Islam, Tolerance, and Rights, by Craig Biddle

[@luketerry2006]

Thanks Craig. I grew up in a Christian fundamentalist home that helped me in many ways but I ultimately left because of its disintegration with reason. I've been looking at objectivism seriously for a few months and its amazing how much work I have to do to unlearn the primary of consciuosness impulse I have

[@gillesandfio8440]

Beautiful.

[@tsummerlee]

"...The flaw must be a dominant theme of the person, coloring much of what he does or feels or says...It is not like the fundamental and pervasive irresponsibility of an emotionalist who cannot carry out any long-range plan or sustain a commitment; who never gives thought to the consequences of his action; who lives in chronic dependence on others, without concern for the havoc he wreaks in their lives. The emotionalist deserves our moral censure as a person." D. Kelley, PhD. Truth & Toleration

[@tsummerlee]

I note that Biddle had little trouble putting rubber to the road with racism, never judging that concept outside of an individual's extreme practice of it, but what I'm having trouble with is the obvious spectrum of moral judgments ignored in this video. Kelley's idea that morality exists on a scale of degrees is appealing in this regard.

[@tsummerlee]

This is what constitutes an ARI student these days? How embarrassing for them.

[@muckypup595]

Can't help but think of Judge Dredd "I am the law"

[@tsummerlee]

Not at all vague. I'm quite familiar with how excellent minds can fall into traps of moral intrinsicism.

[@cooljool1]

I mean that ideas aren't people. Ideas don't have free will, people do and an individual can be morally worse - or better -- than his professed ideas. The ideas and the person should be evaluated on their own terms; then and only then can you determine how much of a man's actions are a function of his professed ideas, or of his inconsistency with them.

[@muckypup595]

Very articulate.

[@grayman771]

And, yes the Spanish inquisition did start to ferret out hidden muslims, what it evolved into is something else.

[@jrbethke]

define "off base". I'm curious..... off base of what? To whom?

[@tsummerlee]

Craig, you're putting religion in a vacuum, treating it as if it exists independently of the people who adhere to it. Either we judge religious people as evil, or we don't, but you can't have it both ways.

[@luketerry2006]

Judge any epistemology on its adeherence to reason

[@grayman771]

And those are the teaching of the koran, hadiths, sura.

[@tsummerlee]

Basically, no, he isn't. And it's Kelley, not "Kelly." Biddle's characterization of "tolerance" here is a far cry from anything Kelley has ever theorized. Kelley holds, as did Rand, that consciousness is limited. Acknowledgment of that limit is the basis of "moral tolerance" as a theory, not the disparagement Biddle presents here. Do yourself a favor and read Truth and Toleration for yourself. Accepting claims (and veiled definitions) on faith isn't a practice of Integrity!

[@tsummerlee]

Indeed, and Peikoff has been judged, by me, to be off base.

[@patrickhaney2680]

wait a second, if it is really true that people of one faith cannot judge teachings of another faith... why is it that muslims are quite capable of judging Christians? Or Hindus?

[@praapje]

Hitler was indeed Catholic, but he did not commit his crimes in the name of Christianity. Just for power and because of madness, I guess. The Spanish Inquisition was first and foremost for power (one religion is easier to control), but indeed was in the name of Catholicism. Though not based on the teachings.

[@tsummerlee]

"Technically not Muslims" says who? Are you seriously making a subjective, No True Scotsman assertion? Because that's exactly how it reads. Talk about irrational. Sorry, but I can't use the moral standards of a moral subjectivist to determine whether or not they're "irrational." Look, ma! I'm making a moral judgment!

[@LibertarianRealist]

An individual's right to practice Islam within a free society doesn't entail an unlimited, open-ended right of Muslims from unfree societies to migrate into and infiltrate free societies.

[@jrbethke]

Says the man who judged. Pot. Kettle. Black. I'm curious, tell me what you do know that has not been stated in this video?

[@jrbethke]

You are wrong. You are attempting to smuggle in the notion that "moral tolerance" is outside the limits of consciousness. Wrong. In fact, evil Islam and those that support it - can be refuted by anyone with half a brain. And the video above shows it. The only limit to consciousness is the limit that is self-inflicted by ignoring facts and refusing to think--- which is original sin/harikari you are committing tsummerlee.

[@cooljool1]

you have to differentiate between ideas and people. while the islamic faith is irrational individual muslims may or may not be depending on what extent they transcend their own religious ideas :)

[@lerguner]

I wonder if you have any real idea about Islam. What a great pity if all you know stems from biased theories put forth by those reacting to acts of terror. Did you know that one of the Ottoman Sultans granted asylum to Spanish Jews fleeing from the Spanish Inquisition, which was not started to ferret out Muslims, but to annihilate all who were not Catholics? There are excellent translations of the Qu'ran; read one!

[@lerguner]

Judge not lest ye be judged! Especially on topics you know noothing about!

[@grayman771]

a disgusting myth.

[@jrbethke]

define "evil". define "vacuum". define "adhere to it". you are throwing around vague undefined concepts like cheap candy at a 4th of July parade.

[@grayman771]

Don't compare Christianity and islam, as far as "faith" is concerned. They are not the same. Jesus was observed to be resurrected. He came back from the dead, and was witnessed by hundreds of people. That is why Christianity spread so fast. islam is a myth.

[@luketerry2006]

I don't think you want to use reason to defend the Bible. The flood, Adam and Eve, the story of Moses, healings, walking on water, virgin conception, etc are all anti reason

[@PabloAlvestegui]

LOL, he was observed ha, ha, by you? Jesus probably didn't even exist.

[@grayman7208]

@@PabloAlvesteguimoron, don't be stupid. it was observed by the people who wrote about it.