The Uncomfortable Truth Behind Economic Inequality | Glenn Loury | EP 245

[@Destichado]

Man, what a great conversation. We're so privileged to live in a time where dialogue like this is both possible but also so easily accessible. Thank you both.

[@Destichado]

@@furerorban_1488 bahahahahahaha

[@MrVorpalsword]

Yes, I suspect there shall be a huge shift and re-balancing of the 'uneducated' v the 'educated'. The snobbery shall [possibly] very soon be unjustifiable. Some friends of mine who didn't go to university lap this stuff up, some of those who DID, can't bear to hear Jordan Peterson, (by reason of pure prejudice) .... more fool them. Interesting times, democratising too? well aye, let's hope.

[@kastaway2]

And yet the internet destroys. Trans chat rooms convincing children they are different because they are insecure. Racist chat rooms. One can have their current beliefs validated by trolls and evil people.

[@slamdangles]

Right? It's so easy to be educated today as long as you're willing to take the time.

[@willferguson5023]

@@Destichado Agree 100%

[@jkonrad]

Peterson is looking 100% like his old self. Strong, focused, energetic and joyful. What a delight to see! Welcome back, friend.

[@sajjman5924]

::spit take:: Huh? Thats "focused, energetic, and joyful" to you? 🤦🏾‍♂️

[@garymccray7822]

@@sajjman5924 Compared to how he was not that long ago? Yes, he is vastly improved.

[@garyodriscoll7988]

@@sajjman5924 he was almost dead 2 years aho

[@sajjman5924]

@@garyodriscoll7988 oh, I didn't know it was anything serious.

[@sajjman5924]

@@garyodriscoll7988 damn, didn’t know that.

[@Pacdoc-oz]

I am 80 and went to University in the sixties doing science, philosophy and medicine. Listening to these two, and many other Peterson conversations reminded me that this was how we were taught at University in seminars and practicals and visiting intellectuals. Jordon is conducting an Open University of the Web and it is beyond priceless. To think critically, NOT to be critical but to listen and dialogue and analyse and test thoughts and ideas.

[@georgefontes1306]

Apparently not having Majored(perhaps a lack of proofreading/in a rush/lesser inclined to often leave comment/certainly a difference in keyboards over time) in English, Communications, etc. "Much love, respect and God bless. The demon we face is not immortal." P.S. Who the heck am I to critique Mr. Chalmers?

[@DDeCicco]

Glenn is a total class act. He's easily one of my favorite public intellectuals because he routinely shows charity and broad-mindedness towards opinions that counter his own.

[@BinnyBongBaron_AoE]

I'm ashamed to admit this, but as an alcoholic, it's so inspirational to see such a successful and intelligent man as Dr Glenn Loury had defeated addiction, despite his life collapsing all around him. Thank you, so much.

[@sarkasmt2]

Don't be ashamed, my guy. Admitting you have an issue does take some damn guts. Keep up with that attitude and I believe you can kick anything you're fighting. Good luck!

[@evanray8413]

@@sarkasmt2 Ditto!

[@-ChrisD]

@@sarkasmt2 Agree.

[@chrisdunlop6649]

Agreed. I just joined his YT channel.

[@-ChrisD]

@@chrisdunlop6649 👍🏻

[@Outlier-db8sq]

I love Glenn! Clicked this video immediatley. He is such an intelligent man and respected economist that speaks clearly and understandably to someone who never went to college. I appreciate his honesty and consistency to truth. Both Jordan and Glenn are individuals who refuse to succumb to false or misinterpreted notions of reality. Keep speaking in the name of truth and others will be inspired to do the same. Thank you both.

[@freddieoblivion6122]

Thought the same thing - oooo SCORE. THAT's a dynamic duo.

[@py_a_thon]

This discussion is a level of epic that I am not sure will be understood for a long while. People joke about the intellectual dark web? This is possibly a moment of game theory level equilibria that was expected yet could be potentially have been blocked as a result of neo-era chosen ignorance. Interesting and intelligent people talking is something that some people wish to prevent. They have failed. They have failed entirely.

[@TheNas45]

Guys, just stop it! You like Glenn mostly because he berates black people 99% of the time. And mostly you folks are MAGA conservatives.

[@ladyfaye8248]

There are sufficient tasks to be undertaken which require no more than a basic level IQ, to provide employment for all who answer to that description. It's social structure and willingness that is required to facilitate the provision.

[@py_a_thon]

@@gregkirk1842 Nah. This is just how people properly exercise the variable traits of disagreement in the context of academic discussion. Conversation is an ecosystem and interruptions can often serve an important purpose. Glenn recently spoke to Sam Harris(for example) and he interrupted him more than a few times. The result was often a more narrow and stringent form of explicit communication. Glenn even managed to get SamHarris to elaborate well enough to hit a flow state of logic and human expression(in my opinion).

[@Smithistory]

I'm hoping Dr. Loury gets a much needed bump to his podcast here on KZbin. He and John McWhorter are two very important voices on race in the US that aren't getting enough attention.

[@jimkennedy4509]

That’s because they are honest and intelligent. They aren’t going for a narrative

[@chadjohns6955]

I have been saying this any time I see either of them on any other podcast, I cannot believe that the Glenn Show has only about 30k subs, it's criminal, I wish they had 300k or 3 million, people should hear what they have to say

[@JuliaHelen777]

Same is happening in the Netherlands. Seen the migration colonisation history, it doesn't surprise me but it worries me, especially with the movements disgraceing the already ugly past history of humans & slavery. That with so much information distortion & ignorance, breaks my heart. :(

[@lsjohn]

Yes they are, but it's knee-jerk of us (me too, I committed the sin in a recommendation I made last week) to think race is the central subject on which they can motivate and educate us. Find any conversation between them and start it playing as your head hits the pillow.

[@garyodriscoll7988]

@@chadjohns6955 because we have Thomas Sowell… can this man teach me more than TS? Let’s find out!

[@cybnblau]

Who could resist Glenn and Jordan having a predictably fascinating talk together? Wonderfully absorbing. Two precious gems. One sparkling conversation.

[@sindarpeacheyeisacommie8688]

Glad Doc Laury was honest about the messes in his life. Makes him a real person, not just an articulate talking head. Also, it is inspiring to see a man of such formidable talents turn his powerful abilities against his inner demons.

[@sheilafield4545]

He’s a treasure!

[@OGMann]

This is what I tell people, constantly. You can turn your life around if you are truly driven to do so. It takes effort, and determination. It takes work. It can be done. Quit waiting for someone else to fix your life for you. Bootstrap it.

[@sheilafield4545]

@@OGMann 100% agree!

[@cloud-dragon]

I liked this part the most. Honesty is the best thing that can happen in any discussion.

[@beryl6ful]

So true. This is a quality sorely lacking in a lot of intellectuals

[@waltersargent6951]

I was one of Glenn Loury's students at Harvard back in 1987. The name of the seminar, as I recall, was "Economic Analysis of Racial Inequality in the U.S." I loved this man, and was stunned by the truly shocking revelations about his personal life just as he was about to become, as I recall, the Deputy Secretary of Education in the Reagan administration. After that, he seemed to disappear from view. Much later, he emerged at other institutions, expressing very different views, particularly about matters of race and, somewhat surprisingly, religionr. He eventually found his way to Brown University. Having watched his podcast on a number of occasions, I've bees delighted to discover that he is still the man I knew 35 years ago -- super smart, unafraid to speak his mind, modest (he can run intellectual circles around most of his interlocutors, but he treats everyone politely and doesn't show off his erudition), genuinely open to different or evolving views, and charmingly good-natured with an easy smile. Glenn Loury remains one of my academic heroes. I hope that he has a long and productive life; he speaks simply and persuasively about some of the most incendiary issues of our time. So good to have you back, Glenn!

