"Is WoW Too Complicated?" - Pika Reacts

[@angelm3254]

The most underrtted thing they never talked about was, the abilities you needed to remember from other classes, otherwise you become dog food anyway.

[@ronaldwestbeal2269]

That comes with playing the game it’ll take some time I don’t even have to try to recognize what the abilities in the game do for every class I just know

[@effortlessGFX]

Well done Ronald, you’ve cracked it. Proud of you. It really is that simple everyone. No issues here.

[@ronaldwestbeal2269]

@@effortlessGFX why are you being an asshole all I said was it comes with time there’s no need to rush that I don’t see how you view my comment as me trying to say it’s an easy fix or something

[@austin3205]

I think blizzard should add their own interface to show you enemy class defensives or what not

[@patdeleva7072]

Omnibar let’s you scroll through every class cd in their menu and check off the ones you want icons for, even if you don’t use the icons, it’s a quick way to comb through all the classes and see major offensives and defensives

[@Laou41]

They should just do what GW did and make a PVP mode that you can just make a max level, get full gear and go instantly. Without that WoW is a fucking grind that I dont need.

[@ttt69420]

Bro you can literally get level 80 in a night and full honor the next night and cap conquest the next night. A three day weekend can get you caught up to R1s, other than crafted algari shit. It's never been less of a grind than it is right now. And there's no increased conq caps, t2 weapons etc, it's never been easier from a "grind" and perpetual disadvantage standpoint.

[@okandokandast]

Pika is vastly underestimating how much prep is needed to even play comp WoW PvP compared to your avg comp FPS. Leveling, gearing, setting up basic addons (arena frame + dr tracker at least), finding someone to play with to even get started at low rating. You dont even need all the fancy macros/WAs etc but the barriers are still massive.

[@BloodyElbow707]

Yeah hes missing the point completely lol, obviously there is a learning curve to games. but you have to do and add so much shit to play wow. its not even close, but he did read a comment that said cope, and he is full of copeium for sure

[@IIFeaRzXD]

i know im late but him comparing it to fps games and their settings was some of the biggest cope ive heard today. As a new player i can tell you this game is not new player friendly at all lmao.

[@harrisonbannerman]

Literally all of that is a basic part of mmorpgs. If you don't like that this genre isn't for you

[@toonmaster777]

​@@harrisonbannerman Addons are not a basic part of mmorpgs. WoWs design is so bad it makes them nearly required. other games its for simple quality of life or just aesthetics. Also not as much prep for other mmos as much as wow. Also if you read okandokandast they are comparing it to fps. Has nothing to do with whether they like it or not, its just a comparison that pika is claiming is the same, which it isnt. Setting up your peripherals and your Game Settings is something people do for every game(even single player ones).

[@okandokandast]

Sure, the issue however is that competitive PvP games don't work when no one's playing them, and people don't play because the "do tons to get started PvPing" genre doesn't appeal to a sufficient amount of PvPers. This (along with a myriad of other reasons making PvP in WoW awful) causes the regular negative spiral of people quitting due to not enough people playing that we're currently starting to see.

[@Checkem]

As a healer i started in solo shuffle. I am so fkn bad but solo shuffle gave me the confidence and experience to try to join 3s. I wish diminishing returns and party cooldowns were base line in the ui

[@Kassadinftw]

Blizz would be really smart to incorporate some of the well used PVP ui mods into the interface as a way to assist new players.

[@stepheniavarone9836]

Try to start as Dps in solo shuffle you will log out waiting for Que times

[@hyperstatic6037]

Absolutely. DR and cooldown tracking and trading should be clarified much more in the standard UI. Also, all the pvp specific tuning and ability changes in different modes. You have to keep up with current patch notes and all that just to have a slight clue what is happening

[@heroictesticles6870]

Soon as you make a mistake, or are just outplayed as a healer in 2's or 3's people start rage quitting. It's really not easy to get into unless you are in a guild with people who don't have the maturity of toddlers.

[@dismiss3d323]

You open Valorant you queue for a game. You open League/Dota you queue for a game. You open wow and pay monthly to do chores because the minigame we like to play is trapped in a MMO.

[@trivial50]

Wrong as of DF. Even Shadowlands had minimal amounts of chores for PvP. But DF is full gear in 5 hours playtime at max level.

[@oldmoney1022]

@@trivial50 "But DF is full gear in 5 hours playtime at max level." Uhh define full gear? Full honor gear with embellishments? Sure, but with how long epic bgs can last, 20-30 minutes each, 5 hours is probably not right. 6-7 hours, in other words, a full day of playtime, maybe. To even become competitive. Tier? No. Full conquest? Hell no, unless you got a good teammate to play with to spam arenas with.

[@eohgee-1269]

@@trivial50 it can be even quicker depending on wins / weekly events

[@fullgazz]

MINIGAME trapped in a MMO, Just brilliant!

[@silvioantonio6952]

​@@trivial50only 5hours, after max level. Guess i must be glad. In cs go, i can open the game on a brand new account, and just play pvp, same on dota, lol, valorant... 😂😂😂😂

[@Paul-xp1kd]

He's so right about how unwelcoming and negative the community is... sure the game has had problems for a while. But the more players coming in the more feedback on these issues we get.

[@oldmoney1022]

This is called Karma. This is what inevitably happens to businesses that don't listen to customer feedback. WoW players complaints have gone unanswered for years, and this is the result. Potential new customers stay away. Sucks for the loyal existing customers, but it is what it is.

[@Literofcola77]

So true I literally came back from a pretty long break on Friday and while leveling a did a dungeon, the one where you fly around to the diff spots I don’t know the name but I didn’t have my dragon flying yet and instead of them explaining that I could use the fp I was called “a useless waste of ducking time” and booted. People are ridiculous it was a reg dungeon

[@Saf_Ibn_Sayyad_Bacon]

​@@Literofcola77pvers are toxic due to mythic plus

[@dingdongspaghetti]

very true, blizzard execs actually hacked my pc and made me tell new and learning players they're trash and to quit the game, wasn't my fault@@oldmoney1022

[@BebegosAspectOfBabyFlight]

Fresh Heroic raid? Ask for curve. Now you have blocked new players from accessing that content. So there goes your favourite games popularity. 3 years later stupid curve will mean nothing. Blizzard has to fix this somehow.

[@kickthunt4239]

The main problem with WoW is the fact that you need outside websites to play the game optimally. The lack of in game information on how to play your toon whether that's pve or pvp is really bad. A lot of tooltips are just plainly labelled wrong, no where does it tell you what you should be aiming for gear wise. Good luck finding out what diminishing returns are. New players need more information to make their journey a smoother experience.

[@derlou88]

try path of exile

[@robbin2331]

This goes for Venruki's example as well: Counterstrike, on the surface, looks like a very simple game. But 80% of players are still in silver/gold (the lowest ranks). If you really want to play like the pros, you have to take into account your and your enemy's economy, know your timings, know your flashes/smokes, play on sound etc. which - you guessed it - also requires some form of external help like the websites you'r talking about. One could almost say that there's enough handholding in WoW to make it just as "easy" to just pick up and play as CSGO.

[@Wolta]

@@robbin2331 That's completely fair, but I feel like it's harder in WoW. CSGO only has maybe 20 weapons and 5 grenades, that every player can buy. WoW has 40 abilities per class, with an added racial ability, borrowed power (haven't played lots of DF so not sure if it still has it). Me as an "experienced" WoW player it's not that overwhelming, but I can imagine WoW being way more overwhelming than CSGO for new players. That being said, CSGO doesn't have PvE, thus learning the game requires you to play with 4 others against 5 others. Whereas in WoW you can learn the game at your own pace while leveling.

