Is Therapy Under Capitalism Just Systemised Gaslighting?

Is therapy under capitalism just systemised gaslighting?
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References:
Aftab, A. and Rashed, Mohammed Abouellei, Mental disorder and social deviance
Barnaby B. Barratt, Beyond Psychotherapy: On Becoming a (Radical) Psychoanalyst
Bonnie Burstow, Radical Feminist Therapy: Working in the Context of Violence
Cara Page and Erica Woodland, Healing Justice Lineages
Daniel J. Gaztambide, Freud, Ferenczi, and Freire: Liberation Psychology and the Practice of Psychoanalytic Therapy
Daniel & Gabor Mate, The Myth of Normal
Daryl L. Chow, D. L., S. D. Miller, J. A. Seidel, R. T. Kane, J. A. Thornton, and W.P. Andrews, The Role of Deliberate Practice in the Development of Highly Effective Psychotherapists
Devon Price, Therapy Isn’t for Everyone
Emma Tseris, De-therapising Trauma
Eric M. Greene, The Mental Health Industrial Complex: A Study in Three Cases
Jenny Logan, Psychology’s own Ethical Standards Demand Prison Abolition
Joanna Moncrieff* The Political Economy of the Mental Health System: A Marxist Analysis
John Lees and Richard Cleminson, Retrieving the Past for a Usable Present: Anarchism, Psychoanalysis and Revolutionary Transformation in the Early 20th Century
Kraus, D. R., Bentley, J. H., Alexander, P. C., Boswell, J. F., Constantino, M. J., Baxter, E. E., & Castonguay, L. G, Predicting Therapist Effectiveness From Their Own Practice-Based Evidence
Magno Nunes Farias and Roseli Esquerdo Lopes, Social occupational therapy, anti-oppression and freedom: considerations about the revolution of/in everyday life
Manfred F.R. Kets de Vries The Shaman, the Therapist, and the Coach
Marianne Williamson, Dealing with Pain
Marlene Dobkin de Rios, What We Can Learn From Shamanic Healing: Brief Psychotherapy With Latino Immigrant Clients
Matthew Spector, Liberation Psychology: General Overview
Micah Ingle, Western Individualism and Psychotherapy: Exploring the Edges of Ecological Being
Mike Money BA (Hons), MA, PhD, Dip Ed, C. Psychol, AFBPsS Shamanism and complementary therapy
Jenny Logan, Undoing the Healthcare-to-Prison Pipeline with Abolitionist Practice
Nica Siegel Fanon’s Clinic: Revolutionary Therapeutics and the Politics of Exhaustion
Psychology’s Responsibility to Abolition
Robert Jagers, Sociopolitical Development
Society of the Advancement of Psychotherapy, A Better World Is Possible
Stanley Krippner Shamans as Healers, Counselors, and Psychotherapists
Stella Akua Mensah, Abolition Must Include Psychiatry
Taiwo Afuape, Power, Resistance and Liberation in Therapy with Survivors of Trauma: To Have Our Hearts Broken
The Conversation, Friday essay: searching for sanity in a world hell-bent on destruction
Valter L. Piedade, Psychotherapy of the oppressed: the education of Paulo Freire in dialogue with phenomenology
Wampold, B. E., & Brown, G. S., Estimating variability in out- comes attributable to therapists: A naturalistic study of outcomes in managed care
WHO AM I?
Hi 👋 I’m Kathrin (she/her), I’m 27, an Anthropologist and Political Scientist. With my videos, I hope to not only challenge 0ppressive broader external structures, but to also root out our that piece of the 0ppresser which is planted deep within each of us.
#therapy
⌚️Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:04 The Privatisation of Pain
06:11 Be Normal
09:34 Insanity
12:35 Prison
16:29 Mind/Body
20:41 Transformation
24:30 Psychology of the Oppressed
27:24 The Trauma Industry
31:40 Conclusion: Beyond the Sofa

[@Kathrin_yt]

What are your thoughts & experiences of therapy, either as a client or therapist?

[@Nernel]

I never found CBT particularly helpful to me, but the therapist I was seeing while I was at one of my lowest points introduced DBT to me, and it was a helpful tool for the me then. I wonder if I would feel the same about it now, over a decade later. DBT definitely focuses on many of the things you touch on in this video, such as mindfulness, that don't get at the root of the problem. But for 20-year-old me, it was a game changer.

[@Kathrin_yt]

@@Nernel interesting, I will look into DBT I hadn’t heard much about it!

[@jonasmiekkamies]

I can not afford therapy and I hate all the memes where men are smugly told that they rather do something X instead of going to therapy, when the option just is not there. I have consulted a mental health nurse, she that told me that hatred is an asset, reserve of strength and I believe her

[@Regambler]

Therapy was a game changer for me.

[@Kathrin_yt]

@@Regambler I'm happy to hear it worked well for you!

[@BL-sd2qw]

"Is Therapy Under Capitalism Just Systemised Gaslighting?" As someone who has studied social psychology: yes. For anyone interested in reading further, I recommend anything coming from the neurodiversity paradigm.

[@purolemon]

Seconding this, the liberation psychology approach is also really fascinating, which brings in a lot of decolonial theory from Freire and Fanon, first conceptualized by Ignacio Martin-Baro. Western psychology under Capitalism is so individualized and mired in "self responsibility bootstraps" ideology, as well as the profit motive, its disgusting, and we need to revolutionize the field with these new approaches.

[@naweedock]

I just feel like pouring out my thoughts rn so I'm just going to do it lol. I want to go to uni and go study social psychology to help others in this shitty world. Sociology is something I love and have been a hobbyist, basically my entire life. Sadly my grades aren't good enough YET but I feel like I have a good grasp on the subject, when it comes to general definitions and ways of thinking. I mean I recently came out of my own shell of alienation by just trying to understand the capitalist system by myself. I didn't want any other ideologies to "corrupt" my realizations of deep materialist truths of society. I wouldn't even take on my marxist father's understanding at face value, and critiqued everything up and down. I don't really want to be a labelist but I've become a heterodox marxist and a revolutionary optimist, and I view the entirety of the leftist movement holistically and as a collective unconscious movement. It's currently in the process of bringing about socialism. Not efficient but effectively in a compartmentalized way, breaking down capitalism from all sides. Oh well, but sadly this process of mine of understanding the world took a decade or so and came at the cost of not living life to the fullest. According to capitalism I guess I deserve my current situation, which makes me so happy to know that capitalism will be completely destroyed, with or without humanity. Well deserved, into the trash bin of reality it goes. So basically I'm currently slowly reintegrating myself into society and am on a path of self-actualization, while trying to be humble and actively rejecting "great man theory". Because in this individualistic society ppl keep falling into the pit of believing they're superior and by doing so, they actively work to continue this exploitative and illogical system. Which is why I want to rehabilitate such sick ppl, being created by an even sicker ideology All of these things that I try to keep in mind have made me a little crazy, but being sane in this insane world is not for me lol.

[@javierromo8711]

Can you name specific authors, please?

[@andrer1664]

I would also like if you name authors

[@purolemon]

@@javierromo8711 @andrer1664 Ignacio Martin-Baro should have the most foundational, "canonical" writings, such as his "Writings for a Liberation Psychology." There's also a really good series of talks he's done at universities on KZbin, if you can understand Spanish m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/baiXmmWkiZ6pjNE&pp=ygUlSGFjaWEgdW5hIHBzaWNvbG9naWEgZGUgbGEgbGliZXJhY2lvbg%3D%3D What I would recommend as well, as a good introduction to this approach and some of its core ideas / expansions in the modern day, is the collection of essays, "Liberation Psychology: Theory, Method, Practice, and Social Justice" by Lilian Comas-Diaz, which should be on LibGen or Anna's Archive for free ; in fact Chapter 5 was written by a professor of mine who I've gotten really close with because of our similar interests in academia and activism :) Good luck!

[@stugeh]

i've thought i needed therapy for a long time but the paraphrased quote "it's not healthy to be healthy in a sick world" is something that feels far more valid than just trying to be happy in a broken world which has been a major contributor to leading me to avoid going into therapy. edit: ive been thrown off by the yugopnik voice over[

[@dreddiknight]

I'm not sure life is about being happy, but being able to find some measure of contentment in the company of friends, family or lovers, despite the darkness of the world, is a worthwhile pursuit. It's a very individual choice about whether to partake in therapy or not, but my decision to do so helped my mood lift and feel more comfortable with who I am as a person. It led to me becoming a therapist myself and I love the work! You must judge how you feel and whether therapy might help you feel slightly different (hopefully better in some way) or are content to let things remain as they are.

[@pxpe7765]

Sounds like a an excuse not to take responsibility. The purpose of therapy is not necessarily to be "happy"

[@jonahpuccio6302]

"It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society." That quote keeps me going tbh :/

[@yoonahkang7384]

Don be so literal . Being happy is just a way of saying it

[@rafaelgabrielgarlinidal-bo9496]

nah. These phrases about the world being a horrible place are cool and all, but don't let it blind you. There is inner work that you must do. If you stay indifferent to your bad psyche patterns, they will continue to govern your life (in the worst way they can) and pass themselves to others. If you don't set your realities straight, other people will be happy to do so and that's dangerous. Never be afraid of being the best self you could be.

[@adamswierczynski]

Needing therapy to get over the trauma of bad therapists is too relatable.

[@dreddiknight]

As a therapist i try to never ignore the structural systems, intergenerational inheritances, poverty and economic vulnerability from housing to food banks etc as integral parts of the problems people face. One of the biggest problems with the psychodynamic models and CBT in general too is the idea of locating the source of all problems as originating within the individual rather than using a more accurate wider lens and exploring so much of what you speak about in this video. Really good video! Thank you! ✌🏿👊🏿

[@Kathrin_yt]

thank you for sharing your thoughts/experience!

[@DaveE99]

Yeah, the more I learn about humans and multi-polar traps (look up Daniel schmactenberger) and the logic and thinking of people in hierarchies and the incentives of the systems that props up obligate sociopathic corporations due to them not having empathy but requiered to maximize share holder profit and because of the liability protections they have the “move fast and break things” incentivized way of acting 🎭 become more like profiting off poison 😊society and then outsource the negative 2nd order and 3rd order effects on peoples bio/psycho/social outcomes in life. Like the American chemical society shows over 300 cancerous chemicals in our enviroment released by industry, these show up in breast milk too. To the fact that leaded gasoline took 11 pts of iq off the worlds population intelligence and lead poisoning has been used to keep minorities down by showing lack of interest in solving, that religion just seems to protect and partner with this same machine all because uncertainty is scary and people desperately cling to the hot water shower that regulates their nervous system at the end of a day of being used. It’s like wtf kinda dystopia was I brought up in?

