Is Venom Good or Evil?

[@J_pliskin]

Venom is the prime reason I love MGSV so much

[@luffiewebster]

Venom's the best!

[@Yendhay]

Fr

[@odd-eyes6363]

I don't think Venom would ever do what BB did in Cyprus. BB used the hospital staff and patients as meat shields to cover their escape, completely innocent people, to me that was BB's real heel turn, his moral event horizon. Yeah killing Zadornov and creating a PMC is questionable but using dozens and dozens of innocents as decoy knowing they would die is something John would've never considered before and definitely something Venom wouldn't dare to do being a medic himself

[@duartevicboss]

I Agree with. For Sure, Big Boss became a villain. Assassinations, hostages, kidnappes, human shield, child soldiers!

[@luffiewebster]

This is a super good point to bring up and one I'd never thought of before! BB really is a horrible person for putting all these people in danger costing them all their lives and Venom really could never as a medic himself. BB is such a terrible person!!

[@joaogabrielpecktorneves2715]

I think there is a tape in MGSV saying that it was Zeros plan to ise the hospital as a shield, but it's horrible that BB went along with it

[@alexdeghost2729]

@@joaogabrielpecktorneves2715 I mean Big Boss wasn't in a position to do anything about it. He was unarmed and had to look out for Venom Snake, who was created by Zero and Ocelot.

[@alexdeghost2729]

@@luffiewebster Actually, you're missing the point of his character. The mission Shining Lights is supposed to mirror the Hospital Mission except with Venom on the other side of the trigger this time, showing he had become Skullface's Phantom. Even Venom's speech on how he won't cast their sorrow into the sea and instead plant their roots in him is exactly what Skullface says to the Parasite Patient in the mission, "voices". The plan of Venom Snake and the hospital was created by Ocelot and Zero and Big Boss was in no position to say no because he had just woken up from a coma himself and was stuck in a bad situation. Venom Snake is tragic villain, not Big Boss. Big Boss is the misguided anti-hero.

[@TheGodofnewworld]

To me, Venom is a lot like Grayfox. Someone who was revived and forced to become a weapon. They’re more tragic than evil to me, but they are still villains, because they are consumed by “revenge”

[@noctsickversusTOBETOLD]

With the difference that ishmail was a MEDIC

[@luffiewebster]

I'd never really thought about the parallels between Gray Fox and Venom! It's interesting that they both were turned into weapons and used as tools to forward BB's goals. I wonder what Venom and Gray Fox would have thought of one another...

[@gibonshank3680]

Also, after the chapter 1 of TPP we can see that revenge didn't bring Venom peace.

[@noctsickversusTOBETOLD]

@@luffiewebster they prolly meet each other at some point

[@gonzalocordovamaurer2068]

@@luffiewebster both are the same person

[@tomasbar1101]

If we consider the nuclear disarmament cutscene as cannon, he also got the world rid of all nukes

[@luffiewebster]

I consider the nuclear disarmament cutscene cannon in my heart haha

[@KENSHIROez3260]

To me Venom Snake is like Count Dooku, actually a good guy but have to be evil to accomplish noble intention and get manipulated while doing so

[@luffiewebster]

I'm not familiar with Count Dooku, but he sounds like an interesting character! Does he also have a boss he's manipulated by to further that boss's dream?

[@KENSHIROez3260]

​@@luffiewebster yes and his "Big Boss" is Darth Sidious who is later known as Emperor Palpatine and one of Count Dooku main purpose is to serve as a decoy for him to draw the attention or potential threat away from his plan, just like how Venom Snake is to Big Boss

[@alexdeghost2729]

@@KENSHIROez3260 No, Big Boss isnt the villain. Venom is.

[@duartevicboss]

Big Boss's final speech in MGS PW explains BB and Venom's nature well. They will be good or bad as time demands: "If time demands it, we will be revolutionaries, criminals, terrorists..." But in the end, both became war criminals, even with good intentions to wipe out the Patriots. They carry out kidnappings, hostages, assassinations, stir up wars and conflicts, control nuclear weapons, in addition to which they both sought child soldiers. BB sends Solid Snake to Outer Heaven to die. Anyway, great analysis! I'm a huge fan of the metal gear solid franchise and now I've become a huge fan of your work, Luffie! (I'm from Brazil, so forgive me if my English isn't good)

[@christiangottsacker6932]

Your English is spot on. Very good. MGS Rules!

