Is Wavedashing a Glitch?

Shoutout to Rocketman. Another big thank you to @jellymankelly for translating!
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Original conversation between Rocketman and Sakurai:
www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/so...

[@Fomortiis100]

Of *course* the guy who discovered wavedashing in Japan was a Luigi main

[@briangeer1024]

IKR 🤣

[@ianhoddinott9492]

To be fair, if someone didn't know what a wavedash was, they would know that there is some obvious jank going on with Luigi. The other characters don't look like they have black ice on their feet.

[@maxluigi2569]

Ah yes, I sure do love to L U I G I around.

[@cartermarshall2810]

You talking trash about us Luigi mains huh? 😂 We will Up-B you into the next DLC.

[@scrunk845]

Carter Marshall ahoy spongebob! I have over extended against a Luigi at 0% and will now lose a stock to a 0 to death combo and will start of the game in a terrible position! Agagagagag

[@quesadeeowl7845]

**Some one discovers wavedashing** Sakurai: Yes that's how you play the game

[@whatsup3183]

I don't get it

[@Umayrica]

*few years pass* Sakurai: No, this not how you’re supposed to play the game!

[@quesadeeowl7845]

What's up dog

[@SeriousStriker]

@@whatsup3183 It's a reference to something Sakurai says in the Banjo stream he did.

[@ryanmarcus3970]

What's up when announcing in early September that the developers were going to introduce home run contest to ultimate, sakurai was showing off that you could do it with too people as-well. He then proceeded to show himself doing co-op home run contest with two different controllers by himself, then suddenly said mid-way through showing “NO! That’s isn’t how you’re supposed to play the game!” Continuing to say how you should be playing with friends in co-op and not by yourself. Of course that got tuned into a meme and here we are 7 months later

[@GimR]

IT WAS SAKURA!?

[@Famitrack]

Doing your job for you back then. Lol

[@kevin9284]

GimR's Lab Make another hyperbolic video claiming to change the meta :-)

[@bigtoblerone8446]

Hi Gimr! I hope mvg is doing well during the whole quarantine thing. I hope the tourney is still going to thrive. 🙏

[@Whatismusic123]

Sakura?

[@newpancakeman]

Wildy Duce naruto girl i think, suprising she found wave dashing first

[@iReima]

I like how Rocketman was concerned about Sakurai getting a good night's sleep. That's pretty heartwarming.

[@PiercingSight]

Absolutely adorable. Man, Sakurai has needed rest for a long time. I'm glad that he can now.

[@icegod4849]

@@PiercingSight Just Down B sakurai, its not that hard

[@obiwancannoli1920]

@@PiercingSight he needs two turns after that tho

[@Green_Bean_Machine]

@@PiercingSightnot for long! you think hes gonna let them do the next smash without him? no chance

[@chuck_duck]

Hear me out: when Sakurai said “backdashing” could he have been referring to koopabackdashwaveshinehoverwalkmoonlanding?

[@mlalbaitero]

Of course, we noticed it during development

[@artificial844]

Yes infact I'm pretty sure he named it After further research I have found he added it to make absolute donkey sh*t wavedashes compared to others of course such as Bowser's and ganons better and actually usable

[@Gummpers]

yep

[@saltyralts]

Can't believe this guy mistyped this a year ago. It's Koopabackdashwave'slide'hoverwalkmoonlanding.

[@erich_ika]

@@saltyralts that's exactly what i was going to say: it's not koopabackdashwaveshinehoverwalkmoonlanding, it's koopabackdashwaveslidehoverwalkmoonlanding

[@zapne2000]

Bruh I tried this irl now im jesus

[@cmslash4814]

Do it from the top of buildings or any highly elevated surface and you’ll be able to fly once you hit the ground.

[@pierreaoun9600]

@ Very impressive

[@Eldoofus]

@ I'm just confused as hell, but gonna leave a like anyways.

[@zapne2000]

@ WTF I KNOW RIGHT

[@zapne2000]

@@Super_Suchi i tried once ..... i broke my leg

[@WastedFlan]

Sakurai having mastered neutral in the year 2002 with the sagely "wavedash back" lmaooo

[@swank8508]

sakurai the samus main

[@Junkyardproduxtions]

Honest knowing Sakurai, I'd believe it.

[@kimgkomg]

@@swank8508 Sakurai + Samus = Samurai

[@lornsumm3249]

2:30 is one of the biggest twists I've ever seen in a video

[@minato_ok0264]

Same

[@Kirafr0]

that’s hilarious

[@mini-_]

Sakurai, noticing people like Wavedashing: It's not a bug, it's a feature!

