Is Tim Duncan vs Kevin Garnett even a debate?

Pat and Rone discuss the best power forward to ever play basketball. Rone says that Tim Duncan benefitted by playing in Gregg Popovich's system, while Pat says that being great while surrounded by other greats is an even greater feat.

[@jackmehoff2503]

Any answer outside of Timmy is simply unacceptable

[@Rodrickfinley2474]

Timmy definitely the best!! Personal favorite rasheed "beast" wallace!!!

[@jackmehoff2503]

@@Rodrickfinley2474 Sheed is my fave 4 as well

[@jdizzle3642]

Dont forget about my boy dirk

[@jackmehoff2503]

@@jdizzle3642 what about him?

[@cameronjohnson9361]

Yea because it’s not like he played the 5 the majority of his career

[@jackwilson5305]

People don’t realise Duncan was the system. Edit: I’ve started a war in the replies

[@aguywithaname7764]

Underrated comment and VERY underrated player

[@mazzb305]

That was my first thought. Dude is buggin 😂

[@meekmill8042]

No he wasn't smh

[@therealdakshina1051]

​@@meekmill8042 what have the Spurs been without Timmy?

[@brownjoshua1]

@@therealdakshina1051 they were still a good team that was winning 50+ and 60+ games a season. Ppl forget that TD joined a team alongside David Robinson. Look him up. Give KG David Robinson, manu, TP, Bruce Bowen, Kawhi Leonard and others then the conversation may be different. Team success plays a huge role in individual success. Unfortunately in Minnesota he didn’t have anyone with mentioning besides Latrell Spreewell

[@chasecrosby6938]

Tim Duncan is the best PF to ever play.

[@hoaxnineteen]

Bruce Bowen GOAT

[@Gboi8]

Not even a real PF tho lol.

[@nickjcirillo]

@@Gboi8why

[@sk2790]

How's he not a real pf lmao.. he's the definition of a pf

[@ForceOfWill100]

@@sk2790 Maybe because he spent 63% of his career playing center? He played in the league for 19 years, only 6 of them as a PF

[@danzalisnock9128]

"Nah nah, it IS" 😂

[@genovaz]

Even KG has come out and said Duncan was a monster.

[@darrellbarnes2096]

TD to Garnett: Almost, ooh!😂

[@drewppydrew9888]

All of the greats give each other props tho he TD said every time he played kg it was a problem

[@mroctober3583]

KG never came out n said Duncan is better bc its not true...pops system played a big role. 1v1 KG beat Timmy

[@darrellbarnes2096]

@@mroctober3583 🤡

[@genovaz]

@@mroctober3583 he's literally on the record on video talking about how hard it was to keep up with Timmy when they played. You can go look it up.

[@Trackerstatus]

Tim was the quietest killer on the court. You'd be thinking "Damn, Tim, do another move or some shit, it's getting boring" then you see his stat line be: 24 pts, 11 Rebounds, 5 assists. "When did he get that?!"

[@swerve3271]

& like 2-3 blocks while playing excellent defense

[@domk2993]

Facts!! He almost has a modern era NBA twin…. Kawhi MF Leonard. And it’s funny that they played on the same team. Lol

[@larrycrawford1978]

Duncan is so much better than Garnett much better scorer more career block shots. This ridiculous Duncan way better

[@flockaveli15]

@@swerve3271 this was the most underrated part of Timmy. Most of it is because he was pretty slow especially as he got older but dude more than held his own against the best defensively.

[@26michaeluk]

That's what I just posted. People considered him boring even though he always put up amazing stats.

[@xctkillaprodigyx2586]

Pat Bev said it better than I could have ever said it. He shined over multiple hall of famers on his same team.

[@Knightfall333]

As a ROOKIE he came in and took the reigns from prime David Robinson. You know how good you have to be to do that? GOAT level good

[@legenddaryl537]

@@Knightfall333 its not prime robinson.. but its true he did become the best player in spurs when he came there

[@itsjustarnold]

Even KG would say Tim Duncan is the best

[@GiantsHunt]

Duncan is a clanger. He barely ever shot .500 and his shot selection was highly conservative. Almost all of his value was on defense.

[@robertkent6900]

@@GiantsHunt and he was still better than KG that’s crazy huh.

[@GiantsHunt]

@@robertkent6900 no, in head to head matchups they were pretty much dead even. Look it up on Land of Basketball. This is all mostly when KG was on the Timberwolves, who would have been the worst team in the league without him. Without Duncan the Spurs could have made the playoffs most years.

[@robertkent6900]

@@GiantsHunt literally no one ever outside of Rone has KG above Duncan. And what does “pretty much dead even” mean?

[@GiantsHunt]

@@robertkent6900 m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/np-sd2SrrLN_mNU&pp=ygUWR2FybmV0dCB2cyBkdW5jYW4gMjAwMw%3D%3D KG at his peak led a completely mediocre team to the best record in the west and won MVP, 24.2-13.9-5.0-1.5-2.2 One of the best and most complete seasons of all time. Duncan has never come close to that production and he cannot carry a team like that. This is KG beating Duncan AND Robinson. Do not try to tell me if you swap Duncan in for KG that that team would even make the playoffs. They would have sucked.

