job and three sons. But I cannot recommend marriage in good conscience to anyone. It is dangerous, legally speaking. I've watched my father, my brother, my brother in law, my friends get divorced and they all came from good families and good homes. There are zero consequences to breaking a marriage AND there are zero incentives to get married. You CAN get all the benefits of marriage without getting married. Now, to make the point that Lila ALWAYS conveniently forgets (because marriage is always in a woman's best interest and not a mans) is that women will never vote to change the marriage laws, divorce laws, OR the ridiculously broken state of the grinder we call the Family Court System. Women outnumber men. Women always protect the sisterhood. Women don't want monogamy in their prime years but want it when their clock starts to tick down but will shame men into monogamy when men finally hit their stride in their prime years. Marriage used to give a man respect, children (legacy), stake in the community, a pure/chaste/feminine woman that respected him, and a promise of someone who would stick by you through thick and thin. You don't need marriage for that anymore because it DOES NOT provide that exclusive of other methods. Men, you have to know and remember this. Women CAN wake up and falsely accuse you and wreck your life with ZERO consequences. Child support and alimony and reputation destruction can destroy you. The social aspects of culture reinforcing good family life do not exist anymore. Women used ot keep other women in line through setting good examples and shaming bad behavior. That does not exist anymore. So to answer the question. Unfortunately, the Red Pill is not wrong about marriage. You cannot argue with the statistics, the consequences, and the trail of broken lives left in the wake of marriage being torn up like some used oil rag. Marriage isn't marriage anymore. And for those that call me a hypocrite for being married, I found a good woman. RARE. Lucky, call it what you want. It isn't the norm. Also, I didn't really get educated on red pill stuff, evolutionary psychology, until I started seeing divorce destroy the men in my life. Good luck out there.

[@darbyohara]

Amen. I’m not married but my father is successful (as is most of my family) and I’ve never heard the men extol the virtues of marriage to me (the opposite in fact) and I’ve heard men say they wouldn’t go back and do it again (despite being successful at it)

[@darklightjg1]

@nathantabor6901 You're in an interesting position to be both happily married with children and have this outlook on it. I know marriage isn't for me personally, but I wanted to ask, what advice do you think you'll give to your sons if they come to you in the future asking about getting married and/or starting relationships?

[@inosukehashibira5511]

It aint death till do you part its death till she rip your apart

[@samuelcohen2362]

My parents have been happily married for 30 years. I have many sets of Aunts and Uncles married for over 20 and 30 years happily. Only one divorce I can think of in my family, and it was actually a "good" divorce where she didn't screw him over. I am STILL scared to death of getting married. I don't fear the marriage, rather the reality of divorce. Can't even imagine the fear for people who's parents divorced.

[@Golden_Ghoul]

😵🤢Oh Marriage is for sure dead here in the U.S. nothing last. It's become a death sentence now.

[@midasthestallion4105]

Zuby pointed out a very logical point with a very logical conclusion and yet she paused and still fought against it. That part showed me whose interest she's representing. It ain't the men's.

[@whateverhappened2]

Marriage is a terrible contract

[@sqae8398]

Marriage can work for a guy who wants to be married but the abuse and life he will have to lead is hardly worth it for most. You can still have a good marriage if your parents are divorced. The question is why are people getting divorced? All accountability and responsibility has been removed for one of the parties in marriage. The juice isn't worth the squeeze.

[@marriagecausesdivorce7540]

Women get divorced because they get bored and don't need a man. They generally have a job and the backing of the family courts. Men get divorced because they are sick of their wives moaning and complaining about everything, all of the time. Modern women have very high expectations now they are educated, in high paying jobs, get a lot of attention online through social media, etc.

[@S91761]

The "abuse" is the part where you detect before you get married. That's why it's recommended to date at least a few years before getting married. Most of our parents didn't have a choice. They did it for survival. Now that everyone has an income, you don't need to get married after 6 months.

[@ravenzyblack]

@@S91761- Women typically wait until after they’ve had children to divorce. That way they have an insurance policy, not only will they get alimony they also get child support. They don’t call it the “seven year itch” for no reason.

