Is This The End Of eBike Racing? | EMBN Show 352

[@embn]

What would you like to see done in eBike racing?

[@tim__sadler]

Unfortunately there isn't the revenue in the industry to invest in the skills and infrastructure needed to address the grass roots of eBike racing. It needs new tracks which provide the needed challenge for ebikes, along with all the technical equipment to identify cheats (which is a HUGE issue...let's not ignore it, even local trail centres are full of chipped ebikes). But lets be pragmatic - do we 'need' racing to grow a sport? Isn't this just how we have always done it... ? Isn't this just the roadie talk taking over again? Why can't we consider a new model for growth?

[@julianshepherd2038]

MMA

[@franciscocardoso7882]

Racing like XCO , lets see the racers on technical climbs shoulder to shoulder, because racing against time like DH racing with ebikes makes no sense at all.

[@lukasvrana6388]

XC and DH cattegory - pedalling up the hill and descending. Trail/XC bikes with longer tracks, DH/Enduro with shorter but more steep tracks.

[@jap7856]

So the issue with eMTB racing is the bike industry! They don't know how to grow / promote the eMTB racing, or build race courses to race on. Most of the race courses that I have raced on are for aMTB and are too easy for a eMTB. The eMTB race courses should have techy up hill & down hill section and be in the range of 4 to 6 miles in length. Only few organization here in the USA have been able to create a good eMTB series. PS: The Sea Otter Classic will NOT have an eMTB race class in 2025, so how is the bike industry going to grow a sport (eMTBing) if they don't want to support/promote it.

[@Cajo22]

These guys from Discovery/Warner Bros. are a serious threat to ALL type of mountain bike sport!! Someone should take a stand and build another World Cup, like EWS, to bring the real spirit of Enduro/e-Enduro back!! Surely the people would love it much more…

[@gordoncahill1170]

Yep. Between them and the UCI it's all but impossible to watch enduro let alone e-enduro. Them taking over is the worst thing to happen to MTB and eMTB in forever.

[@MrO1i1]

We really need a specific high level e-bike race series in the UK. The 1 off Bosch sponsored ebike race at Ard rock was fantastic and included a power uphill stage and technical 'not foot' zones. Adding an ebike class to a normal enduro is not enough and it wont develop the skill for the world series. Cheating is also not checked even at a basic level and needs to be addressed. Ive personally seen and even heard people bragging about racing their de-redistricted bike whilst in the middle of a enduro race. You cannot expect or rely on self governance on this issue and it really puts a damper on entering any ebike class racing.

[@paadillaa]

Here in Oaxaca there is a very active emtb community the climb segments on strava get new KOMS often and they are really competitive. you guys should come soon! there are some really long and technical climbs here (1600+ m of technical climbing)

[@maxwelllong3308]

I agree with Enrico. Ebikes definitely make the most sense in an enduro format. I think changing that format slightly to have more, technical uphill stages, and just really showing people what is possible with these bikes, is what will help E-Enduro find its place. I also think that what is holding it back in a lot of ways is old school mentalities from the UCI and really just the mountain bike community in general. There's still so much hate and misunderstanding about emtb in the bicycle world. The motorsports world seems to totally get it, and even has emtb classes at some events. I'd rather E Enduro stay in the arena of bicycle racing, but it is kind of a hybrid between mtb and moto (though very much still a bicycle discipline and riding experience). I personally find E Enduro way more appealing than analog Enduro. I'd rather have uphill stages and stay on my bike than have to take the gondola or push the bike up the hill. That doesn't really feel like the spirit of the sport.

[@TCraigLinz]

I use my ebike to climb up to the best local DH tracks available, therefore I certainly identify with the enduro format. I'm not much for using it on cross countryish types of trails. I get the pedal bike out for that.

[@embn]

It's so much fun seeing what is possible to climb on an eBike, just make sure nobody is coming the other way first!

[@rrs1379]

any mountain biking in any form needs to be taken away from the uci there destroying mountain biking as a hole

[@alexbiketester]

hole or whole?

[@Whyusadd]

100%

[@Dannyjones1]

Big hole?

[@turbolevo8703]

*Any *They’re *Whole

[@tmstriveon]

Agree 100%! People continue to ride ebikes as motorized mtbs - meaning, doing same trails, over and over again without being to tired! Ebikes is ANOTHER sport. A MIX of MOTO and BIKE. Also, it's usual for testers showing ebikes climbing boring, width trails, that the only advantage regarding MTB, is going faster. Riders/youtubers should start showing what's capable of riding on eMTBs. And yes, it's a lot of effort, and yes, it's not for sofa zapping ebikers. It's for FIT EBIKERS. The idea behind most is: Ebike = old/fat/not fit

[@michaelcuddihee6754]

I love my EMTB, but in competition there is no way to ensure a level playing field. If there was a way to ensure everyone has the same power to weight ratio , that would be the first step.

