Islam, Christ, and Liberty | Mustafa Akyol | EP 201

This episode was recorded on October 18th 2021.
Mustafa Akyol joins me to discuss Muslim history and tradition. We touch on subjects like Jesus Christ from a Christian and Muslim perspective, the Virgin Mary's role in the Quran, separation of church and state as an ideology, the dangers of literalism when facing religious texts, and much more.
Mustafa Akyol is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute's Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity, where he focuses on the intersection of public policy, Islam, and modernity. He's contributed as an opinion writer for the New York Times since 2013, covering politics and religion in the Muslim world.
Published by W. W. Norton, his 2011 book, "Islam Without Extremes: A Muslim Case for Liberty," presents a strong argument for Islamic liberalism. The book was long-listed for the Lionel Gelber Prize for best nonfiction book. It was also praised by The Financial Times as "a forthright and elegant Muslim defense of freedom." His other books include "Reopening Muslim Minds" and "The Islamic Jesus."
Find Mustafa's most important book, "Reopening Muslim Minds," here
www.amazon.com/Reopening-Musl...
His book "The Islamic Jesus," discussed in this episode:
www.amazon.com/Islamic-Jesus-...
Find a free PDF of his book "Why, As a Muslim, I Defend Liberty":
libertarianism.org/books/why-...
Or visit his page at the Cato Institute:
cato.org/people/mustafa-akyol
_____
[00:00] Introduction
[02:47] Regarding the separation of church and state, what do Christians and Muslims have in common?
[10:36] What are some similarities between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam?
[11:05] "I see the world's history, and I see a Judeo-Christian/Islamic history because it's all Abrahamic monotheism starting at Judaism." Mustafa Akyol
[11:46] What the Three Abrahamic religions have in common-monotheism, rooting in the same tradition; and strange insistence on a book as the bedrock of culture
[12:45] Unique ideas of religious and societal tolerance through different ages in history
[21:10] The connection Jesus and Islam
[28:45] What is the totalitarian impulse?
[29:30] "I think it is an understatement of the severity of the totalitarian problem to attribute it merely to the religious." - Jordan Peterson
[31:27] Critiquing the inevitable flaws of the purely secular state. The benefits of a higher law on the unification of people and not deifying human rulers
[34:59] "There is another value in Sharia law-[it] was separate from the rulers, even above the rulers." - Mustafa Akyol
[39:35] Briefly touching on the ruling class in Saudi Arabia. A brief history of the Wahhabi's rise to power, and how a group of extreme thinkers gained more power than would have been naturally possible
[45:36] Bad Ideas from the West are, in fact, devastating
[48:45] A modern Muslim's take on religion, power, and the birth of Islam with the prophet Muhammad
[55:15] "The whole thorny moral problem of what to do when you are being oppressed is not something let's say as a species we have figured out." - JBP
[01:01:32] What is Mustafa's goal in studying Islam?
[01:06:49] A study of how God's commandments are delivered as a teacher or legislator
[01:18:51] "The inherent problem with literalism in interpretation. The perspective of the reader creates so much of the truth in this model that they can then impose on the world around them." - JBP
[01:26:20] Regarding reason and Sharia law, one group has said that Sharia indicates what's inherently right and wrong in the world. Another group, that it only creates that difference through the imposition
[01:27:01] Mary's role in the Quran and Islamic tradition
[01:31:29] The influence of gnostic Christian gospels on Muhammad in Mustafa's opinion. The odd state of the Jewish Christians who were accepted by neither side
[01:35:16] Final questions on Jesus Christ from Christian and Muslim perspectives
[01:43:35] Wrapping up
_____
#Quran #Islam #Liberalism
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[@ohrbahir]

As an Orthodox Jew and rabbi who has thought "unorthodoxly" for years and grappled with these issues, it's refreshing to hear an Islamic scholar taking an approach with which I deeply resonate. Almost all of his examples made me smile, as I could find analogues in Torah/halacha. I appreciate your work, both of you.

[@Gthuh]

I have a question, does jewdism claim to be the last religion to come from God? And if no why don't you believe in Islam since it's so similar to jewdism and muhamad was mentioned in the Torah?

[@Mesorah.6]

@@Gthuh It can be explained. Jews belong to the Sinaitic Covanent which is bound with the Torah. The Torah is eternally binding on Jews as a nation, as the Torah itself says, and the tens of prophets repeat: "For all time". However the universal covanent of mankind (Covanent of Noah) is the birthright of every human being. There is no requirement for anyone to become a Jew (which is a nation), the only requirement is for people to believe in God and the seven Noahitic laws. Because Islam supports the Noahitic laws, Jews have no reason to condemn it. It's for the most part what Jews want for humanity. But they also do not drop their identity as Jews, because again, the Torah is eternal. The Jewish people are also eternal, as repeated by the holy prophets so many times. Essentially Jews will not contradict what the Torah and prophets said, and they support non-Jews coming to God. But becoming a Jew is a more specific action that is voluntary and not necessary. This is quite different from the paradigms of Christianity and Islam, which require everyone to convert to a specific religion of said name. I hope this helps.

[@rashidaquil5284]

@@petarjovanovic1481 Jesus too was not mentioned ... Torah is corrupt like bible

[@Gthuh]

@@petarjovanovic1481 actually the messiah is Jesus according to islam but he didn't come back yet:), muhammad is the last prophet not the messiah

[@Gthuh]

@@Mesorah.6 did the Torah claim to be eternal like the quran did? As in God said that its eternal and will be protected by him?

[@TheRedPrometheus]

I’m a Muslim who’s been following JP for like 4 years now and I’ve had so much hunger for this type of discussion. I believe there’s so much to explore here and I hope there’s more. May Allah bless everyone!

[@smhashimnasser5619]

@ All of these rights are happening sir. Isn't it obvious? The islamic world is diverse, you even have extremely liberal people who call themselves muslims. You have extremists too. Lets stop using oversimplification. I'm a westerner, born and bred in the UK and I love my country I'm allowed to practice my religion peacefully without interferring with others. There's no compulsion in religion so anyone can leave Islam peacefully. It's the right wing horrible extremists who don't follow this.

[@mohanadbakain282]

@@smhashimnasser5619 No

[@smhashimnasser5619]

@@mohanadbakain282 Would you like to elaborate?

[@ahellooo]

This is Jordan Peterson leaping into a new height of excellence. A very wise and realistic conversation. Just when i thought I could not admire Mr Peterson.more... he compulsed me. As for Mr akoy he brought to the forefront the true nature of monotheism and Islam in a very clear and humanistic light. THANK YOU

[@mohanadbakain282]

@@smhashimnasser5619 gays, apostates, critics of islam aren't respected and protected in the islamic world. And that isn't an extremist postion. It's the mainstream position in islamic countries

[@kamelsheatt3791]

When, as a muslim who lives in Canada, I see such a very respectful, deep, meaningfull and peacefull conversation about religions and such an introduction about the Islamic faith and how the religions are connected, it boosts my self confidence and gives me hope that better days will shine on us, and how this conversation might make more and more people will want to learn about other beliefs and religions, and learn from eachother. I'm a big fan of Dr. Peterson, it would be an honor that some day to get to meet him and shake his hand and tell him thank you, and it is also a real pleasure to have known Mustafa Akyol, a scholar for which I have respect and admiration , and how interested I am in his writings and books. Thank you both so much for this interesting and exciting conversation!!.

[@Nico.Robin7]

@Jinga Randy Lol.

[@twntwrs]

@Jinga Randy No less so than Christianity if you take into account what it has wrought during its entire history.

[@GhettoArabSage]

@Jinga Randy what's so dangerous about it?

[@twntwrs]

@Jinga Randy Jesus was a mythological character. The Christian religions: Catholicism Protestantism, Mormonism etc have visited immeasurable suffering and retardation upon the world just like Islam.

[@twntwrs]

@Jinga Randy Jesus is historical, yes, in the sense that he existed. However, mythological in the sense of the stories told about him. Yes, Mo was a warlord, who really existed. Not sure what you mean by satanic since Satan is a mythological figure for whose existence there is no evidence.

[@docholiday7758]

Outstanding dialogue. I look forward to more dialogue between Jordan Peterson and Mustafa Akyol. I would like to hear Mustafa's commentary on the Muslim belief that Jesus will preside over Judgement Day. I've spent a good portion of my life living in the Muslim world and was married to a Muslim woman for 25 years. I converted to Islam before marrying her. Sadly she passed a number of years ago but I am still very close to her family...they will always be my family too. I've developed a deep love and respect for the way Islam promotes a strong sense of brotherhood, sisterhood, family and community....to a much greater extent than mainstream Christianity. A primary difference between Islam and Christianity from my own perspective is that Islam is much more prescriptive in how everyone should live their daily lives, down to specific acts that must be performed every day and over the course of one's life...e.g. the Five Pillars of Islam. There is no analogue I'm aware of in mainstream Christianity.

