It Belongs in a Museum! Or, "Ian Offends Curators"

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Have museums fundamentally changed since the advent of the internet? Does this impact decisions about whether artifacts like firearms are best held in museums versus private collections for the sake of study and understanding? How do creeping deactivation standards irreparably harm the community, and would any museum curator even consider deliberately destroying any other sort of artifact in their care? This and more, in today's rambling discussion of guns and museums...
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
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[@hughbrackett343]

_Today on Hydraulic Press Channel we have two prototype Spanish pistols..._

[@agypsychild]

A truly underrated comment.

[@psilorder86]

@BenjaminTheRogue Is the grandpa shouting at us (Swedes) out of pure principle? Hydraulic Press Channel is from Finland.

[@emmavaria]

I laughed because of how much it hurts. Curse you, imaginary Lauri and Anni!

[@NightRavenGSA01]

@@psilorder86 Eh, they were Swedes for a time too, close enough

[@ChumblesMumbles]

Combining two of my frequently visited channels in a crossover? Yes please.

[@badopinionsrighthere]

Ian's taking a chance with offending the people who have direct access to the Egyptian Pharaoh curses

[@Karthage922]

This comment is horrifically underrated, good one my friend

[@blakee2525]

RETURN THE SLAB

[@andreasmartin7942]

The Son of the Gun God laughs about the puny pharao`s curses.

[@Chaosrain112]

KING RAAAAAAAAAAAAMSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES

[@smoraptor]

@@blakee2525 *Ian brandishing a chauchat* "sorry, I only have slabs of lead"

[@moreparrotsmoredereks2275]

Ian: "SHOW ME THE STRANGE AND UNUSUAL FIREARMS YOU'RE HIDING IN THE BACK!!" "Sir, this is a Wendy's"

[@mikepette4422]

Allegedly !

[@ohmygoditisspider7953]

That literally does not change ANYTHING about how reasonable that demand is

[@magmat0585]

Bruh, you're thinking of Denny's

[@redneckwithajeep5001]

@@ohmygoditisspider7953 I’d argue it does. If you go to a run of the mill general museum you’re less likely to guns in the back than you would in a Wendy’s just a mile from the Mexican border

[@ohmygoditisspider7953]

@@redneckwithajeep5001 friend, the location of the Wendy's is not relevant.

[@greenybird7132]

In an alternate universe Ian is one of KZbin’s most respected butterfly experts

[@doublesam6514]

Butterfly Jesus

[@willdwyer6782]

One problem with that. Botanists don't study butterflies.

[@napatora]

@@willdwyer6782 omg thank you i was like why would a botanist spend all that time collecting butterflies lol

[@ianfinrir8724]

@@willdwyer6782 No, but a Lepidopterist does.

[@givemethemusicd]

Exactly...a perfect entomologist or lepidopterist. He is fastidious and calm.

[@masonperry9178]

It's a rare botanist that dedicates their life to collect butterflies

[@benroper294]

😁

[@danburrill8716]

Yes, but botanist is easier to say than lepidopterist. They're both squishy and organic, it's close enough. ;)

[@klegdixal3529]

can't a botanist have an entomological hobby?

[@LazyLifeIFreak]

You know what he meant but choose to point out a slip of the tongue. :)

[@paddington1670]

@@klegdixal3529 no, that is not allowed

[@Rohi727]

They hated the Gun Jesus, because he told them the truth.

[@SithLord2066]

He overturned their ammo carts edit: thanks for the likes!

[@HighlanderNorth1]

📛👉 Let's just hope the neo-liberals and communists don't crucify GJ(Gun Jesus)! You see, 2000 years ago, the "non believers" were content with only executing OJ(original Jesus). But today's increasingly radical non-believers(leftists) won't be happy til they've nailed every legal, non-violent gun owner to a cross! 💥👺👿👹💥

[@MrLoliandthebear]

@@HighlanderNorth1 communist love guns and gun Jesus

[@Sequoia204]

@@HighlanderNorth1 Ian keeps his channel apolitical. Too bad not all of his viewers can have the same level of maturity

[@barmyfanny]

@@MrLoliandthebear communists love taking others’ guns, who are you on?

[@cadetri9716]

Butterflies: Nah bro we're good, he's a botanist he's not here for us Botanist: Gotcha! Butterflies: ...

[@nutsmcflurry3737]

Ian, you are a 100% correct on the future of museums. Our local museum right in the middle of gold country, called me up and wanted me to donate my fathers collection of gold mining equipment. He had smaller workable versions of gold mining equipment. Stamp mill, ball mill, rod mill, large single cylinder engine ets. They wanted me to donate so that they could sell it all off and have the local artist do a diorama with miniature stick figures instead of the real thing. We moved the complete collection out with in two days.

[@KD--sj8eo]

You’re anecdotal story about a museum means fuck all to be fair.

[@liammaxfield4432]

@@KD--sj8eo Whats wrong with you?

[@mrhyde4732]

@@liammaxfield4432 Someone pissed in his cheerios this morning

[@Jreb1865]

@@KD--sj8eo What an ass...

[@getmeoutofsanfrancisco9917]

@@liammaxfield4432 I am so curious what this guy said lol

[@iharten]

Reminds me of how the history of aviation can basically be summed up as "All examples were scrapped."

[@humoroustumor]

Same goes for ships. The Titanic has two other sister ships, the Britanic and the Olympic. The Britanic sank during the First World War but the Olympic had a long service that it survived but due to it being an obsolete design during an economic crisis was unfortunately scrapped. Now today we see the sea faring community and how obsessed they are with the history of the titanic and it only hurts more knowing that the Olympic which was an exact copy of the Titanic could have been a floating museum but never met that fate.

[@sooline3854]

Railroad museums in the USA, as well.

[@joshuatxuk]

Especially anything up until the 1950s and especially during WW2 when metal was a precious commodity. There's also the fact in the first half of the 20th century prototypes did the job that wind tunnels and computer models do now - many were one-offs for that reason. There were far more manufacturers and it wasn't cost effective for many companies and governments to save planes versus scrapping them and re-working them. Now it's more a drop in the bucket and enthusiasts far more interested in preservation.

[@DavidBainGaming]

I always get sad when I see Axis warships fates as those that were not sunk were majority given as prize ships then scrapped or used to testing of other things. Like Prinz Eugen, a historically significant heavy cruiser, but was taken by the US and used as a target to test a nuclear bomb instead of preserved. Only manufactured hull of the E100 tank was taken as scrap metal by the English. The list goes on and on and it goes both ways, it is a real shame to see it all happen.

[@maiyannah]

This is why the Canadian Aviation Museum protects the Avro remains in its possession with an almost religious zeal.

[@thetinfoilfreak]

God, Ian sounded so depressed when he was talking about how the guns we crushed... I really feel bad for those guns.

[@earlm4744]

Yeah I can feel his voice cracking at the start.

[@BMW_MAN]

=(

[@thetinfoilfreak]

@Fannie Flosser no kidding, my grandparents are avidly anti gun, they want all firearms banned because of how scary they are. Well, better scary than useless.

[@TruthNerds]

They didn't just crush some guns, they also crushed Ian's soul…

[@thetinfoilfreak]

@@TruthNerds true that. Rip Ian's soul, may he reclaim it by seeing something like the pancor Jackhammer or the original ak-47 prototype made by Mikhail Kalashnikov himself

[@zacdemelo8949]

"Botanist" "Butterflies" Ian I....

[@notgraham.7215]

His name is gun Jesus, not WORD Jesus lol

[@PermaJeff]

Same lol

[@CJM-rg5rt]

Atleast butterflies exclusively pollinate plants.

[@mudcrab3420]

Even Botanists need a hobby :)

[@mrxenomorf5079]

Don't be so harsh on him. He usually thinks of butterflies as knives

[@mzmadmike]

Don't forget the millions of rifles the Army tossed into the Pacific after WWII because "HEY! WAR's ENDED FOREVER!" and then again after Korea because, "This time for sure!"

[@jamesbisset9891]

It has nothing to do with thinking that “wars ended forever”. The reason they do it is because it costs lots of money to store things

[@getoffmylawn5643]

@@avae5343 ...fish them out of the ocean, for starters.

[@BichaelStevens]

@@avae5343 re-issue?

[@BichaelStevens]

@@avae5343 now fire the AK full auto. Use it for distance engagements. We still use tanks despite aircraft dictating everything. That's like sending a boat against a ship.

[@BichaelStevens]

@@avae5343 Sod off, consoomerist. Anything that works, works. Damn shame our and next generation is raised on a diet of shoddy, purposefully unreliable perishable goods. Not my fault you can't remember when even washing machines and toasters lasted decades.

[@vulpsturm]

"This is a German Mg-34 from WWII that the Germans used" "What factory was it made at?" ".... This a German Mg-34 from WWII that the Germans used"

[@australiananarchist480]

"A German one"

[@timothygrulke1308]

"Yes I know that, I want to know something about this ones story. like where was was it made, which units used it, what battles was it involved with, and how did it end up here." "... Its an MG 34"

[@youtubeseagull]

the americans made a lot of what germany used. The war was probably just a weapons contract

[@kohinarec6580]

@@youtubeseagull hey look, here's an MG 42!

