It's Hammerer Time!

[@Dialepunk]

The flame canon was equipped with the Master Rune of Disguise, which grants it Stalk and Snipe. I think it could have fired in the back of Archeon's army without ever getting spotted.

[@saltedllama2759]

But then it isn't a Hammerer doomstack; it's a lord, six heroes, and a flame cannon doing the bulk of the work while Hammerers just hold the line or play clean up.

[@MEGABUMSTENCH]

@@saltedllama2759 doomstack doesnt have to be all one unit my dude

[@Weiswolfe]

@@saltedllama2759 is not how doomstack works

[@morgothbauglir8706]

@@saltedllama2759 ok so skaven gun team is not a doomstack? lol

[@doma7956]

@@saltedllama2759 L take

[@ZoMbi5lAy3r]

This is definitely one of the Hammerer stacks of all time

[@loowick4074]

My favourite moment is when he said it's "hammerin' time!" And hammered all over those norscans. (This is not a joke... It's literally what happened)

[@n00bswillruleall]

Don't forget about the legendary lord siege attacker. Since Thorgrim had it, they might have wanted to use the flame cannon.

[@benb4557]

Was going to say this but you beat me to it

[@juselara02]

Exactly what I thought

[@jimbob4447]

No, it has a master rune of disguise giving it stalk and snipe.

[@mongopoju]

I think the cannon is for destroying towers

[@halwakka504]

@@mongopoju If that were so he likely would have had grudge throwers.

[@Dan0Dead0Or0Alive]

The rune of Hearth & Home, the passive AOE one got massively buffed in WH3. It regenerates vigor for nearby units, basically giving them perfect stamina. Since melee units lose 25% melee defense and attach along with 30% armor, this def helps a lot with this hammerer stack.

[@khelgarironfist3301]

Plenty of people still are not aware how heavy vigour debuffs are and how early it kicks in.

[@xathlak]

That change made it their best ability.

[@Bolty206]

9:40 - The game does actually let you know when spells are on cooldown or ready to go on a unit's card for other spells! It's just less noticeable compared to Dwarfs, as the only difference is whether there's a glowing light for the spell or if it's disappeared. If there is a light, the spell that light corresponds to can be used! Obviously not easy to use given that there can be 6 lights for 6 different spells, but it is there!

[@grimsmiles3780]

I like the new rating system and the Cannon may have been for added dps it looked like it had stalk and maybe snipe

[@gunthereinritterdesheilige8436]

Maybe against enemy ranged units

[@buzzertjeman]

Siege?

[@EmhyrvarSpice]

@@buzzertjeman Thorgrim has siege attacker. So it would have been just to blow up towers then.

[@klonvomhaus]

The current system is a 9 point keyword system. With 3 different categories and a rough value of "good" "bad" or "middling", with nuance provided by additional words. This is basically just a rating from 1/10 to 10/10 depending on how many "very goods" you can get, but you don't count the points in the end.

[@nobunagahiro426]

Hi legend, I have a suggestion I think it is better to use the same method you used for rating the legendary lord. which is rating (using numbers) the practicality, strength and how easy to use, and then divide it by 3 to give us the final score.

[@zackfritz9491]

Yeah, this was my thinking as well.

[@MrOmid1955]

@NobunagaHiro, I had this thought as well. The only issue there is the problem of assigning numbers to something that is somewhat subjective and nuanced. I am sure @LegendofTotalWar considered this but decided to go with words to remain somewhat flexible in terms of his ranking.

[@xangry2834]

honestly this word ratings kind of makes it not as easy to understand and makes it less interesting for me personally. i wish he'd consider your suggestion

[@AndroidPoetry]

Yes, 100 times yes

[@werrkowalski2985]

It requires more thinking and can be annoying.

[@Witch_King]

Giants, Feral Manticores, now Hammerers. What's next, Stormvermins doomstack?

[@kubka4]

Maybe when they drastically buff them in the future in some alternative universe :D

[@soundscapemusic8980]

We’ve seen a grail reliquary doom stack so I wouldn’t rule out anything

[@kubka4]

@@soundscapemusic8980 That was Okoii doomstack so... :D

[@SofaMuncher]

After 6 years its nice to finally see the hammerers represent!

