This was Embarrassing to Watch... | Pika Reacts

Asmon Vid: • It's Dead: Why Blizzar...
Bellular Vid: • World of Warcraft PvP ...
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Outro Song: All Fires - Don't Say Manhattan
Edited by / planktoned
#goldenguardians #wowpvp #pikaboo

[@drunksailor3908]

Kinda jealous of Pika for not knowing who Bellular is.

[@tekamer6566]

trueeee

[@Fabolousyo]

Who

[@Rudbeckbitten]

Bellular talks about so much random stuff in his vids, that i fall asleep

[@drjagged]

This is kinda crazy, but I love bellular

[@bicboy17]

Haha that’s so funny

[@aunahsan1465]

Pika is out here having fun with the game while everyone else is insufferable.

[@ColdColdColdGround]

100% agree

[@simpleman7516]

The insufferable ones always look fat depressed lonely losers that based their whole personality on a dead game and come out with zero life skills except for complain record post. 💯

[@Giggles4692]

Pika agreed that pvp is near impossible to get into for new players

[@Beeeeesh]

Facts lol

[@stewie4467]

extreme blizzard glazer cope

[@grenzle2428]

This is why i love pika. Always optimistic against people who are talking out of their ass 70% of the time.

[@evg3nius]

They were not talking out of their ass. While they have no clue about PVP they can look at those numbers and easily say, yup, the pvp participation is it's lowest and it's going down. You dont even need to compare to M+, just look at the data trend lines.

[@kluasvt828]

@@evg3nius But those numbers and graphs were crazy screwed. 24 thousand of games per week for the top 5% of pvp'ers? Call me crazy but that ain't all that bad. It's not as big as m+, clearly, but still doing alright.

[@intenzityd3181]

Of course he is optimistic this is his job 😂😂 and it's not like he can do anything else. Bellular is annoying af but it's hardly controversial to point out that no one is playing retail. I think blizzard are in trouble when they move to classic cata and war within.

[@Supremed9]

@@evg3nius They are absolutely talking out of their ass.

[@iv9ry]

​@kluasvt828 they didn't technically say it was bad, in fact they said it's okay. Just in comparison with the previous season its not holding as many players which is why in comparison its "dying"

[@Themurphyshow7]

Pika is the only one who can watch a video for twenty minutes, eating a sandwich, completely confused the whole time, then come out with a conclusion that is much more insightful than either two people commenting on the subject before him

[@bendeschutter1084]

"shuffle is 2v2's" 💀

[@oldrin1876]

This video is hilarious. Pika is so god damn funny

[@skatarin1690]

Yea 🤣 he seems lost sometimes

[@Uchiha_Cloaky]

me reacting to a dude reacting to a dude reacting to a dude reacting to news

[@oSawmurai]

"news"

[@Uchiha_Cloaky]

@@oSawmurai "wow news"

[@florenskoschinski2862]

me reacting to your comment

[@VIP-Exciusive]

Reacting to propaganda *

[@Uchiha_Cloaky]

@@VIP-Exciusive lmao

[@stratus1249]

im so glad pika exposed bellular ,its embarrassing how long bell has gotten away with it

[@vanyel_etc8695]

Got away with what exactly? Both asmon and bellular haven't pvped in the last 2+ expansions. Bellular is a lore KZbinr talking about random shit. Asmon is a variety streamer talking about random shit. Neither are current pvpers.

[@Da5kone001]

@@vanyel_etc8695 saying asmon hasnt pvped in 2 xpacs is hillarious when he has glad titles

[@Dying4pie2180]

​@@Da5kone001who boosted him?

[@vanyel_etc8695]

@@Da5kone001 he literally doesn't have glad titles from the last 2 expacs lol

[@evg3nius]

Yup lets ask the players who still participate in a dead game mode, why is it dead? No, you need to ask players who used to play and then quit. It'll help you understand why people no longer want to engage with WoW PVP. In the replies here i see a common theme "just make the Queue pop" LMAO. Why do you think it doesn't pop? Cause there ain't enough people. So you need to bring people in and queue will start popping. Why is the number of people who are interested in PVP is so low?

[@Arkatos127]

bellular used to make fun content, i watched him years ago(atleast i remember it that way) then he was making a quest voice-over addon for WoW and blizzard has blocked it due to some copyright issues, he has been on crusade about "wow is dead" ever since

[@fujiwhara-]

bad pvpers complain about a game mode they don't play. bellular's content so toxic, insane he has that many subs..

[@gregjross852]

I used to really enjoy his content but now he just drama farms

[@blackopsy9]

Nobody besides the people who splooge to WoW hate watch him anymore, most of his subs were from when he still covered WoW news. He hasn't had a good take on anything for the past 3 years minimum.

[@critshowcritner9103]

Go Browns

[@WoWUndad]

3 nights this week I decided to grind honor before s4, all nights ending before any pvp because 40+ min bg and epic bg ques. Keep telling yourself the game isn't dead

[@zizouwowist1641]

@@gregjross852 he had too so asmon will react to him and he stay relevant, asmon isnt reacting about anything goof for wow witch make you think

[@kellywilson1589]

what was on the fucking sandwich my guy? looked like three slices of bread with one slice of cheese and one slice of shaved meat. like... tf? where was the meat? and no drink with all that bread? was this sandwich a fucking dare?