[@LazyJAB]

The Duncan disrespect gotta stop 😂

[@tupacalypse88]

putting him 2nd ain't disrespect 😁

[@LazyJAB]

@@tupacalypse88 Behind KG, yes it definitely is lol and KG would probably say it too

[@tupacalypse88]

@@LazyJAB why is it disrespect?

[@readabook5823]

@@tupacalypse88 Duncan beat a prime shaq and Kobe with no all stars on his team. He’s the best 4 period.

[@tupacalypse88]

@@readabook5823 Im not disagreeing with your opinion but the idea that to think I know better to the point that to think otherwise is disrespectful to me is way more friggin disrespectful.

[@willseest3732]

Dawg at the end of the day, Tim Duncan knew how to lead the squad to championship. He was the heart and soul of those 5 championship teams in San Antonio. The team goes as Timmy goes

[@TyBrezzy11]

your dumb KG on the spurs has 5 rings

[@yongui350]

Yeah like when he went to the Olympics

[@allengreene9954]

@@yongui350. That team was honestly garbage. Larry Brown giving Shawn Marion and Richard Jefferson mins over Young LeBron, D-Wade, Melo, Lamar Odom and Amare🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿

[@nbassasin8092]

put tim duncan on any team ever and that team benefits while not undermining other exsting starpower on it. Something that can be said about only few players ever. Even Jordan/Lebron cant give you that. That man filled all the gaps you needed him to fill to make a f22ing fortress of a team

[@GWhoShotYa]

For 18 years. I could Argue KG would of done the same thing if he was surrounded by nearly as much talent as Timmy had around him at every moment of his career , KG only had a level of talent that was close to his for a few years at the end of his prime years. You could really say past his prime years when he got traded to the Celtics. He was at the back end of his prime when that trade happened

[@TheReaL_DFran]

From a Lakers fan who was frustrated by Tim Duncan on multiple occasions, Pat is 💯 percent correct. It IS Tim Duncan, end of discussion.

[@Cousincush]

This is real.. cause yall lakers use to get under my skin growing up lol s/o shaq Kobe f fisher tho 🤣

[@TheReaL_DFran]

@@Cousincush I will Never forget that moment, watching it live. That 0.04 seconds was one of the most amazing things I have ever seen. I'm sure you see it differently but still, didn't see it coming at all.

[@fergalosanchez7675]

Tim Duncan is probably the most underrated players of all time.

[@ForceOfWill100]

He's universally regarded as the GOAT of a position he didn't even spend the majority of his career playing. I think he's rated just fine lmao

[@konkola3295]

Casual take

[@shezadm6300]

Yes coz his game doesn't have so much flare and he is a quite person... But yeah is easily top 10 and arguably top 5 in NBA history in terms of purely basketball achievement! By the way, the videos on the playlist on my channel might interest some people!

[@DissAeon]

That would be Manu ginobili

[@DineroA1]

People use the word underrated to loosely its starting to lose meaning

[@Nyjeezy]

This dude is WILD. Tim Duncan is a top 5-10 player of all time.

[@therealjlil]

so is KG

[@dothog1401]

​@@therealjlil no he's not

[@Ijbvfknnn]

@@therealjlilthere’s no way

[@christianco905]

Naah. He is not in Tim Duncan's league.

[@Blyter7]

@@therealjlil LMAOOOO

[@RivAcademy]

There was no system until tim duncan arrived lmaooo

[@ImCJStyles]

Not true spurs were a championship team Before Duncan got there spurs got lucky they got Tim they had a bad year lots of injuries got lucky w the number 1 pick they were a championship caliber team the year before

[@Yongui-pi3fc]

62-20 with David Robinson lol

[@LynxStarAuto]

There was definitely a system before Timmy. The Spurs are one of the elite organizations of the league in that regard.

[@trueytone2021]

Exactly

[@samcremin1486]

This shit makes no sense, Tim Duncan wasn’t out there designing the spurs ball movement or telling everyone where to be on defence, he was honestly an average iq player without great game sense cause he started basketball late in life. He was the system in that he was the best player but you can say that for any superstar and even more-so for KG on the Wolves because he was out there doing everything.

[@billyteindl4366]

Absolutely hate when people talk about players being great in a system. The reason the system was great was because Duncan was there

[@NoBiasAllBoxing]

He was great because of the system

[@TheTaekwon3]

Many great players go to bad systems and never win, it's the system that put them over the top

[@rex6830]

@@NoBiasAllBoxingok so in 03 when Robinson was at the tail end of his career Greg popovich was in his first few years as a head coach Parker and ginoblili where both in Their first few seasons Duncan benefited from the system and that’s why he won? That is ridiculous

[@ItsjuuhsRome]

@@NoBiasAllBoxingsame “system” they running now right. Systems doing them wonders right now. Siiike!!! , that system died the moment Tim left. Its like having the Wifi Modem(Spurs System) without Wifi(Tim Ducan)😂

[@quyenluu7883]

Tom Brady is a prime example of this.

[@ForceOfWill100]

My answer is also Kevin Garnett, but for a different reason: Tim Duncan played 63% of his career at the center position, and only played 6 of his 19 years in the NBA with PF being his primary position. No shade to Timmy, I do have him higher than KG all time, but if we're ranking by position that's just facts.

