It all fell apart when I realized the Jesus of history was NOT the Christ of faith - Laura Alcala

Today I spoke with Laura Alcala, who grew up into a devout Catholic believer but fully deconverted as the truth claims of Christianity fell apart.
We touched on many topics, including:
• Growing up in the Catholic church on both cultural and personal levels.
• Being traumatized as she attended a poorly lit church with gory statues that scared her as a child to the point that she had nightmares.
• Hearing nonstop messages of being very bad and so guilty that she needed salvation from god to be forgiven and go to heaven.
• Feeling the love of Mother Mary more than of Yahweh and Jesus.
• Going through the sacraments, such as Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist, Penance, etc.
• Having a strong faith in god and feeling his presence everywhere.
• Thinking that the holy Catholic church was the one true church.
• Being shocked when she learned about the many varieties of Protestant beliefs.
• Not having Bible reading ever emphasized to her.
• Being astonished at the purity culture issues in Evangelical Christianity.
• Getting married with the strong expectation of raising their kids as Catholics.
• Realizing that the historical Jesus was completely different from the Christ of faith.
• Raising her children without the constraints and traumas of Christianity.
Thanks to Laura for sharing her story and insights!
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Thanks!
--Tim
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Ending music by Kazuya / Eyal Raz, "Friends"
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• Friends
_________________________________________
If you are facing emotional distress, please call 911 or the National Suicide Hotline
1-800-273-8255.

[@lauraalcala1759]

It was an honor to be interviewed by Tim and I forgot to apologize for my english which fails me sometimes 😅

[@RobertCharles-i1k]

Your English was very clear and well articulated . The mixture of your wonderful personality and all of the different and important points that you mentioned made this an amazing interview. It's obvious that you've done a lot of research and are quite well versed on the topic. Thank you for sharing! 🙏

[@FoursWithin]

​@@Jesuslordoflords-y4m The Bible is a cult guidebook. It's narrative is a devil's lie.

[@jon6815]

@@Jesuslordoflords-y4m Jesus Idolization Cult is merely that. It went mainstream by a combination of scaring the shit out of people with threats and promising them rewards. This scam is the epitome of corruption in human society. You may be corrupt and lacking integrity but you will surely go down as a top idolater.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

Your English is fine, and your Catholic perspective is informative and valuable

[@Venusbabe66]

Thank you, Laura, for sharing your story. ❤ If you want a great, easy starting point for educating your children and yourself about another secular means of dealing with our natural human existential angst, is to listen to The School of Life channel by Alain De Botton. All the best! Cheers from Australia.🇦🇺

[@larryreid1332]

What a lovely sweet guest. Thank you Tim, for having Laura share her story. So, so relatable, especially the part about her missing the community and comfort that comes with pretending.

[@RobertCharles-i1k]

What a wonderful and lucid guest. Thank you for this beautiful interview, Thank you both! 🙏

[@TrevonFoxxx]

Loved this, I never had a single understanding of Catholicism growing up and she was so insightful and very lovely, I’m wishing her great joy and prosperity in her deconversion

[@thanevakarian9762]

I’d double check some of her claims about Catholicism. Pretty sure purgatory is still part of their doctrine. Also Mexican Catholicism isn’t always the same as the rest. Do your own research to be safe.

[@RMG148]

Wonderful interview! Thank you! 🙏 Such a Beautiful lady. I am so glad that you found peace. Sending Peace, Love, & Blessings to both of you & your families. 💚🙏💚

[@Eyesopeningheartrealigning]

Great job both of you. Laura educated me about Catholicism more than I already knew 😅❤ The conversation was so interesting!! Thank you Laura and Tim 😊

[@carrieokieOG]

I really appreciate this testimony and story with a catholic perspective. There is a lot of trauma coming from this church as well. Fantastic insight into Catholicism.

[@Bever71]

Her story sounds a lot like mine. I’m not Catholic but it was those people like James Tabor, Reza Aslan, Bart Ehrman and others that educated me about the development of early Christianity. I have to say the curiosity seed was already there and that made me want to listen to these scholars.

[@brianharper1611]

For me it just started to sound like fiction at a certain age. My view of reality as a teenager did not match what I learned in church.

[@MrsBridgette2012]

I was raised Baptist and I can understand the nightmares brought on by church teachings. We would be shown movies on the rapture and hell. I couldn’t watch “The Passion” either, I never will. I avoid all horror movies to this day. I enjoyed hearing about the Catholic Church practices because I didn’t know much about it. Thank you for sharing.