[@100acatfishandwillbreakyou2]

@@youtubeseagull World gun conference.

[@blairfaulkner7996]

“For 50cents a day, You can help pistols and others like them find a caring and loving owner”

[@kevinsullivan3448]

We will send you postcards from the guns you have saved...

[@ufc990]

In they eyes of an angellll

[@Terabit3]

I'll make 8 accounts right now

[@mpetersen6]

Sally Struthers needs a new gig. I always found her pleading for starving children slightly funny. If she would just step away from the buffet* table *Big Ugly Fat F$%@÷=s Eating Together

[@adamdivers603]

@@kevinsullivan3448... and a cuddly gun toy! Lol

[@corvanphoenix]

I was at the Lithgow firearms museum in NSW, Australia mid-2020. They had a petition to be allowed to keep their firearms in firing condition. If it fails, even our historical firearms in the museum they were produced in cannot show functional firearms to the public.

[@peterlazzari3950]

That is sad. It's why private collectors are so important here. Keep supporting the ssaa.

[@diablobutai839]

This video makes a TON of good and accurate points. I volunteered at a county historical commission. I was tasked with figuring out what World War 1 and 2 Era uniforms, medals, and helmets we had. They were terribly understaffed.

[@socalgn159]

If it wasn’t for private collectors, a lot of the history of firearms would be lost. And not just the physical guns themselves but the history behind them. Thank you Ian and everyone at C&Rsenal for everything you do to preserve history.

[@---cr8nw]

Absolutely. I consider myself a collector. Most of my stuff would be considered junk by true collectors, but some of it is super interesting. For example, the worst gun I own is a Grendel P-10. Most people have never heard of Grendel (as a manufacturer). It was George Kellgren's previous company before he formed Keltec. The design looks a lot like Keltec's guns. But it's a polymer .380 pistol. It's very snappy and has an atrocious trigger pull. But the really interesting part is that it doesn't have a detachable box magazine. The internal 10-round magazine is loaded from the top like a Mauser C96. It's the only top-fed pistol I know of that was designed and manufactured in my lifetime. It's a truly awful gun to load and to shoot. But it's interesting. Whenever I'm teaching a new shooter, I like to let them try it in comparison to other guns. A bad gun really helps you see what to look for in a good gun. That's just one example of my oddball stuff.

[@JoshuaC923]

As someone who lives in a country that only allows the public to collect deactivated ancient firearms, i truly appreciate channels like FW

[@SCH292]

I find it so "funny and ironic" how these COUNTRIES and THOSE PEOPLE OUTSIDE USA blame USA for..."destroying history and knowledge"..when THESE COUNTRIES and THOSE PEOPLE are doing it themselves right inside their own country.

[@raetiran463]

@@---cr8nw sounds like a good collection item to me. Quote Edison: “I didn’t fail a thousand times, I learned 1000 ways *not* to make a lightbulb”

[@noahhughes2501]

@@SCH292 well that's because the US is more brash than others with cultural heritage. For instance, the ivory destruction party in New York a few years ago. Centuries old ivory carvings destroyed for absolutely nothing. In Britain, firearms within museums are allowed to be kept activated. They just have their firing pins removed.

[@toasty5605]

My Local Aviation museum has a JU-88 that had to make an emergency landing after taking fire and landed on a frozen lake (Norway) It was sunk a few days later. I mistakenly thought that they had it on display and so when i asked one of the staff they told me "Sorry, thats in the workshop Currently" well after talking to the staff member for 5 minutes he realized i hadn't just seen the thing on The History Channel but that i was genuinly interested in It, so he took me into the workshop where i got to see this awesome bird. We talked for the better part of and hour and i even had the privilege of sticking my head inside the cockpit. So if you go to a museum and ask the staff about something they may just give you one hell of a tour

[@akiko3688]

Nice

[@oz_jones]

Cool!

[@Big_AlMC]

Got some mad head from a lady in the back once when I asked for the special tour

[@redram5150]

This is so true with car museums, especially on slow weekdays

[@balkloth]

I was hella pissed one time because i went to the smithsonian natural history museum to see their crystal skulls and they were in storage. Who gives a shit about a bunch of rocks and of old animal corpses, i want to see the heads of the aliens who taught us how to build pyramids

[@acester86]

This is why major museums should all have KZbin channels. The USS New Jersey museum has a fantastic KZbin presence. They really launched onto the interweb in 2020, when Covid closed their doors. So they pushed more onto the web and you can see so much more than a tour will get you, and if you have any questions their staff a pretty good about answering and the curator may even make a video to answer. It really is a fantastic channel I can't praise it enough.

[@Kelnor277]

I’m now imagining a physical Wikipedia museum where you enter the article number and an automated system delivers all the relevant physical objects to a room for you to look at.

[@diegoalvarado452]

😂 lol…. That’s literally in the movie “Ready Player One”

[@myparceltape1169]

That is very nearly the British Museum. Online they have many 3D objects with brief descriptions but you probably want more than that. You are right though, small fragments of things stored in a drawer have been known to change scientific opinion.

[@alanhunyady2280]

Seen the movie "Ready Player One"?

[@spartan8705]

It isn’t automated, but you can try to book a slot & email the Royal Armouries a list of guns, and they will collect them for you to research if you can justify why you need them Eg working on a game, a book, something else Ian’s done a bunch of videos from the Armouries’ collections, with some amazing prototype rifles

[@scumbaag]

Im very upset everyone is mentioning "Ready Player One" here instead of the much cooler Matrix loadout program.

[@richard343s]

"They hated gun jesus because he told them the truth"

[@ronsimpson143]

Gun Jesus... lol

[@longshot7601]

What I really like about this channel is the fact that often times the guns will be shot on the range. There you can SEE the practicality or lack there or of that firearm. Sometimes it has a comedic result as in the vz-61 video of the shells being ejected straight up and the demonstration of one bouncing of the top of Ian's head. You can't get information like that off of a Wiki page.

[@XThunderBoltFilms]

@@longshot7601 man everytime I watch the casing smack ian in the head I have to re-watch it a few times. Its so well timed, the THUD it makes just kills me. kzbin.info/www/bejne/inanZ61qlJ6Zo9k

[@longshot7601]

@@XThunderBoltFilms What slayed me was that he turned to look at the camera just before it hit.

[@XThunderBoltFilms]

@@longshot7601 Its a weapon unparalleled in its utility, lethality, and comedic timing.

[@historynerd2373]

I really like local museums. the ones where half the shit doesnt have wikipedia articles and you leave feeling like you know more about where you live.

[@Aaron-mv1kd]

Bra we once drove up into the mountains and we saw a dudes public collection of mail history, shit i saw there the post office didnt know about

[@mitchelloughman8382]

As a biologist i cringed a little when he said that

[@shanesizemore3654]

There's a museum right down the road from me and it's primarily civil war with WW2 bringbacks. There are 3 First Model Griswold Revolvers, half dozen colts, Burnside Carbine, Sharps Carbine, Smith Carbine, Maynard Carbine, an entire intact crate of CS Richmond rifles, a rifle from the Greasy Grass, and a bunch of original winchesters. The funny part is it's not even listed online. It's in the back of a boot store

[@altergreenhorn]

Museums need to survive in hard commercialisation. Some countries fund museums and they can keep their main goal in preserving only a real gems, others without government support are forced in to some sort of disneyland to survive

[@DangerB0ne]

The best airplane museum in Southern California is a little place called March Field Museum. Not only do they have an SR-71, they have one of the few surviving examples of the Bell P-59 Airacomet and Northrop YA-9. IIRC they restored a B-24 Liberator to airworthiness some years ago.

[@loydcarrier2197]

You got the internet talking Ian, just seen the response from the German Tank Museum. All very civilised as it should be.

[@socaldualsportadventure5320]

Honestly yes! I feel like the people who watch these videos are a little more mature than some other KZbin videos. And it’s very relieving to come to the comments and see intelligent discussion and thoughts. it’s so refreshing lol. Have a great day brother I love this old stuff too 👍🏼

[@rus0004]

Where can I find this response?

[@loydcarrier2197]

@@rus0004 kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3Wbi5pjpNpsf6s

[@offdeadeye88]

@@rus0004 any luck?

[@rus0004]

@@offdeadeye88 Just searched it now. "german tank museum forgotten weapons", it's the first result.

[@bassface1018]

"The botanist who spent 50 years cataloguing butterflies".... botany (noun)- the scientific study of plants, including their physiology, structure, genetics, ecology, distribution, classification, and economic importance. Ian: Butterflies are plants

[@lemhanback9595]

I was thinking same thing. Botanist= Plants, Entomologist= bugs, but hey his expertise is in firearms. So guess we give him a pass.😂😂

[@jackiemowery5243]

@@lemhanback9595 While we are at it we can call in a Lepidopterist to catalog the butterflies.