[@MOCvision]

He forgets that Tim Duncan won a championship while Parker was not all-star ready and manu was a rookie, drob was past his prime and coach pop relied on tim duncan majority of the time in 2002-03 season. Not only that but Tim Duncan was compatible with his coaches and teammates without stirring any drama or outbursts. KG would still rings because he was that guy with Pop but not 5 like Duncan.

[@hardwoodthought1213]

Perfect take. KG was more versatile, but what Duncan did well (inside scoring and defence) is what propels teams to win. It’s far easier to win and build around Duncan, hence why he could win as the clear guy (03) or take a back seat scoring wise and dominate on D like KG did in 08. KG couldn’t do the former, hence why the only times he even won playoff series it was when he had 2 other 20+ PPG scorers, Duncan won in 03 averaging more than what his 2nd and 3rd options averaged combined

[@dkmrap1]

Tim Duncan had drama, it just doesn't get out for certain guys. His dull image is a facade.

[@hardwoodthought1213]

@@dkmrap1 Feel free to outline it

[@zakjones1277]

& that before Tim Duncan got there Slurs sucked

[@2phonebabykeem913]

@@hardwoodthought1213 I don’t know the guy obviously, but he seemed to have a very quiet and reserved nature, much like kawaii. I think he had a bad coaching stint with the spurs(mostly cause they sucked) and didn’t really have a media presence in or out the league so if that constitutes drama then that’s it ig🤷‍♂️ I’m starting to believe people just fill in the blanks about players like kawaii and Duncan cause they don’t speak about themselves much. like being “dull” in front of countless cameras must be an act, or they don’t speak much cause they think they’re better than everyone(one I’ve actually heard about kawaii). I wonder what he’ll make up tbh💀

[@phillyrockz]

People really confuse somebody being their favourite with them being the best..

[@goldmo2427]

Kg has a argument y’all talk without actual facts all you see is who has more rings lol kg and Duncan have a comparable career statically I have Duncan above but people make it like Duncan is underrated one when everyone rides him and they also don’t realize how good manu was and kg they be like ohh he’s top 30 ever while Duncan is top 5 lol this is literally Dumb bunch of stats will show how impactful kg was and if you watch he’s only dude who lead his team in everything Duncan didn’t or dirk or anyone but Lebron and jokic

[@rex6830]

@@goldmo2427yeah I don’t think kg is only top 30 I reckon he is in that 12 to 20 range but I have Duncan ranked in the top 7 because his scoring when needed was elite his defensive ability all the way to the end of his career was phenomenal he could take a backseat when asked he could take over games by himself which he demonstrated with an below average spurs roster in 03 winning the chip and mvp he has some of the best defensive winshares of all time so that is why I rank him that high

[@rex6830]

@@goldmo2427kg also takes less efficient off the dribble looks and whilst he has a better off the dribble game I look at it from the persepective where a value volume and efficiency so I favour Duncan offensive and defensively whilst kg is more versatile I believe Duncan is a better interior presence so it’s close but i favour Duncan because rim protection is more valuable it’s close but ultimately Duncan is the better player and had the better resume

[@lockiet7227]

People can't tell the difference between being PART OF A SYSTEM vs being THE SYSTEM. Duncan WAS the system

[@jayscarz1157]

Yes yes yes yes......brilliant comment

[@dogeknows6086]

You know you’re wrong when your main argument is “what if”

[@robhernandez5520]

Not necessarily because there's plenty of situations where amazing players were stuck on garbage teams and never got any help when they were clearly better than other players who played for better organizations that put them in a better position to win

[@kamilmusalat]

@@robhernandez5520exactly and Minnesota was pretty shit, Garnett was the only reason they could make the playoffs

[@VVVY777]

@@robhernandez5520 Jordan was drafted into a team of cokeheads. Jason Kidd took the worst team in the league to the Finals twice after being traded there. Garnett just isn't as impactful to winning as his stats may suggest. Needed a Superteam to compete. Does not actually elevate teammates and teams.

[@ron2037]

@@VVVY777 what did jordan achieve on the bulls when he was the only star?

[@jogendron6320]

Ron MJ was the only star in 1991. MJ was the only star in 1998.

[@Fats620]

Kevin McHale gets overlooked by the media because he played alongside Bird. Had he been on a team where he was the primary focus we'd having a different discussion. His footwork in the post was second to only the Dream

[@CorePathway]

Nah, NOBODY had the low post moves like McHale. But Duncan had way way way better D and better range.

[@stat8173]

Lol Tim Duncan WAS the Spurs system. He made Pop, not the other way around.

[@trunellsaltersr.7810]

Duncan didn't make Pop pop arguably the greatest coach ever but Duncan was that dude for the Spurs

[@erichvonmanstein6876]

@@trunellsaltersr.7810 no, hes not "arguably the greatest coach ever" hes top 5

[@davidfebreeze428]

🤦‍♂️

[@erichvonmanstein6876]

@@davidfebreeze428 whats wrong with your face?

[@dmackno3492]

@@erichvonmanstein6876 he ain’t the greatest coach that why he made that face

[@TeranIcer]

Duncan: I made the playoffs EVERY season of my career. Countless NBA players: ....

