It's hard to read Amazing Spider-Man nowadays

[@OwenLikesComics]

The mental image of Quesada furiously arguing with Sal over email in the mid 2000s is absolutely wild

[@Henderson10666]

And I can just see how dismissive he is to someone like 2007 Sal considering his treatment of giant of the industry Peter David in 2002

[@LittleTunechi]

Kevin Feige is the current CCO of marvel comics…

[@Henderson10666]

@@LittleTunechi ok, what does that have to do with this convo?

[@LittleTunechi]

@@Henderson10666 pointing the finger at the wrong person... Spidey has gotten considerably worse since 2019 when Feige took over

[@Henderson10666]

@@LittleTunechi ok but we're talking about Joe Quesada and One More Day in 2007, more than a full decade before Feige took the reins.

[@Red-Rebel]

"We want our readers to see themselves in Spider-Man. Which is why it is absolutely imperative that he is always broke, miserable, and unable to get married."

[@mttylerdurden9]

So he's a millennial.

[@LowellLucasJr.]

It's unfortunate he's got to get cucked by a guy named Paul

[@Hogman926]

​@@mttylerdurden9 Sorry about your life, friend.

[@dram3711]

They do kinda have a point.

[@davidmount2483]

So he wants everyone to be miserable broke unmarried and unhappy lol I'm so confused and that's such a mind numping stupid way to think about that question

[@WillNolte]

Joey Q: People don't want a married Superman. Superman and Lois TV show is a married Superman with twin teenage sons. It is one of the most popular pieces of Superman media just like the current Ultimate Spider-Man book. Joey Q just loves to be wrong.

[@coachtali5151]

There it is...

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

To quote Sal, it's like planting a flower and getting mad it grows.

[@ethanm4160]

We NEED more of whatever this is. Just chatting about characters or behind the scenes, not just a particular book/arc.

[@gamergabe18]

Fun fact about Mickey and Minnie. In an interview in 1933, Walt Disney said that he always thought that Mickey and Minnie are married in their private lives.

[@shadow_kin2047]

Lord, this comment is such a blessing❤

[@epobirs]

Disney never seemed able to deal with this. They wanted Mickey and Donald to have kids to interact with but not their own. I had a book as a small child, sometime around 1970, in which Mickey had a set of three nephews, much like Donald's Huey, Dewey, and Louie. I guess they didn't catch on because I've never seen them anywhere else. There were three, so they couldn't be the twin nephews, Morty and Ferdie Fieldmouse, Mickey had in the 1930s. I suspect this was a period when Disney wasn't paying much attention to what licensees were doing.

[@walterszewczyk9024]

@@epobirs They,re called Mortie & Ferdie, his nephews. 😂 Lol.

[@epobirs]

@@walterszewczyk9024 Did you read what I wrote? These were three nephews, not two and not in the same style as Mortie and Ferdie were depicted. It was like the artist thought he was going to be doing a Donald Duck story and told it was going to be Mickey after he'd done the layouts.

[@gamergabe18]

@@epobirs Disney never really cares about the international comics. See: Topolino & Paperinik.

[@koushikraja331]

The ultimate irony is, there is a character in DC who started out as a teenage superhero who had his uncle as an inspiration, grew up, matured as a person, had his ups and downs, got rich and got bankrupted, fell in love, got it tested and ALMOST gave in to a deal with the devil and yet did not lose, and he became a better hero who joined the big leagues. He's called Wally West. Sure he isn't as insanely popular as spider man in terms of merchandise or sales but hell, he is a well known name and all those abovementioned stories which Peter has gone through since the 2000s-having a public identity and losing things because of it and getting it erased and getting rich and all that crap-happened to wally West almost before the 2010s!!!!

[@lexofpower2822]

Yea. To me The Flash is a more put together Spider-Man and I think of more people knew about him, they’d be more interested.

[@JLD22591]

Sadly DC has spent plenty of time bashing up Wally as well.

[@jadenbryant9283]

And even when Wally did get his "one more day" with heroes in crisis that got undone.

[@dr.balance3377]

gotta love Wally West. that Neron story is a perfect example of how OMD should've gone

[@cjstanky]

I'd argue the DC's biggest fuck up towards a former teen hero OMD style wasn't HIC or most of Wally's stories but Lian's death for Roy. And even that DC eventually realized was a really fucked up thing and a bad idea because they eventually brought her back and had a nice heartwarming reunion with her and her dad Roy.

[@daltonweakly]

This is how you have an intelligent conversation about the current state of comics. So rare to see people with coherent opinions and not just putting the blame on certain groups of people. Keep up the great work

[@skott3824]

I agree with Sal 100%. One More Day was the last time I read Spider-Man, I can't get invested in Peter if he's not allowed to change and grow.