[@duartevicboss]

@@christiangottsacker6932 Thanks, dude!

[@luffiewebster]

This is so true! BB's speech really does explain their nature, though even though they both did good and bad deeds they both wound up as war criminals... I'm so glad you're enjoying my vids!! That makes me really happy to hear!

[@duartevicboss]

@@luffiewebster You're pretty good!

[@gustavoaugustodecavalcante9288]

Brazil here too🥳

[@the_maddcow]

Ultimately venom made his own decisions willingly, he could have walked away both before and after he learned the truth. He could've woke up and made the choice he was tired of endless fighting.

[@cantsuggestareasonablename9101]

How can venom walk away though ? Venom had no choice but to accept the new version of himself anyways your kind of right considering venom took part in BB plans due to loyalty which makes sense since venom is stated to be the most loyal ,trustworthy and skilled MSF soldier.

[@FoxyhoundEmployee]

Recently started playing MGSV again after seeing vids of of MGSV perfect stealth.

[@luffiewebster]

MGSV perfect stealth vids are wild!! I love watching those too!!

[@yaman.]

5:00 venom snake didnt want to train them, we actually get a glimpse of his sarcastic side which was immediately shutdown by miller

[@jafaral-z1090]

Venom smiles when he hears he's big boss now, the mirror breaking implies he's regained his personality, he's noticeably different from bb especially by the end, things like the e-cigar and his relationship with quiet, he's completely loyal to big boss almost to a cultish degree so i think he'd have chosen to take his current role even if he wasn't comatose

[@vaalentinvs]

A noboddy who became a really loved character. Unfinished game and deleted chapter maybe but I can't deny I loved it and I'm playing it again seven years later.

[@badnewsbronson1563]

From the beginning of mission 46 “There are no facts , only interpretations”- From the man who sold the world. To me venom was a tragic hero. For the same reasons as some of the other comments on this thread. Would’ve loved to see what happen to venom in the interm from the end of TPP to the fall of outer heaven.

[@Donovaneagle2098]

For the whole "would BB let Venom leave?" Thing its important to remember that in MG2SS BB is said to be fine with people betraying him if its for what they believe in. Its what causes his downfall since so many of his inner circle knew he'd be fine with them betraying him to help Snavid, who was tgeir friend.

[@luffiewebster]

Does he say this in his ending speech in MG2? I'll have to rewatch that with that in mind! I get so caught up in him talking about traumatizing war torn areas on purpose to fill his army, so I missed that! Him being okay with people betraying him tracks tho. He doesn't dump Kaz into the ocean on the spot when he betrays him. But I don't think Venom could betray him in a way where Venom walked away from Diamond Dogs or turned Diamond Dogs to oppose BB. Kaz betrays BB, but to push BB's goals forward.

[@Donovaneagle2098]

@@luffiewebster its actually all the people who betray him that say "he's fine with this". And Kaz kinda just forwarded his own goals. BB's evil is always in that he goes along with what others do on his name. He never okayed making Venom, but was never saw how cruel it was to use him. Never said to take the nuke, but let Kaz do it anyway. Never mentioned building ZEKE, but went along with it regardless. In ither words, he's so goal oriented that he loses sight of what goes wrong along the way

[@rachelcobb2209]

Venom had to do the things he did because ocelot would kill him if he didn't

[@ShirakiAkarin]

I love Venom so much, he's no joke one of my favorite characters in all of MGS. Is a sad thing that a lot of people hate him just because he wasn't Jack/Naked Snake, it brings back memories of people hating Raiden for that exact same reason with Solid Snake.

