"Is WoW Too Complicated?" - Pika Reacts

Follow me:
► Twitch: / pikabooirl
► Twitter: / pikaboowow
► Instagram: / jasonsmithtm
Outro Song: All Fires - Don't Say Manhattan
Edited by / planktoned
#goldenguardians #wowpvp #pikaboo

[@angelm3254]

The most underrtted thing they never talked about was, the abilities you needed to remember from other classes, otherwise you become dog food anyway.

[@ronaldwestbeal2269]

That comes with playing the game it’ll take some time I don’t even have to try to recognize what the abilities in the game do for every class I just know

[@effortlessGFX]

Well done Ronald, you’ve cracked it. Proud of you. It really is that simple everyone. No issues here.

[@ronaldwestbeal2269]

@@effortlessGFX why are you being an asshole all I said was it comes with time there’s no need to rush that I don’t see how you view my comment as me trying to say it’s an easy fix or something

[@austin3205]

I think blizzard should add their own interface to show you enemy class defensives or what not

[@patdeleva7072]

Omnibar let’s you scroll through every class cd in their menu and check off the ones you want icons for, even if you don’t use the icons, it’s a quick way to comb through all the classes and see major offensives and defensives

[@dismiss3d323]

You open Valorant you queue for a game. You open League/Dota you queue for a game. You open wow and pay monthly to do chores because the minigame we like to play is trapped in a MMO.

[@trivial50]

Wrong as of DF. Even Shadowlands had minimal amounts of chores for PvP. But DF is full gear in 5 hours playtime at max level.

[@oldmoney1022]

@@trivial50 "But DF is full gear in 5 hours playtime at max level." Uhh define full gear? Full honor gear with embellishments? Sure, but with how long epic bgs can last, 20-30 minutes each, 5 hours is probably not right. 6-7 hours, in other words, a full day of playtime, maybe. To even become competitive. Tier? No. Full conquest? Hell no, unless you got a good teammate to play with to spam arenas with.

[@eohgee-1269]

@@trivial50 it can be even quicker depending on wins / weekly events

[@fullgazz]

MINIGAME trapped in a MMO, Just brilliant!

[@silvioantonio6952]

​@@trivial50only 5hours, after max level. Guess i must be glad. In cs go, i can open the game on a brand new account, and just play pvp, same on dota, lol, valorant... 😂😂😂😂

[@okandokandast]

Pika is vastly underestimating how much prep is needed to even play comp WoW PvP compared to your avg comp FPS. Leveling, gearing, setting up basic addons (arena frame + dr tracker at least), finding someone to play with to even get started at low rating. You dont even need all the fancy macros/WAs etc but the barriers are still massive.

[@BloodyElbow707]

Yeah hes missing the point completely lol, obviously there is a learning curve to games. but you have to do and add so much shit to play wow. its not even close, but he did read a comment that said cope, and he is full of copeium for sure

[@IIFeaRzXD]

i know im late but him comparing it to fps games and their settings was some of the biggest cope ive heard today. As a new player i can tell you this game is not new player friendly at all lmao.

[@harrisonbannerman7412]

Literally all of that is a basic part of mmorpgs. If you don't like that this genre isn't for you

[@toonmaster777]

​@@harrisonbannerman7412 Addons are not a basic part of mmorpgs. WoWs design is so bad it makes them nearly required. other games its for simple quality of life or just aesthetics. Also not as much prep for other mmos as much as wow. Also if you read okandokandast they are comparing it to fps. Has nothing to do with whether they like it or not, its just a comparison that pika is claiming is the same, which it isnt. Setting up your peripherals and your Game Settings is something people do for every game(even single player ones).

[@okandokandast]

Sure, the issue however is that competitive PvP games don't work when no one's playing them, and people don't play because the "do tons to get started PvPing" genre doesn't appeal to a sufficient amount of PvPers. This (along with a myriad of other reasons making PvP in WoW awful) causes the regular negative spiral of people quitting due to not enough people playing that we're currently starting to see.

[@Checkem]

As a healer i started in solo shuffle. I am so fkn bad but solo shuffle gave me the confidence and experience to try to join 3s. I wish diminishing returns and party cooldowns were base line in the ui

[@Kassadinftw]

Blizz would be really smart to incorporate some of the well used PVP ui mods into the interface as a way to assist new players.

[@stepheniavarone9836]

Try to start as Dps in solo shuffle you will log out waiting for Que times

[@hyperstatic6037]

Absolutely. DR and cooldown tracking and trading should be clarified much more in the standard UI. Also, all the pvp specific tuning and ability changes in different modes. You have to keep up with current patch notes and all that just to have a slight clue what is happening

[@heroictesticles6870]

Soon as you make a mistake, or are just outplayed as a healer in 2's or 3's people start rage quitting. It's really not easy to get into unless you are in a guild with people who don't have the maturity of toddlers.

[@Laou41]

They should just do what GW did and make a PVP mode that you can just make a max level, get full gear and go instantly. Without that WoW is a fucking grind that I dont need.

[@Paul-xp1kd]

He's so right about how unwelcoming and negative the community is... sure the game has had problems for a while. But the more players coming in the more feedback on these issues we get.

[@oldmoney1022]

This is called Karma. This is what inevitably happens to businesses that don't listen to customer feedback. WoW players complaints have gone unanswered for years, and this is the result. Potential new customers stay away. Sucks for the loyal existing customers, but it is what it is.

[@Literofcola77]

So true I literally came back from a pretty long break on Friday and while leveling a did a dungeon, the one where you fly around to the diff spots I don’t know the name but I didn’t have my dragon flying yet and instead of them explaining that I could use the fp I was called “a useless waste of ducking time” and booted. People are ridiculous it was a reg dungeon

[@Saf_Ibn_Sayyad_Bacon]

​@@Literofcola77pvers are toxic due to mythic plus

[@dingdongspaghetti]

very true, blizzard execs actually hacked my pc and made me tell new and learning players they're trash and to quit the game, wasn't my fault@@oldmoney1022

[@BebegosAspectOfBabyFlight]

Fresh Heroic raid? Ask for curve. Now you have blocked new players from accessing that content. So there goes your favourite games popularity. 3 years later stupid curve will mean nothing. Blizzard has to fix this somehow.

[@kickthunt4239]

The main problem with WoW is the fact that you need outside websites to play the game optimally. The lack of in game information on how to play your toon whether that's pve or pvp is really bad. A lot of tooltips are just plainly labelled wrong, no where does it tell you what you should be aiming for gear wise. Good luck finding out what diminishing returns are. New players need more information to make their journey a smoother experience.

[@derlou88]

try path of exile

[@robbin2331]

This goes for Venruki's example as well: Counterstrike, on the surface, looks like a very simple game. But 80% of players are still in silver/gold (the lowest ranks). If you really want to play like the pros, you have to take into account your and your enemy's economy, know your timings, know your flashes/smokes, play on sound etc. which - you guessed it - also requires some form of external help like the websites you'r talking about. One could almost say that there's enough handholding in WoW to make it just as "easy" to just pick up and play as CSGO.

[@Wolta]

@@robbin2331 That's completely fair, but I feel like it's harder in WoW. CSGO only has maybe 20 weapons and 5 grenades, that every player can buy. WoW has 40 abilities per class, with an added racial ability, borrowed power (haven't played lots of DF so not sure if it still has it). Me as an "experienced" WoW player it's not that overwhelming, but I can imagine WoW being way more overwhelming than CSGO for new players. That being said, CSGO doesn't have PvE, thus learning the game requires you to play with 4 others against 5 others. Whereas in WoW you can learn the game at your own pace while leveling.

[@zackkilley3223]

@@robbin2331i think valorant is a better example of a game that’s extremely new player/casual friendly. csgo u still need to know lineups at this point because of the older player base, but with valo they took a lot of the pressure off by having smokes be just point and click. yeah you can learn like molly lines up but i don’t think it’s really that impactful until like literal pro play/high immortal/radiant. i think establishing a stronger foundation in wow would be much healthier for the longevity of the game and to introduce new players to the game - just take away all this extra shit that is really unnecessary and let people do what they wanna do, which really is m+/raiding/pvp. i think blizzard should look at the good things from classic servers and live servers and combine them to make a genuinely enjoyable game again.