[@base21]

16 years of Spidey comics you missed out on. Obviously there are some that you'd like

[@onifrancis1566]

​@@base21 As someone who went back and read some post OMD during the pandemic, he didn't miss much

[@Ili-v4z]

​@@onifrancis1566there are Spider-Man comic books besides Amazing Spider-Man. From recent ones DeMatteis' Shadow of the goblin is fantastic. Deadly Neighborhood Spider-man, Spine-tingling Spider-Man, are both great and Juan Ferreyra's art is so good I don't have words.

[@webheadcamstudios1344]

​@@Ili-v4z I would also recommend Hickman's Ultimate Spider-Man.

[@onifrancis1566]

@@Ili-v4z I was talking specifically the Amazing series. Of course there's other books. USM and Spectacular Spider-Men is what I'm currently reading

[@TimPoultney]

"Mickey shouldn't be married to Minnie!" "They're not married." Tell that to the entire population of Italy.

[@AlessandroAltosoleChannel]

lucky them, they don't know...

[@akiraeatsguitarpicks491]

Well to be fair we also had Mickey marry a witch for a What If. Which is insane that we have Mickey What If’s

[@ghosfox1292]

Or Kingdom Hearts fans.

[@thefalsekingslayer3717]

Which is funny. Because they are married. Walt Disney confirms that they are a married couple, but that they are actors, and sometimes play a couple on screen, and sometimes do not

[@TechnicolorGhosts]

I really hope you do more of these kinds of videos. These discussions on a specific topic are always really interesting. It's like an expanded version of the tangents videos you used to do.

[@rainpunk]

Couldn't agree more, the tangents are like half of the appeal of the main show for me.

[@Hogman926]

​@@rainpunkI'm on a mission to convince Sal to put the unedited Back Issues up on the Patreon.

[@rainpunk]

@@TechnicolorGhosts they should get an editor, imagine how much they could pump out

[@ThatKevinBravo]

The reason I dropped ASM was that I wasn’t reading about the life of Peter and his supporting characters anymore, I was reading the editorial mandates and behind the scenes of the Marvell bullpen

[@SanDanGlockta]

@@ThatKevinBravo that's kind of been the way since one more day though

[@bgvo4373]

The recent story where Paul’s backstory comes up, and the tombstone threat is dealt with in one issue?

[@Young_Special]

Why can't people just listen for once... we can MAKE them do better when it comes to Spider-Man when we don't buy their crap.

[@Hulkzilla0]

The moment Sal got to the Sony part of it all, it was like an anvil was dropped, with the weight of realization and the pain of awareness. Man it sucks that the higher ups at Marvel have this mentality.

[@TheLastSkyfarer]

Yeah, when they got to that part, I felt my brain short circuit for a moment

[@TheBronySpidermanFan]

Same!!!!

[@227060]

@@Hulkzilla0 They don't . Marvel have been doing this kind of stuff with Spider-Man since before they sold the rights to Sony. It honestly is just them fundamentally misunderstanding their mascot character.

[@famousthaneus9810]

Sony has had the rights to Spidey/Spidey related characters since 1999. Look up the timeline of major Marvel events in the comics, and a good amount of them either are about Pete, involve Pete in some sort of “I’m in the forefront even if briefly” manner, or are Spider-adjacent. It’s an idea that honestly doesn’t check out once you actually look into it

[@TheLanimation]

I kinda have to agree with the most recent posters here. Because when were there any large Spidey events that really shook up the Marvel universe on the level of, say, Civil War? The only one that comes to mind was the first Spider-Verse in 2014, which, if I'm right, was before Marvel Studios began. But the thing with Spider-Verse is it didn't affect the entire Marvel universe, just the Spider-Man uni. The Spider group wasn't recruiting Avengers or X-Men to help against Inheritors, it was pretty contained. I rather liked it, but I agree, it wasn't a huge Marvel event. On the other side, I do find it interesting the comic side hasn't done anything nearly as big as that since then. So I can see reason for both sides of the argument, but am leaning towards it not being true.

[@ItsOver9000Productions]

That revelation blew my mind. THAT'S WHY MILES IS IN ALL THE EVENTS, i thought literally yesterday that it was so weird that Miles is always the Spidey on the team reading the Avengers vs Aliens and Avengers vs Ultraman and Bloodhunt. I audibly gasped. You've perfectly broken down the biggest issues with Spider-Man behind the scenes

[@HurricaneD]

Peter is in Ultraman x Avengers.

[@ItsOver9000Productions]

@@HurricaneD and yet Miles is on the cover and the main character in the first issue. At the end when Peter shows up Miles literally says "Say hello to THE AVENGERS and the other Spider-Man! I didn't realize he was a member." And Peter says he's not but he wanted to help out Miles. That's a weird stipulation to put in the book considering he has been an Avenger. Maybe not currently but still

[@famousthaneus9810]

Y’all realize that Sony still has the rights to Miles too right? It’s not the “THAT’S WHY!” point y’all think it is, it’s literally just Miles is today what Pete was at his start: A new, young company mascot that both younger readers & adults can relate to in some level.