[@mrvespuccia.k.ameganite1747]

Sounds like something Bethesda would say

[@mrvespuccia.k.ameganite1747]

Pi napple that confirms it, we’re getting a fallout rep in smash because “it just works”(I want the courier though)

[@flamingpaper7751]

That's like Super Mario Bros' walljump mechanic, which is clearly a glitch

[@oofadoofa313]

I literally spent 20 minutes writing a long comment about the whole debate about "glitches vs. features" in the software community, and you capture the same idea with a meme. I applaud you lol

[@DevinDT99]

@@mrvespuccia.k.ameganite1747 I'd like them to include the spouse from 4

[@TipperProject]

This just makes me want a salty suite between chillindude and sakurai

[@ethaneng4802]

Louis dont worry about it

[@Eltrotraw]

Imagine chillin's disstrack for sakurai

[@dmoc7546]

5-0

[@commentnator2453]

He be like: respect your elders kid...

[@givecamichips]

What's the Japanese equivalent to "My B"?

[@Jojordy2312]

Imagine Chillindude going back to that forum and posting "my b"

[@brometheusthefirstbro4302]

Funny you say that😂

[@Lilfootcat]

@@brometheusthefirstbro4302 did he ? 😂

[@rainbowresorts]

@@brometheusthefirstbro4302 don't tease us did he?

[@DRKNT640]

Sakurai: it’s intentional Everyone: oh so it’ll be in all subsequent titles then? Sakurai: now hold on-

[@zacclark5945]

Honestly, bring back tripping.

[@sersmiles1635]

no need for it, needless tech to make it harder to get into the scene

[@char6102]

@Rensi The mind of a salty casual is astounding

[@ZACHaDN]

Zac Clark nice joke

[@actually_well_]

@@sersmiles1635 Now if you were talking about l cancelling I would agree, but wavedashing isn't needless. It changes up the gameplay significantly

[@LukeSpine]

Chillendude said wave dashing was stupid on the day I was born, sick

[@magmivire]

Isn't it past your bedtime

[@iridiculous8662]

@@magmivire isnt it time for ur shift?

[@hana-ng4ql]

Sauzels hes like 17-18 tho

[@themindmaster3073]

@@magmivire you have an odd view of 18yo's

[@magmivire]

@@iridiculous8662 In this economy?

[@RiverM8rix]

Imagine that we lived in the timeline where Melee was carried by pros “mad dashing” everywhere.

[@floyddog2283]

Imagine that timeline, and you saying, “Imagine that we lived in the timeline where Melee was carried by pros “wave dashing” everywhere.”

[@kjl3080]

tbf dashdancing is a real phrase

[@nicocchi]

that timeline wouldn't exist because the term mad dashing was copyrighted

[@KingBobXVI]

@@nicocchi - lol, yeah - that's why we call it wavedashing, because we all tried to call it mad dashing, but couldn't because of copyright, and the Tekken devs hadn't thought to copyright wavedashing :P

[@thetouffe316]

Backdashing is from regular fighting games, it's just dashing backwards (while still facing your opponent, as opposed to dashing back like in melee). It's a known fact that Sakurai has always been a fighting game fan and it's neat that he immediately realized you could microspace using wavedash back

[@GnashersFC]

I like these videos with lore from the old days of Melee.

[@robertflinch2447]

Hearing sakurai speak english makes me realize the guy they got to dub him in english is actually spot on

[@_-Dante-_]

Apparently wavedashing was in Brawl during developement.

[@hunterprice1715]

Dante No Gmos added is that why it works so nicely in pm?

[@petrie911]

More accurately, the directional airdodge was in Brawl in development, which allowed for wavedashing.

[@reversegoat3260]

Technically, its in all of them but smash 64 (I think). All you need is a slippery floor and code allowing you to transfer movement to such floor. No need to program a specific "wavedash" code. Its what makes objects and characters slide about the way they do in the smash games when wind, slopes, or other forces (like knockback) interact with other game pieces like items and characters.

[@lefrancais8808]

@@reversegoat3260 you need a directional air dodge

[@reversegoat3260]

@@lefrancais8808 Not even that, you just need a force to push you around. Airdodging just happens to be the most readily available, consistent, and accessible option. Wavedashing is short hand for sliding on demand. Again, wavedashing isn't something specifically coded in the game like jumping or attacking, its an interaction that emerges when certain parameters are met in the game engine. Its what makes it special and unique from other actions in the game.

[@Ludvix]

4:54 16 Photos Taken 1 Second Before Disaster

[@somekindofhmm]

It's worth mentioning that the very concept of comboing in fighting games wasn't originally meant to be part of SF2's design. They just noticed that you could cancel one move into another and ran with it because it looked cool.

[@poopheadtwenty-seven540]

See I hate Streer Fighter for just that reason. It's entire meta and gameplay is built on bugs and glitches. And to think they noticed it during development, too. That's just poor design smh my head.

[@ARMTOAST]

@@beolikespoo trying to correct a well established joke smh my head

[@benlucas3151]

Just to be clear, SF2 combos don't rely on cancelling moves into another, they rely on linking moves but generally the full animation plays out.

[@averyhepburn8092]

@@poopheadtwenty-seven540 it's not really poor design since it doesn't ruin the game. It's just a happy accident. Now Guile's death combos are poor design.

