Dumbest Alien Invasions

An Alien Invasion of Earth is a terrifying scenario, yet science fiction rarely has good reason for those invasions. Today we'll discuss the worst reasons aliens invade in fiction and some plausible scenarios for why they might do it in fact.
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Credits:
Alien Civilizations: Dumbest Alien Invasions
Science & Futurism with Isaac Arthur
Episode 355a, August 14, 2022
Written, Produced & Narrated by Isaac Arthur
Editors:
David McFarlane
Konstantin Sokerin
Graphics:
Darth Biomech
Ken York
LegionTech Studios
Cover Art:
Jakub Grygier www.artstation...
Music by:
Martin Rezny, "Lifelight"
Denny Schneidemesser, "Bridge Ambience"
Stellardrone, "A Moment of Stillness", "Cosmic Sunrise", "Limbo", "Red Giant"
Aerium, "Fifth Star of Aldebaran"
Miguel Johnson, "Strange New World"

[@ShadowChozo]

Take a shot everytime Arthur says "That's the first rule of warfare". preferably non-alcoholic drinks.

[@lunaticbz3594]

Did the drinking game with Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters. Luckily had a backup copy of my brain.

[@gavinboyer4634]

*Mixes Pangalactig Gargle Blaster "No."

[@byaafacehead]

Take a drink or snack every time he brings out the first rule of warfare :D

[@antarfodoh]

Just be careful not to drink too much. That is, after all, the first rule of warfare.

[@denisl2760]

After all, do not get drunk before battle is the first rule of warfare.

[@Datan0de]

You really should sell a poster with "Isaac Arthur's Rules of Warfare", listing every rule of warfare you've mentioned over the years, handily listed in numeric order from 1 to 1.

[@preppen78]

Got to confuse those aliens listening in on our deepest secrets of warfare

[@bobinthewest8559]

I think he has already considered that, but then scrapped the idea... Turns out it won’t fit on just one poster 🤷‍♂️

[@teherysilvershield8009]

@@bobinthewest8559 is that rule #1 for making posters. It has to fit on one poster

[@MrJamesb192]

The first rule of warfare is that they are all first.

[@AnthonyGiallourakis]

Oh, you saw that too? I thought it was just my screen.

[@Immashift]

Sir, how many first rules of warfare do you want this episode? Isaac: Yes.

[@arendellecitizen208]

just 1 (one)

[@arcadiaberger9204]

I think this episode may have the best First Rule of Warfare yet: "Never hand someone a loaded gun unless you are sure of whom they're going to aim it at."

[@sponge1234ify]

That's the first rule of warfare; never tell your enemies how much resources and intel you actually have.

[@RogerWKnight]

Never pick a fight with someone bigger than you. Hitler and Tojo can confirm the wisdom of that rule of warfare.

[@darth_yoda]

Glad someone pointed out how many 1st rule of warfare there were.

[@wonderingmind28]

"Enslaving a smart, aggressive, predator that is known for being inventive, ruthless, and often inventively ruthless is not a good idea." I laughed at this for at least 5 mins. Might be one of his best lines.

[@guaposneeze]

It is a good line. I just think the logic is flawed. If a species likes enslaving other species, enslaving just such a species may be considered a prestigious accomplishment. If your hobby is rock climbing, you don't seek out the shortest mountains.

[@therealdarklizzy]

Psycho teens torture cats, so I can imagine some psycho alien teenagers torturing all humans for 5,000 years before roasting the entire planet with the heat of a thousand suns.

[@aaronmathews9506]

Kind of sounds like that is what man did to wolf

[@Jagernaughty]

Or ruthlessly inventive

[@MrJdsenior]

I thought the one about the aliens being equivalently water soluble to the Wicked witch of the West was the best of this episode.

[@danielsmith336]

The formics in Enders Game had their reasoning expanded in the prequels. In the first invasion they assumed earth had unimportant/unintelligent life forms, like the previous 100 worlds that they had discovered and colonized, until we fought back. It probably would have been a good idea to spy on the planet before trying to take it over just to be sure, but with such a long history of not finding other intelligent life, they assumed that they were the only intelligent life. When they invaded the second time they were looking for the intelligent caste of humans by yelling "take me to your leader" in their telepathic language to every human that they encountered. They also randomly dissected human bodies, looking for evidence of the ability to communicate. None of the humans replied and none of the humans cut open had the correct telepathic organs, so they continued their search. They expected to find a leader that they could communicate with to force earth to surrender, but only found what they considered to be the mute, robotic, expendable drone humans fighting to the last to keep the formics from capturing the human equivalent of a queen. When they realized that every single human actually was the equivalent of a formic queen, they stopped and spent their time trying to find a way to communicate with Ender as he unknowingly xenocided them.

[@aaronhelmsman]

Yeah it's an interesting one. No telepathy to them meant no intelligence

[@ericreid8111]

It's still stupid. Like are we ignoring humans have built, have engineered? We have things in space! What unintelligent animal can do that?

[@aaronhelmsman]

@@ericreid8111 Have you looked at a bee hive before? They can be extremely complex. They also thought that there might be a queen somewhere doing the designing we were seeing

[@macdeus2601]

@@ericreid8111 That's a matter of scale and perspective. Lots of other animals build things. We just don't consider those things impressive enough to be worthy of comparison to what we build. I don't find it hard to imagine a civilization more advanced than us looking at the Hoover Dam or whatever, and feeling the same way about it that a human feels about a beaver dam.

[@ericreid8111]

@@macdeus2601 ok sure. But do other animals have space craft? Do other animals invent machines that can fly? Even if they fly through inefficient methods? Nuclear reactors? Even if it is fission, perhaps radiation isn't as dangerous to 1 specie's cells, as another. There are just too many things to prove humans are intelligent

[@thestabbybrit4798]

Another possible reason to invade Earth: to stop humanity's unending redefinition of the first rule of warfare.

[@UNSCPILOT]

Ironically that would probably end with them violating the first rule of warfare and loosing in embarrassing fashion

[@BrassSpyglass]

First rule of warfare: Confuse your enemy wherever possible.

[@kevmasengale6903]

Constantly changing definition is the first rule of war....

[@rommdan2716]

The most realistic alien invasion I can't think off is a group of a few billion alien teenagers who think invading and opressing a less advanced civilization would be funny. Teenagers being jerks is an universal constant.

[@jimmiedmc1]

I always believed that any and all UFO sighting over military bases may be the teenager equivilant of an alien species I can't fathom why even though we're less advanced why someone would play chicken with military bases... Other than stupid teenagers doing stupid things with daddy's car

[@rommdan2716]

@@jimmiedmc1 Yes, somehow that would be more scary than a imperialistic alien army.

[@rommdan2716]

@_____ Yes, in a post scarcity civilization a single guy could affort an invading drone army

[@bobinthewest8559]

@@jimmiedmc1 ... Allegedly, there have been cases of UFOs hovering over (or near) missile silos, and remotely shutting down the missile systems... I would imagine that anyone with such capabilities, can pretty confidently “play chicken with our military bases” . Just saying

[@dylanpickle7292]

Sounds like hitchhikers guide to the galaxy

[@Wertsir]

In regards to Water in dune: 1) They do have water efficient greenhouses, the Atreides build one to house their garden when they first move to Arrakis. It’s just insanely expensive, so only the nobility can afford it and not the lower classes. It is seen as a sign of their immense wealth and power. 2) Space travel is not cheap, it is insanely expensive. This is because the spacing guild maintains a monopoly over space travel allowing them to charge whatever they wish for its use, and because guild navigators need to be fed a constant stream of spice, the most expensive thing in the dune universe, to maintain their precognition. 3) The Spacing Guild intentionally undermines the power of other factions in the dune universe in order to keep them dependent on the guild, as this maintains their own political power. Arrakis is of particular interest to them as it is the source of their power, and the home of their most important strategic resource. By limiting the amount of water they ship there, they keep Arrakis dependent on them providing constant shipments of it, and are thereby able to exchange the cheap commodity of water for the expensive commodity spice. Water is not rare by nature, but by artificial scarcity and monopolistic practices. 4) The sand worms that live on dune consume water in massive quantities. Indeed they are the ones responsible for making Arrakis a desert planet in the first place. So simply shipping more water in would not, in and of itself, solve the problem. It’d just end up creating more worms. 5) Leto does eventually terraform Arrakis and bring more water to the desert planet, as he and his father promised to. Eventually leaving only a small patch of desert on the entire planet, a reserve set aside for Leto himself, who has at this point metamorphosed fully into a sand worm. Overall the world we are presented in dune is not one where water is actually rare. We are repeatedly described how common it is on other worlds. Instead it’s rarity on Arrakis is artificially enforced as a part of the political power struggle that makes up the primary narrative of the series.