[@AJD-od9nq]

Needs put on a list 😂

[@tecTitus]

In TBC it felt like PVP was 50% of the game, either you got picked for raids or you sat in shattrath and did arena. Arena was a great way to gear up for many expansions for me. Could catch up with the PVE gods quickly, and be ready for raids within a couple of weeks mid-season. The toxic behaviour is for sure the turn off by most players. Was hovering around 1800 forever, on and off for years, playing with randoms. Twice, I teamed up with with lasting teammates, and it was easy to get to 2200-2400 area. Coming back in DF, 3 years later, it was more toxic than ever. People are just unable to chill down and learn together. Mistakes is what arena is all about at any level, if all else is in balance. Good luck ever finding a team for RBG as a new player.

[@brentyoung813]

World of Warcraft PvP if understood is the most addicting challenging and replayable thing I’ve ever played

[@CraZeKllutchy]

"if understood" is an insanely massive caveat though. lmaooo this game is not only overcomplicated by it's abilities and systems, it's also overcomplicated by addons. way too many barriers to entry for new players or existing players aspiring to get into pvp.

[@bigpoopies789]

True there is no other game that can scratch the same itch as WoW pvp.

[@Herogames2022]

@@CraZeKllutchy Retail is Wotlk-Cata-Mop its not like that People dont know how good it was in those Expensions the Screen is empty you have Gladius and your Nameplates thats it now a Days when i watch a Stream once in Six Month and see the Screen i close it in 2 Min because its so Hektik and wierd to watch..

[@ofadetergentsud]

Bellular has always been very unprofessional whilst pretending to be very professional and that's what makes him so cringe. He has these professional presentations of emotional rants and that's why I stopped watching years ago. Don't let the glasses fool you. He's not a logical person.

[@Shitnuts492]

You basically described Asmongold as well.

[@SieRowl]

Bro back in mop I was on the wow arena forums and arena junkies all thr time. I had arena forums up on the school laptop in class in 9th grade. I remember seeing a stat that in s14 or s15 the total number of characters that had played a game of arena was 250k - 300k. That's individual characters, not accounts. Pvp has never been popular in this game. However, it felt like it was back then. Pvp vendors in contested pvp zone, heaps of people used to sirlt in Elwynn and Durotar spam duelling all day. The entirety of mop I never even did SoO a single time, I was literally in Elwynn dueling all day and qing 2s. 100% agree that wow arena is just physically impossible to get into. I've played wow since fucking 2012 and got 2200 in s15 but can't queue arena for the life of me because the diehard 3s players I used to queue with dont play anymore and LFG is a joke. I actually met up with someone in real life that I met on wow. He ended up getting Gladiator eventually. That's the kind of person you need to know if you want to play 3s in this game.

[@W1lson12]

you know what, that shit never stopped. we still here in Gs qin 2s and bgs shits fun man

[@iaxdy9822]

Those two guys barely play wow and only play at an average level at best. They just pull out stats and talk nonsense based on what they think stats say, not what the experience is because they have no experience.

[@Dinkslayer681]

Anecdotal evidence isn't really good either. I do agree that these schmucks are trying to get views but queues are 40 minutes. Pvp isn't thriving by any means

[@Wellshem]

@@Dinkslayer681 healer in pvp aren't thriving, it's a pain in the ass to heal

[@CraZeKllutchy]

you can lack experience, and still take an objective look at how pvp is lacking in too many areas.

[@stewie4467]

You have no idea what you're talking about and it shows lmao.

[@Dinkslayer681]

@@Wellshem I am a healer lol. My queues are fine in just saying In general. In fact, I started healing in vanilla because I was tired of waiting on tanks and healers all the timr

[@vaylox09]

Asman doesnt play wow and bellular doesnt pvp. Im having a blast in pvp. Every game is hard to get into. Have you ever played LoL of Dota 2 with no prior MoBA experience? Play CS2 with no fps experience or map/gun experience and ur fucked. Ppl act like wow is impossible to learn ive gotten to 2k which isnt high in several season with like 3 addons no WA's as a 30 year old gamer.

[@Boss-ot1iy]

An intelligent comment. Such a rare thing to see from the people that play this game

[@VDViktor]

2k is nothing tho, so not sure how that supports your argument in any way

[@lynyrdskinyrd]

30 lol ur a BOOMER

[@Aurrs]

bellular barely even plays the game also, not just doesnt play pvp, ppl have found his characters and he hasnt logged on in months

[@vanyel_etc8695]

​@@VDViktor2k is nothing? Are you stupid? Lol 2k is a single digit percent of players.

[@backhairisbeautiful2253]

the biggest issue for wow pvp will always be barrier to entry...not difficulty...difficult in pvp will always scale....a lobby full of actual 1400 players will same difficulty for them....gearing is the biggest issue...should not be a thing in a pvp game. 2nd biggest issue is addons. Get rid of addons...get rid of gearing.....soloque will pop off.