[@joshgarcia6344]

@@derlou88 yeah PoE is an even worse version of needing outside software and information in order to play the game. Casuals never have a chance. I've tried getting like 10 of my friends to play the game and only 1 has ever even made it to endgame, yet all of them play wow endgame at at least a semi-hardcore manner.

[@PawanM]

I WANNA BE LIKE PIKABOO WHEN I GROW UP TOO!

[@wipes47]

this game used to feel like a job at times. so much to know, so much to do. i miss it but lets be real, it can be a time sink

[@wrongman5495]

in pvp now you have to do nothing , the problem its the soloshuffle q time for dps

[@trivial50]

takes 2 hours to gear now

[@bubsenseijebe2993]

its only a time sink if you let it be tbh

[@SlackinPanda]

game easily has more to know now than it ever has. Which is part of the difficulty in learning; dont stack the right stuff, your damage is pitiful.

[@wrongman5495]

unlocking 2 champion in lol its the same time if not more as get honor gear atm

[@arforafro5523]

Something I told a friend who stuck to 2v2 rated and didnt try much of Solo Shuffle was games are usually 4-2, 2-4 or 3-3 for dps while for healers its usually 6-0 or 0-6. DPS are playing a game of figuring out who the weakest player is on the match while healers are competing directly with the enemy healer, as a DPS you're usually trying to scrap a win in one of the 3 rounds with the worst player to go positive while a skill gap between both healers means the best healer will roll the enemy healer 6-0. You end up playing 6 rounds having a net positive or negative or 1 game if you did not go even and then you're back to waiting for another 40 minutes. I think the easiest solution would be enabling 2v2 with 4 DPS players if there's no healers queueing up, 2v2 is a degenerate bracket but it sure beats alt tabbing for 40 minutes then getting into a game and you're also complete zoned out because you took a very long break from your last game and need to warm up again to play your best.

[@skytears31]

Venruki is 100% right. Hence the low player count and hardly any new players.

[@Vikwak]

Hes not 100% right, he backs up his argument with biased opinions, but he doesnt criticise his argument. If a new player would go right into pvp, first they would need to pay for a sub. Then they would also need to know what their buttons do. If they would die immediately maybe they would quit the game right away. Evrryone I know dont play wow because of the subscription fee. Not about anything else. Wow is about being rewarding in order to keep players satisfied and in order to keep them in the game. To keep paying sub

[@gansta432]

@@Vikwak If you can't afford 15$ a month then you shouldn't be playing video games. You need to manage your finances better and get your life back on track. WoW has saved me money by playing it. I spend hundreds of hours on a game thats 15$ a month compared to buying a game for 70$ and beating it in a week.

[@1994SHOtime]

@@gansta432 Exactly this. 15 a month is $60 in 4 months, which is equal to buying 3 new games per year. It's one of the cheapest games to play outside of F2P, as long as you don't fall into microtransactions

[@Notmytwin]

He’s wrong lol simple youre taking this from a dude who’s been on Diablo for most of the WoW ssn hasn’t even gotten to 2200 yet. He catering to the toxic shitters who are hard stuck and will just complain instead of get better lol

[@ztrain8256]

@@Notmytwin lmao "toxic shitters"

[@suficationz4978]

They need to give new players a pre arena obstacle crash course or tutorial where it puts you into a arena with bots and it teaches you basic information such as CC chains using defensives.

[@WhyDidYouChange]

ah yes, make it easier.

[@suficationz4978]

yeah thats the whole point...so more people can actually start arena and not dive head first into the hardest pvp game with 0 guidance and have to look up a million guides to be able to even play.@@WhyDidYouChange

[@JonezBBQ]

@@WhyDidYouChange People like you are exactly why the game is DYING. You gatekeep the community, belittling new players instead of helping them. And then you turn around and wonder why your solo shuffle queues are upwards of 2 hours. You do know that not everyone else has played WoW for the last 20 years and memorized every ability and interaction, right? As if teaching new players the basics and fundamentals of the game is going to impact you in any way whatsoever.

[@WhyDidYouChange]

@@JonezBBQ Whats so bad about learning the game the same way we did? Is it the drop of average intelligent quotia? Attention span? Or maybe, majority of players spent 10+ years learning, and are still learning new things, so it would be better to spoonfeed the experience to new players, rather than have them wander and fish for 4 hours straight, like we used to do? No matter how thin you cook a pancake, there's still two sides

[@trill.willzz]

@@WhyDidYouChangebrain dead take

[@PledgeBass]

I played through all of season 1 of dragonflight - I'm a very competitive person but no matter how hard I tried to get into PVP I just couldn't convince myself to devote all of the time needed to figure out what the actual fuck is going on lol.

[@Pympchimpin]

Its literally just repetition lmao. Play the game and even remotely pay attention and you’ll figure it out. Everyones of the mindset these days of “well why cant they just hold my hand THE ENTIRE TIME so I dont have to do anything myself”. Long gone are the days where looking something up was the FUN part of playing games like WoW. Now its “boohoo I have to use my brain”

[@tone6963]

@@Pympchimpinlowkey tho you right 🤣

[@trivial50]

I don't see how this is different from other games.

[@jixer1495]

No, its not boohoo I have to use my brain. Its I have multiple jobs working 50-60 hours per week and I don't have time to dedicate to making a fully fleshed out and prepared character for end game content or at least the time to dedicate to stick to the curve of the player base that has lots of free time...the least I can get is a mode where everyone is balanced so skill Is the only determining factor in an objective based game mode. No, I join and there's many fully decked out players erasing all of the unprepared characters(skill means very little here) all the time and its overwhelming, discouraging, and boring to say the least. If Bliz wants a more fleshed out community as opposed to elites and average joes primarily than they have to stream line and balance. Not prioritizing our money, but really considering our time spent and our experience quality.

[@trivial50]

@@jixer1495 It takes 5 hours to get a character basically max geared if you queue some 2s/3s. Enormous amounts of free time is not necessary. Time taken to actually get good at the game is not a chore. It is the actual basic content of the game.

[@RaimaNd]

Not only too complicated for new player. Even for veterans. Like seriously there is so much nonsens in this game. Billions of mounts, pets, achivements, items, rep, whatever. Also too many abilities. It's blown up. And a lot of good abilities don't exist anymore. Every class can also do everything for many addons now. Knockbacks, kicks, stuns, spints, jumps, it's just too much.

[@TheGreatZehstro]

Mounts/Pets/Achievements and Rep have absolutely nothing to do with the topic of discussion. None of these have any impact on your actual gameplay. Mounts/Pets are miscellaneous and are just collectibles. Achievements are also just another thing for you to go do if you have nothing to go do. Rep hasnt been relevant for a very long time, it has nothing necessary unless you want collectibles/recipes. The game is very plug and play right now. Make your character 1-60 is irrelevant. 60-70 do your campaign. You’re now at end game and gearing is absurdly easy. The only part it gets confusing are the actual mechanics of the game and class abilities. Rep is account shared through all your toons same with mounts pets and achievements.

[@favortingshit]

played wow from vanilla to cata, got glad in cata have played tens of thousands of arena games. i came back for dragonflight and played a couple games of solo shuffle before deciding i cba learning 400 new leap, dash, damage, healing, teleport, and wall cooldowns every single class has now. ill just raid log

[@janah6473]

I bet good money you stopped in wotlk and call yourself now a "veteran".

[@TayaYoung04]

One of the saddest things that ever happened to me in wow was: I got my wife to play an evoker. We queued the first week the class was out (in DF prepatch), I was excited for her to try it. It was a heroic random queue for uldaman. And the pug was such an asshole to her, said she "shouldn't be queuing heroic without knowing her class", she never played again. Again, this was a heroic lfg..where on earth else would she learn prevoker if not in a dungeon >_

[@xZaGoNx]

Similar thing happened to my wife. I’m sorry to hear that. Wow community is so toxic to new players.

[@baro6447]

this is why most of my friends quit too.