[@lemhanback9595]

@@jackiemowery5243 I didn't know the name of those scientist. Thank you 😂😂

[@tekha1977]

Flowers can’t shoot. Butterflies can’t shoot. Flowers and butterflies are therfor the same. “Gun Jesus”

[@Deliverygrot]

Nice

[@catachandevilfang]

Look, I see a lot of people bemoaning the “death” of the traditional museum in the comments, and I think that conclusion misses a lot of key points to the discussion. As a museums/archives professional, let me say that it’s important to recognize that this is not just happening because of the internet, as Ian wonderfully summarized, but because our society’s educational needs for entry-level knowledge (in the U.S. at least) are not being met. Museums are killing two birds with one stone right now-they can’t compete with internet sources for sharing raw, specialist knowledge, so they are picking up the slack for schools that have long struggled to teach kids (who eventually grow into under-informed adults) essential information. Schools wash their hands of kids as soon as they walk out the door; museums are uniquely capable of educating people of all ages in an ongoing fashion. So as frustrating as the changes in the museum world may be to some of us, they are not unreasonable changes, nor are they necessarily bad ones. The other interesting consideration here is how our relationship to objects versus the information they hold is changing because of the internet. Take the original copy of the Constitution; we still have almost no idea where it went between 1787 and 1883, when it was found in a tin box in a closet at the War Department in D.C. It wasn’t seriously preserved until the National Archives was founded in 1934. For all that time, Americans largely thought of document preservation along the lines of the Ebenezer Hazard model-that the document itself matters less than the information it contains. That’s why the original statute for preserving official documents (the State Department Act of September 15, 1789) focuses much more on distributing copies of official documents that on preserving them, even specifying each new act must be published in at least three newspapers. We are kind of in the same boat again today-back then, it was more useful to print key government acts in newspapers so that they would actually be seen, rather than keeping a single document safe in a building somewhere. It is hard to shake this kind of practical, cultural logic once it gets established. Curiously, the internet has taken us back to this logic in many ways. Times have changed. I don’t know about you, but 98% of the work I do will never be printed as a physical document. We are primed to see a file not as a thing but as a source of information now. That is not to say traditional, object-focused archives and museums don't matter, but they are better set up to serve researchers behind-the-scenes rather than large crowds via permanent displays. Now, the critiques that Ian has about that aspect of service are very real, and will not be fixed until we fully fund our museums and archives. If an object or information about an object is not accessible, it might as well not exist. However, in terms of consistent and equitable physical access for researchers, as well as long-term preservation, properly appreciated and funded archives/museum collections cannot be beat. The internet age is full of these kinds of compromises. Still, for us gun nuts who can’t afford to travel the world and see a Lahti in its native habitat, we are very grateful to have Ian and his digital library of all things gun!

[@spudgamer6049]

Interesting perspective. Thank you for sharing.

[@kregchrist2826]

very well said

[@lotusdev]

This really is food for thought. I suspect you are correct.

[@raetiran463]

This is a great take on things, and to me perhaps suggests that as the nature of the museum changes, separating it from being bound hand and foot to archival duties might be wise (thus freeing both branches to do better work) there will still be a need for both to cooperate, but you wouldn’t have as many staff being forced to try and do two increasingly different tasks

[@scottyoung7856]

The funding is actually a massive problem. There are huge amounts of historically valuable relics and examples that are being stored badly and getting destroyed because museums dont have the resources to preserve them. Even the US national archives are so full of stuff that is completely uncataloged and impossible to access for almost anyone.

[@josiahgibson6373]

Coincidentally, I know a retired botanist that curates a butterfly collection at a Museum in Christchurch NZ. His name is also Ian.

[@DAVEMC1000]

Wouldn't that make him an entomologist?

[@josiahgibson6373]

@@DAVEMC1000 He worked as a botanist for many years. Then he retired from that and now works part time (I believe as a volunteer) on the butterfly collection, since it's also a passion of his.

[@Purp1e_Grapes]

Forgotten Butterflies ( not my idea got it from another comment)

[@lotgc]

We have never seen this butterfly botanist and Ian here in the same room Coincidence? I think NOT!

[@martinschofield4895]

There used to be a museum called the Higgins Armory Museum, it was likely the greatest displayed collection of European martial art arms and armor in the US. The owner was a steel manufacturer, and bought anything in Europe he could find made of steel. It closed and was folded into the local Art museum, so now it has one room. Where before you could see the evolution of arms and armor, including for dogs and horses, it's now just a side note.

[@countrugensfriend350]

An example is the Gettysburg Battlefield pavilion. there used to be rooms of weapons from the battle. Now there are virtually no weapons visible. I asked a docent, the weapons are out of sight in storage. I was very sad.

[@Paludion]

Spain : "- To deactivate this gun, we drilled a hole in the barrel !" Ian : "- Look how they massacred my boy..."

[@edwardburns24]

Nice reference... saluté

[@JayEnfield]

Personally, I like the lead plug method. But I can appreciate why the authorities wouldn't.

[@486kyle]

He's-a marinating in his own ragu!

[@miketaylorID1]

“Call Bonasera. We need him now”.

[@ajwilson605]

Hmmmm....... a hobby lathe and a blank of 4130 steel. I wonder......

[@ahmadtajy7178]

"Firearm deactivation" Should be renamed to what it actually is. "Firearm destruction"

[@CrowXIII]

You make it sound as if that's bad

[@ahmadtajy7178]

@@CrowXIII you make it sound like it isn't bad

[@_ArsNova]

Clearly those pistols were just temporarily deactivated by that steamroller.

[@ahmadtajy7178]

@@_ArsNova and by today's standards they weren't even deactivated in the first place lmao

[@huntclanhunt9697]

It should just be called "stupid" Ship it to the US and auction it.

[@dnash2131]

Royal armory in Leeds, Yorkshire, England. Thats a proper museum

[@bjornkeizers]

This topic is a particular pet peeve of mine. Sadly, museums seem to be moving away from their core function of preserving and presenting knowledge and artifacts... and moving towards becoming theme parks. When I was a kid, museums were very much a 'look but don't touch' affair. And yes, that means that some people will find them boring. Information was presented very factually and in-depth, to where you needed at least some familiarity with its subject matter in order to grasp the finer details. These days, people want interactive museums, they want "an experience", and it needs to be "kid friendly". Ten years ago, I visited an airplane museum. The type of museum that has a lot of ropes and very knowledgable staff. They preserved historic aircraft and knew a lot about them. Unfortunately, shortly after that, the museum had to close due to financial issues. It reopened later with a more commercial twist. I went back a few years later, under new management. And boy, was it different. They basically put up play areas everywhere. And a lot of previously roped stuff was now easily touched with sticky kid fingers. They actually put up bouncy castles and a popcorn machine. It was basically an indoor/outdoor playground that also had aircraft. Gone also were the knowledgeable volunteers - no doubt retiring rather than running bouncy castles and popcorn makers. Another military museum actually has very bad reviews online. Mind you, the museum itself is awesome - the bad reviews came from parents who weren't happy that kids couldn't climb all over the roped off tanks and aircraft and that they were told off by volunteers for touching things they weren't allowed to touch. Museums are not playgrounds. But sadly, a lot of them seem to be going for that demographic. The end result is that I, as someone knowledgeable on the subject, simply don't go to those museums. -

[@majungasaurusaaaa]

Good. They're actually useful to the public now.

[@captnsnackbeard6898]

@@majungasaurusaaaa Museums are not supposed to 'be usefull for the public' they are supposed to be areas of knowlege for people that want to aquire that knowledge. If you want your kid climbing on stuff thats fine. But dont go to a Museum for it go to a playground .

[@majungasaurusaaaa]

@@captnsnackbeard6898 They use public funding. So they better serve the public. Like Ian said, they're not even good areas of knowledge anymore. The internet has replaced them in that. That leaves them with preservation as a real purpose unless they change themselves into public friendly places for entry level education. If you don't get a better experience going there than reading wikipedia, it's a waste of ticket money.

[@captnsnackbeard6898]

@@majungasaurusaaaa that still doesnt mean that you let Kids crawl over historically important stuff . Just because a Pool gets public funding it doesnt mean that the Pool has to account for All the other needs of the public. crawling over somerhing,thats what playgrounds are for, not Tanks and Planes so not a Museum displaing said Tanks and Planes.

[@majungasaurusaaaa]

@@captnsnackbeard6898 No one is calling for kids to crawl over real historical stuff. But replicas, hell yes. It's a great way of learning.

[@eezonly1sand0s54]

I see a parallel to the decline of the History and Science channels' content in the early 2000's.

[@Norsesmalfarmer]

yepp, most of the stuff they send on those channals now is soapopras themed to the content they used to send

[@number1yota]

Yeah remember when the history channel was about history, and not dramatized reality shows.

[@slowpokebr549]

excellent point

[@filanfyretracker]

The history channel had good stuff at one time, I will always miss Modern Marvels.

[@TXGRunner]

What? Surely you jest...don't you consider Pawn Stars as credible as Ian or Othias?