[@SiriProject]

Even when acknowledging these issues, therapy remains completely ineffective to tackle the issue. A person in a bad place needs to not only change the mind, but also the setting, and changing the setting requires money and opportunities. Since therapists won't do anything about the latter, they overfocuse on the former. Sometimes to the person's detriment.

[@lolalucxyz]

Those models are fantastic at what they're designed to do: Getting people out of crisis and improving their quality of life. As a patient, it seems like the problem is just that therapists - at least the ones I've worked with/heard of - tend to just apply CBT to the patient as if they're hammering a nail. It's important to work with the patient to establish goals, and to clarify what the purpose of tools used is. Just having CBT thrown at you as a patient who has identified and is focusing on real problems can feel invalidating, manipulative, and sort of adjacent to gaslighting. It's especially bad with depression, where the "muh chemical imbalance" lingo tends to be used to just dismiss all suffering as a "bug in the code" and not real. I would have had much more success in therapy if my therpist had just told me something like "Listen, the problems you see are real, horrifying, and worth addressing. However, right now you're pretty much non functional and homeless. You're not in a position to change anything, so the best possible strategy is to build a foundation that allows you to function." Instead of "The problems you see aren't real, your brain is just broken." or "Just stop caring."

[@skylinefever]

I described the therapy as something for people near the peak of Maslow's Pyramid needing a boost up the final steps. It's a sick joke for those near the bottom. And the sides of the pyramid keep getting covered in grease.

[@xtieburn]

A huge issue with therapy is that nobody knows what we are doing. The field of psychology is young, about one of the most sophisticated structures we are aware of, grotesquely underfunded, much of the research is either very poor from the outset or doesnt survive replication. So anyone who proclaims themselves an expert therapist is kidding themselves. This has led to the treatment becoming something of a statistics game, what framework of treatment can cost the least and have the highest rate of success. (Which is why youll see CBT everywhere and for damn near every thing, at least in public healthcare.) Ostensibly that seems fine, and maybe it is, maybe its the best we can do without a lot more funding and a firm scientific foundation, but the reality of it is that huge percentages of people who dont fit in to the broadest categories will leave essentially untreated. I dont think this is acknowledged or admitted to by many therapists, and there is often little flexibility in the system to even attempt to tackle the problem.

[@Kathrin_yt]

Very well said!

[@Kathrin_yt]

I've also found it unethical sometimes that charities I've signed up for have offered 12 sessions of CBT for issues as complex as CSA. Perhaps it's better than nothing, but it also feels unethical to offer thought-work techniques to people who are probably dealing with deep rooted trauma that needs a lot of time and attention to uproot.

[@Bojoschannel]

This is one of my main issues with my practice, how can i even give therapy when the foundations of it are so shaky and outright wrong at times? I couldn't help but feel i could be doing something else, something better for my patients during my practice, but searching in theory, it all seems muddly and limited, specially when i have to translate methods tested in developed countries into the conditions of my own country

[@DaveE99]

@@Kathrin_yt prob is trauma treatment is still a specialization right now.

[@SiriProject]

"Much of the research is either very poor from the outset or doesnt survive replication" This is why for most of us philosophers, psychology just barely qualifies as science, i'm sorry. As a discipline, it quite simply runs on gross generalization of a phenomenon that we can't even replicate.

[@peternyc]

Much of what brings us to therapy is actually caused by capitalism's sadistic coercion of the working class. In a society where all people are welcomed participants, it's hard to imagine a deep need for therapy such as we've had in the last 100 years. The goal of therapy in our capitalist society is to convince you that your unhappiness is caused by your inadequacies. Gaslighting is the exact correct term for therapy today. Well done!

[@darkarai5241]

This, this right here. Everyone's mental ills are always put off on having depression or anxiety because of the easy scape goats of their parents or just having some brain disorder with out a cause. WHAT IF my depression and anxiety is from being a very creative and free spirited person forced to live In a culture of the cult of capitalism? Maybe I'm anxious because I have to constantly worry about food and money in a system that's meant to always inflate prices every 10 years making it near impossible for lower middle class and low class civilians to truly get ahead. Maybe it's because I can't even own land without risk of being thrown off it if I don't constantly pay my due to the government. Maybe instead of therapist handing out pills and blaming everything on your childhood Maybe they hand out money, food, housing and cover all medical expenses. I bet everyone will be surprised how much their mental health improves after that. There are tons of people who have real mental illness, however nobody talks about the people who have mental illness from living in a toxic money driven society and like you said you're gas light into not considering that. Therapist never ask "can you afford to fix your car?" "Can you afford groceries?" "Do you feel enslaved and stressed at your job and feel you can't leave out of the fear of poverty?" Nope, it's always "blame your parents!" And lastly, like you said this capitalist system isn't a choice you have to partake In it or not without consequence. Either you agree to take part and become a cog in the machine or you don't and you live homeless or in prison. No choice or free will and whether someone is aware of it or not, that lack of will puts major stress on some individuals.

[@toni2309]

And then you have therapists be like "don't compare yourself to others" when they are the very ones who compare you to others.

[@vivvy_0]

not just today, always. the church coerced the population before therapy was a thing.

[@91toinfinity]

​@darkarai5241 well there are people, like me, who grew up in abusive homes with fucked up parents AND live in a shitty capitalist system. Healing the former is much more doable than overturning the system 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

At the same time we are alianated from our neighbours by modern industrial society.

[@AinsleyORiley]

Therapy cost too much I tried to see someone she was charging 750 a session. I’ve seen a handful of therapist over my years. One I found last years was a low income therapist (for poor folks like me) who would cut the 60 minute session down by 30 minutes and charge my card full price. They all say the same thing, “oh just focus on something else.” “Breathe” it’s like they’re reciting a script. I feel so invalidated whenever I go to therapy like my problems aren’t a big deal. I’ve been trying to get tested for autism for almost 10 years now and I keep getting dismissed had one therapist tell me “it’s very costly.” Another therapist saying “what we would be the point in getting an autism diagnosis?” Another one said I don’t appear to be autistic, and dismissed me after talking to me only for a few minutes. The place I work talks about the mentally ill in a sarcastic tone, they’re constantly mocked behind their backs. And it’s left a very bitter taste in my mouth and left me looking at the whole “mental health care” system as nothing more than a circus. Sorry for going on a tangent, great video by the way, you’re very well spoken!

[@Kathrin_yt]

So sorry to hear about your experience, I've also had the same dismissal of my neurodivergence because I don't seem autistic/adhd - it's deeply heart-breaking to get invalidated by the very people that should be giving you the love and care you deserve. Thank you for sharing your experience!

[@wmd40]

the older I get, the more I realize the people who were labelled difficult or "crazy", often were 100% correct.

[@joshualin5476]

As someone with autism, that sucks. However I do want to offer a alternative here- there really isn't much practical point being diagnosed with autism past a certain age. Because autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder, there is no drug or medicine that can impact it, at least not proven or tested drugs. Most of what an autism diagnosis is useful for (beyond personal validation/insight) is to secure accomodations and therapy in a K-12 and occasionally collegiate setting. Past that an autism diagnosis is pretty much just a piece of paper. I suppose it can help with certain employers, but that's iffy, businesses still have stigma sometimes if you share that you have autism. Because autism is so we'll researched if you feel like you have it there really is very little you cannot find online, either through pop psych mags, KZbin videos, or actual research papers.

[@tylerhadden6651]

Self diagnosis is accepted among the autistic community because the community knows what getting an official diagnosis is like. Self diagnosing can be a validating alternative for you

[@jlhn]

Sameee, I remember when I was talking to a therapist I used to have, I told her "I think I might have autism" she interrupted me and said "we shouldn't believe everything we see in tiktok" And I was like: OK, first of all, you didn't even let me explain why I think so, second, I don't even use tiktok! But then she stopped being my therapist when she discovered I was queer, she literally told me "I can't help you anymore" and kicked me out so all in all, she was a terrible person lmao

[@DrPhoerrets]

I've been in therapy for 13 years, the entirety of my adult life. I was diagnosed with severe depression at 17 years old and started therapy and anti-depressants. It took 12 years for me to realise what the problem was: I am an autistic trans person being forced to fit into an allistic cis world. None of my multiple therapists ever explored or asked about this, none of them realised that after continuous incidents of self **** or s******s that something deeper was happening. I had to push for my own neurodivergent diagnosis and explore my gender on my own at 28. I'm still mad. I'm still grieving. I have a queer and neurodivergent trained therapist now but i wonder if it is really helping. Is it placating me rather than healing me? How do i reconcile the harmful decisions I've made to fit in and please others, including my therapists, with the person i am and always been? I'm figuring out what it means to be me and I'm still not sure.

[@DrPhoerrets]

Sorry, I'm just venting at this point and the video has hit a sad nerve ❤️ thank you for the video and talking about this! I've been thinking a lot about it

[@TravellingJamie]

Thanks so much for sharing. I'm a trainee therapist, but someone with a similar life experience to you by the sounds of it. Grieve and be rageful, and I hope you can set down some of the burden of you being the problem. Much love

[@Kathrin_yt]

thank you for sharing your experience! I feel so much love and compassion for the parts of you that made ''harmful decisions'' - it sounds like parts of you that were just trying to protect yourself understandably given the world we live in. I would actually recommend the book ''No Bad Parts'' as I've personally found it helpful struggling with similar feelings. Much love x

[@DaveE99]

With it being hard enough to find a truly neurodivergent aware therapist your trans queer thing just adds a level of complexity that I wouldn’t expect to find except for the fact that a lot of autistics actually become trans. The theory there is it has something to do with metallization is my understanding but if desired look that up. So it might be possible due to that connection. But otherwise to find masters in both just becomes hard forcing you like I’ve had to do seek out specialist on line and do their programs

[@skylinefever]

I am in a different situation. However, I just feel like what I want is something that let me feel like I had the life I missed out on. I said that if the Total Recall new memory device was invented, I would take my chances with it.

[@PluxBR]

Here in Brazil we have a program called Sameca (Saude Mental Camarada), which means Comrade Mental Health. Its a program led and organized by a brazilian socialist organization called Soberana. It takes into account not only personal/individual subjects into account but also the societal/systemic questions, passing through a socialist (Marxist-Leninist) lens. Just thought of leaving this here for whoever's interested!

[@Kathrin_yt]

that sounds amazing thanks for sharing!!