[@zackkilley3223]

@@robbin2331i think valorant is a better example of a game that’s extremely new player/casual friendly. csgo u still need to know lineups at this point because of the older player base, but with valo they took a lot of the pressure off by having smokes be just point and click. yeah you can learn like molly lines up but i don’t think it’s really that impactful until like literal pro play/high immortal/radiant. i think establishing a stronger foundation in wow would be much healthier for the longevity of the game and to introduce new players to the game - just take away all this extra shit that is really unnecessary and let people do what they wanna do, which really is m+/raiding/pvp. i think blizzard should look at the good things from classic servers and live servers and combine them to make a genuinely enjoyable game again.

[@joshgarcia6344]

@@derlou88 yeah PoE is an even worse version of needing outside software and information in order to play the game. Casuals never have a chance. I've tried getting like 10 of my friends to play the game and only 1 has ever even made it to endgame, yet all of them play wow endgame at at least a semi-hardcore manner.

[@PawanM]

I WANNA BE LIKE PIKABOO WHEN I GROW UP TOO!

[@wipes47]

this game used to feel like a job at times. so much to know, so much to do. i miss it but lets be real, it can be a time sink

[@wrongman5495]

in pvp now you have to do nothing , the problem its the soloshuffle q time for dps

[@trivial50]

takes 2 hours to gear now

[@bubsenseijebe2993]

its only a time sink if you let it be tbh

[@SlackinPanda]

game easily has more to know now than it ever has. Which is part of the difficulty in learning; dont stack the right stuff, your damage is pitiful.

[@wrongman5495]

unlocking 2 champion in lol its the same time if not more as get honor gear atm

[@Ribcut]

4:35 I'm sorry but this was advanced level cope. Talking about monitor settings, desk position, graphics settings, disabling vsync, and 90% of what you mentioned is for every game you're playing on PC including WoW, not just FPS games. In fact half of what you said applies to anyone who just uses a computer every day and decides to optimize their experience. WoW is the only game I have played in history that requires me to install 3rd party software to make the game playable. It's honestly one of the reasons I am hesitant to reinstall the game when a new xpac drops, because I think of how tedious and annoying installing or updating addons is going to be. WoW is also the only game where I'm required to pay $15 a month just to log in, whereas most other popular multiplayer games are literally free with cosmetic shop. (WoW has both somehow) Aim Labs is the only relevant comparable point, and I personally don't use it anymore because playing the actual game will ultimately be better practice anyway. It's not a requirement at all, whereas addons in WoW is absolutely 100% a requirement. Venruki was right here brother even though I love your content and you're the goat. I might watch the occasional video, but I'm not playing the game for the main reasons he mentioned. Saying "you wouldn't get 2 kills in cs:go" isn't analogous because that's due to a lack of skill, not a lack of completing the time gated tasks to be competitively viable. Imagine if your gun did 30% less damage than the enemy team because they played more last month. The game would die in a week. People outside the WoW community don't put up with that shit. Also imagine this 30% debuff ON TOP of there being a skill gap, and that's WoW arena for new players. Every human recreation that has withstood the test of time has a skill gap, but WoW specifically requires you to grind before your skill even becomes a relevant variable. You're the best rogue of all time besides maybe Reckful, and I would 100% beat you every single time if I'm in full conquest + embellishments and you're in random blues you got from leveling. That's not skill, and it's not the idea of fun to most people trying to get into the game.

[@ppsarrakis]

his brain is so assimilated that he can only see the world with this POV,like a matrix screensaver.

[@neji275]

imagine writing an essay in a youtube comment section no one is going to read this shit. shut up bro

[@arforafro5523]

Something I told a friend who stuck to 2v2 rated and didnt try much of Solo Shuffle was games are usually 4-2, 2-4 or 3-3 for dps while for healers its usually 6-0 or 0-6. DPS are playing a game of figuring out who the weakest player is on the match while healers are competing directly with the enemy healer, as a DPS you're usually trying to scrap a win in one of the 3 rounds with the worst player to go positive while a skill gap between both healers means the best healer will roll the enemy healer 6-0. You end up playing 6 rounds having a net positive or negative or 1 game if you did not go even and then you're back to waiting for another 40 minutes. I think the easiest solution would be enabling 2v2 with 4 DPS players if there's no healers queueing up, 2v2 is a degenerate bracket but it sure beats alt tabbing for 40 minutes then getting into a game and you're also complete zoned out because you took a very long break from your last game and need to warm up again to play your best.

[@petersims411]

I disagree with Pika here. He mentioned first time in Apex he got 1 kill in an hour, but how long would it take to get an arena kill from first downloading WoW? It would be days or weeks until you're levelled and geared enough to get there so I think in terms of accessibility Wow is much harder to break in to. Also the amount you have to keep track of in arena is crazy. There is a lot to keep track of in high end fps shooters but WoW is another level with DRs, cooldowns and set ups. Maybe it's because I'm better at fps than arena but even just to get to something easier like KSM would be harder than to get a foothold in an fps imo.

[@RaimaNd]

Not only too complicated for new player. Even for veterans. Like seriously there is so much nonsens in this game. Billions of mounts, pets, achivements, items, rep, whatever. Also too many abilities. It's blown up. And a lot of good abilities don't exist anymore. Every class can also do everything for many addons now. Knockbacks, kicks, stuns, spints, jumps, it's just too much.

[@TheGreatZehstro]

Mounts/Pets/Achievements and Rep have absolutely nothing to do with the topic of discussion. None of these have any impact on your actual gameplay. Mounts/Pets are miscellaneous and are just collectibles. Achievements are also just another thing for you to go do if you have nothing to go do. Rep hasnt been relevant for a very long time, it has nothing necessary unless you want collectibles/recipes. The game is very plug and play right now. Make your character 1-60 is irrelevant. 60-70 do your campaign. You’re now at end game and gearing is absurdly easy. The only part it gets confusing are the actual mechanics of the game and class abilities. Rep is account shared through all your toons same with mounts pets and achievements.

[@favortingshit]

played wow from vanilla to cata, got glad in cata have played tens of thousands of arena games. i came back for dragonflight and played a couple games of solo shuffle before deciding i cba learning 400 new leap, dash, damage, healing, teleport, and wall cooldowns every single class has now. ill just raid log

[@janah6473]

I bet good money you stopped in wotlk and call yourself now a "veteran".

[@PledgeBass]

I played through all of season 1 of dragonflight - I'm a very competitive person but no matter how hard I tried to get into PVP I just couldn't convince myself to devote all of the time needed to figure out what the actual fuck is going on lol.

[@Pympchimpin]

Its literally just repetition lmao. Play the game and even remotely pay attention and you’ll figure it out. Everyones of the mindset these days of “well why cant they just hold my hand THE ENTIRE TIME so I dont have to do anything myself”. Long gone are the days where looking something up was the FUN part of playing games like WoW. Now its “boohoo I have to use my brain”

[@tone6963]

@@Pympchimpinlowkey tho you right 🤣

[@trivial50]

I don't see how this is different from other games.

[@jixer1495]

No, its not boohoo I have to use my brain. Its I have multiple jobs working 50-60 hours per week and I don't have time to dedicate to making a fully fleshed out and prepared character for end game content or at least the time to dedicate to stick to the curve of the player base that has lots of free time...the least I can get is a mode where everyone is balanced so skill Is the only determining factor in an objective based game mode. No, I join and there's many fully decked out players erasing all of the unprepared characters(skill means very little here) all the time and its overwhelming, discouraging, and boring to say the least. If Bliz wants a more fleshed out community as opposed to elites and average joes primarily than they have to stream line and balance. Not prioritizing our money, but really considering our time spent and our experience quality.

[@trivial50]

@@jixer1495 It takes 5 hours to get a character basically max geared if you queue some 2s/3s. Enormous amounts of free time is not necessary. Time taken to actually get good at the game is not a chore. It is the actual basic content of the game.

[@suficationz4978]

They need to give new players a pre arena obstacle crash course or tutorial where it puts you into a arena with bots and it teaches you basic information such as CC chains using defensives.