[@TayaYoung04]

@@baro6447 =( sad. I play high-ish keys myself and I try my best to help people in a meaningful /constructive way without being mean. I am sorry that your friends left because of the toxicity.

[@leechking2476]

Well… why didn’t you que for a normal dungeon first😭😭

[@leechking2476]

@@datemike1184 agreed. Should’ve had her heal normal dungeons atleast for a few days and get gear before trying a heroic

[@OutlandishOW]

I started WoW this year, if you have the right friends helping it’s really not that hard to start learning.

[@devvn4671]

what do you main?

[@milten76]

I started this year too and you dont even need to friends. Getting gear is so easy.

[@LegitOoter]

whats you 2v2 arena rating ? what class are u playin ? im playing wow since start with some gaps for some time breaks. and stil lcant say im a monster at pvp. im playing sub rogue now on WOTLK. you need about few years to get good at pvp. at least you are not playing 100 arena matches every day at least for a 100 days. PVE is for dummies in wow. dont compare it to arena ). its deferent world.

[@milten76]

@@LegitOoter the game isnt balanced around 2v2.

[@Checkem]

I was using Omnicd in M+ but it broke when i started playing pvp. It makes it hard AF but i also now know the sound of a lot of abilities. i wish it would just work but it isn't terrible

[@Doomon15]

Honestly another huge improvement to soloque in my opinion is PLEASE add RBGs solo que too, that rated ladder has also been corrupted by the same arena disease of exclusive group ques who single out everyone else and obliterate the competition, it’s becoming less and less fun if you don’t have gladiators helping carry your group. Solo que needs to solve many problems but I feel it also needs to expand past its boundaries if it is expected to have more potential in its longevity, give us RBG solo ques!

[@jeremyd6304]

ayo 👀

[@Th3_a_g4m3]

We come from the future, solo queue rbg’s will be a thing

[@Doomon15]

XD ikr, Dude I was happy af they announced that, def gonna be an improvement to the PvP community@@Th3_a_g4m3

[@petersims411]

I disagree with Pika here. He mentioned first time in Apex he got 1 kill in an hour, but how long would it take to get an arena kill from first downloading WoW? It would be days or weeks until you're levelled and geared enough to get there so I think in terms of accessibility Wow is much harder to break in to. Also the amount you have to keep track of in arena is crazy. There is a lot to keep track of in high end fps shooters but WoW is another level with DRs, cooldowns and set ups. Maybe it's because I'm better at fps than arena but even just to get to something easier like KSM would be harder than to get a foothold in an fps imo.

[@rileykuhl8011]

I think the CS comp is great to show the difference. I stopped playing WoW and jumped on CS and the difference of the learning curve is way different. If you get a Smurf in CS, yeah you’ll have a bad time, but that doesn’t happen that often. The amount of things to know in WoW to be good at PVP is 1,000 times more. Unless 1200 is your goal in 3s.

[@Boss-ot1iy]

Try to strive for Faceit lvl 10. You'll think differently

[@dyner2369]

@@Boss-ot1iy faceit lvl 10 isnt all that difficult

[@Boss-ot1iy]

@dyner2369 Lmao. You definitely don't know rankings then wow kid. Faceit 10 is right below fpl

[@dyner2369]

@@Boss-ot1iy if you think 2k elo is "right below fpl", then you're just delulu

[@Boss-ot1iy]

@dyner2369 it's literally right below it lol. Watch Simple against other faceit 10 players and he's in fpl. You'd know this shit if you actually played the game or even kept up with it shitter

[@Ribcut]

4:35 I'm sorry but this was advanced level cope. Talking about monitor settings, desk position, graphics settings, disabling vsync, and 90% of what you mentioned is for every game you're playing on PC including WoW, not just FPS games. In fact half of what you said applies to anyone who just uses a computer every day and decides to optimize their experience. WoW is the only game I have played in history that requires me to install 3rd party software to make the game playable. It's honestly one of the reasons I am hesitant to reinstall the game when a new xpac drops, because I think of how tedious and annoying installing or updating addons is going to be. WoW is also the only game where I'm required to pay $15 a month just to log in, whereas most other popular multiplayer games are literally free with cosmetic shop. (WoW has both somehow) Aim Labs is the only relevant comparable point, and I personally don't use it anymore because playing the actual game will ultimately be better practice anyway. It's not a requirement at all, whereas addons in WoW is absolutely 100% a requirement. Venruki was right here brother even though I love your content and you're the goat. I might watch the occasional video, but I'm not playing the game for the main reasons he mentioned. Saying "you wouldn't get 2 kills in cs:go" isn't analogous because that's due to a lack of skill, not a lack of completing the time gated tasks to be competitively viable. Imagine if your gun did 30% less damage than the enemy team because they played more last month. The game would die in a week. People outside the WoW community don't put up with that shit. Also imagine this 30% debuff ON TOP of there being a skill gap, and that's WoW arena for new players. Every human recreation that has withstood the test of time has a skill gap, but WoW specifically requires you to grind before your skill even becomes a relevant variable. You're the best rogue of all time besides maybe Reckful, and I would 100% beat you every single time if I'm in full conquest + embellishments and you're in random blues you got from leveling. That's not skill, and it's not the idea of fun to most people trying to get into the game.

[@ppsarrakis]

his brain is so assimilated that he can only see the world with this POV,like a matrix screensaver.

[@neji275]

imagine writing an essay in a youtube comment section no one is going to read this shit. shut up bro

[@Shandalarian]

For 3v3 you might not need all those addons if you have voice coms and a vocal team, but you need most of them.... And then for shuffle you need Sarena and the omni combo for sure... and the healer cc alert... If you think you dont its because you forgot what its like to play at those levels... and while top players know what to look for and dont need so many addons, the same cannot be said of the casual players.

[@WTFTOOMANYNAMESTAKEN]

I think the real issue with WoW PvP is the amount of CC in the game. If you look at Vanilla most classes didn't have spammable CC and not a lot of classes had stuns. But with each expansion came more CCs and more stuns to the point where if a meta comp was good enough you literally couldn't even play the game, and pretty much every class now has spammable CC/chain CC ability. Look at teams like TSG or RMP in Wrath - TSG's comp was built off a burst opening that almost no one could survive as the healer literally couldn't cast a single spell if done right. RMP comp is literally a comp built around CC - where they win by not letting the other team play and that's been the best comp in the game since I could remember (haven't seriously PvP'd since wrath so idk what the best comps are these days). Its one of the more asinine concepts I've ever seen a game incorporate. Take most of the CC out of the game and let people play the game in PvP and it'd be light years more fun.

[@remantin]

i hope you do more react content. you are a smart charismatic guy, you are made for this

[@Haonnn]

pro wow player turned react andy? idk man

[@StrobeFireStudios]

​@@Haonnnafter 1 reaction he's a react andy? Grow up

[@bubsenseijebe2993]

He does analyze and communicate everything way way better than anyone else in the community for sure. With humor too. Dudes really the goat of wow

[@ztrain8256]

@@bubsenseijebe2993 eh, xar is right there

[@kurisechan88]

React is the meta

[@rickysimons8517]

Blizzards employees are a bunch a clowns now, more worried about making a baby day care in game then improving solo shuffle

[@ALIGHTFORTHEWORLD]

While I 100% agree with counterstrike and how you wouldn't be able to even get a kill, your at least still playing the game mode you want to play. IN wow, theres hour supon hours of content you are forced to play before even having the option to play arenas. AND THEN theres barriers like gear and teammates. Big difference.

[@nickpurdy69]

yeah he completely missed the point there and was trying to compare his experience as a professional player to what it would take to be a professional in an FPS. I don't think he was thinking about the casual Andy there.

[@Boss-ot1iy]

Well if you wanna play comp, you gotta hit a certain level in cs and then you gotta WIN 10 games to even get your placement. So if you wanna play comp in cs then you're not able to just get on it and play the mode you wanna play

[@endsage2163]

Either way, the barrier to entry for WoW competitive PvP is much bigger than most other games. I think that's pretty clear.

