Is the Trinity a Contradiction?: Ultimately with R.C. Sproul

[@speak-thetruth]

R. C. Sproul was the best of the best!!! Hopefully, we will see more Christians like him.

[@tahirkamal5986]

What’s the difference between a person and a being? A person is a category of being just as all mothers are women not all women are mothers likewise all persons are beings but not all beings are persons. The trinity is a contradiction not a mystery

[@jb_1971]

The problem isn't that you can't define "God" as 3 persons sharing one being. It might not be true, but it's perfectly coherent. The problem arises when you insist that each of these persons is also fully God. No, it's not fully God, it's a part of God! So in the doctrine of the trinity the Father isn't really God, He is something within God.

[@rubiks6]

Imagine the set of all counting numbers - 1, 2, 3, ... Now divide the set in half by selecting only the even numbers - 2, 4, 6, ... Which set is bigger, the set of all counting numbers or the set of all even numbers? A: Both sets are infinite. Therefore both sets are equal in size. Even the set of all rational numbers (fractions) can be shown to have a one-to-one relationship with the counting numbers and is, therefore, the same size. --------------------------------------- God the Father is not less than God. God the Son is not less than God. God the Holy Spirit is not less than God. If you can't quite wrap your head around it, don't worry. You are a finite man. You do not have the infinite mind of God. I hope that helps. (Remember not to carry the metaphor too far.)

[@jb_1971]

@@rubiks6 Alright, so in your metaphor there are three distinct sets A, B, C such that each of them has the property "is God" and their union also has this property. It doesn't change the fact that there are at least three distinct sets with the property "is God".

[@whywearehere7517]

The problem is the Bible didn’t mention this notion. Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Messiah, the servant, the right hand of God, the saviour, God SENT HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. That's the Bible's main message when it comes to conveying who Jesus Christ is, not God the Son nor Part of God. Never.

[@jb_1971]

@@whywearehere7517 Good to see people coming to the knowledge of the truth! Was it a recent realization for you? Did someone point it out to you or did you just start to study it on your own?

[@whywearehere7517]

@@jb_1971 j think you misunderstand, i dont believe Jesus is God, but the Son of God,

[@lulujordaan1103]

Good logical podcast. That prof should have read the Bible first, before making foolish allegations.

[@lulujordaan1103]

The Professor of Philosophy, the one Dr Sproul is talking about in this Podcast.

[@jb_1971]

And where exactly would he find the doctrine of the trinity stated?

[@kiwihans100]

YES! How can Jesus have been the 'second person of the 'trinity' if he as a 'human soul' ( Isa 53:12. Matt 20:28) was here on earth for 331/2 years & then died and was buried & then raised on the third day? And STILL be an essential PART of the tinity without INTERRUPTION? How could part of him still have been with the Father while he was on earth? Did the Father just pretend to pray to himself while Jesus was in Gethsemene? How Could Jesus have been 'very God of very God' even while on earth if he was 'tested'? If he got 'tired' if he 'ate food' e.t.c. James 1:13 states "God cannot be tested' when Jesus WAS tested? It all proves that he is GOD'S SON!

[@approvedofGod]

Where did R. C. Sproul get his "one in essence, three in person?" To defend simply by arguing is not acceptable.

[@Pj-fm7oe]

It is Greek philosophy, that's where the "essence" and "nature" of God comments originate from. After the apostles were gone and more Greeks became believers who were enamored with the philosophy of the day, they brought that influence with them and it led to the corruption of the truth. In the third century under the pressure of the pagan Roman emperor Constantine the trinity was voted into existence. First it was Jesus divinity, then around 50 years later they added the holy spirit on top. Like a buy two get one free deal.

[@approvedofGod]

@@Pj-fm7oe I agree.

[@user-to5fp2np2o]

If you are also one of those people who are confused about this subject, I advice you to read both old and new testament.then you will realize you don't need to rely on anyone for answers but God and His Son who is truth, the way and life. Apostle Paul warned about this ,so stick to your Bible for information.

[@DP-bx5fg]

Amazing how everyone buying into it and he has not provided one scripture to support his logic.

[@Mckaule]

He's a false prophet. He's denying Jesus is come in the flesh and propagating lie of Cerintus.

