It’s time for some hard truth - Aqvox "Audiophile" Network Switch

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Every industry has its fair share of people and companies aiming to perfect the craft... but that aim has lead to a number of shady snake oil solutions that don't actually improve anything. Today, we look at one of those.
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CHAPTERS
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0:00 Intro
1:41 What is this thing?
2:57 Their claims
6:14 Testing their claims
11:09 Teardown
15:04 Why it doesn't work
17:39 Why people are still buying it

[@LinusTechTips]

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[@BridgingDragon]

ok

[@shadewing666nz]

LLT is duplicating their ads in the comments now? 🤨

[@klaxoncow]

I mean, as a coder, there's a real easy way to conclusively prove that there is no difference. Grab the bytes themselves from the stream, and then compare them - byte by byte - to show that the digital data reaching the PC is literally **IDENTICAL**. (And, seriously, I'm absolutely sure that they are 100% identical, because they HAVE TO BE. Digital data often contains opcodes, checksums and use compression dictionaries and so forth - these things cannot differ, or the stream would just break. It wouldn't sound slightly worse or better. It would just straight up totally break and stop working. Digital data has to be identical. It really cannot be any other way, or computers just wouldn't work at all.)

[@theskeletalrebel3908]

I wonder if their is a surcharge for a comment or if it comes complimentary

[@AliNoh]

#Respect_ME_PC_Community

[@pistolstarpaulkimble2653]

Worked in high end audio for 12 years, been a record producer for 35 years. One of my favorite things in the studio, is to have a red button that lights up when you push it. Whenever people are whining about something, I'll push the red button and ask them if they like it better now. 95% of the time, the answer is yes. The red button is connected to nothing of course. Audio perception is a minefield for placebo and psychoacoustics. Given how powerful suggestion is to psychoacoustics, it's pretty easy to get away with snakeoil. All that being said, if you believe something is better, did you get your monies worth?

[@EdgyShooter]

Always wanted a switch like this at work, maybe connected to some analogue displays that jump to life when flicked

[@heikosale1027]

Audio engineers at live events more often than not have empty faders labelled "guitar monitor" and "bass monitor" and so on. Whenever one of the musicians ask them to make them louder in the monitor mix, they'll push the fader up and the musicians will give them a thumbs up and be happy.

[@bluegiger]

I studied an "audio engineering" diploma a while back and one of the first things the lecturer did in the studio was sweep the EQ knobs and ask us if we heard a difference? Some folks nodded. He then pointed out that everyone that nodded their heads were lying... because the EQ circuit was not even engaged in the channel in question. He then did engage it to show the difference. I think many of my class mates missed the important lesson. Yes, suggestion is a powerful thing.

[@collinbrown4421]

Brilliant

[@grahamstevenson1740]

Yup, my friend Jack Clegg who worked as an engineer for Decca and then Air Studios had one of those too. He called it the 'producer switch'. He also had a rotary control which wasn't wired to anything for those who wanted a knob to turn.

[@kylosalvesen]

Me, looking at the thumbnail: wait, how can a network switch be a scam? Me after Linus uses the word audiophile: ahh yes

[@digitalbarrito3555]

Exactly me when I saw the thumbnail. I've been looking at inexpensive network switches recently, so that DLINK box was immediately recognizable to me and I was like "Oh dear god no, how, why, please no" followed by immediate "Oh yeah, well if you're buying a network switch thinking it's for better audio, you're probably an idiot anyway"

[@Collin_J]

"Should I be networking over USB or something?" to "what a fucking scam" real fast

[@LunaNicoleTheFox]

Another possible way: marketing it as a network switch when it is in fact a hub.

[@WiiNV]

L🤫L Next, Medical Grade electronics! 🤭

[@crysiscontained4421]

@@WiiNV They already do that with "Military Grade".... anyone who's ever been in the military will tell you that shit in the military breaks like nothing else.

[@ruthvenmoon]

I've heard it said that audiophiles don't use gear to listen to their music, they use music to listen to their gear.

[@paradoxicalcat7173]

LOL!

[@ostar22]

Well said

[@1karanhasija]

deep

[@clintbanzet158]

What he said.

[@tbp-channel8870]

Haha.. Yep.. it fits..they need this D-Link..

[@Cre8tvMG]

In the early 1980s I was an audio engineering student. My prof drilled into us over and over again "If it sounds good it is good". That practicality has served me well. Train your ears, listen critically, then ignore all marketing hype. Go with your ears. If it sounds good, it is good.