[@JOHoms98]

with +50 wins every fucking time

[@willjamesjr]

Duncan also walked onto the league with another hall of famer and a roster of quality vets already on the team in Tim's rookie year!! KG had the misfortune of being drafted by a terrible team and awful owner. Tim was the day 1 sidekick of David Robinson and coached by a GOAT coach who would continue to bring more top talent to San Antonio. If KG had that, he would have had the same success

[@TeranIcer]

@@willjamesjr Yeah, KG ran to Boston to get away from Duncan. U r right about KG & that bad owner for sure. Duncan was certainly fortunate to have an outstanding coach & great franchise structure. However, we know that Duncan was the lynchpin of the Spurs sustained excellence. Look what happened after he retired.

[@JohnRome-xn7hx]

Of course being drafted by a 50+ wins team that became a lottery team in the season when Robinson got injured.

[@soslime6082]

@@TeranIcerkg did not run to boston bc of tim he got traded to run frm minnesota booty ass franchise😂💯

[@NerdAthlete]

Tim's resume should be in the GOAT conversation and not just greatest power forward of all time.

[@stevejeanty1658]

Tim Duncan is the greatest PF of all time.

[@colton6867]

"System" is one of those buzzwords people throw around. People used to say the same shit about Tom Brady when he was with Belichek. They used to say it all the time about Kawhi Leonard as well, "well put him on any other team and he'd be Trevor Ariza", then he goes to Toronto and puts up career highs and has one of the best playoff runs in recent memory en route to a championship.

[@itzchaos2181]

I mean I still say it about Tom Brady and hes been proving it. But the Kawhi thing is straight facts

[@tariqwuf777]

​@@itzchaos2181 Brady had a super team in Tampa Bay

[@robertthomas3201]

Facts I remember that kawhi slander

[@erichvonmanstein6876]

@@tariqwuf777 BWAHHHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA stop. ANY thing fools have to hate on about Brady at this point in time is just that.........hate. just stop kid.

[@TJMoyo]

​@@itzchaos2181 that's just mad hate. He won super bowls with Deion Branch. Broke records with Randy Moss when he finally had a receiver. You know nothing about football if you still have this dumb take. Tired of idiots saying stupid stuff like this. It's like you guys think in the moment like a goldfish

[@jackmurray5038]

Tim was the whole system without Tim they ain’t winning shit

[@kad9947]

I mean, I see KG winning 3 chips with Duncan type of support.

[@scottshomo2205]

​@@kad9947 Garnett was skinny and couldn't guard the post like Duncan what are y'all smoking these days definitely more then reefer

[@GoldenBoy-sq6yl]

​@@kad9947 u put charles on those bulls teams and he might win a chip or 2

[@carimurel9348]

​@@kad9947 I doubt it

[@Fent-]

@@RepeatAfterMe_ASMR KG would’ve 3 peated with Boston if he didn’t tear his knee out in 2009 though. He was never the same after that.

[@franks.1742]

Kinda hard to answer this because both players, could essentially been at the top of either PF or C. I feel the classification of them being PF is more about not having to compare them directly with other centers. If you keep them in PF then we are basically having a short list which then it can narrowed down to championships, MVPs, etc. Which basically means Barkley, Malone, Duncan and Garnett. However if we do a Who’s the best front court player, then the list just balloons in size and it’s not as clear cut. Or if we put them at Center, there’s definitely more debate since there’s more MVPs, and champions. I think either of the can definitely be in the conversation for either PF or C. The difference to me, however, is that Charles Barkley and Karl Malone, did spend more time at PF. Their size and skill sets resemble more of what a traditional power forward does. Statistically the edge that Duncan and Garnett have has a lot to do with their size and wingspan. To me putting them in just PF category just takes away from what Karl and Charles did with less size.

[@OREvilleRed]

KG taught kids how to care when you're losing. It ain't easy, losing, but it happens.

[@dohpe-]

It's because he had ALOT of experience with losing. Especially when playing against Duncan and Dirk.

[@dsbeats5657]

Yeah, it ain’t easy losing, but it’s a lot harder winning and that’s all what Tim Duncan did he was the reason the Spurs won. He was a reason they were a dynasty. He was the reason they could have a continued success because he was unselfish and just a flat out winner.

[@jamiemaldonado4833]

Tim Duncan is the best Power Forward ever!!

[@terrio00]

Hakeem is bro

[@showstopper3224]

@@terrio00 Hakeem is a center

[@cameronjohnson9361]

@@showstopper3224so is Duncan

[@cameronjohnson9361]

@@showstopper3224they both started their nba careers as pfs though

[@ThirdBrainLives]

The Mailman.

[@GreenlightBze]

Tim was the system because he took less money , he was damn near quiet and worked hard with no big ego.

[@erraticentertainment]

Giannis better

[@GreenlightBze]

@@erraticentertainment no he's not . His leadership is top tier

[@BigFacts31]

I picked KG too bro! But I don’t argue when people say Timmy

[@JoshHart316]

"It's only one answer."- 👏 Pat 🎯

[@Mynameisyoutub]

The fact that he didn’t say Duncan is actually insane .

[@sturn001]

There is no Popovich system, the system was Tim Duncan's greatness.

[@TheNyion912]

😂

[@jamiegaskins3687]

People aren’t ready for this conversation

[@Fent-]

After Duncan retired they won 67 games and were blowing the doors off the best team of all time until Kawhi got hurt. Saying there’s no popovich system is grossly disrespectful.