[@ta4ai]

I thought the sand worms were killed by water?

[@byaafacehead]

Damn, nice point. I really should re-read it

[@Ailar2209]

Regarding your 4th point: open water in any significant quantity is also poisonous to the sand worms. In the books, the Fremen are actually keeping single worms imprisoned by surrounding them with a water reservoir, thereby stunting their growth. That is another important reason why Arrakis is a desert world at the beginning of the story: it could easily be turned into a green utopia with the technology available (as you point out, Leto II does exactly that in the later books), but that would mean losing the sand worm, which would mean losing Spice, and there goes your ability for interstellar travel. And as Arrakis is the only known producer of Spice, it is in everyones (apart from the Fremen, of course) best interest to keep the deserts as they are

[@Wertsir]

@@ta4ai The Adult Sandworms are, but their Larval Form, the Sandtrout, is not. And they effectively act as water leeches, draining underwater reservoirs and causing steady desertification of whichever planet they are on, thereby creating the very environment that the adult sand worms need to survive. Since the Sandtrout and Sandworm are two stages in the lifecycle of the same species, like frogs and tadpoles, it is still generally true that sandworms are responsible for consuming the water, though I could have phrased it better in the initial post. The sandworms are not native to Arrakis, Leto’s ancestral memories reveal that they were brought there from elsewhere, and that before they were Arrakis had been a wet planet with a thriving ecosystem that the Trout and Worms destroyed, leading the planet to its current state. They’re basically an invasive species that causes ecological collapse and desertification on a planetary scale.

[@ta4ai]

@@Wertsir Ah yes. This one is strong in the weirding way.

[@approximateCognition]

About the Dune "issue", there's actually a threefold explanation for this in-universe: 1) Long-term Harkonnen occupation purposely keeping the population technologically primitive and poor. 2) Massive Fremen Spice-bribes to the Guild to keep satellites out of orbit (combined with the fact that Dune-verse satellites are usually limited by being *man-operated* due to a widespread religious-cultural taboo against anything resembling AI) 3) The local (and highly implied to be descendant of artificial organisms) ecosystem is *very* effective at sequestering water into underground dispersed pockets, functionally removing it from circulation.

[@johanngreffrath2357]

Agree that the Dune criticism isn't quite valid. First of all the planet's arid climate is essential to the creation of spice (no spoilers). Secondly, the larger inhabited areas (eg. Arrakeen) are not water starved (remember the date palms). Third, the only people that need to struggle for water are the Fremen: the unfortunate and disenfranchised natives who nobody cares about. In fact the waterless climate of the planet probably isn't even necessary for the plot, just that the planet has an extreme environment. Might as well have been a cold ice planet with ice worms where the idea of resource scarcity doesn't even matter.

[@haldreamt]

I’m glad someone pointed this out - Arrakis was kept a desert on purpose as it’s the only way to keep the planet producing Spice.

[@approximateCognition]

@@johanngreffrath2357 I purposely decided not to mention the climate-spice production link, because for the first 3 books, this isn't really widely known. (And, spoiler: In book 4, Arrakis actually did get properly terraformed, only for it to be undone again in the period between book 4 and 5, but at that point, the whole Spice-situation got even more convoluted)

[@Fridaey13txhOktober]

In Dune was anything like Earth in terms of quantities of water, then they should have an ocean's worth of worms/trouts under the sand and feeding on the inner planetary heat. Sand which is produced by these worms consuming a sizable part of the crust as well. 😄

[@approximateCognition]

@@Fridaey13txhOktober Which is basically confirmed in book 4.

[@andrewcleary9952]

Two minor points: In Dune, Arrakis' lack of terraforming was 100% eco-political. Nobody really wanted to mess up the planet's natual cycles because nobody understood how Spice was made. Later, it's understood that it's a byproduct of the Sandworm life cycle, so if you terraform the planet you kill all the sandworms and you lose all the Spice. As of the start of Book 1 the Fremen are already starting work on terraforming Dune in a guerilla low-budget manner, and they have their own hidden ecology labs. The consequences of a possible terraforming of Dune become a MASSIVE plot point later in the series, as thousands of years pass between some of the books. And in Ender's Game, it's not so much that the Bugs didn't think the Humans would care at ALL about losing some settlements, or that they didn't recognise Humanity as a species to be sentient, just that they didn't think humans would give THAT much care to losing a few planets. In Bug culture queens would just be like, constantly wiping out each other's settlements, but it wasn't seen as anything other than a neighbourly spat. So them exterminating the humans on those planets just wasn't a particularly evil thing to do in their moral view, and they were just expecting the humans to come back and grab a few of their planets in return, a minor border dispute, instead of a full scale galactic war erupting. Bugs were basically just playing civ, then wondering why the humans were getting so tilted over it.

[@lorez201]

Re: Dune, besides the diegetic explanation regarding the sandworms and melange, the decision to not terraform Arrakis can also be read as an analogy for how real-world empires deliberately under-develop regions on the imperial periphery to make the resources and people in those regions easier to exploit.

[@trucid2]

While ants and bees may look like distinct lifeforms, due to how reproduction happens it is the hive as a whole that forms a single evolutionary unit, a single oeganism. The drones are merely extensions of the hive, machines that specialize in certain tasks the same way we have planes and cars. The queen had a bug-centric view of humans as drones and therefore has no compuction about killing them as long as she wasn't killing the (nonexistent) human queen.

[@blumoogle2901]

I believe in Enders Game, there is a specific few sentences which state that the Queens only consider Queens to be people, and wiping out the workers (drones) was essentially the equivalent of cutting off the hair or nails of your enemy, and that they initially thought of human individuals as equavilent to their drones. When they realised that every human was a person, they were horrified, but it was too late.

[@lukemills237]

A sensible reason to actually *invade* earth instead of just sterilizing the planet: you want to eliminate a possible competitor while preserving the local biosphere for later exploitation.

[@isaacarthurSFIA]

I think we have that one in here today :)

[@mifiwi3438]

This. Though causing an artificial pandemic would probably be a good first strike before launching anything else towards Earth.

[@jeffhoward162]

There's not really anything about our biosphere that would make that worth it, tho, really. A civilization with the ability to do that would almost certainly be able to make any product of our biosphere using the incredibly abundant resources not being utilized by another sentient species.

[@SSB_Its_Me_SB]

@@isaacarthurSFIA I worked at NBC for over a decade, literally so a famous people every single day. Nobody ever really impressed me enough to approach them and ask for an autograph or anything like that… But Isaac if I saw you? I would definitely want to have a conversation with you! Your content is awesome!

[@rommdan2716]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Do you really think we could become a competitor for an advance alien civilization?!! HAHAHHAHAHA HAHAHHAA OH BOY!! I really needed to laugh today.

[@justinlacek1481]

One thing I like about Halo is that it's brutally realistic in the sense that the Covenant, by and large, just orbitally bombarded most human worlds without invading. Most 'battles' during the human covenant war were over once the Covenant gained control of the local space, because then they'd just proceed to glass the planets.

[@TheSquareheadgamer]

I actually don't think the "Eating Human" is necessarily as dumb as you make out. It could be the equivalence of the Japanese eating whales. Which aren't economical to farm and is considered distasteful by many other humans, just not something considered so repugnant as to escalate to war. I don't see why a vast alien empire couldn't have a sect that eat other intelligent races as delicacy which while considered distasteful by the majority of that empire do not view "saving humans" as something worth military response.

[@hoominbeeing]

Especially if you consider that "uneconomical" is a matter of scale. Eating plants is far more economical and healthy than animal flesh, yet we still do the latter because of flesh industry propaganda and "muh taste pleasure".