[@poopheadtwenty-seven540]

@@averyhepburn8092 r/woooooosh

[@DctrJimbo]

Oh wow. I don’t really play smash, but I always thought Tekken and MvC took the name Wavedash from Melee haha

[@thelastgogeta]

Melee is the younger one out of the bunch against Tekken and MvC, especially competitively so I'm not surprised we went through a "Mad Dash" of names before adopting what another community used.

[@DctrJimbo]

Yeah it is much younger. I’ve just always associated Wavedashing with Melee. It’s much more iconic to Melee than any other fighting game in my opinion

[@jijmotorp3079]

@@DctrJimbo In tekken and mvc wavedashing isn't that used. For tekken it is really rare .

[@jamiecreighton4127]

@@jijmotorp3079 most people don't even learn wavedashing in tekken, they do Korean backdashes more than wavedashes

[@DctrJimbo]

No, I know. I’m an MvC player and I follow Tekken

[@fardboi9781]

I really like how quiet your videos are. The low volume on the music combined with your voice makes them nice on the ears

[@aceydoesmusic]

2:30 I dunno why but I've always loved your deadpan deliveries

[@adasafak3116]

You have failed the WAVE CHECK

[@alice-pz1kf]

Poor Sakurai can't get a break, can he

[@gododoof]

People were telling him to get some rest all the way back in 2002

[@rainbowresorts]

@@SuperDrunkdragon ?

[@KeeganKeegan]

Pre-vid: it's an exploit. Post-vid: Wait what? Sakurai was wavedashing? Epic. Also, bye-bye Glitchfest, melee is now an Exploitation Celebration.

[@dekuskrub2154]

Imagine going into some Tekken forum trying to explain how Korean Backdashing is a glitch. Thats the kinda shit I need to see.

[@Lukmendes]

To be fair, KBD and wavedashing aren't that different in that regard, both use intentional mechanics, in an unintentional way (Since Tekken's backdash is meant to be cancellable into anything), so both are exploits, one that Namco didn't like, and KBD was removed in Tekken 4, but that pissed off high level players, so it was brought back, but Namco still doesn't like KBD, or good movement much, which is why games kept messing with how good movement is (6.0 had way worse movement than 5/DR, 6BR made it a bit better, both versions of Tag 2 had significantly better movement than BR, then Tekken 7 nerfed it again with no improvements in FR).

[@DJTileTurnip]

Telling them to wavedash back is powerful

[@somegreenguy]

It's the exact same situation as combos in Street Fighter II The developers didn't intend it to happen, but when they noticed it, they decided to keep it The only thing separating a glitch and a feature is developer intent

[@gernottiefenbrunner172]

Not even that. When you find a glitch, but don't have the resources to fix it without sacrificing something more important, you still kept it intentionally, but it's not necessarily a feature.

[@saricubra2867]

"The only thing separating a glitch and a feature is developer intent" Wrong. A Glitch is a bug or programming error than can break a game. Wavedashing was an unintented game mechanic (exploit) but Sakurai left that in the game intentionally, so wavedashing can't be qualified as an exploit now.

[@saricubra2867]

A glitch in Melee would be for example the Freeze Glitch, the Yo-Yo glitch, Name Entry, and other things like that because there is no logical explanation of why those things happen, it's simply bad coding.

[@gemiplus]

@@saricubra2867 Wavedashing was intended. Sakurai intends for you to move when you airdodge. Sakurai intends for you to slide when you have momentum on the ground. Therefore, Sakurai intends for you to slide when you airdodge into the ground. If he didn't intend for this to happen, then what did he want to happen instead? Us as users can't make a contradictory judgement especially considering the fact that it already follows logical sense. Also Wavedashing isn't a mechanic. Airdodge is a mechanic. Jump is a mechanic. Wavedash is simply a name WE GAVE to a specific combination user actions. Just like how WE GAVE Marth fair into dair the name "Ken Combo". Sakurai doesn't care if fair combos into dair. Sakurai doesn't care if you slide on the ground from an airdodge.

[@darienwest4748]

@@gemiplus I'm stealing this whenever someone calls wavedashing unintentional.

[@NightRaven5568]

Man this sakurai guy seems to know everything about smash he should make a smash fan game

[@leaffinite3828]

Is that actually Chillindude, lol?

[@doingitsidesways]

yes

[@simanolastname2399]

yes

[@schnozusmaximus9848]

yes

[@reason9262]

yes

[@FreetstheGreat]

yes

[@lemonhead19]

Wavedashing is such a neat mechanic, and the fact that people use it as a way to insult Melee instead of compliment it is insane.

[@saricubra2867]

The people that hate melee because of that are hypocrites. Why then Smash Ultimate has wavedashing or wavelanding then?

[@saricubra2867]

I've been playing smash bros since it came out in the N64, every game has some exploit or advanced technique, I think Melee's haters are jealous of how incredibly timeless the gameplay is.

[@NoctuaOlivae]

Star masterc sorry to split hairs, but technically ult doesn’t have wavedashing only wavelanding since you can’t airdodge for a bit after jumping in ult

[@saricubra2867]

@@NoctuaOlivaeTechnically wavedashing still exist if wavelanding is possible. Yeah, obviously you can't do wavedashing multiple times due to the lag, but few characters are more capable of doing a better wavedash and a very competent one at least once.