[@carlosrob6494]

Very disrespectful

[@markburn4943]

Facts but let the young non player tell it Tim was only good because of the coach smh

[@fenway567]

Being great on a team with other greats with you. I love hearing perspectives from nba players

[@PaulVisionLee]

This dude really said I guess you could throw Tim in there 😂wtf

[@jamesmiller5331]

Tim Duncan should get all the credit in San Antonio. They haven't done shit without him.

[@marcoszuniga184]

He does get it here. It’s the rest of the country that don’t give it.

[@OnTh3Mov3]

What was their record the year after Timmy retired then??

[@davidokutinyang946]

​@@OnTh3Mov3 They went to the Conference Finals! They would've won it too if Zaza Pachulia didn't take out Kawhi...

[@OnTh3Mov3]

@@davidokutinyang946 Exactly! Spurs finally start rebuilding after 20 years of absolute team dominance and y’all forget Pops the greatest coach of all time. Hell that 2014 Spurs squad could beat any of those Spurs championship teams and it wasn’t cuz Timmy was carrying

[@davidokutinyang946]

@@OnTh3Mov3 Lol I'm not saying otherwise

[@jrh7741]

Tim Duncan won titles in three different decades. He was allstar and 3-4th in MVP voting HIS ROOKIE YEAR !

[@roundtable3501]

Titles are a team accomplishment. And MVP is a subjective award voted on by media people who have no idea what they’re talking about. Why use those things to rank players?

[@bummingcigs]

@@roundtable3501lmfao then what else do u wanna use? he had a quadruple double...when was the last time someone did that

[@marquis9074]

@@bummingcigsquad double in pivotal game 6 of the f-ing finals too…

[@bummingcigs]

@@marquis9074 growing up a spurs fan, i always thought it was normal to have a dominant figure like tim on a team...how blessed we were...

[@Frosty1026]

@@roundtable3501cause they’re still accomplishments maybe why hang your degree on the wall teachers taught you all you know and sometimes they barely know the subject why rank your own degree? Like dummy statement those things still matter at the end of the day are they the end all be all no of course not but they help the discussion.

[@mortal9994]

I really like the point pat bev made cause like i can be the best player at a park where its just dads after work or kids but if im the best player at the park when i have other highschool varsity hoopers on the court thats a lot more impressive

[@rubenvelasquez2668]

Garnet would never let pop talk to him that way. Especially publicly.

[@bullymaguire6773]

When an argument is built around an "if"; you just know it's stupid.

[@markied2873]

Facts

[@justsayin669]

*@Breakfast Program* But how else would you attempt to bridge the gap between 2 players' different situations when making a comparison? You sort of have to use what ifs in order to compare 2 players, especially if one side of the argument is trying to die on a hill that a player is better simply because they had more team success.

[@jnmartin1992]

Eh KG was on a lot of shit teams when he was in his prime. Never had players around him close to that

[@bullymaguire6773]

​@@justsayin669 Use the available resources out there. "If Tim Duncan had Kyrie's handles he'd be unstoppable" See how stupid it is? That kind of argument proves and accomplishes nothing.

[@onebigadvocado6376]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@1TrofaeLapearl]

“No no it is” 😂😂😂💯💯💯

[@S2k_GRsti]

I put Tim Duncan right under Jordan. The two best to ever lace up.

[@casperzwiep7759]

Tim Duncan was more of a center than he was a pf.

[@goodymob9638]

EXACTLY

[@donaldpratt2296]

Tim Duncan truthers always classify him as a PF because his argument at that position is pretty strong. They don’t want to have to argue against people like Shaq, Wilt, and Kareem.

[@ervinbrunson3585]

100% right. Any seven footer playing the four should never be considered great.

[@drethoughts]

Tim Duncan is the man. I respect his game so much

[@mvp_pr1255]

Timmy! 5 chips, 3 FMVP, 2 MVP, 15 All star, 15 all nba, 15 all defensive and I still wonder why he didn’t win a DPOY

[@jlui21]

-- PFs, Duncan and KG are incredible players. Talent wise, equal. But ducan's advantage? humble and great coach. Great players can win one championship, but multiple chips require a whole team. ***Random: Kobe had a way better career than Tmac but like KG, I'd gamble and take TMAC over Kobe.

[@Tb-gz4qt]

Lets be honest, talent wise KG is clearly above timmy.@@jlui21

[@codg3484]

Ben Wallace always won DPOYs during Timmy’s prime

[@withalittlehelpfrom3]

@@jlui21 Duncan also stayed in school all 4 years, so he came to the league as a veteran first pick. Kobe and KG and Giannis had to develop their games in the league-Timmy (and for that matter Shaq) pretty much knew who he was because he'd taken time to figure it out in school, while graduating with honors!

[@Cousincush]

@@jlui21 ginobili > tmac

[@chrissylee325]

KG is my all time favorite player! Love him, his energy, and he's also funny as hell! 😊❤

[@dime6941]

That little kid was in Grade school when The spurs were 🔥

[@eternalblessing4984]

It's such a common misconception that Tim Duncan was a system player when he very clearly WAS the system. He could've averaged bigger numbers if the Spurs didn't build that system around him to win.

[@younglove3362]

And Garnett would have flourished more if he was in Pops system, possibly got more rings.