[@con6lex]

I noticed that the Smithsonian went from “display as many artifacts as possible” to “show a few key artifacts with displays that tell a story”. This does make it easier for new learners, but I can see how it would frustrate experts and collectors.

[@dizzygunner]

@NerfBeard ' apart from the tiny issue of space, like Ian said in the video, museums do t have the space to show everything they own.

[@davidburke709]

I would refer you to the books on the decisions regarding the Enola Gay exhibit during the anniversary of the Hiroshima bombing. I know a lot of people involved in that debate and unfortunately public pressure matters, especially when it comes to funding.

[@minihjalte]

The danish war museum did the same. They removed a lot of stuff and even destroyed a bunch because the ran out of space.

[@mangalores-x_x]

The argument is flawed. Museums never showed their full collections, but only curated ones. Always have. The mindset changed from "dump all the special artifacts we have" to create a reputation to be a stellar museum (the rarer the items bought or stolen from faraway places as a matter of national pride) to be an open public teaching institute. If you were an expert, you did not visit the open exhibition of a museum, you get an access pass to the full archive of a museum which is usually many times larger than what they show. That has always been the case. It is an attitude change, but not the "Har har, I am so smart, they dumb down for everyone." Traditional museums provide zero context and pretty much zero information on the artifacts they display. They were not meant to teach, they meant to awe you how great your culture is to have them.

[@smo-king6504]

@@mangalores-x_x Facts, if you are really into it start befriending the staff or a specialist or just talk about it with a local university professor

[@virtus12ful]

My great uncle brought back a STG-44 from his tour in Europe in WW2. It had to be rendered inoperable if I remember correctly (either that or changed to semi-auto only), but he brought it back along with an officer’s sword (oddly enough, it had its end chipped off as well, which may have been required to be done so he could keep it). After both he and my great aunt passed away, the STG was donated to a museum in ND. Haven’t held since I was a kid, but it’s a bucket list item to see that museum someday. My great uncle was a complete bad ass. He was at Omaha Beach, 4th wave, and fought in ETO till war’s end. RIP Uncle Ted.

[@Shadooe]

At first glance I though that said he brought back a StuG. "Jeez he was indeed a bad ass..."

[@PeterPetermann]

the museums of my pre-internet childhood were not very different than those today. I'd even make the case that digital enrichment of exhibitions has improved the information flow, and not numbed it.

[@lancejensen9750]

"Mother, father, 2 1/2 children" I hate those groups when I'm on vacation, the blood really ruins Disneyland.

[@lancejensen9750]

@Mike.Litoris it's a terminal diagnosis, thanks for the concern Mr. Litoris, I appreciate it.

[@GeorgeMonet]

Nah that 1/2 child is half of a full child split between two families. The body fluids gets quantumly beamed between both halves.

[@matthewfinch3107]

Geez, try Universal in Orlando. Going through the Harry Potter area. It's nut to butt. And my 19yo went nuts for it and bought his own magic wand. Then at 21 he asked if I had any black pants so he could go out to bars on Halloween as Harry Potter. I just face palm myself.

[@pickledblowfish6178]

@@matthewfinch3107 is only try it, if i get to walk around with a shirt with "Read another book!" Written on it.

[@Dutch1961]

That's curious! Dad could have sworn they had three children when they entered the park.

[@australovenatortomino_1741]

4:53 ''I can go to my own KZbin channel...'' That's a proper flex. Much respect, lol.

[@nonamernobrainer846]

But it *is* accurate, though. The ammount of videos and accurate information on his channel is absolutely impressive.

[@australovenatortomino_1741]

@@nonamernobrainer846 It absolutely is.

[@earlyriser8998]

Could have thrown some love on C&Rsenal though

[@alexanderblackburn4520]

It is so true though, I have learned a lot from this channel. I also loved the old Larry Potterfield videos, where he discussed guns and ammunition.

[@notgraham.7215]

Yall remember the time the French ministry of the interior called HIM to invite him over to see a revolver?

[@whowantsabighug]

"It's all available online" I would love to live in this reality.

[@donnerschwein]

Deutsches Panzermuseum entered the chat.

[@derauditor5748]

"Gun Jesus vs Panzer Jesus"

[@mardiffv.8775]

@@derauditor5748 Battle of the ponytails.

[@majungasaurusaaaa]

@Tickerel My Pickerel Without private collectors unearthing, trading and preserving most of the stuff you see in museums would have been lost.

[@wmopp9100]

Wehrtechnische Studiensammlung entered the chat

[@dave_sic1365]

@@wmopp9100 kostet auch nur 2€.echt ein Glücksfall

[@fredEVOIX]

I call it the "the lost ark" syndrome where items wait for the end of eternity inside a crate hidden somewhere in a basement

[@videodistro]

Wrong. That was a govdernment depository, not a museum. Also, any storage in a museum is designed for long term storage vs. crappy storage conditions.

[@Jake9066]

Where they are guarded by top men?

[@john-paulsilke893]

@@Jake9066 yes, too men.

[@scelonferdi]

The thing is they will eventualy be rediscovered. Maybe not in our or even our great-grandchildrens generation but then the information gleamed from them will be even more valuable, all thanks to save storage and careful preservation in a museum vault. Also the items will often be accesible to academic, professional research just not necessarily to some hobby researchers or enthusiasts (not necessarily true in privately owned museum though). Those professionals produce insights usually new to their entire society/generation not just themselves, although the accesibilty of those insights is another issue. Imho drastically limiting access to these artifacts to only a limited portion of society is worth it if that access is thus maintained for a couple more centuries. It also protects inherent information that might be made available through future technology and would be otherwise never learned.

[@rocksandoil2241]

I recall the shock of a huge room in the top of "Old Main" on the campus of the Univ. of Arkansas, unheated, no humidity control and there were hundreds of Civil War sabers, guns, uniforms and antebellum dresses, hats, etc. all laid out on tables or on racks...It was a sad site. Hopefully, they are better preserved today.

[@0ptera]

"It belongs in a museum" cue wide angle shot of huge warehouse

[@AceOfBlackjack]

A horse neat.

[@ngmtk7t]

Only if it’s Warehouse 13 😜

[@Archangelm127]

Top. Men.

[@aydanoneil7626]

@@ngmtk7t Beat me to it

[@immikeurnot]

Top. Men.

[@PatrickMHoey]

I’ve thought about this so often, as I am certainly of the hybrid generation, in high school in the early aughts, we were still using CD-ROM encyclopedias for research, even though search engines existed the web was hardly media rich.

[@brianbarker2551]

A lot of the backroom collections in museums are now being "digitized", which is usually a photo and write up of an otherwise hidden thing. I've seen some that have gone so far as to allow you to have a 3D tour of "thing" so you can walk through it/move it around/ look at it. I like to think it's the best of the internet and the museums. We can't all get to the Smithsonian or the Louvre, but heck if they can put stuff up on a website and allow us to visit it virtually, that's a win in my book.

[@Cakeyflour]

For today's extra content, we have these Spanish pistols. They are extremely dangerous and could attack at anytime. So, we must deal with it.

[@AkosJaccik]

Not an expected HPC hommage, but a welcome one.

[@moonrazk]

Man, I love his accent. And the fact that he sounds like a grandpa but is actually a young dude.

[@emmavaria]

I laughed because of how much it hurts. Curse you, Imaginary Lauri and Anni!

[@filanfyretracker]

Honestly even the Zip-22 should be kept in attempt to shoot condition, Though with that gun it might self deactivate when you attempt to fire it.

[@stephenreed3381]

@@SmuggestOfRats I'm glad you at least put 'attempting', because based on what I saw in one of Ian's older videos (how I came to learn about him actually!)... That half a magazine won't be fired.

[@henryrodgers7386]

My friend has done exactly that! He got a Zip-22, affectionately called "Catch-22", in a trade, and has it, the box, the paperwork, an original ad, the whole shebang. He collects small, usually cheap "Saturday Night Special" pocket revolvers, too, and other "undesirable" guns, like little 380 semiautos, Iver Johnson 32s, Rohm revolvers, and old Taurus Beretta clones. He doesn't expect them to increase in value, he just finds small, concealable handguns interesting.

[@ABaumstumpf]

Reminds me of how nice museums still used to be when i was a kid - a museum of natural sciences, while still covering a wide spectrum, actually had a lot of interesting things and detailed explanations. Now they are rare, but for example the "Zeughaus" in Graz (austria, tiny country in the middle of europe) still has a very large collection of late medieval age weapons and armors, but the past few years they have also reduced what you can see - still astonishing.