[@nickolasbrown3342]

synthesizing meat is cheaper

[@TheSquareheadgamer]

@@nickolasbrown3342 thats not really a counter at all. Many traditions aren't economical and yet we still do them.

[@pougetguillaume4632]

@@hoominbeeing yay of course you don't need animal protein or certain vitamin to live. Clearly meat is useless to societies who couldn't afford to engineer specialised drugs packed full of the stuff we need to survive. Clearly people who are allergic to some types of vegetables don't need at all to concern themselves with meat even though they are unable to consume some plants necessary to a vegan regimen. It's also not true that you can overdose on drugs that compliment your regimen like vitamin D, a small drug with 0 calories (therefore your body can't warn you that you've "ate" too much) packed full of vitamin D can't possibly be dangerous when not monitored responsibly. Meat is so unnecessary that every medical authorities heavily recommends to get medical survey whenever you are attempting a vegan regiment. Plants are so economical that several human societies like the mongols relied essentially on their animals to produce their food and their way of life. Almost as if animal life was more than just numbers and statistics with reciprocity involved like ants with their aphids. God i hate vegan propaganda, if you want to go vegan there are real risk involved. Turns out meat is kind of part of our diet since we were apes.

[@sienielain9222]

Uncompatible biochemistry?

[@LucasDimoveo]

I'm surprised no one wrote a story where aliens take over Sol while ignoring Earth entirely

[@lunaticbz3594]

That be a very interesting and cool setting for a story, but it be problematic for the central conflict, and resolution. As the aliens would just end up being a background issue in the story.

[@thorin1045]

a short story maybe, but for a longer one, you would need a conflict, this has very little, we see them, but cannot do anything, probably they ignore us, who cares for the ants.

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

@@lunaticbz3594 I could still see it working. If they didn't send us any messages you'd have to suspend disbelief on why they didn't so much as say "hey we're taking the metals, volatiles, and fissionables in your asteroid belt, but we have no interest in your planet." if they DID send us that message, I could see it causing massive unrest on earth as not everyone is going to be content with taking the alien invaders at their word, or the translation could be wrong, or screw them that's OUR asteroid belt dammit! and it provokes a response from our militaries.

[@lunaticbz3594]

@@xXx_Regulus_xXx If we're going for realism though the military response would be nil, if its in Earth's current time. Yeah we could throw some nukes at them, but that's a bad idea as who knows what they'd throw back at us. I liked the other commenters suggestion of a short story, then their isn't a need to resolve the alien issue. I could not just see that working, but if I could write would be stealing those ideas right now.

[@Fridaey13txhOktober]

​@@lunaticbz3594 And what happens when the Sun came crashing into Earth..? but wait! There's more! Planet-sized Mexican tomatoes are coming! And vampire cat ghost monsters! And sociopathic teddy bears! And whole lot other crazy things the movie!

[@bilskirnir_]

It has already been demonstrated that murder bots don't work as proved in the documentary series Futurama. As demonstrated by war hero, Zapp Brannigan, you just have to send waves of infantry until their murder or kill counter is reached and they shutdown.

[@boobah5643]

Is this like mad scientists and self-destruct buttons?

[@thehermitman822]

"FOR SCIENCE"

[@oonmm]

Just wait for a buffer overflow of the kill counter? That's pretty funny.

[@isuckatusernames4297]

what if the kill bots don't have a kill counter tho ?

[@corsayr9629]

26:40 I would call the predator series an example of this. They aren't necessarily eating souls but they are looking to fight warriors, and do seem to follow an honor system of some sort. and are interested in something intangible.

[@shcdemolisher]

Yeah! Plus given our history and culture that is filled with wars and warriors of legend, it makes sense to look for a proper good fight.

[@JoeCensored]

Yeah I never take the alien invasion over lack of human morals to be realistic. When we look at ants we would never involve ourselves in an ant colony for the purpose of correcting their morals, or chastise them for waring with neighboring colonies. In fact we sometimes monitor ant colony vs colony warfare with scientific curiosity. Aliens likely would monitor human warfare with similar curiosity.

[@therealdarklizzy]

It makes me wonder if aliens would want to see humans saved from extinction in the same way we want to see an exotic bird species saved from extinction.

[@MrJdsenior]

Yeah, and pour boiling water down their holes when they are fire ants, so there's that, too.

[@luciferangelica4827]

@@therealdarklizzy or maybe the ones that eat us conserve us, but their conquerors kill us all to starve them out

[@simonpetrikov3992]

@@MrJdsenior because they’re invasive species that cause major damage to the environment but unable to purge them completely

[@saucevc8353]

That's only if aliens are significantly more intelligent than us rather than same intelligence but more technologically advanced. Compare your example to how colonialists viewed "inferior races": They certainly felt the need to violently interfere with their cultures and shame them for perceived moral degeneracy.

[@DrewLSsix]

The Minbari issue is one that's faced when talking real world alien motivations. Defenders will say they were simply fundamentally different from humans and the mistake was understandable, but the narrative itself says the Minbari live in a galaxy teaming with other aliens that all have a wide variety of relative norms. They absolutely would have encountered other species that would have taken open gun ports and crippling scans as hostile. If they have spent the last 3000 years responding to those aliens the same way they responded to humans they were likely a greater destructive force than both the Shadow wars that bracket the franchise. And that still ignores the fact that none of the other races explicitly said "don't fire on the Minbari, they have weird customs that include pointing guns at you in peace and if you shoot them they will eradicate your species the way they have done a couple hundred others so far"

[@localhearthian2387]

Once again good communication fails to save the day

[@12pentaborane]

In one of the first movies I believe Londo does warn a general and consultant whe they ask if the Centauri had contact with the Minbari

[@juliahenriques210]

@@12pentaborane Yep. Londo does warn them that the Minbari are better left alone.

[@OllamhDrab]

As part of my general preference to not assume galactic incompetence, I sometimes consider that it wasn't just any Minbari ship, but the one with the Grey Council aboard, who might be the most hidebound and detached of any of em, at least at that time, whereas maybe another ship would have more of a pragmatist in command.

[@MrJdsenior]

Minbari suck.

[@joelkreissman6342]

How about a technologically regressed generation ship that doesn’t know how to build new habitats but still has a giant stockpile of nukes to threaten a primitive planet with? And is inexplicably compatible with Earth’s ecosystem.

[@EliasMheart]

Hey, it sounds interesting, but I don't think that I understand the idea correctly. Because the Generation Ship would have to have habitats, I think... And if the technology is on the ship, then they can probably figure it out during the long, long voyage, right? As mentioned today: if you have examples all around you, it is a lot easier to learn new (or forgotten) technology. Unless you meant something like "the civilization became feral again"... but then they wouldn't be using nukes... Not sure if I understand what you mean^^

[@paramutt5507]

@@EliasMheart I'd go with them being around our tech level but enough to flee their home for some reason on a generation ship. Then going through "dark ages" stunting their progress.

[@LOL-zu1zr]

@@paramutt5507 dark ages isn’t as severe as some people proclaim it to be. Metallurgy for example, was more advanced in former territories of the western Roman Empire. The tech that regressed are ones that require a lot of money and manpower to keep using. Like construction, no one is building aqueducts for cities with way smaller populations and that is why it’s lost. Whereas any Smith can forge metal tools and weapons and just keep doing these on a smaller scale.

[@joelkreissman6342]

@@EliasMheart I live in a house, doesn't mean I know how to build one.

[@wires-sl7gs]

@@joelkreissman6342 Yes, but this is a civilization, which would not share the same excuse

[@vomeronasal]

Mars Attacks- the most realistic alien invasion film of all time.

[@section8usmc53]

Ack!

[@Trivial_Whim]

Well, we do have elevated levels of phosphorus. Before the technology to extract nitrogen from the air was developed, countries would routinely go to war for any rock in the ocean covered in enough bird crap because they needed the nitrogen to expand farming efforts. I think you said yourself that phosphorus was rare and needed for ATP, so…

[@FlintIronstag23]

One franchise that checked a lot of the boxes for dumbest alien invasion were the "V" television shows in 1983-84. The Visitors came all the way from Sirius in 50 giant motherships to steal the Earth's water, to harvest most of the human race as food, and convert a small number of humans to use as slaves and soldiers. I admit I did enjoy watching it as a kid though.