[@S91761]

@@ravenzyblack that's why I also say that marriage isn't for everyone. People are getting married too soon. I believe that there is no way you would get a surprise divorced after a few years without knowing any red flags. So, it's partially their fault and also the f*cked up system that allows women to benefit. I'm surprised why no woman hasn't disappeared yet after pulling that stunt.

[@csquad5071]

The only way your gonna get people to gon toward marriage is to create incentive to do so and remove ALL incentives for those who don’t, to the point where it just makes more sense to marry than not. Zuby is right, the incentive structure for marriages is trash compared to the potential and likely down side to marriage. Ya want marriage back give people a deal they can’t refuse.

[@Polones12]

So true about divorce part. In my workmate son's classroom, he was the only one with both birth parents still married. My wife once called local authorities regarding some paperwork regarding our firstborn (2 years of our marriage at that time). The lady on the phone was surprised we were still married and congratulated us ("Well done!"). We were shocked: does it mean most couples get divorced before 2nd year of marriage? It happened 16 years ago, so now it must be probably even worst, I assume? What is wrong with people now?

[@ravenzyblack]

Yes. Modern women even refer to the first husband a “starter husband.” I’m in my 40’s but the majority of my class mates in high school came from divorced families. It was strange being one of the only families where my parents and grandparents were still happily married. My father came from a big family, and he is the only one of his male siblings that didn’t get divorce at least once.

[@RiotforPeacePlz]

Don't forget the mindset tho. Think it was Britney that got married and divorced like 13 hours later? That basically says marriage is a joke. Marriage should basically be permanent. Make people know their partners before and are sure they will stick with them.

[@taliesinhalliday]

The subject has been done to death. We all know there is nothing in marriage for men. The contract actually pays women to break it. All it does is expose men to high risk of loss. Men are being turned into slaves to paying alimony and child support or go to prison. Zuby is not very good at telling how it really is. He is still in the 'being reasonable' stage. The woman here is also repeatedly clueless to it happening to men.

[@ravenzyblack]

She’s not clueless about it. She just still thinks men need to “suck it up” and do it for the benefit of society. She wants an organization that caters to single mothers. She will make every excuse in the book for them getting pregnant out of wedlock, but she’ll lambaste man for not getting married or not marrying a single mother. I find it hypocritical of her that she’s willing to give grace to these women, but she can’t do the same for men.

[@theaniebeanie123]

My parents were together for 30+ years. They were together till my mother passed away from cancer. Both my husbands parents and both our grandparents stayed together and I pray me and my hubby do too. It makes me sad that it isn't the norm. I pray my daughter has the same forever marriage. The way the culture is now worries me though. Probably another reason why STD's are so high now as well.

[@asparrow9876]

The world is cooked. I'm just waiting for the asteroids. If I could advise God on ONE thing, it would be to start judgment day early... We're done here, let's close the show & roll the credits.

[@soup-nazi6824]

Feminists ruined the west...

[@marriagecausesdivorce7540]

In my parents and grandparents generation, men and women needed each other. However, this link has been broken now women have jobs and the backing of the family courts. Because women don't need men, they now have very high standards for men (e.g. emotional vulnerability) which most men can't meet over a 50 year marriage. Please interview "The Lead Attorney". He can explain why a traditional 50 year marriage is no longer realistic.

[@chrisgg2026]

Sorry laws need to change before promoting marriage. Laws hurt men in divorce so why bother

[@desertrose0601]

I’m realizing how blessed I am to be in the family I am. My parents have been married nearly 50 years now. My grandparents on both sides had 60-70 year marriages. Of my parent’s 7 siblings, only 2 have been divorced, the rest are still successfully married for decades. Of my 30+ cousins, again I think only 2 have had any sort of divorce or separation, the rest married and a few still single and not sleeping around. Somehow I’m still single but not for lack of a good example. I think I’m just an extreme introvert. God willing, someday I’ll find my mate.

[@marriagecausesdivorce7540]

Good luck to you. Your parents and grandparents marriages don't count as they had to stay together for survival and social reasons. However your siblings and cousins are very impressive. Main thing is, don't rush into marriage. If you do rush in, you will probably end up regretting it for the rest of your life. If you are going to do marriage, vet her properly, chose wisely, and consider getting a pre-nup.