[@PanamaSticks]

After WWII a local veteran created a museum in his private home. He had arms, uniforms, and equipment from the civil war, WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam. He may have also had arms from the American Revolution, but I can't recall. He gave free, detailed tours, and if you were nice, hands on show and tell. He also showed off his Jeep with recoilless rifle and his tank. He also had many model trains, and railroad artifacts. He had a donation bottle but never asked for donations. I was HAPPY to give. The man died and his family took most of the collection. A large, expensive building was built to show the collection, replete with a director and staff who are probably very well paid. I visited once. No more than 1/10th of his collection was on display, all hidden behind glass and roped off. A docent hovered over me constantly as if I was some sort of criminal to be monitored. He did not let me linger more than a couple minutes at any display, and could not give me anything but the most basic info. The admission was expensive too. I will never return. I see that the huge museum is poorly attended. I suspect what remains of the collection will soon be sold to pay the salaries and the building closed. Shame, as the man who owned the collection would've wanted everything on display.

[@ricdintino9502]

At least he's finally come clean about his love of butterflies.

[@protoculture289]

We all have horrible secrets 🤣

[@ChaosBW]

Butterflies are pretty bad ass They drink crocodile and alligator tears and blood

[@michaelporzio7384]

amour des papillons français

[@randystiles230]

LMAO

[@travissmith2211]

To render a firearm useless just to have it be a collector's piece would be like telling a person they can own a Picasso but have to cut half of the canvas off.

[@pd4165]

@@supermoon1430 Except that it's fairly hard to kill anyone with canvas and paint. Comparing something designed to kill people with things designed to provoke thought is childish in the extreme.

[@brockobama8799]

@@pd4165 but the point still stands that rare and vintage guns are art and should be treated with respect, not destroyed for made up reasons

[@aceambling7685]

@@pd4165 the swords,maces, axes, spears, bows, etc etc etc in musuems and collections were almost all designed to kill. Have those weapons been deactivated? Edges and points blunted, strings cut? No. That would be ridiculous.

[@Sgtassburgler]

@@pd4165 You could make a rope with the canvas and choke someone to death with it. You can kill anyone with anything.

[@PaulVerhoeven2]

@@pd4165 It is easy to kill anyone with anything, including a bare finger.

[@sahhull]

Hi from the nanny state UK . I have a customer who collects tracked vehicles... Tanks etc. Before the troubles. He bought a Russian T-72. It wasnt that expensive. The local firearms unit went mental. The police saw the gun as a viable firearm. Ended up. He could keep the autoloader, but had to remove the barrel and breach. He has made a PVC gun that looks very authentic. It will even go bang via shotgun blanks.

[@arifal-yousif]

"You have to be able to fire a gun to really understand it" in regards to understanding the funny reasons for design choices in what eventually become historical artefacts is a great way of describing the importance of experimental archaeology too

[@TacticalTightwad]

"A gun that is donated to a museum and put in the reserve vault will probably never be seen again..." Reminds me of the final scene in "Raiders of the Lost Arc."

[@worldtraveler930]

I am fairly certain that was part of the point that Ian is trying to convey.

[@moosemaimer]

Malcolm Gladwell made that same point in a podcast about the Met in NYC... they were complaining that one of their curators can't even catalog their collection of Persian rugs, because it's so vast it's all in storage. They buy up everything they can get their hands on, lock it away in a vault, and forget about it while they look for something new.

[@kevinsullivan3448]

@@moosemaimer Maybe the curator is just trying to drive up the value of his private collection by removing items from the market...

[@darthXreven]

you think those mammoth skeletons some museums display are the real bones?? not by a long shot....cus if they did display the real bones the bones would disintegrate over time and the skeleton would fall apart so they cast the bones and paint em up to look real then display them and preserve the real bones somewhere safe.... think that sword is real? nope it's a reproduction.....everything we see in a museum is a reproduction to preserve the original or to replace a already ruined original.....

[@marcinossowski3212]

It' rather like searching for ancient technology in Wahrammer 40K :D

[@nicholaspatton5590]

Gun Jesus tearing up “That’s fine.. I guess.” Me too Ian, me too 😔.

[@Christus_Vincit]

😢

[@johnsmith8690]

You can feel the pain in his voice when he said that

[@FoxbatSVK]

When I heard about those deactivation procedures, I was reminded of this: cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/789239384813076531/795210927087681536/absdisgusting.jpg

[@LeverActionBoi]

One time I went to a military vehicle museum in Texas near where I live and I could swear that I knew more about the WW2 section than the curator. I began to suspect this when I asked if the french armored car they had was an EBR (which it was), he responded with "No, that is just a french armored car." Then I asked him about which model of T-34 they had on display (it was a T-34 model 1943), he told me that there was only one model of T-34.

[@agustinromerosimon7704]

When was younger i went to the gun museum in buenos aires and i remember it being really good actually i didnt take many pictures and dont remember much but i recall seeing an experimental AK rifle in 5.56, a Kilobri pistol, a c93 borchardt, a tankgewher rifle, an experimental Argentinian SMG and a ton of artillery pieces, as well as so many c96 mausers im sure there was a red 9 hidden in there somewhere So anyone, specially you Ian, if you read this, if you go to argentina, the National gun museum Tte. Gral. Pablo Riccheri is a really good one

[@skyflier8955]

The “lowest common denominator” really is the downfall of most educational subjects. My dad could be watching tv, and call me in to watch a documentary on WWII aviation that I find rather shit, because it’s not made for people who already know about the subject- they’re made to interest people who don’t already know a whole lot. Another problem is that if you’re actually interested and you’re in a group, you can’t actually enjoy the content. I can’t remember where it was, but I was only in the first room that had a lot of plaques detailing the lead up and beginning of WWII. I wanted to read all of it, and most people skipped through it because there was nothing in the room. I was still in that room, reading while most people were already 1/3 to 1/2 way through the museum. I had to leave and rush through the rooms, and all I could do was “ah, I recognize that, on to the next thing” and it was really a shame.

[@immikeurnot]

My ex was an "artist." She dragged me to art museums where she'd look at the pretty pictures. I spent time reading the plaques on each one before I really bothered looking at them. Always pissed her off that I did that, but I honestly got more out of her education in art than she did, just because I'm a nuts and bolts kind of guy.

[@Wolfshead009]

Or worse, you find you know more about the subject and can point out how wrong something is. I forget what piece I was watching on the P-38 Lightning and was cringing at how much they got wrong.

[@kosmokat111]

@@Wolfshead009 because they want to make the shows entertaining instead of informative. I remember a documentary I watched years ago abt aircraft carriers, and I love it because they went into absurd mechanical detail about a lot of the ship, instead of just trying to big it up.

[@skyflier8955]

@@Wolfshead009 I hate when my dad wants me to come watch something when I know there is much better content that is more concise, goes into more detail, and shorter on KZbin. Independent creators can cater to people who are really interested in the subject and that leads to better content.

[@nobleherring3059]

The real fucking headache is that once you ARE interested in it, it's increasingly hard to find any more in depth information. Just because that lowest common denominator view count harvesting is increasingly dominating the entire infosphere

[@jarrad9615]

Worked in a small military museum- this is very true, when we were trying to find out more about, not just the firearms we had, but things like personal equipment and webbing, the internet, particularly re-enactors and collectors forums, were invaluable for finding information about what we had in the vault. As an example, we had a C96 that we knew was captured in 1917, and we knew the name of the man who donated it to us. Using the serial number on the firearm, plus what I was able to research about the parts/versions, we were able to greatly expand what we knew about the C96 that we had on display. The C96 was purchased between 1910 and 1913 by a military academy graduate who personally purchased it as a sidearm- he purchased it in Austria for quite a high sum based on the brochure I found from the period, so was likely upper or middle class, he then carried it into the war at some point between 1914 and 1917, and using the records we had from the name of the donator, was in northern France within a 50KM area where that donor’s ambulance unit was stationed. He claimed to have won the pistol during a card game with soldiers who had been further towards the front, but I was not able to find out if the original owner surrendered or was killed.

[@mwnciboo]

..or was part of the Card game ;)

[@IIIVI]

You really expected a re-enactor and internet forums to tell you the exact history of an INDIVIDUAL pistol thats over 80 years old? Thats on you, bud.

[@jerrell1169]

@@IIIVI I uh, I don’t think you know what invaluable means. That or you read the comment wrong. Invaluable, unlike other words with the prefix in means “very valuable”. I dunno why either so don’t ask me. But either way the original commenter is saying that re-enactors and such are VERY useful in finding info about historical objects out.

[@TheFalloutRaider]

@@jerrell1169 Seems like a troll comment, or he is really dense. It's pretty obvious that they were talking about the internet being invaluable in general and that the general knowledge about C96's online allowed them to further identify and trace the individual piece.

[@racingginger3147]

@@TheFalloutRaider troll comments are supposed to have at least a HINT of humor or a sign that theyre trolling. This guy is either the worlds least funny troll, or he's just straight up stupid.

[@sarcastic.not.unkind]

That moment when you walk into a museum in Berlin and see the impressive steam locs, made by German companies which nowadays mostly just make kitchen appliances

[@22beesjustvibin67]

well... stand mixers can be so fucking complex.