[@Deathrape2001]

​@@nguyenphutrong2492 U R just being silly. Cables top out well under the price of cars, & a lot of people R just buying them as a conversation piece & 'bragging rights' & don't even care about sound quality, at all. 4 instance, planar speakers all sound like $hit, pretty much = jaggy & harsh & compressed, & sometimes they would want 'affirmation' like asking what I think & I'm like 'pretty cool (if U like the sound of breaking glass & nails on a blackboard =)) = "may want 2 compare 2 what we carry & C what U think' =))

[@About67Crabs]

huh, just like how i think about music in general...it may be promoting racism and illegal things....if it sounds good, it's good...no matter the message it holds....it's like poetry and yapanese....one obviously sounds better since it rhymes, while the otter can still sound good in it's own way

[@GamePlayMetal]

Often in musician and engineer circles that I'm in, people make fun of Behringer because it's cheap. And I'm like... okay, but if it does the job well, it's good enough for me

[@arlandajim]

Famous JOE MEEK's quote

[@gackaret]

It makes the zeros more round and the ones stand straighter - for safety and audiophile reasons.

[@WJCTechyman]

heh, that's a great joke. I find it interesting that in live professional audio the system is still more or less analogue, but the trick here is all of the connections are balanced at the line level. Of course, digital technology has improved here as well as the mixer channels can be shorter and the mixer can be split into two with the Engineer's control interface sits at the back of the theatre and is tethered by something as simple as Cat 6 to the terminal side that also contains the "mixer." If you want good sound, you make the shortest line level connections possible and keep the power mains separate from those connections.

[@tsamuel6224]

heh, heh, awesome

[@mKosta85]

Good one :D

[@Fosi94]

Lol

[@johnathanh2660]

@@WJCTechyman I seem to remember 'back in the day' the wisdom was: a) Use good quality kit (not excellent) but this is often for mechanical and 'jointing' reasons (not intrinsic to the cable itself) b) Keep your lead length short/reasonable - for both analogue and digital. Less noise transmission and noise susceptibility. Avoid coiling. c) Power - watch for line interference, with either noisy mains power or noisy power supplies and watch how the mains cables are routed. Keep them away from signal/data cables as much as practicable. And I think you're >95% there. Which in the audio world is good enough for my ears. Then you start RTFMing, and talking to the 'old sweats/greybeards'. Turn your BS meter on though, otherwise you might start researching leylines. 🙂

[@macleod1592]

I used to do car audio competitions. One time I was tuning and had my eyes closed while I adjusted a setting so I could concentrate. I was increasing a certain frequency and could hear I was making it better. Then opened my eyes and saw I forgot to push a button and I wasn't adjusting anything. Psychoacoustics is a very real thing. People think they should hear something, so they do. That's where the good reviews are coming from and that's where these snake oil audiophile companies make their living from.

[@DrumdevilNL]

It's pretty much expectation bias. "I'm touching the controls, thus changing something"

[@hb1338]

I have done single-blind and double-blind listening tests on audiophiles. Their results were woefully poor - when asked to describe the difference between two signals, there was any amount of confirmation bias and auto-suggestion at work, and also a desire to hear to hear things that weren't there in order to demonstrate their supposedly superior ears.

[@appliedengineering4001]

There was this audio engineer that had to deal with audiophiles and one of the things he would do is adjust knobs and sliders on his mixing console that weren't assign to anything. He would then ask the audiophile if it sounded better and they would always say yes. Even though he didn't change a thing.

[@makexxwar]

This is true of many things. For instance, people tasting cheap wine with a story about it being expensive will say it tastes better than cheap wine they're told is cheap. Brain scans show that when they're told its expensive and special, more areas of the brain controlling pleasure light up, so the experience really does change for them. Bottom line is we can't trust our brains to be objective when it comes to something as subjective as taste, whether it be music or wine.

[@srpenguinbr]

@@makexxwar what do you think about wired vs bluetooth? I think bluetooth is noiser on my headphones, but I use it anyway

[@sonderheppo]

Record both. Overlay them. Reverse the phase on one Recording. They will most definitely erase each other completely.

[@TheElectricMayhem]

Get outta here with your logic and sound methodologies. Much better to go off feelings.

[@filetransferprotocoldoctor]

and if they dont cancel out completely there would be seriously weird shit going on lol :lD

[@PaulHofreiter]

You clearly did not see the crystals and stickers glued inside the box improving the sound quality.