[@SmallBobby]

@@T8RZTOTZ I love to hear discussions from both, but I give a slight edge to McWhorter.

[@rp3436]

I know plenty of educated fools...this is one

[@hubriswonk]

I have heard him say on another podcast that while teaching at Harvard he would go into the hood and hangout on the streets to feel like a "bad MF".............and he states he did this for years. Hard to believe why someone so brilliant would waste their time doing such things to compensate whatever he felt was lacking. I suspect he no longer feels the need to hang out on the streets to feel justified.

[@zarbins]

​@@hubriswonk I would imagine he felt more connected to his roots or was attempting to reaffirm his black identity as you said to, "compensate for something lacking." I heard his comments on that matter it seemed, in my humble opinion, he liked being able to show his intellectual prowess in academia, the so called "black professor at Harvard," and then walk across the tracks, so to speak, and prove he was still street smart and able to hang with a very different crowd. His family also gave him a hard time for being so academically successful and not "giving back to his people," particularly in the 80s when he was conservative. Likely there was a strong identity crises going on internally in Prof. Loury. Looking forward to his memoir coming out next year as I am sure these matters at discussed are length.

[@b-radsadventures6846]

Ideology is low resolution. What a profound statement. Most people can't or don't want to do the work. You two are national treasures.

[@mattmcdonald7112]

You need low resolution ideas to have high resolution ones. As ideology is really any system or collection of ideas Jordan Petersons own 12 rules despite stating "avoid ideology" are in fact a form of ideology. It's unavoidable, when u try to avoid isms you become them, example, hate communism, probably gravitate towards capitalism, still an ism, still based in economic theory and still ideological.

[@francescofilipponio]

@@mattmcdonald7112 i get what you're saying but you are using a different definition of ideology. What you are describing are probably values (which are absolutely necessary to act) and he is probably talking about a rationally made kind of ideology like communism. A definition of ideology might be "a set of values predicated by rational thinking and shared by a community"

[@outofcompliance1639]

True but even if it was high resolution if no one in the mainstream is spreading it nothing will change, only the choir will improve.

[@emgee3057]

There IS Hope 😎🙏❤️

[@andrewboyles3412]

It's brilliant because it wraps up a complex topic in a few words that are truthful.

[@sherpalou]

Professor Peterson strives more than anyone I have ever heard to be truthful and to say exactly what he means. He deserves every respect

[@f1fnatik]

This conversation is just so good. Two adults at the top of their fields discussing important subjects, both listening and imparting knowledge to one another and to the audience. Just brilliant.

[@Nobody-Nowhere]

How is Peterson on top of his field? He is a clinical psychologist, he has published in total of 5 papers.

[@clifearls9330]

This is how adults should behave.

[@michielkarskens2284]

@@Nobody-Nowhere you are right. He fails to mention neither he nor Loury fit the square rule.

[@sparxy1968]

@@michielkarskens2284 You are both armchair pundits!!! What credentials have you got to even come close to the level of the two intellects here? People like you are hilarious. I wonder how many times Harvard invited you to complete studies with them lol? Not many, I suspect 🙂

[@Dr_Paul_Proteus]

How many active clinical psychologists can you name? One. JBP

[@kenwahler3277]

Im glad Glenn Loury and John McWhorter are going more mainstream, been listening to them for years.

[@angourie444]

HELLO, I LOVE YOU LADY

[@FiremarshalM1]

Agree Ken! When Roland Fryer's research 🧐 came out and then (the powers that be) TPTB came after Roland, Glenn and John's coverage was (I felt) the most compelling.

[@JonasCraftUltimate]

Add Coleman Hughes to the list and we have the intellectual black web ;)

[@FiremarshalM1]

@@JonasCraftUltimate I see what you did there.

[@chadjohns6955]

Absolutely, I am always blown away that the Glenn Show still has less than 30k subs, so underrated

[@StripedBass-vq6vz]

From a therapist's perspective, Glenn Loury is such a great model for how to conduct an internal dialogue. Anyone who's familiar with his work knows that he frequently engages in Socratic dialogue and will "iron man" opposing viewpoints. Notice how he expresses a genuine curiosity in JP's POV as a humble, inquisitor. Such a great thinker worthy of emulation.

[@beemo9]

Loury is great at seeing both sides of an issue - a skill many lack. Wish Jordan had talked less and encouraged more input from Glenn.

[@chromebooktest1128]

"Notice how he expresses a genuine curiosity in JP's POV as a humble, inquisitor. " Yes, i did.

[@fstjeanm]

Loury is a pure, intelligent, scientific mind with a genuine curiousness for truth. Highly refreshing from what we are used to see which are people with a political agenda.

[@pkirkham25]

@@beemo9 I disagree. I've not listened to or seen Glenn before, but I was captivated by what he had to say. It never felt like he was spoken over or not given enough time. Where I would agree is that at times it felt as if Glenn might have had more to say, but he was naturally reserved and without a further prompt from Jordan, we didn't get to hear more. The flipside is that it meant the conversation covered a vast array of topics. Fascinating to listen to.

[@chromebooktest1128]

@@psychcowboy1 dont try too hard.. you might pull a muscle

[@alanbrooks8579]

Beautiful discussion between two very intelligent men who truly care about the plight of humanity. We need much more of this.

[@jasonleatiota1439]

Having worked with organizations that specialize in employing mentally impaired individuals and I can corroborate what Dr. P is pointing out. The challenge of teaching them to do something like rolling silverware for a restaurant, for example, was almost impossible. It’s not just the mechanics of rolling them up, it’s also having the awareness not to do specific things like pick one’s nose, or cough directly on the utensils, etc. The level of supervision required is high. But the meaning and satisfaction and joy and pride they got from telling people they were “going to work” or telling people about their job and participating in these things we take for granted was undeniable and beyond rewarding. Unfortunately that whole endeavor has been greatly inhibited by “well-intentioned democrats” who thought it was unconscionable that these poor souls were getting paid less than minimum wage and felt it was their duty to pass legislation guaranteeing they be paid “properly”. The reality is, if you have to pay them the same rate, it’s not much of a choice between someone who requires constant supervision and can produce 10% of the output of the average high schooler, so most of them lost their jobs, at least in this state. Truly saddening

[@goatface6602]

In a truly free society all those people would have jobs. I too used to think politicians were well meaning but ineffective. I no longer believe the “well meaning” part. They don’t give damn about anything but themselves.

[@daviddub]

@@MikkoAPenttila you use the word exploit. If they are not able to produce even nearly the same output, how is it exploitation to pay them less? Why choose that word per se? If they have higher output, then they can command higher wages. If they have lower wages, they can't command as high a wage. How is that exploitation? If you need to buy a vehicle, and all you need is a small two-seat car to get back and forth to work are you going to pay the price of a business purpose Semi-truck? Is it exploitation for you to expect to pay less for your two-seater, or is it more likely exploitation that someone expects you to pay the same price for a Honda Civic as for a Semi-truck, for the sake of feaux equality?

[@seaslob2820]

Please name the restaurant so I am sure not to eat there. Gross!!!

[@jeffreykennedy5953]

@@MikkoAPenttila From my experience, you have this exactly backwards. The very best companies reward performance and do not exploit. Moral is high and so is productivity. Note this also means that poor performance do not get rewarded and in many cases are fired. This also helps moral because conscientious people do not like pulling other people’s weight. The companies I’ve seen that truly exploit people are the very worst companies that are struggling to survive. Exploitation certainly happens, but it is a competitive disadvantage.

[@wbtittle]

A friend of mine was a supervisor of such folks. It was terrifying to find out how much it cost. 1 hour of supervision was $70. The person he was supervising got paid by the company he was working for. My friend got paid by Easter seals... $20/hour. Easter Seals Charged $70/hour for his time. The state paid the bill. This is something that caused me to choke.