[@fb767]

I'm sorry about your loss. Thanks for sharing!

[@NightinGal89]

Lol that's probably because Christians didn’t also study the oral torah. I come from a Christian background, and I started digging into Judaism some years ago, and it's very rich in teachings about how to live your life, but it's taught from one generation of rabbis to the next. There's a lot of wisdom to it, but ultimately, we western Christians just use common sense and knowledge to decide how we live, which is why we were always the most developed nations

[@sajitmohammad9168]

@@NightinGal89 free trade and no war. But Muslim countries was ruled by british and other super-powers. After than civil wars in Muslim countries started. But you should know wars in arab land and Afghanistan it’s Israel and american geopolitics.

[@sadeksama5057]

If you want to make her grateful pray for her everyday when you pray for God

[@ademali8199]

Sorry for your loss brother be well

[@losasakarosa9050]

I like that this was purely a discussion rather than a debate.

[@Illlium]

That's what you ought to do when you have different knowledge areas. Debate is only good for slaying bad opinions.

[@13bm90]

How could it be a debate when they're both resonating on the same frequency?

[@jesan733]

@@Illlium debates aren't good for slaying bad opinions either. Debates are good charisma contests, little else.

[@Illlium]

@@jesan733 Depends what you're into, I listen to debates for the arguments.

[@jesan733]

@@Illlium hard to learn anything that way because it's almost always far too shallow. The usual outcome isn't that anything is slain, rather both sides' spectators believe their guy won, because they said things that their own sides like to hear. Perhaps one can get inspiration for learning, though, a few pointers to read more on.

[@jasonwilliams759]

I`m sure a lot of people like me have been hungering for a calm open discussion looking at Christianity & Islam. Completely riveting. I am Christian and this talk helped me recognize my ignorance. Bridges need to be built perhaps more now than ever. Deep appreciation to you both and i hope we will be blessed with more such discussions.

[@prestigiousdetailingLLC]

💯

[@harunkaraaslan4002]

As a muslim I was waiting a long time to see what jordan has to say about islam. I'd hope some day he will do with the Quran/ Islam something like his series about the Biblical stories.

[@iyadal-najjar3512]

More precisely, between Muslims and Christians in the west. Here in the middle east we have passed that point long ago due to the fact we have been living together since day one of Islam.

[@tahwsisiht]

✔

[@iyadal-najjar3512]

@Ruus Christian prince is a huge fraud who uses the viewers ignorance of the Arabic language to spread his lies. If you want to learn about Islam go to Muslims Chanelles. David wood, Christian prince and apus are people who makes their living out of spreading lies about Islam. If you want an academic one that is not run by a Muslim then I can only recommend let's talk religion run by Filip.

[@jaye2491]

I am so so excited to hopefully watch Jordan begin to look into Islam. After seeing the incredible depth he has look into the Bible and Judeo-Christian religion over his life, listening to him learning about his self admitted lack of knowledge on Islam will be amazing to watch. Such an incredible man with an open mind and dedication to learning.

[@Desh282]

I’m a Christian Slav and this conversation was mind blowing to me.

[@blobbins17]

Why?

[@Unknown1Percent]

@@blobbins17 We knew what the Real Islam Book Purpose and not some extremist followers like the ones we have and others have.

[@tomgncc]

As a deeply devoted Christian and pastor of a local church I found this conversation very interesting, insightful and was glad that I could listen in.

[@iyadal-najjar3512]

sorry for spamming. I wrote this comment but I think you will be interested in it. I hope JP reads it. I am really grateful Dr. Jordan Peterson for inviting a Muslim figure to your podcast. I am one of the many Muslim conservative (Sunni Traditionalists) fans who follow you and like you that is why I am always happy to see something like this. l like Mustafa Akyol and his ideas but there are many mistakes that he has made in this episode. For me, the most important one is the law of abrogation. It does exist in Islamic Usuls but not for the verses he discussed. Basically, you only have to read the full verses to understand what God wants to say and what Muslim scholars understood for the past 1400 years. The verse that says "Fight in the cause of Allah ((those who fight you)), but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.". Chapter 2 vs 190. The peaceful verses he has chosen to be eternal actually says "Allah does not forbid you to be kind and to act justly to those who have neither made war on your Religion nor expelled you from your homes. Allah loves the just". Chapter 60 vs 8 This is one of the many mistakes that today Muslim liberals make. They basically do not read the Quran or look read how the Muslim scholars explained these verses. Just right the word tafsir next to the verses in google and see what the traditional Muslims tell us about them. This is clearly misrepresenting the traditional Muslims who see in your ideas and speeches great importance and values. That is why it pains us to see this sort miseducating the people about the way we understand Islam. This was discussed in the following. [55:15] "The whole thorny moral problem of what to do when you are being oppressed is not something let's say as a species we have figured out." - JBP There are many other problems but overall I am happy to see a Muslim figure. I have been recommending many Muslim figures here on youtube but after this episode, I believe Abd Al-Hakim Murad is the best one you can have. He is a traditionalist who can represent us. Remember DR. JP you said once something like does not hear about me from a transgender but listen to me. I hope the misrepresenting and miseducation of us ( the majority of Muslims around the world (Traditionalist Sunni who see Iran and Saudia as true Islamic regimes) He is a good fit for these types of questions. Most of these questions have been under discussion in the Islamic world for the past 1400 under something called Usul and Abd Al-Hakim Murad is the best one out there in this tradition. I really hope that you do not fail us and bring a traditionalist Muslim to your podcast. After canceling with Hijab I lost faith in you JP with many other Muslim fans. Now, I have hope again. You are willing to bring Muslim figures so please bring someone like Abd Al-Hakim Murad who really presents the majority of Muslims around the world. Please if you are with me regardless of your faith and want someone to represent Islamic tradition and educate you on this podcast please like the comment maybe Dr. JP will see it.

[@tomgncc]

@@iyadal-najjar3512 Thank you for your comment. I will consider looking up the persons you mentioned to have a better understanding of different schools of thought and teaching within Islam.

[@iyadal-najjar3512]

​@@tomgncc Wlc. If you want to know how close is Dr. JP to the traditional Muslims watch this one Star Wars And The Crisis Of Modern Masculinity For Shiekh Abdal Hakim Murad at the same time, the Shiekh has many spiritual lectures as well as academic ones. Also, maybe you will be interested in this one too Shaykh Abdal Hakim Murad on Blogging Theology both on youtube

[@loveandmercy9664]

As a Catholic Peterson is a bit of a hero to our community. Especially his interviews with Bishop Barron and his wife's love of the Rosary. His use of the Bible is very close to the church fathers in our tradition. “I think that Catholicism … that's as sane as people can get” Jordan Peterson

[@loveandmercy9664]

"There are people in other religions who are being led by God’s secret influence to concentrate on those parts of their religion which are in agreement with Christianity, and who thus belong to Christ without knowing it … For example a Buddhist of good will may be led to concentrate more and more on the Buddhist teaching about mercy and to leave in the background (though he might still say he believed) the Buddhist teaching on certain points. Many of the good Pagans long before Christ’s birth may have been in this position” C..S Lewis "If Muslims take Jesus more seriously, they will look at sharia less literally and less militantly. This is good for everybody - including Jews" Mustafa Aykol Amen Imagine if Muslims discovered the Jesus of the sermon of the mount, the prodigal son, the parable of the Good Samaritan? With all due respect to the Quran most of the stories of Jesus in the Quran are from the Apocryphal Gospels which was brought up in the interview.

[@mantotomato]

Now this is tolerance... 2 men with different faith talking in civilized manner, with respect, looking forward to learn from each other. Beautiful and also very informative conversation.

[@ahmadsaad9904]

money and greed for power is humanity greatest problem some ill intentional ppl , can take any ideology and make it serve their evil deeds so many wars been done in the name of freedom , peace .. and so on

[@djonfonsteen6331]

That's not what tolerance is. This is called listening to understand. This is something that is sadly missing globally. Tolerance is living a lie that eats away at the soul, while the hidden hatred bubbles away under the illusion of calm waters. Why not try understanding and acceptance?

[@conejitoist]

I don’t think it is ‘tolerance’ they are smart descent people who understand the differences we have and can talk about it. I don’t think they can go to commune together or pray together because they believe differently. But right, we don’t have to be enemies.

[@loveandmercy9664]

How good and pleasant it is when God’s people live together in unity! It is like precious oil poured on the head, running down on the beard, running down on Aaron’s beard, down on the collar of his robe. It is as if the dew of Hermon were falling on Mount Zion. For there the Lord bestows his blessing, even life forevermore. Psalm 133 I agree. We need more of this on all issues.

[@tangokaleidos1926]

@@djonfonsteen6331 you are confused

[@rebelraccoon9018]

"We have to listen to other people because they might know something we don't" well said Dr. Peterson. 👏

[@ceeez3072]

Can I tag Mohommed Hijab here?