[@wilhelmschmidt6936]

The more I think about it MGSV feels like a reinterpretation of the movie Kagemusha by japanese director Akira Kurosawa. In the movie a thief has to take the role of a deceased warlord in order to safe face for the other clans. It‘s very probable that Kojima knows the movie and I highly recommend it to anyone who hasn’t watched it. A theme in the movie is that the thief is more merciful than the original warlord which reminds me a lot of the way Venom chooses to operate his PMC.

[@the_maddcow]

Kojima always wanted to make a movie

[@luffiewebster]

What!! That's really interesting! I haven't seen that movie before but now I have to watch it!!

[@rockinroller25]

One of my theories is that while Venom fulfilled his role as the image of Big Boss’ legend wonderfully, eventually he was becoming a loose end and he saw sending rookie Snavid into a possible suicide mission to get two birds stoned at once, since BB was never a big fan of having clones of himself who he never consented to he could eliminate Snavid and Venom in once swoop. Unfortunately they both underestimated Snavid’s abilities. In my heart I still love the subtext of Venom being us the player as a final thank you for keeping the legend of Snake (the Metal Gear series) alive for so long as it has. Which also is an inverse of what Raiden was in MGS2, and makes me speculate that Venom was also the prototype of the S3 program that was used to test Raiden for the Big Shell incident.

[@paulf631]

Personally I don't think good and evil Exist in MGS5 I mean yes from our Prospective on mother base and how the Soldiers look up to Venom they see him as a hero that gave them purpose he's also a hero to a Gorgeous sniper as well For given her a A second chance while Miller would just end quiet right there However while we're out on missions as venom We do a lot of questionable things so really I would say venom snake is in the grey area because he will Follow his real commanders true instructions even if they are Terrible

[@luffiewebster]

There's def a lot of grey area in MGSV!

[@noctsickversusTOBETOLD]

You can literally shot minors

[@blakehenry9030]

I would like to think the reason its called the outer heaven uprising was venom rebelling against BB

[@Sjono]

Pretty strange for Venom to be chill whenever he’s face to face with Skull Face, the man who caused him so much misery

[@HiddenSubject17]

5:56 I’m pretty sure that was Huey’s idea

[@venomsnake9755]

I really enjoyed your video! No community is as passionate as the metal gear community, and the fact that you also cover resident evil along with metal gear is an instant sub. Venom is probably the best thing in TPP's story

[@daemonlynn7616]

Much like the entire game, you can think of and feel how you want about Venom and still be right. You can say he’s a Saint and have points to prove it, but on the flip you can also say he’s a Demon and be right. It’s “doublethink” after all. It hurts to think too hard on it since we personally built Diamond Dogs even with the knowledge that it was all doomed to crumble. In the end it seems like it never mattered what we did in the game, it’s merely a facade to push the hidden agenda

[@TheFoxCoops]

I disagree with BB being the one to blame. Major Zero is the one, it was all his idea to turn Venom into a copy of BB.

[@jdogg1177]

Great video all around. Not to poke holes in your understanding, but if you listen to the truth tapes, it's actually Zero that formulates and executes body double plan. BB is reluctant to it at first, and It takes convincing from Ocelot to get BB to go along with it.

[@AnacreonSchoolbagsJr]

Love your vids and it's very hopeful to me as a lifetime fan of the series that people are still doing thoughtful discussion of MGSV almost a decade later. Many people are distracted by its flaws, but I think it's a masterpiece despite the fact that it could have been even better. Thanks for helping to "let the legend come back to life!"

[@A_Salty_Fishe]

This channel's content quality is always top-notch! Remember us when you're huge someday, Boss!

[@Ash-Winchester]

The way I see it, since venom snake is meant to be literally you/the player, I think it dums down to how you see yourself and the actions you carry out. Hideo Kojima defined the phantom pain as "free infiltration" and I think this plays into the morality system. The avatar customization, The ability to choose the lethal/non lethal approach, kill quiet or save quiet, be a ghost who's never seen or go in guns blazing are all determining factors on what kind of player you are which also determines what kind of person venom is in the end. It's up to you to decide what kind of person venom is since he's you. That's just my take, though.