[@supermagnumable]

@@famousthaneus9810 😂 all of these points they’re using sound like cope to discredit Miles’ legitimate success.

[@LittleTunechi]

@@famousthaneus9810 can I get an invite to the dream world you’re living in? How come Marvel can put effort into pushing Miles and making him a better character but that’s not possible for Peter? Stop pretending like there isn’t an obvious agenda

[@wdcain1]

The idea that comic readers don't want the heroes married is as dumb as network executives saying children only want cartoons about kids.

[@jasoninthehood9726]

I hate marriages in comic books as much as I hate clones unless it’s Reed and Sue. I’m 41 though so maybe newer readers like it. I barely bother worth new books unless they’re really exceptional. I’ll stick to my Marvel Masterworks for now.

[@joeclarke7982]

​@@jasoninthehood9726 .most ppl like to see their favorite characters grow up over time

[@coachtali5151]

Or that only books about white men main characters are good😂😂😂

[@flywheelshyster]

These longform tangents are effing excellent

[@AlessandroAltosoleChannel]

It's nostalgia given power. The people in charge of marvel were kids when Spider-Man wasn't married, and when they got the chance to run the show they decided they owned the character (technically they do by working for the company, but you get what i mean) and that the marriage was wrong because It wasn't there when they were little. Easy as that, it's a childish refusal to admit time moved on. But also there's the problem of mary jane"s popularity. If she is wrong for peter and no one likes her, why do they keep printing stories with her? Why variant covers? Cause she is a popular marvel character. She makes money. So you have a generation of comic executives who hate a character but can't really get rid of her because she makes them money. And there you have why the relationship is written this way, so they can have the popular character but only for an amount of time that allows variants and bait issues to happen

[@creed8712]

I think what’s wild is that now, being an adult and not reading spider man I would not bat an eye at him marrying Mary Jane because between the 90s show, the rami movies, spectacular spider man and even up to the Spiderverse movies. Also that blood hunt thing makes zero sense because I can tell you for a fact Sony has not been making more money off Spider-Man than marvel has. Full stop. They get something nice from the games and the Spiderverse film but merchandise is where it’s at and that all goes to marvel. Like you can’t even argue it’s the same as the X-men situation

[@jadenbryant9283]

Yeah like say what you will about Geoff johns about his nostalgia but atleast he's willing to deal with those changes for the most part The editors can't.

[@GothamCityCritics]

I too...am a "spider-man is a fantastic four member" haha

[@JLD22591]

As a Spidey and FF fan. This is true, and was long before New Avengers. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Haha

[@Dingo69420]

There are hundreds of us!

[@MkR2398]

Same here

[@unseenhand6579]

Same

[@comixproviderftw_02]

He’s an honorary member of the Fantastic Four

[@seanmoore5747]

Another issue - and what drives me absolutely up the wall - is that they did all this stuff to break him and MJ up so Pete can be young and hip and go back to having a rotating cast of ladies... But MJ is (as you point out) an iconic part of the Spidey mythos. She is burnt into the IP to everyone outside of comics. So Pete doesn't move on, he doesn't have a life.... He is a creepy little boy who can't get over his first crush and stalks her, moons over her, and is miserable because she isn't his. Pete is reduced to a depressing loser, and we are forced to spend time watching the misadventures of MJ so we can cut to him being there sighing and being a total creep. If they actually let her go away, give her her own book and move her to LA or something - and let Pete be a normal likable person again - that'd be grand. But instead we have this upsetting semi-fetishized thing where Pete must be sad at all times and the universe flaunts MJ like a carrot on a stick he isn't allowed to have. The whole thing feels gross and insulting as a fan who grew up reading Spider-man books. He was my favorite superhero growing up, and I can't say that anymore because it feels wrong when I genuinely hate most of his modern stories and development. I wonder if your note about the Sony thing has anything to do with the above... (I hadn't even thought about that until you pointed it out in the vid!) I loved this vid, and it was nice to hear that I am not just a bitter old dork being a curmudgeon and that modern Spidey bugs other folks I respect the opinions of. I hope you do more discussion vids like this. (And I am with you 100%, Spidey is FF.)

[@maskmaker6374]

Honest thats my issue with the Batman/Catwoman issue and even Doctor Strange and Clea. Its like they forgot that most of the time the ex doesnt stay around. Hell in a recent comic they had Doc Ock's girlfriend while he was Peter proclaim that he was still her fallback guy. Why is that character still around?

[@devanbarrios9216]

Technically speaking, Betty Brant was Peter's first crush

[@Young_Special]

Besides us speaking... will there ever be a change? An end to this madness? If not, then why do people keep buying these new modern books when they know damn well that they're bad.

[@Sub_Human84]

@devanbarrios9216 if I remember correctly, Liz Allan was his first crush and Betty was his first girlfriend.

[@supersonicstyleatsonicspeed]

@@maskmaker6374 Thoughts on Doctor Strange 2023 issue 18? I think you should read what Clea said to Stephen in that issue.