[@MrJdsenior]

Yeah, if accuracy is a requirement for your movie entertainment you are basically screwed. But "Kessel run in 12 parsecs" sorts of lines somehow just make my hair hurt.

[@TheJarric]

try signs aliens

[@adamperdue3178]

As for the 'capping out' of technology, I would think it's entirely plausible that an alien species may desire to interact with another similarly intelligent species (I.E. us) in order to possibly get a different perspective on things. It's possible an alien species may know all the underlying physics behind everything, but never thought to implement an idea such as crop rotation, as the concept never occurred to them. If you're a vast alien empire, you may want to go around to visit as many other different intelligent species as you can manage in order to maximize the amount of different perspectives that you can obtain. In doing so, you also want to maintain a military presence near each species to A) Prevent them from rebelling (as you lose access to them) and B) Prevent other empires from accessing them (As they could benefit from their perspective similarly to how you have, giving them a leg-up against you). An obvious way to do this is to 'invade' in one way or another. Not the only way, certainly, but in many respects it's probably the most feasible option.

[@alexv3357]

To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before, all to stimulate competition and innovation in a stagnating domestic economy

[@SirTorcharite]

Would that make the reports of alien sightings the equivalents of a reported poacher at a galactic game resrve? They're just sneaking in, bagging what they're prepared for, and getting tf out.

[@TheJarric]

@@SirTorcharite that actually occored in anime rpg

[@maltheopia]

That's a sensible motive, the problem with doing that with active invasion is that you've now created a species that opposes you and will be reluctant to share its insights. Also, if the civilization is pacifist or non-expansionist, you are contaminating their perspective by invading them. Furthermore, a society will retool itself to either pleasing its overlords or fighting back, not a good environment for scientific or artistic development. And if you invade too early, you'll permanently contaminate their perspective with yours. A planet who just mastered bronzeworking never discovers crop rotation after your invasion, because you didn't discover it and they're following your leads and cues. If you're looking for different perspectives, the best way would just be to encourage their development from the shadows (doing things like shooting down asteroids and assassinating inventors of suicide-pact technologies) and when they contact you, tell them what you learned from them, the nature of your assistance, and to encourage them to go down their own path. Invasion would be counterproductive.

[@annalorree]

I was so hoping that Battle Los Angeles would get an honourable mention in the section for water resource extraction. It has, in my opinion, THE BEST early invasion scene of any movie out there.

[@crappycomputer77t1]

That was a fun movie to watch.

[@trevorhunt9547]

That movie was great anywhere they weren't trying to explain the aliens or their motivations.

[@seantrevathan3041]

Just rewatched it. You also get the vibe that the invaders(Sharks) are basically poorly trained and equipped conscripts. If you want a great alien invasion novel, read Footfall by Larry Niven.

[@algorithmgeneratedanimegir1286]

I'm still waiting for the promised "Sexy Alien" video.

[@rommdan2716]

Plot twist: All the aliens are sexy

[@20ZZ20]

Looking forward to that alussy

[@vipondiu]

I'm up for some more "first rules of warfare"!

[@jevinrobertson]

So many 1st rules

[@MrJdsenior]

First is a relative term...oh wait. I'm sure you've heard someone say "there are many firsts". Never mind, you are correct.

[@jevinrobertson]

It's a joke surely you've heard of one?

[@Reddotzebra]

"War is an argument determining not whom is right, but whom is left."

[@alderwolf7687]

A fun SiFi story based upon this would be one where the people of Earth suddenly discover a huge alien ship orbiting Jupiter sending smaller ships to explore all around the Sol System. The people of Earth frantically attempt to communicate but all attempts are ignored. Before long the aliens leave the Sol system and its flustered humans behind.

[@therealdarklizzy]

I had an idea long ago about aliens that just wipe out any intelligent life because they are afraid of it. Some astronomers discover multiple missiles traveling at a large fraction of the speed of light, but they can't do anything to stop it. The world's elites try to escape to underground shelters or escape to space, and all chaos ensues. In the end, the protagonist escapes to space on a small ship that can only support a small amount of people, and they watch the planet get turned into a molten lake of lava, totally uninhabitable to life, and now they are forced to drift through the depths of space for eternity.

[@shcdemolisher]

I REMEMBER THAT!!!

[@genkibob]

That's not unlike the plot to Rama.

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

Another idea might be a first contact story involving a consortium of aliens coming to Earth to negotiate in good faith. Meanwhile we mess it up at every turn as nations and corporations all scramble to grab as big a slice of the pie they're offering as they can, eventually leading to the aliens to just give up in frustration and leave. And then we all start blaming each other for the fiasco! 😆

[@harbl99]

_Signs_ has probably the ultimate 'too stupid to count their toes, let alone achieve space flight' aliens: "Water adversely affects us. Let us raid a planet 70% covered in liquid water where it falls from the skies." (yep, 14 minutes in)

[@rommdan2716]

I think they were actual demons and the water was blessed by a priest

[@maiqtheliar789]

Invade a planet covered with the stuff naked with no hazmat suit. Would be like if humans found a planet covered with sulfuric acid and decided to invade it naked. With all the water vapor in Earth's atmosphere their lungs should have melted just breathing. Let alone if a human gets injured and bleeds on them. Basically humans are like xenomorphs from Aliens to these aliens. Everything from our sweat to our blood to our urine is basically like sulfuric acid to them. I heard that originally the aliens were supposed to be demons instead of aliens but for some reason it was changed. Not sure if that makes it any better or worse though.

[@stanleystriker7065]

@@rommdan2716 Nah. The water was just the little girl constantly leaving her mostly untouched glasses of tapwater lying around everywhere. (My nephew does that...drinks a couple gulps of water and leaves them everywhere...)

[@paulsmart4672]

Naked. Lets invade the planet that is mostly covered in acid where acid randomly falls from the sky and acid just sometimes materializes on exposed objects at night... while naked.

[@Cau_No]

Everything you state here about the aliens shown on screen is valid. They are even depicted as not intelligent enough to start such a thing. But the conclusion should be that there is another actor not seen that is responsible for the events. Not that it is a stupid invasion. We don't even know if it should be called an invasion, we just assume this because in every movie we've seen that was the reason for aliens attacking …

[@johngavin3180]

In my opinion the "Burning of Kharak" scene in the Homeworld video game where the Tydan empire destroys the orbital platforms and then using a weapon that burns the planets atmosphere is a good way to destroy a planet, granted this was all because the people of Kharak just reached space flight.

[@Deridus]

Salvage corvettes: "Hostile frigates? Oh, free real estate, you mean."

[@TS-jm7jm]

kharak**; fren, its kharak, also taaidan** lastly, the reason kharak was glassed, was because the kuushan redeveloped hyperspace technology, not because they achieved spaceflight, thereby violating the treaty enforced upon them when they were banished from hiigara in the first place after having their previous interstellar ftl empire crushed by a coalition led by the bentusi.

[@johngavin3180]

@@TS-jm7jm my mistake it's been a while since I played homeworld.

[@TS-jm7jm]

@@johngavin3180 it's been awhile for me aswell, but that was my first and for a good while, only 3d rts game, and i thoroughly enjoyed reading the lore that came with it

[@Deridus]

@@TS-jm7jm thank you for that. I was going to mention it, but I didn't feel like getting it out of the specifics. As it stands... I think I'm going to go replay home world for the 18th time.

[@dipian]

Would be hilarious if an alien spying on us started communication because Isaac Arthur missed one detail on why somebody wanted to invade. Like the people who quoted a clasified tank manual in World of Tanks.

[@MrJdsenior]

No, it would be a movie.

[@birdy_coolbeans]

trouble is, leaders don't always need a good reason to set off an invasion. hubris is a hell of a drug

[@Reddotzebra]

As I recall the Wraith were more like the Metroids in that they drain some kind of unknown biological essence from the cells of their prey, however in both cases we also find out that they can return said essence, and in the case of the Wraith essentially de-age and heal people, which makes no sense at all. Galactus has much broader powers since he seemingly has the ability to consume all forms of energy (like when he drains all energy from Ultron with a mere glance), but for some reason only gains actual nourishment from the energy of living worlds, this is probably tied to what the Celestials need to nurture their eggs.