[@bwhog]

I'm not a fan of stuffing everything in a museum even though I used to be fascinated by museum displays. For me, I changed my mind about them when I learned about what has been called "the tragedy of the Stradivarius". That's the phenomenon where more and more Stradivarius violins are ending up in either storage by symphony orchestras and never removed because they're too valuable or they are ending up in museums on display. In either case, at that point, they are basically forever silenced. What makes a Strad valuable is the sound, when in the hands of someone who knows how to get the most out of it, yet fewer and fewer of these are in private hands any longer. What's more, for something like that to last, it has to be cared for and being used is part of that care. (Consider how fast a vacant building disintegrates vs one that is kept occupied and notice that the occupied structure does NOT generally receive a considerable amount of maintenance.) That doesn't happen in a museum and these are going to have a tendency to deteriorate over time. In the case of arms, the best understanding comes from being able to handle them, actually see how the parts move in relation to each other, and experience using them. Can't be done when they're all locked away. Same with deactivation. The surplus arms treaty, for example, is a really tragic thing for military and firearms historians, etc.

[@jarink1]

One thing a museum can do that is impossible online or from a book is to give you a personal connection to an object. I remember going to the NMUSAF a few years ago and stood next to the B-29 BOCKSCAR. Suddenly I realized I was next to the actual plane that destroyed Nagasaki, helping to end WWII. To say I felt a chill go up my spine is an understatement.

[@xxAntiOtakuxx]

The NMUSAF is a unique museum, where they try to display everything they get. They even opened a new hanger dedicated to all the Air Force Ones that they have. If they get something they don't have room for, they put it out in the field where it can be seen until they do. They did that with the AC-130.

[@imnotirishok]

I spent 4 hours in the NASM in DC. Being in the same room as the X-1 and the Spirit of St. Louis is an awe-inspiring feeling

[@JoJo-vm8vk]

"Forgotten Weapons" channel on KZbin is probably already the biggest weapon museum 😋

[@Tunkkis]

Or perhaps his website, with articles written by folks from around the world on subjects that may not ever get their own video on the KZbins. Wink wink ;).

[@briangleason5597]

Amen.

[@worldtraveler930]

Just imagine if his virtual museum was a physical entity as well 🤤.

[@ldkbudda4176]

Until leftists and Kamala Haris WILL forbid ALL gun chanells!

[@worldtraveler930]

@@ldkbudda4176 She will Also create Special Gulags for people like You.

[@ObservationofLimits]

Ian, my friend and I are working towards running for government legislative positions. We both agree history is hugely important (moreso than college sports) and one of the big things I, personally, would like to see is more museums. I remember going to the NYC Natural History Museum on a day trip and being utterly devastated that I could only read about 1/4 of the signs the day we visited. As an adult, no longer living near NYC nor DC, I realized how few and far between museums can be. That's a shame. The most emotionally and *morally* impactful things have come from museum displays I later researched further. I know there's the whole, "those who refuse to learn from history shall suffer the same mistakes" saying and variant, but I also believe that those who never learn, and thus comprehend what we *accomplished* with far fewer tools (specifically remembering millionth of an inch accuracy with hand tools/gears/equipment and hexagonal barrels), the reasons *why* we accomplished them, and those who are otherwise deprived from such a wide gamut of fields, deprive entire generations of potential geniuses I'm a millwright/machinist by trade and every time I go back to research space race equipment, or even manually machined barrels for WWI and WWII battleships (I personally worked at and repaired lathes that did such things), or even read about how ancient civilizations stared at the the stars and found *accurate* ways to track and measure them, it fills me with a little bit of hope. I'm not an inventor. I'm the guy who figures out how to build what the inventor wants. But I'm ok with that. I just fear that in recent times, we (not you or I, but the government and other entities) have crippled the upbringing of a new generation of inventors.

[@robertwarner5963]

There is a finite amount of human knowledge and it is slowly being sucked into our electronic devices/internet. Having studied all of the widely-used airplanes and guns of the 20th century, I now enjoy reading about the more obscure guns and airplanes. Fortunately, specialiasts like Ian provide short snippets of information about some of the more obscure guns.

[@antoniobeltranthesumosnipe8634]

"and I've offended enough already" You do have a set of deuling pistols somewhere in your collection?

[@undauntedthud692]

You sir have offended my honor! You can't even have a fist fight any more let alone a duel.

[@letsburn00]

Those Wax ones he did would work pretty well.

[@vulpsturm]

Anyone want to comment on that statue in blackface behind him? Or is just me?

[@dakel20]

@@vulpsturm It's just a brass statue.

[@schore69]

@@letsburn00 just waited for sombody to point that out!

[@mustang5132]

This is really true. Watching the London Imperial War Museum change over time from a massive archive of historic war pieces to a dumbed down minimalist Wikipedia introduction has been very sad.

[@TheJttv]

That is the public side of the museum. The archives still exist.

[@COIcultist]

@@TheJttv Whilst it is great that the archive exists it somewhat rendered pointless if the there is a trite shite general display.

[@steveclarke6257]

Just made the same comment on the IWM North...☹️

[@RandomUser-cx9kn]

The IWM nowadays is quite honest in telling you it has no interest in being a war museum but some sort of "social display of conflict": their only exposition worth a damn is their admittedly good Holocaust floor. Everything else, I've seen better in run down museums in Eastern Europe, and I'm not joking.

[@omgponies111]

@@RandomUser-cx9kn I went there last year and I was disappointed. It was cool to see tanks and planes but I didn't really learn anything. HMS Belfast is good though as it gave me a greater understanding on how serving on a warship actually was like.

[@novicereloader]

I hadn't realized, until now, why I have completely lost interest in museums.

[@fullofstars123]

Ian provides an interesting view on the state of modern museums here, as someone who spent several years volunteering at a local history museum, here are my thoughts. The museum I worked at was large, but sadly received little funding from the government (both local and national) and depended on people paying entrance fees as well as donations from private individuals and other historical appreciation societies. The museum has always been underfunded, ever since it was founded in the late 70s. Money has always been a problem for smaller museums, so its no surprise that smaller museums (including the one I worked for) have had to shift their focus onto a wider audience in an effort to secure more money. As for the artefacts, it is true, there were hundreds upon hundreds of smaller pieces we kept locked away in an archive, mostly due to the fact that some of them simply had nowhere else to go and didn't really fit into any current exhibits, some of it had been there since the 70s and never properly accessioned/catalogued. This brings me to my next point, despite being a specialist museum, the men who originally opened and maintained the museum were themselves not academics, rather men who had been involved in the field that the museum catered to, whilst these well meaning, lovely gentlemen had an undeniable affinity for their work and a solid degree of practical knowledge, they had no academic background. Most of the museum's artefacts were without proper descriptions or research, many objects were inherited from private collections of now deceased friends and associates of museum staff who regrettably sometimes left little to no information about the objects they've left behind. Because of this giant, historical backlog, it was down to the present curator, myself and several other volunteers to properly catalogue nearly 1,000 items of varying size, provenance and condition (not an easy task by any means, and one that we sadly were not able to finish during my time there). Regarding horrible museums, we did on a couple of occasions find ourselves cooperating with another historical society full of total frauds, we ended up inheriting half of their collection when they filed for bankruptcy only to be contacted by various individuals demanding their personal collections be returned to them. Despite the fact that we were assured (in writing) that all items inherited were the sole property of the historical society, nearly two thirds of the items were actually borrowed (and sometimes had been stolen) from other sources, meaning we ended up having to give back a decent chunk of new artefacts. The historical society itself was also suspected of nepotism and generally being a money making scam of sorts, as it was discovered that they'd sold off vehicles and artefacts to private parties and even other museums without informing the original lenders, usually making up the excuse that the items had been stolen, simply lost in a move or never actually received. Museums are like anything else, there's a sliding scale of quality, and poorer quality museums are either the result of a workforce that doesn't care or a lack of money driving a museum to take on a more market conscious approach to their work.

[@jaquo25]

Destroying historical firearms, it's like when they painted clothes on the frescoes of the Renaissance artists, only worse.

[@bwood6337]

I didn't know that happened. It's upsetting to know that happened.

[@SelecaoOfMidas]

And I thought the "beast Jesus" incident was bad... 😱

[@kino_61]

Where?

[@RodFleming-World]

@@bwood6337 all over Europe, art was defaced in this way and the tide of moralising repression is rising again. This time the impetus comes not from religion but feminism - which is itself a religious cult, of course.

[@nobelissimos8719]

@@RodFleming-World Leftist ideologies and insanity have destroyed so much history and good (and lives) in this world. A plague on mankind. How many statues have they torn down in recent years for flimsy and uneducated excuses...

[@kelseyhurst9408]

Personal head cannon: Ian's hobbies are collecting guns, butterflies, and gem stones in that order.

[@gegethedog]

but what about hats thooooo?

[@1Notten]

@@gegethedog He has already collected all the hats

[@dutch_asocialite]

Why do you have a cannon in your head?

[@knutboehnert3163]

Well, one needs to understand which guns to use to hunt gem stone carrying butterflies

[@danielrobertson2154]

@@knutboehnert3163 perfection.

