Is the Rogal Dorn the new TOP tank!? | 10th Edition | Astra Militarum Tactics

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[@MordianGlory]

So a few people have commented that they believe the Leman Russ should be classed as a medium tank rather then a heavy. This is an interesting topic so I am going to pin a comment here so people can discuss it if they wish. Of course, be polite to each other and respect others opinions even if you don't agree with them. Rude comments will be removed Personnaly, I am going to stick to my guns and say it is a Heavy tank. In comparison to the tanks of other factions, the Russ has always been much much tougher and often also with more guns. For example, stack the Russ up next the following. Predator, Fire Prism, Dune Crawler, Skorpius Disintegrator, Hammerhead, Castigator, Vindicator, Falcon, All the Primaris Gladiators. These are what I would class as Medium Tanks. In all of these example, the Russ has higher tougness, more wounds, a better save and often it has more weapon systems. Within the Imperial Guard motor pool, I also see it as a Heavy Vehicle. Armoured Sentinels are the Guards light armour, Hellhounds Chassis are the Medium and Russes are the Heavy. I am not including the chimera or specialist units, like the scout sentinel, in this comparison as they have a primary purpose other then directly engaging and fighting the enemy. Please feel free to agree or disagree with me, and I look forward to reading any replies

[@briansteiner2886]

Well there's no rule stating that you can only have one model of heavy tank. In real life, the Soviet Union alone had the KV, T-34, IS, and other series of heavy tanks during WW2. Even some modern militaries have mixes of cheaper Eastern tanks backed up by Western models, so GW adding more heavies to the Guard makes sense. On another note, I'm wondering what the alternate iterations of the Dorn are going to be like. I'm kinda liking the idea of choosing between a twin standard weapon or a more powerful single weapon.

[@Creeperslay-ey1gn]

My Opinion is that in the context of Gaurd Tanks, the Leman Russ occupies a Medium Tank Role, balanced around fire support, speed and durability. The Hellhound Chassis occupies a Light Tank Role due to it’s lower durability and fire support capability, and the Dorn is a Heavy Tank due to it’s increased durability and massive fire support capability, rivaling actual super heavy tanks like the Macharius. Obviously this is subjective but I think it’s important to come at this from the context of Guard Armor, because one faction’s heavy tank (like the Gladiator Reaper for SM) is Guard’s medium.

[@Ms.Whiskertoria]

​@Creeperslay-ey1gn I agree although I would suggest the more modern terminology of Main Battle Tank or MBT instead of Medium. Light and Heavy are fine though

[@Josh-zd9pq]

Compared to other factions the russ is definitely a heavy tank but I think in the guard index it is a mbt.

[@jakethedogtrainer985]

I agree that it’s a heavy tank 100%

[@wyatttyson7737]

I’ve taken a Dorn in 5 games of 10th, and its only died in two of those. The first was when the Admech player cheated, had his Kastellan Robots use the Doctrina they don’t get and then advanced, shot, and charged into melee, and even then it survived the first volley, his melee phase, my melee phase, and then his melee phase again. The other time was when Björn the Fell Handed managed to get a few lucky wounds through and then charged around turn 4. Even then, the Dorn took Björn with it in the explosion!

[@dustinmckay4953]

Ablative plating has to be declared before the save roll takes place, attacks are allocated immediately after the wound roll but before the save roll

[@zachsilby4569]

Glad to know I was able to snag one just in time for them to be impossible to get. Now if only the codex allows for a Dorn Tank Commander.

[@dasheavy101]

who says you can't lol? I did a friendly match with a buddy and he didn't mind...granted, probably regretted it later, but it was a friendly match for bragging rights, not some tournament and whatnot

[@violet9214]

My favorite part about the Rogal Dorn is that it looks extremely similar to an M6 Heavy Tank

[@Adlore]

My theory is that all new guard models will be US WW2 aesthetics. Hoping we see a smoother baneblade, chimeras, hellhounds in the same style! Best part about guard is that the models will still fit with the old

[@markdorn8873]

Check out Grim Prints, the King Tiger. All the Dorn but with German flavor. Für Krieg!