[@nomoregames8103]

No , you need to read their islamic scripture first then ask them ، not a single thing that muslim guy said is true that's what the western muslims sell and people are buy it well , Peterson is a good guy but he have no idea of islam. Islam based on quran and hadith what this guy is saying everything is contradicting quran and law of islam they just trying best to present islam nicely but it's just not true ...smh

[@alireact1827]

@@nomoregames8103 Listening to fake news made you like this. You prefer people to worship idols or man than ALLAH

[@ruds0n895]

I am beyond grateful that this content is available for free. Thank you, Mr Peterson and Mr Akyol.

[@MrIIINOODLESIII]

I never thought of Christianity as much in my childhood when I got my first communion etc. But now that I'm in my mid twenties and after watching Dr. Peterson I realize how important Christian values are to me.

[@j.davila4523]

Same

[@manuke944]

I realized that me Christian and my Muslim friends share a lot of same values, and I think now being surounded by mostly atheists, to have any religion values is good

[@ic.xc.]

Having the exact same experience

[@ic.xc.]

@@Aisatsana1971 you can Google that and actually discover a lot. Instead of commenting.

[@ComfyDents]

The values you probalby think about are not preserved for christians. Other cultures and religions made up the same moral code. Because humans made god, not god made humans. My father is a catholic theologist and I know quite a lot because of him and my socialisation around our cathedral. I share most moral views with the catholic community. Btw the christians and clerics here in Germany are very liberal and open minded compared to f.e. USA or Poland. And I can say that even an atheist like me can have the same good values as the bishop next to me on the sofa. The path of the conviction is a different, but the result is the same. Pls don't believe everyone who doesn't believe in a christian religion isn't able to be a good human. Remember the parable where rhe rich believer? "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." It matters what you do, not what you claim to believe. btw. Jordan talks about that last part when explains why he doesn't like the question " Do you believe in god?"

[@Guyfawx42]

Great conversation - an awful lot of people were looking forward the the JBP chat with Hamza Yusuf, please don’t cancel that indefinitely, that would be a great conversation!

[@vicmubarok]

Please

[@aboubakrlem5210]

Oh wow! I definitely look forward for that! When is that planned?

[@Guyfawx42]

@@aboubakrlem5210 yes, it was announced for early October, not sure what happened after that

[@zubairfadel112]

That would be one of the greatest conversations in history

[@fuadarif4056]

That will be great 👍🏻

[@glennhands4085]

This is how to learn, discuss, and respect each religion. So much respect and love for these two special people

[@vzeddkvzeddk2162]

I love how both discuss on a purely intellectual level without trying to convince anyone. Sadly this is a rare phenomenon today. I'm sick and tired of those slaves to ideology in the media who are unable to have this kind of interaction at all.

[@ARStudios2000]

I am with you on that

[@Ali-ro2vv117]

Very true. This podcast is a true example of impartial and objective theological discourse.

[@saeedwho]

Petition for Shaykh Hamza Yusuf next pls

[@Hassan12340]

I swear! I was so excited when I saw the announcement and been waiting since! Was supposed to happen IN AUGUST!!! Not sure what happened! It would be SUCH an wonderful and HONEST conversation

[@islamrewards2860]

Not sure why this has not happened

[@asiakhan5314]

@@poshvibes4021 yes I love Peterson but this is so bias…

[@Hassan12340]

@@poshvibes4021 i dont believe its intentional. I believe him to be Sincere in his acquisition of knowledge and truth!! There’s just a lot more nonsense out here than truth. Eventually I believe he will get Sheikh Hamza, or even Nouman Ali khan (Quran expert) or sheikh Dr. Yasir Qadhi. I believe especially sheikh hamza and sheikh Yasir would be a welcomed conversation!!

[@abdallahhabib4676]

Love your curiosity regarding Islam. May Allah bless you with Islam and please Hamza yusuf next

[@Cjash45]

Great stuff. As a lifelong Catholic who doesn't know a whole lot about Islam or the Middle East I would love to hear from more Muslims of varying perspectives.

[@bilalinsydney]

Kind of ignorant you don't know anything about the Middle East, you do know that Jesus was from there (also he wasn't white).

[@michellejohnsen912]

@@bilalinsydney he didn't say that he didn't know anything. He said he doesn't know alot. That's called humility. Being rude is not productive and is not contributing anything of value.

[@bilalinsydney]

@@Tom-sd9jb I apologise, maybe I saw it the wrong way. I’m not religious but I’d assume that Christian, Jews and Muslims would know a little bit about each other as they’re all Abrahamic faiths.

[@bilalinsydney]

@@Tom-sd9jb I owe an apology. Thank you my friend, I think I needed that.

[@iloveMYMOM1915]

I think you should do your own research yourself before having a conversation with a muslim. Trust me, I speak from experiance.

[@aslanersoy8970]

Mr Peterson is like someone trying to catch up with his own intellect, great respect from Azerbaijan 🙏

[@ildirimardahalibarani5434]

Bizimkilerden Jordan Petersona qulaq asan olmağı meni çox sevindirir. Açıqcası tek olduğumu düşünürdüm.

[@aslanersoy8970]

@@ildirimardahalibarani5434 Mən Güney Azərbaycanlıyam qardaş, Təbrizdən

[@ildirimardahalibarani5434]

@@aslanersoy8970 sen de bizden birisende

[@aslanersoy8970]

@@ildirimardahalibarani5434 elədir, Azərbaycan Anadır biz ona bala ❤️🇦🇿❤️

[@OrkhanHuseynli21]

Azərbaycanlı qardaşlarıma Bakıdan salamlar! Sizi burada görmək çox gözəldir!

[@abcdef9949]

Quranic verse Mustafa was referring to----"Those who listen to the Word and then follow the best it contains, are the ones who have been guided by God, and are men of wisdom."

[@Ging_10]

Thats an awesome verse!

[@Rabmac1UK]

I have been more educated about Religion by this discussion than I have ever been in all my lifetime. Thank you both for opening my eyes.

[@rustinholliday2252]

You would learn more about all religion by ignoring it.

[@alcapone3212]

@@rustinholliday2252 not true

[@TheTariqibnziyad]

@@rustinholliday2252 hahhaha good one

[@OddlySatisfying]

This conversation can only be superseded by that between JBP & Hamza Yusuf, the well-versed intellectual in Eastern & Western traditions. Looking forward to it! Hamza Yusuf is the scholar to listen to.

[@Matrix2220]

did they record it? when it will be on the channel? I'm only aware that JP and Mohamed Hijab had a podcast and it will be uploaded 13 Dec. 2021

[@noahuploads4447]

Nope; Hamza Yusuf has knowledge, but Akyol surpasses him especially in terms of his understanding of the current politico-religious circumstance of the Muslim world through his political science background as well as the historical evolution of Islamic civilisation; he also has a lot of depth in terms of his knowledge on the relationship between the Bible and the Quran. Hamza knows a lot, but to me Akyol has more coherence. The main difference though is that one is traditional and the other liberal.

[@Al-Ghazali]

@@noahuploads4447 The end of your comment just answers why JP should have had Hamza instead, aren't liberal muslims already well represented all over media? the only ones who are talked about a lot and never given the chance to talk about themselves are traditional muslims and they make up the majority of muslims around the world.

[@metekhan9412]

@@Al-Ghazali traditional muslims oppose everything Mustafa Akyol explained here,Historical Context,Seperation of Church and State,Secularism,State of world,ideology,why would they deserve the right to be represented when they are the root of the problem Mustafa Akyol explained through the whole video?

[@plung3r]

I prefer Abdal Hakim Murad (Timothy Winter)

[@umehanibokhari1001]

The world at large needs so badly to hear this. Thank you so much, both of you, for doing this.

[@fatimahalhaddad1302]

If you want to understand more about the history, context and interpratation of the messages in the quran, i would strongly suggest to have a discussion with nouman ali khan. He's really great at articulating and explaning the word of God in a way you can never imagine but still can process with your mind.

[@terrafinlay2615]

I second that! NOUMAN NEXT PLEASE!!!!

[@terrafinlay2615]

Then Mufti Menk Then Omar Suleiman.

[@kurtisbartholomew2561]

I smile everytime Jordan is thinking so deeply that his face contorts and his eyes close. It is a reflection of his honest intent to understand. Thank you both for this discussion.

[@armandohenriqueramosminucc4749]

Please, have Dr.Thomas Sowell on the podcast before is too late for us all.

[@MattTheBrown]

This is my greatest wish.

[@larryjake7783]

I would love to see Peterson and Thomas Sowell have a conversation. Both are my non-relative role models

[@cameron9292]

From my understanding, Thomas Sowell is a free-market economist the likes of Milton Freidman right? I'm not sure what continuity there would be between Sowell and Peterson to work off one another

[@goldfishi5776]

An exceptional idea for an exceptional man.

[@craigscott2315]

@@cameron9292 they have both studied sociology. Economic and psychological perspectives. It would be interesting...