[@WhyDidYouChange]

ah yes, make it easier.

[@suficationz4978]

yeah thats the whole point...so more people can actually start arena and not dive head first into the hardest pvp game with 0 guidance and have to look up a million guides to be able to even play.@@WhyDidYouChange

[@JonezBBQ]

@@WhyDidYouChange People like you are exactly why the game is DYING. You gatekeep the community, belittling new players instead of helping them. And then you turn around and wonder why your solo shuffle queues are upwards of 2 hours. You do know that not everyone else has played WoW for the last 20 years and memorized every ability and interaction, right? As if teaching new players the basics and fundamentals of the game is going to impact you in any way whatsoever.

[@WhyDidYouChange]

@@JonezBBQ Whats so bad about learning the game the same way we did? Is it the drop of average intelligent quotia? Attention span? Or maybe, majority of players spent 10+ years learning, and are still learning new things, so it would be better to spoonfeed the experience to new players, rather than have them wander and fish for 4 hours straight, like we used to do? No matter how thin you cook a pancake, there's still two sides

[@trill.willzz]

@@WhyDidYouChangebrain dead take

[@Rothulian]

I think Pika is not understanding the point Venruki made. Venruki isn't comparing the complexity and difficulty of wow vs other games. What Venruki is saying is that just getting properly setup (character, gear, add-ons) takes an eternity in wow. And in other games, all you do is press play and start actually playing.

[@skytears31]

Venruki is 100% right. Hence the low player count and hardly any new players.

[@Vikwak]

Hes not 100% right, he backs up his argument with biased opinions, but he doesnt criticise his argument. If a new player would go right into pvp, first they would need to pay for a sub. Then they would also need to know what their buttons do. If they would die immediately maybe they would quit the game right away. Evrryone I know dont play wow because of the subscription fee. Not about anything else. Wow is about being rewarding in order to keep players satisfied and in order to keep them in the game. To keep paying sub

[@gansta432]

@@Vikwak If you can't afford 15$ a month then you shouldn't be playing video games. You need to manage your finances better and get your life back on track. WoW has saved me money by playing it. I spend hundreds of hours on a game thats 15$ a month compared to buying a game for 70$ and beating it in a week.

[@1994SHOtime]

@@gansta432 Exactly this. 15 a month is $60 in 4 months, which is equal to buying 3 new games per year. It's one of the cheapest games to play outside of F2P, as long as you don't fall into microtransactions

[@Notmytwin]

He’s wrong lol simple youre taking this from a dude who’s been on Diablo for most of the WoW ssn hasn’t even gotten to 2200 yet. He catering to the toxic shitters who are hard stuck and will just complain instead of get better lol

[@ztrain8256]

@@Notmytwin lmao "toxic shitters"

[@OutlandishOW]

I started WoW this year, if you have the right friends helping it’s really not that hard to start learning.

[@devvn4671]

what do you main?

[@milten76]

I started this year too and you dont even need to friends. Getting gear is so easy.

[@LegitOoter]

whats you 2v2 arena rating ? what class are u playin ? im playing wow since start with some gaps for some time breaks. and stil lcant say im a monster at pvp. im playing sub rogue now on WOTLK. you need about few years to get good at pvp. at least you are not playing 100 arena matches every day at least for a 100 days. PVE is for dummies in wow. dont compare it to arena ). its deferent world.

[@milten76]

@@LegitOoter the game isnt balanced around 2v2.

[@Checkem]

I was using Omnicd in M+ but it broke when i started playing pvp. It makes it hard AF but i also now know the sound of a lot of abilities. i wish it would just work but it isn't terrible

[@Shandalarian]

For 3v3 you might not need all those addons if you have voice coms and a vocal team, but you need most of them.... And then for shuffle you need Sarena and the omni combo for sure... and the healer cc alert... If you think you dont its because you forgot what its like to play at those levels... and while top players know what to look for and dont need so many addons, the same cannot be said of the casual players.

[@rileykuhl8011]

I think the CS comp is great to show the difference. I stopped playing WoW and jumped on CS and the difference of the learning curve is way different. If you get a Smurf in CS, yeah you’ll have a bad time, but that doesn’t happen that often. The amount of things to know in WoW to be good at PVP is 1,000 times more. Unless 1200 is your goal in 3s.

[@Boss-ot1iy]

Try to strive for Faceit lvl 10. You'll think differently

[@dyner2369]

@@Boss-ot1iy faceit lvl 10 isnt all that difficult

[@Boss-ot1iy]

@dyner2369 Lmao. You definitely don't know rankings then wow kid. Faceit 10 is right below fpl

[@dyner2369]

@@Boss-ot1iy if you think 2k elo is "right below fpl", then you're just delulu

[@Boss-ot1iy]

@dyner2369 it's literally right below it lol. Watch Simple against other faceit 10 players and he's in fpl. You'd know this shit if you actually played the game or even kept up with it shitter

[@TramRide]

Interesting to hear Pika's understanding (or lack of) regarding other video games. If you have never played ranked in League and then play it... you'll end up in games with 'icon clickers' and children - you WILL win 50% of your games. The same cannot be said for WoW

[@sel6325]

I tried start with leauge. Got flamed for being this Bad in 3 Games in a row and quit after. Its Not ez to start with lol today

[@blahblahgdp]

I quit league ranked season 1 because I saw their bullshit MMR system right away. They are not afraid to put you with absolute new players to tank you're MMR to keep you in that state of flux so you keep coming back, or you just quit

[@mio7452]

Got a shit ton of time in league and my friends tried to start it recently. It's super toxic because to level to ranked you will meet so many smurfs that shit talk you after not giving you a single chance cus they just know spacing

[@eduardoburgosacosta243]

​​​@@mio7452 ye but they need to wait 3 month to level and 1 month to gear 3 month learning other characters, to be the same toxic shit as wow, they went to the Game took a look and then quit, as for wow You have to spend all that time and then quit cuz, queue to long, solo shuffle so toxic, bg is full of premade overgeared.! And You getting oneshotted Even with all the gear from bg, and let me tell You, not being able to play the Game till your fully gear is a fuking pain.!! SO yes a good intelligent person Will always choose to play any other Game that let You play with your friend Even if they have a long time in that Game already, cuz those types of Game is not base on gear or grinding, and in wow while You farm you get demolish while doing so.! By some premade bully overgeared farming You at the cementary.

[@arod_goated]

you will also end up in games with literal bots on you team that dont press buttons meaning you will have to 4v5 while in a rank where the 3 other people on your team also dont really know what they are doing, on top of that in order to play ranked you have to get to level 30 first if you play the draft mode or now quickplay mode they dont care about MMR nearly as much and as a brand new player you could get matched up against someone that is in diamond, for example the 2023 world champs like 2 weeks after winning worlds played a normals game with the champs they were planning to get their skins on, since riot give out team skins if you win worlds, the other team in their normals game not a single player was above the rank of plat

[@ttt69420]

It's not complicated you just need high and efficient apm. You have to actually learn what other classes can do. It's not accessible at 2k, but it shouldn't be accessible at 2k. Honestly, it's less complicated now despite the increase of abilities. The game has gotten easier not harder. And they fixed the gearing issues that made everyone under 2.2 stuck in a perpetual disadvantage for 3 months of the season because of conq cap and t2 weps. The game is simpler.. no borrowed power, no t2, no conq cap increase. More abilities doesn't mean it's more difficult. Like, the game is straight up simpler to be decent at. You can get level 80 and full honor gear in a single sleepless night if you wanted to - it's never been like that before even back to cata. talent builds, general strats, positioning, addons, etc have never been more instantly accessible than right now. literally all u need is omnibar and sarena and a willingness to not get handed 2.2 for free or just roll a feral.