[@RyanFreshhh]

The idea of Quesada getting mad about comic characters is hilarious in my brain

[@jasoninthehood9726]

well when it effects the product you’re in charge of to selling to an audience, you probably should care. You do know Marvel is a business, right?

[@MikeRitiques]

Everyone loves Superman and Lois being married and having a Son. They are the ultimate couple in comics

[@mttylerdurden9]

Let's not forget the other heroes who weren't allowed to get married and (or) have a family. The hulk and Betty Ross were going to have a baby during the Peter David run, until editorial forced her to have a miscarriage. David was furious, refused to write that issue were she lost her baby, and almost quit the book because of it. Or how about the New 52 batwoman run, were Kate Kane was going to marry her girlfriend Maggie Sawyer (I think that was her name) but then the higher ups veoted that storyline as well, and the writer and artist left the book afterwards.

[@PencilFan-hj3lo]

I literally had the whole "they're x-mening Spider-Man" realization yesterday lol

[@blacktrigg]

Sal saying this blew my mind and he isn’t wrong I’m just mad I didn’t see it before watching this video

[@srijitgupta831]

As a Spider-Man fan, I can't express how happy this video made me feel. This video is not just informative but speaks a great deal of what other fans like myself have been frustrated over with the comic book industry. Being a Peter Parker fan has been tough cause of the constant abuse Marvel keeps putting him through and hearing y'all go into detail regarding why this situation has been taking place really made so much sense. I love the tangent episodes in general, but this one certainly holds a special place in my heart. Thanks a lot for sharing this discussion with us!

[@VZAAGE]

I was just thinking this over the other day. I used to love Spider-Man. One of the things that was great was how he didn't have his ducks in a row. However, now, after being several years older and serving as a mentor to others... he should really have it together by now. The same old tales don't work anymore, and anybody looking for those kinds of stories should just go back and read them.

[@loganthomas2421]

It’s truly baffling how Quesada and other creators view beloved characters. They see them more as a mascot and stay in the status quo rather than have interesting character progression and stories. It’s why stories like OMD and the current ASM run are so controversial and don’t click. But you occasionally have stories like Life story, Tomasi’s Superman, and JMS’ ASM run that honors the characters, shows clear progression, and gives you new characters and stories that can stand the test of time. Thank you Sal for sharing your story and showcasing the difference between the fans and editors

[@milosradmilac8911]

I hate the state he's in man. He's stuck. So any progress that is made will be regressed and returned to the status quo. He can't move forward with Mary Jane, he can't move on from Mary Jane, Felicia can develop properly either. So he gets a cool new job, looses it, goes back to Bugle, rotates. He's in his 30s, or around 30 at this point, he knows successful people, has worked with them directly: Tony, Reed, Hank McCoy, Hank Pym, and many many more respect and value his opinion, he owned a company (that he tanked, but considering CEO performance in general, that should've landed him a promotion). And instead he's perpetually living with his aunt, or crashing on someone's couch, or barely inkling a living. And then there's Miles. Recently a shot came up that recapped a story in which Miles was kidnapped and Tony Stark got angry and saved him. Peter wasn't. involved. His only contact with Miles was on Miles' birthday when he popped into his apartment in the middle of M's birthday party to give hiim a greeting card, and cover for Peter as he had to 'do something'. So instead of building this big bro/younger bro dynamic between the two, we get... barely anything and have other heroes mentor Miles on how to be Spider-man. Like... the set. up is all there. There are talented people over at Marvel. This is... wow.

[@GamerSlyRatchet1]

The Spectacular Spider-Men is finally building a Peter/Miles dynamic, at least. It’s a fun book.

[@LocallyConstantDuck]

What is insane is the we aren’t even getting Bachelor Peter. He “dated” Black Cat and got one date with them together (with a guest author!) and they break up for no justifiable reason. At least if we going to dumpster the marriage, give us a relationship with some actual heat.

[@thew0rdsmyth]

They can't because of their silly insistence that he be single. Any other relationship will get to the same point of depth and seriousness and they'll want to break them up as well.

[@227060]

@@LocallyConstantDuck No relationship can have heat because everyone going into it knows it will be doomed to fail.

[@BearthatBaresFoodinBelly]

It's like they think comic readers don't get laid and want Peter to not get laid

[@NovastarDoughnut]

I think the difference is that Spiderman is a soap opera and Superman is a cartoon pulp hero. Superman doesn't often need to grow or change because he, as a character, is formed on the basis of changing the world. Superman doesn't need to change because a lot of his best stories are Superman, taking the cynical nonbeliever and challenging their worldview, inevitably leading to a better change in the world. Spiderman is a soap opera about a kid, his life, his growth, and how it all affects him. The problem is if you stagnate growth so long, it just becomes kinda sad. You undo the marriage, and it feels like youre undoing development and growth.

[@jasoninthehood9726]

Do split ups and divorce not happen among married people in Marvel?