[@TramRide]

Interesting to hear Pika's understanding (or lack of) regarding other video games. If you have never played ranked in League and then play it... you'll end up in games with 'icon clickers' and children - you WILL win 50% of your games. The same cannot be said for WoW

[@sel6325]

I tried start with leauge. Got flamed for being this Bad in 3 Games in a row and quit after. Its Not ez to start with lol today

[@blahblahgdp]

I quit league ranked season 1 because I saw their bullshit MMR system right away. They are not afraid to put you with absolute new players to tank you're MMR to keep you in that state of flux so you keep coming back, or you just quit

[@mio7452]

Got a shit ton of time in league and my friends tried to start it recently. It's super toxic because to level to ranked you will meet so many smurfs that shit talk you after not giving you a single chance cus they just know spacing

[@eduardoburgosacosta243]

​​​@@mio7452 ye but they need to wait 3 month to level and 1 month to gear 3 month learning other characters, to be the same toxic shit as wow, they went to the Game took a look and then quit, as for wow You have to spend all that time and then quit cuz, queue to long, solo shuffle so toxic, bg is full of premade overgeared.! And You getting oneshotted Even with all the gear from bg, and let me tell You, not being able to play the Game till your fully gear is a fuking pain.!! SO yes a good intelligent person Will always choose to play any other Game that let You play with your friend Even if they have a long time in that Game already, cuz those types of Game is not base on gear or grinding, and in wow while You farm you get demolish while doing so.! By some premade bully overgeared farming You at the cementary.

[@arod_goated]

you will also end up in games with literal bots on you team that dont press buttons meaning you will have to 4v5 while in a rank where the 3 other people on your team also dont really know what they are doing, on top of that in order to play ranked you have to get to level 30 first if you play the draft mode or now quickplay mode they dont care about MMR nearly as much and as a brand new player you could get matched up against someone that is in diamond, for example the 2023 world champs like 2 weeks after winning worlds played a normals game with the champs they were planning to get their skins on, since riot give out team skins if you win worlds, the other team in their normals game not a single player was above the rank of plat

[@davew2040x]

There’s a fundamental incompatibility here. The WoW designers want dungeons and raids to feel interesting to players, and one way that they make repetitive, fairly mechanical content to be interesting is to up to the complexity involved in just the basic, passive gameplay. Having a lot of skills to use feels good. The problem is that this total over abundance of skills is not AT ALL desirable in PvP. There’s a reason why most PvP-first team games have a fairly limited number of kills, and rely on players awareness of the larger tactical situation to use those skills effectively with their teammates. To have a very large number of skills that your teammates and the opposing team’s players can use quickly becomes overwhelming to players. Like, SUPER QUICKLY. The fact that your average WoW spec has between 20 and 40 abilities is just complete overkill for the 99.9% of players who aren’t deeply invested in succeeding in an environment that isn’t well designed for human comprehension. That’s ONE reason why the game is impossible to follow, and of course it’s compounded by the fact that Blizzard has essentially given up on doing UI design for PvP and outsourced all of that to unpaid people out in the Internet. There’s a huge array of skills and interactions, and if you look at paladins for example, Avenging Wrath isn’t just a skill, it’s a talent that has like five or six other talents THAT CHANGE THAT SAME TALENT. You kinda sorta know what’s happening, and you kinda sorta think “okay, other guy used this thing and I know it’s a big deal”, but down in the nuts and bolts you probably don’t know what’s involved there unless you happen to play that class quite a bit. And then look at warriors - Blizzard went and made talents that proc Avatar for a short duration when you use another skill. So you don’t even fucking know for sure when Avatar gets cast whether it’s a major offensive push unless you also check the duration of the buff, and by the way, you or your teammates can potentially die within a GCD so it makes a pretty big fucking difference to know when the enemy damage window is. They literally designed the talent system around what’s interesting for PvE rotations, and in doing so, they basically just said “okay guys, good luck over there in arena land, we’ll turn the knobs up and down on damage if we think one class is doing too well”. It’s blatantly obvious that the game isn’t accessible to newcomers who inevitably get sick of getting exploded without knowing how or why. But then there’s #1 player world over here saying “IDK, seems fine to me”.

[@zargisan9017]

Pika it’s 100% normal to have a lot of Addons even at low rating. I played without Addons when I first got into arena a couple years ago but then I saw some KZbin videos because I wanted to get past 1500 and they all say to get Addons. There’s so much that goes into retail WoW. The biggest problem with the game in my opinion is that you can’t tell what’s going on. There so many buttons and abilities and passives in the game and it’s impossible to know what’s happening unless you’ve played the game for a long time and you have Addons.

[@rahundsigma]

i get 1800 no problem with just bigdebuffs

[@evoly9765]

​@@rahundsigmawell 1.8 is nothing And now in shuffle times its even easier to Hit 1.8 just to olay PvE in the lobby I always played alone even before shuffle And See mate And enemie cooldowns i want. Increased my rating from Stuck 2200 to glad Its a huge difference

[@rahundsigma]

@evoly9765 what addons do you use? Are they called 'see mate' and 'enemy cooldowns'? Ima check em out

[@ppsarrakis]

also the issue with wow is that "low rating" means nothing sometimes,you will go against +++ teams gettting boosted/RMT.... this is the elephant in the room that he ofc wont address...

[@Cirosh]

I think PvP gearing is better than ever and honor gear being only 13 ilvl behind conquest gear makes PvP much more accessible

[@TheOnlyTRob]

I started wow in shadowlands for the first time ever. The learning curve was Insane and PvE was so boring but shitting on someone in PvP was sick. I played hunter at first until I kept getting shit on from rogues, then I found pika and palumor and learned as much as I could and then found a mage and we became good friends using voice and after months of grinding and learning we hit 1950 in 2s and it was the most amazing feeling. Then I went to hit 1950 on my hunter, a warrior, mage, and feral. But none of my IRL friends want to put in any time to even level let along grind and learn pvp. It’s a real shame. Shouldn’t have to be forced to jump through so many hoops to just pvp. I hope solo ques pop, and I’m down as fuck for no addons

[@trivial50]

That is good progress, well done.

[@malator7763]

We had a 55 y/o guy who mainly played New World and Mortal Online 2 come join a few of us on WoW SoD, this was his first time ever playing WoW in general. He would get on youtube and watch WoW videos on how to play and he was getting mad flustered on how many addons he was told he needs and was super confused on how to set it all up. Myself and a few others told him to ignore that crap, gave him 3 addons that would give him some QoL and showed him how to set it up and then told him to play the game how he wanted to. Dude is now enjoying the piss out of the game and can't get him off it. Moral of the story, just play the game. It's really good, don't mind the people who tell you what you need to do. Do what you want to do and I assure you, you'll enjoy it.

[@jjmacdaddy1]

You hit it Pika I am 44 years old and have been playing wow since Wotlk. I go to work 12 hrs a day and come home and try to play I don’t want it to be like a second job so I play casual plus I have come to terms that I won’t ever be at the top b/c my awareness and reactions r not what they used to be. So I have went back to play Wotlk a slower pace more laid back. Now my kid said she does not like classic b/c it is to slow so she likes retail so they r to me headed in the right direction for the younger generation but they need to keep working to crack down on the toxic/jerks/trolls or they will run them off.

[@gmka3920]

Biggest problem with WoW PvP is that many animations are not clear enough. So per example,many people especially casuals don't know a stun happened unless the addon tells them. All people can understand is healthbars when they watch wow, they have no clue who's doing what unlike FPS per example.

[@dongy762]

As a returning arena player who brought a bunch of new friends to WoW with them, Ven is absolutely right.

[@ayyycortana7196]

The difference is that in other games you don't have to be accepted into a group to play competitive team content. You can queue as a group or you can queue into a group as an individual. To play competitive group content in WoW you have to "apply" to a group and the leader inspects your gear score and your pvp rating and then accepts or denies you. That is a WoW thing. I have played Overwatch and Apex at a Masters level and solo queued many nights that my friends weren't on or we didn't have a full team and don't have to apply to a group in order to play games. Most people would never get into an fps game if they couldn't queue solo and had to apply to a group and the group could see their KD and win percentage. There's absolutely no shot. I play WoW now and, as a new player, I have a 420 iLvl gear score and am doing high key mythics and raiding and I'm doing no worse than other players in my group who have been playing WoW for 15 years. But if it weren't for my brother who is 2000+ pvp rating and KSM in every season getting me into these groups, I'd never have a chance to do anything in WoW and that's a 100% fact. I'd never have gotten the opportunity to gear up and do the content if I wasn't tagging along with the person doing the highest dps in the instance. No way in hell.