[@TayaYoung04]

One of the saddest things that ever happened to me in wow was: I got my wife to play an evoker. We queued the first week the class was out (in DF prepatch), I was excited for her to try it. It was a heroic random queue for uldaman. And the pug was such an asshole to her, said she "shouldn't be queuing heroic without knowing her class", she never played again. Again, this was a heroic lfg..where on earth else would she learn prevoker if not in a dungeon >_

[@xZaGoNx]

Similar thing happened to my wife. I’m sorry to hear that. Wow community is so toxic to new players.

[@baro6447]

this is why most of my friends quit too.

[@TayaYoung04]

@@baro6447 =( sad. I play high-ish keys myself and I try my best to help people in a meaningful /constructive way without being mean. I am sorry that your friends left because of the toxicity.

[@leechking2476]

Well… why didn’t you que for a normal dungeon first😭😭

[@leechking2476]

@@datemike1184 agreed. Should’ve had her heal normal dungeons atleast for a few days and get gear before trying a heroic

[@TheOnlyTRob]

I started wow in shadowlands for the first time ever. The learning curve was Insane and PvE was so boring but shitting on someone in PvP was sick. I played hunter at first until I kept getting shit on from rogues, then I found pika and palumor and learned as much as I could and then found a mage and we became good friends using voice and after months of grinding and learning we hit 1950 in 2s and it was the most amazing feeling. Then I went to hit 1950 on my hunter, a warrior, mage, and feral. But none of my IRL friends want to put in any time to even level let along grind and learn pvp. It’s a real shame. Shouldn’t have to be forced to jump through so many hoops to just pvp. I hope solo ques pop, and I’m down as fuck for no addons

[@trivial50]

That is good progress, well done.

[@Doomon15]

Honestly another huge improvement to soloque in my opinion is PLEASE add RBGs solo que too, that rated ladder has also been corrupted by the same arena disease of exclusive group ques who single out everyone else and obliterate the competition, it’s becoming less and less fun if you don’t have gladiators helping carry your group. Solo que needs to solve many problems but I feel it also needs to expand past its boundaries if it is expected to have more potential in its longevity, give us RBG solo ques!

[@WeirdGamerName69]

ayo 👀

[@Th3_a_g4m3]

We come from the future, solo queue rbg’s will be a thing

[@Doomon15]

XD ikr, Dude I was happy af they announced that, def gonna be an improvement to the PvP community@@Th3_a_g4m3

[@Choryrth]

42 minutes in, and yeah the gap between top level play, and "average" play, is immense. something this guy doesn't seem to get, is that players getting into the game, aren't playing "top level play". getting into the game is easy, the gameplay is really simple, all classes are easy to understand (some more than others, clearly), so on and so forth. there are issues, big ones, notably with just how much content there is, and the almost complete lack of direction the game gives. but playing classes isn't the issue in getting people into the game. i think the largest issues are, like you've said, people, including those playing it, constantly talking shit about it, AND the people playing it. and the fact that it's very overwhelming to get into a game, and have literally multiple worlds worth of content in front of you, and the game basically just says "go for it".

[@remantin]

i hope you do more react content. you are a smart charismatic guy, you are made for this

[@Haonnn]

pro wow player turned react andy? idk man

[@StrobeFireStudios]

​@@Haonnnafter 1 reaction he's a react andy? Grow up

[@bubsenseijebe2993]

He does analyze and communicate everything way way better than anyone else in the community for sure. With humor too. Dudes really the goat of wow

[@ztrain8256]

@@bubsenseijebe2993 eh, xar is right there

[@kurisechan88]

React is the meta

[@bg-meet]

I will add one more thing. I am a new player. I've been playing for a few months. I find players very toxic, and not only that. No one is helping you. If by any chance you are with someone in a group, PvP and you make a mistake, they just kick you out. Probably WoW players were born taught how to play and the others are not worthy of attention.

[@zargisan9017]

Pika it’s 100% normal to have a lot of Addons even at low rating. I played without Addons when I first got into arena a couple years ago but then I saw some KZbin videos because I wanted to get past 1500 and they all say to get Addons. There’s so much that goes into retail WoW. The biggest problem with the game in my opinion is that you can’t tell what’s going on. There so many buttons and abilities and passives in the game and it’s impossible to know what’s happening unless you’ve played the game for a long time and you have Addons.

[@rahundsigma]

i get 1800 no problem with just bigdebuffs

[@evoly9765]

​@@rahundsigmawell 1.8 is nothing And now in shuffle times its even easier to Hit 1.8 just to olay PvE in the lobby I always played alone even before shuffle And See mate And enemie cooldowns i want. Increased my rating from Stuck 2200 to glad Its a huge difference

[@rahundsigma]

@evoly9765 what addons do you use? Are they called 'see mate' and 'enemy cooldowns'? Ima check em out

[@ppsarrakis]

also the issue with wow is that "low rating" means nothing sometimes,you will go against +++ teams gettting boosted/RMT.... this is the elephant in the room that he ofc wont address...

[@Dergonu]

I think you're kind of missing the point. Yes there is a huge skill difference if you join an FPS as a new player. But in wow, there is a time gate with leveling, then when you finally get max level and you can PvP, there is an objective disadvantage with your gear, skill and UI all at once. If you don't have at least bare minimum of addons, you're at a disadvantage. You don't have PvP gear, so vs ppl who do you're at a disadvantage. Then there is the skill diff that is present in other games. That's the problem with wow PvP. In other games, you just work on the skill as you play. If I play an FPS, my guns won't be doing lower dmg to you because you've played longer. They do the same damage. In wow, you have so many layers to it, and that's really intimidating for new players. Having better gear literally makes you stronger, putting new players at an objective disadvantage from the start.

[@lucasmorgan4379]

Such a good way of wording the issue, took my feelings on the issue and put into words👌

[@ALIGHTFORTHEWORLD]

While I 100% agree with counterstrike and how you wouldn't be able to even get a kill, your at least still playing the game mode you want to play. IN wow, theres hour supon hours of content you are forced to play before even having the option to play arenas. AND THEN theres barriers like gear and teammates. Big difference.

[@nickpurdy69]

yeah he completely missed the point there and was trying to compare his experience as a professional player to what it would take to be a professional in an FPS. I don't think he was thinking about the casual Andy there.

[@Boss-ot1iy]

Well if you wanna play comp, you gotta hit a certain level in cs and then you gotta WIN 10 games to even get your placement. So if you wanna play comp in cs then you're not able to just get on it and play the mode you wanna play

[@DarkDiDi]

31:40 Lmao! I'm really impressed by how casually he can say that. His composure already proves how strong he is beyond just his skills.

[@dj_jx]

@DarkDiDi Really ? Put him on new game then u will see the difference.

[@Cirosh]

I think PvP gearing is better than ever and honor gear being only 13 ilvl behind conquest gear makes PvP much more accessible

[@abcdgump616]

bfa was fine, no one died because tanks were viable (never should be) and healer output was insane, healers were the issue. ssn 1 bfa was actually fine.

[@jjmacdaddy1]

You hit it Pika I am 44 years old and have been playing wow since Wotlk. I go to work 12 hrs a day and come home and try to play I don’t want it to be like a second job so I play casual plus I have come to terms that I won’t ever be at the top b/c my awareness and reactions r not what they used to be. So I have went back to play Wotlk a slower pace more laid back. Now my kid said she does not like classic b/c it is to slow so she likes retail so they r to me headed in the right direction for the younger generation but they need to keep working to crack down on the toxic/jerks/trolls or they will run them off.

[@wisniamw]

46:15 the difference is most of the buttons are pointless to click/are clicked in very particular scenarios (you go aoe? press this, you go single? press that). while a lot of the spells they removed were quite fun and uniformly somehow useful

[@LordoftheWarcraft]

I agree with so much of what you said man. I wish you could get your points into other of the bigger creators heads. You are so right about the negativity and toxicity. It has long been my opinion that the "old guard" that have direct contact with devs have pushed the game into bad directions over the years, and no willingness to change. I appreciate this video and speaking your truth.