[@theravendelve987]

The 3.5 roentgen of doomstacks

[@gustavosanches3454]

Legend: "In all honesty, you won't meet those kinds of armies in IE" Me, having to fight a keeper of secrets with soul grinders doomstack at turn 12 as Oxyotl: "ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT? ;-;"

[@davidthane9002]

I had a nice 19 Kharybdis + Dreadlord Army yesterday in my Woodelves campaign. That took quite a while....

[@Lersion]

That flame cannon wasn't there for siege attacker, because Thorgrim himself has that now.

[@saltedllama2759]

If you need the flame cannon to make this stack work, then it isn't a Hammerer doom stack.

[@ShiftySheriff2]

@@saltedllama2759 If YoU nEeD a VaMpIrE sPeLlCaStEr ItS nOt A sKeLeToN dOoMsTaCk

[@halwakka504]

@@saltedllama2759 The title says hammerer doomstack because he clearly didn't notice that the flame cannons had rune of disguise.

[@swarlsonegger5021]

I don't think the flame canon is there as a siege attacker, as all legendary lords have the siege trait, no?

[@saltefan5925]

Only your faction leader

[@griffinmckenzie7203]

Even if that were true (which it's not), what's better; blowing a couple holes in the wall from a distance and then charging your army in or sending your lord - the character who's death does leadership damage to your entire army - in by himself to whack a big door for a while?

[@Myrsky13711]

@@griffinmckenzie7203 He means so you can assault walls without waiting to build a ram/tower. Not so you can attack gates.

[@Pyroksyllin]

@@saltefan5925 and he is playing as Karaz-a-Karak, so Thorgrim IS a faction leader, and no need in siege attackers

[@JustSome462]

@@griffinmckenzie7203 Thorgrim is a siege attacker as is every single legendary lord, it was added recently. Also having siege attacker doesn't mean Thorgrim needs to personally bash down the gates

[@neweden.]

I really like the new rating system, honestly getting tired of seeing hero stacks the entire time, one of my all time favorites was the white lions of chrace doom stack and that one turned a unit that nobody really used into a doomstack.

[@tommyservo9660]

"I don't like it... therefore this army is trash" - LoTW, 2022

[@andrewka6446]

Dude nailed the idea of this army

[@joeriandries]

i like the idea of the rating system, but for me it seems better if you do still give scores (/10 or even /5) on each part, and then maybe just add it all up in the end for a total score (say for this one, maybe it gets 7/10 across the board, so total score would be 21/30). that gives probably the best idea of the strength and utility of the doomstack

[@grimgoreironhide9985]

MC Hammer would be proud! Can’t touch this!

[@Ren99510]

I like the new rating system, but I do wish that you'd use all the units submitted. If a unit does badly then that should affect the rating, but if it does well and adds to the effectiveness it should too, you shouldn't just discard units lol. It was clearly submitted like that on purpose with the flamecannons on stalk and snipe.

[@daedalusdreamjournal5925]

it's clobbering time !

[@bovinehamster]

You don’t need a siege attacker, all legendary lords come with siege attacker now 🎉

[@svenbrede6151]

STOP! HAMMERER TIME

[@7shelties]

Too much pressure!

[@UnintentionalSubmarine]

You can easily make your new system into a 10 point system. Practicality: Astoundingly impractical (0 points), Impractical (1), usable (2), easily made (3) Power: Weak (0), Not very strong (1), ok (2), strong (3) Ease of use: Very hard (0), hard (1), meh (2), easy (3) And a final point of 'Do I like it or not'.

[@tylerw2841]

New rating system is a big improvement imo! The practicality part is very important. Getting 15 or 18 of a hero for any faction is far end game and by then you already won. Sadly most campaigns feel done by turn 50 in warhammer 3 imo cause nothing really challenges you… so getting 15 or 19 fully decked out hero’s seems pointless. One day CA will give AI the cheats they need to maybe stand a chance lol. Keep being a legend legend!

[@riley_028]

Something I think you missed is that the Flame Cannon has stalk and snipe

[@JohnnyTightIips]

I'd been keeping to the tried and tested warriors/longbeards/ironbreakers, backed up with quarrelers and grudge throwers for my dwarf campaigns in TW3, but this is making me wanna try a full on hammerer stack.