[@brianharper1611]

I was raised Catholic and her experienced matched mine, though I was more of a troublemaker in church and was never a devour follower. I believed in God/Jesus, but it was more just a background fact about reality for me rather than a way of life. I prayed, but not that often. I don't even remember ever going to confession, but I probably did. I am actually a big fan of The Passion of the Christ. I think it is great filmmaking and the story still fascinates me, probably in part because I was raised Catholic.

[@DrPaoloR]

The title is a powerful summary of the great awakening, which many of us have experienced.

[@juliuscorazo5113]

Amazing and brutally honest interview. Being a Catholic all my life, not as religious now but more cultural, I fully agree with Laura’s assessment about the Church, its dark history and its doctrines. Thanks to Laura and Tim for such an insightful discussion on Christianity’s tumultuous history and constantly evolving Theology. Nothing wrong with your English Laura. You were quite articulate actually and funny. 🙏😂🙏

[@henrim9348]

Great interview. Amazing guest.

[@kevinbalmer-dw2ms]

Great stuff again Tim!!

[@ast453000]

About the priests etc. who must know this, many simply don't. As Tim pointed out, if you go to the "right" schools, you can get highly trained in this material and never learn the facts. In other cases, people know the facts, but they do mental gymnastics to keep believing what they want to believe. I know people who have memorized parts of the Bible, but they don't understand the plain text of what they have memorized. Also, once someone's salary depends on their believing a certain thing, it is even more difficult to get them to see anything else.

[@elizabethmelendrez8134]

Hi, i was a catholic too! They don't say that babies.go to hell, they say that babies go to a place called limbo or something like that. I only baptize one of my daughters, i have four girls, i no longer belive and neither any of my daughters. My daughters never liked going to church so i wouldn't take them anymore.

[@tonymiller3788]

You described exactly my feelings sitting in church now. During the preaching I sit there thinking that's not true and that's not true and look around at all the sheep. It's not fun for me though. I feel sad for humanity and aggravated to the point I can't keep my mouth shut and start contradicting everything outloud under my breath.

[@cosmicviewer477]

Wonderful interview. Thank you!

[@Stephanie-ni6zc]

So interesting to hear about the differences in the Catholic Church.

[@Lenergyiskey358]

Thank you. You are a beautiful lady and I'm sure you will be fine with your children and explaining it to them. what a beautiful gift you are giving them, the power to be themselves 💜.

[@totonow6955]

A wonderful person with an enchanting laugh and twinkle in her eyes

[@RobertCharles-i1k]

Very well said!

[@JustJT-j6h]

Funny story Tim. I was brought up Church of England in Australia. In my child’s mind communion was like half time in the football. The adults went up and got the equivalent of a drink of water and an orange quarter - and I got respite from standing, sitting, kneeling, singing and saying prayers. Then I started realising the second half of the football match was much shorter than the first half. From that point onwards I had real trouble playing the game in the first half - bring on halftime - bring on the final whistle!!!

[@bobbarron1920]

I am a cradle Catholic and I was well and truly indoctrinated as a child. That indoctrination kept me in the church for 60 years because I inexplicably never questioned it. I finally had an awakening and realized that all religion is a relic of the Bronze Age and is total mythological BS. I am just sorry it took me so long to wake up. Growing up, I split time between an Eastern Rite church (SS. Cyril & Methodius) and a Roman Catholic Church (St. Joseph). I will say that the Eastern Rite church was filled with iconography and was quite impressive. The choir there was sublime even though they sang largely in Ukrainian. I have many memories from those days, but I am glad I am out from under the nonsense.

[@voxpopuli348]

I was 55 when I finally realized NO religion was for me. Raised RC. Tried Kabbalah, Episcopal, Orthodox. My historical and archeological research led me out if it .

[@DavidandCharla]

1:16:00 I've been horrified and traumatized by those images also and it never made any logical sense to me. Great interview!

[@amawordie8633]

Yes Ex Catholic here The priest reads the Bible passage during mass and that's basically it

[@TheMahayanist]

Eastern Orthodox is similar. Orthodox are encouraged to read the Bible more than Catholics, but I bet most just listen to the priest's reading and sermon.

[@Venusbabe66]

Exactly the same in the Orthodox Church. The masses (99%) have been indoctrinated so well to automatically trust the authority of the priests to interpret the "word of God", to the point that the religion is woven into the culture and nationality of the people, so much that the believers cannot separate the Church from their culture - especially the Greek, Macedonian, Armenian and Russian Orthodox Churches. It's so sad because it truly is holding back the evolution of the populace by keeping them ignorant of the facts and true history of Christianity.