[@latch9781]

Huh, it does doesn't it

[@dasheavy101]

...I could see it if it isn't dual wielding cannons lol

[@Dovakhin94]

Take a look at the french ARL 44 tank. The design of the tracks are almost identical

[@Muzza8888]

Incorrect on ablative plating: p22 of cure rules, allocate attack is BEFORE the saving throw, so you have to zero the damage before you get a save.

[@MordianGlory]

Ah good to know, thank you for the catch

[@timothyharnedy4495]

It's still super powerful that you get to wait until after your opponent has rolled to hit and wound though.

[@renevil2105]

I combo my dorn with exterminator leman russ with it ability to add ap-1 to friendly astra units that hit the same target. Helps taking down enemy heavy units.

[@NoName-lo9ym]

If the Twin Battle Cannon was D6+6 shots it might compete with the Oppressor + Autocannon. Sadly its not significantly better than a Russ' battlecannon and so like the Macharius Twin Battlecannon it is meh.

[@troutwarrior6735]

There’s so few orders available in 10th that it seems to me that you’d be best having your tank orders on a small amount of very elite tanks. I’m building a list with 2 dorns and a baneblade, can’t wait to see how it goes 😂

[@whitemiasma5288]

What Baneblade are you planning on taking friend?

[@troutwarrior6735]

@@whitemiasma5288 I was planning on the classic Baneblade , I love the look of the "Bis Ass Battle Tank" as Mordian calls it xD

[@whitemiasma5288]

@@troutwarrior6735 That's what I have been doing. The HBs are great; and for that reason I am thinking of using a different one. Really terrible though: once you start to take one, they're there in every list......

[@JasperXoR]

Awesome. This is how I'm starting out my build. Maybe BaneSword

[@Josurr_Madhawk]

I was thinking of a Banehammer personally.

[@niko_aetherious]

I love the dorn, and I am so happy about the fact that I was able to snag three of them. Only issue is trying to maneuver them along with the rest of my vehicles around terrain. Now I just wish we could get a new light scout tank, or bring back the salamander.

[@zielisawzielony9366]

Are they bigger than russ tank?

[@niko_aetherious]

@@zielisawzielony9366 yeah, they are a bit chonky, about half way between a russ and a baneblade

[@TheTobaccoman]

I just love my different sizes of tanks. Russ , Dorn and Baneblades ! Oh my

[@gilesparkes2922]

Great video, noticed the slide of the data card just crops the keywords Squadron and Smoke. If you are not using a super heavy a Dorn does a good place to focus all your multipliers and buffs. I only just have 4x Russ and I am tempted by the Dorn. The problem I have is that most players making a list will be packing enough firepower to take out a Knight and 2-3 marine tanks, both the Dorn and Russ seem overcosted in comparison to most factions. It's a lot of player skill to co-ordinate: Remain Stationary get LOS to the target, Take aim, use Scout Sentinel ability, hit with the Exterminator (-1AP WHail 🐳) and play Fields of Fire. I irks me like a metal fluffer that Marine tanks seem better value, start with a BS3+ and can just 'Oath and Go'

[@BloodBuffalo]

I faced a Dorn using my blood angels and it caused me PROBLEMS

[@jaredisley-oliver389]

First game I played my dorn (fully painted one at that) I popped two Dark Eldar Barges with one shot of the oppressor cannon. I had never done that in a game before. Instantly my favourite tank

[@scottcairns2933]

How is this possible with one weapon activation

[@jaredisley-oliver389]

@@scottcairns2933I shot at one barge and it exploded after my opponent rolled a 6. And it did enough wounds to another one within 6” and it chainlinked over tho that one and he rolled another 6 for it to explode!

[@JohnAnderson-kb1nf]

Well done on calling out the gotcha moment. Honourable play should be something we all strive towards. Much respect.