[@westonstoler977]

His point was to show it wasn’t illogical Not to prove that it was true There is a difference between sound and valid arguments He was showing the argument was sound, not that it was valid

[@tahirkamal5986]

The trinity still makes no sense

[@lesliesavage9229]

2:00 2:50 and 3:06 You sight your own contradiction, when you talk about substance. First we need to define substance, which is what something tangible that something is made up of, look it up. Your God is one in substance and three is person, but a person is made up of a substance, which makes your God three in substance. Not to mention you misuse the term substance, which is of something tangible, and not a concept of who God is. You have a contradiction, and it is also interesting you don't give any reference to the professor. Your problem is even bigger than this, since Jesus and the Father are both identified as God as an individual: John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. And Jesus as God as an individual: John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus is going to His God, and not a group called God. At the same time Thomas is addressing Jesus as, and no one else, as God. So far we have two Gods. The Bible never says there is only one God in number, but always clarifies how that one God is: Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Notice the Father is the only God of all, which "all" includes being the God of Jesus Christ, and this goes along with John 20:17. God is never mentioned as a group inside of any god in Hebrew or Greek literature, except when the trinity is described in creeds outside and foreign to the Bible. Your definition of there being one god makes the Father and Jesus not a God, but a part of God, which isn't Biblical.

[@souzajustin19d]

God is immaterial. Substance was used to help you understand. Good attempt tho.

[@lesliesavage9229]

@@souzajustin19d You're going to need to explain yourself a little better than that. At this point you're say God isn't there, when HE is, also notice the use of HE, time stamp 4:05. If God is three persons, a group, then God isn't a HE either. The contradiction I mentioned is still valid, unless you can prove otherwise.

[@souzajustin19d]

@@lesliesavage9229 Person and being are not the same, so there is no contradiction. If he said God is three persons and one person then it would be a contradiction. But God is three persons and one being, not a contradiction. Logic is immaterial, and still exists objectively. Something does not need matter or energy in order to exist.

[@lesliesavage9229]

@@souzajustin19d Immaterial means of no essential consequence, unimportant, not pertinent, irrelevant, but we need sound logic to honestly figure things out. A person is alive and being is defined as a living thing, a dictionary definition which means God is living, so there is your contradiction. If you can show that God is not a person, your trinitarian god, then you could have a case.

[@souzajustin19d]

@@lesliesavage9229 lets clarify. As you probably know words can have several meanings. That is why typically in dictionaries you have you several definitions. For example you will see point two. adjective 1. unimportant under the circumstances; irrelevant. "so long as the band kept the beat, what they played was immaterial" 2. PHILOSOPHY spiritual, rather than physical. "we have immaterial souls" So we are talking about something non material. Much like logic it exist but has no material form. You cant measure logic or accidently run into it, or hold it in your hand its not physical. Person a human being regarded as an individual. "the porter was the last person to see her" used in legal or formal contexts to refer to an unspecified individual. "the entrance fee is $10.00 per person" an individual characterized by a preference or liking for a specified thing. "she's not a cat person" a character in a play or story. "his previous roles in the person of a fallible cop" an individual's body. "I have publicity photographs on my person at all times" 2. GRAMMAR a category used in the classification of pronouns, possessive determiners, and verb forms, according to whether they indicate the speaker ( first person ), the addressee ( second person ), or a third party ( third person ). 3. CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY each of the three modes of being of God, namely the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, who together constitute the Trinity. hopefully this will help you better. Person is not just a living human.

[@Mckaule]

R.C Sproul thinks that you can learn logic in university. He doesn't understand that you can't learn logic, you are either logical or not. I worship GOD Jesus worshiped and His GOD was not a Trinity, that's for sure. Logic tells it plainly. But the logic of Sproul couldn't get it. He'd better go for another semester of logic, I suppose.. but I think it's a matter of a seared conscience and Trinity idol which makes him dumb def and lifeless..

[@jatho7760]

Trinity is biblical. Jesus was worshipped. Yet, He never rebuked those who did.

[@Christianministrycentral]

Christian truth is based on revelation, not reason!

[@rubiks6]

Nevertheless, Christian truth is reasonable. !

[@Christianministrycentral]

Revelation is reasonable’

[@jessethomas3979]

I know what your trying to say, but you can't understand revelation without reason.