[@UrbanTherapyRadio]

Pat Bev knocked that out the park, be great with other greats on the team. And yes I agree with everyone else, Dude is too young to see Tim Duncan come in his rookie year, busting veterans asses...He came in Great!!!

[@TheIcemanthomas]

@@younglove3362 and? So could a lot of great bigs. That doesn’t take away from how great a talent Duncan is? U saw what Kg was on bad to average Minnesota teams. U put Duncan on some of those bad teams and I think u get the same results. Duncan would put up monster numbers like Kg did. I hate that people tend to leave that part out as if Timmy’s entire game was predicated on the system.. the system didn’t play defense or score buckets. Duncan did.. it’s all about skill and production. A great player will be great no matter where they are.. the system just enhances what is already there. So u can use the system as a way to downgrade Duncan.

[@albertkenmata3875]

​@@younglove3362TD would 3peat on KG's celtics squad.

[@roundtable3501]

@@TheIcemanthomas Those Minnesota teams were not “bad to average.” They were some of the worst teams ever. Their net rating without KG was absolutely horrible. Just to illustrate. 2003 and 2004 were KG’s peak years on the wolves. They had a +7.9 net rating with KG on and a -14.3 net rating with KG off. That means they played at a 62-20 win pace with KG on and a 9-73 win pace with KG off. Lol.

[@RyTheBasketballGuy]

“Being the great on a team with other greats on the team” quote of the month

[@tee9753]

Misquote 😂

[@dnice2000]

I appreciate the love for KG

[@deerosay1113]

Timmy!😂😂 ...loved that commercial

[@thesniper321]

Tim Duncan fucking CREATED the pop system give the man his credit

[@jacquep2363]

Chill

[@andrewmiller4116]

Timmy literally created that system

[@BennyNegroFromQueens]

Cap

[@lalremruatpuiarenthlei4665]

He is the SYSTEM

[@younglove3362]

PoP created the system. Pop is the reason the Spurs played boring and why Tim was (so called) boring to watch. STOP ✋️

[@audrikcarter6642]

@@younglove3362but those 2014 spurs were the most beautiful unselfish basketball team ever

[@scottshomo2205]

​@@younglove3362 your completely dumb how bad are the Spurs now pops system sucks now Duncan made the guy stop being salty

[@zb2747]

Tim is the standard/baseline for power forward

[@joshuadevaughn8613]

To be able to stay on a team and keep a dynasty together is something. Especially for so long. You don’t see a lot of teams stuck together and dominate.

[@MrBojangles2020]

i never really like Timmy but we all knew the answer to that question as soon as he asked it

[@TrippyMoak]

The system Tim was in from 97-05: Post up Timmy and gtho the way

[@zennihilator3724]

Yeah, but the Spurs were still dominant and won championships from 2005 to 2017 with Duncan's role getting gradually reduced every couple of years. Even in 2007, the offensive system at that point was at least equally about Parker and Ginobili (+ shooters) than it was about Duncan. Post 2012, Duncan was a role player on offense, but the Spurs still won titles with an elite offense. So this argument 'Duncan was the system' was only true for a certain period of the Spurs overall dominance, not the entire period.

[@ry_an.]

@@zennihilator3724 spurs won the chip in 2003 bro

[@zennihilator3724]

@@ry_an. How is that dismissing anything i said? I said Duncan was largely the system up until 2005, but after that the Spurs were running a lot of their offense through Parker and Ginobili. My point was that Pop and the Spurs managed to be elite and won chips even when Duncan was no longer the system, thus, suggesting Duncan being the system was the reason for their success is only true until about 2005, but after that Pop showed his coaching skill and adapted the team around other players... And these players were very good outside of Duncan, make no mistake. Ginobili and Parker were all-star caliber, the rest of the squad was usually filled with very experienced players that knew how play winning basketball... Meanwhile, Garnett was stuck on one of the worst franchises in the league from 1996-2007. The rare time he got some help (in the form of 34-year old Sam Cassell), he lead the Wolves to 58 wins and 1st seed.

[@bluv5185]

@@zennihilator3724 exactly I 100 percent agree with you. They keep saying tim was the system for all those championships and that just wasn’t the case. Had he Parker, ginobli, kawhi, David Robinson. Sean Elliott. Lots of great players along with great role players like, Stephen Jackson, Brent Barry, Bruce Bowen, Boris Diaw as well. What did KG have? Sam Cassell and sprewell who were both past their primes..

[@Mugen026]

To add to this: when Tim stopped becoming THE system, it took another 7 years before they won a championship again. It was only until the perfect storm of a playoff run in 2014 where they became the beautiful team. Yet Tim was still the anchor of it, especially on the defensive end.

[@daydreamcon6343]

Tim Duncan WAS the system. They don’t win a single ring without him

[@user-zr9og2ml4k]

KG was my favorite player growing up but Duncan is at the the Table

[@SomeLoser-]

Tim Duncan is probably one of the most consistent scorers and defenders of all time. From the age of 21 to 39 he was a DPOY candidate. He could’ve very well had the most DPOYs of all time, he was also an elite scorer and even at 39 he was giving you 9/7/3 with 1 block a game with insane defense on limited touches and 25 mpg. He was definitely better than KG

[@yingghit97]

As a diehard Spurs fan the city of San Antonio was and still is very lucky to have him be with that organization for 19 straight seasons

[@saiken811]

To quote from Harden, not that TD would care, but after Timmy hearing the dude's comment, "I am the system!"