[@asuka_the_void_witch]

amazing

[@sofiaatomo5175]

eu não sabia que isso existia, QUE FODA

[@CynthiaBonacossa]

Sério? Eu tmb não conhecia!

[@moscanaveia]

I am getting treatment for the first time in my life thanks to Sameca

[@annjay2581]

Therapy just made me believe that there was something fundamentally wrong with my brain that I needed to fix. Like I was a car and the therapist was the mechanic. When I realized that most of my emotional reactions to the things going on around me are actually very normal and human and a sign that my brain was working correctly, I finally began to stop hating myself that much.

[@nicholascarter9158]

Therapists are not actually trained to be general advisors of mental wellness, but to address the rare but serious problem of "there's genuinely, factually, *not a single thing actually wrong in my environment* . But I'm miserable anyway." That's the only thing the training actually prepares you to do.

[@chazdomingo475]

I recently had a traumatic experience in therapy and had to find a discord channel to get me out of the crisis. This lady has spent months building up my self esteem. She was doing a good job. I felt like I was about to turn a corner. I became more confident in the sessions. I noticed her demeanor change. She became less supportive and more confrontational. This change occurs over about two sessions until I'm telling her about my lack of friends and she literally says "that's shitty" and then mocks my voice while repeating what I just told her... I'm still unsure what happened and why she did this but everything we had been working towards for months went right out the window and I was severely SI for about two weeks.

[@Kathrin_yt]

so sorry you had this experience, this must have been incredibly jarring to have your trust and relationship built up suddenly broken like that!

[@asuka_the_void_witch]

...............wtf

[@viktorthevictor6240]

This is a horror story...

[@deedferreira4211]

I'm so sorry that you had to go through that, no one deserves to be treated like this. :(

[@sazonada]

That is infuriating. I hope there is recourse for you.

[@moxiec6174]

When I was also abused I said similar things about being angry and frustrated with the prison industrial complex to my trauma therapist. He laughed at me and said I was funny. Thanks for speaking on this

[@Kathrin_yt]

@@moxiec6174 that’s so messed up! I’m sorry that happened to you!

[@zinzincoetzee1934]

Did you report him? Hopefully

[@moxiec6174]

@@zinzincoetzee1934 I should’ve but I was pretty young and it didn’t cross my mind

[@moxiec6174]

@@Kathrin_yt Thanks! Thanks for the great video also

[@waltonsmith7210]

"What's depressing you?" "All the homelessness, poverty and preventable socially engineered human misery all around me." "Oh, you're just thinking negative thoughts. Here,have some pills!"

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

"Why are everyone addicted to opiates?"

[@jrojala]

It seems that capitalism is a very large part of the problem

[@ulysses7157]

yep! most of my issues stem specifically to that.

[@goMikeMelo]

Blame statism, not capitalism. Statism is a very large part of the problem.

[@livthedream5885]

@@goMikeMeloyou can’t have capitalism without the state. The state establishes a currency, delineates private property, and holds a monopoly on the violence used to reinforce and protect that property, as well as the privileges of those who hold the most wealth.

[@goMikeMelo]

@@livthedream5885 All of that was dead wrong. Reject your authoritarian urges and respect human rights fully. The state is stupid and criminal. Capitalism is extremely moral and based.

[@livthedream5885]

@@goMikeMelo Everything I said is extremely correct, but perhaps you don’t know the difference between capitalism and markets. Without a vast commons you cannot have free markets. Capitalism emerged from Monarchism (as large “trading companies” establishing global trade, usually a foothold for colonialism) and feudalism (where feudal lords held vassal states and threw peasants out of their enclosures through militarized violence). Free markets require free access to capital resources, and freedom of movement and trade. Capitalism cannot exist without a state to provide the militarized protections it requires to prevent peasants and later workers from uprisings. What you seek is anarchy, and something like syndicates cooperating, trading, and negotiating. The Paris Commune would have been a major success if both capitalists and “communists” had not sabotaged and destroyed it. True communism is a stateless, classless, society. Precisely WHY do you think so many private banks, corporations, and investment firms are throwing millions into the establishment of cop cities all over the USA???

[@rosegolden5455]

as someone who is neurodivergent, ive found traditonal therapy and the cesspool of most self help advice on youtube to be useless. it wasnt until i started reading self help stuff from a neurodivergent lens where things started to change and make sense. (also there are some great neurodivergent therapists out there)

[@loveandrea3313]

Any recommendations of books/things to read for neurodivergents?

[@rosegolden5455]

@@loveandrea3313 sure, 2 recommendations i could give would be unmaksing autism by devon price and what i mean when i say im autistic by annie kotowicz (quick read, 100 pages). also there are some great youtube channels out there like the thought spot :)

[@ShinySilverBunny]

Sam Vaknin has mentioned how important it is to vet these therapists online and their credentials, where did they go to school? How many years? Have they written peer reviewed journals and articles? Etc... and he is a well decorated and achieved psychologist but also a narcissist. Still he's brilliant.

[@Kathrin_yt]

⌚Timestamps: 00:00: Introduction 01:04: The Privatisation of Pain 06:11: Be Normal 09:34: Insanity 12:35: Prison 16:29: Mind/Body 20:41: Transformation 24:30: Psychology of the Oppressed 27:24: The Trauma Industry 31:40 - Conclusion: Beyond the Sofa

[@codydolnick8338]

What source is being quoted at 8:57? I love it.

[@megt9171]

Mental health care basically doesn't work for me. The NHS where I live only does mindfulness or cbt, both of which have been contraindicated for autistic people, but they just ignore that. Cbt is just "you are thinking wrong stop thinking wrong" which doesn't help when you know your anxiety isn't reasonable but that doesn't stop it, or when it is reasonable. Help for my eating disorder has amounted to a dietician telling me "try to eat more" .

[@Kathrin_yt]

@@megt9171 thanks for sharing your experiences, it’s ridiculous how much the system has failed you, I’m sorry!

[@megt9171]

@@Kathrin_yt im not so sure that its failed me spesifically, more that its only set up to work for certain people. or atleast certain ideas of how people "should" function. I think its set up with the assumption that people are the ideal neo-liberal subject, rational, capable of solving "their own problems", independantly of systemic support. mindfullness inparticular strikes me as very neoliberal in its sensibilities, as it explicitly state that the problem is not your circumstances, it is you worrying about your circumstances, and if you simply learn to let these thoughts go, and not dwel on them then all will be well. It ignores that fact that sometimes we must think on our circumstances, inorder to improve them, and that some level of distress in distressing situations is not the brain functioning abnormally or in a way that particularly needs fixing. its the ultimate theraputic mode for maintaining the status quo. dont think on your problems, dont try and solve them, dont take time of sick because you are overwhelmed, just keep working and put those thoughts out of your mind.

[@Kathrin_yt]

@@megt9171 yessss well said! And I agree about mindfulness, it's helped me personally but still is status-quo reinforcing at least in the way it's generally practiced

[@skylinefever]

I often saw it as "yes, my idea is irrational. Now why does beibg even more aware of it do anything? Why can't I push the mute button on my brain?"

[@asuka_the_void_witch]

that about sums up public healthcare, yea

[@gingerfellah5665]

I’ve had pretty good, so so and so appalling I need therapy from them. The last one was very dangerous. I got away but I’m still unpacking it. Oh and the super religious one who was nice but useless

[@Kathrin_yt]

It does seem to be incredibly hit and miss!

[@gingerfellah5665]

@@Kathrin_yt Yes it is

[@lilpetz500]

That's so disappointing, we all deserve better. I missed many, many times I needed mental health support up until I secretly worked with a therapist at age 21, as my family insisted on positive thinking and pseudoscience, luckily a decent therapist. The alternatives given were failing me, they were literally starting to trigger an identity crisis and make me proud of all the labour I would give away to everyone constantly as a "positive thing" (and not a maladaptive, unsustainable coping mechanism) We need therapists who not only work with sound research, but actually engage and centre us and all our factors in our treatment, and go into it with the sincere goal of helping us heal. Not dangerous, dismissive, excessively religious/biased efforts. We deserve therapists who will actually have us, the functional pillars of society, no longer crumbling under mental trauma and unsustainable cycles.

[@LibertarianLeninistRants]

Therapy has the potential to be very transformative, but it needs to be protected from the worst of Capitalism or even completely freed from it. My personal experience with therapy was amazing. It was a depth psychological group therapy. We all learned something from each other, the therapist was there to give us the tools but the main learning part came in getting to know each other, understanding each other and trying out our techniques together. Also it was a therapy funded by the public healthcare system which removed so much pressure from us and the therapist. I can truly be lucky to have been in this kind of therapy

[@Kathrin_yt]

@@LibertarianLeninistRants that does sound like a great experience - totally agree it can have transformative potential!

[@moderngoblin]

Therapists are some of the most dangerous people in society I believe, similar to security guards. Ironically the most predatory people in our society are drawn to these professions.

[@Kathrin_yt]

yes it's a good point, that the field attracts a lot of potentially bad actors!

[@moderngoblin]

@@Kathrin_yt this was my favorite video so far this year maybe ever btw

[@BLACK80085]

@@Kathrin_yt Why the hell this isnt monitored? Oh wait the bad actors up there allow it and are with the perpetrators because theyre perpetrators themselves, the same in school with teachers and bullies.

[@X_TheHuntsman_X]

The best therapt advice I ever got was, "Stop being so hard on yourself," and surprisingly, that worked for me. I will say, disappearing too much into system blaming is a sure fire way to prevent your own happiness. It's all valid, but if you do it too much, you don't focus on anything that you are actually in control of. You won't accept that you have the power to unionize your workplace, organize your community, start/join a protest, bug the hell out of your representatives, build power so that you can scare the hell out of your representatives, etc. lol All of these things got me paid better, started improving my connection to reality and my general life conditions. Hitting 30 also helped. Everything is a nightmare in your 20s.

[@Kathrin_yt]

I TOTALLY agree about the disappearing too much into the system thing. I worry sometimes that talking about the system leaves people feeling totally powerless and not taking any responsibility at all for changing their lives/the world... it's definitely a ''we need both'' situation I think

[@colinkamoda9502]

Parallel Truths

[@liam3284]

Good point about the lack of power. What I found in the history of neoliberalism is a fear of collective action. It is not a freak accident that markets isolate and atomize people, nor that "debate" on social issues turns neighbour against neighbour.

[@aravisthetarkheena]

This is a very thoughtful video... I especially love the quote talking about how it isn't actually a good thing to be well-adjusted in a profoundly sick word. That honestly makes me feel better about a lot of the existential dread I feel a lot of the time 🤣 I honestly really feel for therapists, too. They are kind of in a no-win scenario for diagnosis. You are taught to use the science available to you, but it's hard to know when you're pathologizing who people are because the field is so young.