[@rubiks6]

@@jessethomas3979 - Your response is unclear. For example: Revelation tells me the Earth and all that is in it were created in six days. I can certainly understand that revelation. However, I may be a new Christian who has been emersed and indoctrinated into evolutionary theory and my reasoning may tell me that Genesis can't be true but if I am to believe God, I must set my own reasoning aside and accept the revelation of God in Genesis and my own reasoning may have to catch up to the revelation later. Foremost, I must believe God. Your words "without reason" are ambiguous.

[@jb_1971]

Therefore, show me this doctrine stated in the Bible.

[@RufusBlad]

The problem with the "God is one in essence but three in person" formula is that it doesn't hold. Because if God is to be three in person, and the Father is God, the Son is God and Holy Spirit is God, then the Father would have to be three in person as well (and so goes with the Son and the Holy Spirit). This is the contradiction. R.C. Sproul says that if God is one in A and three in B, that it's not a contradiction. Well, by that logic, then the Father should also be one in A and three in B, because He is 100% God. Yet trinitarianism declares that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not three in B, but rather one in B. God is three in person, but Jesus (also God) is one in person. That's what violates the law of noncontradiction. When you break it down like this it turns out to be a lie. The trinitarian God is 3 persons, but Father the God is one person. The trinitarian God is one in essence, but Jesus the God is two in essences: his divine essence and his human essence. In the end, trinitarianism is actually the belief in four gods: God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit and God the Trinity.

[@SKgyebaek]

😂😂😂

[@kiwihans100]

A valid aruguement for the 'trinity' being false is the relationship of the 'saits' with Christ and God the Father! If Jesus is God & not his son then how is it that the saints are said to become "Christ's brothers|" ( Heb 2:11) If Jesus is God himself, then the 'saints' would become brothers of Almighty God! Paul contues in verse 11-13 to call the 'saints' the "children of God". Thus Both Jesus & the saints are all SONS OF GOD'. This then is a problem for the 'trinity' Just one of so many! Sorry Constantine, Athanasius e.t.c you were worng!

[@euston2216]

*IF* 1. the First Person is the one true God, & 2. the Second Person is the one true God, & 3. the Third Person is the one true God... *AND IF* 4. the First Person is NOT the Second Person, & 5. the Second Person is NOT the Third Person, & 6. the Third Person is NOT the First Person... *THEN* 7. the one true God is NOT the one true God (contradiction), & 8. the one true God is NOT the one true God (contradiction), & 9. the one true God is NOT the one true God (contradiction).

[@jb_1971]

Yeah, it's really that simple. Or even simpler. According to Jesus, the Father is the only true God. The father is 1 person. The trinity is 3 persons. Therefore, the Father and the trinity are not the same. The father and the trinity are two Gods. There is only one true God, so one of these two is a false god. The father is the only true God. Therefore, the trinity is a false god.

[@souzajustin19d]

Being or essence is not the same as person. You created your own contradiction by conflating the two.

[@ramilsarmiento5534]

MANY people on Earth Believed Jesus is God. FEW people on Earth Believed Jesus is NOT God. Then Jesus said: Mat 7:22-23 "MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Jer 25:33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground. Question: Who are those people that will be SLAIN by God, the MANY or the FEW ? Where do you belong ? Isa 24:6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and FEW men left. Question: Who are those FEW ?

[@cybrough]

The trinity is human thinking not God’s thinking Matthew 16:16,17

[@tomw6271]

Since God is sovereign, nothing really matters because He has already determined the end from the beginning. Anyone who thinks we have choices doesn't believe God is sovereign. Cue the people who need to believe they are in control of anything ..

[@robertsmith3254]

I don't agree. It is because God is sovereign, that everything matters. It is because He is sovereign that we eat,drink, laugh, live, read, work,etc. Else its all for nothing without God. But because of Him, everything matters.

[@Duetmaster2]

God is sovereign. God also gave us free will so what we do and the choices we make do matter. Recognizing this does not necessitate a belief in being "in control of everything."

[@robertsmith3254]

@@Duetmaster2 Literally Proverbs 20:24 "A person’s steps are directed by the Lord. How then can anyone understand their own way?". Unless you disassociate the meaning of directed or ignore the scriptures, then you can say that God is not in control of everything.

[@rubiks6]

What does your comment have to do with the doctrine of the trinity? The term that applies to your comment is "non sequitur."

[@jb_1971]

So God does evil?