[@dougie336]

This is the reality of literally all motor sports though and that's half the fun!

[@MyBonio]

@@dougie336 Wrong try the Amflow

[@tamasvarga67]

Racers don’t have the same power to weight ratio that makes the difference.

[@ZFit11]

Steve Jones went for the Christopher Walken look. More cowbell please! 😂😅😎👍

[@bikingmadx]

Look at most motorised sports there are limitations on capacity and power to make things competitive, perhaps e-MTB events need similar on torque and power classes with the ability to validate these at each event and keep the competition alive. The danger is that motors will continue to get ever more powerful and it will become a race of technology/power.

[@vipergtsrgt1]

The fact that a lot of people can't make it up the hills is what makes it so exciting. It's like motorsports, when there's a greater chance of failure, it increases the drama. When everyone is able to successfully complete the task at had, it's less exciting.

[@drahoslavhorvath]

It looks like other manufacturers are scary of amflow/avinox system. I am now a very huge fan of this new system but comparison with bosch/Shimano are with another world. Especially in sprints... team with avinox system will win in 2025 for sure.

[@bobbykingma4109]

I guess the new CX motor exploded when Steve used it, just ook at his hair.

[@b45her]

lots of the pros hated the power stages, i was talking to a former E-EWS/EWS pro only a few weeks ago, they basically turn it into lightest rider wins as they can pull huge time gaps on the up hill stages.

[@Jasonmountainbiker22]

Ryan Gilchrist isn’t the lightest rider. He’s powerful and has a very high skill level.

[@JorenMathews]

They could do weight classes. Physical size being a factor is hardly new to the world of sports.

[@TheGaymo]

Power stages really suck to watch, and it's not a type of riding I'm interested in as an ebike owner. They should be used so the racers can get in more quality DH stages in places that don't have chair lift access but awesome trails, and not be physically crushed by tight climbing transfer limits.

[@vitalii1372]

I guess they canceled E-MTB category for 2025 due to no one is ready to compete with DJI Avinox yet ))

[@embn]

Interesting theory, but as Steve said in the video power isn't everything 👍

[@hargs]

Bosch should create their own series with Monster or RedBull - All riders can use the same motors and can tune then (minor advantages but no manufacturer differences).

[@Videomorgue]

Not everything needs to be a sport or a race. Top athletes don't need the assistance of an electric motor, and I didn't buy an emtb so that I could go racing.

[@ashleynicholls9526]

I thought this said it was the end for EMBN, as there is more EBike content on GMBN than there is on this channel 😏

[@massimofederici9207]

I think the best way is to have "mixed" PS (scratch test) with uphill/descent/flat terrains, where rider skill could do the difference.... to win OVERALL. pay attention to motors....maybe an open class for SUPERTURBO bikes.

[@thebodaciousbing3950]

Having a technical power stage in an endro race makes it a around more sport. I believe technical climbing , and uphill flow will catch on with a vengeance in the next few years.

[@Ndc710]

Loved the show Steve.

[@embn]

Thanks for watching!

[@mik1037]

Since you asked, FEEDBACK: ebike racing coverage was always an afterthought, I was often disappointed and wanted more proper coverage of the different stages! PLEASE LEARN from Formula-E, embrace your difference and tech in the ebike world. Use drones for camera coverage, have information available to the audience like how much battery the racers have left at different stages, the motors they're on, with their rankings. Bring the E-MTB to America, bring it to the U.S and Canada. If you haven't already, have the races and demo days together so people can get hooked. Have your own race series and governing body, forget UCI, they will always hold you back because you have motors, they will never properly support you. Use what the moto companies do well, compared to what the mtb racing does wrong. MTB racing is and always was a hard sell but moto racing was always an easy one, learn from that. Be even more unique!!! Differentiate yourself completely from enduro and dh, learn from redbull, they constantly innovate compared to UCI. Know your audience and how to reach them easily. Having to fish through enduro videos to get to the E-enduro sucks👎. Understand that your fan base is most likely older because they are the ones buying e-mtbs but inspire the young generation also... Have different classes, your limited 90nm production class and open class over 100nm for development, like IMSA does with the prototypes, lmp1, GTs... Maybe even an all aluminum class to keep costs down for amateurs, aluminum frame, aluminum wheels... Maybe have a bonus battery charge or full battery bonus for non-pro riders or have fans vote online who gets the extra battery charge... Have different courses, more flats sections, up and down, not just using the enduro course with a few added climbing stages. Please don't think you'll attract more viewers if the racers are more skilled, WRONG approach!!! It's ok if many fail the climbs, it's part of the suspense. However maybe balance the points out a bit better between climbing and other stages... There is a massive opportunity IF YOU THINK outside the box, don't do old-school thinking, partnering with old-school UCI that hates you, that's why it failed. Be brave, strike out on your own, hit both sides of the industries, bike and moto, I bet you'll find new and better partnerships in DJI, GasGas, Bosh and so on... 🤟