[@DeadlyDan]

It is implied it is 'life force' as the victims of the Wraith age as they are being drained. Until they die of old age.

[@MrJdsenior]

Dark Crystal

[@arcadiaberger9204]

I think this episode may have the best First Rule of Warfare yet: "Never hand someone a loaded gun unless you are sure of whom they're going to aim it at."

[@TheSolidSnakeOil]

Dumb alien invaders immediately makes me think of Battlefield Earth. That is the dumbest movie with the dumbest aliens. And of course, it gets bought up in the video.

[@toddmaples3152]

The movie was bad, loved the book though, if you read it I recommend giving it a go.

[@creepyunicornwithlazers3594]

I remember watching that years ago. I wish I could un-see it and recover the braincells that decided enough is enough and jumped ship.

[@Reddotzebra]

Any civilization that had already mastered interstellar flight and would find humans tasty would either do much better with becoming pig farmers, as they are supposedly the next best thing, or they would only require a few handfuls of skin flakes to be able to clone all the human meat their stomachs could ever hold. That's a good point.

[@kevinyaucheekin1319]

Maybe they like free range.

[@ganjiblobflankis6581]

I don't think it would be justification for invasion, but a good reason for secret alien tourism to Earth would be to witness total solar eclipses. It must be a pretty rare natural phenomenon.

[@christophergiblin3376]

But aliens could just move their spacecraft into an appropriate orbit and experience eclipses whenever they wanted, with any planetary body they liked.

[@MrJdsenior]

Not really. It isn't something that is static here. It is only that way right now. Way back the moon was MUCH larger than the Sun to an Earthbound observer, and eventually there will be no moon orbiting Earth at all, IIRC. Tides were likely of the 1000' variety, and land tides were probably much higher than ocean tides are now. We live such a short time that we think of things as static that very much aren't. Also, in the far future, the Sun will get VERY large on the horizon, perhaps the entire visible sky, actually, and if you think the Earth is warming now ...

[@shcdemolisher]

Ehhhh, no. That can happen on ANY world in any other star system! No real use for a tourism place for it.

[@MrJdsenior]

@@shcdemolisher No, it can't. not remotely. There are several factors that have to come together to have total solar eclipses that do what ours does, orbital inclination (likely), angular apparent size almost exactly the same from the planet (MUCH less likely). As an example, I don't think there are any other planet/moon systems in our solar system that meet that apparent size requirement. Lunar eclipses, sure, in fact on Jupiter they happen every day for every moon, I would fully expect. Probably the other gas giants, too, and maybe others.

[@shcdemolisher]

@@MrJdsenior Well I was referring to other solar systems, not the other planets in ours.

[@jimgallagher8029]

Was glad Isaac mentioned ‘Signs’. I consider that the most incompetent alien invasion since ‘Plan 9 from Outer Space’.

[@patroclusilliad233]

I think one of the most interesting reasons I've seen for aliens to invade was in Shin Ultraman. To be as spoiler light as possible: it is discovered that mankind has a certain synchronicity with a plot relevant technology that makes them perfect candidates for being turned into powerful living weapons if exploited, ergo whoever can gain control over mankind would have access to a stockpile of weapons that could upset the intergalactic political landscape. Like really, only once this discovery is made, all sorts of aliens who previously did not care, suddenly take interest in humanity.

[@Gaia_Gaistar]

Human centric stuff like that always gets me hype.

[@LOL-zu1zr]

Makes no sense Even if that is true just get clones

[@Gaia_Gaistar]

@@LOL-zu1zr The Indominable Human spirit vs the cosmos is one of my favorite tropes.

[@LOL-zu1zr]

@@Gaia_Gaistar yeah but human spirit counts for nothing when a random rock can erase its existence.

[@Gaia_Gaistar]

@@LOL-zu1zr My preferred type of fiction usually has humanity overcoming impossible odds. Check out GaoGaiGar if you're ever in the mood.

[@springbloom5940]

You could also be a few dozen generations into your new colony, when the xenophobic owner's 5000 year patrol swings by and finds squatters.

[@maltheopia]

In Final Fantasy IV, a higher tech species fleeing the destruction of their home planet headed for the Blue Planet but found it inhabited by primitive lifeforms. They debated whether establishing contact or just going into hibernation so that the inhabitants could technologically catch up with them, and decided on the latter. However, one of their number, Zemus, was a powerful psychic who disagreed and said they should just take the planet. They forced him to hibernate with them, though his will was so strong that he was able to stay conscious and wield a fraction of his powers across planets. Zemus ended up psychically controlling/corrupting the planet's lifeforms to disguise his alien invasion as a routine world conquering. IOW, invasion in FF4 was basically a temper-tantrum from an immature alien who wanted to go all Stellaris.

[@seantrevathan3041]

One of the more realistic alien invasion scenarios I've seen was in Footfall, where the aliens mostly just take up orbit and hit everything of importance from there. Has a good psychological explanation, as well. Great read.

[@TheJarric]

colony series is good too

[@davidmurphy563]

I remember a book that had a race that went on a galactic conquest because it decided the other species were dirty and disgusting. So they cleansed themselves of bacteria and washed away the filth as they saw it. Was a great premise but I forget the name of the book/ author. I haven't watched an Authur video in years, used to watch them all the time. Quite enjoyed it.

[@boobah5643]

Well, there's the central plot of _LIfe, the Universe and Everything._ But that was more 'destroy the universe' than 'cleanse.'

[@jeffreysoreff9588]

The "butterflies in jackboots" of Vernor Vinge's "A Fire Upon the Deep" sounds right - they regarded other species (including humans) as vermin.

[@arendellecitizen208]

Sounds like Daleks. Fan fact: Daleks hatred for different species was artificially engineered as a strategy for survival, because their creator - Davros believed that peaceful cohabitation of two sentient species is impossible. It's actually a really interesting story.

[@martinsriber7760]

1) In Dune they have greenhouses and they can supply planet with water. They even terraform it to be more hospitable. 2) Triffids aren't sapient and it isn't sure whether they are alien.

[@Novaius]

If I remember my Dune-isms, they were set on making Arrakis Earth-like, but decided not to so they could keep harvesting Spice. They didn't wanna give up the Golden Goose.

[@JamesTyrrellOnline]

In the book I think it seems like Triffids are more likely to be alien I seem to remember. But yeah, they just floated down as spores, it wasn't a planned attack.

[@tzaphkielconficturus7136]

I'm not sure if the imperium knew it at the begining of the story, but too much water will kill the sandworms, won't it?

[@dndsl3436]

If I remember from the Book, the Triffids were implied to be some genetic experiment from the Soviet Union. They had already been cultivated widely around the world by the start of the novel. The meteor shower that rendered everyone blind was speculated to be some cold war weapons test/accidental firing.

[@ancapftw9113]

In a TTRPG i'm running, an alien Duke found Earth on the edge of their empire and decided to invade, because an inhabitable planet, sold peicemeal to lesser nobles, was worth about a quintillion dollars. So he sent a quadrillion dollar fleet here to conquor us. He had to subjugate the locals to prevent them from hurting his clients. And, of course, since they are already subjugated, you might as well use them as a cheap, nonvoluntary labor force to get the valuable minerals out of this system. Humans just didnt take kindly to being "subjugated", and kept fighting until the Duke decided it wasnt worth the extra value of readily available slaves and subjects, and carpet bombed every city, then mopped up any survivors with his remaining troops. Feel free to point out problems with that, but at least it's better than V saying "we need food and water", and forgetting all of the mining they could do and the fact that humans would gladly raise animals for them in exchange for money and fancy devices.

[@herbertcrawford9634]

Which TTRPG?

[@ancapftw9113]

@@herbertcrawford9634 running it in M&m

[@btrando1]

I feel like it's safer and cheaper for the Duke to use their own scanning equipment and have drones mine it out.

[@ancapftw9113]

@@btrando1 that's what he's doing now.

[@SummerSong1366]

inhabitable planets are probably not super-common, so any Duke who considers it to be within his fief most likely knew about it from Imperial Star Charts and his Fief Inventory Archive. If it's not in the fief, then it is frontier situation - he had to send forward recon/surveillance parties, then probably it will not be that expensive, as few nobles will want to live in the hole so far from anything important that it was only recently found. Nobles did not exactly flood the New World with the intention to live there - if some did, it is only to exploit it and to live closer to the capital using that money. So the premise of selling it to the nobles and high value of real estate there is dubious.