[@mitchellc4]

Hello Jesus is the Messiah The Son of God The Son of David The Son of man The man God has chosen to be his anointed king The man God will judge the world through Jesus has a God There is no triune god in scripture Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

[@whywearehere7517]

Amen

[@jb_1971]

Amen. The truth is simple. Disentangling the web of lies created by trinitarians is difficult.

[@kiwihans100]

Of course its a 'contadiction'? The NT writers held up for our consideration the profound LOVE God the Father had for us in giving up His own dear son to come to this earth and die for our sins! The 'trinity' teaches that God Himself just used his great power to turn part of Himself into a man and go through the motions of an obedient son who ends up dying on the cross! According to the 'trinity' it was all a 'charade' an act! There was no real, seperate, person called Jesus who prayed & talked to his Father continually, who was really tested as to his loyalty, obedience & faith. None of all we read about Jesus ACTUALLY was true! It was God all the time PRETENDING! What an insult the 'trinity' is to the true faith of Christianity! John said "If this is how God loved us, aught we not love one another?"

[@Truth_Yeah]

The Bible does not teach in one verse that God is one in essence and three in persons. He left out the Bible.

[@frankservant5754]

Well first of all God is not a human being so His very nature can and does contradict our own reasoning

[@g45crrt]

The trinity is not in the Bible. Get ready for some plagues. Revelation 22:18-19 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, Get - it.

[@robmc120]

Logic is alien to those without the Holy Spirit, may God reveal Himself to those He redeems. God bless LM team & reader.

[@cddpmpls35]

Logic is alien to those without the holy spirit.. ..yet you believe God is three people.and claim you have a monotheistic faith.. ..thats logical.. ..brainwashed..

[@robmc120]

@@cddpmpls35 you're confusing the natural world with a supernatural God who created the logical world you experience around you, your illogical thinking is flawed. God bless!

[@cddpmpls35]

@@robmc120 ..no I'm not.. ..jesus taught me all I know.. ..God came as a servant and will return as the king.. ..God came as the lamb and will return as the lion.. ..God came as the son and will return as the Father..

[@robmc120]

@@cddpmpls35 You & I have a completely different Jesus, where you won't even capitalize His name in honor of His ultimate sacrifice for your sins nor read the Bible discerning enough to see the clear distinction between the three persons of the triune God. I recommend Anthony Rogers where he refutes modalists in debate & explains in Old & New Testament the multiple clear distinctions. May the triune God of the Bible, God's Holy Word, show Himself to you.

[@cddpmpls35]

@@robmc120 ..recommend all the men you want.. ..I recommend Jesus.. ..and yes, you worship the antichrist..

[@Atrinz7]

God is one no matter how ridiculously you try to justify trinity. For truth seekers: If trinity was the truth then all prophets before Jesus Christ should have believed in it, that includes Moses, Ibraham, Noah ,... but they all believed in one God and none of them claimed that God is in 3 persons or forms.

[@robmarshall956]

The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity-the Father.

[@Atrinz7]

@@robmarshall956 I certainly agree that Jesus is not god, and none of God’s prophets believed in Jesus as their God. You probably didn’t get my point.

[@robmarshall956]

@@Atrinz7 no you didn’t get mine ) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5). The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two it clearly does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity. In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus’ baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity. Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16). John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God. Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as God, indicating that Jesus is indeed God. In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. Beyond these, there are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus being God. Soooo Is Jesus God? Yes. Jesus declared Himself to be God. His followers believed Him to be God. The provision of salvation only works if Jesus is God. Jesus is God incarnate, the eternal Alpha and Omega (Revelation 1:8; 22:13), and God our Savior (2 Peter 1:1).

[@Atrinz7]

@@robmarshall956 your first reply certainly missed the point I was making and was not a relative response to that point. To respond no you didn’t get mine doesn’t seem like a truthful response. Again the point is no other prophet claimed that God has three forms or persons and they all believed in one God which was sufficient for them to be true believers. Elohim can be plural is such a weak argument and totally false, you can ask a Jew scholar to explain that to you. Such important concept (trinity) if it was the truth and necessary for our salvation should be believed by all God’s prophets and all of their true followers and furthermore should have been explained by God himself to his followers long before Jesus which we know is not the case. What God said to Moses (similar to other prophets) is that I am your God and there is no god but I. In other words I am the only God. Based on that, Trinity is not the truth And believing in that is not required for our salvation If you have a response to that Provide a clear and unequivocal proof that other prophets before Jesus believed in Jesus as their God or as one of the three forms of their God and instructed their followers to have such belief as the necessary requirement of salvation which I know you won’t be able to do. I believe my point is very clear to those who are just and fair.