[@saricubra2867]

@@NoctuaOlivae Wrong: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqesc5-VprqNbKs

[@jakexdilla]

Not a glitch. More like a....quirk of the physics engine tbh.

[@ovenishot7173]

That's just another name for a glitch, backwards long jumps in sm64 are also quirks in the physic engine and those are obviously glitches

[@ovenishot7173]

The fact that it's a glitch dosen't make competitive melee any less good or challenging but wavedashing is a glitch, and a cool one at that

[@SoftBreadSoft]

​@@ovenishot7173 Wavedashing is the result of the intentional airdodge sliding. Since the developers knew about it, and didn't want to constrain it from x frames after jumping which would be incredibly easy, it is intended. In the computer world, "bug" is coined by a literal bug (moth) jammed in a physical relay. If you want to get even deeper into that original semantic, a bug is not just an unintended error but a physical or software(compiler) error that should not happen by the logic of the program. (i.e. bad/unconstrained programming is not a bug, it is bad programming.)

[@SoftBreadSoft]

@LeCoolFace Don't try to make stuff up. Sakurai said it was removed to "appeal to players of all levels." Which is kind of a farce, if you're not competitive in the first place it doesn't effect casual play.

[@lordmew5]

@LeCoolFace thats not even true their is a competitive player who doesn't use it. Stop talking about things you don't know about.

[@eloycalderon2924]

W A V E C H E A T I N G

[@chriiis7002]

Eloy Calderón L C H E A T I N G

[@ARMTOAST]

@@chriiis7002 you mean F U N C A N C E L I N G

[@AutokickOff]

That Chillin guy must have never gotten good at this game if he found wavedashing useless ;)

[@SeriousStriker]

He might have gotten 6-0'd by Leffen, so he seems like a shit player.

[@markkelly4077]

Probably does the taunt to bodied combo better than anyone

[@fierceserge8061]

he seems like the type of guy to drop a diss track and get bodied

[@Stormclaw3]

Austin Cannon Chillin: “my b”

[@tinibari456]

@@SeriousStriker I'm willing to bet that 99% of people watching this video would get 6-0'd be Leffen, too.

[@jorgelazaro6833]

Bro. You got a dude that has never touched melee, me, binging your videos. Bravo on your work man

[@GurdevSeepersaud]

I love your channel. I'm sure people comment this all the time, but even though I'm not a huge fan of watching or playing Melee, your videos, both the compilations and the analyses, are fucking awesome. Every one of your analysis-style videos is a must-watch for me, I love learning more about this game. Please keep doing what you do.

[@BigmanJesusECDJ]

The dude at 5:33 was a guy who responded to me saying most ppl who play ultimate don’t enjoy it because of how much they complain, how much they ask for buffs, nerfs, etc. He then went on to make many baseless statements about melee citing how we only use about 4 characters, how we’re such a toxic community, and so on.

[@poopheadtwenty-seven540]

It's funny how people will claim a community's toxic while they're being toxic.

[@NAFEDUDE]

Sounds like you're really upset that someone on the internet criticized a thing you like.

[@BigmanJesusECDJ]

@@NAFEDUDE I wouldn't classify "only 4 viable characters lol" "such a glitchfest lmao" "you guys just cheat the game lol" as criticism. Those are just baseless statements.

[@NamedKid10]

guys, guys.. the porn is where its at!

[@rioleo533]

I admit I used to be one of those people. Back in the day, I would crusade to trash melee and call it a glitch fest. I did it because I was mad. I was angry the first time I experienced getting thrashed by a wavedasher. It's just an advanced technique, but I refused to use it and wanted to be a purist. What an idiot I was. I should have just learned how to wavedash instead of crying online. Even in Brawl and beyond I got thrashed by amazing combos, and still got mad even without the presence of wavedash. This is when I realized how stupid I had been. I was just bad at the game, and I would still be bad at it for many years. Now I am finally good at the game, after playing for so many years Smash Ultimate has made me see the light. It's all just practice and hard work that pays off, there was no shortcut, no glitch that made people beat me for free. I wouldn't even call it an exploit. I am admitting this because I feel like I ruined the internet community's opinion of melee, and I was wrong. You shouldn't have to call this an exploit in your video just to please the naysayers I helped create over the years. It's an advanced tech, a user-created way to play the developers did not intend, but makes the game better as a whole. Just have fun guys, and learn/improve to make it even more fun. I wish I could erase this argument from the internet, so there you have it. I'm sorry.

[@donweas0]

Top 10 best anime character development

[@poopheadtwenty-seven540]

We need more people like this.

[@danielkim1349]

Will a this reply possibly bump this comment

[@Jigglypoof]

Borp, is that you?

[@rakkatytam]

Think we just witnessed the boiling of a new copy pasta

[@SSB_Seal]

I am absolutely loving these videos that are seemingly aimed at people who say ignorant things about Melee. Please keep it up!