[@jonesjoestar]

To be fair to naked snake, he never had any say in any of his clones' existence or some of the things done on/for his name though he doesn't seem to have too much of a problem with it either i suppose

[@danielbeckman6742]

Venom may have started out good, but by the end, he was deep in villain territory. At the Outer Heaven base, there are no fewer than two areas that are patrolled by guard dogs. The player doesn’t have a non lethal option for getting around these dogs, we are forced to kill them, and with the backtracking required in that game, we have to do it more than once (damn you, Kojima). So there goes Venom’s pro animal stance. We have every reason to believe that Venom was complicit in Operation Intrude N313. That is: kidnap Madnar and his daughter, force Madnar to develop Metal Gear, neutralize the FoxHound agent, non lethally in the case of Gray Fox in N312, and engage in nuclear war with the West. We can assume that sacrificing Venom was not part of the plan because we can assume BB didn’t think any of the clones were up to the task. Also it makes no sense for him sacrifice such a powerful ally if he doesn’t have to, so we have every reason to believe Venom expected to make it thru N313 alive and in one piece. Therefore we can only conclude that he would have launched at least one, probably more, nuclear warheads into the US and other Western nations. Like I said, deep in villain territory.

[@cantsuggestareasonablename9101]

This is why the mg1 game needs a remake to better fit venoms character .

[@04mason]

Venom is literally "Bell" from Call of Duty: Cold War's campaign if you think about it

[@SavedSnake]

My Dad....Good man....my father is a good man.

[@stevid8193]

I feel Venom is culpable for his actions from when the Truth is revealed to him. He takes up the mantle of BB, even if at the end in Op Intrude he only grudgingly keeps going. The misinterpretation of The Boss' Will (For Venom) to 'be a soldier" and "Complete your mission" is juxtaposed against the words of Greyfox "We're not tools of the government, or anyone else". At some point, Venom has to make a choice; and he chooses to be a willing chess piece for BB.

[@The_True_Guy_Who_Asked]

Even if he was responsible for his actions He’d still be good as naked’s ultimate goal was to be THE world superpower to put the largest target possible on his back to force the world to unite and hence bring world peace

[@ziggymar]

Venom's story literally just gets worse and worse the more you learn

[@luffiewebster]

Right??

[@rebelxtreme3871]

Idc What people say about venom like ppl say Hes not a real boss or a snake i think thats complete bs and hes easily my favorite Snake

[@alexdeghost2729]

Venom Snake fully embraced Skullface's legacy and became his phantom. He's a bad guy and Kojima himself confirms this.

[@migmegavite1634]

He goes and kidnapps whoever he needs destroys mechas with his hands at this point hes a god🤣🤣🤣

[@spaghettiking7312]

It's all up to you.

[@LionofDawn]

Making a lot of assumptions about the "Contract" Venom made. There is a lot we don't know about Venom prior to becoming Big Boss's doppelganger. And it's not like it was Big Boss's idea or his plans. It was Zero who decided to brainwash Venom and do the surgery. Big Boss just went along with it because he trusted Venom enough to know that he would make a good "Snake", but you can hear his concern in the "Truth" tapes. If it were up to Big Boss in the first place, i don't think he would come up with such a radical idea, let alone follow through with it. But he used what he got. Venom is NOT a victim of Stockholm syndrome. Big Boss already made it clear that he was the best soldier they had. And you don't build up that kind of skill trough training alone. At some point it is very likely he fought along side Big Boss. Common people don't understand the comradery that builds up between soldiers. It builds a loyalty you can't imagine. You'd live and die for your brothers in arms. Also DD is not a dog, it's a wolf that was trained to be a dog and accepted as one. To parallel the medic who was trained and brainwashed into becoming Big Boss. They make it clear that it's not a huskie, and yet they never bring up the fact that he is a wolf. Just as when Venom asked "who was that guy anyway?" (referring to Big Boss with the bandages on his head) and Ocelot just changes the subject as though Venom never asked.

[@s1e5b9]

I would like to know when the hypnotherapy started to wear off

[@luffiewebster]

Me too!! Obvi sometime before Venom gets the Intrude tape from BB, but I’d love to know the hints Venom started to pick up on and also how he felt about everything! Unless you were talking about Ocelot haha then I think it ended whenever he wanted it to haha

[@s1e5b9]

@luffiewebster with BB taking Venoms life away from him. If you were in his position, would you carry on BBs request or want revenge?