[@ppsarrakis]

"KSM in every season getting me into these groups, I'd never have a chance to do anything in WoW and that's a 100% fact." not really,you just need to start from +5 on all dungeons,then move up 1 mythic on everything, will take 10 times longer than getting boosted tho....

[@ayyycortana7196]

​@@ppsarrakis That is literally my point. There is no version of reality where I want to regular dungeons and then progress to a 1 key then a 2 key etc for all content just to be able to do content that doesn't make me fall asleep. I turned level 70 and then queued into a 11 key as my first WoW dungeon with a 393 iLvl. We timed it. I was doing on average the same dps as everyone else. I'm not "boosted" either. I pay attention while my brother tells me the mechanics, I do them, I press my buttons.

[@1994jcourtney]

Has any streamer talked about the possibility of making solo shuffle only being dps if no healers are online to reduce que times? However, when two healers are available, the game prioritizes having the 2dps and 1 healer teams.

[@saewels]

Im a new player myself, bought the game about 6 months ago and coming from guild wars all I can say is that WoW comunity is... just weird. How can someone love and hate a game so much at the same time? It is a great game but some content creators really need to chill, Im so tired of tier list and stuff like that. Just play what its fun for you unless you are a WFR raider 😂

[@bradyvilhauer4445]

This is huge actually, thanks for your perspective. I very, very much agree. So much rage for a video game, yet such a dedicated following. For an optional video game. People need to remember it’s fun, and act like it, or they need to quit! It’s like they are stuck

[@oldrin1876]

I have wanted them to erase all the addons from the game for years.

[@LordoftheWarcraft]

I agree with so much of what you said man. I wish you could get your points into other of the bigger creators heads. You are so right about the negativity and toxicity. It has long been my opinion that the "old guard" that have direct contact with devs have pushed the game into bad directions over the years, and no willingness to change. I appreciate this video and speaking your truth.

[@sandorvargas4155]

Blizzard could make a server "World of Warcraft Arena" same as WoW classic servers, select a class/race and q arenas with your friends or lfg (not gear needed)

[@driuling]

Idk man but he explained his view of it so well

[@morotsburgare]

The solo format is the future of wow arena, but not nessecarily through shuffle. I've been promoting a groupmaking system based off the 2v2 and 3v3 bracket that would add to or replace LFG. Instead of listing a group and have anyone sign up, you would mark yourself as your preferred spec and your preferred teammates' spec. For example, I main surv hunt and enjoy mostly jungle and thug and will therefore search for ferals, sub rogues and disc/holy priests, which means if there is a feral/sub rogue and a disc/holy that has marked surv hunt + feral/sub rogue then the game would put us together in a party and let us queue 3s as if we just formed a group through LFG. So far I honestly think this is as close to a flawless groupmaking system as we can get. I'll happily answer any questions about this idea

[@SomethingScotty]

The appeal of CS, Valorant, DayZ, etc., etc., is that you can log on fairly quickly, click your mouse and get an immediate response from the game for it. WoW being an MMO, that left click has like 15 per-requisites you gotta complete before it'll do anything of any import. Because MMO's require such a big time investment to get much of anything done, it also requires a huge return on that investment. Like I said earlier, FPS games, Arena Shooters, MOBA's, BR's, etc., etc., they all have a return on the time investment basically the moment you click something, which isn't the case with MMO's. If you don't have a lot of time to play, then it could literally take months to get a return of any substance on the time you invested into that particular character. Unfortunately for WoW, Blizzard hasn't provided much compensation for time spent in their game recently. That's why I've taken up permanent residence in Classic WoW/Season of Discovery because raids even with a bad group only take like 1 and a half hours at most, and there's no such thing as Resilience in Classic PvP making fights take way longer than they should, allowing classes like Druids and Paladins to become absolutely bullshit.

[@shieldslam5936]

Sitting in 1600 with BiS for content and currency is what ruins pvp.

[@shieldslam5936]

But bans in twitch chat when asked why

[@d.j.9739]

To be decent at WOW PvP you do have to do everything Venruki said and get some years of practice. Good PvPers take for grated all the knowledge they know about the game such as it's classes, specs, comps exedra. To be good at an FPS or MOBA, play a couple of months if even that and you are good to go! Pikas comparison of what you have to do to be pro at an FPS is the equivalent of what you need to do to not be horrible at WOW PvP. So not horrible vs pro, but same amount of work, ruffly. :P

[@Boss-ot1iy]

If you don't want to be horrible at any fps game, you have to put years, lol. Fps games are far more complex than wow. So many people hit 2100 in arena. Good luck hitting faceit 10 in cs, let alone fpl. Which is r1 in wow. The best players in the world play fps games and not wow

[@SamLewis18]

@@Boss-ot1iy ?? for fps games you only need to practice your aim and get good game sense to be good at it. To be good at WoW you need to do a ton of research about the game to learn how to get the best gear, best ruins, best stats which can take hours to understand or even days since it just mind boggles you, then you need to grind gear which may take months to get, then you need to install 4387929532 addons which may actually take days or even weeks to get used to those addons since theres just a bunch of stuff on your screen which you don't even understand, then you need to know every single class ability in the game, every single class debuff/buff so that youre able to pvp, just so that when you go into arena you don't get one shotted. And youre telling me FPS games are more complex than WoW? LOOOL, the only people who play WoW are the people who have been playing for years, it takes years to get good at wow, it takes months to get good at an fps game. You also have to learn what every ability does and how theres 20 buttons on your screen that you have to press as well

[@yohimbe2673]

@@SamLewis18agreed

[@RaimaNd]

The good thing about CS tho is you can just install the game and queue up. Everyone starts with the same baseline gear and money. Queue time is also quite short. Of course you can also spend tenthousands of hours into the game min maxing everything but for new player and those who got no time for that we have other game modes or silver/gold nova rank. The humps to get into WoW 3v3 arena are insane. For a new player it takes weeks to level and gear. They know nothing about anything and in WoW the most important skillset is knowledge. Also not sure but wouldn't 3v3 3xdps solo shuffle be cool? Nowadays any class can heal anyway and it would heavily reduce the q time.

[@stever8669]

With the original release there was a lot of stuff to learn but also lots of content to enjoy and fewer changes to classes. Compare that with today and the improvements/nerfs/mechanic changes etc that happen constantly, and instead of incremental improvements that can be worked on over time, there are sweeping alterations that don't allow for any anything other than devoting more time to stay current and competitive. Throw in all the add-ons and the game is no longer for the casual gamer logging on for an hour or so every so often. I remember the satisfaction I used to get from getting gear that gave me just an incremental tiny improvement. Now nothing you play for is meaningful because its all rapidly transient and making any effort is pointless because it will be worthless very quickly. It was nice knowing I could do something over time that would eventually be meaningful and help me in other parts of the game for a while. Even grinding for something was okay because the reward would be good for a while at least. Anyway - the game isn't going back there so at least I have some good memories LOL.

[@luff675]

Its really easy to make friends if youre a chill person. When i came back after a 12 yr break, i knew one person. Now i have a friends list of 75 with legit people who are 1400 all the way to 2.8k exp . LFG was new for me (quit in mop s1) and I loved it

[@mcsnackagetv3534]

To be fair you don't "Just play League" or any other MOBAs, those are also super complicated buy ins. But a lot of MOBAs don't have this issue WoW has.

[@Gulliedoutbigup]

You could basically 'log in and play' during MoP. The amount of people I got to start playing was stupid lol and it was easy for them to learn. now, when I don't play for a patch, I feel like I don't wanna play as there's so much I need to catch up with and do lol i couldnt imagine being a new player.

[@perceptoshmegington3371]

Venruki's point is valid if you're considering that a new player can only enjoy the game if they hit the top ranks of arena PVP. Plenty people can just log in and play and enjoy the game for what it is without competing at the AWC.