[@jamesmason3734]

Berdly learning about how Sakurai encouraged people to wave dash and getting upset.

[@DanTheLoler_17]

Scientists: We need a new discovery! Luigi: Now this looks like a job for me

[@wyatttibbitts8603]

When Jonathon Blow was developing Braid, he said that by messing around with the different systems and mechanics, he discovered new interesting ways they could work together. “In a way, the game designed itself”, he said while giving a presentation about the game. This is how I see the advanced techniques in melee, results of systems in the game working together in surprising ways.

[@MasonEricPatterson]

Great video as per usual AsumSaus! Would love more videos about techniques and oddities in Melee!

[@Eldoofus]

JUST TURN THE SUBTITLES ON AT 2:38, DO NOT ASK HOLY SHIT I'M WHEEZING

[@ashy3604]

I saw it earler XD

[@fartmicrowave]

The existence of ultimate's wave dash, minus the ability to do it repeatedly proves that melee's wave dash was meant to happen, but not to the extreme that the players have used it

[@colinfranco3046]

Asum I really love your video essays. All of them are so entertaining and interesting, and I just adore the editing style. You can really tell how much effort you put in with both the editing and the research. Keep it up, man 😊

[@swbaseball021]

Keep up the great work! These videos + melee history are very well made. You should be proud of your work!

[@GenericSpartaRemixer]

It's annoying to see people try to discredit Melee for it's "imperfect" mechanics. Sure, "exploitfests" require a lot of practice to play well, but those who are passionate about playing Melee learn these exploits anyways. In fact, future Smash titles even have alot of unintentional and intentional exploits

[@GenericSpartaRemixer]

@Awakened Virtue I guess that is partially true, but Smash was never really advertised as a "competitive, high-skill-ceiling" fighting game, even if Smash Ult acts as a better introduction to fast-paced Smash

[@stratoz6272]

@@GenericSpartaRemixer ult is faster, but it is soooo easy to play (not at high level, just to learn). Even compared to smash 4, just being able to short hop consistently makes the game much more accessible. It's obvious they wanted to attract as many players as possible this time

[@assassinpanda9958]

Stratoz ult is definitely not faster than melee

[@stratoz6272]

@@assassinpanda9958 no, I wanted to say compared to smash 4 sorry

[@DoctorFalchion]

@@assassinpanda9958 They meant faster than Brawl/Smash 4.

[@griffin8762]

Reminds me a lot of the mockball from Super Metroid. I guess no one really knows if it’s intended but it’s so useful and its most famous use, to roll under gates to access super missiles or ice beam early works so smoothly that it feels like the devs either coded it and designed those gates with it in mind, or noticed it in development and left it in just for the sake of it being fun to do and since they already put a bunch of hidden mechanics in the game for sequence breaking like wall jumping and shine sparking, why not? Like with the “jump + air dodge into the ground to conserve momentum” explanation for wave dashing, you can explain the science behind mockball as “jump + morph as you hit the ground to cancel bounce animation and conserve momentum”, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t intended, it just means you can explain how it works. Anyways love your videos big papa

[@GameMaster00744]

Coming back to say that the thumbnail on this video still one of my favorites on anything ever

[@supernebula101]

Calling wavedashing a glitch is like calling rocket jumps or look-down glitches in their respective games. It's not a malfunction, just a quirk of the engine

[@shuwan4games]

TallestGreen42 I mean it were glitches just cause it is beneficial doesn’t change that

[@cadfog]

@@shuwan4games they're not glitches, though. these are mechanics functioning as intended, but being used in ways that aren't.

[@greenoftreeblackofblue6625]

So a glitch. Thanks for clearing it up pal. Though rocket jumps did become part of the game in tf2

[@aradia9726]

green of tree black of blue more an exploit

[@Blucario90]

The first games are debatable, but rocket jumps are definitely intended mechanics in TF2, since if a class who isn't meant to rocketjump does, they fly way farther than those who are meant to.

[@Gummpers]

shoutout to the guy on twitter that called fucking CHAIN GRABS a glitch

[@Volcanic_Rave]

dev saying they know how something in the finished product works/=dev saying something was intentional

[@didsomeoneaskforanegg2168]

amazing editing and research, love the direction your content has taken 👍👍

[@noirlavender6409]

Thank you for making the video dude, hurry up with the others, your content is fantastic and, possibly the best meele youtube there is.

[@Space23SPR]

Its explanations in video form like this that make me believe that Melee is the greatest Smash game ever designed. And I mainly play Ultimate, but I will forever love Melee. A toast to Melee!

[@saricubra2867]

Ultimate is very good because it learned from Melee and Smash 64. If Sakurai reduced the awful 100ms of input lag and weird buffer in Ultimate, then it's a close call with Project M or legacy XP since Melee's content pales incomparison to other games since Brawl.