[@nathangreig5884]

I still want a dorn, spent an hour at warhammer fest looking for an alleged hidden at the back dorn on the sheveles,couldnt find it so went with loads of horseys, one day ill have a dorn, gonna give it twin battle cus it reminds me of mammoth tanks from c and c, ahhh nostalgia

[@rileysmith7763]

Tom, the editing on this looks really nice!! Noticeable update in vid quality (no offense to Mordian’s old editing)

[@MordianGlory]

None taken, my editing was terrible

[@oblivionfan345Tony]

Maybe future rules will let you take squadrons of Russ's but they have to remain in a unit. Would help with orders and it's what sort of happens naturally when you bring lots of them anyways

[@jejesiqu2967]

A video on the guard's flying units please.

[@MordianGlory]

Already done! kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKSueJeoYrF6j5Y

[@keithsimpson2685]

Wish tank came with an extra plate/ERA panels we could magnetize to it to track the ability WSYWIG style

[@aurokin]

Love the corps and love this tank. Looking forward to your take!

[@SAMcGarvey1]

OK, but have you considered the Oppressor, gatling, multi meltas and heavy stubbers. Oppressor, auto Cannon and multi meltas will put anything you want in the pain zone, and the minigun / machine gun combo nets you 30 shots out the front.

[@MordianGlory]

Thats not a bad call!

[@SAMcGarvey1]

@MordianGlory it served me so strongly in 9th. Haven't gotten in a game with the guard yet for 10th, but seriously, mobile oppression palace. Dakka all day, and when stuff comes to stop you, melta it down

[@boutinpowered8373]

The best tank is the Stormlord because of the ability to shoot Heavy Weapons Teams, Primaris Psykers and Ratlings from it.

[@ACST97]

Literally picked up a Dorn yesterday, looking forward to adding it to the ever expanding armoured division.

[@syntheticjester1162]

I like the oppressor cannon still on the daka Dorn, getting it tied up in combat isn’t so bad and the Autocannon isn’t blast so firing it into combat can help clear even heavy infantry

[@andrewkennedy9134]

Ive returned to Imperial Guard....er sorry, Astra Militarum for 10th and am loving the new minis. The Dorn took my eye the second it was released....I love its looks and classic Militarum chonkiness. Its bristling with guns and tough as old boots....whats not to love ??

[@lordravenblade]

It must have been a different video I commented this, but the Coaxial part of the Coaxial Battle Cannon is the reason it's got a 3+ BS. Back in the day, the coax on a Baneblade (and maybe other tanks? I know there was one with a coax stubber but dont remember its name or any others) got a to-hit bonus if you fired the Coax at the same target and first because it would "range in" the big gun. I guess GW decided giving the big gun a bonus was too much and gave it to the coax instead.

[@wolfhunter98]

I kinda want to make one like the one at 4:02. Very Hetzer / Jagdpanzer tank like.

[@joshuasutherland6692]

You'll always want at least some Russes cuz there's so many different ones to choose from. Running more lets you splash a hella specialized Russ' like a Vanq or a Punisher if you wanna spice it up.

[@tommothedog]

Assuming all tanks are based somewhat off of real world counterparts, Hellhound would be a light tank at the most. Its essentially an up armoured IFV in lore. Leman russ would have been considered a medium, considerong it sits somewhat between a sherman and a Grant in design. Ps. The dorn looks like a KV/IS chassis with an early IS turret design.

[@MordianGlory]

Real life lore I agree, table top reality the Hellhound is Surprisingly tanky!

[@jagermeister_1754]

I took two dorns into a 1k point list with both configurations. And they did rather well!!

[@rodrigueoneil3328]

Hello, you can send the list? I tant make the same but i dont know ?