[@pepinillorick5741]

Remember to always follow the first rule of intergalactic invasions: theres like a hundred first rule's of it.

[@sharkychris]

"The Equations of Invasions" - This should be the title of the modern day reboot of "The Art of War"

[@Rendaro]

"You don't invade the planet of the lava people if your species has gasoline for blood" ... Welp, back to the drawing board! We'll get ya one day lava people... one day!

[@captainanopheles4307]

There are "Spite Invasions" to prevent contact with a third civilization or because we are in a strategically important place - "The African Village Solution".

[@arsha1434]

Well what were these alien empires expecting, they gave command of the armies of billions to a single disconnected writer!

[@rafagd]

Rule #1 of warfare: There are multiple rules #1 of warfare

[@nmh1120]

This is by far the best channel I've ever found on KZbin. Incredibly well made, informative, and inspiring. Each episode is like a college lecture on futurism, physics, engineering, philosophy, or astronomy. It's like there's a video on every science related topic I've ever thought about, in extensive detail. Such a breathe of fresh air in the age of doomer-ism as well. Thanks for making these videos Isaac and keep up the great work.

[@NotNitehawk]

Don't forget, you also get a great lesson in the first rule of warfare

[@Sky_Guy]

Rule of Warfare #1: Don't tell your enemy everything you know. Rule of Warfare #2:

[@Tolredan]

With regard to Dune, the reason they do not terraform Dune is an economic and political one, not a technological one. Sandworms are colossal, worm-like creatures that live on the desert planet Arrakis. The sandworms' larvae produce a drug called "melange" (known colloquially as "the spice"), the most essential and valuable commodity in the universe because it makes safe and accurate interstellar travel possible. Reducing the amount of deserts would reduce the supply of spice directly, so they stopped the terraforming of Dune early on, and have since made it into a specialized mining colony. Additionally, large scale engineering projects attract the worms because of the amount of noise they make, and they do not want to kill them because they produce spice, so creating massive resevoirs is simply too dangerous, both in the making, and the potential conflict with the worms.

[@yveslafrance2806]

What is needed is a movie with aliens wanting to steal the hydrogen in our atmosphere

[@jonmurph589]

😂😂 yeah, or steal the moon for rocks

[@yveslafrance2806]

Rule of Warfare #1 If a Rule of Warfare #1 is not sufficient, you’re not using enough

[@crableah]

I've always wondered why aliens looking for resources focus on JUST earth? In my eyes an intelligent interstellar civilization would probably mine every possible source of a resource, this makes more logical sense and also shows how much of a threat they are if you're writing a story

[@mjk9388]

Great episode. Thanks for answering the last question I had. I was thinking the only reason someone would want to kill us is because they didn't want us turning into competition down the road.

[@swimmer21211]

The first rule of warfare, grab a drink and a snack

[@liammorgan1413]

When it comes to motives, it wouldn't be beyond the scope of an interstellar empire to do so under the premise that they are doing it for our own good, emphasizing that their opponents on the galactic stage would do far worse. This is admittedly taking a page out of a lengthy history we have as a species, going back to the days of King Cyrus, where regional and global powers alike habitually jockey for influence over their neighbours even in the presence of a diplomatic body like the United Nations. After all, that's the first rule of warfare: The enemy can't bring friends to fight you if those friends are in your pocket.

[@samuelrodriguez9801]

Imagine if aliens came to hire humans as mercenaries for their creativity and ruthlessness.

[@bobologic6849]

I want the entire list (a whole episode) on the #1 rules of warfare

[@RandomYT05_01]

What if the reason why we haven't been conquered was because space is huge and there is no reason to conquer when there's lots of good stuff literally everywhere around you.

[@robbirose7032]

Another welcome episode. I look forward to watching. Thanks.

[@isaacarthurSFIA]

You're very welcome, enjoy!

[@BubbleoniaRising]

For my money, the best reasons for an alien invasion are: 1) to "share" their wacky space religion. 2) for sexy humans. 3) to badger us into investing in Galacti-coin.

[@jlselc]

I do wish you would do a compilation video on all of your #1 rule of warfare. I remember a platoon sgt saying "there is only one #1 rule of warfare, disregard all other rules of warfare. Just win."

[@hovant6666]

The only resource can think of that Earth has in abundance that other bodies lack is phosphorus, although having the technology to invade Earth for it implies also having the technology to manufacture it through nuclear alchemy, removing the need for invasion

[@benmcreynolds8581]

I always thought "Signs" was so funny that the aliens were deathly reactive to water 💦 yet then why come to earth at all? It's like "Mars Attacks" where country music kills the aliens. That's actually hilarious tho 😆

[@byaafacehead]

1:18 Tsk tsk, how do they always forget.. it's literally the first rule of warfare!

[@MonkeySimius]

I've always enjoyed "The first rule of warfare" bit. I was hoping you would employ it once or twice in this episode. I didn't leave disappointed. I think I've been watching your channel since your first episodes. Back then it was really hard to understand you but the content was well worth the effort. You had mentioned that you had a speech impediment and that we should turn on closed captioning to help. That really did help. But man. You are clear as day now. I don't think it is just that I've gotten used to it either. I imagine your audio setup is a bit better now... But really I think your speech therapy has done wonders. You put in the effort and the results are absolutely stunning. Good job.

[@michaelmcchesney6645]

My favorite living author (Robert Heinlein being my all around favorite) is David Weber. Weber's most famous books are about a future space naval officer named Honor Harington. My least favorite of his novels,is Out of the Dark which is about an alien invasion of present day Earth. The book deals with various groups of humans fighting against the invaders after most of Earth's military forces have been destroyed. My problem with the book concerns the twist ending which I don't want to spoil in case anyone wants to read the book. So SPOILERS AHEAD: ************************************* One of the characters, Mircea Basarab, is a Romanian man fighting to protect his local population. He and his men are amazingly successful which is explained at the end of the book when that Romanian is revealed to be Count Dracula. Yes, that Count Dracula. He and his "men" possess all or nearly all of the traditional vampire powers including the ability to transform into mist. Additionally, only new vampires are vulnerable to sunlight. At the end of the book, the aliens pull out their forces intending to just exterminate the human race from orbit. But the vampires clung to the outside of the alien ships as they left the planet whereupon they took control of the alien armada. The very end of the book is a postscript explaining that the still humans and vampires then use the armada to conquer the empire that sent it to Earth creating the Terran Empire. He wrote a sequel called Out of the Light that I haven't read yet but which I will probably read once I finish rereading the Honor Harrington series for 6th time. But i had to comment about this book as it featured both alien invasion and vampires.

[@JamesTyrrellOnline]

You should definitely try Jack Campbell's lost fleet series, I think he's done the most amazing job of explaining battles in space.

[@Fridaey13txhOktober]

That spoiler is actually good than a problem, it is a valid reason why humanity actually wins. 😄

[@michaelmcchesney6645]

@@Fridaey13txhOktober For some definitions of valid anyway. It was sort of the equivalent of reading a hard science fiction novel only to have Glinda the Good Witch appear and defeat the villains. I mean talk about a deus ex machina!!!

[@michaelmcchesney6645]

@@Fridaey13txhOktober I've read and enjoyed that series. I haven't seen any new books in that series in a while. I will have to see if John G. Henry (Jack Campbell is a pen name) has written anything new recently.

[@patrick8116]

I utterly despise Out of the dark. An alien vietnam war would have been good, magic space vampires solve everything is not.

[@dndsl3436]

The Day of the Triffids movie is also an example of writers seriously changing the original story. In the novels, the Triffids were a carnivorous plant genetically engineered in the Soviet Union.