[@therockontheshelf]

Theres several reasons new people arent joining. As someone who played a bit in DF season 1 then stopped and just came back part way through season 4 to mess around in pvp allow me to offer my thoughts. The entire concept of pvp gearing is fundamentally flawed. Unless you started at the beginning of a season and have only one char, or have ridiculous amounts of free time your willing to spend on grinding you must suffer through grinding bgs just to get honour gear first. Yes this is muuuuuch faster now than it has been in the past but still. And that's from the perspective of someone who is a returning player, not a new player. As a brand new player the complexity of the gearing system alone would be massively off-putting, enchants, gems, embellishes, crafted gear, (often very strong pve gear mixed in for top competitors). Then theres conquest gear which again furthers the gap. If your a good player or even just not new, you can grind conquest reasonably fast, but new players? You get no conquest for losing.. All this system does is make it so the good/experienced players gear up much much faster further widening the gap. The new player can ONLY match the same rate of gear acquisition (assuming theres a weekly cap) if they have plenty of time they are willing to spend on one char, losing 95% of the time gaining a few hundred conquest a day and can play every day. And thats IF you start at the beginning of a season.. join half way or toward the end and your up against everyone in full conquest with their crafted and pve stuff on top of the fact your new and dont know what your doing. FAR TOO MANY THINGS. Ability bloat is out of control. Multiple addons are a full on requirement. This is just laziness on blizzards part they should have officialised most of these addons, such as Gladius and omni etc years ago incorporating them into the base options menu with much more user friendliness in mind. Problem is the top pvp players dont want this to change. Because they are the ones in many cases having been playing more than a decade. They know all their abilities by heart, know their keybinds by heart, in many cases have played multiple classes/specs to high rating and know what everyone elses class/spec can do, (which is a huuuge part of pvp it is not enough to just know what your own character can do). Because of all these factors this creates a huge skill ceiling that allows them to really shine, winning 1v2s etc. Far too much micro CC, gap closers, mobility tools etc. Not enough distinction between classes roles, eg why rogues and mages have so much self healing/absorption ability I have no idea. When i first played I mained shaman cos i thought oh thats cool im a dps that can heal myself... Well no every other dps seems to not only be heal themselves but can do it more or less passively without sacrificing damage, while also having multiple defensives. Now what can be done to bring in new players? Obviously we cant just radically change wow pvp fundamentals or it wont be wow pvp anymore, but there are some things that I think would help new players out. Get rid of conquest gearing entirely or make it cosmetic stuff only. No pve gear in pvp. No enchants, gems, embellishments etc that shit is for pve. Keep the current system of having any gear scale to X amount in pvp, with honor gear very fast to obtain and being the highest lvl of pvp gear available. (or ideally just make honor gear fully free as well) after all I dont see why pvp even needs a gearing system like pve to begin with. Everyone on equal footing gear wise all the time for pvp. Some kind of solo queue mode vs bots. Something that allows new or returning players to play a few slower paced matches against bots to get comfortable and test their setup. (Not being able to test your addon setups etc properly without actually being in a live arena match is bad..) Maybe even have a pause feature so players can hover over abilities to see what they do during the match? I get that arena skirmish is kinda supposed to play this role but its still vs players who will crush a newbie without a second thought. Imagine if Blizz made some offer to new or returning players where they get a free max lvl char and get access to both a full set of the current pvp gear as well as a full set of "decent" pve gear, enough for Raid finder at least. An inbuilt addon I forget what its called where it shows them their priority system/rotation in real time that they can use to learn and then turn off if they want later. Remove the total dependency on 3rd party addons. I can only say that from my own experience who played a bit during original WotLK, cata, some MoP, mostly in WoD and then came back for S1 DF then left before S2, I watched soo many wow pvp videos, a lot of pika and xaryu and I constantly had the urge to go pvp again but that nostalgic urge was constantly stifled by the immediate realization that "Oh but id have to grind bgs at low gear for ages, dont know what most of the abilities to watch our for are anymore, will need to reset my UI and keybinds and setup addons again, is it part way through the season? Oh im gonna be in honor vs full conquest gear for ages. Can I find a team to play instead of queueing half an hour for shuffle? Oh no everyone and their dog is a multi R1 and only wants to play with other R1s and only with the classes that are the meta that season... I cant even imagine what it would be like for a brand new player interested in pvp. Its not just unwelcoming its outright hostile to anyone that hasnt been playing for years.

[@tecTitus]

Arena is the best game. Losing feels like shit, winning feels like you're on top of the world.

[@everythingoutdoorslive]

As someone who's currently 2650 in SS & diamond in league, league is more unbalanced. I swear if they brought back arena tournament servers from different snippets of the game, Mop, Cata & ran them as seasons people would blast it.

[@smote_81]

bro, 'professional haters' is 100% accurate. thanks for your positive and fun content, followed during plunderstorm , cheers

[@federicothompson2299]

I can't wait for his video on what to expect in the second trimester of pregnancy

[@Yangtohell]

I think for learning PvP Blizzard could make a thing like scenarios back in MoP where they could teach new players how their class works in PvP

[@Spartacus.D]

Top 5% of PvP players = 130,000 people all mythic keys ran in 1 week = 1 million? wtf is going on

[@Themurphyshow7]

Where did you get that?

[@JeRkRevolution]

top 5% is 5000 in 3v3. The 130k is total ppl playing solo shuffle.