[@Kathrin_yt]

Totally agree therapists are put in an impossible situation. Thank you for your thoughtful comment!

[@lolalucxyz]

I get the sense that the main value of therapy lies in having someone to talk to without obligations/risk of social cost. Therapy didn't work for me, in big part because my therapists tendencies to indirectly manoeuvre around systemic issues. Focusing on myself and breaking out of obsessive thought spirals about problems out of my control WAS an important part of getting better, but I couldn't do that without acknowledging the problems I saw in the world as real. The therapists I've worked with have actively worked against that acknowledgement, hindering my progress. What ended up working was saying to myself "yes, the world is messed up, but paralysing myself with dread over that doesn't solve any problems, so I should redirect my attention."

[@Kathrin_yt]

I've also found a similar attitude really helpful, I can take responsibility for directing my energy and time towards where my gifts/interests are best suited to make a difference and let the rest go as much as possible - that has far more efficacy in helping to transform society and in keeping me happy :)

[@amandachaves9527]

I really enjoyed this video because my experience with therapy has been somehwat similar. No matter how well intentioned professionals are, they just can't relate to my problems. They tend to be from an upper middle class background, and mostly emphasize that I focus on things that I can control. However, when you're poor, there really isn't too much you can control and downplaying systemic factors is not helpful. Though they've been helpful in simply just listening to me vent, I always felt worse after therapy sessions and even more isolated.

[@Kathrin_yt]

thanks for sharing your experience, and for your comment, I'm glad the video resonated!

[@DusBeforeDawn2008]

What is the right thing to say to a poor person struggling with systemic factors?

[@amandachaves9527]

@@DusBeforeDawn2008 I don’t think there’s one specific right thing to say but I believe simply skipping over systemic factors can be wrong. I’ve found tremendous help from connecting to others who share my experiences with poverty. But finding community in a modern setting is often hard for people with limited means. Perhaps therapists could help people connect with groups that can relate who make people feel included and valued, and not just shamed by society for being poor.

[@TheNonAestheticWitch]

This is so incredibly validating, thank you so much for this. I started therapy around 15, and went through about 10 horrible therapists in my short time from 15-21 years old. In that time, I was consistently told "just keep attending, just keep going, we'll find the right therapist," yet there was always a cognitive dissonance I had about that notion- how long should I have to be going before I get better? How long before my issues are actually addressed through my minority experience, not through the lens of the norm? Therapy has failed a lot of us in these systems, and I relate a lot to that sentiment, "I feel I am the sane one living in an insane world." Honestly.

[@JamesVestal-dz5qm]

As an unemployed chemist and chemical engineer living at my parents house I agree. Therapists try to frame me as somebody who isn't willing to look for a job. I explain that I've spent 4 years looking for a job and recruiters simply never help me foster a relationship with the hiring manager at a chemistry or chemical engineering job that I qualify for and that career experts consider full employment. The therapist says I'm just not looking again, completely ignoring everything I just explained.

[@Kathrin_yt]

that really sucks, I'm sorry for your experience!

[@banaani2]

I appreciate that you mention patriarchy and oppression. There is so much to say about that. When you sit in a room with a therapist who is a white American male, he has no freaking idea what it's like to be a woman, an immigrant, oppressed, tired, exploited. He tells you that you have all the power in the world to change your circumstances (as soon as you become normal, of course).

[@Kathrin_yt]

Thank you!

[@goMikeMelo]

Intersectional leftist slop.

[@waltonsmith7210]

Everyone gets tired.

[@RandomDarter]

I have felt a gut feeling mistrust of therapy, and eventually i realized they are trained to get people to be a "functioning" member of a society that damaged the person in the first place. Part of that too I suppose is that the people in my life who expressed a desire to help me have ended up doing more damage than good. Good intentions aren't worth much.

[@djcoolbeat6934]

I use activism as therapy because actual therapy isn’t designed to challenge social norms that badly affects people - only coping mechanisms.

[@GaasubaMeskhenet]

I miss my good therapist.... I need therapy for how the others after treated me. They cut me off from care without warning. Sent me a letter i never got. No more meds for me. I'm too crazy to deserve help apparently....

[@chrominox]

You're never to crazy too deserve help. I think there's great self-awareness and empathy in you.

[@Kathrin_yt]

I’m really sorry you had this experience! It is very unethical to suddenly take care from people who have been made to feel they can trust the relationship that has been built!

[@Kathrin_yt]

@@chrominoxI agree, there’s no such thing as crazy. Just people who are in need of love and support ❤

[@moderngoblin]

I’m so sorry they treated you that way! I’m so sorry they are so atrocious and still allowed to practice. We need to raise the standards of care.

[@rumplstiltztinkerstein]

@GaasubaMeshkhenet I don't know if I can be of much help in a KZbin comment. But I think some times we are always looking for an absolute answer. And, sadly, people just don't know the answer to that question. Some people are happy and they don't know exactly why. Some people are not and they don't know exactly why. Maybe you are just a normal person. People often hide their feelings in social interactions. So maybe you are just speaking out your thoughts in situations where most people would hide their feelings. Causing this difference in expectations that result in us being perceived as a foreigner. So, in other words, you are being too honest with them. Maybe, in this crazy world, you are the person that understands you don't know the answer to that question. Most people think they do, they act like they do, but they don't. In conclusion, I would say that people talk confidently about subjects they have no idea what they are saying. You know that you don't understand a subject. That is a good thing. The issue is that many people don't understand that they don't know either. We can never truly know when we are 100% right or wrong. So we should always keep an open mind to everyone's perspectives. Including our own. Also, I am much happier being a weird guy that stands out in social environments than being someone that is easily forgotten. So maybe being weird ain't that bad.

[@hmmmwhatnow7124]

You're very wise, intelligent, and perceptive. I can connect with this a lot, which helps me feel a bit less isolated in this insane world. It takes great courage to share our most intimate thoughts and experiences like this, which is why so many people opt to just suppress everything and go with the flow of the insanity.

[@Kathrin_yt]

thank you so much!

[@H3rmon861]

Those kinds of videos are so important. It really helps me feel less alone. As much as I recognize the benefits of psychotherapy and the push for mental health awareness, I have to admit that sometimes there is this underlying assumption that all you need to do to get better is "get therapy" and everything will be fixed. For me, it created some very heavy feeling of alienation when all the therapy I tried were pretty useless for solving my situation. But the entire time, society treats therapy as a panacea for mental illness and when you tell them it’s just not working for some people, there’s this uncomfortable sensation of just being ignored. I often feel like they are treating me like I‘m the problem for not making it work and the entire response I get is just an awkward shrug of the shoulder and tell me to try another therapist until it clicks. I know this all anyone can say in this situation but still, it hurts a lot when even the solution that’s being given is useless for you. It just makes you feel hopeless

[@Kathrin_yt]

@@H3rmon861 I’m happy to hear it’s helped you feel less alone! I’m sorry the therapy system has failed you - I very much relate to the feeling of alienation, sending much love 💕

[@russellharrell2747]

Like everything in healthcare, therapy is meant to treat but not cure. You need those repeat customers! This video hits that topic directly! Also VO from Thought Slime, yes!

[@Kathrin_yt]

thank you!!

[@Hena11]

I love hearing the voices of others who I respect deeply

[@nataliegilmore3508]

I've had terrible experiences with spiritual healers as well as therapists. At least with therapists and mental health counselors there is a licensing board to account to. New age healers and other con artists will never face accountability for their harm and grifts.

[@Kathrin_yt]

@@nataliegilmore3508 yes that’s a very good point, I don’t intend to make out that “alternative” healers are the answer either

[@everythingispolitics6526]

Such a brilliant segment 👏🏾👏🏾💐💐. So refreshing to see a multilayered analysis of the psychotherapy industrial complex.

[@Kathrin_yt]

Thank you ❤

[@skiIler]

Hey, I am at the moment studying psychology to become a therapist myself. I enjoyed your thoughts about the subject a lot. In my environment, I also meet many people who struggle to find good therapists. Sadly it is the reality that there are not enough (good) therapists. Therefore I am always looking for answers to my (everlasting) question of becoming a good therapist. One of the answers to that question is understanding. Videos like yours where you share your experience and thoughts help tremendously in creating this understanding. Also, they inspire me too stay open about the experiences of others and to never invalidate them. Thank you so much for making this video. Also an uplifting bit of information, my university is very critical of the current mental health structure in our country (the Netherlands). A lot of things you mentioned are also talked about in our university. So rest assured that a lot of ideas you spoke of are still allowed freedom of expression at the place where every psychologist starts their career.

[@Kathrin_yt]

thanks so much - I really appreciate this comment and the validation that my thoughts make sense coming from someone with more experience in this field! Very happy to hear so much progress is being made in the Netherlands!

[@IshtarNike]

Seems like I've been super lucky with my current therapist. He's never invalidating, and he supports me when I complain about systemic racism and wider social issues that affect my life. He doesn't spend time trying to make me think differently. I'm planning on changing therapists because I need a more structured approach. But I'm honestly more appreciative of him after reading these comments. I'm really shocked and saddened by how many bad therapists are out there.

[@yellowbutterfly6796]

this is actually pretty well timed considering its something id been thinking about and seeing other people talk about their experiences online with the good and bad on therapy. happy you found some things that work for you. it varies for everyone yeah. and sometimes i worry about the line between whats best to work on individually and whats stifling radical thought or stifling me as an individual.

[@Kathrin_yt]

@@yellowbutterfly6796 yes that is a line I’m also constantly trying to figure out too!

[@nobodysXghost]

It’s either gaslighting or someone vetting everything you say like you’re the best person ever

[@richardwilson3548]

It's not a sane or even sensible world we live in. We have normalized dysfunction. Therapy just puts you back into that game. Being who you are and that coming through awareness is to me the only path to take. It's okay to be different. Peace requires norhing really materially. I reject that it is truly patriarchy though. It is very few men (and women as well) that are the real power. All those labels are thrown out to cause conflict with everyone not in that small socioeconomic group.

[@cheesydawg371]

In response to the pinned comment, I've had a lot of success from therapy for my OCD. OCD was kicking my ass and I nearly lost my life to it. Therapy and medicine turned that around. However even though it worked for me I still understand that therapy and many other seemingly good institutions are products of and thus reinforcements for the Capitalist system. Just as with everything, Therapy cannot reach it's full potential as long as Capitalism exists.

[@Kathrin_yt]

very glad to hear it was so successful for you, the last sentence summarises it perfectly!