[@abcdgump616]

another issue is the entire game is played and decided around burst cooldowns and "goes", most of the playerbase does not like or enjoy this, you need more pve damage and less stacking buffs/ damage amplifiers. people can claim its more skill as it is now but its not, its boring and feeds the zoomer brain from the dopamine hits when wow was built on the slower paced gameplay with longer TTKs that involved a real back and forth and actual counterplay existing due to people not losing 20% or more of their hp in a global.

[@saewels]

Im a new player myself, bought the game about 6 months ago and coming from guild wars all I can say is that WoW comunity is... just weird. How can someone love and hate a game so much at the same time? It is a great game but some content creators really need to chill, Im so tired of tier list and stuff like that. Just play what its fun for you unless you are a WFR raider 😂

[@bradyvilhauer4445]

This is huge actually, thanks for your perspective. I very, very much agree. So much rage for a video game, yet such a dedicated following. For an optional video game. People need to remember it’s fun, and act like it, or they need to quit! It’s like they are stuck

[@malator7763]

We had a 55 y/o guy who mainly played New World and Mortal Online 2 come join a few of us on WoW SoD, this was his first time ever playing WoW in general. He would get on youtube and watch WoW videos on how to play and he was getting mad flustered on how many addons he was told he needs and was super confused on how to set it all up. Myself and a few others told him to ignore that crap, gave him 3 addons that would give him some QoL and showed him how to set it up and then told him to play the game how he wanted to. Dude is now enjoying the piss out of the game and can't get him off it. Moral of the story, just play the game. It's really good, don't mind the people who tell you what you need to do. Do what you want to do and I assure you, you'll enjoy it.

[@Sandy-Texas-]

I have been playing wow for more years than I want to mention and I agree.. noobs come on thinking it will be a breeze and they never really gear up before they give up. All the pros even ven himself make it seem easy.. I'm a pvper only so let me say it is not easy and i seldom do arenas.. I love bg's and world pvp. it's a struggle to gear.. didn't used to be.. I dislike the direction pvp has gone, and I don't want to do pve.. Ven has a grip on how the average player feels. Pika I think your so beyond the average player you don't see it.

[@abcdgump616]

the player base is negative because the overall portion of the playerbase doesnt play the fotm rogue mage lock specs and warrior sometimes (mainly rogue lock) id wager ud be pretty upset if sub was as awful as havoc has been all of SL and most of DF, or if rogue in general was as reliably mediocre as dk was/has been for awhile. not to mention the silly fast times to kill atm cause people to rage even more with trying to figure why they died before being able to react. its unfun, and has been since post BFA.

[@stever8669]

With the original release there was a lot of stuff to learn but also lots of content to enjoy and fewer changes to classes. Compare that with today and the improvements/nerfs/mechanic changes etc that happen constantly, and instead of incremental improvements that can be worked on over time, there are sweeping alterations that don't allow for any anything other than devoting more time to stay current and competitive. Throw in all the add-ons and the game is no longer for the casual gamer logging on for an hour or so every so often. I remember the satisfaction I used to get from getting gear that gave me just an incremental tiny improvement. Now nothing you play for is meaningful because its all rapidly transient and making any effort is pointless because it will be worthless very quickly. It was nice knowing I could do something over time that would eventually be meaningful and help me in other parts of the game for a while. Even grinding for something was okay because the reward would be good for a while at least. Anyway - the game isn't going back there so at least I have some good memories LOL.

[@RaimaNd]

The good thing about CS tho is you can just install the game and queue up. Everyone starts with the same baseline gear and money. Queue time is also quite short. Of course you can also spend tenthousands of hours into the game min maxing everything but for new player and those who got no time for that we have other game modes or silver/gold nova rank. The humps to get into WoW 3v3 arena are insane. For a new player it takes weeks to level and gear. They know nothing about anything and in WoW the most important skillset is knowledge. Also not sure but wouldn't 3v3 3xdps solo shuffle be cool? Nowadays any class can heal anyway and it would heavily reduce the q time.

[@iiRaWDaWG]

They need to have a permanent arena tourney server with max lvl and good gear

[@Sebastianmol7]

Agreed. Maybe you need a max level character to access it or something, but an accessible tourney realm would make PvP so much more... Accessible.

[@roryrory3602]

supatease has great ideas around this topic.

[@iiRaWDaWG]

@@Sebastianmol7 they use to have one back in the day. It was legit idk what happened.

[@Undertaker257]

They literally dont, you can ready your character for pvp in less than 24h playtime, and this is an rpg afterall. Stop propagating instant gradification! For fuck sake gearing is so fast in dragonflight that i for the first time have like 5x same class and i work full time

[@iiRaWDaWG]

@@Undertaker257 not everyone plays dragon flight. So gear a char on bc in 24hr. Highly doubtful

[@1994jcourtney]

Has any streamer talked about the possibility of making solo shuffle only being dps if no healers are online to reduce que times? However, when two healers are available, the game prioritizes having the 2dps and 1 healer teams.

[@driuling]

Idk man but he explained his view of it so well

[@Impossibly-Possible]

WoW is so hard to get into because you will play on your own leveling up and when you get to max you will get into the worst arguments with people and get owned by everyone in regular battlegrounds and RBG you wont get invited. And trying to get gear while getting destroyed every game and worse if you end up horde your screwed.

[@Miridafeo]

I laughed waaaay to hard at that im a professional gamer and half asian LMAO

[@morotsburgare]

The solo format is the future of wow arena, but not nessecarily through shuffle. I've been promoting a groupmaking system based off the 2v2 and 3v3 bracket that would add to or replace LFG. Instead of listing a group and have anyone sign up, you would mark yourself as your preferred spec and your preferred teammates' spec. For example, I main surv hunt and enjoy mostly jungle and thug and will therefore search for ferals, sub rogues and disc/holy priests, which means if there is a feral/sub rogue and a disc/holy that has marked surv hunt + feral/sub rogue then the game would put us together in a party and let us queue 3s as if we just formed a group through LFG. So far I honestly think this is as close to a flawless groupmaking system as we can get. I'll happily answer any questions about this idea

[@dongy762]

As a returning arena player who brought a bunch of new friends to WoW with them, Ven is absolutely right.

[@gamest0pkidd]

In an age where everyone wants to be Pikaboo or faker or s1mple there is going to be a high standard for "competition". in every sport and competition everyone who wants to be someone takes every edge they can get without out right cheating. I feel like everyone always talks about the game competitively do you honesly think a cause who just boots up the game ot kill lowbies in town or queues 3 games of bg's on his twink or something needs to have add ons... no. the real question i feel like people need to ask is why are people taking these games so serious... its a matter of: you wana be competitive? then you need to do this excel spread shit of things to have a chance to be better then 1% of players. if you are not being competitive then just play the game its not that deep....

[@Gulliedoutbigup]

You could basically 'log in and play' during MoP. The amount of people I got to start playing was stupid lol and it was easy for them to learn. now, when I don't play for a patch, I feel like I don't wanna play as there's so much I need to catch up with and do lol i couldnt imagine being a new player.