[@josstroeven2380]

whelp time to start another dwarf campaign

[@commonurlz]

Legend, try doing some Early Game doomstacks/stacks ratings. By the time you get a late late game doomstack of tier 5 super monsters, or draged a legendary lord all over the map getting traits and the sword of Khaine, the campaigns almost over anyway. Early game is where it's dynamic.

[@adammclaughlin845]

Agreed. By the time armies are made up of identical tier 5 units, the game just doesn't resemble Warhammer amy more - I'd like to see smaller scale stuff, lower tier units made good, as these are the ones that would really bulk armies out.

[@senshibat8920]

Peter Dawi and Legend sing "If i had a hammer" Rating schemes gouda on them mate.

[@Mcninjaguy]

The new rating system is great. I know exactly how good an army is based on how much cheese there is. It allows me to budget my groceries to see how much cheese I need to buy and sometimes I need some quality cheese and quantity.

[@pepi560]

really appreciate the "practicality" rating

[@svenbrede6151]

The shotgun is probably in there to allow the engineer to stick with the rest of the army. Being too far apart might be dangerous. Furthermore legend, why are you not using the wardsave rune or the +40% physical resistance from the engineer? That's max physical resistance for like 20+ seconds

[@russell6075]

Because he never uses the army properly when doing rating

[@svenbrede6151]

@@russell6075 Yeaaah, true. i don't disagree with the rating. He also didn't even look at the runes. This would probably have performed a decent chunk better if he'd factored in the rune auras. Oh well

[@Barbaari111]

@@svenbrede6151 He looked at it around 7:20 no?

[@Eutteugeottasi]

...for one unit. He did mention he doesn't like the Rune of Negation since they changed it to only target one unit in WH3.

[@forthemwhatcare4349]

Yeah, I was screaming at the screen to "use the damn ward save!" And it is an area effect, not single unit

[@magnussthered]

"Therefore this army is trash" lol got me.

[@nomnomnooma]

I like rate your doomstacks I like seeing the heights of what a game can do

[@RockyX456]

Better than it was in Warhammer 2 for sure.

[@telenelatelin8632]

My favorite infantry stack I’ve built was a chosen of tzeetch with vilitch the cursling, because of the barrier pretty much all battles I ended with 0 casualties

[@zackdines]

Maybe a number rating for each category similar to you legendary Lord ranking system from WH2?

[@fingers752000]

I cant remember which one but either the Thanes or Runemasters give a bonus to Hammerers too in their skillpoints. I usually use them mixed in with Ironbreakers, as they also get a boost in the skills. Makes it a lot stronger IMO

[@Shishakind86]

If you compare this doomstack to what a "regular" endgame dwarf army looks like, it's actually really not that good even though I love it thematically (I collect dwarfs in tabletop so I'm really a sucker for dwarfs and I'd want it to work). Frontline of Ironbreakers and some artillery and missiles with some heroes and maybe slayers on the flanks will do better on average against any type of army I guess. A hammerer doomstack will work against Chaos, Vampires and maybe Lizardmen but against Wood Elves, Skaven with weapon teams or any other missile heavy enemy, they will get wrecked pretty badly. A "standard" dwarfen army can tackle any of those and if such a normal army composition does better, this unfortunately really isn't a doomstack in my opinion. Maybe this would be another good category of rating? How specific (bad) or universal (good) a doomstack is?

[@cynicalpsycho5574]

I'm gonna hazard a guess it's designed to blob so the master rune of grugni is giving all 20% missile resistance and one of the heroes might have gate keepers for more missle and spell resistance on top of rune of hearth and home giving all perfect vig meanwhile the master rune of disguise flame cannon is wiping swathes out from safety.... On top of a Master rune of spite and the rune explosions it should kill everything soon after contact. Also it may be just a doomtack not a hammerer only doomstack... as in use the whole army....