[@sweetsilver8016]

Must be a small battle line

[@jagermeister_1754]

@@sweetsilver8016 yes. 20man squad, command and Sentinels

[@sweetsilver8016]

@@jagermeister_1754 so what is the strat for 2 RDBT

[@PitFriend1]

I wish we had at least the 9th edition Tank Ace ability to give a Rogal Dorn or super heavy tank the ability to issue an order, even to itself. Or even to make one of the other Leman Russ variants a Tank Commander. It seems silly that the commander of an armored unit wouldn’t be in the biggest and baddest vehicle around. Either that or being able to give an Officer an Enhancement that lets him issue orders to Squadron units. It seems silly to have to call out the Lord Solar of the entire Segmentum just for an infantry officer to give vehicles orders.

[@operator9858]

If you want more background music you should try the sega shadowruns sound track. Seems right up your alley lol

[@kingdragune1238]

Ive been recently getting into genestealer cult and was wondering if you have an opinion over there brood brothers rules, being able to bring a quarter of there force in astra militarum but with no orders or epic heroes. Was thinking about a shadowsword and sentinel for 490 points.

[@h.s.lafever3277]

rongal dorn is just a bane blade, but made by the mini cooper company... or its the EV version of bane blade if Imperial forces went 'green'

[@mr.deadpoolio7057]

Literally just got a dorn for my birthday haha!

[@adamcarey6093]

Finally!! the Dorn review!

[@gpilley1]

As a new player to the Guard, would it be a viable option to have both the Russ and the Dorn in your army or is it better to stick with one type. I am thinking of the tactic of almost using the russ as a bit of shield for the dorn hit the anti tank weapons at the beginning of a fight while most or all of your tanks are there and then keeping your dorn remaining you can use that to keep the fire power up on other things? Would this work or just be a silly idea?

[@striderfox71]

"Rapier laser destoryers go brrrrr"

[@ericmumper6821]

For only about 85 points more, I think it's a no-brainer. We have a really great defensive vehicle strategem, orders, abilities like the tech-priest which all target only one unit. So if you're looking for maximum durability, synergy and damage for your points, I think the Dorn is the way to go in most cases.

[@waterooster65]

Based on my and my buddies' understanding, the ablative plating (and stealth drones for that matter) only effect one successful wound roll. Great against lascannons/meltas/xenos equivalents. But big blast weapons with d6+3 attacks, you're only going to block one of those successful wound rolls.

[@BR4IN1N4J4R]

Can I get a feedback idea for a concept army? Penal Legion mostly infantry list because WGA has lovely guard squads for relatively cheap.

[@patykaarplegos6282]

I've tried it twice, and both times it kinda whiffed. Has the support of scout sentinels and an exterminator but dang did it not do a lot. Then it died to a really lucky volcano Lance from a castellan

[@adamcarey6093]

it can be rather underwhelming damage wise. I think the multi-meltas and hull mini demolisher cannon are vital to really have a punch.

[@Gibbonize]

Allocate attack goes before save roll. So you need to decide will you use this ability before you roll a save

[@eenis1281]

Hellhound is light tank Leman Russ is medium Dorn is heavy Baneblade super heavy

[@tojajestemmiszczem7926]

Last game I played my Rogal Dorn 1v1ed and killed a Swarmlord (termagaunts attached to swarmlords were killed before by combined fire of two guerdsmen squads). Meltas are POWERFUL.

[@Erasmus451]

Leman russ tanks is medium, hell hound and chimera is light and the Rogal dorn is heavy

[@brandonalsop1281]

Meltas are just too short range imo so in like heavy stubbers, then it’s dealers choice on multi melta vs hbs with multi meltas probably the better choice in the current meta.

[@Avera9eWh1teShark6]

Not to be "that guy" but my IRL treadhead sensibilities are forcing me to "ackchually" with these classifications. The Leman Russ is not a heavy tank, and by extension, the Rogal dorn is not an MBT, a "very heavy" or Heavy+ tank. The classification for fighting vehicles is: Scout > light > medium > heavy > super heavy. In game, this would be: -Scout Sentinel (scout) -Armored Sentinel/Hellhound (light/Armored Recon) -Leman Russ (medium/MBT) -Rogal Dorn (heavy) -Baneblade (super heavy) IRL respective equivalent would be: -Weisel/Humvee (or equivalent) -M10/AMX-10/IFV -Abrams/Challenger/T-72 -Tiger/M6/T10/Churchill -T-28/Panzer VIII

[@repelol]

For me, it depends. It's really durable, but the width is a problem.