[@StrongmanTaylor]

I race both Ebike XC and Ebike Enduro. I live in America. The problem I continue to run into is, some races are on National Forest grounds and they still have outlawed ebikes on single track trails. There is a XC series that has seven races in my area, but I am only allowed to race three of those on my ebike. Same thing with the Enduro series. There are four races but I am only allowed to race one. Also prices of ebikes are still too expensive. My "XC" ebike (a turbo levo) I have spent almost 10k with the purchase, upgrades, ect. I just bought a Crestline 180 last week (pre order) and it was 10k. Planning on riding Big Mountain Enduro and Mega Avalanche on the Crestline. To have 20k in just ebikes isn't feasible for a lot of people.

[@hein_mcleod]

The majority of mtb races in South Africa offer a emtb class now. Same route but classified in its own class. Emtb only events are still in its infancy but hopefully will pick up as the amount of emtb's on the trails are going up every week!

[@embn]

That's great to hear, they are doing the same here in the UK! It would be great to start seeing some grass roots power stages at these events 🤘

[@dylansalt1]

Not as an official series though - mainly as fun event because they are doing the exact same routes as the pedal bikes

[@brianthompson1045]

You first need to have bikes that are affordable for families to buy. They need to be cheap enough to buy a new one every 2-3 years. You need youth to grow up riding these bikes to truly have athletes that can demonstrate their limits.

[@davinci69]

Kart racing is a thing. And its pretty much just as expensive

[@davinci69]

Kart racing is a thing. And its pretty much just as expensive

[@lja3657]

Kids on e-bikes will make motto racers not grown up e-bike racers

[@LordHolley]

​@davinci69 kart racing is more expensive imho.

[@davinci69]

@@LordHolley my point stands

[@MikeO-dr7hn]

Did I understand right that Steve mentioned (paraphrasing) that he agrees that "a full twenty niner is the proper choice"? If so, I'd like to see an episode from Steve on why this, how it effects geometry and different types of rides; especially trail/uphill.

[@BenM-nv6mu]

You really should do a review of eFAT bikes I have just bought a Moustache Samedi 26 FAT 24, I have been mountain biking since the 1980s, bought a non electric Fat bike for the beach 7 years ago and since then its all I ride. I know they are heavy, noisier tyres, and they can "track" a little at speed, but they are just so much fun, Hence I took the plunge and bought the epower bike. and lets face it, with the power available it negates these negatives. C'mon Stevie - come on over to the dark side, if only for a review! Thanks for the great channel!

[@alexbiketester]

You need equal power to weight ratio to make ebike racing fair.

[@Numberofbillion]

Yeah love the hair Stevie, Enduro racing suits most ebike racers, but not everyone likes extreme climbs that only half of the worlds best can ride & some of us don't want to scratch our blinged & fettled pride & joys, local powerstages end up 'power-to-weight' stages. Ebikes need some kind of Parity if future bikes are going to pull 1000+watts & Yes - someone needs to invent a gadget for the cheats.

[@jonnywalker169]

Great show the E bike industry needs to get behind E endro they've made enough money out of it put some back in sponsor the events the rider's will come

[@embn]

It's a great way to show what eBikes are truly capable of!

[@stianjarnass]

I have to be a bit party crusher 😅. But I'm back on my Ghost hybride with E8000 and 66,7 head angle. And honestly it's more than enough. 75nm is all the power I need. Even though the battery is "only" 504w it's over a kilo lighter than the 700w's.

[@Steve-r3g]

e-enduro is interesting in that technical climbing stages are the only really unique aspect of the sport compared to regular enduro. And as you guys discussed tech climbing is very difficult and requires specific skills that riders really don't need unless they are competing. As a sport I'm not sure I agree that e-enduro makes much sense. And if the disciplined somehow changed to something like XC then the policing of motor and battery spec's would raise to a new dimension and still might not be very compelling. Again, these issues don't seem to lend well to competition. The "regular " model of creating competition for brands and sponsors to, essentially, create demand for the products, doesn't seem to work for e-mtb. While just going for an e-mtb adventure ride is one of the most enjoyable forms of mountain biking on the planet. As an American in Colorado I will add that we have so far to go simply to normalize riding e-mtbs on mtb trails that any kind of e-mtb racing seems counter productive. I wish you guys would speak to what the market wants and needs and ditch the competitive / sponsorship model.