[@Spiderweb566]

Venom snake is my favorite snake

[@luffiewebster]

I love Venom Snake so much too!

[@inquisitorkrieger8171]

I dunno, at the end, I didn't have a problem with any of it. I agreed with big boss's ideals and saw what he did as a necessary evil. War is - arguably- nothing but one big necessary evil. And big boss didn't have tell you anything, yet he did, so that lined up with what we were fighting for and against(basically the patriots nwo)I was like alright, I'll draw the heat if I need to, I prefer the straightforward approach and it lined up with my playstyle in previous games, for example, when I was going up against the sorrow in snake eater, I had a LOT of ghosts coming at me. Did I feel bad about it? Nope. They would have done the same to me. It's also why I'm maxed out in 'demon points' in 5. It's war and big boss needed someone more heavy handed to draw attention, so that's what I became. A stealthy hammer, but a hammer all the same. And it was a nice little farewell from Kojima as well at the end. We were with big boss for a while and thus became him.

[@sleshstudios]

This is nice that someone is talking about mgsv

[@cantsuggestareasonablename9101]

Let alone giving venom snake attention that he deserves.

[@ChonkyBoi_yt]

can you do this vid for Quiet?

[@luffiewebster]

Definitely!! Quiet would be super interesting to break down in a similar way to Venom!

[@rachelcobb2209]

Zero brainwashed venom snake not ocelot and it was done before venom and naked snake woke up so really both of them had to roll with it. Also bb is a good freind as he stayed to protect venom instead of starting outer heaven. Edit: paz didn't explode, he was hit with a enemy bazooka. This is the real ending in ground zeros

[@RealCowasaki_R1des]

He keeps the metal gear so no one can find it in the future

[@r3gret2079]

At first, I DID NOT like the idea of Venom AT ALL. But after playing the game n replaying it, I absolutely love Venom. Dude had some rough bullshit thruated upon him, you can see he is bothered by it, but he also believes in what Big Biss is teying to build. If that means Venom has to fully embrace being a devil, and earn the ire of the world, for Outer Heaven, he will. He does so with a smirk. What I wonder, if that smirk like "ya I'm the shit, Boss even said so" or is it "I will BE Big Boss, I will be the devil, I will sell the world. Not for you, Boss, but for Outer Heaven." Hot damn it's all so good!!! Edit: After the Truth mission, the staff at Mother Base will randomly say "whoever you are Boss, I'll follow you no matter what" or something like that. I feel that they would go with Venom no matter what he did, be it go away from BB's vision, or maybe even get in his way with no qualms.

[@Unknown-individual]

Hey, you should do MGS V villains vs MGS 3 snake eater Villains who would win in a death match

[@tomasbar1101]

Volgin vs Volgin 🔥🔥🔥

[@Unknown-individual]

@@tomasbar1101 brooo. Not just that. Take them all and put them in an area for them to fight. Personally, I think MGS V villains would beat snake eater villains till we get to the boss. In a way, it was my way of figuring out who fought harder opponents between Big Boss and Venom Snake

[@luffiewebster]

This would be really interesting! I'll add it to my list! I've always wondered what the bosses would think of each other, like the Man on Fire and the Fury...

[@luffiewebster]

😂😂😂 @tomasbar1101

[@Unknown-individual]

@@luffiewebster 💯💯

[@Giornio.b]

In phantom pain he is born because of rpg😱In the msx game he dies cuz of a rpg😱the shrapnel represents how he was only half of big boss and wasn’t truly evil but wasn’t good either, when he dies in metal gear 1 shrapnel enters him and kills him🤔imo it shows how big boss is now one, the explosion from rpg could possibly have burned his face off, he is now free from being big boss 😮 holy moly♾bandana

[@ResidentNotEvil5]