[@luff675]

Its really easy to make friends if youre a chill person. When i came back after a 12 yr break, i knew one person. Now i have a friends list of 75 with legit people who are 1400 all the way to 2.8k exp . LFG was new for me (quit in mop s1) and I loved it

[@d.j.9739]

To be decent at WOW PvP you do have to do everything Venruki said and get some years of practice. Good PvPers take for grated all the knowledge they know about the game such as it's classes, specs, comps exedra. To be good at an FPS or MOBA, play a couple of months if even that and you are good to go! Pikas comparison of what you have to do to be pro at an FPS is the equivalent of what you need to do to not be horrible at WOW PvP. So not horrible vs pro, but same amount of work, ruffly. :P

[@Boss-ot1iy]

If you don't want to be horrible at any fps game, you have to put years, lol. Fps games are far more complex than wow. So many people hit 2100 in arena. Good luck hitting faceit 10 in cs, let alone fpl. Which is r1 in wow. The best players in the world play fps games and not wow

[@sah_sook]

@@Boss-ot1iy ?? for fps games you only need to practice your aim and get good game sense to be good at it. To be good at WoW you need to do a ton of research about the game to learn how to get the best gear, best ruins, best stats which can take hours to understand or even days since it just mind boggles you, then you need to grind gear which may take months to get, then you need to install 4387929532 addons which may actually take days or even weeks to get used to those addons since theres just a bunch of stuff on your screen which you don't even understand, then you need to know every single class ability in the game, every single class debuff/buff so that youre able to pvp, just so that when you go into arena you don't get one shotted. And youre telling me FPS games are more complex than WoW? LOOOL, the only people who play WoW are the people who have been playing for years, it takes years to get good at wow, it takes months to get good at an fps game. You also have to learn what every ability does and how theres 20 buttons on your screen that you have to press as well

[@yohimbe2673]

@@sah_sookagreed

[@BirdmanPB]

Holy cow, totally underselling how much stuff is going on at a given time in an arena match. That's like wayne gretzky saying "I don't know...hockey's not that hard, just score hundreds of goals"

[@aurisama]

It's not really an issue of it being complicated gameplay wise, it's just not straight forward enough to simply play the game so the barrier to entry is incredibly high. Pika mentions Counter-strike, and how a new player wouldn't get a kill because it's complicated like WoW, which is true, but the difference from WoW is the fact that a new player immediately has a chance to at least *try*, you simply download the game, which is free, and press the competitive button, it's as simple as that. In WoW's case if you want to try competitive PVP, like Venruki said, you have to buy the game, pay a subscription, make a character, level that character, build that characters talents, gear that character, and then find players to play with or wait in solo shuffle for 30 minutes, as well as understand add-ons. You can see the issue here for new players.

[@NemisisRecords]

No, csgo also has requirements to play competitive. It's less time required, but what would someone expect of an MMO? Nobody picking up WoW or any other MMO on planet earth is thinking "Hmm i want this mmo, i hope i can play ranked pvp the second i download it" People have incredibly fake expectations of what they THINK new players feel, when people like Ven haven't spoken to any real number of "new" players on the topic. This game handholds you all the way to current content, something nearly no other MMO if even any other MMO does. WoW isn't complicated or too complex. We were all new at some point and worked our way from there. New players will always go through the same thing because it's all new to them! Also as someone with thousands of CSGO under the belt. It's far more difficult to get "good" at cs than it is WoW pvp. We talk about "what is all of this" in terms of addons, but don't mention that the addons literally take away 90% of the complexity 🤣 the game plays itself!

[@mccoyrj452]

Addons also keep the game from being console accessible. That is one thing FF14 is adamant about policing and maintaining. They value their ability to have console players on controllers in all content. Addons have made the UI design and raid design really lazy or hyper focused on designing around it existing, both of which are bad.

[@donut_s]

So many good points made by Pika in this vid. Normal people aren’t min maxing with all these addons and rotation stuff and still get 95% of their performance. The negative stigma and downers around the game are the main reason that new people aren’t playing. Also never considered how much I put into my fps gaming when I do that (setup, peripherals, settings, etc.). Something which people don’t bring up at all is that you probably need to play for 20-30 hours in any of these games to unlock ranked which is the “main mode”. Easily could level and gear a character in less than 10h in WoW.

[@blaneu]

Pika's wrong in this one. When he mentions peripherals, arm placement, etc., it is just over the top. All you need to touch and enjoy an fps game is a mouse and keeb which don't even need to be good ones. As fir 10 hours to level and gear a character? Lmao. No new player is even leveling to 70 in 10 hours man. Wow is just harsh to new players just as other games of the genre.

[@empressqiyanaa6196]

You have to already be very good to get 95% of your performance in any aspect of the game without addons

[@ppsarrakis]

@@empressqiyanaa6196 yep most people get 80%....

[@Retsu_nightcore]

The ironic thing is: that all that stuff in the Raids and Dungeons that increases the complexity over the addons depends on the fact that DBM had such an massive influence on the gameplay as it appears over the time that Blizz was forced to creates more complex Dungeons and Raids what on the other hand means that u need the AddOn more then before and its all a circle of hell. For me personally, i would also prefer to increase the UI Options from Blizz themself and ban all those addons like in FF14. For me PvP in some points are totally ridiculous, i'm able to track f*cking everything, all CD's of the enemys, the addons tell me when someones pop up in my back and even if i didn't notice it personally i'm able to counter everything while i still showing the enemy my back. I can track the whole Enemy Suqad on the BG and where their going, Experience and strategies in the game are invariably subordinated to the AddOns and that is a great pity.

[@shawn9922]

I think gear difference in pvp is a big stopper for most people. I would jump on a healer an Q right now if I didn't have to grind out gear for the next 2 weeks.

[@MrTreefrog98]

its crazy to me that it used to be almost 1000% harder back in slands

[@jaycooney405]

Lmao it takes 2 days of bgs and a little gold to get 447 ilvl in arena. Get good kid.

[@MrTreefrog98]

@@jaycooney405 man not this vid mentioning how negative the wow playerbase is and you typing this shit out. do better

[@Miridafeo]

Two weeks? You can grind a full set of blue honor gear and be ilvl 434 in a day.

[@eNv3n0mX]

Bruh, it used to be months

[@СтаниславДмитриев-ы5б]

Lol, when I was a kid, we didn’t have such many vids on KZbin or this amount of tutorials on internet. And we played WOW, we were learning it day by day. We were enjoying levelling and were really surprised by end-game content. We discovered key bindings, macros, addons and the other on our own, no one told us we have such options. We didn’t have any centralised repo and downloaded addons manually from different websites. On top of that there was no localisation and game itself was way less newbe friendly (no quest helper, mounts required higher level, no portals, higher cd on hearthstones). And we were enjoying playing game and our discoveries within.

[@shieldslam5936]

Sitting in 1600 with BiS for content and currency is what ruins pvp.

[@shieldslam5936]

But bans in twitch chat when asked why

[@itsdragonboi5824]

You know why I left WOW and went back to LOL? Because I miss Cataclism and its simplicity. The newest version of WOW is really too complicated especially for non-native English speakers. It's a dead-end circle with WOW. If you are not geared you can't find a good partner and if you don't have a good partner you can't win in arena and get geared. IT'S JUST FRUSTRATING AND ANNOYING. And I used to LOVE WOW. I mean I went back to WOW last year and I lasted only 2 months. It's really shetting on my mood. I have to stop living and literally spend 24/7 in this game to have a chance to do something. I was ellite in Cata and now I can't pass 2K cause I have no stupid gear which I can get only with a good healer which is impossible to find without a better rating. LOLon the other hand shows your real skills, whithout kids running around missing skills-shots and yet one-shotting you cause they are loaded with gear.

[@MIngalls]

To help healers, blizzard should impliment something that tells DPS when it was their fault haha. Something pops on screen "you died with wall".... "you LOS'd your healer while they were CC'd"... "dont grief the healer, you know what you did"

[@Kassadinftw]

I haven't pvp'd for a long time but always enjoyed the gear grind and bg stuff, which exposes you to many of the classes/abilities you'll be dealing with in Arena.

[@hashiro786]

The only solution i see to fix solo queue is adding healer bots that would replace a player, but it's weird in a ranked match and wont happen. Having a matchmaking system that depend on having a player to play something that most people dont like is the issue there.

[@endsage2163]

Either way, the barrier to entry for WoW competitive PvP is much bigger than most other games. I think that's pretty clear.