[@robmarshall956]

@@Atrinz7 The doctrine of the Trinity finds support in the Old Testament in the Hebrew concept of plurality in unity: Deuteronomy 6:4 is a verse that seems, at first, to wholly negate the doctrine of the Trinity: “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.” (Interestingly, the singular Yahweh is coupled with the plural Elohim in this verse.) The word translated “one” is ehad, which means “one” or “unity”; however, the word is also used in other contexts to suggest a plurality within unity. For example, the word ehad also appears in Genesis 2:24, which considers two persons as one: “[A man] is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one [ehad]” (NLT). Obviously, the husband and wife are distinct persons, but they are called “one”-there is diversity within the unity. The doctrine of the Trinity finds support in the Old Testament in the names for God: The very fact that God reveals Himself using multiple names in the Old Testament could be a clue pointing to His triune nature. Two of the names show up right away: Elohim in Genesis 1:1, and Yahweh in Genesis 2:4. Some scholars believe the multiple names for God imply a diversity within the Godhead. One of the Hebrew names for “God” in our Bible, Elohim, is plural in form. The -im suffix is plural, and elohim, when not referring to the One True God, is translated as “gods” (plural) in Scripture. The plural form of a name for the One God could be seen as implying a perfect unity of Persons and is certainly consistent with the New Testament teaching of the Trinity. Adonai, translated in our Bibles as “Lord,” occurs about 300 times in the Old Testament. This title for God is also plural. One writer comments on the word Adonai, “It is significant that it is almost always in the plural and possessive, meaning ‘my Lords.’ It confirms the idea of a trinity as found also in the name of Elohim” (Stone, Nathan, The Names of God, Moody Publishers, 2010, p. 35). The doctrine of the Trinity finds support in the Old Testament in the appearances of the Angel of the Lord: In several places, the Old Testament records encounters with someone called “the Angel of the Lord.” This supernatural presence speaks as if He is God, identifies Himself with God, and exercises the responsibilities of God. For example, in Genesis 16:10, the Angel of the Lord says to Hagar, “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count.” Of course, God is the One who blesses Ishmael, but it’s the Angel of the Lord who personally makes the promise to his mother. The same Angel of the Lord appears to Abraham and assumes the role of God, saying, “Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son” (Genesis 22:12, emphasis added ). See also Exodus 3:2; Judges 2:1-4; 5:23; 6:11-24; 13:3-22; 2 Samuel 24:16; Zechariah 1:12; 3:1; 12:8. In several passages, those who see the Angel of the Lord fear for their lives because they had “seen the Lord.” It’s clear that the Angel of the Lord was no mere angel. Viewed through the lens of the New Testament teaching of the Trinity, it’s easy to conclude that the Angel of the Lord could be a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ. The doctrine of the Trinity finds support in the Old Testament in its descriptions of the Spirit of God: The post-exilic Levites speak of the Spirit of God as being sent by God and speaking for God: “You also gave Your good Spirit to instruct them” (Nehemiah 9:20, NKJV); and “For many years you were patient with them. By your Spirit you warned them through your prophets” (Nehemiah 9:30). Both verses seem to make a distinction between God and another personality called the Spirit of God. See also Isaiah 48:16 and Isaiah 63:10. The doctrine of the Trinity finds support in the Old Testament in God’s self-references: Most of the time, God speaks of Himself using singular pronouns (e.g., Exodus 33:19; Hosea 11:9); at other times, He uses plural pronouns: “Then God said, ‘Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness’” (Genesis 1:26, emphasis added). “And the LORD God said, ‘The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil’” (Genesis 3:22, emphasis added). As sinful humanity was erecting the tower of Babel, God said, “Come, let Us go down and confuse their language” (Genesis 11:7, BSB, emphasis added). In Isaiah 6:8, God refers to Himself in both singular and plural terms: “Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, ‘Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?’” (emphasis added). We could assume that, in each of the above passages, God is simply using the majestic plural to emphasize His power and greatness. Or we could also assume that there’s something more going on-viz., that these statements hint at discrete personalities existing as a unified whole. The doctrine of the Trinity finds support in the Old Testament in Messianic passages: In Psalm 110:1, David writes, “The LORD said to my Lord, ‘Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool’” (NKJV). Here is an example of Yahweh speaking to Adonai and giving Him the place of highest honor in heaven. Jesus pointed to this psalm as proof that the Christ is more than David’s descendant-He is the pre-existent Lord and much greater than David (Matthew 22:41-45). Another Messianic prophecy is found in Psalm 45:6-7: “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.” The psalmist, addressing Elohim, suddenly speaks of “your God” who honors and anoints the Addressee. The doctrine of the Trinity finds support in the Old Testament in the repetition of God’s qualities or His name: In Isaiah 6:3, the angels surrounding God praise Him as being “holy, holy, holy.” The threefold repetition expresses the intensity and completeness of God’s holiness. Some scholars also infer from the angels’ words an expression of the triune nature of God, as the three Persons of the Godhead are each equal in holiness and majesty. Similarly, we have a threefold repetition of God’s name in Numbers 6:24-26: “The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face shine on you and be gracious to you; the Lord turn his face toward you and give you peace.” The blessing’s appeal to “the Lord . . . the Lord . . . the Lord” is seen by some scholars as providing a glimpse of the Trinity. In many ways, the Old Testament gives a preview of the New Testament’s fuller revelation, including the doctrine of God as a triune Being, Gods truth isn’t limited to the smallness of your mind my friend.