[@FoursWithin]

According to recent polling only about 15-20% of regular attending church going Christians (of any denomination) read the Bible. The rest let someone in authority tell them about it.

[@jon6815]

The system is rigged to keep power in the hands of the priest/church. That's why the Pope declared a death sentence on the first guy to print the bible. You just can't make this stuff up.

[@abelbabel8484]

@@FoursWithin That explains so much.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

When you care about truth, Santa Claus for grownups will never be enough.

[@mikecara8181]

No rational person believes in Santa…. All rational people bel in Jesus

[@bradleesargent]

The real Santa was a bishop in turkey who gave money to the poor something that the catholic church has done more than any other organization and has been doing it for almost 2000

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

@mikecara8181 most people believe some Jesus existed. So did Julius Caesar. Both have ancient documents claiming they rose from the dead.

[@mikecara8181]

@@uncleanunicorn4571 Can you give me the source material that says J Caesar rose from the dead

[@bradleesargent]

@@uncleanunicorn4571 but the point is compare the generosity of the catholic church helping, teaching, feeding, and housing more than any other organization on the face of the planet and have been doing it for 2000 year. Compare that with any atheistic country like North Korea, or China, or Cuba.

[@Targeting-Must-End]

AT 1:27:00 is where the guest (Laura Alcala) gets into what the title is about (It all fell apart when I realized the Jesus of history was NOT the Christ of faith) Very honest and genuine. Also a logically sound argument. My view on this "cool" trendy subject (deconversion): Always mind the separate topics 1. Bible was written/canonized by humans/men. Written/frozen in the early centuries. Translated from a different language. Hard to tell the intent of the original authors (not the pen names). They might not have known that their writings would be compiled into 1 book. 2. Jesus has not been proven BEYOND DOUBT (i.e. at the same standard of ALL OTHER MAJOR HISTORICAL FIGURES that even came before him) to have 100% undisputed historical BIOGRAPHY. i.e. Much easier to prove Plato, Socrates, Josephus actually existed. 3. MUST NOT CONFUSE bible/Jesus being factually/historically questionable as proof that God DOES NOT EXIST. i.e. proving Sequence A to be historically non factually does not prove Sequence B to ALSO be false, despite them being heavily correlated. Proving The non existence of God or that God does not exist is IMPOSSIBLE.

[@totonow6955]

For those of us that have gone through this, it does not seem at all like a "cool trendy topic".

[@subcitizen2012]

The real trendy and cool thing is patronizing people. Never goes out of style or demand. Can't disprove that either.

[@RobertCharles-i1k]

@targeting, Thank you

[@Targeting-Must-End]

@@totonow6955 My comments came across in the wrong manner. Trendy because the spread of the movement is 1) due to the internet/social media (decentralizing subject matter authorities) 2) Honestly the topic has picked up speed since around 2020. More or less inline with the other trendy modern topics, all other non religions conspiracies being SLOWLY proven to be factually correct. All that remain is to prove 100% that the human race was engineered by Extraterrestrial (not evolution, not God).

[@Targeting-Must-End]

@@LastCall534 My strong believe is that paranormal experiences are "ARTIFICIALLY induced". Induced by stimulating the brain. Much the same way that many people who take psychedelic drugs, mushrooms or herbs, have some outer body experiences. Paranormal Experiences (my crazy conspiracy) are caused by electro magnetic, sonic, energy weapons. i.e Similar technology to "Havana Syndrome" but used to mislead a target. Simple question: Why do most people who have paranormal experiences NOT become geniuses that solve every day practical problems here on earth?

[@rebeca9658]

Amiga!! no tenía idea!! Te abrazo con todo mi cariño, muchas felicidades por la estupenda entrevista!

[@lauraalcala1759]

Te quiero!!!

[@tulpas93]

I was raised Catholic too! So glad I got out at 15! Good luck to all those who have made it out or are in the process! ❤❤❤

[@patrickkeyes5916]

Catholics still teach that Purgatory is real. They put an end to the teaching of limbo.

[@Julia_P.]

Thank you for your comment. This is true and was exactly what I wanted to write. All the best to you!

[@Flyspray420]

Great interview! thanks for all the stories!