[@lightbrand_]

Star masterc that’s exactly what some of the ultimate people don’t seem to get, we don’t play Melee for how much content it has, we play it because of how the game works, how the movement works, we play melee because we like the game, melee players wouldn’t switch to ultimate or pm just like that

[@saricubra2867]

@@lightbrand_ Project M or Legacy XP are the perfect unreleased smash games as official. They are so well balanced, everyone is broken, like in Smash 64. Not even Melee is so well balanced like in Smash 64 or those famous Brawl mods.

[@armpitbeard2031]

Melee is unbalanced trash. Take a shower.

[@DisasterEnby]

@@armpitbeard2031 broken as fuck, too. Wavedashing being an unintentional exploit only left in to avoid breaking the game doesn't mean Melee itself isn't a glitchfest. Save the sad exploits and glitch abuse for speedrunners, and play competitively the real way.

[@CrappyBlue]

2:20 oh hey, that's me

[@cloudyskyeful]

Love the way to do videos now, so much personality. Love the content man

[@azrielthecrazed3371]

Combos in Street fighter were originally a glitch and it changed the entire genre for the better

[@TheHobospider]

Reminder that combos were never intended in the original Street Fighter either and now it's a staple in fighting games.

[@omaraguero]

2:38 wtf with the auto subtitles

[@meatsauce4772]

LMAO

[@Keshaire]

That's a glitch

[@lukzthrash.5331]

Thats a glitch

[@superbropr0]

That a glitch

[@patrickburton1401]

Wooooow this was a majorly fun to watch I love your channel

[@remarit]

me and my brother became adicted to this channel keep it up, and never stop, please

[@megabuster3940]

Melee borrowed the term from Tekken Over 20 years later, Kazuya is now in Ultimate And he is now the only one with a practical wavedash in Smash We've come full circle

[@brynshannon6692]

It *kinda* feels like an ascended glitch, if they *discovered* it during development, saw it didn't seriously break the game (crash or long-term affect the experience), and then decided "That's rad. Keep it in."

[@coolamp]

I really like this video, keep popping Asum.

[@CrazyConnor2]

Just want to say that I love you choise of music. The Sims 3 music about 3 minutes in was very unexpected, but I love it.

[@Faulheit]

rip my man kurv

[@Minty_Meeo]

Disclaimer: I haven't messed with Melee's code personally, this is an educated guess. Wavedashing isn't a glitch. The *absence* of wavedashing would me more akin to a glitch. The grounded and aerial states of a character, like all character states, have code that dictates how the character should transition from one state to another. I'd assume that the transition from aerial to grounded recalculates the velocity vector to be purely horizontal. This behavior could only be created intentionally, and as it is working as intended, there is no glitch. Now let's imagine a world where the developers forgot to code the transition from aerial state to grounded state properly. The velocity vector would still be moving the character down, relatively, opening up the possibility for phasing though the collision. This would no doubt be a oversight, could be called a glitch. Hopefully my conjecture here isn't too far off. Melee modders do your worst if you need to correct me.

[@Izandaia]

I could well imagine that the game retains your momentum when you wavedash because the code doesn't tell it to do anything else rather than because the code tells it to do that. The former would make it a physics exploit, while the latter would make it not even that. It would just be an intended mechanic.

[@52flyingbicycles]

They could have coded it more akin to a platformer, where landing cancels part of your velocity vector. That probably felt too slow for Melee’s pace though, so they had a different transition function so you could “hit the ground running”. The exploit arises when you add the air dodge’s acceleration. If wavedashing itself were intentional, it would just be a mechanic, not even an exploit. Testers noticed that the mechanics created unexpected behavior when functioning properly and just left it in. That’s what makes it an exploit. If, instead, the player normally hits the ground using a platformer-like transition function but adding the air dodge makes the function wonky, that would be a glitch.

[@bb010g]

@@52flyingbicycles Yes! Wavedashing is a consequence of Melee's almost more sim-like design (comparing the "platform fighter" genre to traditional platformers or fighters), where the systems designed interact with each other as "naturally" & reusably as possible.

[@joehawkes6559]

Still loving ur vids congrats on hitting 100K hopefully in the near future

[@danielrabinovitz478]

This kind of thing happens in video game development time and time again. It's very common for devs to leave in an unintended consequence due to that consequence being really cool. The melee devs probably didn't implement wavedashing on purpose, but it's cool and gives you more movement options so they kept it. As an example from my own life: I had a Java class in high school, and one of our projects was to build Asteroids from mostly from scratch. I had a "bug" in my code for rotating the spaceship because I made a typo: when you hit an arrow key to turn the ship, it would fold one corner over the other corner instead of moving both corners. It ended up being a really cool barrel roll effect with no negative impact on gameplay, so I kept it.

[@jocyanide]

"Melee is popular because of exploits like wavedashing!" Uh... yeah. It is, and that's the way we like it. Is it not supposed to be?

[@martmine4618]

I love wavedashing but I have to disagree with your this. I enjoy melee because the mechanics are fun, not the exploits.

[@plannedtuna8293]

So the mechanics are fun...but using (exploiting) the mechanics isn’t...?

[@jocyanide]

@@plannedtuna8293 I never said any of that shit.