[@chrominox]

I appreciate the points made in this video. There's a lot of care and nuance in your words and the way you say them. I found this very comforting and the sentiments ring genuine, honest and full of concern. You're not "selling" me an idea nor are you doing a bit. I understand how hard it must be to say the things you're saying. I will surely keep coming back to this video in different times through my life, because it makes me consider and think through things in an empathetic way. Thank you, Kathrin.

[@Kathrin_yt]

What a beautiful comment to receive, thank you 💕

[@glowerworm]

Your videos are so unbelievably good. I'm very glad I subscribed. The quality of these latest videos is honestly unmatched in my very long KZbin experience. Maybe I just think a lot like you, idk. I myself didn't like therapy at all and haven't gone back. My biggest problem was that I needed somebody to listen to me but more often the therapist just felt like an academic robot listening only for keywords and regurgitating statistically likely solutions which never remotely fit my circumstances. It also didn't help that I had to be very careful not to mention that I was suicidal because every time I did so I regretted it (when police were involved, when the local hospital was involved, when the helpline was involved and even when just my therapist was involved-four separate occasions). I learned painfully slowly that I should never mention that I was/am suicidal, and that realization made me feel all the more alone in my struggles. As it turns out, therapy is so volatile in quality it can actively make you *more* likely to kill yourself. Pretty ironic haha. I don't know the history so it's only my own theorycrafting, but I've always assumed pastors and shamans served the role of local therapist for villages and cities. At the very least, an emotional ear. I only got this idea in my head after my first good time on weed though when I realized the emotionally therapeutic usefulness of psychedelic drugs for some people. Then the stereotype of the shaman always high on some natural incense started making logical sense to me as a glue for a village's emotional well-being. But anyway, very good video. I'll be rewatching this one.

[@Kathrin_yt]

@@glowerworm thank you so much! This comment was exactly what I needed right now. And I appreciate you sharing your experiences, I’m sorry they were so traumatizing but it’s therapeutic to hear because I very much relate! ❤️

[@glowerworm]

@@Kathrin_yt i am sorry to hear you needed my comment, honestly. I guess I took it for granted that someone capable of this quality knew themselves and their skills very well. You definitely deserve to love and be proud of yourself (hopefully I haven't jumped to a conclusion haha) because from my perspective you're a bit of a role model.

[@MysteryPonyFiction]

In capitalism, it's impossible to be a good moral person, unless you are willing to be broke or homeless. This society rewards evil and sociopathic behaviour. Only those people succeed, at least when it comes to wealth.

[@tophat4866]

In want to throw my own two cents into the mix, I'm an alter who's had very bad experiences with therapy. I've consistently found that I, and my fellow system-mates, have had to explain to mental health professionals about what D.I.D. actually is, and about what being an alter is really like to some rather egregious extents that have very much made me question the extent to which therapists are actually taught about those of us with rarer and/or more complex mental differences. My system-family and I would talk about alterphobia, patriarchy, LGBTQ+ struggles, and upset at the status quo with them only to be largely dismissed and ignored. We've found many a time where we'd just rant to them about struggles just to have them nod along and not say anything of any real value or to invalidate us largely on the basis of us being alters and them refusing to understand what that's like. So much of the struggles that various members of our system-family have dealt with aren't things that can be internally solved. Things that we don't have individualistic power over. But suggestions about how to deal with our struggles were always about dealing with the internal and westernized warping of mindfulness, as if one's struggles were less about the people and the societal and capitalistic structures that hurt them, and more about their unideal reactions to it. For our system-family, mental health professionals ended up causing more harm than help. Slowly, the members of our system collectively realized that traditional therapy wasn't for us. That traditional therapy was for those who were of more accepted identities and dealt with more accepted struggles than us, and that traditional therapy focused so much more on supposed harm-reduction than actual help. Finding community spaces, befriending kind people, recognizing the evils and extents of capitalism, and most importantly, relying upon one another, has helped our system-family far more than traditional therapy ever has. So many folks tout traditional therapy as a necessity for good mental health, which is frustrating, 'cause it so obviously ain't, and that viewpoint only encourages capitalism-though that's beside my main point. Traditional therapy is a method for getting help that works for some people, especially those who fit the westernized ideal and are more comfortable with the status quo, but it doesn't for everybody. For people like me and my family, there are far kinder, far less expensive methods of healing, not merely the healing of yourself, but of the world around you.

[@spokeskeys6238]

My first therapist tried cbt for like 2 sessions then gave up. My second (current) therapist is the sweetest person ever and helped me through a lot of self esteem issues and self destructive behaviors.

[@alisiademi]

When humanity understands that this is all unhealed trauma symptoms and stops with diagnosing "depression" "bipolar" "adhd" etc, and most importantly starts talking about actual effective trauma healing methods like magic 🍄, we will make progress. Until then, we won't. A therapist will do nothing unless they are at least educating people about attachment style science, direct effective communication, and demonstrate an actual understanding of trauma.

[@AndreeaCe]

Some are psychopaths. So they will screw up your mind even more, and you're paying them... Some of them are psychopaths.

[@Cosmik_Horror]

I only started going to my therapist because I was being pressured by my aunts. Then when I start going to my therapist my aunt (who is a stereotypical mean girl-to-doctor) starts talking to them over the phone and they start being dismissive of my issues and chuckle a bit at my problems. Then they started asking leading questions directing me away from my concerns or feelings. The title of this video honestly is a bit of relief to see being talked about , especially when you know how gaslighting works

[@john-kc2sb]

Very relatable. Therapy has helped me in some ways, but has caused me a lot of personal trauma, mainly caused by the structure of society and incomplete data from studies. It always feels like they tell people to do some form of therapy or take a certain supplement, and then 2-3 years later it is debunked by other studies. It feels like mental health researchers are always chasing trends and influenced by media too much. Thank you for making this

[@Kathrin_yt]

thank you for your comment and sharing your experience ❣

[@architectsneedunions]

Thank you Kathrin for another great video. In my life so far I've only had one experience with therapy, which was largely positive. One thing I did notice, though, was that my therapist made it clear that this was not the place to discuss things that are wrong with society etc, but that we were only going to talk about me as an individual who needs to keep functioning and going to work. She did help me to achieve that. I think it's important and safest to be in a state where we can function well enough to avoid being pathologized and institutionalized, so that we can use our time to organize and make the change we want to see.

[@Kathrin_yt]

thank you! And yes I think that's a good point - that by healing ourselveswe can have more energy to put towards making the world a better place - it's not a neat dichotomy between the two!

[@naweedock]

I never trusted the capitalist society to solve my mental problems. It "only" took me a decade or so to fix myself, while half isolated from the world. I feel so much better now having broken out of my shell of alienation and all that. My conviction is that, for me personally, this path that I took would only have been possible in one of the Scandinavian nations that I live in , thankfully.

[@catalystcomet]

My therapist told me she thought I had a demon

[@nopressure6986]

I feel like this and the “put a raisin in your mouth thing” are the results of these therapists missing a step somewhere. Like, I can see where they were both coming from. Seeing a problem as an external being can help you think of ways to deal with it, and mindfulness can help you break off emotion associated with memory for a time. But the first step that a therapist has gotta do is validate. Say “that’s fucked up, and I get it”.

[@nopressure6986]

That or yours was a Christian counselor and was on some weird shit.

[@takke9830]

To be fair you can say that about most fields. Health is a bandaid for capitalist exploitation and erosion of the body, and therapy is a bandaid of the capitalistic erosion of the mind. It‘s a thing needed in a world where our minds are actively eroded. And I can say that coming from the field you are critisizing here. It is very true. And while therapy in my eyes is still fundamentally good if done properly ofc, but it would be willfully ignorant to blame the patient for their issues or shortcomings. But as a therapist, you are tasked to help the person live well inside the system. Not to overthrow it cause that is impossibly difficult and unrealistic. Doesn‘t mean therapists are fundamentally pro system. But it is difficult to help people when the thing hurting them is so difficult to shake up. It‘s more like damage control than actual fixing of things. And that is sad but also our reality.

[@hornsby618]

therapy is a tool of the punitive system that serves to surveil and control the population. there are *some* therapists that do work try and help address the systemic concerns their clients face tho. for example clinical social workers are trained to address clients as wholistic individuals existing in the many systems that put them in their positions, but even clinical social workers operate under and within these punitive systems. that is why as a social worker in training i refuse to be a clinical social worker, my goal is to work at the community level and/or the macro level. i want to help work with communities to change existing systems.

[@suffulufugus]

There is a problem that I've experienced where a therapist can't, almost by definition of their profession, accept that you might not get "better".

[@birdiewolf3497]

I’ve had a recently bad experience with a psychiatrist. I’ve actually been pretty lucky with mental health professionals so far. But man that psychiatrist seemed upset that I went undiagnosed with ADHD for as long as I did. I had to express to her several times that I just thought I was a bad person. I thought I was just being lazy. I thought I wasn’t capable of anything. Yes, it is crazy in retrospect that I was completely bedridden for 6 months, and did not connect that to depression. In hindsight that was extremely severe. But yeah, the dots never connected until I was attempting to self delete. It was very strange to see her being upset by this, she was like what about your parents and the schools? I was like yeah, my parents didn’t know anything about mental health until I finally was getting treated. The schools never did anything because I dipped out silently because of all the shame. I did not attempt to seek out resources at all, I didn’t even know there were resources to seek out. I was just getting grilled over why it took so long for me to get diagnosed with ADHD this late, and it’s like idk what do you want from me. As for my general experience with therapy, it’s been pretty positive for me. Now truth be told, systemic issues hardly ever came up in therapy even though I am a marginalized person. Because so much of my focus was just on functionality. I just want to be the person that can get up everyday take a shower and brush their teeth everyday. I wanted to stop letting my room turn into a garbage can. I wanted to improve my academic and work performance, and I wanted to help my social anxiety and show up more in my personal relationships. It doesn’t really come up for me because I was already reading and learning about these systemic issues even before I sought out mental health care. So maybe that’s why it never really comes up because I was already building that sociological framework. Like I was getting answers to those questions. Even when I was coming to terms with my neurodivergency, I turned to the community for resources and understanding. That was what helped me begin to let go of certain neurotypical expectations that only stress and depress me. I basically use my therapist has a sounding board that helps reminds me that I am on the right track, and I really do need that. Because if left to my own devices I will self sabotage. That’s what has become clear in this latest round of therapy. I’ll go into a session like yeah my life is shit, and I am doing nothing to fix it. Only to talk to my therapist and realize wait I am doing stuff to fix it. I do have positive traits. I am actually progressing. And I see that I need that to help get me to where I need to go, because I think in the past, I would sort of get to this stage and terminate therapy, and fall back into disrepair. Because if it is me, myself, and I, I will just shit on whatever I’m doing and revert. But yeah, I don’t really turn to therapy to manage things like classism, racism, misogyny, queerness, etc. Idk I guess I turn to sociologists or something of that nature for those things.