[@theofficialgreenkane9645]

10. Chris Webber 9. Dennis Rodman 8. Chris Bosh 7. Anthony Davis 6. Kevin McHale 5. Charles Barkley 4. Karl Malone 3. Dirk Nowitzki 2. Kevin Garnett 1. Tim Duncan

[@YoxxSHIxx]

Tim sacrificed numbers and money for the team.

[@roundtable3501]

And KG sacrificed being on a competent franchise for loyalty to his team and all of the fans in Minnesota.

[@YoxxSHIxx]

@@roundtable3501 and then kg went to Boston and joined a super team with 4 Allstars in Boston for the rest of his career. Tim stayed on the same team his whole career. Manu ginobli and Tony Parker where both 2nd round picks and they came right at the end of the admirals career. Tim stayed during the highs and lows.

[@YoxxSHIxx]

@@roundtable3501 kg also played with wally Serbian, latreell sprewell, and Sam Cassell, they just couldn't beat the spurs, or the lakers.

[@YoxxSHIxx]

@@roundtable3501 Tim could of went to any team and dominates stat wise, he was ungaurdable even with double teams.

[@roundtable3501]

@@YoxxSHIxx And if you look at the actual on/off data, it corroborates my point. In 2003 and 2004 the wolves played at a 9-73 pace without KG on the court and a 62-20 with him on. Those Minnesota teams were some of the worst ever.

[@zhuber]

It's SO FUNNY that people criticize Duncan for having Pop, when Pop was nothing before Duncan. Look up the history, Pop had basically no coaching experience and hired himself as the Spurs head coach so they could tank, they drafted Duncan the next year and the team literally ascended to greatness immediately. There is no Pop without Duncan, even Pop himself admits this in interviews.

[@MrJSheppy16]

Dude. Any answer other than TD is nuts.

[@Papa_Bexar210]

Thank you Pat. There’s no debate on this. Timmy was the system.

[@stephenbishop3004]

KG was and is still my favorite PF

[@SagaTheFunniest]

Still not better than Duncan

[@Rodrickfinley2474]

No title but I like Rasheed wallace..str8 DOG!!!😎

[@eib3137]

One of my favorites watching him helped me add elements to my game that allowed me to play positions 1-4 in school.

[@zalitosway8419]

He was scary before the injury after… he was still good asf but timberwolves kg was serious.

[@VETERANMASTER]

The question wasn’t favorite was it.

[@studiouswadoo5027]

If Tim Duncan was featured more on ESPN or sports center some people might have him the GOAT

[@erraticentertainment]

That’s how u know media influences who the GOATS are when it’s really GIANNIS

[@tristanp5605]

@@erraticentertainment😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@donsolos]

Kareem has a much better claim to GOAT then Tim duncan does. Besides wilt is the real GOAT

[@PropaneIsLife]

Most underrated player in sports history

[@jerrelscott418]

Literally the Brady & Bill of basketball 😂

[@VeinySausage]

The 4 the most under appreciated position on the court…nobody gives love to the all time PFs when it comes to top 10 all time players

[@nicky0014]

Dirk should certainly be in the conversation

[@kg21bestpf94]

LoL no

[@pm69669]

@@kg21bestpf94 fym dirk had better stats, longevity, and won a ring without 2 other stars he’s easily better then kg get off his meat 1. Duncan 2. Dirk/Malone 3. Kg/chuck

[@TheSportsCore]

@@pm69669 I think you are forgetting about half of the game which is defense, Garnett was always an elite 2-way player, Dirk was only one way there's no way Dirk is over KG. In his prime KG was a complete player not just a shooter like Dirk. Elvin Hayes was also a lot better. Duncan Garnett Hayes

[@pm69669]

@@TheSportsCore by that logic wade was better then Kobe because his prime was higher

[@TheSportsCore]

@@pm69669 But Wade was better, Kobe was greater because of his achievements but during their primes I'm taking Wade over Kobe anytime.

[@leechrec]

If TD had the cast of Garnett early in his career, he'd have less titles and better stats. It's crazy though that TD averaged less points, rebounds, steals, assists, and shooting percentage than Barkley.

[@KTF0]

Tim Duncan shaped the face of the Spurs. Poppovich became Poppovich because of Duncan. I don't care what superstar you substitute him with. Duncan never threw Poppovich under the bus and gave him the clout.

[@marcuscastillo6546]

Tim Duncan is simply the Best Power forward ever!! Hands down!

[@mistaslimpickens]

He didn't ask you who do you love... he asked you who is the best

[@jacobvaught9891]

What’s the gentleman name that’s on the podcast of Pat Bev? I really like the way. Kari yourself straight up. Dude you can tell.

[@MartinMottalebi]

I’m a KG guy and I approve this message

[@deliliankramo7520]

Tim was the system bruh! Even with the Admiral himself on the court. People forget how Timmy was cause he didn’t make noise he is just a shy timid dude. But on the court… give you the business. Ask Garnett himself he’ll tell you

[@jojetparedes4024]

yup. KG hated Duncan in a sense that he could not intimidate him. It was the other way around. Ask Joe Crawford.