[@themanc8874]

Surely one of the most eye opening conversations I listened to from a muslim scholar presenting his views about religion from a critical perspective. Articulating the unsaid in the islamic society where people are ill-advised about their own religion. Jordan peterson is also a wonderful person. He is so good at asking the right kind of questions and reasoning and sometimes contradicting with his guests. What I also loved about peterson is when he asked his guest at the end of it is possible to meet him. There is so much humility in this which I respect. This is by far the best episode of Jorden Peterson with a muslim scholar, way better than the one he did with Mohamed Hidjab who is also a respective person. Thank you for the opportunity to listen to you.

[@FaridahHameed]

Fantastic discussion - as a Malaysian, I was horrified by the way Mustafa Akyol was treated by the religious police in my country. Thank you JP and MA for this illuminating discussion and pls do a Part 2 😃🙏🏾

[@donndaus]

malaysia here too hehe

[@diahiskandarbinmohamadjani7674]

Once I read about that episod in the internet, I immediately got fascinated about his books. I finished reading 2 of his books, and I m in the middle of reading the 3rd one. The book about Jesus the prophet of Islam is so good. I will reread it some time in future.

[@ryanreynolds8251]

I'm a 220lb former college football player and disabled vet, and I gotta say I never thought the guy I'd draw the most inspiration from would be a nerdy, physically meek professor from Canada, BUT Dr Peterson you are the bravest most courageous man I know for what you're doing. You may not be dodging bullets overseas like many of my buddies have, but it's a different kind of courage and just as important

[@CompleteTheTurn]

@@phasespace4700 such a distasteful comment…

[@CompleteTheTurn]

@@phasespace4700 I never claimed he was courageous. Looks like your anger is so blinding you’re having trouble projecting your rhetoric correctly.

[@CompleteTheTurn]

@@phasespace4700 I would be careful to dismiss him that easily. His book 12 rules for life helped turn things around for me and for a handful of people I know. He may not be your cup of tea, but he’s certainly done a lot of good.

[@ryanreynolds8251]

@@phasespace4700 risking his career, reputation and family's well being to spread the truth even in the midst of countless death threats and serious health concerns...the guy's a modern day saint, and yes he is courageous.

[@ryanreynolds8251]

@@phasespace4700 since he "bragged about it in print" provide the link But you won't, bc you people never provide any proof for the BS that comes outta your mouth

[@dominikvdovski996]

Jews, Christians, Muslims commenting here, all appreciating two wise men who differ in details, but are devoted to find the Truth. It's fascinating to me how great religions share the same core of loving God and people. As a Christian I was astonished by John Paul's 2nd idea of arranging meeting of leaders of great religions to try and find what we all have in common, on what we should build our coexistence. May God bless people of good will, no matter what their religion is. Peace be with you all!

[@angcil88]

There's one thing that they have in common : they are not liberal secular and should not bow down to liberal & secular moral values.

[@Gloop_Anderson]

The big values are pretty obvious but I'd love to see talks among leaders.

[@jared2244]

After all is said and done there has to be more done than said.

[@AruzOverrider_a-ruse]

This was an unbelievable conversation. For the first time I saw Light in Jordan's Eyes when having a conversation about Islam. Thank you so much Mr. Akyol for presenting Islam in such light. I've not seen anyone represent Islam as better than you.

[@ht5095]

This is one of the best JBP interviews so far ! Thank you both for an excellent elevating discussion 🙏🏼

[@MuhammadIrfan-iu2ty]

Well that was foking deep man @1:19:50

[@LivingBGLegend]

Going to spend my evening after I get out of work listening to this one while I do my wood working hobby tonight. I think the two will go together well. Thank you JP! Edit- I am a Christian and look forward to listening and understanding the Muslim point of view. In fact I’ve started studying the Quran a little bit to put perspective on my own faith. May God bless you all regardless of who God is to you.

[@TheTribalistic]

Watch Dr Jeffery Lang, who is an American professor talking about how he felt like when he first read the Quran

[@abdirhmanwarsama5964]

inshallah you found your answers

[@jimkoriorpani6651]

Don't call yourself Christian..... If u have doubt on jesus then you are not a Christian....who leave Christianity those people who have no relationship with Jesus

[@LivingBGLegend]

@@jimkoriorpani6651 who said I have doubt about Jesus and who are you to tell people of faith what they can or can’t say? Nothing worse than self righteous ‘religious people’ thinking they are somehow better believers or better people than anyone else

[@LivingBGLegend]

@@pokerthejoker2164 exactly, ignorance is not the answer. I am learning otherwise I wouldn’t have a leg to stand on on the matter

[@lowe7372]

Of all the Muslims I'd like to see interviewed by Dr.Jordan Peterson is Dr. Tim Winters, also known as Sheikh Abdul Hakim Murad, Oh boy what a conversation it will be!, Dr.Jordan, can you try bringing him on your show? Very much appreciated! thank you!

[@omarfawzy1657]

Totally agree

[@besttimephuket3407]

Just as he was supposed to do with Mohammed Hijab

[@abdelyaminekamel7113]

I'm in for that, but Peterson only brings islamophobes and apologetics and never a real intellectual traditionalist Muslim the likes of muhamed jihab who he canceled like two days ago Abdul hakim murad is a dime the way he articulates is beautiful. I think that Peterson is just scared of bringing people who can easily make him look incompetent.

[@alexitoussaint2777]

@@abdelyaminekamel7113 You said he only invites islamophobes how can that be if the man he interviewed here is an ardent support of Islam?

[@ic.xc.]

@@abdelyaminekamel7113 I've seen Mohammed Hijab and his entourage at speakers corner. Vile behaviour and not the type of "intellectual" you wanna bring on who shouts and curses on streams sitting in his car.

[@PayameWatan]

Dr J. Petersson is undoubtedly a treasure. He has helped me a lot to identify and overcome my ignorance. May you stay blessed JBP

[@abdo22022]

Very grateful for the existence of conversations like this one.

[@adikilla]

Seeing and hearing this conversation has just made the world so much better place in my eyes - you have no idea. I am so proud and thankful to both of you...MY BROTHERS!

[@hannesRSA]

I'm just thankful that the tribal groups are shrinking. Soon (but not in my lifetime) "my brothers" will refer to humanity instead of cults.

[@elektrotehnik94]

@@hannesRSA "Soon (but not in my lifetime) "my brothers" will refer to humanity instead of cults." I believe at least most nominations of Christianity, Buddhism & Hinduism refer to everybody as their brothers. At least that is how I & many popular religious leaders seemed to believe it is in each of these religions, once I fully engrossed myself (learned the context & practised their way of seeking the Divine) in their spiritual teachings.

[@bagh98]

@@elektrotehnik94 as does Islam. Brothers in faith as well brothers in humanity.

[@booll5571]

@@elektrotehnik94 I’m sorry but Christianity doesn’t share a lot (if anything) with Buddhism & Hinduism, you can even start with the basic and most important thing: Christianity is monotheistic religion

[@elektrotehnik94]

@@booll5571 Study them yourself, in depth, & see for yourself. Don't read about them, experience them, delve deep into meditations & then speak from experience what you've found there

[@rdbeisi]

As a Muslim viewer of Dr. Peterson, loved this interview. All my respect for Dr. Aykol's knowledge! For more on Islam, I respectfully ask that Dr. Peterson consider interviewing Dr. Jeffrey Lang next, please! 🙏

[@mubarkaazam9244]

Dr. Jeffrey Lang and JP would be an unbelievable conversation. 👍🏼👍🏼

[@rdbeisi]

@@mubarkaazam9244 Allahummah Aameen🙏

[@rahimagrace5916]

That would be wonderful!

[@abdelhaditazi8367]

This needs way more likes to hopefully be seen by Doctor Peterson!! I would love to hear their discussion

[@rdbeisi]

@@abdelhaditazi8367 Allah (swt) already saw it. And, Allah's the best of planners 🙏

[@ghadabaazim2309]

As an Arab Muslim who's constantly learning so much from Jordan Peterson, his views on Islam never settled well with me due to their lack of knowledge, which he always states. I'm beyond happy this interview happened for both shedding light on Islam to Jordan Peterson and the western world, and for motivating me to understand my religion better. When Mustafa Akyol talked about why he's doing this and how there are many Muslims who're truly faithful but disturbed from both how the Muslim world is acting and how the western media misudges us, and how they need a way to move forward while being in peace with their and other's religion, I felt like he was talking to me. I'm a Saudi Muslim and I spent a fair amount of time trying to unlearn the false Islam I've been taught in school and fleshing what I've learned down to what really made sense to me as the true Islam in the Quran, I stopped there out of mental exhaustion tbh although I never stopped loving my religion. Hearing Mustafa Akyol talk is like a wake up call to learn more about my religion. As a Saudi Muslim who's temporarily living in he west, I always feel like I'm being forced to be something way too hard in comparison to other ethnicities and religions, wether it's from the western world or Saudi world, in the west where I am rn the rasicm I get for being Saudi AND Muslim is too real, and it infurates me because it always comes from a place of superiority and false information (applies to Jordan's views on Saudi too), and back in the Muslim world I struggle with being intellectually independent especially when it comes to religion. Now I'm realizing that this affected my intention behind me previously trying to understand religion independently, I might've tried to understand it solely to prove the westrens wrong and to prove conservative extremist Muslims wrong. I will definitely do better to learn more about my religion for myself and to be more at peace with my beliefs.