[@Johnwick-wi8zw]

Great show guys .really enjoyed it .❤❤❤💪💪💪

[@billybobwombat2231]

I thank the catholic nuns and the clergy for giving me the gift of freedom from religion, they didn't even know they gave it to me, weirdos

[@Venusbabe66]

Lol!😂

[@karinadsouza4929]

😂

[@Jemawin]

I don’t entirely share your sentiment. My deconversion started with a most extreme hell-fire sermon at a novena service when I was 22. For years afterward I fantasized telling off that priest (whom I didn’t know), scolding him “look what you did.”

[@JamesCavender-me6ei]

Nun has to be the most despicable life choice in existence, nothing is more of an assault to natural human life

[@billybobwombat2231]

@Jemawin we've all got our stories about the weirdos , my deconversion started in grade 4 when a brother giving us religious education smashed the kid in front of me in the nose, broke it blood everywhere, all for dropping the lid on his desk and it made a bit of a bang , he was back next week and acted like nothing had happened, a sequence of weido events over the next few years made me know I wanted nothing to do with it.

[@CharlotteLeviere]

Thank you door having an ex Catholic on your show Tim, I could relate to everything she said.

[@lauraalcala1759]

I am so glad, this is what my main focus was 😊. Not many catholic deconvertion stories out there right?

[@thunderbird3694]

I was baptized 3 times! As infant with holy water by Lutheran Church, as teen in shallow pool on stage by Foursquare Church and as adult in lake by Baptist Church

[@Loenthall88]

Well it's a pretty safe bet that if it didn't take after three times I doubt that it's gonna take at all. Stay dry. :)

[@iw9338]

Im really angry finding out ive been lied to 😮

[@Lenergyiskey358]

Me too. I'm still feeling it. Slowly letting that go.

[@carolebingham7262]

This is absolutely horrendous cruelty child abuse

[@carolebingham7262]

Thank you

[@gerardmcbryde3156]

The half way house between purgatory and hell was limbo ! If I’m remembering correctly. Ex catholic here

[@srich7503]

May have been depicted that way but certainly not the teaching of the church. Nope!

[@disneybunny45]

I broke up with my boyfriend of 2 years because he got really serious with his Catholic faith. That made it very clear that our beliefs (or lack thereof on my part) differ so significantly that we could never marry. I don't know if i want kids, but I know that I could never raise them in the Catholic church or have them with a father who thought that the gay people were "inherently promiscuous." I was heartbroken because the man I loved refused to be intimate with me because it was sinful and he was ashamed that we had sex before marriage.

[@loretomazzola403]

I love how she says that when she prayed she knew no-one was there listening on the other side BUT it helped only her and not what she was praying for.

[@timmygibsonkc]

Good stuff! Though I grew up Evangelical (Pentecostal) Christian, I had many friends who were devoted to their Catholic faith. Oddly I had always thought that Catholic beliefs were weird, go figure! 😂

[@gladysbatten822]

I find that the RC depiction of Mary precisely fits into heteronormative and complimentarian views of women in the patriarchy. The virgin Mary "takes care of the problem" of women, and keeps them "in their place" in regards to very traditional feminine archetypes...easier to imagine the woman as HR, not the CEO. She's the nurturing, detail-oriented divine parent. I propose that ultimately everyone suffers within this paradigm. The important "man" can't aford to take time away from warring against "evil" to pay attention to the fleeting feelings of a child. And then those children grow up to make war.

[@Evangeline-tr2hm]

I can't finish this video in one sitting it is very long story before it gets to what the title said. I watched this last night and fell asleep one fourth of the video. Then when I woke up early in the morning and continued watching while I'm fixing my coffee and I'm just drinking coffee for now cause I'm watching this again I'm.just a little bit away in the middle of the video. But, one thing we are both raised as Roman Catholic as a baby. My parents were both Catholic and so with the rest of the family in both sides. My father at 15 years old studied the bible in Latin language. I will stop watching again and continue next time. To cut the story short, I have awaken that salvation is individual. Jesus can't do anything to save the world. I have read different versions of the bible from cover to cover and it contradicts each other.

[@karenbehymer3634]

Wonderful discussion.

[@ml5554]

Insightful to hear of this catholic experience. I'm raised within a (dutch) reformed church, moderate but orthodox in teaching. I can't relate to any extreme or weird things i hear sometimes from other (ex-)christians. Maybe some see me as biased but i still think the reformed position and approach in it's basis seems quite balanced compared to some other christian streams. (biblecults left aside). I understand a lot of objections, wich fundamentalists seem to ignore, but a materialistic worldview doen't attract me. However one should always follow mind and consience, even if this leads away from religion.