[@shawn9922]

I think gear difference in pvp is a big stopper for most people. I would jump on a healer an Q right now if I didn't have to grind out gear for the next 2 weeks.

[@MrTreefrog98]

its crazy to me that it used to be almost 1000% harder back in slands

[@jaycooney405]

Lmao it takes 2 days of bgs and a little gold to get 447 ilvl in arena. Get good kid.

[@MrTreefrog98]

@@jaycooney405 man not this vid mentioning how negative the wow playerbase is and you typing this shit out. do better

[@Miridafeo]

Two weeks? You can grind a full set of blue honor gear and be ilvl 434 in a day.

[@eNv3n0mX]

Bruh, it used to be months

[@stealthyturtles]

They need to add solo queue RBGs. Queuing into a BG is a lot less daunting for players than an arena match. There’s more room to not be a great player, you can have a big or a small impact on the match, you don’t need to play frame perfect, there’s down time between fights and defending flags, it’s not just GOGOGO the second the doors open, people enjoy doing objective based game modes. IMO they should have 2 options for RBG. One should be a team and the other is solo or small group queues. If a team has 7 out of 10 players, they can queue and pick up 3 pugs who are solo queuing. At the end of a match they can choose to invite them to the team and push higher or let it cycle new players in until they find a good fill. It sucks being in RBG-LFG looking for 1 healer or tank for an hour and 7, 8, 9 people are just chilling waiting. I personally hate arenas but love PvP, I imagine there’s a ton of players like me who just don’t enjoy cooldown trading and optimized play for PvP. We still want PvP gear and to have a cool rank titles though and RBG fills that void.

[@donut_s]

So many good points made by Pika in this vid. Normal people aren’t min maxing with all these addons and rotation stuff and still get 95% of their performance. The negative stigma and downers around the game are the main reason that new people aren’t playing. Also never considered how much I put into my fps gaming when I do that (setup, peripherals, settings, etc.). Something which people don’t bring up at all is that you probably need to play for 20-30 hours in any of these games to unlock ranked which is the “main mode”. Easily could level and gear a character in less than 10h in WoW.

[@blaneu]

Pika's wrong in this one. When he mentions peripherals, arm placement, etc., it is just over the top. All you need to touch and enjoy an fps game is a mouse and keeb which don't even need to be good ones. As fir 10 hours to level and gear a character? Lmao. No new player is even leveling to 70 in 10 hours man. Wow is just harsh to new players just as other games of the genre.

[@empressqiyanaa6196]

You have to already be very good to get 95% of your performance in any aspect of the game without addons

[@ppsarrakis]

@@empressqiyanaa6196 yep most people get 80%....

[@Kassadinftw]

I haven't pvp'd for a long time but always enjoyed the gear grind and bg stuff, which exposes you to many of the classes/abilities you'll be dealing with in Arena.

[@MIngalls]

To help healers, blizzard should impliment something that tells DPS when it was their fault haha. Something pops on screen "you died with wall".... "you LOS'd your healer while they were CC'd"... "dont grief the healer, you know what you did"

[@hashiro786]

The only solution i see to fix solo queue is adding healer bots that would replace a player, but it's weird in a ranked match and wont happen. Having a matchmaking system that depend on having a player to play something that most people dont like is the issue there.

[@MrJacob-hs1rm]

I feel like Pikaboo misted the point the Venruki was making. That is other games are hard to start as completly new player as he was saying first time playing fps game. Ye for sure, but you can start learning instantly, while in wow u need to go through leveling, addons, learning 30 skills (your own and all other classes so u know how to react and what to do in every scenario), gear, enchants, talents, use to be glyphs, legendarys etc. And everyone who want take pvp seriously needs to have most of named addons dont pretend you dont. AND THEN you can start learning how to pvp with your class. Not mentioning finding ppl to play with and Q times. Me personaly I would be happy to have system simular to GW2 where you lvl up to 10 I think and then you can go to pvp instance, fully gear up and play pvp as fully geared and setup player, no diferences just skill dif. But thats just my take.

[@Retsu_nightcore]

The ironic thing is: that all that stuff in the Raids and Dungeons that increases the complexity over the addons depends on the fact that DBM had such an massive influence on the gameplay as it appears over the time that Blizz was forced to creates more complex Dungeons and Raids what on the other hand means that u need the AddOn more then before and its all a circle of hell. For me personally, i would also prefer to increase the UI Options from Blizz themself and ban all those addons like in FF14. For me PvP in some points are totally ridiculous, i'm able to track f*cking everything, all CD's of the enemys, the addons tell me when someones pop up in my back and even if i didn't notice it personally i'm able to counter everything while i still showing the enemy my back. I can track the whole Enemy Suqad on the BG and where their going, Experience and strategies in the game are invariably subordinated to the AddOns and that is a great pity.

[@kurisechan88]

The FANBASE is what scares new people away, not the game. The devs really are trying their best with the game itself.

[@СтаниславДмитриев-ы5б]

Lol, when I was a kid, we didn’t have such many vids on KZbin or this amount of tutorials on internet. And we played WOW, we were learning it day by day. We were enjoying levelling and were really surprised by end-game content. We discovered key bindings, macros, addons and the other on our own, no one told us we have such options. We didn’t have any centralised repo and downloaded addons manually from different websites. On top of that there was no localisation and game itself was way less newbe friendly (no quest helper, mounts required higher level, no portals, higher cd on hearthstones). And we were enjoying playing game and our discoveries within.

[@kristagaro]

The video being reacted to is talking about a new player perspective (why no new people is playing retail wow). The guy never talked about the toxicity of the game, he talked about the preparation and how hard it is to actually enjoy WoW if you're a casual player, especially if you're new. I am a casual player, I'm not a good player either but I enjoy playing GW2, ESO Online, FF14, Counterstrike, DOTA, etc. etc. In order to enjoy WoW now you really have to treat it as work because it's becoming more of a chore instead of just having fun playing the game. A lot of people still love playing WoW, only not retail. Do you even know how many casual players play WoW on private servers? No one will pay a monthly subscription for a game that feels more like a chore than a game. That's pretty much what the video is all about. I know that the games I mentioned also require some hard work, but that's only if you're going for records or something or you wanted to be the best. But if you just wanted to enjoy and play then definitely you will enjoy a lot more without any headaches playing some of the games I mentioned, rather than playing WoW retail. I experiment with my builds on GW2, ESO, and FF14 and I can play dungeons with no issues. If you do that in WoW retail then you'll get kicked out. So you have no choice but to go online and study more about how to play your character as Wowhead or other elite sites want you to play them, rather than playing them as how you want to play them. And that's why I stopped playing because I felt like the character I am playing with is no longer mine.

[@Dergonu]

I think you're kind of missing the point. Yes there is a huge skill difference if you join an FPS as a new player. But in wow, there is a time gate with leveling, then when you finally get max level and you can PvP, there is an objective disadvantage with your gear, skill and UI all at once. If you don't have at least bare minimum of addons, you're at a disadvantage. You don't have PvP gear, so vs ppl who do you're at a disadvantage. Then there is the skill diff that is present in other games. That's the problem with wow PvP. In other games, you just work on the skill as you play. If I play an FPS, my guns won't be doing lower dmg to you because you've played longer. They do the same damage. In wow, you have so many layers to it, and that's really intimidating for new players. Having better gear literally makes you stronger, putting new players at an objective disadvantage from the start.

[@lucasmorgan4379]

Such a good way of wording the issue, took my feelings on the issue and put into words👌

[@juice17776]

its not JUST the queue times. WoW still had massive issues before solo shuffle even existed. I’m sure a lot of people were like me and had a friend who tried to get them into WoW, my friend begged me to play and it took like a month to even get to the point where I could play PvP with him. And when I did, I lost every game because I didn’t have gear. Then after quitting and starting about 4 or 5 times. I stuck through for about a month to get to level 120 and get conquest geared after days of losing to fully geared 1300s. I finally enjoyed WoW. Whereas I got recommended League one day, played it immediately, was on a level playing field with the people around me, and immediately got hooked for years.