[@ChefGoreb]

Yeah I was not satisfied with this video. We still don't know if they added anything to the device itself. So many easy tests could have been done to verify it actually doing nothing. Maybe stating that it COULD NOT possibly do anything because it being digital and encrypted, he saw no reason to further test it.

[@jdtubaman]

The point is... it will reverse only the sounds coming out of the recording. If there was anything at all that was different, a sound added, it will come out even if it is faint. People do audio extraction all the time to remove certain voices. Not perfect, but it is the basic gist of it.

[@nathanwilliams4364]

Linus, I used to work for a company who would hire a homeopathic "environment cleaner". She would come in to our office and put little holographic stickers on all of our computers and electrical outlets that look remarkably like the ones inside this switch. They were supposed to "clear the air of harmful EMF waves" and "block unwanted interference". I bet that's what those illuminati stickers are.

[@TheCapelessCrusader]

Did they actually work though?

[@MongyBongy]

... No

[@meddohotel]

was searching for an answer for the illuminati stickers, got it, thank you my man

[@privateinformation2960]

we have an extremely famous race car driver called Peter Brock who literally was a dead set legend but actually had a falling out with i think Holden because they refused to put special crystals in the transmission for.... i dont know, new age aerodynamics? EDIT - No the fallout was with his teammate Larry Perkins who thought he was batshit insane)

[@mod3l]

As an audio engineer I can say that with anything branded as "audiophile" gear there's a 90% chance it's bollocks. Speaking of, audiophile content is a neverending source of memes for us.

[@RottenCancer]

Bri’ish

[@DJDocsVideos]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[@gregoryhlavac4731]

Only 90%? We're talking 5 digits reliability here on scams c'mon now.

[@sylviam6535]

Audiophile products and skin creams are the pinnacle of marketing BS.

[@lekoro1]

what are the legitimate "audiophile" products off the top of my head, headphones and speakers are a no brainer you get standard run of the mill and you get more expensive higher quality stuff (although there is some hard DR to be had at the high end) AMPs and DACs (again huge DR at the high end) and that's about it? digital is digital its when you turn the digital to analogue where you can get noise and stuff

[@radekwroblewski6641]

About 25 or something years ago (damn, I'm old) I had this teacher who was also an audiophile. He claimed, that golden CDs sound better than the regular ones, simply because they're golden. We (electronics students) tried to explain, that it is a digital signal, 1s and 0s, it doesn' matter if it is saved on a golden disc or one made of birdcrap - as long as it is readable it will be identical. Like talking to a brick wall. That's when I realised that you can sell any crap to an audiophile for loads of money and he'll just defend your product better that you'd do yourself.

[@TheMechanator]

Like the gold plated hdmi cables from Monster. Doesn't make a difference since it is all digital and like Linus said, it may be unprocessable because of DRM encryption. (OR 3DES for network cables) If the HDMI cable was analog signalling somehow, then it might make a difference in quality of the signal. Next up gold flash plated, honey dielectric SDIF coaxial cables. Analog capacitance games on a digital audio cable.

[@ralphm6901]

A lot of years ago I saw a discussion similar to this regarding wooden knobs on an audio amp. The "upgraded" wooden knobs were supposedly performance-enhancing. Wooden knobs, on the amp, nowhere near the speakers...

[@roberteltze4850]

But were they remastered for CDs? The mastering process alters the recording to match the medium it is recorded on. Records and tape needed adjustments to counter how the medium itself effects the sound (simple example is Dolby noise reduction). In the early days of CDs they took the record masters and digitized them which is less than optimal. If the gold CDs were remastered for CDs then they would have sounded better. Or they could have been typical audiophile bunk.

[@wolfgangbonow2314]

@@roberteltze4850 I'm pretty sure they were NOT remastered. Some German "Hi-Fi" magazine back in these days did write about a blind-test they did. They wrote the same stupid stuff. Identical CDs, Gold and Silver each, claiming they could hear a difference - of course "Gold" sounded clearer, more punchy 🙂. Same snake oil, like with (almost) any audio AV-cable, but they need the money from the advertising. If you look at the pay for AV-magazines and their ads, the amount of super-special cables for anything is huge. There "might" be some valid reasons spending a LITTLE bit money for some analog cables, but I believe it's mostly people buying this stuff to make themselves feel better or superior.