[@sean9267]

Cataclysm PvP was extremely popular. That's actually all me and my buddies did. Ran 5 Blood DKs into RBGs and one shot people with Death Strike. Fire mage was nutty with old combustion. Hansol has old vids of it. But yeah, all of my fondest memories of WoW PvP were from Panda and prior.

[@Iautocorrect]

I'll never forget arcane mage from cata.

[@Fyrewerkx]

Would be awesome to see some of the pros of PvP to do go through a basics guide to arena and go through everything that a new player needs to know. The think a huge barrier to entry is the sheer amount of information that the player has to take in order to be effective. For people who played the game for years it is just something we are use to, but for new players it can seem like information overload. A video from someone like Pika explaining how and why he sets up and uses his UI would be great for new players would be awesome, as well as showing us things that he is looking out for in a match would help newbies show what the need to pay attention to. It might seem basic, but I can imagine that hearing this with someone as much prestige as Pika would go a long way at attracting new players into the game and show them that it isn’t as complicated as it appears. I remember when I was getting into M+ I would watch hours of Growl videos showing how he sets up his UI, the basic game play of the class and how he approaches encounters. For a newbie this information was soooooo valuable and allowed me improve my gameplay 100 fold.

[@whoissterling]

Now days that’s locked behind a sub, hidden weakauras, tricks aren’t passed down, a lot of arena knowledge is gate kept, most high elo wow players will laugh at you, require you to pay for coaching and preceded to call you boosted and tell you to just play. It comes down to dedication and luck when looking for serious dedicated teammates to grow with.

[@cainrip89]

"How long are solo shuffles" Guy who thought shuffle had 12 people staring cross-eyed into the camera "uhhhhhh"

[@VkaraujoHusk]

The guy is reacting to Asmongold and complains about "wow hate farm". Bell is easily one of the more fair creators. He is not my favorite, but the Bellular hate in these comments are totally unwanted for.

[@kipz]

what does unwanted for mean?

[@kipz]

i guess you meant unwarranted

[@shamlotbestrhapsever7437]

Plunderstorm is "dead" because it is on an archaic subscription model. Blizzard is shooting themselves in the foot if they don't learn the basics of modern gaming economics: make Plunderstorm FTP (Free-to-play), stand alone, and make those who still have a WoW subscription gain transmogs as additional incentives, otherwise new players can play for skins. Fortnite meets WoW is a potential success if it was ACCESSIBLE in the modern game-o-sphere!

[@HayeDel]

Agreed Blizzard are so short sighted in stuff like this.

[@Korupcija]

because that's not their plan, they made this for wow players - basically a lot of games do this now and blizzard is catching on it, where you have these limited time events that come and go during lull, not sure if you play league but riot does this with URF, arena, nexus blitz, one for all etc., it's a really good system imo

[@denizyandim609]

@@Korupcija but league is free?

[@maxpowers4436]

Lmao fkn relax its a limited time event and its obviously in a test phase. Its not supposed to last atm. Talking about how a limited time event is "dead" when it was designed that was is tarded.

[@wowsew]

Hard disagree. Wow has stayed the same for all time without inflation compensating.

[@bodircacezar6071]

Thanks for the clip man. That's really all Bellular is nowadays: a professional hater. Anyway, fyi, most of his sub base is from when all his videos were about WoW Lore and theories around it.

[@deejkeithanmusic]

Yea those 3 don't know what they're talking about. People play WoW PvP bc it is better than other games.

[@Boss-ot1iy]

No, the correct answer is: people play wow pvp because they're extremely below average and they don't wanna see that they're iron in Val, Silver in CS, Silver in Overwatch, or even contender in Fort arena. Wow has by far the least skilled people of any game and so it's much easier for a below average player to excel in this game for both pvp and pve.

[@user-vw8nv8mg7c]

Those 2 guys dont....but people play wow pvp because they like it. Objectively wow pvp is dogshit

[@kylesmith987]

I use to play a lot of wow pvp back in the WOTLK-MOP days and i left for other games because they had better pvp experiences. It is just not true that WoW PvP is better. It can never be better then a game that focuses all of its effort on nothing but pvp when blizzard barely puts any effort into pvp especially these days. Not saying i hate WoW just that wow will never be a better pvp game then the likes of LoL, Valorant, Apex, etc. These games are also significantly more approachable then WoW is which makes them easy to get into have a better stream of new players.

[@tekamer6566]

@@Boss-ot1iy bro you got no statistics on that. Im near divine in Dota 2 and was master guardian 1 in CS and i love playing wow pvp. Your claim is pure uneducated speculation. Most wow players play other games too hence the dropoffs upon big events or new releases

[@Boss-ot1iy]

@tekamer6566 Master guardian is alright in cs lol. You're just above gold nova and I'm lem. I don't need statistics because it's logic. The best players will always go where the money is. If you're actually good at a game then you'll go where it matters. Most people cars too much about money but there are some that don't. The truth is that wow players are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of skill

[@davidlewis3422]

It’s quite saddening this is happening to another game I love. The same thing happened to the division 1 & 2. In Div 1 ALOT of players were in the dz. You can ask Div 2 players if they pvp or know anything about it and it’s the same situation with wow. “There is PVP?” And such.