[@Cortanuh]

The difference is that in other games you don't have to be accepted into a group to play competitive team content. You can queue as a group or you can queue into a group as an individual. To play competitive group content in WoW you have to "apply" to a group and the leader inspects your gear score and your pvp rating and then accepts or denies you. That is a WoW thing. I have played Overwatch and Apex at a Masters level and solo queued many nights that my friends weren't on or we didn't have a full team and don't have to apply to a group in order to play games. Most people would never get into an fps game if they couldn't queue solo and had to apply to a group and the group could see their KD and win percentage. There's absolutely no shot. I play WoW now and, as a new player, I have a 420 iLvl gear score and am doing high key mythics and raiding and I'm doing no worse than other players in my group who have been playing WoW for 15 years. But if it weren't for my brother who is 2000+ pvp rating and KSM in every season getting me into these groups, I'd never have a chance to do anything in WoW and that's a 100% fact. I'd never have gotten the opportunity to gear up and do the content if I wasn't tagging along with the person doing the highest dps in the instance. No way in hell.

[@ppsarrakis]

"KSM in every season getting me into these groups, I'd never have a chance to do anything in WoW and that's a 100% fact." not really,you just need to start from +5 on all dungeons,then move up 1 mythic on everything, will take 10 times longer than getting boosted tho....

[@Cortanuh]

​@@ppsarrakis That is literally my point. There is no version of reality where I want to regular dungeons and then progress to a 1 key then a 2 key etc for all content just to be able to do content that doesn't make me fall asleep. I turned level 70 and then queued into a 11 key as my first WoW dungeon with a 393 iLvl. We timed it. I was doing on average the same dps as everyone else. I'm not "boosted" either. I pay attention while my brother tells me the mechanics, I do them, I press my buttons.

[@gilgameshxt]

I like wow!Probably becouse I paly with my brother and we have watched the movie,and been playin off and on since mop!

[@89mso]

I really enjoyed playing WoW, I’ve played since release of villa, quit in cata and started playing again about a month into DF. While totally different than what I was used to playing, the strategic game play of PvP was fun getting back into. I quit again at start of 10.1. There’s a laundry list of issues with the game, but having so many fotm rerollers is tiresome, especially when you wait 45minutes for a queue to pop. I used to complain how long the grind was to level and gear a toon, but I miss that now. The ability to go from 1 to max level and be fully geared in a week made fotm rerollers way to easy. Also I was frustrated with the embellished gear bullshit. I tried for two weeks to figure out how to get the embellished gear, and for some classes it’s essentially mandatory. Also wayyyy to much going on with cc and interrupts, I wish they just released a game like wotlk but with solo shuffle. Remember when holy pallys had ice block and mages had ice block? Now hunters have a bubble essentially, same with rogues, resto seuids (tranq), dhs with the flying bullshit, shamans with burrow, and I’m sure I’m missing a few.. Oh well, I doubt I’ll play again but we’ll see.

[@toner01]

when i started playing wow arena by far the hardest part was reading my ui + addons, and knowing enemy spells and capabilities. nothing else compares to the learrning curve of that

[@beingofstrange]

naw naw, you dont need all those settings for fps games for an average player. in wow you DO need *most* pvp addons to compete vs the average players because the average players have been playing on/off for like 15+ years. 1600 players have been playing since 2010 and know everything about every class, despite being "bad"

[@TheDescender4]

I totally agree with both Venruki and Pika, but I do think Pika is underestimating the perspective the PvE side of the community has on what constitutes an acceptable level of play. I am a multi CE raider and 3k M+ player for many seasons and the reality is that I will not get invited to pug raids/dungeons that are well below my item/skill level because of community discrimination. And to make things even worse, the PvE side of the LFG community simply has no patience for any mistakes. People will get kicked from normal pug raids for doing poor dps, week 2 of the tier players are expected to know all boss mechanics and never fail them or risk getting kicked or having their group implode cause all the experienced players are too impatient. Lastly, if you believe PvP queues are dead later into the tier, well PvE doesn't even have a queuing system for dungeons and is even more dead since you need both a healer and a tank instead of only a healer.

[@georgeindestructible]

41:33 this is why we need add-ons or to integrate their functionality in the game, like clique, and to some extend just for CDs you can take everything else away, anything else that it's not cosmetic or adds non-combat functionality i mean and i am probably fine for the most part but add-ons are not really the main issue right now

[@Rubyhunter1]

Yo Pika, at 38:15 when u say thats not the issue that rotations are WAAY too much, but solo q not popping is the issue. Well, the REASON FOR SOLO Q NOT POPPING IS BECAUSE HEALER ROTATIONS ARE FUCKING INSANE AND DO NOT HEAL. Like as resto druid you have to use lifebloom on yourself to make ticks go faster and use 4 different hots ALONG rejuvs to do ANY healing. Come on man. And if you dont do healer rotation perfectly, your dps dies and flames you in lobby.

[@darijanjamak2632]

Its more that pvp is complicated to become competitive. Wow is a pve game first and is pretty casual friendly in this regard. This is true for most games that are PVE focused, its usually not super easy to get into the pvp niche of it

[@mrdicelucky528]

I sat here and asked myself, what has changed. 1. Playing with your friend isn’t the same as before, just being together and playing was an accomplishment. If you aren’t to the same caliber or on the same level of content via BG or arenas or high mythics, the friend you’re playing with is “wasting their time” no one is happy to just play with their friend it’s all objective based and if it doesn’t correlate to their objective they have no time for you.

[@mrdicelucky528]

And whether it’s because we are all adults now and we don’t have all the time in the world I understand but it used to be rare just playing with your friends vs it’s so now it’s so frequent it’s forcing us to always have to be pursuing the objective.

[@ronaldwestbeal2269]

I think you need better friends my friends and I play with each other in mythics and raid even if we aren’t the same besides I don’t need to run high keys all the time I need to do lower ones for the fragments

[@grahamvandyke]

So I know what attracted me to playing WoW for the first time in 2005 watching my college dorm mate fly around Azeroth on a flight path was the sheer size and scale of the game; it is MASSIVE. People who start playing WoW become completely immersed in the complexity of it all and can't wait to explore everything. Looking towards playing at the end game is actually not a high priority for new players I imagine.

[@empressqiyanaa6196]

That’s true. The first time I played, I spent months leveling and just discovering the massive world (it wasn’t even back then when leveling would take a lot of time, i just didn’t care about reaching endgame, exploring the areas and just walking around, sometimes talking to NPCs and doing quests was so fun)

[@grahamvandyke]

@@empressqiyanaa6196 The true magic of WoW is the entire world and all the people you meet along the way. The end game is actually just the cherry on the cake.

[@davew2040x]

You have to get hooked on WoW and then SERIOUSLY COMMIT to arenas for it to even start being compelling. Everybody who’s not deeply invested will invariably just bounce off of PvP because you spend so much time just getting totally annihilated for unknown reasons, even at low CR, before you start to see patterns in what’s going on.

[@mshepherd324]

@@davew2040x i think also, a good portion of people that are willing to tolerate that experience and make it out the other side are aso returning players, not new. i quit(ish) in wod and im currently in the position youve described, but the only reason i stick around to actually learn it is because ive done it before and felt the reward.

[@perceptoshmegington3371]

Venruki's point is valid if you're considering that a new player can only enjoy the game if they hit the top ranks of arena PVP. Plenty people can just log in and play and enjoy the game for what it is without competing at the AWC.

[@dexteerz]

How to resolve much of this complexity: transform all continuous damage (dots) into singular types, that is, Vampiric + Unstable would be a DOT SHADOW (stackavel or something along those lines, becoming a single stack, so I don't need to know that the DOT Vampiric is from Priest and Unstable is from Lock). Another thing is to do the same thing with CC's, if I give a rogue STUN, it's the same thing as a pala stun, as it's the same thing as a warrior stun, etc... This way it's easy to know when you're stunned regardless of the class and ease of knowing which skills besides DR's. "Ah, but the pala stun is magical and the rogue stun is physical, you can't dispel it...", fuck it, it does 2 different stuns, one magical and one physical. good!