[@stacysedgewood9600]

I love Creedence Clearwater Revival. I bought the gold CD, and despite EQing the crap out of it, it still sounded harsh, bright, and brittle. I wouldn’t go so far as to say I am an audiophile, but I think sometimes trying to make something better can backfire.

[@linzkirk]

I have worked in high end audio my while life, servicing and installation. I have seen a lot of snake oil products. So totally agree with this. Especially the part about digital audio. I remember when audiophile USB cables came on the market. And the sales rep saying, there and 1's and 0's and then there are 1's and 0's. Trying to signify that some 1's and 0's are better than others. NO. they are a f**king 1 or a 0. The only difference a digital Audio cable make is if they are so poor Quality the will give drop out causing error correction, even to the level of jumpy cutting out audio. This is also why companies like meridian use cheap PC CD mechanisms in their high end CD players, because it makes no difference, the difference is all in the quality of D to A conversion. Thank you for this video I constantly feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall trying to explain this to people. its all aimed at the type of customer that gets constant ID-ten-T errors

[@disposabull]

IT & network guy over here. I've spent so long, 3 decades attempting to explain the difference between analog & digital to audiophiles it makes me lose faith in humanity. How an intelligent, professional, mentally stable person who obsesses over a hobby so much they spend hundreds of thousands on it and thousands of hours pouring of details can still insist the $2000 gold plated USB or Cat5 cable makes things sound better is just baffling to me. It's a cult.

[@babagandu]

Watch the video they made about HDMI cables ...

[@mrz80]

@@disposabull One of my coworkers (who used to be my boss back when he did networks) is a degree'ed electrical engineer, who, tho he OUGHT to know better, spends more on his interconnects than I spent on my speakers. (*walks off shaking head*)

[@disposabull]

@@mrz80 I once had to try and explain to the head of IT, PhD in computer science that it was a bad idea to use software raid on a single HDD that he had partitioned.

[@chrisakaschulbus4903]

At the end it's stupid uninformed people buying something that google could clear up in less than 10 minutes... and the people who don't seem to have the 10 minutes but thousand dollars for a cable aren't really the group i'd die on a hill for.

[@Ohverture]

As an audio electronics engineer, whenever anyone shows me shit like this I'll always ask "Ah, but have they sucked the oxygen out of it?"

[@davidr6447]

Reminds me of something one of the Electronics professors tell all the new students....."All electronic parts are made of smoke! If you let the Smoke out....they won't work!"...

[@toastedphantom3007]

I mean.. how would they fit all that glue in there if they didn't?

[@jongmassey]

I only listen to oxygen-free packets

[@davidr6447]

@@jongmassey Great for my morning laugh!

[@MarcSherwood]

My cables have had the oxygen replaced with oxygen taken from the recording studio, during the original recording. Sure this can increase the cost somewhat (maybe $5000/cable/artist/album) but the upside is clearly there. I once had one of the cables leak during playback and the smell of that original oxygen made it like I WAS THERE. Lets say a good album can now cost me $5000 per listen, but I can tell the difference. /sarcasm.

[@dalestewart8254]

Probably 30 years ago, or more, the editor of a HiFi/Stereo magazine made the remark, "An audiophile is someone who listens to the equipment, not the music." So true.

[@valk1962]

This is the first half a problem. Second one is that often they listen to imaginary equipment. I mean equipment make sense if we talk about measurable parameters

[@CrisOrlandoBR]

I like decent quality equipment, but a good DAC / interface and phones should do it

[@WJCTechyman]

@@CrisOrlandoBR Yes. Exactly. I use ebay DACs for pulling the audio off of HDMI from my game systems to use with my setup's mixers and an old 1970s or 1980s stereo receiver. Even for a $10-20 device, the audio is good enough.

[@dotar9586]

I recall a "test" between tube and digital amps. The "experts" flipped a switch to determine which had a better sound. Almost all agreed that the tube amp was "richer". Then the switch box was opened, showing that it wasn't even connected.

[@HardAxe]

@@dotar9586 if you connect actual switch for blind testing, they will blame switch for ruing quality.

[@PratosKS]

Having worked with network equipment for years, this is hilarious.

[@mycosys]

I had hoped in vain it would at least be AVB, but nope, pure scam

[@hermand]

I love the fact it just doesn't even stand up to a millisecond of scrutiny if you have ANY grasp of anything surrounding networking. Like, it just makes ZERO sense.

[@TheJackson4eva]

yeah this is great stuff.