[@darkkid2270]

Islam is evil

[@ghadabaazim2309]

@@darkkid2270 k

[@KICLEI_CANADA]

I would love to see a series of conversations that delve into statement or question in this interview. Having these two great intellects discuss this publicly for us is nothing but beneficial for the world.

[@SIZLIANO]

Bringing a real intellectual unapologetic Muslim on the pod would be much appreciated.

[@ic.xc.]

What is a real unapologetic Muslim?

[@justsomeguywithoutamustang6436]

@@ic.xc. a Muslim who's not unapologetic

[@renatojohnsson5548]

I think it's coming. He said he's interviewing 2 islamic scholar one more liberal than the other

[@hassanbadrek2726]

I would prefer he brings Daniel haqiqatjou

[@omarfawzy1657]

exactly!

[@bagh98]

Despite being a traditionalist Muslim (and not of the reformist persuasion as typically understood as I think it's more return to the original message rather than reform) I actually quite liked this discussion. I thought Akyol did a very good job of getting a lot key messages across from the Muslim viewpoints and Peterson did a very good job of probing without indenting. Good work and thank you to both. Having said that I think a discussion with someone like Shaykh Hamza Yusuf is long overdue. He's a true western Muslim intellectual who is a traditionalist in a refreshing sense - loyal to the Islamic origin but at the same time allows for evolution in his thoughts to an appropriate extent without having to go outside the Islamic framework. Best of both worlds if I may say so!

[@rogersmith6813]

Jordan Peterson literally cancelled on Mohammed Hijab 3 times over who is a debater and traditionalist muslim

[@Tazinio01]

100% agree with the discussion with Shaykh Hamza Yusuf.

[@titan7672]

@@rogersmith6813 because Mohamad hijab is a speaker but not an actual learned person he is what we call the internet sheikh, also he is very ignorant and rude

[@ik1033]

@@titan7672 well Mohammed Hijab is different in different settings. And if the fear was his attitude or him being rude, then he shouldn’t have scheduled the interview at all to begin with. Neither Hijab nor Peterson are new to the world of KZbin and public speaking. Having said that I enjoy both of their content A LOT !

[@sweeneyadair2952]

@@ik1033 There would be far more value in Hijab talking with Akyol. In lite of this conversation, it's clear MH would be out of his depth. Without a doubt his closeted clout chasing/if not his Dawah gymnastics, would be more exposed as a weakness in any argument. His oft combobulation and over use of academic language would divorce him further from the contemporary academic debate he clearly would like to be engrd in. While he is seeking a level of education that would give him academic presence, he is still a long way away from a constructive Peterson engagement. He’d do better talking to Akyol.

[@sulista-consulting]

Love and respect from Czechia. I am Roman Catholic and some of my great friends are pious Muslims. As long as we pick the positive out of our religions and they help us to be better human beings, it's all good!

[@seaside9670]

One is right and the other is wrong. Mohammed was a child molester. Jesus was sinless. You decide who is right

[@caesart2508]

I’m so blessed that I came through those videos and I can’t explain how Grateful I’m. Thank you both and we need more great people like you two to help us understand the similarity in our religions. Much love from Muslim brother to Humanity.

[@themkhgha]

I am a Muslim and I LOVE JORDAN PETERSON I have read his books and listened to his talks he is a beautiful human that means well and wants to help everyone. Thank you sir I have a lot of respect for you.

[@Shadowed007]

@@bertrandrussell894 can be said same about Christianity too. Burn in hell for eternity not following it. So can't point the fingers at the others when one is following something similar.

[@themkhgha]

@@bertrandrussell894 God is the only one that can decide. I am a afraid a shallow interpretation of the Quran would only yield the understanding you currently have. You do your part of being a good human and god will do his. This man is taking on the world with his work and challenging the current system and yet we are stuck trying to decide his faith.

[@hamidhassou5551]

watch Mohammad Hijab

[@sz.1up541]

@@bertrandrussell894 no one knows where anyone is going but god

[@Haroon38931]

@@bertrandrussell894 If you reject that there is a creator because you believe there is no proof of his existence. I ask you to bring forth proof that the Universe was created from nothing. If you are unable to do so, which you will be, and still hold onto your beliefs you will be a hypocrite.

[@SybaAdventure]

Thank you for this beautiful conversation, sir! I'm 19, and I have been watching your lectures for years and I have been looking forward for a discussion on Islam. You did not disappoint. As a Muslim, I've always found that your ideas resonated extremely well with my upbringing, and that Islam, Christianity and Judaism are far more alike than different. I really think you both are doing the world a great favour with these conversations. I definitely will be sharing this with my friends.

[@fs5775]

mashallah, I agree

[@leebarry5686]

dr. Mustapha's effort for reform and enhancing freedom is very much appreciated, wonderful.

[@art-o-cart5166]

Thank you this helped me alot. I use to have alot of prejudice against Islam and even cursed out an Islamic coworker years ago. It wasn't until about I turned 20 did I see my folly and began to change. Part of which is due to Dr. Peterson.

[@umehanibokhari1001]

Share this talk with your friends :)

[@MAROCK187]

Did you apologize for your actions? Seeing something wrong is no problem acting afterwards right on it is a hole different ballgame we’re you take it to the next level. There is off course no right or wrong in this because we should be all loving creatures on the same world.

[@art-o-cart5166]

@@MAROCK187 about a year ago I saw the former co-worker in public and apologized.

[@MAROCK187]

@@art-o-cart5166 You have a good heart and a right mind for doing so. You have my respect. There not a lot of people who would do that. That makes you a leader.

[@sadeksama5057]

Mainstream media is a bitch

[@hamza5106]

Just a correction at: 1:18:00 Professor Peterson says the Flood comes after the Tower of Babel, in the Bible the Flood happens before the Tower of Babel story. Please thumbs up so others can see, thanks

[@sonofode902]

He made mistake. It happens.

[@hamza5106]

@@sonofode902 Indeed, I have made plenty

[@DanielSLumsden]

He said the same thing in a debate It threw me a little. I'm sure he knows though.

[@shirwanomer4564]

No, he didn’t made any mistake there. He knows perfectly well the Flood comes first, and then the narration of the Tower of Bible. But the “Tower of Bible” can be used a metaphorically, just as professor Peterson did. He used the term metaphorically, when a civilisation tends to think that it has reached the pinnacle of perfection, The Tower of Bible, then the Flood comes and everything disintegrates!

[@mansiondave23]

He’s speaking in a psychological assessment of the result. He says it many times throughout videos- “after the collapse the the tower, the people are scattered in a ‘flood’ of chaos” Not to be mistaken for the great flood; in which you are correct, came long before hand in the Bible.

[@refrefwgwgwegew]

Hamza Yusuf and Dr. Peterson in one conversation could give us the most meaningful podcast. Best of both worlds. Anyone who agrees?

[@thebeatnumber]

There's nothing "best" about the islamic world. Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Egypt etc keep proving what a shit storm Islam is.

[@refrefwgwgwegew]

@@thebeatnumber I am speaking about the Intellectual world. Any idea what role the west played in Afghanistan or Egypt? Do your research, you seem ignorant and emotional. Best.

[@kdshak4904]

@@refrefwgwgwegew Human Intellect changes and gets updated on frequent basis. How do you update intellect? By challenging thoughts and books written 600 years ago with newer thoughts. With due respect, Hamza Yusuf has not done so. 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@kdshak4904]

@@thebeatnumber Please listen to the discussion in this video. Not a good idea to mouth off the views of fundamentalists by claiming Islam is bad or Christianity is terrible. 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@refrefwgwgwegew]

@@kdshak4904 human intellect changes by adding new floors to our understanding of the world. Does not mean previous books or wisdom is unnecessary. You should read Nitzsche, collective ideas from the past are here today. Hamza Yusuf would be able to deminish ignorance of people like you.

[@alaarhouma836]

What a wonderful meeting guys! i think i never grabbed my brain so hard to understand and listen which shows how hungry I was to learn. Kudos to both of you

[@miladmoradi5574]

This guy is a real intellectual when it comes to his analysis on liberalism and Islam, he’s definitely knowledgeable. Please have him on your podcast again, I really enjoyed it.