[@NovastarDoughnut]

@jasoninthehood9726 I mean... sometimes... but like a lot of the marriages are kept, marrige issues are a big deal for Marvel comics going back as far as the wedding of Sue and Reed. Sure Peter got unmarried, ororo and tchalla broke up, cyclops had a whole thing with madeline prior, wasp righly left hank pym and theres the whole ordeal between wands and vision, but yknow Reed and Sue, Luke and Jessica, Ben and Alicia, northstar and kyle, Jean and Scott, hulking and Wiccan, rogue and gambit, blackbolt and medusa and many others are all still happily married

[@arslanbaig1943]

I don't think it's as clear cut as you think here, Superman doesn't need to change is an argument that I have seen a lot of other people make, but I don't necessarily agree with. Because it suggests that superman is a stagnant character, who has no challenges to overcome or no lessons to be learn. Which is nonsense as there are many stories that suggest otherwise. Yes, stories are about superman helping and changing the world for better, at what costs and conditions? His private life gets affected, his peace time gets affected. There is always a situation to attend, whether he likes it or not. Superman and Spiderman are both heroes who faces different moral dilemmas respective to their universes, difference between them is, Supes is larger than life and Spidey is a almost a street level hero. One is born out of inspiration and choice and other born out of consequence and regret.

[@NovastarDoughnut]

@arslanbaig1943 hmmm... yknow I hadn't considered that perspective. I think this is the problem of making vast broad sweeping statements about such versatile long-lived comic characters because that character will inevitably be and do everything

[@arslanbaig1943]

@@NovastarDoughnut Hmmm.... that's an interesting point you made here, for long lasting comicbook characters like Spiderman, Superman, Batman & Fantastic four etc; What else you can do with these famous characters which hasn't done before? If that's what you mean by character will inevitably be and do everything. If you thought that superman is a tough character to write for, Batman has also become somewhat a tough character as well. As said tom king said in an interview, What can do to batman which hasn't done before. But, I personally think the answer lies in by making their motivations timeless and have creative ideas for them.

[@Diana-gw6cu]

OH???????? THIS IS AMAZING THIS IS THE NEW COMICPOP META

[@phayroent9742]

Superman being married makes way more sense than not. How would Superman focus on saving the world if he's thinking about Clark's next date with girl #4. Wouldn't he prioritize his harem over a world of strangers? So him having a wife makes complete sense. If he can get Lois to a place he feels is safe enough, then his ONE person is now out of harm and he can go beat some ass. Having several women trying to contact Clark in a crisis when he NEEDS to be Superman is NOT optimal.

[@jasoninthehood9726]

The only thing I don’t like is he’s married to Lois. He could do so much better. That’s what I hate about the marriage. Superman Space Age made me realize that.

[@superioridiot3846]

​@jasoninthehood9726 I mean, he could do much better, but he likes her, and she likes him. It's like how he could just be a superhero 24/7, but he likes to walk around Metropolis as Clark Kent

[@doro626]

Man that guy in the middle was making ALL THE SENSE. I collected from 1989-roughtly 2000's. I bailed before the Ben Riley clone saga. I so wanted Spiderman to be an Avenger. He finally joins and a villain killed everyone. I dont even remember the next issue but I think that was the joke on the cover that he joined and it was when the team got killed.

[@nikhilkapoor428]

Okay that Sal-Quesada email exchange story was insane to hear. I literally couldn’t imagine the current ASM situation getting any worse than it already is until now.

[@LUISPRIME]

Sal and co. dropping true bombs. Love it. The reason they hate married super heroes is that they are lousy writers and can't write for shit. That's it.

[@mttylerdurden9]

It isn't the writers fault (not always anyway) it's editorial mandate and the higher ups.

[@akiraeatsguitarpicks491]

I’m more of the idea that, as much as we don’t want to acknowledge it, comics are usually targeted to dateless 20-something’s, and that audience wouldn’t really see themselves in a married man in an healthy relationship

[@MLPRainbowFantasy]

​@@akiraeatsguitarpicks491 I can vouch for that. Life is really tough when youre invisible to the other sex. That's why I'm extremely grateful that they let Spider-Man stay relatable to us nerds.

[@superioridiot3846]

​@@MLPRainbowFantasyI'm sorry to say, he's straight up not relatable unless you're living THAT kind of a life, which I hope is not the case...

[@comixproviderftw_02]

“It’s The Simpsons of comic books.” -GodzillaMendoza, 2023

[@fowlowl7784]

I really like these mini videos.

[@JakeTylenol]

I also want to add that Peter’s problems he has now feels ridiculous because from what I’ve seen Miles doesn’t have any of the “if miles life is good, Spider-Man’s life must be bad” effect so it just makes Peter to me look like a shittier spiderman In fact Miles is on his what? 5th power upgrade in the past year

[@obedcontreras4425]

Sal spitting facts for almost 20 minutes straight

[@Odysseus24601]

The last couple of videos I’ve seen (not in order), Sal talks about his heavy email dialogs with creatives, and it just makes me love this channel more!