[@ZubyMusic]

Similar situation to my family. This is a rarity in many Western nations now.

[@badassdahn654]

MGTOW knows. Stay MGTOW fellas. God bless men

[@catfishunter28]

Im not opposed to marriage, but ive seen so many people become financially ruined over it. Not to mention the fact theyre treated like second-class citizens when it comes to their children.

[@mark4d101]

She is self-righteous U C The look on her face when she said don't be sleeping around with women😅😅

[@agricolaregs]

14 years in. 1 child. Had about 5 hard years. Marriage isn’t about being happy all the time. It’s about duty. Through that duty, you can find happiness. But you can’t just give up. More in love now than ever. But what if we just have up during the difficult times….duty got us through.

[@stewartmullings1552]

11:26 "All of these people are victims of the sexual revolution and ideologies that broke their families, that broke their spirits, that distorted their sense of purpose and really their whole understanding of what it means to be human. And so now, there's just chaos." I think about this all the time and this was worded very well. There are many revolutions going on and the sexual revolution is the most pervasive as it touches basically every aspect of our lives. I think a lot of it is DEEPLY misguided. Many of our institutions and understandings of things may have had their flaws, but the reaction of thinking everything needs to be torn down and rebuilt is nonsense. There are kinks in the system so you iron those out, don't break a solid foundation for no reason. We should be seeing improvements but we aren't. We see things getting worse and people deluding themselves into thinking it's better. Many people think revolution for revolution's sake and change for change's sake is inherently good but it really isn't.

[@tannerbryan1890]

The comparison with heart disease is poor. As you don’t need marriage to be happy. If you have a true passion, you can just throw yourself into it. Like music or art or whatever it is

[@MrVvulf]

4:22 Lila's argument here is disingenuous, non sequitur, AND a straw man fallacious point. Quite the trifecta. What the hell does heart disease have to do with the point being discussed? Zuby's point was about marriage statistics and his question was "Since 40-50% of marriages fail, and 70-80% of divorces are initiated by women...why WOULDN'T a rational man second guess the whole proposition (of marriage)?"

[@Wiela4015]

☕

[@paulcarfantan6688]

Yeah that was a pretty bad comparison. You can tell she really doesn`t get the men`s point of view. I could see her telling her boyfriend; "Come on go into the woods and fight that grisly bear with you bear hands so that you can impress me. Come on don`t be so negative, it doesn`t mean you`ll necessarily be killed. Meanwhile I`ll stay here safely in the chalet and I`ll prepare you a nice cup of hot chocolate for when you come back....oh, I mean, if you come back". Yeah, I don`t think so, no thank you buttercup. Lol.

[@MrJimmy3459]

Well 80% of first time businesses fail yet many redpillers tell me to open their own business? Why who in their right mind would open a business with those stats?

[@marcmuwanga68]

Yeah I heard her say that and concluded she wasn't as bright as she imagined herself to be.

[@paulcarfantan6688]

*bare hands

[@b.bigdaddy]

The fact that there's enough space to talk about such issues in the west is still a positive. We can't even discuss these issues among family members in others parts of the world, in my case Arab speaking communities in the Arab world. There are plenty of striking similarities (we're all human apparently). Just can't see myself getting married this easily since every one comes with a baggage they don't wanna address and want others to fix for them, and I'm speaking both genders.

[@obviouslyasockpuppet]

There are many reasons why men don't wanna get married and I feel that Lila isn't doing a good job addressing most of them. 1) Most marriages end in divorce. Most divorces are initiated by women. This is important because divorce can (and usually does) leave a man financially worse off than before he met his now ex-wife. It's huge risk. She's not given me a good reason why I should take the risk. What reward will I get? I ask because... 2) The women themselves, an overwhelming majority have become quite intolerable. Walking down the street I just see ladies I want absolutely nothing to do with. Their values don't match mine, they drink like fish, swear like sailors, have multiple tatoos and are materialistic and shallow to the core. Such a person will be a headache to live with. Men want someone we can solve problems with not someone coming to add problems for us to solve. Lila has acknowledged that marriage is a huge risk but what I've never heard her talk about is the fact that even if men decided to man up most women aren't worthy and that's not something any man can ignore. What Lila and the other tradcons need to realize is that in order to fix marriage, society must first fix the problems on the female end first. Not holding my breath though because not even the conservatives will acknowledge that women and government interference are the problem not marriage.