[@DemetriPanici]

*”You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.” - Marcus Aurelius*

[@muhammadaswanbinawang5697]

This is a good direction, Dr. Peterson! However a more succinct and equally verbose and well read Muslim scholar that Peterson should invite is with Hamza Yusuf from Zaytuna College in the USA and Timothy Winters (Abdul Hakim Murad) from Cambridge. I heard last August or so there is a cancelled talk with Hamza Yusuf due to Dr Peterson sudden relapse, but please make it happen in the future! Thank you again from Malaysia, your ideas and lectures helped me a lot through the last few years.

[@vicmubarok]

Relapse?

[@criterion9801]

I absolutely agree. There is no better person to have than Hamza Yusuf Hanson.

[@oDazzleRazzle]

Can you please elaborate on this “relapse” instead of making such a claim without any more details?

[@hannesRSA]

Malaysia seems to be regressing.

[@strangeair3917]

@@oDazzleRazzle I think what he means based on a tweet from jordan peterson I saw posted here on youtube is that he is still struggling with his health.

[@johnward5102]

'Merely letting people speak but in a welcoming way.....can be intensely healing' What a wonderful discussion (both of you); and may God prosper Mu'tazilism.

[@AhmedHassan-eu3zm]

This was a great talk!! As a Muslim who's very open-minded, I loved a few things with what Mustafa Akyol had to say. I personally don't agree with a lot of points he had made, especially ones that he could (in my opinion) not find a proper answer to when JBP asked him, so I'm looking forward to another Muslim or advocate of Islam. In all honesty, I just want JBP to gain proper knowledge of Islam, because this man's wisdom and virtue is so very close to what God wants in all of us I presume.

[@ssully1069]

On December 13th the video with Mohammed Hijab is coming out. That will be a good one

[@kisahnalahnpoveda9068]

That's what I was thinking aswell, M.Akyol is a good moderate and door opener for deeper discussions in the future.

[@trinitymatrix9719]

He already found the truth in Lord Jesus Christ. I invite you as well out of the darkness and illusion of islam and into the light of our Lord Jesus Christ. Ameeem.

[@AhmedHassan-eu3zm]

@@kisahnalahnpoveda9068 He's definitely a scholar, I just don't think for the texts of the Quran. There were so many questions Jordan asked and I was like, "ok this should be easy." and Akyol was stuttering lmaooo. But inshallah I'd love to see another good talk or even better one in the future!

[@kisahnalahnpoveda9068]

@@AhmedHassan-eu3zm yes inshallah brother

[@chabelic1684]

Love how many times Jordan quotes the Bible to make sense of an idea he is saying. God is working on this man, I think we can all see it. Amazing conversation between two great men.

[@DW_Kiwi]

@@safyaniqbal2 Read the Christian Bible. The Gospel of John. Islam accepts Jesus as a Prophet but does not listen to what He actually says of Himself. Do not accept Him as a Prophet. He is either a Madman or He is, as He said, The Son of God!!

[@chabelic1684]

@@DW_Kiwi Amen 🙏🏻

[@chabelic1684]

@@safyaniqbal2 Yes our major difference is the nature of Jesus. It’s been for centuries, I just recommend you and anyone that doesn’t know what Jesus says about himself to go to the Gospels, especially John like David here in the comments mentions. Have an amazing day, and God bless.

[@theoriginalstoney]

@@safyaniqbal2 this is a dangerous assumption that is convenient for Islam, but if you tried to know Christianity, you would see the folly of it. It is telling that Islam “accounts” for Jesus, while The Bible has no need to account for other faiths. Being open to consider the other faith as it is - not as you want it to be - is the basis of building understanding and reaching forward together to find the truth. It would be stupid for Christians to do the same to Islam. Let’s come together as truth seekers, and openly discuss and try to understand each other as we are first...

[@doublethebenjamin8185]

@@safyaniqbal2 read the Christian bible, specifically the gospel of John. Jesus is either God, madman, or a liar.

[@popo8878]

As a Muslim fan of yours, I request that you bring Muhammad hijab or Hamza Tzortzis on the podcast. Mustafa Akyol only represent a very small amount of Muslims.

[@sophiafilms8072]

They Are from the devil

[@Dr.KhizarShabir-dl1ho]

Mustafa Oykol is Insignificant. Most Muslims do not even know who he is.

[@mustafaplays8918]

I think brother Mustafa did good to start a discussion. Hamza Yusuf also would be great. You would be surprised that it’s not a small people who follow hamza Yusuf. Salam.

[@joeyouyang]

you mean the guy who threatened ex muslims and make sexually deviant comments at their wives?

[@killharryclinton9312]

You're a fraud, you don't even know who Jordan B Peterson is.

[@eminezairi5177]

this conversation is on a very high level. High respect to you two.👏🏼👏🏼

[@amiraliashrafkashani5837]

I would love to see another conversation with this gentleman. This was fascinating.

[@flamingrobin5957]

1 Corinthians 1: 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

[@cmbaz1140]

thank you both for this revealing and insightful exploration of abrahams path. sadly i can see in the comments that many people seem to have watched without listening... how those refusing to listen to their fellow humans can ever hope to understand even a fraction of the words of god is beyond me.

[@SaltBhj]

I love how intently Professor Petersons listens, I’ll work on myself to be like that.

[@Incandescence555]

God, how much better would things be if we all implemented such rigorous, flowing and empathic listening?

[@metinmetin1246]

I appreciated the conversation. Thanks to JBP and Mustafa Akyol. There are several issues I am having with Mustafa Akyols position. Too many Muslim thinkers, who have good intentions in "modernizing" Islam or islamic society are trying to adapt the western model of secularization and liberalism onto Islam and the islamic countries. This is problematic, since the western models are grounded in western history, their religious wars and their culture. They cannot be simply adapted or adjusted. It is not possible and provenly prone to failure to try to adapt these values onto Islam or the islamic world. It is a better and more effective idea to "modernize" Islam or the islamic society according to their own culture, history and political landscape. Muslim thinkers need to be independent and not look towards the west and try to copycat. It will fail as it has failed before. Another issue I am having is the term Judeo-Christian or, even worse Judeo-Christian-Islamic. There is no such thing and this is historically inaccurate. Especially in Europe, for almost all its Christian history there was no place for Jews, jewish culture or jewish people. So there was no Judeo-Christian tradition historically. This is a newly coined term to include Judaism and Jews among Europeans and claim their culture as their own, which is inaccurate and not true. If anything, Jewish culture and religion had a higher impact and influence in islamic countries than in Europe historically. Very interesting conversation and glad I could be part of it by listening :)

[@LevisH21]

well, I'm from Europe and you are correct. European history has always been connected with Christianity, not Judaism. Jews and Judaism have never played a big role in the history of Europe before WW2 and Nazi Germany. maybe only that time when the Catholic Spain kicked out all Jews and these Jews went to the Ottoman Empire. that's it.

[@bilaldemir8712]

Totally agree

[@Josh-hp2gg]

I'm not fully aware of the Jewish impact in European history but when I, personally, reference the term Judio-Christain, I am referring to the Judeo-Christian ideals and messages in the religion. This is where Judeo-Christian Islamic is added in the sense that there are some ideas and messages that are shared with all three. Now on the topic of culture, I'm not sure that it is what people are referring to when they state it but I could be mistaken.

[@samwise4589]

Separation of religion and state is not a western creation.

[@metinmetin1246]

@@samwise4589 Interesting point. However in reality there is nothing like "separation" of state and religion. Historically, there is the superiority of state and the subordination, and in some cases suppresion of religion, which is then described as "separation" of state and religion. And that form is most certainly created by the west. Additionally, exceptions in history do not invalidate the reality today. The prevalence of the ideology called "Separation of church and state" has been created and then exported by the west and has today become a global phenomenon. Reality shows us however that this concept does not work in some cultures outside, which was my previous point, about islamic countries and their potential reformation, modernization or reorganization whatever you might want to call it.

[@jamesdenis8058]

I’m so impressed with Akyol. What an intelligent, and well orientated treasure this guy seems to be.

[@nomoregames8103]

All he saying are lies that's what western muslim do name me one thing he said is truth about islam , 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ go read Quran and hadith and then back here and compare it with this conversation

[@aqe7914]

He is rooted in tradition very much so, i wish he didnt use words like modernist etc, coexistence is at the root of islam, corcumstances may bury it but we have to be polishing in retrieveing it

[@mehakkhan9378]

Honestly we all NEED a Sheikh Hamza Yusuf and Dr. Peterson podcast

[@eyupensartopkaya3888]

inlight us with what was missing from Mustafa Akyol's points..try to learn to listen without prejudice..

[@Kay-gw6vw]

@@eyupensartopkaya3888 nothing was missing. It was a beautiful conversation.

[@KRAK107]

@@eyupensartopkaya3888 sheikh Hamza Yusuf is of a different caliber my friend.