[@DJTheTrainmanWalker]

Frankly I came to the conclusion years ago: that Paul the liar's notion of the 'Christ' has done irreparable harm to the legacy of Yeshua Ben Yusef. I strongly suspect Yeshua was banging on about the golden rule at least as much, if not more than 'the kingdom'. And the key narrative of his life was likely that he was willing to die for his friends... Which is profoundly corrupted if we imagine the dude was 'god' incarnate. Not least cos then we get into the doublethink of the trinity.

[@rainbowkrampus]

I dunno, most fringe cult leaders are creeps and/or weirdos. They often have some kind of personality disorder or mental illness or neurological condition which leads them to be unstable yet highly charismatic and influential to people who are primed to seek out attention. If there was a Jesus, he probably would've been a lot like Paul. They were both fringe cult leaders after all.

[@jon6815]

Very succinctly put! Right on!

[@ChuckBaxter-sv2tn]

Yea exactly the Roman Catholic Church empire is the mother church from where all the Sunday worship protestant denomination rooted out of and according to the Sabbath keepers, sabbath begins Friday sundown ends Saturday sundown so Rome ordered Constantine to switch the Sabbath to Sunday worship. And along with the pagan holidays and going on the Gregorian calendar 🗓️ instead of going on the Hebrew calendar and keeping the Holy Days!But I am in the process of recovering from religion and using critical thinking 🤔 kinda late in the game at 50 yrs of age but I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world 🌍🌎. Christians come up with all kinds of ways to love humanity each other or how we feel based on feelings!. There's a verse in the Bible that says I believe it was Peter to Jesus or yuesha hebrew name, Peter asked Jesus how do we love you and Jesus replied and said if you love me Peter keep my commandments and how by keeping the Sabbath!. Stay safe, stay healthy and enjoy the remaining of your days. Love and light to you Mr. Tim and Mrs. Laura always 💯.💪🍷🤔🌍🦉

[@monus782]

There’s many similarities I have with her story, I also grew up in Mexico but it was in a region almost right next to the U.S border in the late 90’s and early 2000’s and I rarely saw the bloody Baroque images she mentioned and we never had those Passion plays (the region she mentioned has a reputation for being the Mexican equivalent to the Bible Belt except it’s hardcore Catholics instead of Baptists, it’s referred to as El Bajío) but I watched Mel Gibson’s movie when it came out and it just sort of became a tradition in our family to watch it again in Good Friday and many theaters would have it many years afterwards around that season. So thankfully my childhood was pretty good despite being raised in a conservative Catholic family and most of the trauma for me came later on, after moving to the US I ended up being attracted to the movement that still does the Mass in Latin and mostly ignores (or sometimes outright rejects) Vatican II and I gotta say that I saw Protestant influence with American Catholics that I didn’t see back in Mexico like homeschooling and outright rejection of science for some reason (first it was evolution with some close parish friends and later it was the vaccines). One of my past therapists was convinced I had come out of a cult after I told him everything I went through (and we had our version of Purity Culture as well that I don’t recall experiencing back in Mexico either). For me it my inability to reconcile Original Sin with what we know about human evolution that was the final straw for me as if Adam and Eve never existed then there was no Fall and thus Jesus had no reason to die in the first place, the entire religion fell apart for me after that even after I tried more liberal denominations like the Episcopalians. It seems that many ex-Catholics end up missing the ritual and thus end up becoming neo-Pagan for example, I’ve had an interest in that from time to time and even though it didn’t work for me in the end it and other religions I tried have influenced the way I see the world even though most of my current beliefs (or lack thereof) are nearly indistinguishable from the average Secular Humanist. It’s the “Pagan” bits of Catholicism that interest me the most and I’ve also had made the connection to the Mystery Cults, one could argue the entire religion is “tainted” with Paganism if they consider the Virgin Birth story to be an important element since I know those stories tended to be pretty common in the Greco-Roman world, I don’t regret being raised Catholic but I feel that my greatest mistake was to double down and become devout about it instead of just let my faith fade away (instead of imploding like it did after years of cognitive dissonance) or just be a “cultural” Catholic like her husband, ironically I have some appreciation for Mary more now than I did when I still believed as I very much think she absorbed elements from goddesses like Athena, Isis and in the Guadalupe case the Aztec goddess Tonantzin. I’ve even heard the bold claim that the Roman Empire never truly went away because it lives on in the Catholic Church, if that’s true did the Empire absorb the Church or was it the other way around?

[@GonzalesLanguages]

I don't think Jesus created all these nonsensical rules or guidelines.