[@eugeneforshter9564]

That is exactly what I felt after visiting WW2 museums for the past decade - I am leaving without learning anything new :(

[@konasteph]

Speaking strictly about the Arsenal in Vienna, Austria, I would like to share that there are historic areas including the uniforms, exhibits of historic battle scenes, paintings, models, yes real guns OF COURSE! But all in scene settings ..there are steel bunkers hit by HUGE shells with chunks gouged out, WW1, WW2, whole tanks, etc etc. Not every city in the world can do all that... so the experience of this kind of a museum is significant...and never forget the coffee house with view of WW1 aircraft hanging from the ceiling. Well, the philosophy of what a museum is actually supposed to do.

[@makeitbetter.1402]

Ians new (non-offensive) channel: Forgotten Butterflies

[@jakethadley]

"DARPA did run a series of experiments across multiple species, but was able to obtain directed hurricanes at no better odds than random chance. The program was quietly wound down and funding diverted to the laser-beam shark program."

[@tenofprime]

Give them very tiny guns and I am sure you could get him in on at least 1 video

[@extrastuff9463]

For now! Just wait for a future where PETA discovers it exists: "look this channel has many butterflies that used to be alive, now they are pinned in place by this evil collector"

[@alsmamfkm5182]

A series on butterfly knives perhaps?

[@paulg2380]

I'm very much looking forward for the future channel haha

[@Anubis_Priest]

People don't understand that to a person who admires the history and engineering of a firearm, "neutering" or deactivating a firearm is like taking paint thinner to the Mona Lisa's face or a jackhammer to the David: as much as an art aficionado would find these a horror, deactivation of a firearm is just as bad to us.

[@Slane583]

It reminds me of the army tank on display at a recreation park a few miles from my house. The Army National Guard of Vermont donated a "deactivated" M60A3 Patton years ago. To make it "safe for display" the barrel was filled with concrete, the engine/power-pack unit was removed, all hatches were welded up, and the track links were welded to the drive cogs. You'd think removing its' engine and welding the hatches closed was enough but nope. Gotta weld up everything that looks like it might move. Totally disgusting imo.

[@ninjabeast289]

@@Slane583 there one in my town and my grandmother lived near it and I would play on it as a child. It was welded and neutered but it did still spur a lifelong interest in armored fighting vehicles. Now it makes me sad when I drive by it knowing that the beast that could frontally knock out anything on the battlefield at the time is a rotting hunk of steel.

[@Slane583]

@@ninjabeast289 I live in upstate NY/ Adirondacks. So as far as any museums that we might have they're all mainly related to this area, the Revolutionary War/Civil War kind of stuff. Sadly there isn't anything related to armored vehicles. So seeing the one army tank on display stripped of its' engine and then welding into place just upsets me. It makes you wonder on what their logic or lack of behind welding it in place is. You'd figure once the engine/power pack is gone it can't move. If the hatches are welded up no one can get in. So it's not like it's just going to roll away.

[@stephenbarker5162]

Living in the UK where gun ownership is highly regulated, many people are shocked when we see on the news people carrying military grade weapons in public places in the USA. The stricter de-activation rules are probably the result of previously deactivated guns being re-activated usually for use by criminals. As for the Mona Lisa unless the frame falls off the wall or David falls off his plinth they will not kill you, I appreciate that there are many people who genuinely interested in the history and development of firearms and how different weapons compare. Unfortunately that minority who misuse firearms present a risk to the wider public. The UK and Japan have comparatively low murder rates compared to the USA especially from guns and if deactivation effectively welds a gun shut that is considered a price worth paying.

[@Slane583]

@@automaticninjaassaultcat3703 I understand the hatches being welded. A kid even being on top of it in the first place would get them hurt. But it's not located at a museum, it's in a recreation park. We don't have any armor museums in my area. The same recreation park has a decommissioned naval gun out in front of the building in the parking lot area that kids can easily get on. So I see no difference. Kids can hurt them selves on that just as easily if not easier.

[@MrWolfSnack]

Not all musuems are for the greater good. There is a difference between understanding vintage [object] and caring for it while still demonstrating its intended purpose so long as its not abused for that purpose. It's not artwork. So many old car musuems, cars that were "restored" in the millions of dollars, have baking pans under the engine to catch oil leaks because the brand new seals have dry rotted and shrunken or crumbled away because the engine was never started or driven to hone in the new parts after restoration, so the engines are now locked up and need a total restoration all over again. I was at the Petersen once and a 1920s town car that was something like $3 mil value, I forgot the maker, I could see the tires were all crumbling and split apart from a 25 year old restoration and the car was never driven after restoring it, so it just begun rotting again. The big problem is museums collect to invest and pad their wallet, not for preservation.

[@jailbird1133]

The Peterson actually drives the cars in their collection for the most part. Likely it had either been recently donated, or was on loan from a collector or museum.

[@danbandito]

I’ve learned a ton of information from this channel. I often refer people to your videos when they have a question about some obscure firearm.

[@herosstratos]

I think the change came well before the internet with the introduction of the paradigm of “economy“ or “market competition“ for museums. Only museums that have a large number of visitors also receive appropriate funding.

[@vherodoom7439]

Tank chat on KZbin is a great example of a museum that uses the internet right. Super detailed.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Yes, it really is!

[@Varadiio]

The Tank Museum is just outstanding in general. The idea that they maintain these vehicles to the point of drivable status, and even drive them around in mud for the public once a year, is completely bonkers from the perspective nearly any other museum.

[@mrclaw4715]

I'm from the UK and during high school when learning about the world wars we had a genuine Lee Enfield mk 3 brought in to show us what they were using at the time and the entire barrel up until the chamber was plugged with concrete. You could still rack the bolt and pull the trigger to make it go click but no firing pin and concrete barrel. They at least told us how quickly a trained soldier was able to fire those things and then allows us to attempt to see how quickly we could fire as the bolt and trigger still worked but damn it was cool. Wish it didn't weigh as much as a barrel full of concrete sounds.

[@Brandon-wc1lu]

The King’s Saddlery museum in Sheridan, Wyoming is a lot of fun for anyone interested in the old west and especially western saddles. They have a fair number of old Winchester’s and the like. Lots of cool, antique tools and old photographs from the area. It’s free to get in, they’re great people and you can take all the pictures you want. Plus it’s a really neat town in general.

[@greatscott636]

The death of the museum is so depressing, and no one even notices..

[@irregularassassin6380]

Scott B the worst part is that they are still doing plenty of good, even the one my mom worked at until recently, despite their commercialization. But everyone here is writing them off completely like they're already dead dinosaurs, and that will kill them faster than anything.

[@boxcarthehusky420]

Railroad Muesums are still alive, alot of the things in them are the only remaining example.

[@MJA5]

"and no one even notices" that idea points back to the death of the museum. The value of a museum or of artifacts of historical interest is inculcated as part of an education process. When society no longer maintains the value, the effort to perpetuate it diminishes. Current society seems to value very little apart from flippant social media flaps, fast food, and fake news.

[@arachnonixon]

up there w/ the death of the library. R.I.P.

[@FarrYaweh]

The museum nearest to me was completely relocated and refreshed in the last 3 years, and it's a simply amazing facility with massive sprawling rooms dedicated to specific areas of interest all under one roof. The jewel section within the geological focus room is simply breathtaking

[@arduinoversusevil2025]

Further to your "need to fire it to understand it": Antikythera mechanism. Clickspring (on youtube endeavored) to build it and in so doing discovered an unknown lunar calendar...

[@music-jn3wn]

Yes. Brilliant work. Knowledge needs to be as hands on as possible . Theory only goes so far. Oh..hey AvE. Happy new year .

[@arduinoversusevil2025]

@@music-jn3wn appy new beer to you Music.

[@brantregare]

He rediscovered a forgotten lunar calendar. Keep your ?ick in a vice.

[@whitey129]

Can I not fucking go anywhere without learning something from you? (ps. nice to see my #2 favourite channel turn up on my #1 favourite.;) )

[@twigglykevin]

Èturn in your armsÈ the government will take care of you Èinsert photo of sitting bull hereÈ

[@KC-bg1th]

On one hand, I love that museums will document and maintain firearms. On the other hand, EVERY firearm I own needs to have some sort of historical prevalence. Even if it's a stretch. I'm a Canadian gun owner, and can't own an AK. What cooler gun to own than a Type 81, which is AK-ish in appearance, but has the historical prevalence of being a weird sort of stop-gap rifle that was created because of China's temporary inability to manufacture Type 56 AKs.

[@szaborubin2856]

Deutches museus flugwerft schleißheim is an amazing place with some amazing workers, I got to talking with one and he ended up letting us into all sorts of aircraft, even letting us try on helmets, talk numbers, and a great breakdown of their bf109, even let us take pictures in the cockpit. The good ones are out there, just have to sort the wheat from the chaff.