[@danieljohnson3448]

Hearing these three guys debate PvP sounds like Riley Reid talking about being a virgin

[@lethalpotato6216]

i'm so glad Pika gets as angry as me watchingllular lol, i was thinking the same sht watching it. Pika we

[@christophercolumbus2387]

42:18 imagine a new player trying to learn the game from watching Chanimal, they would get so confused and never play

[@christophercolumbus2387]

Also another big point in watching wow PvP isn't even just the addons and UI, there's not really any clear feedback for most abilities. Say you kidney someone, a new player has 0 clue what button you just pressed or even what it does. Some stuff like rootbeam do it pretty well, its clearly a bad thing to stand in but most of it I probably couldn't tell you what happened It takes so much game knowledge to see when someone did something really skillful that it's just not interesting to watch

[@smartflexer]

WoW PVP is dead, just get over it and find a new game already. WoW PvP will never get new blood in the game, so yeah its dying. I stopped PVP 2 weeks after Shadowlands release and I been playing WoW since TBC 2007, I even stop playing retail after 2 weeks of Shadowlands. There are SO many other better games out there for PvP, but I guess all the "Elites" are so proud of their game and never find anything other then WoW being good, sad lifes. But hey, its not to late to try other games.

[@kneti1337]

hilarious to watch Pika being flabbergasted by the non existent knowledge they have :D

[@meatwad2468]

This is so funny really goes to show how cooked some of their takes are

[@arimala]

In vanilla, pvp definitely felt more popular. Lots of people that raided would take their raid gear into bg's to have fun with it, seemed like that's how the game was played... no one cared about speed running crap or this parsing nonsense... It was chill with your friends in a raid group, then form a smaller group to go into bg's to test out the new gear you all got.

[@backtrakk2121]

there wasnt arenas until BC, so it was group pvp or get ganked in Silverpine or STV, but yeah its a fair point

[@vaylox09]

In TBC ppl still did world pvp did bgs in raid gear. There were more ppl interested in pvp and less options for pvp. Wow was the PC game to play until cata and slowly died off in wod.

[@intenzityd3181]

Pvp was way more popular until around cata or mop. The mlg arena games in tbc and wotlk were getting hundreds of thousands of concurrent viewers. Wow has never achieved anything like that since. Raiding has always been a very niche part of the game.

[@Loghtar2391]

Pvp in vanilla was just world pvp randomly or the community doing some events. Who talks about Vanilla pvp has a good thing never played it and it was garbage.

[@sinnis4993]

there are many in sod and wotlk who care about parses. please dont lie.

[@zizouwowist1641]

i can't stop commenting pika is so on point about self hate, they don't allow themselvs to be happy so they complain about anything,

[@neji275]

i used to pvp back when classes werent so complicated, now for me to get into pvp i have to know which pvp talents to take, get the pvp gear, know every move of every class. its to much time for me to care and learn to play pvp. back then i jumped in with normal gear and would just go have fun. cant really do that now. youll never get a kill. classes are also so bloated with abilities now. no thanks im good.

[@olivurpoulsen6746]

i actually kinda disagree. Very true its so much to know and learn. But if ur smart, you see whats going on. Its very easy to learn your from your mistakes super fast just by using Details. I.E you died and the demon hunter turned pitch black. You go under buffs in details and hower over something called Metamorphisis and lo and behold it gives him a fuck ton of dmg. I guess next time i see a DH turn pitch black i should run or pop a defensive. Rinse repeat for everymistake and can super fast get to a decent skill level. or this is my method atleast and works for me everytime. i tend to take long breaks from WoW 3-5months at a time. and always get back into my former skill level superfast by just using details and checking deathlog. In the end you just have to play and learn from mistakes. Sure if u que up and die 1000 times to a DH going into meta and you never understand why. then your shit out of luck to ever improve

[@jasonburnsfitness]

Pika talking about people leaving the game in BG Blitz gave me a flashback to my match a couple nights ago when it was a 4v8 after half my team left

[@lifescaption]

It definitely depended your server, but PvP felt much more present the first few expansions. My dad was always in TM/SS wars, multi day AVs, city raids, etc - and even when I joined late BC and played most between then and like S2 Legion, I recall the largest presence and most active friend group for me of similar minded individuals LK thru MOP and a bit of a resurge in Legion and then it fell off by multiplicative chunks with the xpacs that followed. And with Classic release; I had a similar experience with Grobb & also on a LK private server prior to Classic.

[@joshuadaniel6496]

Dude, if Solo Shuffle queues were instant, or two minutes, or wtf ever, just short, the number of games would skyrocket. Myself and other people I know would rather play SS for four hours than raid or m+, but most not if most of that time is spent waiting. PIka nailed it.

[@connorthomas4826]

I agree with Pika... The reason most people don't PvP is because there is a social element to it that they don't like... Hence the reason SS is so popular... and also the same reason M+ players complain about never getting accepted into a key instead of just starting their own group.

[@squarednce]

Always hate. Things fall apart. Wow is dead every other week. Bullshit. Thanks Pika taking it apart, don’t get sucked into this mindset.