[@nerdfury6007]

I think the key reasoning why people aren't nice in solo shuffle is because the game is incredibly infuriating to play. If you're a caster running into a lobby with 3 melees and you can't cast a single spell without getting either interrupted or stunned, and you just get sat on. Or you're a melee player going against 3 casters and you just can't do much to control the situation. Or you're a healer who constantly gets CC'd, or even sat on.. and then get cussed out by your teammates for not healing enough while you were CC'd. It's not a fun experience, because the game puts you into a situatiuon that's just plainly NOT fun, especially after a 20-40 minute queue. The lower ratings are even worse in this situation.

[@bg-meet]

I will add one more thing. I am a new player. I've been playing for a few months. I find players very toxic, and not only that. No one is helping you. If by any chance you are with someone in a group, PvP and you make a mistake, they just kick you out. Probably WoW players were born taught how to play and the others are not worthy of attention.

[@Choryrth]

42 minutes in, and yeah the gap between top level play, and "average" play, is immense. something this guy doesn't seem to get, is that players getting into the game, aren't playing "top level play". getting into the game is easy, the gameplay is really simple, all classes are easy to understand (some more than others, clearly), so on and so forth. there are issues, big ones, notably with just how much content there is, and the almost complete lack of direction the game gives. but playing classes isn't the issue in getting people into the game. i think the largest issues are, like you've said, people, including those playing it, constantly talking shit about it, AND the people playing it. and the fact that it's very overwhelming to get into a game, and have literally multiple worlds worth of content in front of you, and the game basically just says "go for it".

[@ZachStachelski13]

Here's what I want. 1. Simplify classes. 2. Remove conquest entirely 3. Remove all "rated" content. (in other words make all content queueable solo) Just have ranked 2v2, ranked 3v3, ranked BGs, and unraked BGs (for when you're stressed on rank) That's all you need. You don't need Blitz, or solo shuffle, or any other random garbage.

[@TheRealDarklock]

Pika's commentary about the WoW community is spot on... it's massively toxic, degend a-holes more or less and if it's not toxic is overly sarcastic and a certain portion of the WoW community outside of PvP are also in that same field about being toxic. "Oh you're not a Cutting Edge, 16x KSM, 20x Gladiator in my +2 Mythic dungeon... you piece of crap noob you suck and kys". As an ancient MMO player (beta tester for Ultima Online) people nowadays have absolutely no... fucking... clue... how amazing WoW is as an MMORPG and how incredibly optimized and on point their programmers and updating and fixing bugs are compared to the old days. The dark days of MMO's were mind boggling horrifying compared to how smoothly WoW operates nowadays as an MMO. On the PvE front, Naguura was talking about M+ and just allowing people to play where M+ needs something like solo shuffle and just let people exist and play and they need to do the same for solo shuffle and I've never understood this negative aspect Blizzard has about people leaving Solo shuffle or M+ ... one person ruins everyones fun --- why!?!?!? Like someone leaves your M+ group... let someone auto-queue into it... or Solo Shuffle, someone has a power outage and ruins the game --- why!??! Person goes offline, gets removed, blip someone new joins and off you go. Blizzard's weird hangup on punishing people at the expense of individuals is this old and outdated crap from older MMO's... adapt and change.

[@nick_cooper]

And this is why Plunderstorm did so well. As a side note I jumped in to some PvP for the first time in years after playing some plunder, and I was like "WTF is going on"... and that is from a long term WoW player

[@cubandarknez]

One of the main complaints levied against MOBAs is the barrier to entry, with all the different characters and abilities. In shooters you can feel pretty good just jumping in and clicking to shoot stuff. There might be some abilities / characters / maps you don't know, but you can get pretty far just shooting stuff. In wow, there are so many different "filter" layers to make people go "nvm I'll go do something else". What is leveling? What are all these expansions? Where do I go? How do I start pvping? What are my main abilities? What are enemy main abilities? If you just want wow for pvp, you are pretty screwed as a new player. Probably better off playing GW2 or just MOBAs for the experience of pressing abilities on a character.

[@pici5533]

I'm trying to do my part in making the game more welcoming. I made an alt and wanted to farm some conquest. Found a rogue who it turns out didn't have any addons installed, soon found out he needed help with bindinds, and macros. Its few days now that I take some time out of my day to help him get his foot in the arena. Im by no means a great player, but I have played on and off for a while and even just offering someone to play with them helps them out a lot. Sometimes you gotta know when to be a sweaty gamer and push, but also when to make choices that will help the community grow.

[@michaelsotomayor5001]

I think the best way to put it is "let me go to McDonalds and just order the apples" you can play the game in a diet mode but YOU DON'T WANT TO DO THAT you DO want to do the weeklies for gear, for pvp, for honor and conquest. you DO want to do the weeklies to upgrade your professions, which by the way was easier back in the day. you DO want to go out and collect EVERY treasure/backpack whatever nodes you call em cuz you do need the items to progress you DO want to at least get some achievements because nowadays you can do stuff to get free monthly mounts bro... you can go to McDonalds and order apples but I know for damn sure you're gonna walk out with a number 1

[@89mso]

I really enjoyed playing WoW, I’ve played since release of villa, quit in cata and started playing again about a month into DF. While totally different than what I was used to playing, the strategic game play of PvP was fun getting back into. I quit again at start of 10.1. There’s a laundry list of issues with the game, but having so many fotm rerollers is tiresome, especially when you wait 45minutes for a queue to pop. I used to complain how long the grind was to level and gear a toon, but I miss that now. The ability to go from 1 to max level and be fully geared in a week made fotm rerollers way to easy. Also I was frustrated with the embellished gear bullshit. I tried for two weeks to figure out how to get the embellished gear, and for some classes it’s essentially mandatory. Also wayyyy to much going on with cc and interrupts, I wish they just released a game like wotlk but with solo shuffle. Remember when holy pallys had ice block and mages had ice block? Now hunters have a bubble essentially, same with rogues, resto seuids (tranq), dhs with the flying bullshit, shamans with burrow, and I’m sure I’m missing a few.. Oh well, I doubt I’ll play again but we’ll see.

[@ghostshell438]

IT WAS NEVER A PHASE! ITS A LIFESTYLE!

[@Choryrth]

realistically, trying to compare a competitive shooter, to literally any other genre of competitive gaming, is pure idiocy. they are nothing the same. wow is an mmo. all mmos have high learning curves, because unlike a shooter where you hop on for a 5 minute match to randomly shoot people, an MMO is something you're committing to. it's not made for 12 year olds, like cod and valorant, and other such games. problem is, over time more and more people are staying extremely immature as they age. you can see this in literally every facet of life now. everything is geared towards an immature, inattentive mind, because that's how people are now. so they look at something that requires paying attention, and learning more than "aim and shoot", and they freak out.

[@NextLevelLawnCare]

its the 37 key binds for a spec and mastering the rotations to be competitive that make it difficult for new players. ive tried to bring friends over to it and they are overwhelmed and get frustrated after a few months then give up.

[@Zeronotion]

They should just give people the option to opt into triple dps mirrors in solo shuffle. That might help with lowering the waiting times and make it optional for people that always wanna play with healers.

[@abcdgump616]

bfa was fine, no one died because tanks were viable (never should be) and healer output was insane, healers were the issue. ssn 1 bfa was actually fine.

[@Kevmoeman]

i think its ok to make damaging/healing easier in pvp is because theres so much shit going on, its ok to have the ez mode damage build the one to use in pvp just to help people pay attention to whats going on beside whats happening with their character

[@ervinurdanetabravo3883]

You mean, make boring?

[@loganbrazzell6683]

No, it's not too complicated. I can pick up any class and figure it out in a half an hour. The only classes I haven't played much during DF is druid and rogue, but could have both to 70 and geared in less than a week. Ban macros across the board, remove addons, stop letting people sell rank and raids. The game is a lot more fun when you actually have to play it. It's fun to feel like you're progressing your knowledge and understanding naturally. That you're the one getting better at the game. They'll never do any of those things because they're afraid of losing the community they have, but they also don't realize that those actions could lead to the game growing to an unexpected level.

[@nickbahl2018]

idk why we cant create a 'pve' or 'pvp' toon. a pvp toon starts at max lvl but can only queue for pvp. maybe they could make a pvp toon start with basic pvp gear OR they could even out all pvp gear and make it 100% based on skill rather than having gear in the equation.