[@antisocialjustice]

It's a rare pleasure to watch smart people discuss potentially politically incorrect topics in good faith

[@the2ndcoming135]

Well, yeah. Although not everything they’ve touched on holds my interest on a personal level.

[@lucaschihuahuas]

More politically incorrect please. Woke is dying...can you hear wokes last breaths?

[@af5433]

@@lucaschihuahuas Woke is dying? Really?

[@lucaschihuahuas]

@@af5433 yes...you'll see...

[@blackloki9]

​@@lucaschihuahuas isn't woke just code for black why not just say what you mean.

[@andrewkarsten5268]

The fact that doctor loury has been willing to shift and reconsider his beliefs through his life shows just how thoughtful he is when looking at these issues. It’s really great to see, we need people who actually think about the issues and not just follow their party, which is exactly what doctor loury does

[@quartqwertbudisgood]

The mark of an honest man

[@tolearntoaskisthattrue6086]

Ya think so? Read my reply above and think again.

[@andrewkarsten5268]

@@tolearntoaskisthattrue6086 what?

[@darrellshoub7527]

Absolutely.

[@tango_uniform]

It doesn't take a doctorate in econ from MIT to understand why inequality is necessary. If janitors and brain surgeons made the same amount of money, who would take out the trash and who would operate on people?

[@AjaxDGonzo]

I hope Peterson gets more guests like this, thoughtful ones who ask their own questions. That is what separates the interview from a conversation.

[@goodtalker]

Watching this vid prompted me to put my own "two cents" into this conversation. I worked in adult education in a California state prison for 25 years. Nearly 100 percent of my students were either black or Hispanic. Interestingly, I never once met one who thought of himself as a victim. On the contrary, if I heard it once, I heard it hundreds of times: "I put myself in this place."

[@goodtalker]

@@christiansgrignoli3351 Again, another common comment was something along the lines of, "My brothers are officers in the military and my sister works for HP. I'm the screw up." Thanks for your remark.

[@smario2820]

Interesting remark on victim identity or lack thereof when faced with an imposed period of self-reflection. It's an under explored area I'd like to learn more about. I've observed victim identity in allot of people including myself and thankfully, through being conscious about it and becoming more open to deep learning, I've been able to improve my outlook, I am much less nihilistic. Trauma is a hyper-complex issue as are the ways we could learn to 'deal' with it and looking at both sides is always important. Do you write publicly about your experience teaching inmates? - if so I'd love to read it. If not, I'd encourage you to do so. Greetings from London.

[@elitecoaching4927]

I worked with addicts and sex offenders for last 20 years, they play the victim, it’s the way they could protect their egos. However, when they felt they could be forgiven, did their own trauma work, then they were able to take responsibility to heal. On another note, all poor people who were incarcerated for the last 25 years are victims to a corrupt, money driven, abusive CJS system. I felt the best way to help was to help individuals in the system stop being pons and finish parole successfully.

[@goodtalker]

@@elitecoaching4927 IMO, everything is driven by profit, corrupt, and potentially abusive. The best antidote, again IMO, is to see all "systems" for what they are and change oneself such that others no longer see you as prey. This begins with you no longer seeing yourself as prey. Simple hypothesis, but not easy.

[@trent1615]

@@goodtalker I work in a prison and in my experience most of the inmates I talk to come from homes where violating social norms was pretty common plenty of moms, dads and offspring all in at the same time. Most from underserved communities, broken homes and dysfunctional families. Yes we had the black sheep type but that was exception not the rule.

[@JT-iw2cw]

Dr. Loury, your vacillations between political parties is a reflection of your honesty and openness to new ideas. I find your journey inspiring, and touching. You brought me to tears in under a minute.

[@daithi1966]

I was supposed to go to bed an hour ago, and even though I could stop and play this conversation at any time, I couldn't help but watch the whole thing. I'm a fan of both of these men.

[@spill1t]

Very same and I'm quite ill too so they kept me up and kept me suffering for the whole engagement.

[@DanManahan]

"I'm keenly aware of how politically incorrect this conversation is we are having" 1:02 Best quote to sum up what a productive conversation sounds like today! Great discussion.

[@johnboughen3064]

PC, a trickle-down weaponisation of language, allowed to manifest and grow beyond reason, purely to mold and conform the masses into a political will not within their best interests, via fear, persecution and legal prosecution.

[@bishopheahmund2664]

Glenn Loury is a real genius. He inspired me to study math and economy

[@daylily32]

Parasite here...this is NOT a response from Jordan Peterson...this worm did the same 2 responses to me...

[@Bisquick]

So by "study math and economy", do you mean justify US corporate empire's continued global "full spectrum domination" hegemony along with its imposed neoliberal finance capitalism (as opposed to industrial capitalism, which at least has to produce something, a bug not a feature to wall street demons) via the absurd continually falsified bunk conceptions legitimized without merit in neoclassical econ? "Fun" fact: the original conception of "free market", in classical economics meant a market _free of rent_ , not as essentially a market free _for_ rent extraction/usury, as it is culturally understood to mean now, thanks to neoclassical econ's conflation of all market interactions as productive, regardless of if they, you know, fucking _produce_ anything (see: FIRE sector, finance, insurance, real estate - that bot above me knows what I'm talkin about lol...) _"Kelp was never augmented by human industry. The landlord, however, whose estate is bounded by a kelp shore of this kind, demands a rent for it."_ - Adam "father of capitalism" Smith, ch.11, Wealth of Nations making the through-line point of _all_ classical econ (David Ricardo/John Stuart Mill, et al. up to Marx who merely took their analyses to their logical conclusion; tendency of rate of profit to fall for example which is central to Marx's crisis theory, also highlighted by Smith, ch.6 in WoN if I recall; profit itself illuminated by Marx to be essentially rent extraction of the difference between value produced by the worker structurally usurped by the capitalist inherently in the employer/employee class dynamic, see: "surplus value") that has been lost to a palimpsest of historical revisionism (much like the actual ideas these figures argued for, Smith advocating industrial capitalism's productive elements and outlining clearly its progression into socialism with guidance from the state that Marx extended, in other words more a protosocialist than a proponent of capitalism if one, you know, _actually reads_ what the dude wrote, imagine that), that the "rentier class" is an unproductive parasitic strain of social bondage achieved via natural monopoly or structural exploitation as rent is by definition value extracted _without_ value produced, a clear contradiction to the justifying logic of "the market" and a vestige of feudal social relations (hence the term "landlord"). Anyway, if inapplicable and you're just studying regular math and exploring many conceptions of econ and not like maximizing "efficiency" (capital accumulation) or whatever bullshit as per the unquestioned assumptions of neoliberalism which dominate the field of "economics", feel free to disregard (I mean really, even _if_ applicable feel free to disregard, don't really care lol, just making the point); unsubtle implied point of course being that far from "genius", the dude sucks, explains nothing, entirely an appeal to the authority of nature aka naturalistic fallacy, a conflation of what "is" (descriptive) with what "ought" to be (normative) aka incoherent reactionary bullshit. But hey, what did I expect, this is Jordan "I'm on the verge of crying at all moments" Peterson afterall. _“The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas.”_ _"The bourgeoisie cannot exist without constantly revolutionizing the instruments of production, and thereby the relations of production, and with them the whole relations of society. Conservation of the old modes of production in unaltered form, was, on the contrary, the first condition of existence for all earlier industrial classes. Constant revolutionizing of production, uninterrupted disturbance of all social conditions, everlasting uncertainty and agitation distinguish the bourgeois epoch from all earlier ones. All fixed, fast-frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they can ossify. All that is solid melts into air_ [Metaverse/NFTs/Crypto/finance/tech bs, all unconsciously undergirded by global US corporate empire entirely taken for granted], _all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind."_ - some guy, a bit optimistic at the end we wouldn't just choose individual delusion while the planet quite literally burns around us... _"The ultimate hidden truth of the world is that it is something we make and could just as easily make differently."_ - the late great David Graeber

[@Berzerka]

bar his comment about his glasses😂

[@HiNi.]

both John Mcwhorter and Glenn are some of my favourite people on this earth, so glad to see you talking to both of them!