[@louismccormick3263]

@@jocyanide they're talking to another guy

[@Gamesforus1]

The word exploit isnt being used negatively here, even though the connotation is usually negative.

[@thomasc9248]

2:38 enable subtitles here. Thank me later.

[@ikei6940]

Holy Shit

[@Just1ceFury]

Holy Shit

[@str8fiyah918]

Holy Shit

[@slecchi4366]

Sakurai talking to the toxic side of Smash.

[@Athesies]

Im really happy to see this video be made, especially when its made so well

[@Blockyboxguy]

I’d love to see a video like this about phantom hits. I have no idea how they work and I’ve always wondered if they were intentional

[@brumpotungus6959]

They are quite intentional! When a hurtbox and a hitbox are tangential, the programmers are faced with a sort of philosophical question: Does it count as a hit or a miss? So they just compromised and gave you some damage and no knockback. So for anyone complaining that their hit was a phantom, technically they should feel lucky they got any damage at all!

[@jinto_reedwine]

When I was 15 and playing Melee shortly after it came out I remember reading about the technique and too thought it was a bug. Kind of amazing to finally know the truth after all these years! Love these recent videos about the both known and lesser known mechanics in Melee!

[@jotarokujo4641]

0:35 How the fuck was a Gamecube and Melee just $100?! This has to be some sort of meme, I refuse to believe that good consoles were that cheap.

[@TDG386]

Well, prices notably drop at the end of the 90's, for example the saturn was 400$ fucking dollars, and the later console (Dreamcast) was just 200$. The n64 drop was really low un comparison, from 200$ to just the price You mentioned for the Gamecube (but i'm surprised that it's 100$ fucking dollars for the console AND the BEST selling Game of the GC, that's ridiculously cheap)

[@PollyBonanzas]

Cool video, AmusSamus. I’ve been watching a bunch of your videos lately because KZbin is now pushing them at me, but I do like learning all this technical stuff about Melee. I don’t even play Melee (anymore), and I never played Smash at a competitive level, so it’s kinda strange also. It does make me want to pull out my copy of Melee and mess with some of these advanced techniques tho. Btw, I also checked the version I have out of curiosity. 1.0 is the original one I got. I’m not surprised tho, since I got the game for Christmas, less than a month after it came out. I also have a caseless 1.2 copy, but it’s pretty scratched up. It’s not so bad that it can’t be resurfaced though.

[@notabene9804]

This would be familiar to anyone playing tf2: trimping (basically an airspeed velocity exploit in a similar vein) is a mechanic that opens up soldier and has created the demo knight (exploiting the aforementioned as well as map geometry). But these "glitches" are essential to the behavior of the Source engine, and rocket jumping, the foundation of the trimp, has existed since quake.

[@xenocide1307]

How bad do you need to be to think that chain grabbing of all things is a glitch

[@imbanana]

0:40 ULTIMATE MELEE HE KNOWS

[@unny8877]

Perfect video length, when I was ready to move on it ended!

[@Mousemanmouse]

I love watching your videos and learning about melee

[@poopheadtwenty-seven540]

Once, when I was saying that Ultimate's movement felt clunky and limited, my friend asked me what movement technique I wish was in Ultimate. I answered "Wavedashing." He shot at me, "Uhhh I dont think it would be wise to use broken physics." He's the kind of guy who will fight to the death when he thinks he's right, so I decided it wouldn't be worth it to argue. Fast forward a few months, and he got Rivals of Aether. Another one of our friends wanted to play with him and he thought it looked cool. Because he thought Rivals looked like a good game, he went in with an open mind about wavedashing. A few weeks ago, someone asked me why wavedashing was considered a good mechanic, and my friend told him how cool wavedashing was and how much it tied the whole platform fighting genre together. People who criticize wavedashing are short-sighted. All it took was a change of perspective for my friend to realize that wavedashing was more than just a dumb cheat. I really wish more people would open there mind about this. There would be several less pointless arguments if they did.

[@fryenchill2817]

Poophead Twenty-seven While I mostly agree, I would like to say that wavedashing wouldn’t really have much of a place in ultimate. Initial dashes are extremely quick and allow you to act out of them with any move on the ground. In other words, it effectively works like a wavedash, albeit a little slower and it requires you to look the direction you’re moving (which isn’t even relevant since you can just instantly reverse any move other than jab in the game with either a b- reverse or a certain stick angle) also, since there are very few grounded jump-cancellable moves, if any, in Ultimate, you couldn’t even do wave-shining or anything similar. So even if wave dashing were in Ultimate, it wouldn’t have much use aside from replacing Falcon’s AWFUL initial dash.

[@poopheadtwenty-seven540]

@@fryenchill2817 you make a fair point. I guess I never thought of it that way. Putting wavedashes aside, though, wavelanding I think would add a lot of depth to movement, specifically platform movement. You can kind of waveland in Ultimate, but it has no utility.

[@meganinja456]

@@fryenchill2817 I was about to mention Falcon but you brought him up, lol. I don't mind not having wavedashing, but definitely wish Falcon could space away from an opponent without kicking his leg up in their face (or attack) first. Also, having some kind of mechanic for microspacing (such as wavedashing) would deepen the game a lot, but it's still not the biggest deal in the world.