[@nostrum6410]

didnt they come from space? and something about a blinding meteor shower, wow its ben awhile

[@dndsl3436]

@@nostrum6410 It's been a while for me too. I read it in high school. My English teachers often got us to note and discuss differences between adaptations. I remember the Soviet Union part because our teacher pointed out that, at the time the book was written, the USSR was closed off to the rest of the world and there was speculation about what they were doing there. My teacher believed this was the writer trying to make a plausible origin story for the triffids. Yeah, the meteor shower caused everyone who saw it to go blind. The triffids had been around for a while and where cultivated in many parts of the world by that point though. If I remember correctly, it was implied to be an orbital weapon, either a test or a malfunction. There was a discussion between the main characters about every nation putting all kinds of weapons and things in orbit at the time. In the movie, having the triffids come from space and putting the metoer shower and their appearance together simplifies the setting and makes for easier story telling.

[@royrogers3133]

I see, so Hollywood is making bad movies to stop a potential alien conquest. How heroic.

[@johnharvey5412]

In a weird coincidence, I just finished listening to the audiobook of The Day of the Triffid, and it was unironically a masterpiece of apocalyptic science fiction, even if the science itself is a bit hazy at times.

[@robert48044]

Thanos was killing because he was a Simp for Lady Death, that should've been in the movies.

[@g.m.2427]

Made me think of 'Footfall' by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle.

[@isaacarthurSFIA]

Was very nearly the book of the month today :)

[@bbartky]

That was the first book I thought of too! When the book came out I remember reading an interview with Larry Niven where he said the biggest challenge he and Jerry Pournelle had when writing was coming up with a plausible reason for an alien alien invasion since most examples fall apart with just a little bit of scrutiny.

[@g.m.2427]

@@bbartky The story reasoning was fairly decent i thought, it was of course a bit of it's time but even so better than most invasion stories i can remember

[@longWriter]

Shoot...when I was much younger, like a teenager, I created a fanfic that was an alien invasion, essentially. And the premise was that the aliens were after _iron_, and the technobabble explanation of that was that the kind of fusion that ends up producing iron is rare in the universe, and iron was incredibly useful for building some higher technologies that're beyond human capability. I didn't even _consider_ having the aliens assault Mars, even though its crust is made of rust. Though I did at least at the time have the aliens go after the asteroid belt---indeed, their master stroke would've been to teleport the whole asteroid belt out of the Solar system into one of their star systems to make mining safer; the heroes ended up thwarting them by redirecting the teleport to a star system in the middle of nowhere, owned by those aliens' enemies (and humanity's allies).

[@tommyfishhouse8050]

Alternate History Hub covered a book series where a boots on the ground alien invasion actually was well thought out in a plausible way. The Worldwar series By Harry Turtledove. Where an alien invasion by a species calling themselves 'The Race' happens during World War 2 and the books chronicle the ups and downs of the struggles between humanity and the race through the 1940s up until the 80s. Technologically. The Aliens are only as advanced as human beings circa the early 2000s with the exception of hypersleep and FTL technology. Which puts them on somewhat equal military footing with humanity. Their motivation is religious and political, seeing conquering earth the the same way The Spaniards in conquering the new world. They want to convert humanity for glory of the empire and to save the souls of their human conquests. And humanity is the first species they've encountered that is even approximately on their technological level, since the only other two worlds they've encountered that have sentient life were only in the medieval or stone age, and they only initiate the attack because they're worried that if they leave to return to the homeworld with their findings and bring back reinforcements they'll return to find humanity has technologically caught up or exceeded them. It's not that well written a book. But a good amount of thought went into the plausibility of worldbuilding for the alien invaders.

[@MrGreenotwo]

Thank you for all the work you do. You have really opened my mind to the various concepts of the universe.

[@shishio87]

You kind of came close with the aliens thinking they were eating souls, but did you consider then coming for religious reasons? Maybe they believe that any other religion is an affront to their 'one true god',, and they have the power and tech to make an issue of it.

[@Electric_Bagpipes]

24:00 I love that you bring up that. Look up the reasoning behind the world of the manga “The Promised Neverland”

[@seanaugagnon6383]

The most rare thing in the universe is life. A Pearl is infinitely more rare than gold. Life and the things produced by it are the truly rare things in the universe.

[@byaafacehead]

I did always think the most plausible valuable resource unique to Earth (especially one that makes it worth not just sterilizing the planet) would be the genetic material of it's inhabitants. It might be really hard to recreate billions of years of evolution/natural selection especially with life that is presumably a distinct lineage from some alien life, as a pool of possible diversity for genetic engineering. Kind of like of rainforests of today can be sources of unique molecules for antibiotics or drugs. Cost of invasion would be much less than the computation needed to brute force a similar amount of complexity. Edit: sort of addressed around 22:00

[@rommdan2716]

You could just build a similation for that

[@robertanderson5092]

Wouldn't quantum computing make that calculation much easier?

[@byaafacehead]

Though a peaceful solution could be even cheaper

[@byaafacehead]

@@rommdan2716 yeah but it might be cheaper to study the real thing with a small probe (by the aliens standards) than dedicate valuable computation to simulate it. Simulation, especially of complex physical phenomena, may never become so 'easy' to simulate, and therefore be expensive

[@rommdan2716]

@@byaafacehead Then why not buying it?

[@scottthomas6202]

I saw the movie " Signs"....my guess is the aliens were drunken frat boys in rented starships. Why have invisible ships that you park and don't move ? A bird flew into a parked ship, so you know where it is. Free starship for us. I read a science fiction short story in junior high about an alien who won a chunk of space with our solar system in it as a bar bet. He visited to decide whether to keep it or sell it...

[@breakaleg10]

Of all alien invasions the Goa'uld of Stargate SG-1 have the best reason: they see us as a nuisance which must either be crushed or annihilated

[@mifiwi3438]

Ah I've always waited for the First Rule of Warfare Compendium

[@JohnA...]

Most of these are the reasons I think the "dark forest" concept is absurd. There really is no good reason for another species to attack another one on a galactic/universe scale. There are enough resources out there and if you have the ability to get to another planet then you likely have the tech to gather far more than you could use without risking conflict on an inhabited world. You also risk retaliation if you do so from a larger force, be it the one you attack OR a "peacekeeper" type civilization older than your own.

[@NotNitehawk]

The whole point of the dark forest is that any sufficiently advanced civilization, even one vastly inferior in technology to you, has the potential to completely eradicate you from existence, communications take many years, and there is no effective way to determine whether or not that civilization will be aggressive or not. You eliminate them because it is the safest option, and the first strike is not something you give your enemy, that's the first rule of warfare after all. When you twist physics to allow for ftl travel, dark forest falls apart because all of those previous points are no longer true. Check out the Kurzgesagt video on it, it makes a lot more sense then just killing civs because.

[@JohnA...]

@@NotNitehawk I've already heard/read more than enough to know what the "dark forest" is and that its beyond stupid, only primitive tribalistic apes lacking education or logical capacity would ever think its a reasonable notion. Those would also not be the ones who are capable of traveling, or even attacking, another world. No advanced species, especially capable of interstellar travel, has any reason to attack/invade another inhabited world. There are NO good reasons, only excuses that humans make because we have been fighting over nonsense for eons and haven't gotten to the point where most understand the vastness universe. The first rule of warfare is to avoid war if at all possible, that includes not risking pissing off someone you don't understand who could potentially destroy you easily, and NOT striking first just because you are trigger happy cowards.

[@joelcarson4602]

The most insidious invasion of all: Tourbots.

[@ProfessorJayTee]

1st Rule of Warfare Discussion: All Rules of Warfare are the 1st Rule. This confuses a studious enemy enough to allow you to win. In his videos, Isaac Arthur is making certain we humans will win the First Interstellar War. (Coming soon to a homeworld near you!)

[@ncc2110]

When can we expect a "First rules of warfare" compendium?

[@singletona082]

Best reason I can think of for invasion rather than orbital bombardment and mining the resulting chunks you get from, say, flinging Ceres at the planet is something within the biosphere is useful. Either for medical, or purely research purposes. Or it could be a case of galactic rules of war demanding that when declaring war against a civilization of lesser technology, you must fight on a rough paridy. Meaning in atmosphere ships, ground troops, etc with orbital command and control. Stil lfar mroe advanced than us, but at the same time it gives a sense of 'fairness'. Plus if the species being invaded shows resistance instead of getting steamrolled, the rest of the galactic community can roll in offering aid in rebuilding and integration. Basically: 'Here is the stick. Now here is a carrot. Let's play nice.'

[@shcdemolisher]

'And welcome to the galactic party!'