[@texdad91]

Great discussion. 23 years sober here and I continue to be humbled by my character defects to this day. Ego deflation is so important for my sobriety. I am my own worst enemy and willingness and action each day to align myself with God’s Will is my challenge.

[@TheDuncskunk]

I'm 8 years sober and that lines up with my experience.

[@rareartists]

Simply a beautiful thing to watch. You Love To See It. ✨🤝

[@elizabethwinsor-strumpetqueen]

3 yrs.... No alcohol - different world.. M

[@caralho5237]

i'm 17 and cant get off the computer to do my homework

[@SteversIO]

Sharing his story about addiction and the halfway house brought me to tears. Thank you Jordan for introducing us all to this beautiful human being, Glenn Loury. We all have lessons to learn from him.

[@jeffyboyreloaded]

the fact that this discussion is free is mindboggling

[@justindunlap6009]

No doubt. It’s the positive side to the fact that your data and your attention is a viable product for social media companies. Yet another double edged sword

[@designthinkingwithgian]

your time and attention comes at a "price"

[@yatesfletcher1424]

I'm so glad Jordan has recently arranged conversations with Glenn and John McWhorter. These guys are very articulate first rate thinkers, and they have important things to say about contemporary issues. I hope these conversations raise their profiles. They deserve a much wider audience than they appear to have.

[@MUST-TRT]

Agreed and of course. However, in order for these types of speakers and educators to have larger audiences and a bigger following, we need more of the types of people willing to learn and listen and to think more in depth about these complex issues. We need more people who truly want to hear opposing and yet valuable potential solutions or views on topics such as these from sources(like these two amazing men) that take effort to truly digest. Most people unfortunately, and as I'm sure you know - don't care to think much. Especially about the validity of an idea or view that opposes their own.

[@janecoleman6450]

Blogging Heads, The Glenn Show, is another great conversation. Glenn and John are great.

[@mygoditsfullofstars7220]

​@@psychcowboy1 Peterson often makes unsubstantiated presumptions about what this group or that group thinks and how they live. It's enervating to say the least.

[@Astheros]

I knew nothing of these two professors. So glad i watched both their discussions. Brave individuals to say the least.

[@yatesfletcher1424]

@@psychcowboy1 "No one will face it. How do you know this?" Well for starters we conduct public policy as if it isn't true, and anyone who points it out is branded a racist.

[@jondoh2226]

I really enjoyed this conversation. I like how it seems Glenn is easy to communicate with. It seems like he is focused on sharing understanding of ideas rather than just getting wrapped up in minute details the way many others do.

[@tim72184]

He's recovering nicely from his bout with RIS.

[@kmdn1]

I wish more conversations were like this. people forget that the point of conversing on these topics is to share ideas and insights to have better understanding between two people. It's so commonplace for a "conversation" on media platforms to just become a pissing contest- which is not only boring AF but it's not useful to anyone

[@sajjman5924]

Seems like it.

[@sajjman5924]

@@kmdn1people are conversating like this all the time dude. you just got the warm and fuzzies listening to a disconnected black dude and a Canadian nobody calmly dog whistling for one and one half hours. You would rather roll around and some thumbtacks than listen to people calmly, slowing talk about police shooting and killing unarmed black people every day.

[@johnmalcolm4822]

Does the Free Market really exist? Are consumers so accurately and uniformly informed (and so seldom deliberately misinformed) t hat their decisions are rational?

[@staticregret829]

Two individuals expressing themselves, explaining their points, taking into consideration the other side, then taking a moment to process what was said. Discussions like this are needed to help improve the mindsets of others. Thank you both for your contributions.

[@Anteflop]

Stoked. Glenn is one of my favorite speakers. He has such a way with words.

[@prolaxbro4474]

Love Glenn. A free thinker and a professor. Not just any professor but a professor who reads and respects Doctor Thomas Sowell.

[@MidwesternCoon]

@@psychcowboy1 you don’t. Capitalism runs on greed and selfish motives. Instead of trying to be rid of greed the simple thing to do is to try and find ways to increase competition (and expel cronyism) so everyone can practice their greed in a fair system. Greed and selfishness in a capitalist sense isn’t inherently a bad thing, it’s when that greed is backed by powers of the State which allows some to negate the forces of Free market economics while others feel the brunt of it. I.E. Amazon being considered an essential business while Small/Mid size companies who do similar things were forced to shut down during Covid. That’s cronyism at work.

[@brahtrumpwonbigly7309]

@@psychcowboy1 prevent monopolies

[@MidwesternCoon]

@@psychcowboy1 increasing tax rates on wealthy individuals does not regulate greed, it entices the wealthy to dodge taxes even more than they already do. There’s a reason why higher tax rates doesn’t equate to higher tax revenue.

[@MidwesternCoon]

@@psychcowboy1 ….. bruh I didn’t list the “benefits” because there are no benefits. Lmfao my guy if the wealthy dodge the higher tax rates (something they’ve been doing for a literal century, maybe pick up a history book?) all those beautiful benefits you listed wouldn’t come into fruition, UNLESS the high tax rates fall onto the middle class who don’t have the knowledge to dodge said taxes. Which then refutes the strange claim that smaller businesses will now have more spending power, seeing their customer base will now be paying the taxes created for the wealthy. Rent control or “stabilized housing costs” doesn’t increase spending power, if it did you wouldn’t be considered broke as shit if you only make 50k in New York, a heavily rent controlled city. I’m still confused as hell on your logic of increased taxes on the wealthy somehow turning into more spending power for small businesses. That’s a wild ass claim that isn’t supported by ANY historical evidence.

[@MidwesternCoon]

@@psychcowboy1 wait lmfao if the middle class are just as smart as the lawyers wealthy individuals hire to evade egregious taxes….. why wouldn’t the wealthy ALSO EVADE the tax rate hikes you’re proposing…? Didn’t think that far huh? Second note, are you seriously telling me that avoiding the average %2.8 increase in rent costs is enough to all of a sudden give you the spending power to enact in activities??? As if the same inflation that causes rent increases doesn’t also affect home owners????????? 3rd note mostly all small businesses that fail see this failure because A. They don’t have a business plan B. Poor management C. Failure to understand their customer base D. Trying to do everything themselves. You must live on Earth 315 if you think the average %3 retail rent increases are the reason smaller businesses fail at the rate they do. Maybe when the economy is shut down due to poor Gov administration leadership but uh….. how often does the US economy shut down like it did in 2020? You know what, don’t even answer that. I’m obviously speaking to a child who thinks very highly of themselves simply because people don’t agree with their shite logic. I love to entertain Beings who have extremely dense brains so yes please show your friends who more than likely also share your shite logic (none of these insults had to be written if you just came to the discussion in good faith).

[@sozo5]

Brilliant men with brilliant insights. The conversation has moved me a bit toward the middle appropriately. What we stand to lose in the ideological war is something neither side wants. Finding that common ground and common goal to find agreement on could bring us closer to some resolution. We must preserve freedom at all cost in the process.

[@Artisticer]

Well said!

[@seekrengr751]

When you said "bring us closer to some resolution", with the end of the discussion fresh in my mind, immediately surfaced Jordan's observation of the other meaning of the word "resolution" in the sense he used it. It seems a lack of high resolution thinking cripples problem solving, in that shallow thinking leads to simplistic "solutions" like racial attribution. It would seem psychology shows real factors are typically much more personal. When Glenn Loury discusses issues from economic or sociological level, individual behaviors are aggregated with a corresponding lack of personal resolution; when Jordan Peterson looks at the issues from a psychological viewpoint, and even more so from a clinical viewpoint, the same issues dig deeper into individual motives and actions. Maybe the required complexity will be attained to enable real solutions to problems when more clinical insights are used to analyze societal behaviors. High resolution thinking for real problem resolution.