[@dimebagdarrel4784]

Does this mean that we will see less E-Enduro bikes in the future and R&D focusing more on climbing bikes?

[@wgservice]

could ye compare e-bike racing to special stage car rallying? Set stages, mix of transitions, technical uphill stages (timed), downhill stages and cross country single track from point a to point b (timed). categories based purely on battery size on the bike (no external extenders allowed) - up to the rider to conserve or use the battery power. To bolster this, manufacturers need to focus on reducing cost and making it viable to replace a bike every 3 years, or sett frames and motors to build old bikes into. Standardisation of motor fittings needs introduced.

[@troymortimer3487]

I would to see e-enduro race unmapped terrain. Ie. ride to the top of alpine summit. Then race some pole marked track down. It would open up line choice and demonstrate what you can really do on a emtb

[@keirenferguson6486]

Skip the DH ebike sections, just run 6 or so power stages. Points system like trials. Shorter TV viewing time and better spectator viewing

[@MyBonio]

AMflow has put the final nail in the coffin in ebike racing hahaha

[@mutleyadamsracing2684]

Ebike power and torque must be capped otherwise its no different than having a throttle if the power is unlimited in class1 ebikes.

[@mutleyadamsracing2684]

@JamesGoddard-i7s power is not capped if you get 600-1000watts you goober. That 1000watts is 30sec at a time so after 30secs u can hit it again and again lol. Torque doesnt matter, ha tell that to a 140# guy racing you up a hill on that 120NM rig!! You dont know how ebike power is delivered so your arguement was bad dude! I own a Pivot AM and a Canyon Spectral On so I kinda know ebikes in and out.

[@lostintransit5822]

WTF has happened to Jones’s hair😂

[@julianshepherd2038]

Wisdom.

[@asifitmatters1]

Close encounter of the combed kind!

[@denisomahoney5464]

@@lostintransit5822 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@titiand]

It’s from going fast!

[@Magoo71]

He's literally losing it....Father Time is a cruel bastard.....

[@robhaskins3068]

I've always said Emtbs are not for Racing just sheer Fun Fun Fun. Surely XC and Downhill covers everything competive mtb tribe members need. Maybe if you must have Emtb racing long knarly uphill sections only would work????? With a total weight handicap???? The magic of Emtbs is that they turn us into gleeful kids again and multiply the joy of one of mans greatest gravity cheating inventions the bicycle. They are a Time Machine. "Downhill both ways" E=mtb² Do we really need to race them and surely strava allows for those who need to beat people.

[@porroco]

Yeti still has the old 160e with shimano ep801

[@aston108]

Steve's Bed hair!!!!! 😂

[@deadagain9227]

what's baldrick from Blackadder doing on the show :)

[@jeanmarc_in_Hudson]

I like Steve's hairdo !

[@Cajo22]

😂😂

[@etienneboucher9510]

6:54 "How to prevent tcheating" ? Simple, put the only one simple rule: the weight of the bike is a % of the weight of the pilote = no bullshit speed limit, nothing complex to check 25km/h is a uthopia ! I'm sure many have a secret button to remove this eracy !(first thing I'd install before considering RACING eBike: no racer can bear speed limit in any sport !)

[@noelwelch1666]

Hope so , but doubtful

[@sakiszougras5056]

Whare is this place?

[@embn]

They're in Finalborgo!

[@ssjj9584]

He used the word Motorcycle like E enduro 😂 Maybe that’s why it’s not MTB enduro

[@Jasonmountainbiker22]

Very disappointed to hear no E Enduro racing! It’s time to put the adventure back into Enduro and E Enduro and stop chasing the pseudo mini down hill stages. Start traveling the world again. Take the sport back to South America, Australia and New Zealand. There was nothing better than seeing Sam Hill race in South America with the crowds lining the trails. Showcase countries and regions, showcase the culture, food and people. The EWS highlights real was great. There’s doesn’t need to be a camera on every part of every trail.

[@Lizard7AR]

manga, manga que te fa be 🧐🍗🥩🫓🧆🦞🦞🍮🥧🍷🍻🤩🤩🤩 thanks for the video Steve & Enrico 🙏