[@HideXseeksWontpeek]

Been playing since launch I do all content in the game pvp being my favorite I’m currently 1800 in 3s 2s and rbgs I don’t do solo shuffle had a bad experience and decided to stay away but honestly I think any game where the pvp is basically the same maybe more or less ability’s added in at different times over a 20 year period it’s not gonna feel fresh and the game is way to complicated for new players tried to get my brother to play but having 20 keybinds to learn when your coming from a console set up can be demoralizing

[@mis8866]

Idk why anyone would listen to Asmongold about the state of pvp, he literally paid 2 blizzcon champions to help him get a gladiator title (not even when glad was a cutoff too, the new glad title thats like only 2400 lmao) and it still took both of them OVER ONE THOUSAND GAMES to get him there. So i don't think he should ever chime into a conversation about pvp. The only reason people do pve over pvp is because pve doesn't require a brain. People want easy rewards fast, PVE will give them that. But no one will ever really respect your name in game, unless you have a r1 title, doesn't matter how many mythics you've cleared, no rank 1 title = you don't mean shit in game.

[@ic3t3ap3ach]

already saw this but have to say omfg 😂 these takes sometimes

[@JeRkRevolution]

Okay so based on these graphs, 130k is amount of ppl total in solo shuffle NA games per week and the 3v3 graph is matches played by the top 5000 ppl (2200 mmr and higher per week). So for fun if u take the most recent number on the 3v3 graph 16,403 and consider that accounts for 5000 ppl when there are 109k ppl on the NA ladder total. If you say the rest of the people playing would play the same amount of games per 5000 you would get 357,597 3v3 games per week. Obviously the amount of games played per week by the rest of the ladder isnt going to match the top 4.5% of players (I would wager 1200-1800 mmr play a lot more per week, and some people on the ladder dont play at all on any given week) but its still good ballpark math. Based off of said ballpark math there's 2,275,582 ppl NA playing 3v3 and solo per week versus 5 mil NA per week in m+. Almost half the amount (without 2v2 or RBG). However theres also 10s of thousands of ppl that play like 10 games per season lol. If I had to guess id say theres probably somewhere around 500k to 1 mil ppl playing pvp across all modes at least once per week NA. What do u guys think?

[@Bloodyhawk1992]

if a person whos playing the game for a living every day of the year, several hours per day, is saying the barrier to entry is too hard, he even cant understand whats going on at all times, we maaaaybe have a problem yes. even these people have ui´s nobody whos watching can understand anything. My solution would be where they have it like warmane. everbody has more or less the same gear, nobody has to farm for it you can just buy it. you can skip waiting time in arena if all people press a button. you have consumes like healthstone in your bag as soon as you enter so you dont have to do it. you have designated areas where you can duel and your cd´s are reset after the duel. we maybe cut out a few abilities, or rather debuffs and buffs etc. then pvp maybe has a future where you can log on and play

[@shiro2400]

I think it all just boils down to: no one is actually enjoying the gameplay anymore and queues don't pop. People are constantly watching R1s and top parsers and thinking their experience will be close to that lol. Just enjoy the game at ur own level/pace. MoP, imo, was the best/active pvp expansion next to legion. Wpvp was alive, world events were relative, arenas were active, being social was a thing still lmao, class was balanced in the sense that everyone basically nuked each other with basically no GCD back then, and there were challenge mode/MT/heroic/mythic raid introduction. And yeah those guys are basically info YT content creators lol. I wouldn't trust their opinion on PVE or PVP. It's like Apex Legends, there are cheaters on it and sometimes queues are long when u get into the higher ranks. But it's still active because people enjoy the game and don't care TOO much about winning or losing. And there lies another problem within WoW: everyone cares WAY too much about winning/losing that it makes for a shitty environment to play lol. I don't find it surprising that healers stop queuing when team mates are constantly flaming them every single queue

[@her0268]

Pikaboo is right about PvP not being accessible easily, a few months ago when the botting problem was huge, I queued for the first time ever for a solo shuffle game. It took 25 minutes, and I got kick botted to oblivion, lost in under 5 minutes. Haven't touched it since.

[@Arth950]

Give it a second chance it is fun

[@eupvpcontent733]

Just make solo shuffle 1 game per que ggwp on warmane it works perfectly

[@stonehallow]

He's right I've played since vanilla and always loved arena. It was 50% of the game in the sense that it was really the only thing you could do after raid night but that didn't mean people would do it. It was never that popular I would have to beg people after raids were over to log in and do arena during the week just to be able to play the game between raids. People would just want to raid log and come back next week.A lot of these players would also moan and not show up for raids on hard mode progression bosses as well to be fair. The only time you'd see pve players doing pvp between raids was if there was a bis piece that was pvp only for that tier and blizz put a stop to that by making pvp gear only good for pvp. I had friends that had played since vanilla quit at the end of mop and never come back because there was "nothing to do between raids" and they would refuse to do arena.

[@yyoksetioxd]

plunderstorm was easy to queue, easy to watch, a separated game mode and died in 3 weeks. The issue is way more deep.

[@baltasarmelchor935]

That the professional circuit is the same almost in 20 years says it all. with the same actors. Those who are at the top will continue to be at the top.

[@totallyrealname6376]

That dude wasn't wrong about search engines though; whenever you search something the top 5 answers are now AI generated, the next five are targeted ads, and the next five are bias sources about an irrelevant topic.