[@webheadcamstudios1344]

Sal hit the nail on the head with that Sony part, As much as I would love to see Spider-Man play a huge part in the MCU, Its never gonna happen because Sony has such a tight leash around the character.

[@TheJohnWhites]

Spencer was so close to putting the toys back on the shelf after 20 years, and the editors just couldn't do it. It's so strange.

[@bradleyd.9801]

At least he managed to compromise and get rid of Sins Past lmao

[@bluespaceman7937]

He was never going to be allowed to finish the deal. Everyone knew that.

[@crisgadelhart]

@@TheJohnWhites Nick Spencer was underrated in Spider-Man books, sadly. His run should be incredible, and started really well, but probably "Sony issues" got on the way. That's really sad.

[@What-ish]

Joe Quesada has a real grudge against marriage

[@maskmaker6374]

Ethan had a point about the Xmen and even the Fantastic Four at least Spiderman has a book. Heck if it was DC they would have Rick Grayson him. Cant have Aunt May looking to old.

[@JoeChillton]

This is a grim wake up call for Spidey fans. Holy crap

[@magnusprime962]

It’s really sad when the corporate and editorial hand is so obviously harming the character. Spider-Man is doing great in so many adaptations, but not in the original comics universe he was created in. The worst part is that so many people have missed that growing up and maturing is an integral part of the character. When Stan and Steve were making the book he graduated high school at a normal pace. He started college, made friends with his former bully, and began building a new life for himself. But all of that gets ignored by people convinced he has to perpetually be ‘youthful’.

[@ToonamiT0M]

As a DC fan I love Lois and Clark, Barry and Iris, Wally and Linda, Diana and Steve, Ralph and Sue. It makes these larger than life heroes that much more relatable. Not every hero needs to have a stable love life (Batman for example), but to think being in a stable relationship hurts story telling possible only shows the lack of creativity from that individual.

[@AdamRelayson]

I’ve literally had dinner with Sgt Slaughter at a Hooters. He seemed pretty good with being the Sarge.

[@arempy5836]

2:49 even if Superman is single he'd still care for Lois and he'd still be friends with Jimmy and Perry and everyone at the Planet and everybody in Smallville. Like, he's a person, he's going to have attachments and that's a conflict the character will always have to deal with.

[@creed8712]

I forgot how much I missed these long tangent videos. I know stuff like that is to the whim of the algorithm most of the time but I do hope we get more

[@positronicbeats7496]

Joe Quesada would hate adult Sal for being married which ages him and now he can't argue with him like in the old days

[@wuzziecrunch5382]

I think the best way to put it is that Spider-Man is the mc of Marvel (when discussing him being a loner or an avenger) Spider-Man’s themes are the themes of the greater marvel universe overall, so he can kinda be slotted into any team up you want him in

[@danieldejesusfigueredoorop1428]

This is the kind of conversations I followed Comicpop in the first place .

[@Shinmsl]

5 minutes in and I am already howling with laughter XD I love you guys-

[@alienkatdaddycgs5904]

At this point Sal should just write Spider-Man.

[@bluespaceman7937]

Not going to happen.

[@xxmunkiexx]

I think he's said that even if he could he would turn it down

[@caiocbcn]

Oh damn. I just realized something. Miles morales, spider gwen, Ken Reilly, Kayne Parker... They want Spider-Man, but without peter Parker, and for a long time, specifically because Peter Parker carries things like Mary Jane and uncle Ben, things about his character that makes so they can't write in whatever way they fell like it. They want the suit but with anyone they can mold it inside. It all makes so much sense now.

[@famousthaneus9810]

THIS! It’s not a movie rights issue, it’s literally just this. Thank you

[@roberthennigan1851]

Thank you for this discussion, it was intelligent, insightful and you guys have expressed our frustrations.

[@TopherHeYump]

I love the back issues setting/idea not being a full comic story and instead a discussion about topics. I look forward to more of these

[@bZman]

I am all for the comic characters getting married, having kids, getting older, etc. Superman and Lois are great. Spidey and MJ were great and they should have grown into the MC2 Spidergirl level. Batman and Catwoman should have just gotten married and had some character growth. If all you do is repeat the same storylines and will they wont they crap everyone gets bored.

[@danieldishon688]

You really hit the nail on the head and why the movies and more importantly the splitting of the IP between studios just disintegrated these characters stories and canon. There was a time these characters could change, move on, and grow. But then they became Mickey Mouse. And they got split between competing studios. Suddenly Spider-Man isn't given center respect in comics anymore. Suddenly we don't want Sony to get access to too many new stories, suddenly we'd like to just kill all the X-Men and build up Inhumans as their functional replacement. When it was just the cartoons it was fine. This wasn't a multimillion dollar franchise that shook the comic book industry, the cartoons were constantly shifting owners hands and constantly getting reboots. Sometimes their original ideas affected the comics like Blade being a daywalking vampire, or the symbiote affecting Peter's personality, but it was never major changes being done to undermine certain studios interest, or to keep these characters an unchanged safe neutral brand.