[@Zeronotion]

They should just give people the option to opt into triple dps mirrors in solo shuffle. That might help with lowering the waiting times and make it optional for people that always wanna play with healers.

[@bulutreisbaydar1681]

I can't believe how nobody is talking about subscription fee being the main problem of accesibility. Even if the person has the financial freedom to pay for it every month its still not a great long term game to play. ( also pretty bad game for short term mainly because you have to buy expansion too) I recently started playing Battlefield games. I bought the Xbox game pass and I have access to every BF game. I play one of them to try out the game features and customized my classes but when I decided to play another BF game I just didn't care about customizition and just played which didn't change the fact that I had fun without changing anything about the game let alone addons.

[@KitPatron]

There are games that I like to watch like League of legends it is clear what is going on cool to see whan someone does some high level playing... but I don't like to play it anymore. And I hate watching WoW gameplay cuz I don't understand what is going on, who is winning... but I like playing WoW myself. The gameplay is great.

[@sandorvargas4155]

Blizzard could make a server "World of Warcraft Arena" same as WoW classic servers, select a class/race and q arenas with your friends or lfg (not gear needed)

[@Kevmoeman]

i think its ok to make damaging/healing easier in pvp is because theres so much shit going on, its ok to have the ez mode damage build the one to use in pvp just to help people pay attention to whats going on beside whats happening with their character

[@ervinurdanetabravo3883]

You mean, make boring?

[@xZaGoNx]

This video hits so hard. I tried to get so many friends to try to play wow to play arena with me. They ALL quit because of how much time it takes to even start playing the game… now I also quit because none of my friends play. I picked up Street Fighter 6. I bought the game, don’t pay a monthly sub, and can play ranked on an equal playing field as everyone else immediately. Wow needs to make arena more accessible or it will die soon.

[@bertreynolds8146]

I can play MW2 and immediately dominate or be competitive, without any setup or mods. Can't do that with WoW, need to understand 50k spells and debuffs, not to mention the gear and talents.

[@herrpdurrp]

For fps games you really don't need to adjust anything. Your monitor settings translate among all of them, the only thing you need to adjust is mouse sensitivity and you're good to go. I've been playing wow since vanilla, and I recently had a friend get into wow for the first time. He was insanely overwhelmed and if he didn't have us to walk him through it all he would have quit 100%. Even if he watched hours worth of youtube videos to figure out addons, spec, gearing + stats, stats, the 30 min shuffle queues and lack of io/arena achieves would prevent him from playing the game.

[@ppsarrakis]

i just stopped watching when he started about how many settings an fps gamer has to change... lol "vsync" ,not even the slightest comparable.

[@Tkzlol]

I just don't think any mmo is going to let you just log in and play the game at the level you're watching on streams or videos if you're a newer player. MMO's just require a decent amount of setup vs say a FPS game that you can just log in queue and let your natural aiming skills carry you. Most mmos just have a huge learning curve, especially when it comes to knowing all the classes each game has and every single thing you need to do to be prepared for the content you want to enjoy.

[@merchantchannel1245]

Thats true, ARPGS are also the same like that. Poe is prime example of you can't log in and just play the game, you have to look up literally guides to understand whats in front of your screen which is actually just terrible.

[@tyice8730]

I'm sure new players have a wonderful time trying to farm gear in BGs. Just getting absolutely slaughtered on spawn by fully BiS sweat lords. A new player is already bad... how do you expect him to get into PVP when the game is so grossly unbalanced?

[@lucasmorgan4379]

Literally happening to me right now

[@kudohlol9379]

they asked for more abilities and talents and now they have awesome classes with tons of complexity and now they complain ahhahahah I personally LOVE the game even if i suck and its complicated, I AGREE with you completely, its the queue times that suck, if i could queue a dps every 3 min or less solo shuffle id be playing 100%. Either way, disc is fun too :)

[@Pikachu_Pot_Pie]

If they got rid of addons I would honestly come back to play.. I don't like having to figure out a custom UI just to be on an even playing field

[@illfate757]

I've played Wow since classic and honestly Dragonflight is complicated after just taking a break from shadowlands. I really just don't wanna learn all this stuff I honestly think Dragonflight is cool and I just follow the game now from streams/youtube. But for instance I just tried to make a Evoker for the first time and after doing their starting area I still had no idea what the hell I was doing with the class. I can only imagine being brand new and a person who doesn't use Wowhead or the internet in general to play this. I personally just don't have the patience anymore. Also if you are new to this game the community isn't really that great to keep you in the game. Usually if you are new you instantly get shit on and kicked from groups.

[@elar5717]

Lost Ark has truly addressed a key concern at the start of the video. Its arena design revolves around stat distribution, fostering an environment where every player can achieve parity. Beyond that, success relies on knowledge and skill. I believe World of Warcraft should consider incorporating this approach while preserving the essence of tier set upgrades / progression. Perhaps they could introduce a similar system, ensuring a level playing field in terms of immediate access and fair gear configurations, while also providing the gratification of gear progression. Additionally, these sets could be repurposed as PvE sets, allowing PvP-oriented players to participate in PvE content without their gear being a hindrance to their effectiveness.

[@cainrip89]

​@miatomi except wow did what they famously do.. let me steal a feature from another game and put the blizzard spin on it... until end of cata it worked near everytime except now it's a different dev team and they gotta scuff it.. template's couldn't be customized you were stuck with what they gave you and they didn't give some specs the right stats..lacl of being able to change your stats was the issue not templates themselves

[@elar5717]

@miatomi I wasn't aware wow ever had stat templates in any type of PvP content. Which xpac was this?

[@cainrip89]

@@elar5717 Legion

[@Choryrth]

@27:00 you can 100% play pve without addons. it just requires a lot more attention than it used to. even heroic raiding, no addons needed. once you get to higher mythic keys though, yeah you need addons. but raiding needs none.

[@WTFTOOMANYNAMESTAKEN]

I think the real issue with WoW PvP is the amount of CC in the game. If you look at Vanilla most classes didn't have spammable CC and not a lot of classes had stuns. But with each expansion came more CCs and more stuns to the point where if a meta comp was good enough you literally couldn't even play the game, and pretty much every class now has spammable CC/chain CC ability. Look at teams like TSG or RMP in Wrath - TSG's comp was built off a burst opening that almost no one could survive as the healer literally couldn't cast a single spell if done right. RMP comp is literally a comp built around CC - where they win by not letting the other team play and that's been the best comp in the game since I could remember (haven't seriously PvP'd since wrath so idk what the best comps are these days). Its one of the more asinine concepts I've ever seen a game incorporate. Take most of the CC out of the game and let people play the game in PvP and it'd be light years more fun.

[@totallynottrademarked5279]

Big copium on this. WoW is in a horrible state to attract new people. I have tried with so many people and they have the same complaints. Even people coming from FFXIV. Too much external shit and you can't tell wtf is going on in the game without a shit ton of add-ons. It is really hard for someone who literally earns a living playing WoW all day, it is a horrible experience for the core gaming audience in the modern era that has a job, and maybe a family but can only play 2 hours at night max. Not that every single thing should be accessible to them or easy for them but you can't honestly engage in more than one system in WoW at that time level of investment. Just trying to keep up on crafting skill points while pushing M+ is a massive amount of time for people with responsibilities. Finding a group is not an easy solution. Like who the fuck am I going to find that is up at 2AM to play with me while I watch my dog that is undergoing cancer treatment and needs 24/7 care? Much fewer people with a very specific two-hour window to play each day. Making the game more queable should be a top priority including for M+ sub +15.

[@totallyrealname6376]

Zero to Hero with absolutely no external services or admit you're wrong :)

[@mcsnackagetv3534]

To be fair you don't "Just play League" or any other MOBAs, those are also super complicated buy ins. But a lot of MOBAs don't have this issue WoW has.