[@marriagecausesdivorce7540]

The women have become "intolerable" because they now have delusional high standards. They have delusional high standards because they now have high paying jobs and the backing of the family courts if something goes wrong it the marriage. Marriage in 2023 is a fool's errand. Society and expectations surrounding marriage has completely changed.

[@asaptenebrae2240]

Thanks for laying it down clearly and properly. They claim they want to solve the issue but always forget to adress the causes. And they use caricatures like Tate and co to ignore those points and paint men as toxic blablabla

[@S91761]

You said some important things there. I agree. Fixing the system would maybe decrease the number of divorces because women won't see the benefit for divorce but instead of divorces, you will have unsuccessful marriages. So the underlying issues need to be fixed. Marriage isn't needed for survival like our grandparents and getting marriage after 6 months is unnecessary today. So, people need to take more time to know each other. Self improve, study people and have self-awarness.

[@ilikecommenting6849]

For most men, there is almost no significant risk: less than 10% of divorce included alimony settlements. What happens in almost al cases: 1) no alimony 2) if you own a home, the party that is able to afford it will stay there and buy out the other party 3) the other party will go rent a place 4) probably there will be child support. If you have a problem paying for your children than you're a loser anyways. For work, I have seen HUNDREDS of divorce papers: the overwhelming majority (95%) are amicable.

[@marriagecausesdivorce7540]

@@ilikecommenting6849 a lot of your comments are fundamentally flawed. For example, I do not technically or legally pay alimony each month because I got rid of that obligation by increasing the share of the house that my wife was awarded (70%). So although I do not legally pay alimony (I made still lost money in alimony by giving up a greater share of my former house). As you say, 95% of the paperwork is amicable but divorce paperwork doesn't say amicable or non-amicable. After paying thousands in legal fees trying to fight against the system/judges, men give up and concede to the wife's demands in order to stop her doing parental alienation and in order to stop the crushing legal fees. There is a reason why marriage is going extinct in many Western countries. It is way too dangerous for men. Hence the creation of pre-nups in some countries.

[@wecx2375]

Marriage has been dead for awhile. Better adapt, gentleman, or suffer the consequences.

[@lanazak773]

I think if I were a man I’d probably go my own way too. People can change and a good partner can turn into a different person over time.

[@dwwoodsjr]

They are disingenuous when they they act like they don't understand why men don't want to marry.

[@dksparticles3187]

There comes a point in life where “it can’t get any worse”. Once you have been there and if you are lucky enough to find a real person to be with, you don’t think/care about the risks of failure. You think of the possibilities of success and you give it your all to succeed.

[@Kookaburger]

The problem with a lot of tradcons is that they tend to be idealistic about men and marriage…and idealism disconnects u from reality

[@paulcarfantan6688]

Spot on.

[@tj6544]

Interestingly, my parent were married till old age and never divorced. I have been married for 14 years and if i were to do it again i probably would not marry again. Especially in going to court to sign a marriage contract. Too many things can go wrong. It is a form of indentured servitude. A woman can decide to make your life miserable and there is nothing you can do about it.

[@noazucar519]

Yep. I every aunt (except for one) on my dad's side ended up divorced. And my parents argued often when I lived with them. That's why I'm hesitant about marriage. (I still want to though.)

[@KangTheDigitalNomad]

I've always mentioned to tradcons in the #CrimsonCapsulel space You want the space to adopt a mindset and WON'T COME OUT AND SAY WHAT YOU ARE ***REALLY*** PUSHING which is fine. However, it's a long uphill battle I hope you reach this goal because

[@averageaussieentertainment1817]

I love that she couldnt answer a simple yes or no question haha Zuby said to take love (emotion) out of the equation and look at it purely as a business contract, gave the stats and ask simply would you sign it and she just couldnt give a logical answer and had an emotional response haha I dont think she understands how much damage feminism and social media has done to the younger generations of women and is living is this ideal world that marriage is like it was during her parents day.