[@RyuuRider]

@@seekrengr751 So, put in layman's terms, precision of language and how deeply and broadly you analyze a problem are two important factors of problem-solving? It seems almost too obvious when put that way, though. :P But yes, strongly agreed. For example, the issues with "Social Justice" bullies: I have seen people saying we need more bullies in schools to combat the bullies already tyrannizing things. I believe what those people intend is for more *assertive* people with maturity and principle rather than just more bullies. Those kinds of statements can absolutely derail discussion due to the imprecise speech- or a lack of consideration for the problem and the consequences of their proposed solution to it.

[@jpjeon3143]

Why is going to the Middle necessarily the solution? There is, after all, something called the Middle Ground Fallacy.

[@jpjeon3143]

@@Mr196710 You're commenting this for a video in which Loury argues that formal theory is useful for aiding us in finding the fissures that lead to the failures of practice? Regardless, I don't quite understand what you're critiquing here. I'm saying that the Middle Ground isn't necessarily the answer, to which you are replying that we can't expect the elites to compromise to the Middle. In a sense, we're both in agreement, so why are you denigrating "academic mental gymnastics"? Or are you just simply taking issue that we reached the same conclusion via different ways -- that I'm engaging in intellectualism over your "common-sensical" approach? If I'm missing something, do let me know.

[@starbright5236]

Jordan, Sometimes I don't comprehend the complexities of your Topics but I'm addicted to learning and your intellectual conversations stimulate me. Thank you for being humble and thoughtful in your words. Thank you for saying and discussing topics that SHOULD be discussed. Plz keep up the good work and continue to stay strong amidst the critics.

[@Simon53188]

Honest conversations are bloody brilliant. Makes me happy.

[@saxon8981]

Blood

[@organisationxiv2927]

@@psychcowboy1 Oh look. Sour grapes.

[@tazldn6463]

Glenn Loury is one of the most important voices in the modern Western world and someone who ought to be listened to.

[@Freedom17762]

Cleaning my place while listening to the greatest conversations of our time. Thank you Jordan and Glenn.

[@agathachris9722]

Same

[@GiovanniV69]

This is an absolutely amazing conversation between two incredibly intelligent people. Very powerful conversation. And thankful to finally get all the way through and find a new intelligent and wise speaker; Glenn Loury.

[@billyv2210]

I'm an agnostic - but have to say God Bless these two gentlemen! Brilliant, insightful, relevant conversation between two geniuses that is the exact opposite condescending. Bravo!

[@michaelsullivan723]

Very excited for this. Glen is an insightful commentator and it's been really fun and interesting to see you delve a little bit more in economics. I will also echo the many requests for you to talk to Thomas Sowell and would highly recommend his book, A Conflict of Visions. I think you would find it deeply interesting.

[@grecojones]

Unfortunately, I think Sowell is on the decline cognitively.

[@michaelsullivan723]

@@grecojones Given that he's in his 90's his cognitive abilities have no doubt declined substantially but relatively recent interviews show that he's still sharper than most and unless his mental functioning has taken a dramatic turn for the worst, he still has a wealth of knowledge and insight to share with the world.

[@angourie444]

HELLO, I LOVE YOU LADY

[@angourie444]

@wendigo GET OUT OF HERE MATE

[@Collabcreatemarketing]

@@grecojones He’s still sound just speaks a little slower hey let’s remember he’s been around since ww2

[@SeleckPlays]

My only disappointment is that it's not longer. LOVED the discussion! Thank you Dr. Peterson and Dr. Loury!

[@seaslob2820]

Yup. It is like a great movie that you never want to end.

[@wingy200]

I think this exact thing about most discussions on JBP's channel. I love Joe Rogan's format of some conversations lasting 4 hours long, but I get it. The topics discussed can be mentally draining.

[@seaslob2820]

@@wingy200 It leaves you wanting more. Which means it is the Goldie Lox of podcasts. Just right!

[@jimsibley1651]

What a phenomenal interview - that was an astounding amount of serious and thoughtful conversation in a single go.

[@imperfectious]

Skepticism and pushback without insults or emotional outbursts. I'm as pleased to see these two blow past that bar as I am disappointed that the bar as been lowered to that level. Thank you, gentlemen.

[@seraph...4473]

Wonderful comment. Completely agree.

[@seraph...4473]

@Mamba No I think you just described the pareto principle perfectly. The reason that so few people are generating half of the output is that we dont have access to very many people that are even interested in the high level professions. So the few times the people that are interested and really really good at it coincide they have a massive bump in productivity.

[@seraph...4473]

@Mamba Nothing I said had anything to do with exploiting the workforce.

[@seraph...4473]

@Mamba what if they are being compensated appropriately for their productivity? Not saying they are, but what if?

[@imperfectious]

@Mamba More like "high productivity = better chance of surplus", which can be used to provide more goods and services to more people than low productivity would.

[@templar1229]

Truly looking forward to hearing more wise words from Jordan Peterson and Glenn Loury

[@David-uy4jz]

@@psychcowboy1 everything Peterson says is intelligent

[@iamlovingawareness2284]

@The Molecule FX boulder The only thing harder to watch than Jordan’s idiocy is a smug attention hungry “intellectual” who replies to dozens of comments to trigger his half wit fans. Makes my toes curl to see it. (and not in the good way)

[@iamlovingawareness2284]

@@psychcowboy1 Thomas the Train always tried his best. As he treaded uphill he was hopeful that he would make it to his destination. However, along the way he ran into a terrible dilemma. One of his wheels had broken. Thomas’ wheels kept spinning and spinning. The harder he tried the more overheated he became. Each push led him deeper and deeper into despair as he came to the realization that all his efforts were going to be in vain. Thomas couldn’t look at himself in the mirror after that. All that energy he poured into spinning his wheels turned into shame and self hatred. What he thought was in good fun became a black hole that sucked up his identity. Is this what he has become? Reduced to a broke machine whose wheels spin but never take him anywhere? Let’s hope Thomas can get some help. Maybe one day his wheels will spin properly. Maybe then his efforts will actually be worth something.

[@iamlovingawareness2284]

@@psychcowboy1 lol you’re cute.

[@djsparkyy]

"I'm not sure I understand the answer to the question, but I understand the question...." What a beautiful moment in this discussion! To not only be intelligent but to be self aware of your own ignorance about yourself AND to discuss it publicly is not a common trait.

[@JScottCee]

That trait is one of the guiding principles of the Age of Aquarius. Dig it, Flow it. ✨🌊

[@krystofon]

@@JScottCee Gee, it must take sooo big balls to say : i dunno. It escapes me how mediocrity can be so amazing for anyone.

[@JScottCee]

@@krystofon Balls balls balls balls balls balls balls balls balls balls balls STEEL balls. In public discourse, yes.

[@Unpopular_0pinion]

It amazes me that quality content like this is free and readily available to anyone with access to the Internet. What a time to be alive

[@Opalbird1]

Wow, Glens story of how his education blossomed made me so tearful. I also had a bent for math and also physics. When applying for a college to obtain an engineering degree, I was turned away even though I had top marks in high school, because I would be the only one of “my kind” and they thought i would be uncomfortable. That was 1974. In 1978, I tried again for a different course, was accepted, was the only one of “my kind” in the class. It was a short course 4 weeks in length, and as I expected I again excelled. In fact I finished my assignments so fast, that I helped and explained the course material to another student who was having difficulty on a regular basis. I achieved the top marks on all the exams given but at the end of the course, top student was given to the person I had been tutoring and I was told to be quiet and accept the results as they would give me a different award to make me happy along with my picture in a local paper. I was to never speak about the corse results or it would affect my career. I then applied to medical school, went for an interview and as soon as they saw me said to me “you will not be accepted to this medical school unless both of your parents are doctors. “. I asked if this was normal for all students and was told “no, only people of your kind”. What “kind” am I you ask? Female

[@TeaPourSixFour]

🫶🏻 Thank you for your testimonial story. The ‘70’s.. I am a female born in 1978. I hope your work has been more well-rewarded & respected since what you described.