[@YK-op8vv]

Hamza Yusuf is a heretic and deviant whom believes in and propagates polytheism, shirk and pagan practises, and allows for many other things which directly oppose Islam, the quran and sunnah, so why would anyone want him on? Is is not better to have orthodox traditionalist muslims who represent the majority of muslims globally i.e. mohammed hijab

[@Kay-gw6vw]

@@YK-op8vv subhanallah. Seek forgiveness, because if you are wrong in what you say you could potentially fall out of the fold of Islam.

[@PsychedelicFootball]

This was one of the most beautiful discussion I have had the pleasure of listening to. Thank you Dr Peterson. Peace and blessings of God upon you.

[@ju87stukadivebomber87]

BUT WHICH ONE?! no really I'm confused.

[@israfilangel8062]

This person Akyol is a heretic, Peterson should invite traditional muslims who have studied islam deeply!

[@almasinanovic6026]

@@israfilangel8062 which parts of what he said specifically do you disagree with? And which things he said here point out to him being a heretic?

[@israfilangel8062]

@@almasinanovic6026Salam, Well many things for example he undermines the hadith by rejecting the abrogating & abrogation he calls it a theory because he thought those verses were abrogated according to jurisprudence while in fact they weren't they just have to do with different context, the abrogated verses has three types of abrogation, there's verses that are abrogated by text which mean they're not found in the Qur'an anymore but their rulings is still applicable and so on and vise versa there's verses in the Qur'an that are verbally abrogated meaning their rulings is not applicable anymore although they are in the Qur'an present. and he also disregards fiqh (jurisprudence) which is based on hadith and Qur'an the central sources in islam and he misinterprets the Qur'anic verses according to his own entitled opinion instead of the tafsir from the 'ijma' consensus prominent classical and traditional muslim senior scholars and linguits! He is just a maturidi sympathizer reformist liberal who wants to change people's minds with his own liberalised version of islam! Thus he is a heretic by holding different opinions that opposes the majority traditional muslim consensus. Especially trying to separate islam which is the way of life established by Allah the creator he tries to separate it from the state! And he knows that he is a heretic that's why he kept on mentioning the term "heretics" many times on this video to protect his agenda.

[@almasinanovic6026]

@@israfilangel8062 heretic is a strong word, and you know it can come right back at ya. Why not just respectfully disagree and make your points clear without labeling anyone a heretic? For example, cite what he said in this video and explain why you disagree and what you consider to be correct. For example, I have an issue with him speaking more about what is similar and compatible between Islam and liberalism, instead of speaking about what Islam really is and what it really teaches - from the perspective of Islam, and not through the lens of liberalism. Also, there is an issue with the term Judeo-Christian tradition, which if you look into it, only came to be used recently and it makes no sense at all, and especially it makes no sense adding Islam to that term. He is pushing for acceptance of Islam on the same terms Judaism was falsely accepted into European racist universe. Term Judeo-Christian tradition is nowadays used for islamophobic purposes, for exclusion and othering of the Muslims, but it is a term even originally formed on racial basis, so we should abandon it altogether and not support it by trying to fit Islam and Muslims in it. I as a Muslim don't want to have a destiny of European Christians and Jews, with their mostly empty churches and synagogues, I want to stay true to my faith and if we are talking about revising some of our traditions, I find it completely fine and also necessary, as long as it is authentic and based on evidence and our own methodologies that are based in Qur'an and the Sunnah, not based on what came as whims of certain humans whatever faith or no faith they had. For me, reforming Islam has more to do with actually explaining to Muslims what Islam really is, and always going back to its foundations and rereading our texts over and over again with new perspectives that open to us and maybe correcting our understanding of certain aspects. But never ever try to abrogate a single verse in Qur'an based on our own "lived experience" etc.

[@ahmedbenkhemais1913]

To be honest this video helped me understand the Islamic way from another perspective so thank you both (the respect and civility in this dialog is priceless)

[@xand2870]

Did you think islam came with variations?

[@jeremyking9094]

This conversation was so touching. Thank you both.

[@SG-dw8jh]

One of the most fascinating direct conversations between God and a human in the Quran is God’s conversation with Jesus (PBUH). The amount of wisdom and respect within that conversation is truly fascinating.

[@Seekthetruth3000]

Mohammad and others made it all up.

[@Logia1978]

@@Seekthetruth3000 lol.... And you made up a lie here, prove me wrong...

[@SG-dw8jh]

@@Seekthetruth3000 Seek The Truth 1 time not 3000.

[@emmousa8353]

As a Muslim ( with Salafi leaning) I find this discussion rich . I am so disappointed with the brothers throwing insult at Mustafa. He did a very great job dispelling some of JPs misconception about Islam!. If u have the mind of crushing dis person, defeating this, forget about this,; and u have a long way to go It's soo painful someone saying we don't know Mustafa as Muslim so he can't talk for us. This is so barbaric. If only those people will listen; it's the totalitarianism tendency discussed herein. Discussion like dis is not about persuading dis guy to this; it's about finding common grounds amidst our differences. I respect MH ( a big fan) and his Daawah ( May Allah bless him), but he will find a hard time on JPs podcast. He may not even do to essence of things in a dispassionate way like this brother. Lastly; we are all seekers of truth and God is the ultimate judge; May Allah forgive us for our ignorance for we know nothing.

[@strodo7013]

Very well said. I agree with you completely. We are here to learn from each other not win some contest.

[@DutchAlps911]

Agreed!!

[@mrnomad1737]

@ Emmousa. The ghair muqalid generally did not contribute much to Islamic sciences apart from obsessing over some reading of external part. It is because the salafist movement has never been discursive and born out of highly tribal set up from najd. Driven by zeal (what they deemed to be absolute) flourished in cementing legitimacy of KSA but stifled and disturbed from within the organic growth as has been the case for centuries.

[@thisisit4666]

As a Saudi, I hate being judged as an individual under the logic that I, as a Saudi am being oppressed by the Saudi government and yet, people are quick to judge us and assume that we agree with government. Blows my mind.

[@naisa9705]

Can you please explain to me what is happening? I saw in media and even islamic media they are talking a lot about the corruption of Saudi because of concert, or something like that. It confused me.

[@ahmadkhader1901]

@@naisa9705 simple answer "politics & foregin powers(Western)"

[@Storm-zc6ji]

@@ahmadkhader1901 corruption as a result of western powers? Should take responsibility for own acts.

[@ahmadkhader1901]

@@Storm-zc6ji You can't go against western power that has upper hand on you, so you're(Saudi govern) forced to follow what those Western power tells you to do You might didn't understand what's the problem happening in Saudi Arabia The problem as what he has said that Saudi starting to combine sharia with modern Western rules That's where corruption is. Sharia it self is enough to make law and balanced justice that even ruler him self can't reflect against (ruler and citizens forced to follow law) But when you add modern Western rules without enough calculations, that will end up effecting sharia balance also that will lead up into corrupted laws that destroys the country. Edit: i might misunderstanding ur point if you mean western power should take responsibility for thier corruption, i agree with you but they unfortunately won't. Western media will keep calling us terrorist, and thier government will kill, steal, destroy countries in name of saving it.

[@naisa9705]

@@ahmadkhader1901 are you saudi arabian? I think most of ppl don't really understand what it means to be a modern. I'm learning philosophy and I know exactly that the concept of modernism is against islam. If they continue to liberalize Saudi, I fear the day the nation will be destroyed.

[@mohamedamir5288]

Two very powerful intellectual discussed what matters to all human today which is what do we share. Thank you Dr Peterson and Bro. Mustafa. We need more of this civilised discussions.

[@nahianakhkhar9380]

I wasnt expecting such great discussion between two intelligent men. My time spend on this video was worth every penny. Thank you Doctor

[@dr.mcjazz]

A terrific conversation. After it finished I thought to myself, "what a great way to spend time", listening to two intelligent and articulate people discussing potentially hostile viewpoints and having my mind stretched and challenged as a result.

[@aika7974]

As someone who born and raise irreligious. Thank you for JP for introducing numerous interesting talked in this podcast. I like to hear religious perspective and any other secular perspective. It helps me to understand people mind from numerous background and why they're particularly act or think into certain way.

[@morimoralhar5744]

Best clip I have watched, please do more of these, very rich and informative.

[@Emal789]

Thank you for trying to build peace and connect communities ...I am a muslim and love listening to you ❤️ Looking forward to other podcasts with Islamic scholars like Hamza Yusuf and Timothy Winter 😇

[@kltyo]

To say Muhammad was "one of the most evil men that ever lived" can only be said by someone with blinkers on. In Muhammad's age Christianity was in an incredible state of perversion, prejudice and violence. Judged by his place in time Muhammed was at least a slight improvement.

[@djonfonsteen6331]

@@kltyo Yes, look all through history to see so called evil deeds. You both seem to carry this crazy behaviour on thousands of years later. The power of division.