[@dravenmlm4185]

Yep KG knew it was over when Tim would say "nice try" "almost" and "got you" lol

[@aaryasharma4940]

​@@dravenmlm4185 yeah the toughest players are the ones that you can't intimidate or get in their head and Tim was exactly that kind of player

[@TestTest-ei4gi]

Kevin Garnetts intensity was unrivaled. My favorite 4 man ever

[@alphathelema7268]

"Favorite" is not the same as best. KG fell apart rather quickly after team hopping. Sad to see.

[@ericmausbach1808]

KG didn't team hop....he was traded to BOS because MIN didn't want to pay him. He won a championship with the Celtics. Then he was traded to the Nets when he was older (he was probably 36 or 37 at that point) because the Celtics were rebuilding...the Celtics got Tatum and Jaylen Brown in return (via the draft).Then he finished his career in MIN...he got traded there too. Never team hopped.

[@TestTest-ei4gi]

@@ericmausbach1808 you’re downplaying at this point. What KG was to the Celtics was special. He has even said that he’ll retire as a Celtic. He bleeds green. He brought something to garden that no one brought in 20 years.

[@markied2873]

Fake tough though

[@twillo90]

Intensity does not make him better than the 🐐 aka Tim Duncan 😂

[@Kimoka28]

I dislike the "what if" argument, it doesn't matter. Tim still is the better PF due to what he accomplished.

[@assalt18]

That is the realest way to put it. Being the greatest on a team with other greats says alot about you. Like Kobe on the redeem team in 2008 you got Melo Wade LeBron and others but Kobe stood out head and shoulders above as the best player and leader for that team.

[@mohkamaltaha]

You can tell that other guy never watched TD a day in his life, he's absolutely clueless.

[@Itsnowthetime]

Tim Duncan was a beast at Wake Forest! Put some respect on that man. They didn’t win anything until Tim signed that contract in 99

[@SportsAndNews]

Can’t use popovich system argument if he gave popovich his first title lol.

[@peetoooooo8794]

Duncan is the greatest PF. KG is the best PF. There's a difference. Duncan was the pefection of what a PF was and should be. KG, on the other hand, was the first of his kind and defined what big men, not just power forwards, could be. Giannis, Jokic, Davis, etc are the culmination of what KG started. That's why traditional big men have died out in the NBA and why skilled big men are thriving. Duncan is the position at its perfect definition. KG is the evolution of the position.

[@Xiaolongbaokid16]

If he played for Pop, he’d demand a trade for verbal abuse. Tim is humble asf, and seem to doesn’t care at all.

[@goldmo2427]

Really that’s why Duncan almost left them lol

[@XORGNMN]

See they think you can just plug in players lol. KG ain’t have the right mindset for that lol. And he was coming straight of high school lol. Duncan played in a system in college for 4 years. He was already humbled smh. The disrespect for Duncan is ridiculous

[@Xiaolongbaokid16]

@@goldmo2427 but did he? Lol.

[@XORGNMN]

@@GibranCamus-fh2wk it’s not disrespect if people have Tim Duncan rank higher. He literally checks off all boxes. He just boring. Kg with not attitude wouldn’t be y’all pick I guarantee it

[@n8tethegr8t20]

@@XORGNMN KG revolutionized the 4 position to what it is now,

[@LembeckIsStaying]

You can have your personal favorite and still recognize someone else as the goat. Sir Charles got me into basketball. Love him till this day, but obviously TD is the guy.

[@rashardstallworth9240]

Facts

[@younglove3362]

Remove accolades at Timmy ain't special. People stay crediting players based off team efforts. Garnett was a better pf.

[@alphagames8737]

​@@younglove3362 FACTS

[@Jwaukechon]

@@younglove3362 smoking crack.

[@pm69669]

@@younglove3362 kg is at most the 4th best pf arguably the 5th

[@IanLEAU]

The argument that TD was only good because of Pops system is silly. The reason there was a system in place is because of TD.

[@grynd2012]

Tim Duncan is the greatest pf to ever play the game number 4 in my top 5

[@AnthonySmith-ln5ye]

C Barkley said if Tim wasn’t in Greg Al’s system he would of destroyed the league statically

[@melanatedgod5337]

Tim was the system. That was clear and obvious from day one.

[@TylerRoyMusic]

I’d put Rasheed Wallace in the conversation with these two. If we count championships, Timmy, if we talk individually, they are all very similar.

[@rottenapplelifestyle1683]

Mr. Off the glass! 😏 Iykyk

[@Odinson42]

Who is the clown that said KG? Duncan owned Garnett his whole career. KG was actually scared of Duncan, but not the other way around.

[@Mulugheta88]

Not really the spurs team owned the wolves lol they both avg 19 & 11 against each other in 52 H2H matchups

[@rob19ny]

You ignorant

[@byronspence3093]

U sound crazy... Duncan had the better coach, better team, and better organization hands down.

[@l.a.mobber2511]

Pat said it best man . We talking about a guy being fucking GREAT . In a team full of GREATS thats what makes Tim really stand out

[@robertgriggs4534]

Duncan was an absolute quiet beast. Not a lion, but a tiger. A quiet 25, 11 and 5 in his prime.

[@angelaandluistorres2149]

Another thing that people don't mention is how clutch Duncan was, especially in the playoffs. In a tight game when things seemed to be falling apart, you could always count on TD to settle the team down on both offense and defense. Game 6 or 7, he turned in his best performances.