[@InvinciblKillerQueen]

With then engineer and the rune, I think the FC was part of the army proper, but I could def be wrong

[@lordmaur180]

They hammered the point meele infantry doomstacks are now viable

[@saltyking2350]

I'm pretty sure that feature of the runesmith unit card is the same for every other spellcaster

[@LordDarkhelm]

I'm curious, how and when do you decide to use units in the doomstack test that aren't "part of the doomstack". I remember watching your recent manticore doomstack test and you didn't use anything other than the manticores themselves (minus one or two non-test heals). In this one you used the heroes and runes relatively actively. Etc..

[@birdman2514]

I be annoyed when he just takes out part of the army when the whole point is for everything to work together towards the doomstack

[@biowiener7825]

it depends, monster stacks usually use stuff like healing but he doesnt let the heroes use offensive magic because he wants to see how much damage the monsters themselves can do and not to see that magic is indeed very good and you dont need a stack to use it.

[@juanlobo3202]

I dig the new rating system personally. In light of the new system, would you consider revisiting Exalted Hero doomstacks? Specifically, I think the two you've already reviewed were both TERRIBLE on the new system because... 19 exalted heroes isn't practical. I have an Archaon campaign where my two strongest armies BY FAR are 1x daemon lord, 6x exalted nurgle heroes, and 2 undivided caster heroes. And they are JUST as unstoppable as the 19x nurgle heroes, but is a doomstack you can feasibly have rolling by like... turn 20. But that that campaign is already THOROUGHLY beaten, so I'd have to spend an hour or two trying to find a good fight for the stack for you to showcase with. Gimme a thumbs up if you're interested, otherwise I won't waste your time with the submission. Thanks for what you do Legend!

[@lucaslehnerzapater3075]

Would be better in Ironbrow's expedition.

[@sinuosalice-1434]

For sure.

[@shiizzux5438]

5/10 doomstack Practicality : medium (2.5/5) Strengh : medium (2.5/5) Ease of use : medium (2.5/5) Maybe a mark for the effort put into the doomstack ? (siege attacker, usefull heroes, damaged units etc..)

[@tym6217]

Any army lead by a legendary lord has siege attacker by default. The flame cannon was totally unnecessary and a complete waste.

[@shiizzux5438]

@@tym6217 Hm I know, I don't know what it has to do with my comment, and artillery destroys walls and towers which can be usefull =)

[@tym6217]

@@shiizzux5438 it was on refference to you listing siege attacker as one of your considerations for the effort for the army

[@notachannel117]

@@tym6217 thats how legend thought of it its actually really nice against factions with medium range missiles but no artillery to make them have to walk towards you

[@freemarketcollectibles678]

The flame cannon not being used...its like the main damage dealer....it has snipe....legend....come..on..bro...

[@hanspeter8982]

He should have parked the army on the side to let the reinforcment join all together. It is supposed to be a DOOMSTACK.

[@notachannel117]

wouldnt make any difference against melee army with melee army because theyre just limited to how many models can engage at the same time he didnt double or tripleteam middle anyways because he played super wide early on and then let his flanks that were obviously get overhelmed take lopsided damage where entire middle with heroes afkd if anything itd have performed better if he didnt stand in the middle of field getting charged from all angles into flanks

[@te2dj]

I think the unit cards for spell casters show which spells are available for all caster types unless I am mistaken?

[@wernerheisenberg5128]

They do

[@Spewaks]

Could add an extra category to the rating system; an economy rating thats based on if it's cheaper or more expensive to recruit and/or maintain

[@Skagwatcher]

I think you undervalue rune of oath and steel. Each point of armor approaching 200 has more and more value the same way each point of resistance does approaching 90 and the AP damage of non-great weapon units isn't strong enough to undo resisting the entire rest of their attack.

[@TeaserTravlein]

Armor piercing.

[@googleandsusansucks]

@@TeaserTravlein Read what he wrote again.

[@Skagwatcher]

@@TeaserTravlein Yeah and non-great weapon unit doing, at most, 14 AP damage per landed swing into a model with 60 MD and 100 hp is still a massive difference in effective HP than if they were letting even 1 non AP damage through.

[@SofaMuncher]

@@TeaserTravlein a lot of armour piecing units only have at most 50% of their dmg AP

[@Mr.Beauregarde]

I just want to say, I endorse the words score, as long as you append a totally arbitrary and indecipherable score after it. I will accept rat speak, memes, and indecipherable pictographs

[@EndokrinerDisruptor]

I need dont see the need of the Thanes, can someone explain it to me? I dont play dwarves very often.