[@dogsenseforu301]

IMO weddings should be small and with each significant anniversary the celebrations should become bigger.... If a couple is fortunate enough to reach a 50 yr anniversary (health also plays a part obvs) there should be a 'Thank You celebration' worthy of a Hello style spread given by all those who've been influenced by their example.

[@wolfsomething]

That actually makes alot of sense and I will now implement that in the future

[@jeremyshaw3846]

If Marraige Laws are designed to Persecute Men ......Why would a Man want to get Married ?......

[@jacobsmith1997]

My parents have been married for 30 years and I'll never get married. I knew it in highschool and haven't even bother with a serious relationship since I was 26.

[@properpolymath2097]

I love Zuby's take on "conzervatism"

[@nickawobasivwe9312]

I'm glad I live in a traditional continent like Africa. Our currency may not be as strong as the dollar, but we all know money alone will never give you true joy so I'm not stressing. Although there are low quality people everywhere men and women, majority of the people are still good, moral people who uphold traditional values.

[@icebough4191]

Zuby has one of the best attitude me twords this issue We need more red pill aware men in the Christian space

[@Mrs.Laetitia]

What an amazing conversation ! ❤

[@ChosenPlaysYT]

Have to stop the infinite money insane payments for leaving. Like go ahead and leave that’s fine you should be free to do so. But you shouldn’t become insanely wealthy because you left someone.

[@charlesfontaine1663]

zuby you have a lot of good point.. but few time a feel the girl just keep interrupted your train of thought when she's not agreed with your point

[@pracs3377]

Good talk💚

[@s.g.3898]

After 22 years of marriage, my wife stopped taking her bipolar meds. She went a bit nuts and I ended up in a homeless shelter. Not every woman will do this, but every single one has the legal power to do so at a moments notice. Why in the name of all that is good would I take such a risk again? I will not be living with one again, but may date while living apart For a guy, marriages can be great, right up until they stop being great. We did have some good years and two great kids

[@ilikecommenting6849]

How about you think about why you married a mentally unstable person in the first place? Medicated or not, terrible idea to marry mentally unstable people. Your own fault

[@decayingautarch302]

You screwed up at bipolar. Waaaaaay to risky.

[@s.g.3898]

@@decayingautarch302 Sadly, you can have a bunch of good years before things like that happen

[@jalisazari9387]

Glad you won't remarry. However 64% men get remarried after divorce. I often wonder why. Vs 52% women.

[@menopillion9853]

7:35: "The incentive structure for state sanctioned marriage in the USQ and many other countries is poor." Yup, and that is exactly in line with RP. Until the family court industrial complex is overhauled, and the incentives SUPPORT marriage then the risk is just too high. Also, I know Lila Rose was trying to draw a similar comparison to heart disease, but she made the red pill point. Heart disease is kills a lot of people, but you don't need to end yourself early. It is preventable. So, like how marriage is broken today and you can prevent the damage, you can prevent the damage of heart disease.

[@adb2u]

DO NOT SIGN A MARRIAGE LICENSE. Just do the ceremony

[@zsedcftglkjh]

Amen!

[@crackcrock]

depends on the court system

[@iggs67]

Just marry a woman who won't leave? Why wouldn't she if the laws are skewed so much and she will get everything. How about removing no fault divorce laws and make paternity tests mandatory. Every child born inside or outside marriage has to be tested. It won't stop cheating, but it will save men from paying for someone else's child even after divorce.

[@factsondeck1552]

This is like arguing with a slave master on why she should free her slaves 😂

[@AG-io5wr]

Men now know very well that the marriage contract is between his personal finances, his child's welfare and the state. And the state will, if necessary, send the goons with guns.

[@gloriathomas3245]

My cousins situation is a prime reason why people aren't getting married anymore.... the girl he married but ended up getting a divorce from was someone he knew ever since childhood. For the record they ended up filing for divorce less than 1 year after they got married. As for marriage in general is now becoming a risk and an economic/financial one at that. Sad to say to overall too many people walking into marriage with the wrong ideas but instead false ones. This is a recipe for quick divorces. Beyond that people should be able to dictate what sort family arrangements they unlike efforts by conservatives to force marriage unto people.