[@diosdadoapias]

We do n ot need any PhD to understand the impossibility of one God in three persona. The trinity is a product of philosophy by the ancient fathers who in the council of nicea developed and propagate the trinity. The Bible which should be the basis alone of what is the nature of God does not states any substance or state to the effect that God the father Almighty and His Son are of the same essence or substance. The Father, as all Christians understood is unbegotten or He has no beginning; while the Son was begotten by the Father so it has a beginning. The Trinity Doctrine as propagated by the Roman Catholicism further claims that God and Son are co-equal and co-eternal. The Son said that his Father is greater than him; that he came down from heaven not to do his own will but the will of him who sent him. this state no co-equality. They are not co eternal because the Father has no beginning but the Son has a beginning. being eternal means that one has both no beginning and no ending. The son could have no ending but surely he has a beginning when he was begotten by God the Father.

[@elijahnatureboy]

That explained the "trinity," @R.C. Sproul, but you didn't use the example most people can identify with, ourselves. In essence we each are a whole being but in composition we're "body, energy or lifeforce and mind." As energy we have no shape, add body for shape or form and add mind to become cognic.

[@jb_1971]

So you're saying that the Father is only a part of God?

[@elijahnatureboy]

Aren't each of us part of existence,@@jb_1971, yet existence is a whole of itself? Can't doctors take a kidney, heart, liver and other organs out of one person and put them in another? That means everything is a functioning entity that has to have a source for them to function in. Because we are in God we are God and God is in us as our lifeforces and the lifeforces moves from body to body within our bodies to experience the whole of our being, including minds. So yes is the answer.

[@jb_1971]

@@elijahnatureboy I wasn't asking whether the Father is a part of existence, but whether He is a part of God.

[@elijahnatureboy]

God is all that is,@@jb_1971, everything else is a part of God, be in or out of God's body it's still God.

[@jb_1971]

@@elijahnatureboy Trinitarians are not pantheists and I'm arguing against their doctrine.

[@cddpmpls35]

..the trinity is absolute nonsense..

[@newyorknight]

Amen

[@samiaziz5]

Amen.

[@g45crrt]