[@zxyaayxp9310]

I really love your content.. The part at 13:00 really resonated. I've been suicidal since I was about 9 or 10 years old, and have always been a loner with low empathy, which made me reactive, reclusive, and spiteful in a way that made me obsessed with violence, not necessarily perpetuating it, but observing, cataloguing, stomaching, surviving, treating, any manner relating to these. When I was pulled out of school at 12 or 13 after a history of poor conduct dating back to when i was a toddler, my grandma said something like " If you aren't careful, they're going to send you to the psych ward. I don't want to lose you." I still can't stomach the thought of going to therapy, and I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to release some of my deepest secrets, even thinking about them feels dangerous, like someone's going to find out who I really am. I probably wouldn't have even thought of that specific event had you not mentioned it. I'm really happy to hear about your spiritual progress too. I hope one day I can make as much progress as you have.

[@heatherwood8050]

I once knew a woman who purposely used the system of psychology to get away with abuse and exert control. She would read up about a mental disorder and then make up stories that had the themes of those behaviors about her children or a vulnerable person and then threaten her children with arrest if they didn't corroborate her story. Any time one of her children tried to talk about the abuse, she would invalidate them by simply stating they had this or that mental disorder and therefor nothing they said was valid. As a result, nearly all the people legally responsible for reporting the abuse did not do so. In retaliation, she would then have them sent away to mental institutions as punishment for having the gal to talk about what was going on. As a result of her and the institutions "treatment" these children did develop mental disorders such as PTSD. The woman responsible for all this, however, was never diagnosed with having any mental disorder probably because she seemed very normal to those who did not know her well. This is why I favor a more scientific, neuroscience and social environment approach to mental illness.

[@SallyLock103emeCaris]

Therapy helped me tremendously. I had PTSD, a teeny tiny ED and depression. Now after 4 years of therapy with a change of therapists in the middle because the first one showed some alarming signs of acephobia... I can happily say I'm pretty much cured from PTSD 🎉 Maybe I'll be fine in 8 years or so 😅

[@SallyLock103emeCaris]

I have to add though, my current therapist is adorable and makes me feel very much in control of the therapy. I'm the one doing the work, she gives me the tools I guess? She's not like an all knowing being or even above me or anything. The previous guy was a little bit more obnoxious like you described. Very much in a "Knowing", vaguely mysterious and judging posture. He helped me some because he was still ok overall, but I felt uneasy and sort of like an interesting but weird creature. The acephobia part was subtle and he probably didn't even realise he was dismissive of my feelings, and that's such a red flag to me! I'm so glad I changed.

[@Kathrin_yt]

it gives me hope to hear you have really been helped by therapy!!

[@Mistical1982]

I think it’s very complicated! Therapy and therapists are constantly evolving. I was trained in person-centred counselling, which btw is a modality where there is no expert!, but leaned into psychotherapy and transpersonal (inc. psychedelics!). More recently, I’ve moved into somatic processing. This profession is a process. If you get the right job you can explore your process, as opposed to being forced into E.g. doing nothing but CBT. Because we’re human beings too, we tend to be on the same journey as the client, in personal growth and development. There’s something beautiful about that - the meeting of two imperfect/flawed human beings. It is normally the client who expects perfection, in my experience, not the therapist. You also get clients who expect you to fix them. Well, as a person-centred therapist, I value client autonomy. So you get clients leaving early because you “weren’t very good at your job” or didn’t like you because you challenged them to think for themselves or the way they are. I read some of the comments on videos like this regarding bad experiences and take them with a pinch of salt. When someone reflects something back to you that’s uncomfortable, you project onto them. “They’re bad” “I need to get rid of them and get a new one”. We do this all of the time in our relationships. Relationships are mirrors! And therapy, at least person-centred, is all about the relationship. It’s a vulnerable place to be - even as the therapist! But it’s worth persevering. Sometimes you don’t get a good match - and that’s ok! No need to demonise therapy in general. The people I see moving from one therapist to the next and claiming that they were “all bad” are usually people who are afraid to face themselves. They project onto the therapist. Yes, of course there are incompetent therapists. But if it’s a theme, you need to explore why. Another point is comparing different kinds of therapies. I believe you need to figure out what the client needs and that’s not always easy. But every modality has proven to be useful for many people. The impact of some therapies are less obvious than others, and some take more time than others. Some might seem more impactful because they were received when you were more open or further along on your own journey. Also, different therapies are useful at different times of your life or points in your journey. The biggest indicators of change are the client’s willingness to open up, and the relationship between the client and the therapist (so the onus is largely on the client). Just to add, finally, that I work for a charity in the UK. We offer 20 sessions, and we work in a person-centred way, with other modalities thrown in as and when they’re required. It’s the most rewarding job! You never stop learning and you never get bored. I’m also a client, and I don’t want a therapist who says all of the right things. I want one who’s real, imperfect and authentic. What would I learn and how would it serve me in life if I can only get on with a “perfect” person, who doesn’t ever trigger me and shares all of my believes?

[@Kathrin_yt]

very interesting perspective, thanks for sharing. And your point about therapists being a mirror definitely gave me a lot to think about in terms of how my own experiences may be mirroring back to me some things within myself I haven't addressed. Thanks for sharing!

[@miac1305]

Through music, I'm happy that I can now identify my issues. I can now see when I'm disassociating and last night, and autistic meltdown. I can now prevent and soothe myself without shame.

[@Kathrin_yt]

that's amazing! I have also found music incredibly helpful too!

[@kf1439]

I have seen it all really, in terms of therapy. I have had therapists fall asleep in sessions, refuse to actually do therapy because *they* were too traumatized (while still charging me!), and I also had this one therapist who was just saying the same thing again and again, and I realized that she had never been listening! The few male ones I had were mixed. Some were OK, but one kept having to relieve himself, which could be reasonable, but left me feeling uncomfortable. He also barely knew me or my situation, but was quick to tell me to leave my partner (I wanted to, but wasn't able to, but he did not even know that.) I guess I concluded that humans are just too flawed to be trusted with some things most of the time. I kept a journal and did go through a lot of books based on various types of therapy, and just started trying to be more open and confronting the awful thoughts and feelings more, instead of trying to hide from them or suppress them.

[@ulysses7157]

The struggles i had were very much external. Even though I had anger issues steming mostly from my ADHD. The fact is that the difficulty of attainting finacial aid for college and the difficulty of getting a job that would pay enough, let alone if I could keep it long enough, and if I even have any ability of getting another one right after being let go, were just too much for me to bare. Despite my efforts to learn and improve my abilities in resume writing and interviews, getting an enormous amounts of rejections along with the fight or flight response I got from dropping out of college because of lack of finacial assistance turned me absolutly hopeless. My standards for a job were really low too and the fact I couldn't get that speaks volumes. I'm going through therapy and medication just so I won't feel so awful but I don't think it's enough. I just wish the job search wasn't so god awfully horrid. I wish going to college didn't have a cost to it either. I wanted to be an engineer so badly but I couldn't afford to. I hate this economy and the economic power structures in society so much.

[@Kathrin_yt]

I'm so sorry to hear of your struggles - it sucks that you weren't able to follow the job you wanted because the system makes it impossible to pursue!

[@vivvy_0]

do you have paypal or ko-fi?

[@ToadalSimplicity]

Thank you for putting together this wonderful essay. You’ve given me a lot of great suggestions for further reading and thought. Your comment on the performative aspects of being a patient puts words to something I had been trying to express to others for some time. I truly appreciate the excellent work you’ve done here!

[@Kathrin_yt]

thanks so much 🥰

[@kymbrown1614]

It's nothing to brag about "being sane in an insane world" as they say. I have had the same conversation with close friends often.

[@Colorcrayons]

I often point out to my therapist, that the more I think about my own problems, they seem to be generated by the shitty environment we are all surrounded by. And that I am expected to "fix myself" when I am not the one who needs to be fixed to solve my major problems, but that the issue is the society in which we live. Therapy is great. Great at highlighting just how fucking stupid our culture is, and how we are for enabling it to continue as it is. Therapy can and often is traumatic. And when you suffer from PTSD as I do, it seems to be a zero sum game more often than not. For example, I entered into PTSD therapy a couple months ago. First session someone kept coming in and out of the office, and eventually didnt even bother to knock anymore on the fourth entrance. I got up, told my therapist this is unacceptable and that this session is now over, and left. They convinced me to return and I did. 2 minutes into the 2nd session, my therapist is yelling at me. I repeat, my PTSD therapist is yelling at me, because I pointed out that what happened the first time will not happen again as it is unprofessional and I will not abide it. Other therapists from other offices are gathering into the hallway outside the office to find out why she is yelling. Needless to say, there are a lot of very unqualified people in this practice, and you shouldnt abide bad practices just because they have a license. They need to be complained about and reported. The problem is, most people wont because they have no idea what is bad practice, and are afraid to speak up.

[@BurnBluefireK]

My first therapist was my most helpful. But I think most of the help came from me being young (17) and not having much language to understand or identify the issues I have. That therapy would never solve my underlying issues but at least managed to help me build coping mechanisms. I was also very fortunate that she suggested early on that I was on the spectrum. I was in denial at the time, but remembering that further down the line helped me confidently self dx later. Understanding myself through that context alleviated a lot of the guilt and shame I had about myself. I haven't had any luck with talk therapy since. it hurts me more often than it helps by being put in a situation where I'm liable to be misunderstood in the worst setting possible. I've considered doing somatic therapy as I've become more conscious of how my body holds trauma even when I am unable to mentally recognize it. I really resonated with intellectualizing your trauma further alienating yourself from your body. I'm in the same hole. it often makes me physically ill because I can't recognize when I've gone way past burnout.

[@Kathrin_yt]

@@BurnBluefireK thanks for sharing your experiences! And I’m glad the video resonated with you 🥰

[@oshriperetz2538]

First video i watched of this channel, didn't know what to expect because the thumbnails are kinda attention-grabbing, which is mostly a red flag, but even youtubers gotta eat so I can't really blame ya. This was surprisingly high quality, and i very much enjoyed, very reassuring to hear all this from someone else, living in a very patriarchic and nationalist country kinda means I'm the only one criticizing therapy for these exact reasons. It gets lonely being told to go to therapy, after i was in it for like a year with what amounts to negative results. And not for something big or anything, just being constantly anxious from my "economic circumstances" and a shit situation at home. Thanks for the work you're doing, wish you well.