[@crimsonECH1DNA]

I have to push back slightly on the "Spider-Man is being X-Men'd" thing because prior to the creation of the MCU, what major Marvel event was Peter Parker actually a central figure in? During the start of Bendis-centric major events in the mid 2000s he liked including Peter Parker in stuff because Peter was one of his favorite characters. So he got that subplot in House of M (which ironically people would rage about if it was written today because Peter's "ideal world" was one where Gwen never died and they got married). And then there's Civil War, but that was all ultimately just setting stage for One More Day to happen. But other than that, I can't recall Peter often being used a prominent figure in the big cross over stories. The shining example is Secret Wars from the 80s. Most major Marvel crossover events are Avengers focused and Peter often wasn't on the lineup during those stories.

[@LittleTunechi]

Spider-Man was the posterboy of marvel mainly due to his character. They are completely cucking his character nowadays… pretend like he’s always been this way. Sure, but if he was always like this then why was he ever popular?

[@g_imanari9775]

I hope you continue to upload these kind of videos. I really like them

[@Jay-Voorhees]

@@g_imanari9775 I 2nd this

[@LowellLucasJr.]

Joe Quesada strikes again!!!! He took one look at Superman and Spider-mans teamup and thought " No more Marriage for either!!!"

[@richborn6700]

The last time I remember Spider-Man being a part of a major story as a pivotal character was Avengers vs X-Men in 2012 when he held off Colossus and Magik with phoenix force powerups so Hope Summers could escape. Peter can be an excellent mentor, but they're equally interested in portraying as a teenager. Its like if DC made equal amounts of content with Dick Grayson grown up as Nightwing and revert to Robin at the same time

[@liamhemstock2286]

12:24 I think it’s actually Disney’s way of keeping Spider-Man away from the big events because if they go that route and go “I want to watch Spider-Man” then they’re giving money to Sony and not Disney which also sucks as well. I just want Peter to succeed and be written with care. He should be an Avenger or at least a respected hero

[@bZman]

Spidey is a team player to me, highly respected as an avenger and FF substitute member but he is one who also does his own thing often as well.

[@mayotango1317]

No really. Everybody thinks he is a loser.

[@taterslam0573]

It’s funny now that DC Seemed to finally realize people do like the Superman and Lois marriage and are deciding to run with it while Marvel is still holding on to the “Marriage bad!” and “Peter can’t grow and have a family”. It’s legit surprising

[@StanleyBarton-kr9by]

I mean Hal Jordan was a villain for barely 5 years before DC made him the spectre in 1999, and was only pushed into that direction due to bad sales and other factors So Johns bringing him back and redeeming and retconning some of the lore seems more like getting Green lantern back to how he was predominantly was and not just ignoring a huge part of his story and he and he never shyed away from mention his time as villlain especiallly in rebirth or Day Of Judgement in which Johns makes him the spectre.

[@charlesman8722]

There’s nothing wrong with Superman being married. It gives him a center and something to fight for.

[@rainpunk]

Yo these longer tangent are awesome! When i see the couch i click, this is the difference for me between the 2 channels. But here you bridge the gap! Love this approach, its a great way to get people who only look at the main channel to migrate to the side channel! Thanks for this, you should do more!

[@elijahbowers1]

This was amazing and I'd love more of these tangent/post conversations

[@MoKassama]

I don't know if I'm in the minority or if its a risky move for youtube channel development, but i honestly think i would listen to any topic you guys put out

[@TheWrestlingNerd]

It's very funny about the St. Slaughter comparison because a wrestler recently attempted to do a similar character to St. Slaughter and he became livid that it wasn't even brought up to him.

[@startrekfanman]

Absolutely loved this conversation, I wish the Sal speaks podcast was still going

[@Mantis42]

I think the video game comparison is a little off. It makes sense that the low points of Peter and Spidey are synced because it's one self contained piece of media. Comics are perpetual so some storylines can be at different places in their arcs.

[@austinmooney98]

Y'all think this is a cut snippet from the upcoming Back Issues? Cause like, if it is, great way to advertise. But also, I just like listening to these people interact with one another.

[@comicpopreturns]

It is!

[@ianmckee4726]

My first time buying spidermna was during Superior. I think Sals ppint sbout the chsrscter being sllowed to grow is a big part of why i loke it so much. Otto went thru quite the arc, and Petrr coming back just undid all of it.

[@TheBronySpidermanFan]

D: Mind blown! Y’all hit the nail on the head. I love Spider-Man, and his current way his main comic version is treated both in universe and editorially is just sad.

[@Jake_E57]

It sounds like the "If Spider-Man is up Peter must be down and if Peter is up Spider-Man must be down" is less of a good formula for story telling and more of an editorial mandate. At least that's how comes off.