These three scriptures below put an end to the trinity madness! Please read John 3:16 for some insights on what's going on! It's truly shocking of how many people will try to prove that God is a liar! You'll never be able to prove that God is a liar, no matter how many videos you post! Proverbs 30:5-6 Every word of God proves true. He is a shield to all who come to him for protection. Do not add to his words, or he may rebuke you and expose you as a liar. The scripture above means that you will never be able to prove that John 3:16 is a lie. The wicked don't have a relationship with God because they have rejected Jesus' New Commandments and The Lord's Prayer (they only worship the son, sports and holidays). And therefore, will not receive everlasting life. Jesus tells us to specifically pray direct to God the Father. He does not tell us to pray direct to Himself and the Holy Spirit. And he tells us to worship only Jehovah God, not Himself and the Holy Spirit. Also, these three scriptures below put an end to the trinity nonsense! Matthew 6:9 PRAY “Pray, then, in this way: ‘Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name. Matthew 4:10 WORSHIP Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service." Eph 1:5 ONE GOD 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all [persons], who is over all and through all and in all. - ONLY ONE FAITH - IT'S NOT ORGANIZED RELIGION only a few find their way READ BELOW ↓ If you hate God's name and his people, it means that you are wicked!!!! "You are my witnesses," is the utterance of Jehovah, even my servant whom I have chosen. There are no other witnesses other than Jehovah's Witnesses (who are called by his name). Isaiah 42:8 I am Jehovah. That is my name. Isaiah 43:7 Everyone who is called by my name, And whom I created for my own glory, Whom I have formed and made. Isaiah 43:10 "You are my witnesses," is the utterance of Jehovah, even my servant whom I have chosen. - This scripture is very clear that the witnesses and Jesus Christ, both belong to Jehovah God. Isaiah 43:11 I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior. Isaiah 43:12 So you are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “and I am God. Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” - Even Jesus Christ was a witness Have a nice day! PS Ezekiel 3:19 If you warn them and they refuse to repent and keep on sinning, they will die in their sins. But you will have saved yourself because you obeyed me.

[@Diana-xm1dm]

There is no trinity. Jesus is the Father. If God gave His only begotten Son. And, Jesus gave Himself. Then logic dictates that Jesus is God. If a=b then b=c. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Ephesians 5:2 And walk in love, as ➡Christ also has loved us and ➡given ➡Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma. CHEERS

[@robmarshall956]

No. Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16). There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God-but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. God the Holy Spirit is equal to God the Father and God the Son. However, God the Holy Spirit has willingly submitted to God the Son (Jesus) who has willingly submitted to God the Father. Thus modeling the mutual submission that is to characterize the Body of Christ (1) (i.e., the Church) (Ephesians 5:21. 1 Corinthians 12:20-27).

[@MrPatdeeee]

"Is the Trinity a Contradiction?" Heavens NO! (Sorry kind Sir; for the VERY long "comment". But I believe it NEEDS to be espoused) God's "Trinity"; is an example of this... Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. AND this...1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of Godliness: for God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. And this...John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was within God, and the Word was God. And this...John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Now...that means: Jesus IS, WAS and ALWAYS will be God Almighty. Praise Him. But hold on... The muslims say, "That is impossible! Thus, he is JUST a prophet like Muhammad". Also...those who call themselves "Jews" say this, "Jesus was NOT the Messiah (in English "Christ", meaning Savio"); rather he was just another "religious" fake. For NO body; can die and be resurrected and ascend into heaven. Because that is impossible!" (Or words like that). Plus...atheists say, "the whole god [and this and that...]; is a myth; because it is NOT possible!". (Or words like that) Got news for them. They are satan-led, Godless "heretics"; that WILL face Jesus; and He will cast them into hell on "Judgment Day". believe it or not. OH indeed He will; UNLESS...they surrender to Jesus (who IS the only TRUE God) before they die. Fact absolute! I said ALL the above; to say this...The "Trinity of God"; not only CAN be; it IS, HAS always been snd it always WILL be! IE: 1. The Son is God; the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God; and vice-versa's. If ANY Christian doubts that; they NEED to get on their knees and beg forgiveness; for their Blasphemous Sin. Now... 2. The Son is NOT the Father and vice-versa. The Father is NOT the Holy Spirit and vice-versa and the Son is NOT the Holy Spirit and vice-versa. But all three of these; ARE God. Now the world says, "That is NOT Possible!" And the world believes that; to the "nth" degree adamantly! But Jesus says..."With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible!" Praise Jesus' Holy Name. And, Hallelujah to the highest mountains; "to the 4 corners of the earth!". For... THAT Brethren; IS "God's Trinity". And get this...WE have a "trinity" too; but no where as powerful. IE: We have a "heart, soul and mind". ALL three equal one; with NO exceptions. But none of those are the other. Thus, the world says...."That's impossible!" But... Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, "With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible". Believe it or not. End of Story and I rest me case... ...In any case Brethren, Please Pray OFTEN and Praise Jesus OFTEN; for He is the ONLY true "God Almighty"; there will ever have been. And may Jesus bless you and yours always. AMEN!