[@gravviq5592]

-33% vigour loss reduction for hammerers? not sure if it stacks, but its probably that

[@sinuosalice-1434]

Mainly for that ability (not sure if their vigor bonus stacks but that plus rune Smiths AoE vigor bonus and they stay at max allways, plus guardian) and to have some good fighters against small single entity

[@EndokrinerDisruptor]

ah, thanks

[@maciejpaszczynski6539]

Rune of speed + Rune of breaking on hammerers absolutely shreds enemy generals. Just FYI (but i was a little disapointed that legend didnt use this combo :p )

[@sharpydoo2]

Will there be any first 10 turn guides for the new factions in WH3? I just started a Cathay campaign for the first time and I had a bit of a rough start with the Yin/Yang mechanic.

[@wolfgangrecordings]

So disappointed this video wasn't titled "Stop! Hammer time"

[@zac8286]

For carrot ankles!

[@Murasame13]

The new rating system is great. :)

[@LightningBoltah]

This army didn't perform spectacularly against a low experience garrison and has a glaring mobility issue. Its cool to have a Hammerer themed army but I think the creator should've considered the variety of enemies they would be fighting as Thorgrim.

[@sinuosalice-1434]

Hi, i agree 100%. In the campaigns this army performed ok, not great not terrible. I mostly made it for the memes/for a thematic army. To make it better i would change some aspects and unit (even though i think dwarfs only have 1 real doomstack and it is a thane doomstack). In general i spent 30 turn trying to find some real enemy forces but we all know how the ai is in wh3.

[@finn-3976]

@@sinuosalice-1434 Is it as bad as it looks like if you go fight the Druchi?

[@sinuosalice-1434]

@@finn-3976 did not fight dark elf but i did attack woodelf (an army plus a garrison) , i mainly withdraw most hammers and won with the heros plus flame cannon.

[@maeljake]

@LegendofTotalwar Keep in mind all LL have siege attacker now so you don't need an artillery piece anymore.

[@lotfihachani1016]

I ike this kind of video, not too long , a little bit analytic . I think another parameter would be the impact of the dommstack on the campain. if it cripple your campaign because its too expansive is it really a good doomstack ? but then again you can said its in the "practicable category "

[@riley_028]

I think that's part of what the practical category means. How easy it is to make, and how much it costs

[@ΘανάσηςΑθανασόπουλος-σ4θ]

I would say the new rating system is better, though you can still give a number rating on each of the three factors then sum them. Like you did with the LL ratings.

[@WhiteBuffaloWakanGli]

I like the new rating system.

[@Gnipahell1r]

Legend, you might be as good as you are, but know: you can‘t touch this

[@noone5134]

Isn't the siege ability from LL enough?

[@JD-dt1qk]

Hey Legend, what about doing a rating system similar to how you rated Legendary Lords in WH2? Where there were the three categories, and you assigned a number based on how they rated in those three categories. Just a thought.

[@joaodagostini9588]

I like the new rating system specially the pratical part

[@thingsfromriki]

I would like number ratings in each of the three grading criteria!

[@Jakkomies]

It's not the size of the hammerer but how you use it

[@ГеоргийПодсветов]

I do not think that cannon here for siege attack, Thorgrim have this anyway, no?

[@senshibat8920]

The Press Ballon is in the hanger.. go check out the new Dawi Super Weapon.. "The Thunder Barge Mod?" MC Legend is Fair on how you use a good cheese testing.

[@TeteBruleeFR]

I would love for you to add a 4rth grade to explore with the doomstack : Fun to play with ! I can see some doomstack being really fun to play with (like the rattlings maybe?), while some stronger ones not at all (an all single entity army charging repeatedly into the enemy ranks as immortal beings?) I'll also would love for you to keep grading them out of 10, even if it's only out of your personal feelings without empiric data to back it up.

[@xtrasquish]

That is entirely subjective, because I'd much prefer the single entities.