[@Janus2407]

you need to differentiate between public and private museums and university collections. They all have different approaches. university collection are what you described as the old museums. highly specific and sometimes closed to the public. private museums need to ear money. public museums need to serve the public so they both can't be too specific

[@stephenland9361]

The "really good stuff" that a large museum owns rarely goes on display. It's kept away from the public, downstairs, in drawers or boxes. Museums like The Smithsonian and the British Museum have so much stuff, some of it hasn't been properly studied and catalogued. (That's a job for university graduate students and the newly hired staff.) It's usually available only to professionals in the field of study pertinent to the material. Historians get to examine rare manuscripts, paleontologists get to examine fossils etc. The material on display attracts the paying public and helps to fund the museum while also (hopefully) educating the public.

[@alanblinzler985]

I fully agree with your observations about museums, but the internet fails as an alternative and providing a more generalist approach is often good. To acess the information found on the internet you must know enough to ask the question. Simply exploring a new subject thoroughly and in any detail is virtually impossible with some basic knowledge to frame a search request. The museum used to offer, and good ones still do, not only exposure to basic information, but also the ability to follow the train of thought that basic information inspired. As such the Museum (and this is especially true for Arms Museums), if visited, act as the first exposure to knowledge on a subject; exposing visitors to information and questions they never would have thought to investigate via the internet. Compounding the issue is our accelerating need for instant awareness and gratification. No longer do most take the time to gain enough knowledge to ask for more. The consequence can be seen in the inane comments from many in the anti gun community. Their lack of knowledge, even basic knowledge, is appalling. Walking through the NRA Museums in Virginia or Springfield, Missouri or the Cody in Wyoming would be an enlightening experience for a few. In that regard Museums, especially those with exhibits that are designed more for the generalist, still play a vital role.

[@MajoraZ]

That's part of the problem, though. What's even the point of doing the research on those other pieces if you aren't going to then allow the general public to access and learn from that research? Museums need to invest in open access policies.

[@SacredMilkOG]

How simple could it be to work at a museum, and does it pay well? Really sounds fun actually...

[@SacredMilkOG]

@@MajoraZ Or more trustworthy people need to come forward and help study this stuff :) I'd love to do that.

[@stephenland9361]

@@SacredMilkOG "How simple could it be to work at a museum, and does it pay well?" Never having been employed at a museum, I'm hardly the one to ask but (that means I'll give an answer), I suppose it depends on what you want to do. Work at the front desk selling tickets, behind the counter at the snack stand or work on the actual, artifacts and plan, create and display them. My guess is that educational requirements go from barely getting past grade ten all the way up to a PhD. As for pay, if you want to get rich I suggest looking elsewhere.

[@KrKrypton]

My company (army) got called to a museum to check out some ordnance that was donated and they wanted to put on display. Turns out some of the stuff was still live. They asked us to check out the rest of the items they had on display and several items were found to be live. We took them and destroyed them (had to, live items were a no-no and the army doesn't inert, that's the marines and it's very risky business). If you donate something, make sure it's functionally inoperative. If you can't tell, call a pro.

[@cliveevrall1071]

Thank you Ian for your very interesting and knowledgeable articles. Some time ago I visited Birmingham proof house as part of a pre-arranged party. It has a very significant firearms museum incorporated within it's testing facility and is utterly fascinating as a historic building. Their visitors book contains the signature of the duke of wellington for instance. I suggest that you google them to ask for permission to visit them next time you are in England. If you could do a programme from there it would be hugely popular I am sure. The guide who took us round was both extremely knowledgeable and welcoming and it is situated conveniently close to New Street railway station. I absolutely guarantee that a visit would not dissapoint you.

[@Pusher97]

“Soft Spanish Steel” was my nickname in high school.

[@shadowderper8930]

w a H t

[@issackliener3065]

F in the chat for you, my friend.

[@lerp5555]

@@issackliener3065 your comment belongs in a museum

[@Hybris51129]

Talk to your doctor today to see if Cialis is right for you.

[@coffeboss2]

Spanish steel IS famous for being soft? Im spanish and i never Heard that Not mád, just curius nwn

[@irusvzi]

You can hear the pain in his voice when he talks about them being crushed

[@kenibnanak5554]

The problem with having too narrow a niche in your museum is no one but collectors will buy admission tickets. I knew a woman whose Dad was a Curator at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, back in the days when they survived on endowments and had free admission. His salary was pretty low by comparison with other middle class residents of Manhattan. Later when they began to charge for admission some salaries went up. I also knew the owner of a Civil War uniform museum. back in the pre Gettysburg movie days. That movie kept his museum going maybe a year longer, but eventually it had to close it's doors. I have no idea what happened to the 75 or so correct uniforms he had assembled over the decades. The funding is always a problem and having exhibits the whole family wants to see (vs a bunch of manniquins wearing old clothes) probably generates more income. Sure self endowment with a cargo ship full of cash works for awhile. I remember seeing the gun collection at Harold's Club museum. in Reno, Nevada. An awesome collection. But eventually the Casino was sold and so too was the collection. Anything given to a museum will probably eventually be sold or traded. A collector of guns shouldn't even worry about what happens to the guns after death. If totally worried, sell it to a younger collector.

[@WhiteWulfe]

Another big problem museums face: cost. Like others have mentioned, most are forced to run like a business in order to stay alive, and when some of them have relatively prime real estate (in order to make it easier for people to get to it in the first place), that adds even more to their overhead, and they wind up doing things like jacking up the costs of a single ticket, which makes it even harder for the average person to justify. To get into the art museum here it's a whopping $26 per person... Oh wait, they've apparently changed such, it's now $14, so a lot more affordable than the last time I looked. The Royal Alberta Museum just a few blocks away is apparently $19 per person. Edmonton Space and Science Center (now known as Telus World of Science, and noooowhere near as specialized as it used to be) is $24.95 for a combo ticket per adult. I used to love visiting the Space and Science Center, because it had so much variety and interest in it, but now it's just... Well, truthfully, it comes across as mostly generic "entertain the whole family" when you look at their site, and then the price hits you.

[@unnatural_log6472]

Hearing you talk about deactivation kinda broke my heart. Just one of the ways society is systematically destroying our own history.

[@sciencecompliance235]

Yeah, you can't really understand the technology without it being able to move and probably fire to be quite honest.

[@TXGRunner]

Apparently the government in New South Wales went after museums with firearms (and big guns, and tanks) forcing them to permanently de-mil them. Funny, I don't remember any stories of heroin addicts stealing a Panzer II to rob a 7-11 for quick cash...I kind of think I'd remember that story.

[@kevingambrell]

Go into the London science museum twenty years ago and the lines and lines of beautiful models and exhibits referencing steam engines was incredible! Walk into the same today and the rows of models and exhibits have been replaced by a gift shop and a coffee shop! Ian you are spot on in what you say.

[@antonioarroyas7662]

I agree with you 100%, the question in my mind is why? Google "The Science Museum Group annual report and accounts 2018 to 2019". Without adequate funding they will continue to become theme parks.

[@carbon1255]

Science & industry museum in Manchester is great, as many engines as they can fit. Its not just museums that suffer coffeeshopitis, many garden centres now have more coffee shop than plants, no joke, and before the emergence of fancy collectors hardbacks bookshops were even going that way.

[@carbon1255]

@@antonioarroyas7662 The problem is that the themeparking is why nobody goes to museums anymore. Catering to teachers interests has left them WITHOUT a general market.

[@Betrix5060]

@@carbon1255 Mind elaborating on that teachers interest part?

[@jpmoney384]

Earlier this year we went to a museum and while we had a great time, we couldn't help but notice that I have more items pertaining to some of their exhibits than the exhibits did. I think another problem is the old idea that 'if you can't have the original, have a model' has come crashing into the idea that 'models are for old people'. I know one person who makes museum quality models and they're 50+ years older than me. At the same time, I've seen some museum models in need of restoration that are in the care of academic curators who lack the skills to restore them-which seems to go along with what Ian was saying about guns. At the same time though, I've been to some museums with excellent models and a well maintained gun collection...

[@dylanmoore7466]

I love when you do videos like this discussing important topics

[@asinglelemon]

I think it’s great you made this video as I treat your KZbin channel as a sort of museum. I hear a small interesting quirk about some obscure firearm, naturally you already have an in-depth guide on every facet of history to that gun. Keep up the great work!

[@thelotuslover4757]

Ian is low key good at writing comedic, mundane frames and dialogs for his openings

[@DeadEndGoose]

For who he is and what he does, it is kind of a random skill

[@IxodesPersulcatus]

Specialist isn't born in a maternity ward. Specialist is born when a layman discovers something that grasps them so much they want to dedicate their life to it.

[@CaptainCraigKWMRZ]

They isn't?

[@vetbaitednv]

@@CaptainCraigKWMRZ ?

[@salvagemonster3612]

The guns at the House on the Rock. 79 % cast copies and the kind you can get for cheap props. I was there in 2020 spring. I filmed them for reference. With the poor lighting at first I did not notice. Then I started to see. Pot metal, painted plastic, cast etc. the kind you’d find from Atlanta Cutlery.

[@user-jw4yf2dm4m]

There is a museum down south that has a bunch of Webley Fosbury revolvers and little interest in them but can't dispose of them