[@Infidel.]

Blizzard simply does not want to do that

[@anba9499]

queue gonna turn you all into philosophers

[@Rizzit]

No not more buttons. 15 should be max. Whats next, 50 buttons? 60 Buttons to deal 100k dmg? Seriously F that.

[@Pokechamp653]

Id argue legion rotations were just as complex we were just like a decade younger

[@mccoyrj452]

Addons also keep the game from being console accessible. That is one thing FF14 is adamant about policing and maintaining. They value their ability to have console players on controllers in all content. Addons have made the UI design and raid design really lazy or hyper focused on designing around it existing, both of which are bad.

[@elar5717]

Lost Ark has truly addressed a key concern at the start of the video. Its arena design revolves around stat distribution, fostering an environment where every player can achieve parity. Beyond that, success relies on knowledge and skill. I believe World of Warcraft should consider incorporating this approach while preserving the essence of tier set upgrades / progression. Perhaps they could introduce a similar system, ensuring a level playing field in terms of immediate access and fair gear configurations, while also providing the gratification of gear progression. Additionally, these sets could be repurposed as PvE sets, allowing PvP-oriented players to participate in PvE content without their gear being a hindrance to their effectiveness.

[@miatomi]

Wow tried all of these things at different times: - "stat templates" - honor gear etc. I don't think it's going to get better than we are now until soloQ expands

[@cainrip89]

​@miatomi except wow did what they famously do.. let me steal a feature from another game and put the blizzard spin on it... until end of cata it worked near everytime except now it's a different dev team and they gotta scuff it.. template's couldn't be customized you were stuck with what they gave you and they didn't give some specs the right stats..lacl of being able to change your stats was the issue not templates themselves

[@elar5717]

@miatomi I wasn't aware wow ever had stat templates in any type of PvP content. Which xpac was this?

[@cainrip89]

@@elar5717 Legion

[@miatomi]

@@cainrip89 you’re right, they did f it up.

[@mrdicelucky528]

I sat here and asked myself, what has changed. 1. Playing with your friend isn’t the same as before, just being together and playing was an accomplishment. If you aren’t to the same caliber or on the same level of content via BG or arenas or high mythics, the friend you’re playing with is “wasting their time” no one is happy to just play with their friend it’s all objective based and if it doesn’t correlate to their objective they have no time for you.

[@mrdicelucky528]

And whether it’s because we are all adults now and we don’t have all the time in the world I understand but it used to be rare just playing with your friends vs it’s so now it’s so frequent it’s forcing us to always have to be pursuing the objective.

[@ronaldwestbeal2269]

I think you need better friends my friends and I play with each other in mythics and raid even if we aren’t the same besides I don’t need to run high keys all the time I need to do lower ones for the fragments

[@walkernotte3019]

I don't like hearing people complain about keybinds, I literally had every button keybound possible and my only complaint was I couldn't have more

[@Cogbyrn]

This video has major Sajam vibes and i honestly love it. I played WoW seriously in Vanilla through WorLK, then off and on since, as well as all kinds of fighting games the past several years. So many games can be made to SEEM hard because new players get firehosed by content online. When you get into a fighting game, all you need to do is press punches and kicks and try some special moves and have fun. When you first get into WoW, pick a class that looks cool, find the spec with the coolest spells and play it. Have fun. You'll learn enough over time, but you START with "what is cool". For me, i love lightning, so I'm back on my Ele Sham and having an amazing time. Is it the optimal spec? No. But I'm not aiming for rating, I'm just getting some sea legs and enjoying myself. All of this makes me want to start a casual positive WoW stream. Not that it would gain any traction but i would love putting the positivity out there.

[@Kmaitland89]

The biggest problem I have with the “it’s too complicated” is, THIS IS WHAT MMO’s ARE. I like the character development of MMOS. Ff14 has “do 300 hours of story to play the game, trust me it’s worth it” and you know what? IT IS!

[@herrpdurrp]

For fps games you really don't need to adjust anything. Your monitor settings translate among all of them, the only thing you need to adjust is mouse sensitivity and you're good to go. I've been playing wow since vanilla, and I recently had a friend get into wow for the first time. He was insanely overwhelmed and if he didn't have us to walk him through it all he would have quit 100%. Even if he watched hours worth of youtube videos to figure out addons, spec, gearing + stats, stats, the 30 min shuffle queues and lack of io/arena achieves would prevent him from playing the game.

[@ppsarrakis]

i just stopped watching when he started about how many settings an fps gamer has to change... lol "vsync" ,not even the slightest comparable.

[@darijanjamak2632]

Its more that pvp is complicated to become competitive. Wow is a pve game first and is pretty casual friendly in this regard. This is true for most games that are PVE focused, its usually not super easy to get into the pvp niche of it

[@Gabriel-it5jy]

Took a five year or so break from wow for Apex and i dove headfirst into DPI mice and mouse pads lol… I think part of what I like about games is finding that sweet spot with add-ons or peripherals. I definitely feel like this can be a barrier for some people though. That’s why there’s console. lol.😊

[@mortarion4555]

I am a Chinese player and I play WoW PvP, I played this game since 2005, got 2.6k exp in 3s. As you may know they shut down the Chinese server 1 year ago, recently I decided to try out Dragonflight on NA server, so I created a fresh new account at the start of this season. I remaked my entire UI, worked very hard to farm gold via mining, to buy all the enchantments, gems and crafted gears etc that I need for PvP, now I can finally play the game. But I have no teammates here, so I play solo shuffle. Although I feel a bit rusty cuz this one year gap not playing the game, and it took forever to queue, still I managed to reach 2.2k last week, overall I'm doing okay and having fun. That is until they drop this new legendary axe, and it's better than the conquest weapons in PvP, like WTF??? Based on my exp about the devs, they are gonna balance DK/Pal/Warr damage assuming these classes already have the legendary axe don't they? Now I have to farm another 1 million gold and do all these PvE stuff to really play the game without being punished for not having that damn axe, that feels really great, thx Blizzard.

[@abcdgump616]

another issue is the entire game is played and decided around burst cooldowns and "goes", most of the playerbase does not like or enjoy this, you need more pve damage and less stacking buffs/ damage amplifiers. people can claim its more skill as it is now but its not, its boring and feeds the zoomer brain from the dopamine hits when wow was built on the slower paced gameplay with longer TTKs that involved a real back and forth and actual counterplay existing due to people not losing 20% or more of their hp in a global.

[@komcrazi]

The self proclaimed "Multi-Blizzcon loser" so nonchalantly was too good.

[@grahamvandyke]

So I know what attracted me to playing WoW for the first time in 2005 watching my college dorm mate fly around Azeroth on a flight path was the sheer size and scale of the game; it is MASSIVE. People who start playing WoW become completely immersed in the complexity of it all and can't wait to explore everything. Looking towards playing at the end game is actually not a high priority for new players I imagine.

[@empressqiyanaa6196]

That’s true. The first time I played, I spent months leveling and just discovering the massive world (it wasn’t even back then when leveling would take a lot of time, i just didn’t care about reaching endgame, exploring the areas and just walking around, sometimes talking to NPCs and doing quests was so fun)

[@grahamvandyke]

@@empressqiyanaa6196 The true magic of WoW is the entire world and all the people you meet along the way. The end game is actually just the cherry on the cake.

[@davew2040x]

You have to get hooked on WoW and then SERIOUSLY COMMIT to arenas for it to even start being compelling. Everybody who’s not deeply invested will invariably just bounce off of PvP because you spend so much time just getting totally annihilated for unknown reasons, even at low CR, before you start to see patterns in what’s going on.

[@mshepherd324]

@@davew2040x i think also, a good portion of people that are willing to tolerate that experience and make it out the other side are aso returning players, not new. i quit(ish) in wod and im currently in the position youve described, but the only reason i stick around to actually learn it is because ive done it before and felt the reward.

[@Julez3133]

To your yelp analogy. Imagine if the regulars of that restaurant said "oh yeah its shit but ive been coming here for years so i still eat here :/"