[@Kathrin_yt]

Thanks so much ❤

[@thatJackBidenTalksAbout]

post 1950s mental healthcare: individualize, pathologize, emphasize doing "the work," which never ends. or, just a reflection of the economic conditions.

[@nicholascarter9158]

Therapists are not actually general practitioners of mental wellness but highly specific specialists for addressing "I wish to no longer experience [emotion] when [thing] happens." Not "I want [thing] to stop, or be different." "I want thing to keep happening on, I just want to feel differently about it." It's like we're making orthopedic surgeons treat diabetes because it affects the feet.

[@misanek007]

I would radically align with Mark Fisher and say that there is no such thing as apolitical mental illness, all illness is political.

[@Kathrin_yt]

yesss!!! Love his work around mental health!

[@audiopainter68]

I release along my therapist is they could make any referrals for me, and they said no. All they could do was give me advice and knowledge. Having some sort of beauruecratic power would be the only way that I can conceive of what a therapist could actually area systemic issues. And a therapist who literally didn't even want to discuss the overeating factors of why you are in there office at all is obviously a bad therapist

[@BeepBoop-qt4eq]

Short answer: yes. The only way I got "better" is by fully and deeply understanding the mechanisms at play. Realizing I'm fncked and it's not my fault. Accepting reality, my reality. From a position of understanding and acceptance a person can figure out what to do, how to feel, how to be. The mental health *industry* in general, seems to be a mechanism to keep the slave class docile and deluded.

[@codyxvasco592]

How is locking me away from my life and making me sleep in the same room as someone who was also deemed too dangerous to be free beneficial for my mental health? Getting my hair ripped out by another patient isn't gonna help. They didn't let me go when I signed a 3 day, telling me I WILL be taken to court. I was kept for weeks, given a lawyer, who said "yeah it looks like they aren't gonna try to commit you you'll be able to go in a few days" They failed to provide anything they were legally supposed to. People die in these facilities. They are as functional as prison. I despise them. I've been in 4 times and everytime was a violation against humanity.

[@chrisj5505]

Well therapy under communism would be more like re-education of wrong think

[@MinomeEslinde]

That's why communism is not the answer to capitalism. But also notice the similarities despite the style difference. Misapplied CBT will also correct the wrong-think that at times outside factors are real and systemic, instead that Misapplied CBT will push to re-educate the patient back into believing that hyper-individualism and extremely aberrated implementations of neo liberalism with multiple jobs and long working hours and car centric based long commutes and constant air pollution and a food culture that is fast but not nutritious really is the road to contentment. Same method, different style of outfit. CBT applied within the proper range, can be very useful. The way NVC non-violent communication works extremely well, but only with in good faith actors, but extremely backfires when applied on in bad faith actors. Tip: if NVC is failing, you are dealing with an in bad faith actor, believe this litmus test and change to other tools accordingly. If all you have is a hammer, then using the hammer as a lownmower will lead to poor lawn maintenance results. Good tool selection and having multiple tools for the different types of jobs is key.

[@matthewspears3786]

Really great ideas here, glad it was shared on the therapyabuse subreddit. I unfortunately grew up with a narcissistic counselor as a mother and lived through the reality how playing counselor can be a huge power dynamic, as the dynamic says all the problems are in you, not me. Also there are almost no prevention mechanisms to stop narcissists or sociopaths from becoming therapists. Many famous therapists are theorized to have NPD. The drive up be famous can be part of that disorder Note that now we're in a time where individual therapy and learned helplessness is the norm. There have been counter currents, including family systems theory. A great example of what could work is Open Dialogue in Finland which morphed into Peer supported Open Dialogue in England. The focus is on no power differential and treating someone holistically. I'd also shout out to Bruce E Levine as he's a Maverick I love

[@grindedfranz]

Great video! Traditional therapy is just crap. It adresses symptoms more than underlying causes. Its not effective at all. The probability to heal simple depression is so low. It mostly just stabilizes the patient so he can go back to work. Until it comes back, because the symptoms only got soothed. I recently got into IFS (internal family systems) which doesnt surpress bad parts of us, rather integrates them into the therapy. Its VERY good so far. I can highly recommend.

[@Kathrin_yt]

I am actually currently reading ''No Bad Parts'' by the founder of IFS and surprisingly loving it, so very much agree with you! Thanks for your comment!

[@fluffycloud3529]

Okay my detailed thoughts now, part by part. 1. Privitization of pain. Just like you, I find it kind of baffling how we have such high degrees of mental illness within our society and yet every person who goes into therapy is treated as an anomoly. People think that *the person* needs to fixed, not the systemic issues that caused them to develop mental illness(es) in the first place. Of course I see that some people really benefit from psychiatric medication- but I can't help but think how many people are essentially sedated with antidepressants - disidentified from their pain so that they can continue being a good little cog in the machine. So that they won't think about revolutionizing and are essentially chemically lobotomized in a way... Same with ADHD medication. Now that I no longer work and don't have so much stress exasperating my symptoms, I can take life as slowly as I need to and I noticed that I don't really struggle with ADHD anymore? Yes, I have executive dysfunction- but I recognize that is just me being low on dopamine, that I should do something to recharge. Because I now have the time and space to care for myself, to be compassionate with myself... I am really doing well, when before I was always on the verge of, if not in, a state of depression and burn-out. If anything, I feel like I am contributing more to society this way. Doing volunteerwork, engaging with the local politics, making artwork/being on stage, and being of great mental and emotional support to a wide network of people. I can see the way my now vibrant presence, inspires others to be more true to themselves - relighting the flame of passion in their heart- and that provides me with much more purpose and joy than anything ever has before. To continue on this- I feel like the nuclear family as a standard, in combination with non-walkable cities and no 'third places', has created profound damage to our social structures in ways that is invisible to most (because this is now considered normal). The social isolation that comes from that, is a profound breeding ground for emotional abuse and neglect, without hope of local support. Humans are social, communcal creatures. Children are supposed to be raised by an entire village- so that the parents can get enough time to themselves to recharge and the children can learn how to be a good person from a multitude of examples! 2. Be Normal. As a fellow AFAB neurodivergent person, I really do feel this. What was considered normal for others, was profoundly ill-fitting and unsuitable for me. I still think the 'read-between-the-lines' standard that neurotypical people seem to have for communication and all the manipulation that seems so normalized, is absolutely stupid. Just say what you mean and talk about it if you feel there is an issue. Honesty (worded respectfully and with a gentleness where possible) is a kindness and helps people set healthy boundaries for their interpersonal relationships! 3. Insanity. I don't have to add much here, other than that whilst I didn't know that about Eichmann, it doesn't surprise me one bit. Malignant Normalcy is a term I am also glad to have learnt. 3. Insanity. I don't have to add much here, other than that whilst I didn't know that about Eichmann, it doesn't surprise me one bit. Malignant Normalcy is a term I am also glad to have learnt. 4. Prison. Whilst this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the points you made during this section, I thought of how therapy essentially pathologizes and dehumanizes a lot of human behavior. Way too quickly nowadays, friends will tell you to go to therapy- or cut you off with a "save that for your therapist". I think this is because people aren't taught how to help others emotionally regulate themselves, or how to sort out their thoughts/feelings- when that should be, imo, a basic human skill. One that improves your own quality of life, as well as that of the people around you. In a way, they paywalled human connection and it's fucking weird! What I see as the solution for a lot of mental illnesses, is a deep sense of safety. Whilst that is in some ways really hard to obtain in a world like ours (especially depending on your circumstances), it can be done: This kind of safety can be obtained when one has their basic needs met and belongs to a bigger social group that will care for them, as well as allow them to express themselves authentically. Having built such a group, I witnessed first hand what profound positive transformative qualities it can have on people- for myself and everyone belonging to the group. 5. Mind/Body. Gosh yeah, I can relate a lot to your experience. Only therapies that involved my body were ever any use to me. Other ones just made me more dysfunctional- adding more overthinking and helping me dissociate from my feelings (which brought me further from home in terms of processing my trauma). I feel like this is not just a problem in therapy but in the medical field at large even. The main cause of cancer is stress. The body and mind are deeply intertwined with each other. Especially since I delved into shamanism and chi-gong for myself, I've started believing and noticing that you can usually link a physical issue back to an emotional problem that was left undealt with. This is why we get sick on the first day of vacation too- our body finally goes to processing the stress that kept us standing and our immune system weakens for a moment- allowing a flu to come through. That said, you still need to deal with an issue in a physical way once it has manifested that way- but you can do a lot to help your healing process with emotional work and energy work. I feel like there's a lot of suppression via treatment going on (side-eyes the pharmaceutical industry) instead of actual curing. 6. Transformation. Again, I fully agree with the points you make. Every emotion, every feeling is a messenger- letting you know that a need was met, or is going unmet. Being in touch with your feelings, not medicalized out of them, allows you to set healthy boundaries and recognize what brings you fulfillment. They are a compass for you to guide you through life! Ever since I started seeing emotions that way- and since I started seeing my bad experiences as lessons- as happenings from which I could derive empathy and wisdom, I have been so much happier. It's a transformative, growth mindset- leaving space for you to empathize with and process your feelings - whilst staying optimistic that in the future this misfortune will serve you in one way or another! 7. The Psychology Of The Oppressed. "...The implication being that we cannot heal without control being exercised over us." DAMN that line hit me. As someone dealing with PDA, I feel automatic resistance when someone tries to exercise control over me. I am always highly critical of my caregivers at first, because I've had so many bad experiences with people deciding what was best for me and that playing into further abuse. Those last few sentences I really do agree with as well- as someone who is doing healing work on loved ones without any formal training: "I honestly feel that traditional education and training of therapists kills those natural gifts and skills; the curiosity, free thinking, intuition, creativity in therapists. So I would argue that the hierarchical way in which the system is set up, compromises clients' agency over our own healing." 8. The Trauma Industry. Just imagine me cheering and yelling "you tell em girl!! YEAH!" through out this entire section. I don't have anything of my own to add here. 9. Conclusion: Beyond The Sofa. Same as the previous point, I am incredibly happy to hear you speak out exactly what I have been thinking all along.