[@seanaugagnon6383]

These are some of the best space based videos anywhere. Not just KZbin. Netflix has nothing in you folks.

[@thiagom8478]

I believe that the "fiction gender" of alien invasion deserves an extra portion of good will, since it is build on 2 particularly difficult issues. First you must have the powerful invader wanting to conquer or destroy Earth. Second (and way more difficult) you must have a way for Earth win in the end, usually. I do like "vampire invaders". Is not hard to imagine a specie that eats intelligent species on purpose and by preference, possibly for religious reasons. Just look at the reason actual tribes famous for eating their human enemies did that. They would not fear to find some stronger specie with moral issues against their diet because such diet would probably not be considered morally dubious in the first place (but, possibly, they could see farming animals instead of hunting them, or selective breeding evil acts. Would not occur to us that they can be). Perhaps the morally questionable (and disgusting) act for some specie is eat non-talking meat. Pet slaves is another great reason for wanting to capture humans. We are cute, mostly clean, and we don't have claws or too many pointy teeth. A human puppy is the kind of gift you would like to buy to your gran daughter in her next birthday. In a specie of just a few trillion worlds the human population could end very fast. The second part is way more difficult for me. I sit and thing "what could the chief of a tribe in any of the American Continents have done to stop the invasion and keep their lands?". "What smart strategy would have kept not just Spain, or Portugal, or England away but all Christianity?" nothing comes to mind.

[@ustanik9921]

The aliens need not be that much more advanced than us, if at all. If conditions are right, they might even attempt space travel with their version of our 18th century technology. For example, if their planet's gravity is very low and they could survive acceleration as when shot out of a big cannon out of orbit. They might have extremely slow metabolisms to allow them to travel space for thousands of years without issue. Their slowness would also give us an advantage. On your point about native Americans, just look at how Japan survived. They mass produced western guns, reverse-engineered our tech and studied western combat doctrine. The Mapuche and the Maori did this to an extent, but presumably failed because of a lower population. Sioux were quite dangerous when they adopted horse archery, only becoming obsolete with the invention of the revolver. So if we figure out how the alien tech works, unite the planet, and keep adapting we might have a shot.

[@thiagom8478]

I see the point you make in your first paragraph,@@ustanik9921 . In a sense they did something similar to that in Stellar Troops, the invading force is powerful but their "technology" is product of evolution, arguably. So, they should not be able to adapt it as fast as we can. To stay in this fictional gender the invasor must be mighty. What you described, in one sense, could suggest more a horde of refugees than military invasor. (what could be enough to destroy our civilization, by the way. Rome didn't fall under a superior force, nevertheless we are not having this conversation in Latin for a reason). As for your second paragraph, I believe the ideas are good and plausible, and would lead to a better end than most if used in a movie. However, I don't think this end would look acceptable for most audiences. Because the point in all those movies is that "things go back to normal" after the invasion. Not just HUMANITY survives, but UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (and presumably some other national states) survive, as they are in territory and organization. We keep territory, our sovereignty, and enjoy a complete victory against the invasor. That is Japan reducing US to non-existence and its population to paleolithic technology, after eat those 2 nukes. What is left of Earth governs, after being chewed into a single improvised gorilla-war centred nation, signing an Unconditional Surrender and surviving that way don't fit the genre expectations. Even if we survive to reengineer the technology of our invasor and surpass them economically one day (like Japan tried to do, and perhaps could have done with a little more lucky). Coming to think about this, I think the most insolvable element in the conventions of Alien Invasion, and Post-Apocalyptic stories in general, is this return to the status that existed before the invasion. In all but minor details. Civilizations are way too big things, with way too many moving parts: is impossible to recreate such a thing, once it is broken. No matter what broke it. You can create something new, inspired in what existed before. Like the British Empire and the Excepcionalist US are both "spiritual recreations" of Ancient Rome. However, you will have different laws, territory, people and moral values. Other technology, other economic base. It will be, really, something new. Something new is what the authors try to avoid. Because most fans of this gender don't want to see it at the end of movies.

[@ustanik9921]

@@thiagom8478 I agree with all that you said, only want to add that I mentioned Japan in the context of European colonisation, think 16th century instead of WW2. So Japan is one of the only nations that never got colonised. Maybe a WW2-like combat is possible too, but this suggests roughly equal technological level, it was really the economic output of the US that won the war (US could afford the luxury to develop the nukes while Japan had to resort to kamikazes). Or the reverse, in Europe a technologically superior (slightly) Germany was defeated. However, I was mostly aiming at the idea of us stealing/trading/taking tech from the alien explorationary party, which might be autonomous drones. Perhaps this could also be the reason for the conflict somehow. One thing is undeniable, from the moment aliens come here, the world won't ever be the same. Even if the aliens have worse/equal/alternative tech from ours, still the socieity would shange dramatically to allow for more unity. I don't think it's necessary for audiences to go with the "going back to old" story. I believe a good part of the audience would love to see humanity quickly adapting and evolving after taking the alien's tech, but it might just be me.

[@thiagom8478]

One could argue that they don't even have to came here,@@ustanik9921 . If we find some advanced civilization of aliens who are too far away to came visit, or don't want to, but have a technology that allows them to communicate with us: that, alone, would change humanity in more ways than we can predict. And not because they would teach us any new technologies or sciences. Even if that was not the case. Even it they only shared literature, ancient history and religion, or something like that. Humans would no longer be the only source of description and opinions about humanity available for us. We would get the chance to look at ourselves in an external mirror. For the first time, one that would not be fictional. I think you can get an audience for your movies. However, that would not be the audience of Alien Invasion movies. You are cooking a new fictional gender in your cauldron.

[@destroyer1667]

​@@ustanik9921you cannot use cannons for interstellar travel, even if the planets escape velocity Is tiny, the star systems won't be and you cannot possibly aim at a different planet even within the same solar system without atleast modern computers (or maneuverable craft capable of changing course, which requires atleast cold war era tech). For *interstellar trajectories*, especially at very low speed, you'd need the ability to change course + extremely good sensors and computers and ship hulls that can survive this trip for tens of thousands of years. Even modern tech would be vastly insufficient for this. Then you also need to survive atmospheric reentry from an interstellar trajectory, gaining velocity while falling into the suns gravity well... Yeah, I can't think of any realistic way for an alien invader to not be orders of magnitude more advanced than us even if you rig the environment to a ridiculous extend

[@UnfortunatelyTheHunger]

Another thing I'd point out, is that any spacefaring empire that'd be militaristic enough to even consider invading other planets, would simply have too many internal struggles that it'd just collapse under its own weight before any claims could ever be realized

[@ruskokollektiv5457]

Point of order: the ability to make Arrakis into a garden planet isn't unknown in the universe of Dune. In fact, the Emperor sends a single planetary geologist to work up a plan. But it makes all the rich and powerful more money and power to keep it a desert, so they just ... don't. That part seems pretty realistic, unfortunately Also, Arrakis is the middle east and spice is oil. So, there's that.

[@Agent29416]

I feel like we need a list of all the first rules of warfare. I remember at least 3

[@timbomb374]

I recon intelligence is kind of an underdog trait. We developed intelligence because we weren't the biggest and strongest creature in our environment. But it isn't just intelligence that made us successful, social groups, complex communication and the ability to coexist with other species like dogs are what propelled us to dominance. Any species who is all about combat is probably just gonna get wiped out by the stronger creatures in their world before they can become advanced.

[@the_sage_of_dragons1881]

NOTIFICATION GANG!!!

[@TheCrazyCapMaster]

OHHHHHH

[@cnidsniffer]

Eyyyy~ 😎👉👉

[@-Thauma-]

💋

[@joshuaswinarton3274]

Let’s goooooooo

[@neeneko]

if I recall correctly, Ada Hoffmann's 'Outside' books deal with AIs that essentially need to eat human souls to survive, and thus built a whole theological framework that resulted in humans giving themselves to the machines on death.

[@-Thauma-]

The Keanu version of The Day the Earth Stood Still sucks big time. The original is way better, inspite of the age

[@Deridus]

It had promise, but the casting and subsequent acting seemed really ham fisted.

[@-Thauma-]

@@Deridus I agree, - and we haven't even mentioned the ending of the two movies. There is a huge difference.