[@Geneolgia]

I don't disagree but Ultimate has anything ouf of the dash which is sinioar to wavedash, what Uktinate lacks is keeping momentum when jumping.

[@fryenchill2817]

@@poopheadtwenty-seven540 For most characters, wavelanding doesn't have utility, but characters with slow, floaty double jumps can make use of it. For example, lets say Yoshi launched their opponent up with an up smash on battlefield mid-stage and almost killed with it. The Yoshi player would then want to follow the up-smash up, and the best position to do that from would be the top platform. The problem, of course, is that they'd need to double jump to do this, which rises slowly but steadily unlike other double jumps. Yoshi would also need to fall back down, which is pretty slow for Yoshi. This means that getting to the top platform and landing on it is a pretty slow process for Yoshi. However, by wavelanding, Yoshi only needs to stay in their double jump animation for a couple frames before landing, and doesn't have to reach the peak of their jump, which, unlike most characters, saves frames.

[@azophi]

Sakurai: plays with 2 controllers *this isn't how you're supposed to play the game!* Also Sakurai: I mean this glitch is kinda part of the game on purpose-

[@pumpkin6192]

The music at the start is Saturn valley from Earthbound

[@Mote.]

Your videos are so good I rewatch them sometimes

[@maskofthedragon]

It's a glitch for everyone but Luigi

[@TheRavingLobster]

Sakurai specifically stated it affects Luigi *more* noticably because of his low friction. It's a trait given to literally every character lol

[@maskofthedragon]

@@TheRavingLobster It's a joke

[@JohnSmith-zd7rs]

I knew it. This guy on the Nintendude getting rekt video tried arguing that wobbling is a glitch just because it can "kill from zero."

[@hamsnadwich6767]

"Masahiro fucking Sakurai"

[@jackpakela-trumpet891]

Great and informative video! Thanks!

[@666ZX]

Smash Bros borrowed the rage mechanic and wavedashing from Tekken. Man I could probably list 12 more solid reasons on why Tekken deserves representation in Smash.

[@megavolt67]

You may first have to convince the fans of more traditional fighting games like Tekken and Street Fighter that Smash isn't merely a kid's party game that shouldn't be taken seriously on a competitive level. If you check around, that sort of attitude is still prevalent among them.

[@TDG386]

O'boy, i got some hot and gud news

[@GabrielAidley]

Really like the music choice for this one, also quite funny how the name "Wavedashing" isn't even original, apparently?? Now that's funny. Now though...is Wavedashing in Tekken 7 a glitch?

[@FYCxxLeoxx]

Since you mentioned wobbling at the end, I'd like to see you make a video on it. Like break down what it is, why it works, and why banning the tech is such a common discussion.

[@emoimo4171]

You can’t escape a grab if a third character hits you (intended mechanic). Ice Climbers happen to be able to meet that condition on their own (exploit, not glitch). People want to ban it because it’s an easy, inescapable 0-death. That’s it. End of story

[@leaffinite3828]

Just noticed that even in that old forum post the kid tells Sakurai to get some rest. The man really needs it!

[@vox__ama6458]

Chillindude really called wavedashing stupid

[@OtakuUnitedStudio]

The thing is, wavedashing was NOT an intentional part of the game. Sakurai even said that the team left it in after it was reported as a bug because they didn't think it would make any kind of major impact on the game. It's a quirk of the engine, not a deliberate feature. All of that said, it can still be argued that it's working as expected. It's like saying that the BLJ in SM64 is intentional because it was left in the final build of the game - it's ignoring the fact that the bug was known about but dismissed as minor.

[@ExaltedUriel]

Plus unlike wavedashing, BLJ _was_ patched out, in the Japanese only "Shindou" rerelease of Super Mario 64, which is the basis of the 3D All-Stars version. But I assume this is because it's a simpler fix (literally just putting a cap on Mario's backwards momentum when there wasn't previously) when in Melee's case it's a side-effect of the game's momentum mechanics, and is, in the large scope, harmless.

[@plentyofpaper]

My perspective has been this: I cannot think of an alternative to wave air-dodging into ground that is obviously more correct for when a character's air-dodge is interrupted by a solid object. I can think of 4 things potentially happening in this scenario. 1. The character phases through the surface. 2. The character instantly loses all momentum on contact. 3. The character's momentum is preserved and the character is transferred to a grounded state where grounded rules, such as friction apply. 4. The character remains in an air-dodge state, but his Y movement is cancelled (or movement perpindicular to the ground.) Think Pikachu's quick attack diagonally into the ground. Intuitively, situation 1 seems wrong, but the others make sense. None of options 2-4 seem to be drastically more correct than the others, so I wouldn't call any of these behaviors a glitch if they were implemented. Although Scenario 3 in the case of Luigi's super low friction plays out super questionably.

[@epicboomshine6595]

I don’t even play smash bros regularly, yet these are entertaining to watch.