[@purputpurputpurput7318]

They need to make separate specs/talents for PvP and PvE so most of the aoe/movement/cc comes from PvE talents and classes feel different. They can add mogs or good gearing options for PvE earnable from PvP so more people have incentives to play it

[@Handsomebastard69]

What got me into PVP as a young man was firstly PVP videos on youtube, and secondly standing around in goldshire just dueling people non-stop, barely anyone just hangs around in places like that anymore, partly cause of layering, I used to see people in merciless PVP gear and be like god DAMN I wanna look like that.

[@aic20]

the amount of copium in the comments and honestly from the pvp community. arena is dying... it had a good run, not many game modes and games last 15+ years but be happy it happened. Ion already confirmed on war within alpha interview that rated solo rbgs (blitz) is now their main focus for pvp, and i love that approach. bgs are way more fun and blitz was enjoyable

[@TheOaxOaxOax]

And when pikaboo said every game is hard for the new players.. Differnece is how Long it takes you to learn that game.. In league you have one map, 5 button, Page with what Hero counters, what counters that Hero, what talents you should play etc.. In WOW you have 50 spells to learn.. You have to lvl, do tons of hsit sekund so you have to play

[@Tiptoess]

Friend issue is why I never pvped until solo shuffle came out all of my friends I play with are strictly pve and trying to get them to even attempt or try pvp is like taking their first born child

[@russ769]

PvP was very popular back in Vanilla. Majority of players back then were playing on PvP servers.

[@bojnebojnebojne]

The problem most games suffer from is not their complexity, it's the pacing of delivering information to the player and pacing a new players experience in order to 1. Not bore them so they keep playing and 2. Not to overwhelm them with an overload of information so they quit. It is a 2 pronged problem that is completely unsolvable.

[@Cogbyrn]

What a refreshing video. I honestly love that Pika seems to have no clue who these guys are because they truly don't deserve to be known.

[@IrOfLaTtHeMoOn]

I wish they had a chart for arena games played per month over the past decade. I suspect played games declined after the 9 week mark as everyone had beaten the game. They were starting to become fully geared, and started to lose incentive to play. As much as people disliked PvP progression (item upgrades) it incentivized players to participate in different PvP modes as well as battlegrounds. Catering to players with multiple alts, and players that only play 4 hours a week was a huge mistake imo.

[@panjack9849]

I think people need to remember that a huge part of the PvP community are people who do unrated modes. Random BG ques and epic BG ques are extremely fast and there is a lot of world PvP. BG blitz also has relatively fast ques.

[@BRADLIKESPVP]

I'm sorry, but the The biggest problem with Retail PvP is not that you can't play. It's that it's extremely daunting to get into for new & returning players with the immense amount of ability, talent and addon bloat that exists in modern WoW. When you watch gameplay of other games, you can immediately tell if it looks fun to play or not, but if you look at gameplay for WoW arena you don't even understand what you're looking at, which is by far the biggest turn off. WoW desperately needs some sort of hard reset.

[@takoVFX]

As someone who has played comp games all my life,CSGO, Fortnite, League of Legends, Overwatch and semi pro Valorant. I really dont get why ppl hate WoW, i dabbled in and out of WoW since Legion and been playing activly end of SL and i love the game, its all i play nowadays. The only thing id say i dont like abt the game is the Elitetism, other then that is probably the most fun i have had in gaming in a long time. And about the Skill factory in WoW, for me its way easier to be "good" at wow then to be "good" at Valorant" Playing Valorant at a high Level was probably the most toxic environment i was in, You wake up you scrim for hours against teams, you aimtrain, warmup, need to find a good mouse/keyboard that works for you, find a Sense and all of other factors. In WoW it feels way easier, ye maybe at times there is a lot going on, and you may need some addon for some mechanics. But id rather do that then what i had to do to stay "good" at Valorant. And from a Casual perspection, if you dont want to be a high level player in WoW, i dont see why it would be hard to have fun as a casual. I Feel like most players who say that WoW might be to hard, or is not Casual friendly, are people who just want to be the best at something but are to lazy to put in time, so they complay. And all of that im saying from someone who is working a full time job, so its not like i can play these games 24/7

[@imagrillsubtome7747]

im a pve player, 12 years in, i think wow pvp i was the most important aspect of vanilla, because players got gear to pvp back in the mmo old days, but yes after that pvp were losing space to pve because its easier to interact with people, more laidback, mechanics, fun... also mmos are losing space in general

[@jakeslick4320]

Making the game so every class doesn’t have 4 different interrupts is a good start to fixing it. Nothing more frustrating as a healer than walking into an arena and getting chain cc’d for 10 seconds while your teammate dies. I’ve been playing the game since 2006. I can only imagine how somebody that’s new to the game would feel.