[@tjbonzai87]

Can see why you have new rating system. Think rating all the categories out of 10 would have been better though to give an overall score, like your lord comparison videos

[@dragour8723]

Would the flame cannon have been there for sieges? The legendary lord already has siege attacker

[@AndroidPoetry]

We need numbers associated with the new ranking system!

[@gremlin7900]

awe dang i wanted to see his other armies to compare how he got that far in 120 turns 😂 guess ill try archer stacks

[@sinuosalice-1434]

Hi, i played the campains till turn 90 and than just skipped 30 turn trying to find some strong armies to test against, imo dwarf can expand pretty rapidly with: just swapping master runes of spite where you need and utilize the new rune passive from the rune smith that gives vigor reduction (never gets tired) plus some miners to blob and you can take on 90% of the armies up to turn 60 or so (ai builds just infantry in wh3 early game), very cheesy but i like it hehehe

[@swankdaisy4062]

I think you should go back to the number system. Just be strict and consistent with your rating. Food for thought: What you can do is double layer the rating system for 10/10s. If it hits a 10/10 rating then it goes through a other 0-10 process of rating, but this time only being rated against other 10/10 stacks.

[@gregoryshinn9805]

Thanks for the video

[@eirikarnesen9691]

let each category give 3,3333 points max, so you can still give a 1/10 score, with the new ranking system

[@horrocko]

You could give practicality 2 points and then 4 points for the other two categories, so you still get the overall strongest ones closer to the top.

[@eirikarnesen9691]

@@horrocko im a consecutive 3s man for life, i will die on that hill! but for real though, good idea, he should probably play aroud a bit with the numbers, get the weigthing down

[@BillySnowball]

The new rating system is fine... kind of. You still need to give a number value for each of three score and the have an average value. This will give 9.5 or whatever and mean its easier to differentiate between the different doom stacks. Which basically the point of the new system... as far I can see

[@S3018146]

Feel like those giants were a problem.

[@SomeIdiotLUL]

I tried a iron breaker doom stack felt good for siege attacks

[@Olav_Hansen]

Sisters of avalorn would just burn through these units. No shield, no missile resist. And even with this amount of physical resist, the damage output of shades and darkshards will still quickly burn through the hammerers.

[@mastablasta69]

3.6/5 Not great not terrible

[@nomnomnooma]

Hammerers go brrrrr

[@Grombrindal]

Hammerers? Taking up room where you could have fit another unit of quarrelers. 🏹

[@Grombrindal]

Come at me bro

[@canadianeh4792]

I am disappointed you didn't photoshop orange parachute pants on the hammerer.

[@123tobealive]

Trying to put the rating into numbers… Practicability: 7/10 Strength: 7/10 Usability: 7/10 ________________ 21/30

[@majormoolah5056]

Warhammer 3 is so easy that Legend is not getting Disaster saves anymore :D

[@Odea201058]

How many lords is too many lords? I hardly use Lords but that's only because I haven't really gauged their use in place of a full unit. Is it the passive buffs to units (do lords give those?)? The Runes/Spells?

[@ImOnlyJoeKing]

Think you still need some kind of numerical score to make it easier to differentiate / rank them

[@sepi6543]

but why the cannon for siege attacker doesnt the legendary get it too?

[@chourtout]

wouldnt grombrindal be a better choice with his army move speed bonus ? my dwarves are as fast ogres now

[@SofaMuncher]

Its gotta be Thorgrim because he gives lots of buffs to hammerers

[@phantom6014]

I feel like wood elves are an excellent faction to vs against to test doomstacks

[@tym6217]

How old is this save file? All Legendary Lords have siege attacker by default now. If that is the only reason the flame cannon was in the army then it was just a total waste of a unit slot.

[@sinuosalice-1434]

The army qas made before 2.1 and even after i kept the flame cannon with stalk and snipe just because. An organ gun or great cannon would have been better to kinda counter ranged units, but i made this army just for fun

[@Kaelde]

I think having numbers in your rating system would be better. Up to 5 points in terms of how pratical it is, strength and so on. It would make the whole system much more comparable, than getting end result in words.

[@fittpappa687]

Lmao the CC has completely given up at this point. Legend is called only Here

[@Witch_King]

How does those stunties wield such big hammers?

[@baudsp]

they got grudges to avenge, they don't have time to deal with silly topics like physic!