[@Emal789]

@Branch Covidian may God guide you (if you have been indoctrinated by propaganda against islam) to see the truth as truth and falsehood as falsehood 🤲🏼 it s sad though that you can cite quran and cherry-pick and I am pretty sure you haven't neither read the verse before it nor the commentary on the verses you cite... There is a billion dollar islamophobia industry, if you re part of those who are paid to spread lies then there is no need to even answer

[@Egyptianfaith]

@@Emal789 Arab here. Please stop this delusion that everyone is brainwashed against Islam. If you are against people hating muhammed for marrying a child and beheading, why? How could you support this?

[@Emal789]

@@Egyptianfaith lol 😂 so because you an arab, I should believe every word you say about Islam or Muhammad SAW...I was misguided like you once so I know exactly the type of ignorance you are suffering from ...

[@khanG-gq9hc]

Absolutely loved the energy in this discussion. Actually listening to each other. ❤️

[@anamusic2728]

We admire what you are doing mr Peterson. We’re all aiming for one religion that is guiding us to infinity wisdom and infinity compassion which is love. Thank you 🙏🏽

[@ahmedzaki9434]

Amazing conversation. Thank you for making this happen. I think these conversations should become the new norm.

[@ameeradil]

Dr Peterson we Muslims have a lot of respect for you & your work we beg you pls have a question Dr Tim Winters / Sheikh Hamza Yusuf

[@zubairabbasi7879]

It would be nice If Dr Peterson reads the biography of prophet Muhammad by Ibn Ishaq

[@jpaqon]

@@zubairabbasi7879 Might be hard considering he doesn't speak Arabic. Martin Lings book would be a better start

[@jamesmcnicholas2554]

This is a great introductory Podcast for the likes of Christians (including me), who have a minute knowledge of Islam. I reckon JP will be interviewing more traditionalist characters with firmer views, moving forward, which would make sense to broaden and deepen the conversation...Greatly enjoyed this discussion and as always have learnt quite a lot and more informed....👍

[@amarzizzy6466]

i hope so. He was supposed to interview Mohammed Hijab, who has more traditionalist and firm views, but it was canceled. Hopefully he interviews him or Hamza Yusuf to get a broader understanding of the majority of Muslims

[@danielgarduno9600]

Cancelled 3 times already, smh

[@bilalinsydney]

It's funny and also ignorant how so many Christians don't know anything about Islam. You do understand both Christianity and Islam are Abrahamic religions and literally believe in the same God.

[@michellejohnsen912]

@@bilalinsydney Allah is NOT the same God as the God of the Bible. This is clear if you read the Bible. The personality of Allah is NOT the personality of the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible is a Godhead. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All of whom are God. One God in 3 persons. So, who is ignorant?

[@bilalinsydney]

@@michellejohnsen912 Literally the most silly theory ever. God is one, unique and has no partners.

[@wisdom7476]

That was a heart filling conversation! ❤️

[@misiraly]

excellent interview! Thank you Mustafa for your kindness!

[@charlierose5569]

Wohoooooo!! I’ve been waiting all day! The highlight of my Mondays - I actually schedule my lunchtime around these podcasts

[@LegalAutomation]

You single or Nah?

[@oDazzleRazzle]

100% 😂 every single Monday I wait and I refresh for this podcast. I listen to it everyday on my breaks and my lunches and usually cover one once a week, unless it is a super riveting one, which will end up being much faster than that 😂

[@SupernaturalBeingsofEarth]

2 men bullshieting is your thing ? Not a lot of truth here.

[@RoyArrowood]

@@LegalAutomation Swing and a miss 😂 Keep swinging though brother. I can't blame you she looks good and likes Peterson

[@esterhudson5104]

@@LegalAutomation lol

[@lamortexotique]

There are all kinds of humans in the world: religious good people, religious bad people, non-religious good people, non-religious bad people, and every shade in between each combination. Sometimes we think we know the other person simply because we heard how their name sounds, or from how they look, or from the culture they came from, or from their religious beliefs, but in my life, I have been very, very surprised many, many times, because some humans turned out to be very different from what my little head originally conceived them to be. There is a beauty in sometimes being proven wrong. Sometimes it is pleasant, sometimes unpleasant, but it is sometimes fascinating to face the limitations of your own mind. It is then that we realize that the world is full of surprises.

[@dothemathemathics7537]

I agree

[@arunimachakraborty4596]

This was a beautiful comment. Thank you for sharing your thought

[@aswinhoola]

Hi Jordan hope you're doing better. I genuinely found this interview intellectually exacting and revivifying. Great job!

[@feronium7547]

Incredibly grateful for this conversation

[@andrewtham8093]

"Let's break bread together." That's the best concluding statement in an interview. Thank you, Dr Peterson, for having this conversation!

[@JSMI]

This is truly a fascinating conversation. I love hearing more about this topic.

[@Tarz2155]

well get ready Mohamed hijab is coming

[@JSMI]

@@Tarz2155 I prefer to hear more about Jesus Christ but I enjoyed this conversation. I like hearing from Christ from the muslim point of view but I would like to hear it from Buddhists and from other points of views. Christ is an obsession of mine...I don't know much on this Mohammed Hijab but I assume we will hear from his soon.

[@HamidAcharrab]

Loved every second of this. Very much respect for Mr. Peterson's intellect and interest in understanding the dimensions of Islam he had a hard time understanding. I would much love to see a continuation of this conversation with other scholars such as Hamza Yusuf or Yusuf Estes who used to be a Christian preacher.

[@christianjack8189]

Amazing chat gentleman, thank you! it felt like the surface was scratched, in a fitting way.

[@champitadub]

Excellent discussion 🙏❤️ from a Bible believing Christian. Thank you both, I hope you can meet again soon and share more conversations! May God shine His face upon you all.

[@sissach1]

In today's attention-deficit world, its refreshing to sit down to a long-form discussion between two reasonable and well educated interlocutors.

[@muhammedscholl7417]

This type of conversation should be the daily talk in the mainstream Muslim world if we want to have any chance of not stay in the underground forever. With the help from a man of action like Jorden Peterson and men like Mostafa Akyol we will find our way again Inshallah. It's so beautiful to watch. Thank you Jordan B Peterson and Mustafa Akyol.

[@TheAMOTVBrunei]

Thanks Jordan for broadening the religious discussion to include Islam. As others have said, there's a hungry for such intellectual debate to break down barriers between the three great religions. May you include more people like Mustafa Akyol in the future. Regards, Malik.

[@mostafasaid5012]

Eagerly waiting for Shaykh Hamza Yusuf & Mohamed Hijab. 😄

[@DudeHammerake-Shaun]

isnt hijab the guy who cheated alex o connor

[@tangchan6221]

Isn’t Hijab the one who made rape threats against Ed-Muslims wives and talked expensively about golden showers in the chat of two KZbin es talking about the discrepancies in Islamic literature ?

[@mostafasaid5012]

@@DudeHammerake-Shaun No

[@mostafasaid5012]

@@tangchan6221 No

[@joeyouyang]

@@tangchan6221 he sure is "YOU RE FINISHED BOY"

[@milkydays1043]

This was absolutely beautiful to listen and to watch. God bless you Jordan Peterson and Mustafa Akyol!

[@sabgfx1]

Amen!

[@twnb7733]

The west will soon be destroyed----Quran(9:30) ".....May Allah destroy The Jews and Christians......" Quran(9:123) "Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhoods" Quran(22:19) "Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire,hooked unto rods,boiling water,melt their skins and bellies". Quran (47:4) "Do not hanker for peace with the infidels;behead them when you catch them" Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end. Quran (2;191) "Slay the unbelievers where ever you find them" Quran(3:28) "Muslim's must not take infidels as their friends" Quran(3:85 "Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable" Quran (5;33) "Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam" Quran(8:12) "Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Quran" Quran(8:60) "Muslim's must muster all weapons to terrorize the Infidels" Quran(8:65) "The unbelievers are stupid,urge the Muslim's to fight them" Quran(9:5) SAHIH INTERNATIONAL And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.Quran(9:5)

[@sameerzahid3544]

@@twnb7733 You aren't deceiving anyone but yourself with these false translations.

[@twnb7733]

@@sameerzahid3544 Really? Let's study the Quran 9/30 altogether?

[@twnb7733]

@@sameerzahid3544 Quran9/30 proves that the Quran is full of errors, written by someone of violence.

[@Pilot.Natkho]

I commented previously at two other video's that a seeker of truth (Mr. Peterson) will find it especially in Islam but watching this video the emotions that made Mr. Peterson smirk made me smirk too, in the different aspects when the truth was touched upon, its actually eye watering to be honest maybe this what faith makes us feel when we are being honest to our selves or at least trying to be (having an awareness of your consciousness). Dear Mr. Peterson Allah says "dear worshipers if you debate and study my faiths your efforts will not be lost" what is meant is that its a type of worshiping So... may Allah grant you and all of us what we deserve at the day of judgment and I would be happy to meet you inshallah in Heaven.

[@mikolajreykruszyna]

The seeds of truth are everywhere in our world...! available for the one who seeks and alows himself to be guided. Mr Petertson, Mr Akyol "Chapeau bas/hats off"