[@aestroai8012]

Interesting. I've met people from all over the world. My only regret as an American is that I haven't really been out of the country. I can't believe Catholics don't believe in purgatory anymore. Weird. That was one of the things that made me become Catholic.

[@justgettingby7725]

I think she was actually thinking of limbo, not purgatory. They were talking about infants who died without baptism. The belief that infants went to limbo for eternity used to be very common, but the church has discouraged that belief now. On the other hand, purgatory, as a place of temporary suffering, is still very much a catholic doctrine.

[@aestroai8012]

@@justgettingby7725 Yeah, well I believe they don't believe in either officially these days.

[@brialapoint2608]

I was born into Christianity. I rejected it years ago. watch Christians fight with each other. I was raised Catholic and protestant. I remember going to Mass and hearing jesus went to hell.... To save the sinners but that sounds weird. Because if he went to hell isnt it really because he was a troublemaker?

[@srich7503]

No it isnt. Maybe you should learn more…

[@Johnwick-wi8zw]

​​@@srich7503dude why r U here .r U afraid of the rise of atheism 😂😂😂 keep ur mythology stories to urself mate .

[@srich7503]

@@Johnwick-wi8zw aaaaawwwww! Hit a nerve with a piece of pushback reality that cannot be squashed? 😢

[@lesleymeldrum7142]

Don't know where I should mention this but I am from Brisbane Australia and at this very moment 14 congregation members are on trial for murder. A child was refused her diabetes insulin shot. The church believed God would heal her. They watched her struggle at the altar until her last breath, offering her only prayers. Her parents were also participants. Sad...

[@Lenergyiskey358]

Hi fellow Aussie. I did not know about that story. These things need to be all over the media. How did the trial go?

[@lesleymeldrum7142]

@@Lenergyiskey358 Hello. I think it's still going.

[@Lenergyiskey358]

@@lesleymeldrum7142 Thanks. I'll check it out.

[@Magik1369]

The story of Jesus is a myth. Jesus is a symbol of your own Self...that is of a Self Realized human being. The passion and agony and crucifixion of Jesus is something that everyone on the path of Self Realization will personally experience. To become Self Realized, one must be "crucified" between the opposites of time and eternity, mortal and immortal, life and death, masculine and feminine, etc. Eventually the opposites unite within you and you become unified and filled with Light. This process takes decades to complete and it is every bit as agonizing as the passion of Christ. Jesus is every man and woman. The Catholic Church distorted and corrupted the true teachings of Jesus and they made up all the stuff about atonement and salvation by mere belief, etc. The Catholic Church is a product of the Flavian Caesars and the Roman state.

[@emmatessier600]

I don't think there are a lot of churches/ denominations that tell a realistic interpretation of the gospel. What would make sense to me is that Jesus would have professed that he is the son of God the same way we all are sons and daughters of God. But if the four gospels tell the story so differently, then how will we ever know what was intended really..

[@Stephanie-ni6zc]

Mary is HR, lol.

[@emilywyatt9340]

I know this. The historical Jesus was a wandering preacher,mystic,healer and yet another Messiah a shekel. He was human and conceived naturally to husband and wife. After his shock execution . His followers turned him into a demi god plucked out of the pages of the surrounding pagan religions. They were trying to appeal to Gentiles after the Jews rightly declined.

[@trilithon108]

My understanding: The Catholic Church was the original church, and the liturgy was in Latin. Back in 400 CE, most did not read, and there were no books. The Pope, Cardinals, and Priests were the link to God. Protestantism was Bible focused, which also coincided with the printing press, so it was very different to Catholicism.

[@melodieearickson7392]

Catholics still believe in Purgatory. I just looked it up.😊

[@johnh1601]

So if we are willing to put on our critical thinking caps there was something troubling about this story. The lady admitted she never read the bible for various reasons(wasn't encouraged to do so as example)and was told what it said /meant. Then she hears someone else tell her about the historical Jesus and evidence or lack thereof....Does anyone else see a pattern here? I notice people do this whether it's religion, history, conspiracy the list goes on. In simpler terms , there are few people who actually research and critically think for themselves. They jump around any belief based on what others say.

[@rainbowkrampus]

You're forgetting the part where she talked about watching a bunch of atheist stuff on YT. It would be wrong to assume that her only interaction with these ideas was being told something. But also, the idea that the Bible's claims are all made up does rely on experts. It's okay to rely on experts. You don't need to sit down and work through all the math to figure out why, I dunno, quantum chromodynamics works. You can generally rely on a physicist. Likewise, you can rely on experts to point out the many problems with the Bible as text, as a historical document and as a philosophical/moral document.