[@annschrimsher5183]

I just want to say thank you for pushing yourself into a world that resisted you. You and other women like you have made it possible for women like me to have an amazing life and amazing opportunities. I can remember watching the Donahue show where women would come on and talk about how hard of a time they had in the business world. I am an electrical engineer starting in the 90's. I have never had a door shut to me. I have got almost every job I have ever applied for. My dad taught me how to negotiate, so I usually made more than my coworkers. I have no doubt that I would not have had the freedom in my career that I have had, had it not been for women like you. So again, THANK YOU!

[@matthbva]

Two of my favorite public intellectuals talking about stuff that matters. Glenn is an American national treasure; Jordan, a Canadian one. This is a dream come true. Thanks to both of you.

[@edwinamendelssohn5129]

@@psychcowboy1 he's interviewing here

[@bernardcotter5373]

It always warms me while listening to the great wisdom of Jordan and his great guests, thanks Professor. Wishing you and your guest good health.

[@michaelohair3715]

This is a beautiful exchange with the very remarkable Dr. Glenn Loury.

[@paddleed6176]

Love that you're talking with Dr. Loury.

[@chuksamajor3020]

An outstanding segment featuring two public intellectuals. Hearing Glenn discuss his very human struggles strengthened my respect for his accomplishments.

[@chuksamajor3020]

@@psychcowboy1 Haha. I guess that depends on your philosophical leanings.

[@erikaoliver2591]

@@zaphodbebop105 how did he lie about the bill? Let's see you back up your ramblings with facts and sources, preferably straight from the horses mouth. But don't worry, I won't be holding my breath.

[@erikaoliver2591]

@@chuksamajor3020 ignore these trolls, they just saw a little too much of themselves in the discussion about the problem of those with low IQ. Also, agree with your original comment. When you hear about someone's struggles, it's easier to see their humanity, it makes everything they say more engaging. That's what's missing in our virtual world.

[@chuksamajor3020]

@@psychcowboy1 I didn't hear much new ground in what they had to say about the topics they covered per se. Both had already covered most of the topics they discussed at length. It was the revelation that Glenn overcame personal demons before achieving his current prominence that resonated with me.

[@chuksamajor3020]

@@zaphodbebop105 I'd love for you to expand on the claim that JP lied about Bill C-16. But even if you did, it's a non sequitur.

[@stevehagan3362]

It’s so refreshing to hear Doc P assert with conviction the fact that the cathartic religious/spiritual experience is the only effective program of recovery from addiction “…no matter what people say…” I’ve always been curious as to how much time he spent investigating the AA 12 Step program of recovery (not the poorly facilitated pseudo talk therapy meetings that are offered as THE PROGRAM) and it’s unique spiritual journey guided by Jungian psychology principles. Being a recovered addict who was progressively drenched in whiskey and heroin (and many others) for over 30 years this was undeniably proven to me. Thanks Doc, your work has been a blessing as a direct extension of the AA Program!!! God bless you sir!!

[@VeganChefRon]

So fascinating to hear two brilliant people discussing complex issues without agenda. Two people wanting the best for people and referring to research and facts. Could listen to them all day long.

[@markemerson8399]

Jordan Peterson, I'm so happy that a person of your learning and intellect is speaking on these topics.

[@angourie444]

HELLO, I LOVE YOU LADY

[@workhorse7134]

He should also have on Taki contributors David Cole and Steve Sailor. Seems like he only talks to one skin colour when it comes to this topic which is disappointing however last few times I listened to Glenn he was finally coming around to the reality of the issue unlike his co-host who still will not accept reality and continues to wallow in the usual victim narrative.

[@markemerson8399]

@@psychcowboy1 Maybe not according to you, but ... yes.

[@patrykjaniak7042]

@@markemerson8399 IT was sarcasm, Peterson appears intellectual even in silence.

[@keirongillespie6913]

One of the best conversations I've heard from any two people in a long while.

[@ninatigi6713]

The fact that I listen to and sometimes even understand smart people makes me respect myself.😊👍♥️

[@TommyEngdahl]

Im proud giver of $1 a month since 2018 for such quality content. Can surely say, after divorce 2017, that without finding you 2018 and plowing your videos for 3 weeks in swedish hot summervacation, i would not have gotten myself out of PTSD from childhood abuse awakened by divorce. Thank you with all my heart Jordan❤

[@annottobay]

I can testify to the notion that academic types have very little encounter with people at the lower cognitive level. I passed an exam at 10/11 year old and went to a special high school, I basically only dealt with people from my high school until University. Once again in university my encounter was largely with my academic peers. I graduated and went into a government job at a technical level and then into banking and investment. In between I worked jobs as a teacher. At age 27 I left Banking and Investment and started to manage a manufacturing and distribution business, it was not until then I started to really meet people at the lower education level and it was a rude awakening. I might have read or heard about literacy level, and cognitive abilities etc. However, I did not really begin to encounter and have to engage with people that are really challenged mentally. I subsequently left that job and once again I was out of that world. I can only imagine people who from an early age are predominantly, working with mostly, intelligent people and continue that encounter into there early professional life and remain the same throughout their professional and social life. They can easily lose touch and will just not realize a side of society that you really do not know much about.

[@audreya8325]

Yes you are so right. Well meaning folks think they know what jobs my disabled son can do and what he should be paid without ever meeting much less working with people like him.

[@user-ml2iq7wj1o]

This was hands down one of my favorite interviews of the past year. Outstanding. Wish I could hit the like button 5 more times. I hope you two get to work together more in the future.

[@beaolmos2293]

@@psychcowboy1 Listen to 1:37:19 carefully, where the guest its explaining his view about the George Floyd's situation. And then later on, Peterson analytically synthesizes the view in a couple of sentences explaining how it is a 1:42:07 ..."careless conflation of levels of analysis. Because a high resolution of analysis of structural problems in the penal system and to cram that George Floy event in the same narrative it sort of bespeaks of indifferentiated thought..."-Peterson. And then they both point out about the danger of racializing crime events. And how some (low resolution) people use those narratives to continue their racial sentiments. Deep thought IMHO.

[@ayevaboo]

@@beaolmos2293 English is not my first language and alot of things is hard to understand. Could you please explain to me what they mean by resolution in people?

[@ActionAlligator]

@@ayevaboo By 'low resolution' or 'high resolution' people, they mean people that aren't looking at the full breadth or range of factors that contribute to any given outcome. So, for example, I can look at a statistic that women, as an entire gender, get payed less than men; a low resolution conclusion might be "well, the reason women make less than men overall is because men are sexist and they keep women from that capital"; comparatively, a higher resolution conclusion might be "well, the reason women make less than men overall is due to multiple factors, some of which may be sexism, but also may be due to the differences in interests between men and women, the much higher pressure on men to obtain (financial) status than women with regards to sexual success, the differences in education attainment by the sexes, the differences in pay negotiation abilities between the sexes, the differences in full-time vs part-time distributions among the sexes, and so on and so forth". High resolution attempts to account for ALL the factors whereas low resolution oversimplifies it. Did that help?

[@ActionAlligator]

I liked the conversation too, but I wish Jordan would interrupt less and allow Loury to talk more.

[@Vizaru]

the good news is that if you did click the like button five more times, you still liked the video!

[@davidkennedy6184]

Prof. Peterson’s explanation of the correlation between income inequality and male aggression/involvement in the illicit drug trade really hits home as I see it in my community.