Awesome content as usual 👍

[@Frog-y2v]

in my opinion he is a goog guy from mission 1 to the truth after that he is as bad as big boss,becouse he is big boss . A manipulated man who chose the fate of being a puppet

[@whateverwhatever4026]

A. On a smaller scale, deterrence is a very real and proven thing. People like to bring up all the shootings in America, but the fact is, under ANY estimates, even the lowest possible ones, theres still waaaaay more legal defensive uses of firearms. A whole lot of those, if not most, being ones where the person didn't even need to fire to stop the threat against them. I'm talking about literal little girls stopping their homes from being robbed (and who knows what else) with their little pink guns. Real example. Multiple actually.....Now on a wider scale it gets a lot more messy, but considering we haven't gone through a nuclear apocalypse yet, it seems to be working. B. Your actions are always yours. Always. You can give leeway and considerations for all sorts of things, including Stockholm Syndrome, but at the end of the day, you're still the one pulling the trigger. The Manson cult are still responsible for their murders. Even trickery can only take you so far, like the girls who assassinated Kim Jong-Nam. They had no idea they were killing a man, but its still at least partially their fault and that will weigh on their conscious for their whole lives. The same goes for Vemon. Besides, Vemon would have done everything the exact same way even if he knew it all from the beginning. Because telling him didn't change anything for him. And no, hes not anywhere near as bad as BB, but the lesser of two evils is still an evil. My opinion anyway.... Tldr Vemon is still Big Boss. In every sense but actual body. He might try to be slightly more forgiving or fair, but hes still BB in all the metrics that matter.

[@alixowens8778]

Personally, I think Ocelot was responsible for how DD was trained/raised.

[@luffiewebster]

You know what? Fair. (but also Venom didn't have a problem *using* DD once he was trained, so I'd say he's still responsible 😂)

[@alixowens8778]

That is true, but dogs are brought into war all the time. In fact, it's what a lot of breeds were bred for. I'm willing to bet DD outranked everyone, including Venom, like the military does it,so any physical abuse done by the handler is considered assault on a superior officer

[@dedshaman6204]

5:09 girl police officers do that too lol

[@jaydenrantz3093]

god i love metal gear

[@DamienEditsYT]

He liek dogey he good source I like dogey. Also I'm an editor 👀

[@luffiewebster]

DD's a great buddy!! My fav before Quiet stole my heart haha And I'm not quite at a point where I can afford an editor haha but thank you for making yourself known!

[@SirJaguar]

Truely... The man who sold the world.

[@سالمامين-س3س]

The saddest thing that makes me feel sad about venom snake is big boss ueses him and steal his personality 😭 Vnom is way better than big boss

[@L0o0py95]

The one who sold the world

[@B___1980]

You seem like the only legit female MGS fan tbh

[@danthelowblood2653]

Is the cure to male loneliness forming a PMC with your boys?

[@Mister_Arrow]

Why does she call Big Boss 'BeeBee'? It's not like it saves any time as they are both two syllables. Plus, there is another Kojima game with a character actually named BB, so there is bound to be confusion.

[@darkgreenrifleman4871]

Good work Boss🐇🐕 Now that is some lateral thinking 🤔 S rank. In MGS there is no good or bad. Especially as it pertains to WAR!! For me Venom Snake is the most flat and boring protagonist in the history of gaming. Kojima blew the most tactical gameplay experience on a character with exactly zero “character “ which makes judging him even more mind boggling 🤦🏿‍♂️. Clearly you’re asking the right questions.👉🏿👉🏿

[@luffiewebster]

I'm so glad you liked the vid!! Venom is def a really subtle character where you really have to zoom in on the details to analyze him. I like what a subtle person he is tho because it makes the BB reveal at the end of MGSV be that much bigger of a deal. BB's such a charismatic person, if Venom was a similarly charismatic person it'd take away from the big reveal

[@tkandm]

Fantastic video. I think we can all agree that BB ruins lives. We hate him lol

[@tkandm]

NAH, no love for that war criminal!! lol@Punished_Nickname

[@luffiewebster]

BB can fall down a flight of stairs and explode in a fire (glad you liked the video haha)

[@officercat7907]

Venom sold the world