[@johnh1601]

@@rainbowkrampus I get it though I think you're somewhat deflecting. I get sick and doctor prescribes antibiotics. I can either attend med school or take his word. I choose the latter. On some things I research myself. For example, a friend recently told me about someone named Billy Carson. I watched his interview,made notes and researched etc. My personal opinion was he presents himself as knowledgeable and was not.i would not know that if I did not research varied information myself. but as you pointed out it's what we desire to seek as truth versus what we take at face value.

[@brianharper1611]

People don't have the time to do all that. To be fair one would need to read all religious texts and spend a ton of time studying. I stopped believing because I wasn't given a good reason to believe. I was out by age 13. My common sense was enough. This was pre-internet. This was obviously people who didn't have a good understanding of reality just making stories up to answer questions they were ignorant about. It wasn't me just believing what others said. At the time I didn't even know any other non-believers. I assumed there were other non-believers, but I just never heard of any. I mean in a God, not just in Christianity. I was already asking myself big philosophical questions before age 10, like "how can I know what is real?" I have since done a lot more research into it and reading about the history just as a hobby, and this information lined up with what I figured out at age 13.

[@brianharper1611]

@@johnh1601 You don't have to go to med school. You can just read about the antibiotics. What I am saying is you don't merely have to rely on your doctor. You are also able to test if the antibiotics actually work, by you know, taking them.

[@GonzalesLanguages]

As a past Southern Baptist i empatize with her. Her belief on Mary is a little esquied . The church added her around the Year 400 . Her ascencion was not in the original gospels. Its a Catholic thing or ief that is never questioned.

[@BlackDeath920]

Hey Tim idk if you have been on Facebook but I messaged you several times in response to the date for the interview

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Sorry -- I will follow up shortly.

[@valinorean4816]

@@HarmonicAtheist Hi! As someone from a Soviet culture (now an immigrant in the USA) I believe that the resurrection was staged by the Romans, as explained in a popular book where I'm from - "The Gospel of Afranius"; like many others, I read it in childhood and never thought about this question again - until coming to the USA and noticing a stark contrast in the discussion of this question. What do you think of that explanation? (This work was praised in "Nature", skeptical biblical scholar Carlos Colombetti called it "a worthy addition to the set of naturalistic hypotheses that have been proposed", and apologist Lydia McGrew grudgingly acknowledged that it is "consistent with the evidence".)

[@antonius_006]

Reza Aslan 's book "Zealot" is a good book.

[@djehutisundaka7998]

The historical Jesus did not preach to anyone. The historical Jesus had been a failed insurrectionist Zealot leader from Galilee who had been designated as the 'Messiah' by the historical John the Baptist and his historical scribal followers known as apostles. Based upon the expectations of John and the apostles, the historical Jesus had been expected to establish the global kingdom of the Jewish god in 34 CE, at the end of the 70 Weeks claimed in Daniel 9:24. Upon hearing of the crucifixion after the Passover of 34 CE, the apostles had concluded that the resurrection must have begun and that their crucified messiah would soon be appearing in Jerusalem in resurrected form to establish the prophesized kingdom. It had been then that the apostles had all moved from Galilee to Jerusalem with their families in expectation of the Kingdom. There is no sound archaeological evidence of a place called Nazareth prior to the destruction of the Jewish temple. The historical John, Jesus, and the apostles, had all more than likely have been from the area of Capernaum and had been known as Nozrim. The gospel ascribed to Matthew written c. 91 CE, provides the earliest reference to a place called Nazareth which wouldn't have existed during the lifetime of the historical Jesus.

[@ArturoLopez-007]

17 minutes in and I count 4 errors in basic details about religion. That's a turn-off! I expect more from people who left religion. But alas, I am going to keep watching. I want to finish hearing her experience.

[@opinion3742]

I haven't watched this yet. I might not, I'm a busy man. But shouldn't it all come together when you realize that the Christ of faith is not the Jesus of history?