[@Tiptoess]

The only issue with pvp is like you said the avaliableilty it'd impossible to log in and just play

[@VDViktor]

A youtuber whose whole life depends on the perceived success of wow pvp says “nah its all bs, wow pvp is great” ? Who wouldve thouht ! 😂 I also liked the take “wow pvp is the best thing on the planet, we just dont have anyone playing it and queues are dead”. Reminds me of those delusional restaurant owners from Ramsey’s show : “Whats the problem with your restaurant?” “Restaurant is amazing, we just dont have guests. Its their fault for not coming” 😂

[@gostreiver8036]

Having pika come behind these dudes that were recorded at one point in time. Being reacted to by asmon at another point in time. Pika is definitely living on the best timeline hahah

[@user-qp5ot2wm4u]

"yo change the URL parameters" "WHAT the HELL are you guys talking about?!" for w/e reason that shit had me rolling

[@carneios08]

I only like Bellular's lore content. You are 100% right about assessing this data. I'm so exhausted of the WoW Hate Train that seems to exist online, and it spreads to my friend group and guild.

[@GuyTakiSauce]

At the end of the day folks.... Do what makes you happy, and put your time and effort into what "you" enjoy and tickles your fancy ✌️

[@Graran]

I was playing with the ranking system on BG's and the BG's then were "hard" to queue because so many were playing... from TBC, I just lost track tbh ... Seeing Pikaboo + Vernuki video made me understand the frustration of the PvP community...now I need to find a way to create a 512-item level character to see what solo shuffle is.😅

[@oldrin1876]

I hate addons, I would def like no addons.

[@TRGoon]

I think the problem that bliz got with the leaver is that they can't figure out how to seperate leaver ( on purpose) and dc's ! If they can/ could simple set the ratin to 0 instant when its on.purpose!

[@MikBT]

They coul sort your spells by defensives, offensive and cc in your spell book. The could tag your talents in the same way. So people would understand faster what every ability is. 🤓

[@evertongomes4025]

Why don't the m+ go forward in pvp? It's simple, in pve you insistently play and get things, in pvp you play insistently and get nothing, due to pro players carrying all the time, to solve the pvp problem it's simple, just put the gladiator title to people who get 2 or 3 thousand votes above 1600 cr in x3, that would make people play more and there would be something at the end of the season. This would definitely increase gaming and make the community happy.

[@Nazero2012]

I'm so glad we have Pika to actually break down what they are supposed to be analyzing. The fact they are looking at ALL KEYSTONES RAN vs 3% of the PvP arena population

[@feelsgood4603]

They added to the confusion by leaving a graphic up when they were not talking about it. pretty unprepared and ignorant, but what do we expect from youtubers. Bellular is just a serious nerd and they love complaining and stroking their intellectual egos. Im sure they realize they have no passion for what theyre covering anymore and it shows.

[@andremtb480]

Set em straight! We just need shuffles to pop.

[@michaelb9683]

Agree that while balance helps, just not being able to play and leavers is just the worst aspect of it by far. Its also daunting for people to engage in a mode using 40 keybinds plus and focus macro etc. btw bellular and asmond are super casual. I used to play PVP more but mythic plus my friends are into more so I do that. We used to LOVE doing battlegrounds etc but arena never been a big thing for us. Agree on the addons too in pvp.

[@GladerDev]

Even if everyone in WoW played WoW arena it still would look unpopular compared to something like League of Legends. So it's abit unrealistic to compare it to LoL, even M+ would look dead compared to LoL. LoL allegedly has 130 million Monthly Active Users. WoW Arena barrier to entry is super high, the queue times are terrible, the average player or viewer cannot understand what is going on when they see it and unlike a lot of games it feels very unfun to lose. The addons are an issue for both PvE and PvP too.

[@silver2zilver]

14:00 it’s not toxic. Toxicity is NOT AN ARGUAMENT FOR ANYTHING. GTA is the most toxic lobbies and it’s very popular. Learn how to think

[@jakep2922]

lmao, this video was gold. "these guys are professional haters?"

[@Iautocorrect]

Pika bringing yp the top 5000 players all being above 2200 is so funny.

[@eupvpcontent733]

I can bet my life there non 1 real pvper watch beluar HAHAHAHAHHA only ppl that buy pets and colect them watch that diabolic

[@zerocharisma1845]

bro great vid! love your content! keep up the great work!

[@JimBobe]

Thank you!

[@baseboned]

The wow community would be so much better off without Asmon and Bellular. I wish them both all the success and happiness in the world... doing something else.

[@sweggieboi4928]

didn't expect people to be so against players that quit and their takes on why they quit. it's just people saying they don't play so their opinion doesn't matter when those are the opinions you should be looking at.

[@jblaze8713]

I used to be good at math, then I stopped looking at numbers.

[@13samfootball]

Yeah, so easily manipulated rofl

[@silver2zilver]

Toxic games are an escape from boring rule driven reality. Removing the ability to be toxic is ruining my ability to emerge myself with the thoughts that make me let loose from the rules.

[@Moonunitz]

In the great before times I did pve so I could pvp. In LK you wanted some leather pieces from ICC for Ret Pally pvp gear. I did world pvp stuff, the wintergrasp, that town in Nagrand, the flags in Hellfire. I stopped playing early Cata and only came back right before SL. The game was definitely 50% pvp for me, and the 50% pve was just so I could more easily get into pvp. Edit: Queuing for a single 2v2 or 3v3 match feels bad, especially if you are bad. You get banged out in the opener and then you're going back through a loading screen to ready up for your next queue, for the next minute wait, for the next loading screen, for the gates to open, to play again.

[@botsupport5089]

i am not sure how to solve this problem but i like pvp so much but i cant play whenever i want it feels bad