[@jamesfloyd1864]

Wow. That was clearly stated and appreciated. Well saud.

[@MrPatdeeee]

@@jamesfloyd1864 Thank you kind Sir. I am honored and humbled. For MOST of my comments garners hatred. May Jesus bless you and yours always brother in Christ.

[@jamesfloyd1864]

Well said.

[@hr2r805]

@@MrPatdeeee 🖒 🖒 🖒 • Gen. 1:26 .... • "US" "OUR" "US" ... • Gen 3:22 - "US" ... ••••••••••••••••••••••••••• • ( Jesus' Baptism ) • On Earth - Each 3 were • " at the same place " • " at the same time " •••••••••••••••••••••••••••• • Matt. 3:16-17 ... • Mark 1:9-11 ... • Luke 3:21-22 ... •••••••••••••••••••••••••••• • Jesus • Holy Spirit • Father (His Voice) • The verses above are Proof... ••••••••••••••••••••••••••• • Identifies with • Gen. 1:26 with 3:22 ... • "US" "OUR" "US" • ••••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••• (" One God ") ••• ••••••••••••••••••••••••••• • Same God of... • Abraham • Isaac • and Jacob •••••••••••••••••••••••••••

[@MrPatdeeee]

@@hr2r805 Thank you for posting that. brother in Christ.

[@bobbyraejohnson]

Yes it is. It's not true people if people never told the narrative of the Trinity you would of never thought jesus was God.

[@stuartjohnson5686]

Jesus said he was God and proved it..

[@kiwisaram9373]

So if no one told us about the trinity, we could not have gotten it from scripture? Then if it is not logical, then we could not have made it up, so it must be from God? Blessed are you...for this was not revealed to you by flesh(logic) and blood, but by my Father in heaven. You could accuse God of being illogical, but what is logic that we should worship it? Is logic but the practical working or our minds which are limited in time and space and in which we are ignorant of God in the first place? Should we imagine God should confirm to our understanding, in which case you really could be accused of making god in your own image?

[@stuartjohnson5686]

@@kiwisaram9373 The Triune God is in the first verse of Scripture.

[@darwintime3552]

Perfect contradiction 3in1

[@robertsmith3254]

Nope. The inability to grasp the union in the trinity doesn't invalidate it(see John 17:11)

[@jamesfloyd1864]

@@robertsmith3254 My favorite scripture.

[@rubiks6]

Obviously, you ignored the video or perhaps didn't listen to it at all. Go to college and take an introductory course in logic.

[@jb_1971]

@@rubiks6 You're the one who is mistaken. The trinity claims that every one of the three persons is fully God. That makes 3 Gods. It's not claiming that God consists of three persons that produces a contradiction. It's claiming that every of these persons amounts to God on its own yet there is still one God.

[@rubiks6]

@@jb_1971 - Would you also argue with Albert Einstein when he tells space and time are different manifestations of one thing or that matter and energy are just different manifestations of one thing? Would you argue with the chicken when it tells you its one egg is three parts - a yolk, a white, and a shell? C'mon, dude - this is not so hard.

[@Sazabi0096]

I believe That The Trinity is Three in One Essense. The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are God. They all share the same power as God. Is just that their ranks are different. God The Father Is the King of Israel. God The Son Is the King of Judah And God The Holy Spirit is The King of The Church. God The Father is above The Son and The Holy Spirit. The Son is above the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is below The Father and The Son. And when they are together as a Team. They are called Yahweh. The Father is the Mind, The Son is the Body and The Holy Spirit is the Spirit. The Trinity's formula is like football. They are a family and a team.

[@Sazabi0096]

@@HearGodsWord They are not equal by rank.

[@Sazabi0096]

@@HearGodsWord Yes indeed He is God. But why is Jesus called The Son? Ever heard of Hierarchy before in A Family of Monarchies?

[@Sazabi0096]

@@HearGodsWord By Essense Yes. They both share the same nature. But The Father is above The Son.

[@pauljohn1979]

Heresy. Neither is above the other. All are co-equal.

[@Sazabi0096]

@@HearGodsWord Did you read the Book of Revelation? Jesus says that once everything is put under His feet. He'll hand the crown back to The Father. What does that mean? And why is Jesus called The Prince of Peace?

[@ServiceConnected]

Amen