[@8thdayindependentfundament454]

Preyz Gord 👋😎👍

[@rivoendre]

Would be nice to be prepared for Catholic theology when you know you would touch it. Just a little hint: The Bible, either Catholic or Protestant version, nowhere mentions Mary's ascending to the Heaven. This is an idea that was developed at later ages of the church history and by today it is accepted dogma in the Catholic church. 1st November 1950 was the actual date when this became a dogma btw

[@srich7503]

The Bible itself is later dogma. It did not fall out of the sky… History shows us that Jesus didn't leave us a bible, - the apostles didn't tell us which books belong in the bible, - the church fathers never agreed on the 27 books of the NT through the 4th century, - not only did they not agree but their individual lists of would-be NT canons were GROWING during this time, growing in numbers of hundreds of “inspired” NT writings. Therefore, if it wasn't the Catholic/Orthodox church that compiled the 27 books of the NT in the 5th century with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and preserved it by laboriously hand copying them over and over throughout the centuries before the invention of the printing press, the “rule of faith” for many, please tell us who did? And if this church no longer exists today, what good is the text which came forth from her if she couldn't sustain herself?

[@rivoendre]

@@srich7503Catholic dogmas in the 20th century and books written by apostles that followed Jesus are two different things...

[@srich7503]

@@rivoendre either you have some proof of this you are scared to share OR the original church i spoke about above has indeed failed, which would also require evidence. Which is it??? Im very curious NOW…

[@rivoendre]

@@srich7503 Proof for what? That Catholic dogma in the 20th century was not created by the apostles? Well, this is fact, as all the apostles lived 2000 years ago

[@srich7503]

@@rivoendre THEN who else was it that decided on the 27 books??? Who??? Please be specific because there are many sects claiming it is them…

[@tomrhodes1629]

Elijah has returned, as prophesied, and testifies: Until one understands the one fact that's called "the Philosopher's Stone," one understands absolutely nothing. And here it is: "GOD" is the Mind that is ALL, and there simply isn't anything else! "Christ" is the Thought ("Spirit") of GOD that is the Life and True Identity of EVERY man, hidden under the veil of insanity that is called "the devil" and "satan": the selfish human EGO. Yeshua One with Christ ("Jesus Christ") is simply a man who overcame the ego and shows you how to do the same. This world is a mental hospital for GOD's temporarily insane children. And their only problem is the guilt-based FEAR that causes them to think they know something before they know a DAMNED thing. "Unless ye become as little childrern...."

[@kidslovesatan34]

That's not a fact, it is an unverified claim in want a good evidence. It's not fact, it's supposition.

[@sharongood8257]

Why become like little children, of course that’s the best time to indoctrinate. Satan/devil is no more real than any other characters in the bible. People do not fear fictional characters. I have an easier time believing in Santa Claus because at least he shows up once a year, he brings gifts not retribution.

[@lavieenrose5954]

Nonsense.

[@jon6815]

@@tomrhodes1629 Excuse me! Are you a virgin?

[@jon6815]

@@tomrhodes1629 You are Jesus H Christ in a chickenbasket and I claim my five denarii.

[@helencahn7293]

Prayer is a form of meditation. Meditation is beneficial for mindfulness and can help everyone. It's just not a way to invoke magic. I think everyone should engage in some form of mindfulness.

[@RobertCharles-i1k]

Someone can say the exact same thing about exercise or a walk in the Park.

[@FoursWithin]

Prayer may be a form of meditation, for some people. Meditation may be beneficial as a mindfulness tool , for some people. Neither meditation nor traditional mindfulness practices are a one size fits all panacea that works as described for all or even most people. Still , there are many ways to get in a mindful or meditative state of mind. Like so much in life it's really subjective and personal. It could be running , swimming, bicycling, rock climbing, skateboarding, gardening, mowing lawn, pruning a tree, painting , drawing, playing a musical instrument, having sex, watching ocean waves , staring at the stars , taking a bath ,and so much more.

[@RobertCharles-i1k]

@@FoursWithin Well said. Thanks

[@patrickwoods2213]

Depends on what type of prayer.

[@nauticdixons]

​@@RobertCharles-i1kor dancing, as in my case. It could literarily be anything that works for you.

[@groundedrootsarlingtontx2769]

Seinfeld?

[@rickyodom1201]

the real was jesus hidden study the one lds have and teaching god or father his son jesus christ and the holy ghost all diffent beings ut one prose and that is being all those that are will to bring back home and we do have a mother for man was creted in the image of god with one head not three i remember them making michel painting over gods belly button because god was not suppost have one yet he does lol

[@ModernDayHeretic-m9j]

Even the trinity is a bunch of absolute nonsense that isn't even in the bible, yet Christiams blindly follow it and try to imsert trinitarian i terpretations into the bible where there are none.

[@ModernDayHeretic-m9j]

"Why do you call me good? Only God is good"