[@AndyJarman]

I'm always quick to point this out, testosterone has the propensity to enable people to act in a recklessly assertive NOT aggressive manner. Reckless assertion appears to women to be (and probably is) threateningly aggressive. But to male peers, reckless assertion is 'rough and tumble' sparring. For example - antelope rutting make a lot of noise, but it doesn't end in the sort of damage you might anticipate from the violence of the action on display. It sorts the men out from the boys, and demonstrates which males are most likely to assert themselves when the herd is threatened by predation. I'm concerned this interpretation of banter, flashy display and ribaldry has been labelled 'aggeession' and the peer to peer understanding of the self imposed limitations of this behaviour (a 'clean' fight) has been lost. Perhaps this has happened because boys have fewer role models (Hollywood having replaced dad). Perhaps because women are assumed by default to by the courts to be more responsible parents that men - even after the boys begin entering manhood (aged 10 years?). Perhaps because women are now taking a more prominent role in public debate and policy creation and are higher in Trait Agreeableness and Trait Neuroticism. I do think the equating of assertion and recklessness with violence is a problem where young men resort to guns and knives instead of integrity restraint and bare knuckles to settle differences. The devouring mother archetype, versus Fight Club.

[@thestickninja]

@@AndyJarman Profound lucidity. Well stated. Thank you.

[@schuylergeery-zink1923]

Interesting… I’m a woman who is running for office. I see the place for assertion is in play - kids should explore and get rough and tumble and imagine. We can always agree to a fight if we want to as adults but that should be clear, bc my community many of us carry firearms. So we assume everyone has one. Treat everyone with respect and do not escalate a nonreciprocal situation.

[@emilianosintarias7337]

@@AndyJarman And perhaps because the economy has moved somewhat from industrial production to services and communicative workplaces like calls centers, restaurants, offices, shops etc (which are also mixed gender). This would advantage feminine attributes.

[@ThagSimmons69]

@@AndyJarman I think this might be linked to something in one of JP's older interviews. The breakdown of the family unit and the advent of smaller, often single-child households, with more diatant relatives seems to be reducing the ammount of socialization between the sexes at a young age. IE: More women in society that dont understand men very well due to a lack of male siblings and real/healthy father figures (leading to women being afraid of men, mis-identifying behaviors, or just being incapable of empathy because of the improper socialization), same thing with young men and sisters/fathers (sometimes mothers, but the lack of a peer of the opposite sex definitely feeds into the devouring mother archetype by limiting the socialization and example relationship to one with a power dynamic). Which becomes a self-perpetuating problem very quickly and breaks down social structures as it does. Because people raised in those circumstances are going to have a horrible time trying to properly socialize themselves and build families and are very likely to produce more children outside of a family structure as a result.

[@mcnyregrus]

Jordan has been going on many rants lately, so it's nice to see him again talk about such a factual topic with Glenn Loury, who's just as focused on the topic. And this episode was also in many ways a good compilation of the various points Jordan (and Glenn) has made on the topic.

[@stephencarlsbad]

I really like Jordans Guest, Dr Glenn Loury. He's convicted in his values yet flexible enough to adapt to more accurate, higher resolution data instructing him to shift his beliefs. I appreciate that level of authenticity and integrity.

[@H-4th]

I appreciate Dr Loury's honesty, humbleness and vulnerability. His discourse was heartfelt and impactful

[@andrewwood7303]

It wasn’t long ago that it was technologically impossible for so many of us to enjoy the meeting of minds at this exquisite level. So exciting to pay careful attention to every word and drink in the wisdom. To describe this as elating is an understatement. Bravo, gentlemen.

[@mygoditsfullofstars7220]

@@psychcowboy1 Again we agree!

[@sheilafield4545]

These podcasts are so incredibly important to educate people on critical thinking. Both of these great thinkers are coming from completely different backgrounds…yet both are still standing & thriving in the public realm!

[@fattyz1]

I love this guy! He has the most profound ability to use reason to engage anyone on a strictly rational level without having to pussyfoot. He can go hard and maintain his ability to reason and be reasonable. Thank you Dr. Peterson. Bravo!

[@mikeg3439]

I haven't had the name Pareto Principle in my vocabulary or education all my life, but I sure as hell observed it at work. Even a couple times when due to lack of ability, I was on the wrong side of the equation on it.

[@dougcarey2233]

Well mathematically speaking, you're always more likely to be on the wrong end of it than the right end. That's essentially why it sucks. A lot of the time it's really down to luck. The match that starts the campfire will always be the last one you strike, and it'll always be responsible for the majority of the heat/light produced. Unless it's defective, the match has little say in the matter.

[@shockshotz]

correct me if im wrong but i remember one movie that was talking about bees or something close to it, you need the lazy bees around to motivate the hard working bees to excel at what they do, if you removed the lazy bees then the hard working ones would just become lazy, this could be an entirely different thing but its the first thing that came to me when i heard it

[@56jasa]

​@@dougcarey2233 It's interesting that you use this metaphor. In context of the model of creativity as was also described in this video it's even more interesting. You know, the whole creative process. Making a huge amount of stuff or attempts and then eliminating the unsuccessful ones. This is also how evolution works with its mutations or how machine learning evolves. It's all the same thing, it appears. It's interesting if it's also this way at the level of whole societies. You mutate successful forms and the drastic majority is defective and unfit and die and the few better off lucky mutations work out. It's an interesting way to bridge together Pareto and the creative process at least in my opinion. Would be a bit humbling if all of humanities were based on mere serendipitous triumphs and tautological inferences from thereof.

[@Andantalas]

I'm less than 15 minutes in and loving Dr. Loury. This is AWESOME.

[@Andantalas]

@@gregkirk1842 Thanks, I just subscribed.

[@bradodilo7569]

The point about Jordan's response to Dr Glenn when he said..."it's the careless conflation of levels of analysis..." opened my world. Thanks, as always Jordan!

[@pelinoregeryon6593]

@@psychcowboy1 "said something that makes sense?" it's rare that he doesn't, so I'm guessing the answer to your question is yes.

[@danimal118]

@@psychcowboy1 your comments are always boring and idiotic. Why do you troll Peterson?

[@danimal118]

@@psychcowboy1 you're an ideological imp chasing someone around. You need something better to do. I've read many of your other posts and you are conceited and not worth listening to. You need to deal with your own b******* before you take someone else's on.

[@pelinoregeryon6593]

@@psychcowboy1 Meh, you're just a troll, I rattled your chain because I felt like playing, but you took to long to reply and the moment passed 😁🤗

[@jacoblehrer4198]

@@pelinoregeryon6593 You respond like a leftist

[@romeazn]

I’m so glad you interview Professor Glenn. One of the brilliant mind in our time.

[@jimmontgomery7950]

What an awesome discussion between two intelligent people who listened to each other and work to an understanding. This needs to be emulated more in not only academia but in all parts of society.

[@carpenanne]

I have a 30 year old son with an intellectual disability. It is difficult, I am understandably concerned about his future and I have no answers. Love your youtube and all these discussions.