[@Christian-P.O.V]

We tend to get upset when a comic book character does something we consider to be out of character for them. But comic book characters do not have a set character because they are written by so many writers. Their character changes depending on who holds the pen. We have favorite writers of a character and because we like the way they write the character we say that is the character. But if we take all the depictions of for instance (in continuity) Spider-Man and blend them we get a schizophrenic mess. Best to weather the storms of writers who seem to be sabotaging our beloved heroes while we wait for someone else to take over

[@johnk9352]

I love this sort of stuff. After this gem and the bonus footage with Jason from the other week, I am quite keen to see more of this tangential goodness in the future.

[@oatmat]

Oh shit that's why Miles is in Alien vs Avengers instead of Peter

[@comixproviderftw_02]

Better luck next time Pete.

[@mr_lagerkvist]

Spider-Man and Batman. Two greatest heroes of the two biggest comic book publishers receive such poor treatment nowadays in their titular series that it makes my head hurt.

[@KusanajiKei]

this is one of the best semi-rant i ever seen, and i want more.

[@xxmunkiexx]

I love these discussions

[@capsjukebox]

Quesada’s attitude to fictional marriages probably tells us a lot more about Joe than it does Superman and Spider-Man

[@brookeelliott7549]

Yeah I feel bad for his wife

[@supersand242]

What's also crazy is that Peter Parker didn't really "play the field" as much as they wanted him too since OMD

[@milesfashaw9615]

Hooooooly Sh*****t, you guys blew my mind. Peter is getting x-men’d. it all makes sense now

[@pop000690]

At least the X-Men are outta of that hell hole. Peter is just destined to be in a cycle of crap at this rate

[@LittleTunechi]

Shows the character of Disney and Kevin Feige. They’d rather ruin a role model that’s important to young kids just to spite sony. It’s disgusting behavior.

[@dedbatt8869]

It’s true… people gave Slott a lot of crap, but it’s been more downhill since he left the book.

[@FinnSutoThe2nd]

What I find interesting is that every single one of the writers working on Spider-Man have proven to be incredibly talented. Joe Quesada proved to be a super talented editor. They all understand storytelling and they have even shown to understand the character but then they have such short sighted ideas on the status quo. They talk about freedom for writers while stomping on Spencer's ideas. They want the book to be for young people while hiring a 50-year-old Joe Kelly to write a run. They want new ideas but here's a fourth Spider-Verse by Slott. It does seem that there must be some sort of mandate coming from higher powers because these people must be aware what the problem is. I don't buy for one second they've not seen fans complain about OMD. I feel like every comment section and thread will inevitably have at least one person talking about how much they hate OMD. I don't think I've seen a piece of media so despised by a fanbase. There has to be something there that they're not allowed to talk about. I think the most frustrating part is not that things are the way they are. I hate the silence on the matter. The complete refusal to awknowledge the situation. It sucks to be feel so unheard. It makes me feel deflated.

[@rymd9912]

The worst part is No Way Home validated both OMD/OMIT, Spider-Verse and took home just shy of 2 billions at the box office.

[@RileyScarletSpiderGirl]

Spider-Man is my favourite character but specifically Ben Reilly so I'm really hating this current era and finding it hard to read.

[@drewchesher3232]

7:54 I think Sal just put to words why Big Time is my favorite Spiderman arc Which I would love to see on Back Issues by the way

[@Mr_ULTMT]

This was a refreshing yet heartbreaking video. Make more like this!

[@flywheelshyster]

Holy cow this was great everyone was tangenting on the couch with this on3!

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

We got so much fun from DC Rebirth with Clark and Lois being together with Johnathan. Shame that they screwed that up. DC has been doing such similar things to Marvel recently that I'm fully expecting them to create their own version of the infamous Paul.

[@izz6760]

Sal I love your channel and this is why I love the conversation you and the rest of the team have about comics keep it up man been a fan since the little house era

[@erikaatayde8919]

1:30 that's lori lemaris erasure!!!

[@anthonyleecollins9319]

Clearly species-ist! 🙂

[@reekayeee]

Lmaoooo pre comicpop emails about comics 😂

[@shadysam8879]

I think that there have been very good Spider-Man stories, arcs and runs since One More Day, but i do agree that as a whole his constant regressions of his character. I thought some stuff like Big Time under Dan Slott gave peter the progress and respect he deserves from someone whos been around as long as him. And Nick Spencer looked like he was trying to bring Peter back to his old state, but that run shit the bed at the end.

[@LucidJo]

Yes! More comicpop!! Loving these follow-up videos, hope y’all keep doing em!

[@Amuro1X]

The biggest problem with Spider-Man in general is there are different factions of people claiming that Spider-Man has to be THIS ONE SPECIFIC THING and it's usually people that literally remember 1 thing from their youth. IE the old farts editing Spider-Man and the annoying kids that watched Raimi movies in their youth.