[@johnhildenbrand2642]

Still not made up my mind on this, I think a single Dorn is a thing, but boy they are eye watering in points right now, and I can't help but feel that 2 Russ might be a bit better than 1 Dorn, depending on gear, hard to say though

[@timjerrom7173]

Nice... 👍

[@SLG493]

Played a tonne of 10th so far but havent used my Guard once...😢 Guard for me have had the biggest change from 9th to 10th. I own russes chimera infantry and characters there is no place for that list in 10th. You need artillery sentinel spam and scions. Without those things my collection is sadly pointless right now.

[@dasheavy101]

@MordianGlory ...bro, did I just see a pic of the Praetorian Battle tank from Factorum Labs in this video??? In all seriousness, the Dorn sorta ticked me off. I loved it, but now I have to choose between Malcadors or the Dorn...plus it doesn't help I have a massive Imperial Fist army so it wouldn't make sense NOT to get one...

[@adamcarey6093]

I currently have 2 Dorns. I feel like i need a 3rd.

[@frietdrichwittmanvonrichto8909]

9:24 sorry but why the rogal can have "take aim" is not s regiment unit plis help 😭

[@swiftdetecting]

How many can you have at once ?

[@yokogaijinjr.5061]

3

[@RealAmnz]

Are 2 dorns in a list overkill?

[@MordianGlory]

Not at all! I think double dorn is legit :)

[@tomyorke3412]

Can we see the mega bolter stormlord

[@Swordsmansmith87]

With the macharius being the same points and how hard the oppressor cannon got nerfed I don't think the rogal dorn is the best choice anymore. Now if you want survivability and volume of shots to kill infantry sure; but it's antitank value has significantly decreased.

[@frietdrichwittmanvonrichto8909]

Hummm, this tank look like a old german cat ❤️

[@user-cq1cw8xz7f]

I want to get myself a dorn, after I pay the leviathan box😢

[@DrDuffy-hz3ut]

Did I hear you say, that we could put sponsons on this?

[@MordianGlory]

Yes! Heavy Bolter or Multi Melta

[@DrDuffy-hz3ut]

@@MordianGlory Thank you Sir! Love ya work 👌

[@willconstantinople6434]

Rogal Down?

[@MordianGlory]

Fixed! 😅

[@chrisdowning3153]

Macharous video next? Pleaseeeee

[@akodotain]

Its got an excellent stat line this edition, good force concentration. Can't really see a floor to criticise ;)

[@MordianGlory]

[@Damnedlegion40k]

Add a comment...

[@damnationdan5253]

Tiger Tank 40k

[@joshuasutherland6692]

M6 Heavy

[@frietdrichwittmanvonrichto8909]

Real

[@AuramiteEX]

Team Dorn because it looks 10x better Warfashion 40k

[@mastergmoore]

My dorn killed Bellacor in melee you can’t beat it easily

[@scottcairns2933]

Hey if I could make one suggestion, I find most of your tactics videos the first 2-3minutes are dead air before getting to relevance. It would be amazing if you shifted that part to the end.

[@lordcastellan4735]

The dorn is kind of crappy.

[@MordianGlory]

Damn your eyes sir!

[@miafillene4396]

No, the tank isn't crappy. Nipple guns and the turret heavy stubber in the rear...that is crappy.

[@hectorluis8102]

o7

[@miafillene4396]

Nipple guns are ridiculous. But the Dorn is a serious beast. Main cannon, autocannon, gatling cannon, two multimeltas...and i do NOT use the rear turret heavy stubber. Basically, anything looking silly.

[@Mr.Mother-Russia]

first!

[@mtuktuk9627]

your mum is super heavy

[@berkzers]

They are the panzer elite, never retreat!

[@stillunsure7630]

Yeah but where's the Lore? Hmm