[@km47804]

People are selfish. We have been taught in the last 30 years to make ourselves happy first, if you’re unfulfilled just quit, participation trophies, no grit…marriage is a sacrifice! Children/parenting is a sacrifice! We are not meant to just do whatever we want when we want and everything and everyone else is disposable. Happiness and purpose comes from being of SERVICE! Marriage and parenting is difficult service but you get back what you put into it.

[@michaelpriest0]

'Conservatives' could advocate to change the divorce laws and remove the risk.... nah... lets just tell men to be better...

[@impudentdomain]

I worked with a few young men in my last job who had NEVER seen a marriage that worked out up close. Hard to convince them that its a good thing.

[@salguodrolyat2594]

At this point that is pure gaslighting.🤣🤣

[@balerion77]

It's not Should could and would. It's about what IS. Men Adapt and after watching countless men get destroyed , brothers , father's Ending themselves etc. Men aree just being Logical and realistic which Women ofcourse have to shame with the S.I.G.N. language like Terrified , insecure etc. I've seen this woman couple times talking , she maybe a good person but most of what she talks on men's marriage issue & High Status men Being Polygynous , It's all LA La Land stuff. 'Just Select Better ' , 'exercise self control' stuff like that. Women that are religious are not so far off , women as a whole are literally incentivised from all sides to Leave at a whim , and not just leave but destroy everything the man built including business relationships, friendships etc. I want to see if she Practiced Self control of her Biological needs. I really want to see if she went for a man Much Shorter than her , Weaker than her , Less earning , Less competent, less intellect etc. I really want to see if she had self- Control of her biological hypergamous nature. Men's need to be Polygynous and Women's Hypergamous nature Intersect perfectly only when men become High Status /Value , Top 10% . So , Polygyny Happens, Women's Hypergamy allows them to Share the Man however They see fit as Biology Overrides all the religious stuff at the very top , since beginning of humans and even before religion.

[@macsuarez11]

My parents are still together after 50 years. However, that's not the norm and the culture any more. Shes refusing to listen to mens experience, shes refusing to acknowledge the pain men go through in divorce. Dont bother arguing a point with anyone whose not willing to listen and learn.

[@alexmason8557]

11:08 men killing themselves because they can't see their kids after divorce. Women most effected because contraceptives 😢

[@sofaking98]

What if marriage was set as a prenup automatically with ground rules being set for any situation that may occur or at least the major ones that occur and agreed upon with the stagnant rule of in the case of a child being born it's a mandatory two-decade marriage with no divorce, parents don't have to live in the same house but must live within a certain radius in an agreed upon state, etc.? of course with divorce exceptions for cases of child abuse, etc.

[@marcmuwanga68]

Did that simpleton just compare divorce to heart issues??😂😂 She may not be as brilliant as she imagines herself to be. The two are vastly different things that shouldnt be used as argumentative comparisons.😂 A more accurate comoarison would be saying that heart disease can be caused by eating a certain thing or doing a certain thing 70-80% of the time. Then you decide if you should do or eat that oarticular thing.

[@carolynngockel3670]

My parents are divorced. My grandparents on one side were divorced. The other side were miserable. It took me into my 30s to be ready for marriage. I was a mess before that. I was lucky, I knew I was messed up and took steps to make myself marriageable because I knew I wanted to be married. I read evidence based advice from Gottman and also studied families that were intact. My husband's parents are together, which has helped. His brain just doesn't compute divorce as an escape hatch.

[@inosukehashibira5511]

No they right about marriage you get married nowdays you a fool no fault divorce and i dont want to hear prenups them shits get thrown out all the time

[@Peteristrate]

Well, I'm not surprised sje doesnt understand. Im a man and I fully understand and aubscribe to whay Zuby is saying. With that being said, it doesnt mean I don't plan a "marriage". But I just won't get the state involved (at least as much as possible). Ill try to keep it as much undergrpund as possible: of official papers, no ceremony, no nothing. If she loves me, she'll be woth me withiut having to blow the trumpets to eberybody else.