[@sanctuary2103]

Mr.’s Peterson and Loury, thank you both. In this dystopian informational vacuum we currently live in it’s invigorating to listen to two people have a discussion in the simple tenets of good faith. Please get together, get to know each other and treat us again soon. To Dr. Loury, I’ve become quite an admirer of your intellect, your boldness, resilience and continued adherence to a principle of sound, empirical thought. “Make an argument!” should be printed on the free t-shirts you include with the first 100 signed copies of your soon to be completed book. Please continue to be bold for us - we need you- and worry less, if at all, about what the perennial ‘they’ will think. Remember what Mr. Lewis said about omnipotent moral busybodies. You’ve even managed to make our good friend Professor McWhorter seem more relaxed and amiable and less Niles Crane so anything is possible. (Brother McWhorter we love you, too.). To Dr. Peterson, what a journey you’ve traveled and continue to. Please remember to take care of yourself and your family as you deal with your new and ever evolving status in the socialsphere. I listen to you whenever I have the chance just for your insights, intellect and passion which are ever thoughtful and alluring. You remind me of another clinician whose pioneering work and singular humanity are reminiscent of yours - James F. Masterson, look him up. I don’t know your opinion of the object-relationists but I felt Dr. Masterson was among the best, brilliant and open hearted. I’m late to the game but enjoying 12 Rules. Stick around because we need you, too. All the best and keep rumbling, gentlemen. ;)

[@juandirection8820]

I really like Glenn, he seems like a good guy who is able to have tough conversations, I respect that. Another great get by Jordan, looking forward to hearing this

[@Zulu4impi]

Sir your relentless pursuit of truth is inspiring and greatly appreciated. God Bless you for all you do.

[@jonbaker9804]

This has made my night. May have understood 10% but great to be able to listen to great minds share ideas. Learned so much.Thank you guys.

[@Sacarat]

I have to pause it and think every so often (or more).

[@bradsmith6966]

Thats because only 10% of it actually makes sense

[@X.Calibur]

This is a lecture or lesson like everything else in an educational institutions. No one grasps it fully from the start unless you already familiar with all the concepts, lingo, logos and definitions. You need to take notes and listen several times in order to fully grasp what these two gentlemen are trying to say.

[@mike8595]

@@bradsmith6966 mah vague criticisms

[@michealfults]

This was an outstanding conversation. I love the way Dr. Laury asked the questions that helped Dr. Peterson clarify and elaborate on many of the things he's been saying for years. Both have a very unique and powerfully informed perspective, yet both were completely open to the others insights. Jordan is such a charismatic person, he often needs someone to balance that by questioning the details and subtleties of the points he is making. I agree that Jordans perspective on certain ideas might serve to reinforce inequality, but that's not his intention. And no modesty isn't necessarily the answer. Before we can hope to solve many of these enormous difficulties, we really do have to stare them right in the face. He says this in a different way. "That we don't take the problems seriously enough." He's not attempting to reinforce these issues, although many may view or even use his statements that way. He's simply trying to clarify the details, no matter how socially unacceptable or troubling they may be. Thank you for this very moving discussion.

[@PAPAWISCARTEL]

@@psychcowboy1 what a poor soul you have hiding behind a fake identity. It's saddening to see someone like you who finds purpose in life by being resentful and deceitful. Go get some help man!

[@JayMill24]

Simply LOVED this talk. Both are very intelligent and easy to listen to. I could watch this every day.

[@rmfyiffa]

Thank you gentlemen for sharing this invaluable conversation. The fact that you can discuss these complexities with such detail, candor, and fluidity gives me hope that we can move forward inch by inch to clarify, improve and better yet resolve our social challenges one by one going forward together. Safe journey... Prayers and blessings... Continued success!

[@Remigrator]

I have been preaching the Pareto principle all my life. Thanks for speaking my mind.

[@michaelcasey7057]

There were perhaps more points of agreement than Jordan realized and so he spent more time clarifying and defining terms than was actually needed. I'd like to see them together again, where then can skip the first principles calibration and get right to it. Glenn is a powerhouse thinker and at his very best when he is ranting a little. Let's see round two gentlemen.

[@ricardodominguez2883]

the spirituality conversation was AWESOME 👏🏻 was not expecting it and genuinely enjoyed Dr. Loury’s testimony with regards to getting over his addiction problem

[@superunknown70]

Listening to the conversation between the two of you was a pleasure. I'm thankful for the food for thought it has provided.

[@masescranton9630]

Thank you Dr. Loury. You are an inspiration for one to realize that we can learn, learn , learn. Change our position and or angle of thought. What a personal story of overcoming life's trials and tribulations. Keep on rocking the world. Our nation needs souls like yours.

[@nedhill1242]

Glenn & John have a great rapport and their bi-weekly conversations should be mandatory viewing by high schools.

[@pkirkham25]

In this day of short tweets, memes etc. it is a wonder, a privilege, to see two articulate intellectuals have a level-headed, sane and respectful conversation. I'm not sure how many of the "views" counted by KZbin actually watched the entire exchange, but for those that did, I know that they will have appreciated the quality of discussion that ensued.

[@Bader1940]

I love Glen's story about AA. Thank you. It saved me too.

[@coastcity7029]

Not familiar with Dr. Loury but he really knocked it out of the park in this conversation. Love how he speaks honestly and understandably

[@mike8595]

Take a look at his channel. He's great.

[@Hellyers]

If you like this you'll love his channel... he's brilliant. His podcasts with John McWhorter are my favourite.

[@greent26tube]

This was incredibly insightful and so fun to listen to you two converse. You're both so respectful and open to all of these tough topics... it's beyond refreshing to witness your professionalism and personal maturities. I can't wait to check out all of Dr. Loury's content! He's so deep in his thought processes; I can't get enough.

[@TheShootist]

I've been anticipating this conversation with pleasure for too long.

[@mpelgudmir]

Don't know how I missed this one until now, but this is such a fun pairing. I feel like Jordan is at his best when he's talking to someone who knows more about a subject than he does, and I could listen to Glenn Loury talk about making a peanut butter sandwich for an hour and a half.

[@donparmesan1012]

refreshing to see someone not being afraid to talk about the reality of inherent differences in people's intelligence, abilities, temperaments, talents, etc., and recognising that inequality between humans is not only real, but inevitable. The key question is then how do we best learn to find a way to deal with it?

[@blackbeltjones2903]

@Andrew Davis what work is done? Acknowledging common sense notions about biological differences is a start, not an actual solution. There's a large swath of rightists who stubbornly deny the necessity of social safety nets and social services to help ease the strain of exactly these differences. What detractors want to claim is a wholesale establishing of an artificial egalitarianism is really simply about helping people patch up their damages and their faults, so to speak. Facilitate the ability to succeed rather than fester. You don't leave people behind. Cold and cynical dog eat dog individualism isn't the solution.

[@the2ndcoming135]

😂

[@yournewbestfriend8149]

@@blackbeltjones2903 How many unemployed/homeless people can we put you down for? I'll arrange for them to be delivered at your doorstep. You sound like a very generous person.

[@blackbeltjones2903]

@@yournewbestfriend8149 I work barely above minimum wage and still donate to my local food bank on top of whatever taxes it is I'm paying for government services. This is all ultimately a collective effort, as anything in a civilized society essentially is. So what point you think you're making, I'm not sure. There are ways to facilitate the upheaval of social disorder without personally housing and sponsoring down and out individuals. It's an unrealistic proposition for most people.

[@Dogdrum]

Such a deeply fascinating conversation! Two highly respectable intellectual giants showing how it's truly done.

[@Cander617]

Man... discussions like this really give me hope. Thank both of you for your wisdom it's sorely needed and greatly appreciated.

[@jdpapillion9447]

My brain And heart are overwhelmed with facts, figures & insight. Awesome convo everyone needs to hear. Thank you both. Next, I am on to search for Glenn Lowry’s channel.

[@lougaru2445]

Dr. Loury's push back on Jordan's IQ statistics was my favorite part of the discussion bc it brought out a better discussion than simply reciting statistics. His back story is also very interesting .. I had never heard of him before. A terrific guest

[@musicbyterence4655]

And yet they avoided touching on race and IQ which is the controversial section of The Bell Curve and really the elephant in the room of the whole conversation.

[@nowhre]

@@musicbyterence4655 charles murray bell curve has been debunked and there is no such thing scientifically of "Race"

[@mikevanderwolf8575]

I appreciate your courage and honesty Glenn. L, thank you.

[@Ifraneljadida]

This was absolutely fantastic. I love when the guest disagrees with Jordan because it provides me both perspectives on a given issue.