[@Kathrin_yt]

thanks so much for your wonderfully detailed comment. I so agree with you! That's such a good point about how people are so quick to direct others to therapy because in a way none of us have the energy/time/skills anymore to help each other through tough times. It's almost like a get out of jail free card to tell people to go to therapy - but can also really shut down people's desire to open up because it feels dismissive sometimes. And yesss I also noticed since I work from home and on things I am passionate about I rarely struggle with ADHD/Autism anymore, in face I mostly see it as a gift, but that's because I can work with how my mind works rather than against it. Anyways, thanks again for your comment - really appreciate you taking the time to share all of this ❤‍🩹

[@fluffycloud3529]

@@Kathrin_yt Thank you for your kind answers to my comments in return! I was thoroughly impressed with your work, so I wanted to show my appreciation

[@Kathrin_yt]

@@fluffycloud3529 thanks so much ☺️

[@jackgude3969]

This was so good! I feel like you elaborated on a lot of things the little voice in the back of my head said. I think I had some pretty different experiences with therapy but not many that I would describe as positive. I feel like everybody had their one thing. One guy was all meditation, one was all medication, one straight up said there's nothing I can do for you until you go 3 months without smoking weed, drinking is fine, whatever, no problem at all with alcohol. Then there's the religious nutjobs. One that suggested a bubble bath when I felt like hurting myself and strongly suggested that every bad thing that ever happened to me was actually my own fault. Woven through all of modern life is the assumption that if you're unhappy about anything, that emotion is the problem. The most progressive solution is allowing you to feel the feeling but not express it of course. Maybe in private if you can afford privacy. Most therapists just go straight to "I have a pill for that" and just immediately write you off if you don't want the drugs. Like you're refusing cancer treatment, implying that a thought or feeling is a sickness to be remedied, a mental virus that requires the scouring obliteration you can only get from american pharmaceutical conglomerates. Sorry I'm just ranting now but the thing that always killed it for me was the unshakable recognition in the back of my mind that I was paying a stranger to essentially pretend to be my friend for 45 minutes a week. What an absolute nightmare. 8 billion people on this rock and I have to pay someone who can't even pretend to care most of the time for 45 minutes once a week. The darkest, loneliest moments always come when I'm with other people, from moments like that, where you reach out for help and the world reaches out to take your credit card.

[@carsonpaullee]

Wonderful video it encapsulates my feelings on therapy. I also have an issue with the term and diagnosis of cotard syndrome - it includes all people who know of life before and after death and birth, most people… it’s a declaration of war on our own spirituality and bodies.

[@Kathrin_yt]

thank you - and that's fascinating I had never heard of that before

[@west221b]

Much of therapy, et al. has become the second estate, picking up where religion left off.

[@hiddenmutant]

This is why it took me 6 attempts over many years to find a good therapist. They do exist, and I did need therapy. My therapist is also neurodivergent himself, and has bipolar disorder. He's a disabled veteran with a history of ab*se of his own, who has never been middle class, and saw me for free for many sessions when I needed it. I agree that many therapists casually gaslight patients, and I had many tell me that the extreme symptoms I experienced weren't real, weren't that bad, were because I didn't pray enough (Christian-focused therapist 🙄), or that I was making them up for attention.

[@cometogether]

the goal of a good therapist should be to work themselves out of a job. great video! especially appreciate the nods to Freire, i think your point about therapy as banking is spot on there

[@Kathrin_yt]

Thank you ❤

[@fluffycloud3529]

My gods you hit the nail right on the head with all of these talking points! You did incredible, I applaud you! I've sent this video around in my social circles, hoping to spread the message you've put into words with what I consider both nuance and a sharp critical edge. I've subscribed! I'd definitely like to hear more from you

[@Kathrin_yt]

@@fluffycloud3529 what a beautiful comment thank you 🙏😍

[@Kathrin_yt]

@@fluffycloud3529 and thank you for sharing the video around ☺️

[@PeterFitz-n4h]

I found this to be incredibly insightful, validating, and helpful to my own understanding and processing. So…..thank you!

[@Kathrin_yt]

thanks so much! 💓

[@communismenjoyer1858]

Haven't watched your video yet but I have been thinking about the title for awhile now and it's extremely depressing. Good thing there's therapy... or... wait (Excited to watch the video and ty in advance for making it)

[@johnjones8850]

I think there are some valid critiques here. I think that therapy can and often does end up being a way of pushing conformism. However, I think most of this video can be reduced to the problem in therapy about addressing CPTSD and PTSD. The thing is that CBT has never worked on PTSD. Exposure therapy only works if the patient is willing to go through hell. Only recently, are some clinical psychology practices coming out that may be effective. Academic psychology is still trying to catch up with those practices and evaluating whether those practices have efficacy. If you have something like depression or anxiety, CBT and some of it's offshoots, like MBCT, are still the best. At least second-generation antidepressents only last 2 years, and academic psych is still struggling to figure out why. I didn't look at the recent 3rd gen antidepressents yet. I think a lot of the critiques are against a very 1950's model of therapy, which is either long gone, or any psychologist still practicing that needs to have their license pulled. I don't think returning psych to the people as a folk practice from a hierarchy with licensing boards and ethics boards on top is the right solution.

[@boogiemcsploogie]

Hey thank you I stumbled across this video by accident and its given me a lot to think about. Will rewatch in a few days.

[@Kathrin_yt]

thank you! 💞

[@toppersundquist]

Head popped up like a marmot at every guest voice I recognized.

[@bootedbuilds]

Hi, sorry, I intended to watch and respond sooner, but your last video gave me a lot of food for thought, and I knew this one would be the same. I will, probably, never ever go to a therapist again. Every single one I tried was horrible. The last three I saw left me so traumatized, that Im still not over it 4 years later. And I honestly don't see the point in trying to find a therapist to help me deal with it, because none of the therapists I've ever spoken to was helpful. At best, they just didn't cause new damage.

[@JerryBurn]

People will literally go to therapy instead of simply seizing the means of production.

[@JerryBurn]

Sorry if this came off as anything more than a joke. Your experiences with most (but not All 😱) therapists mirror my own and I genuinely appreciate you putting things into words that I've been unable to. Subscribed ✊️❤

[@minnaface6842]

Thanks for this Kathrin, I love how thoughtful and considerate you are, and your soft nature ❤ I really agree with a lot of this. I am an abolitionist but wonder what your thoughts are on how we can have transformative justice practices when so many of us are traumatised from this society, from being abused and neglected as children to the trauma of poverty, racism, etc. This leads so many of us to be narcissists and perpetuate oppressive behaviour. Dr Ramani, a clinical psychologist who specialises in narcissism said she thinks roughly 1 in 5 people are narcissists and it's very difficult for them to change their behaviour. I grew up with a narcissistic father, have had narcissistic bosses and currently live with my narcissistic brother in law. I literally cannot have right and healthy relationships with them, and resolve conflicts healthily. It's so damaging to see the wreckage they leave in their intimate and professional relationships, especially harming kids through neglect, abuse etc. How can we as a society build a better world and resolve conflicts healthily if such a large proportion of the population won't change? Ultimately the root of the problem is childhood trauma which needs to be addressed to prevent the proliferation of narcissism. But how do deal with the narcissists in our current 🌎??

[@lilpetz500]

This exploration has answered some really long running difficulties I've had in recovering from things that have made basic self care so hard the last few years. I constantly run into a wall while processing all these thoughts; I know so much of my pain comes down to being failed by a system...but what does it achieve bringing political context into my sessions? Will it even be addressed, or sidelined? I mean I get it, financial income and limits to it by my work abilities are a frequent source of stress and root to many problems, and it...will feel weird to express and unpack that to someone who earns over $100 per hour. (rightfully, but the problem lies in my income forcing me to tread water and be constantly strategic, fearing losing access to human rights like shelter if I make a mistake) And sure, there's a lot that can be helped without taking the politcal change route...until political forces become so overwhelming and consuming of my energy, that it would just be dishonest, heavily filtered, avoidant of a lot of my pain to not mention them. So much systemic pain cannot be healed without addressing the elephant in the room.

[@FerventAstronomy]

As someone who’s partner is a psychologist and who’s had lots of personal experience with therapy… I’m quite glad to not live in the UK, frankly. Your experiences with it sound absolutely terrible and I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that. On this side of the Atlantic I’ve had quite consistently positive experiences, albeit I might benefit by being partnered to a psychologist (kind of like how chefs know all the best restaurants).

[@Kathrin_yt]

I also feel lucky that I have access to a lot of free therapy via charities and organisations in the UK - happy to hear you have had good experiences overall!

[@FerventAstronomy]

That’s good at least, not enough people who want therapy have access to it. I’m just shocked by the list of wild therapy experiences you’ve had. Ethics in psychology is (supposed to be) sacred, and a lot of what you mentioned would be more than enough to get people’s licenses suspended

[@catherineharber6514]

Thank you so much for having the integrity and courage to speak about this 💫. You're absolutely correct 💯. The capitalist countries have trained therapists to pathologize some of the most oppressed demographics while totally ignoring the plutocracy of psychopaths who are responsible for causing the most human suffering via corporate, medical, and political legislations. I'm not going to say who because I don't want your channel to get in trouble for "trolling" in the comments. But a very popular KZbin psychologist with over 1 million followers is now equating: people who want fair working conditions (not the ridiculous amount of overtime expected {60+ hours per week as the new norm}) and affordable housing as "vulnerable narcissists." I've even heard other therapists label activists who are confronting the ensuing neo-feudalism as "high functioning autistic." My common sense and intuition keep telling me that this is a ploy to socially engineer the masses into accepting living conditions that are akin to the Gilded Age. Suggested reading: 'The Coming of Neo Feudalism' by Joel Kotkin.

[@fluffycloud3529]

I feel you so so much. I want to leave a more indepth comment at a later time but I just want to thank you for talking about this- cuz this has been going through my mind for a while

[@Kathrin_yt]

@@fluffycloud3529 thank you, looking forward to you more in depth comment ☺️

[@gregorysouthworth783]

It is important to ask a patient: do you see your coping mechanisms in life helpful? If the answer is no, then what can we work towards to help you find solace in your ability to cope? If your issues are systemic (familial, social, work, school, economic, something else) what can we do to either: 1) adapt to the situation you find yourself in, or 2) look at alternative systems, which are sustainable for you? Then 3) if #2 is accurate, then how do we/you get there? We also have to be open to the possibility that the alternative is outside the established norms current society has set. That requires work to find those alternatives which may currently exist, or if creating new ones are in order, what work needs to occur to accomplish the creation of new system? (letting the patient know that while that can be scary, it can also be exciting and rewarding as finding a social support network may be part of that healing process). I happen to think the current system is quite broken and I often find myself helping patients survive a troubled system. For those strong enough and motivated enough, I hope to help them acquire tools to challenge that system and help create a new one.