[@theadventuregeneralist7024]

Zuby nails a point for the religious right that they don't want to accept. Fingerwagging and bible thumping will not convince the young generation to get married. I am one of those individuals. In a monogamous relationship rearing children but to enter into a legal marriage in the US right now is one of the dumbest decisions a young man can make. Besides a slight tax break (which isn't worth the risk) there are precisely zero reasons to enter into a government sanctioned marriage if you aren't a religious person.

[@ilikecommenting6849]

Religious people have a much stronger morality when it comes to family and marriage. For you, marriage is apparently a tax break that's not worth the risk. Do you seriously think you could make a marriage work with that attitude? For a religious person: marriage is a sacred vow between man and woman. To unite under one new house and under one new family. Each act must serve to benefit the family. So, which person is more likely to have a lasting marriage? Someone who thinks its a tax break (and will probably marry someone who thinks its just a party) OR Someone who views it as the most important and sacred decision of their life?

[@theadventuregeneralist7024]

@@ilikecommenting6849 It's possible that you are morally superior but I doubt it and your reading comprehension skills could use some work. If you'll notice, I used the term "legal marriage" for a reason. What you are speaking of is a ceremonial representation of two people committing themselves to each other and to god for the rest of their lives which I have no issues with and think is the best way to raise kids. Legal marriage is getting a marriage license recognized through the state/gov that comes with legal ramifications. The reason I mention tax benefits is because that is the only benefit I can think of "LEGAL MARRIAGE". Again I'll reiterate that I am talking about getting the government involved, not what you do between yourself, your wife, and your church.

[@ravenzyblack]

@@ilikecommenting6849- Who are you kidding? The divorce rate amongst religious people is not that far off from non-religious people. They’re just bigger hypocrites about it. Also the new Christian is all tattooed up and has a body count almost equal to that other non-Christian counterpart. They are just better at lying about it…”born again virgin” is a common term used by women who now go to church.

[@Canucklehead557]

Best experience to have if you're thinking about getting married. Get divorced first, then you'll understand why marriage is a scam.

[@shin-ishikiri-no]

Yes, become a slave to a woman who uses "love" to con you into a contract that almost exclusively benefits her... and if you refuse, she's gone. Which pretty clearly indicates she never loved you to begin with. Just be a slave bro.

[@georgesontag2192]

Men, get this staight - if you have a house, children and savings. You are going to lose 75% of everything you own. You become homeless. You lose your children. If you count child support, by definition, you lose everything. Its not half like everyone says on youtube.

[@heatsuckmy]

this was a conversation between 2 very privileged individuals lol. not holding anything against them personally but they literally made the argument and then said “if you didn’t grow up like this you won’t understand” they didn’t say a single thing that’ll help others get into healthy relationships and bashed an entire movement all in 15 mins lol.

[@John-78]

There is no reason to marry a woman once her best years are behind her. That is the trade. I get your best years and then I don't leave you when you lose your looks, right as I am entering my prime.

[@ReigningFlame]

1. There need to be more incentives to be and stay married governmental, and decentralized divorce and remove no fault divorce. 2. Make it school curriculum on family building and personal finances.

[@damienbates]

Better tax incentives are a good reason to get married! Of course just about every thing else is worse for men in marriage. There are a few things that could make the marriage contact better, like default 50/50 custody, caps on spousal and child support (10K month maximum), assets division should be limited to only those earned during marriage, post marriage assets go with the person that came with them, spousal support limited to 4 years maximum. Theses are just a few changes, courts should provide community arbitration managers that can guide a couple through a quick divorce with children, without the need for a lawyer.

[@Nick-qf5zl]

As a man the only way I would get married is if I planned on having kids with my partner. Im not religious, and I see no incentive to involve the state in my relationship. Especially when there is a financial incentive for the women to leave. My parents are still together but about 50% of my aunts and uncles have been divorced, usually not on good terms.

[@WhoData5816]

Even religious people are not celibate this lady used to think because you're Christian or Muslim you can have good marriage

[@richardy2071]

it's not a self fulfilling prophecy it's statistical analysis.