[@mycosys]

@@hermand There are specialised hubs for streaming in pro audio/video - but they support AVB which provides stuff like stream bandwidth reservation, fixed latency, specialised QOS etc with an industry standard discovery/control protocol.

[@freemansfreedom8595]

Also, me having worked with network equipment for 0 years and still find it hilarious on how obvious the scam is.

[@JN-qj9gf]

The fact that audiophiles can spend thousands upon thousands of hours "researching" and debating products and obsessing over components in their home signal path (essentially the tail end of a very long chain) while somehow remaining entirely ignorant to how music is performed, recorded, produced and distributed always astounds me.

[@anuntitledfox]

As a musician I can't help but judge them

[@aggi999]

Audio and cs engineer here, music isn't the only thing you can hear, the fact that people always obsess with music being the main component of audio always astounds me. Whenever I tell people that I'm an audio engineer, they ask what kind of music I make or whether I play an instrument which just makes no sense in my case

[@remcovandijk279]

Word. I always wonder how people think 192kHz recordings sound better when any professional mic's frequency response doesn't go (much) over 20 kHz anyway.

[@briantw99]

As a TV antenna and satellite dish guy in the 90s, my mind was blown when "AV philes" would spend more on a single gold-plated RF cable to connect their VCR to their TV to improve reception than to just put a decent damned antenna on the roof. There is no substitute for metal in the sky.

[@bassplayinfool]

You would be horrified at how many professionals also lack this basic knowledge.

[@thesweeney80]

Everyone saying "it's just 1's and 0's" doesn't know what they are talking about. This genuine, audiophile quality switch actually changes the Font so the 1's and 0's LOOK different and therefore SOUND different. If you really want to hear the difference you have to use audiophile-level headphones such as Beats by Dre. He's a Doctor so he knows what he's doind when it comes to these things.

[@IceFire1800]

I actually prefer my sound to have more serifs in its digital encoding

[@loschwahn723]

@@IceFire1800 i like fragged ments by memes

[@Thebustermann]

That explains why everything I listen to sounds like a kids TV show. Comic sans.

[@celloninja]

I'm 100% sure that those weird triangle pattern stickers/buttons that were glued in everywhere are the real "special sauce", aligning the energy flow for increased audio clarity by magic or some crap. I wish I were kidding.

[@Insan1tyW0lf]

They look like a sticker you might put under a glass bead to make it look from a distance like it's a faceted cut stone. Snake oil within the snake oil; just greasy serpents all the way down.

[@XIIchiron78]

If they're anything like those wristbands, they might even be radioactive!

[@GBR9794]

You weren't; some doorstoppers claim to align audio properly by reducing vibrations. A well-known snake oil reviewer Darko Audio was one of those reviewers that used it.

[@celloninja]

@@GBR9794 I had no idea, but I'm not surprised. It's amazing what people push and even more amazing that people fall for it.

[@Jack-ui4wp]

they kind of look like anti-tamper stickers. Lockpickinglawyer did a video on them and would make sense if theyre trying to hide the tech that they are using

[@apollolux]

I love "audiophile" videos like this because they always remind me of the legendary article from years ago about people claiming to be audiophiles not being able to tell the difference between "premium" speaker cables and _coat hangers._

[@mareli82]

you shud chek out techmoan, he have tested a lot of typical older snake oil products , like cd demageticer , cd beveler and other gadgets that do jack shit.

[@jokeletsplay]

where can i find that? i wanna read it

[@AbrasiveCarl]

@@jokeletsplay Techmoan is a youtuber just type him up :D kzbin.info/www/bejne/nF60qX93rdyroa8&ab_channel=Techmoan

[@apollolux]

​@@jokeletsplay I was actually trying to find the _original_ original article to source here, but everything kept referencing a 2008 post on Consumerist that looks to be unavailable and I was on a phone so I couldn't Wayback Machine it properly to see if it was indeed THE article I remember reading. Maybe GearSlutz or HydrogenAudio has a copy of the original? Timeframe would be between 2005 and 2008 since I remember first reading it no later than 2009.

[@zwerko]

Fun fact: 9 out of 10 top rated sommeliers in California couldn't tell a difference between white and red wine in a blind test. And they do that for a living. What are the chances for a regular Joe-shmoe (with more money than sense and who self-imposes the 'audiophile' moniker) not to be fooled by coat hangers?

[@yerrie1908]

most of the time we network engineers have to debunk a lot of nonsense but you explained the layer 2 part very well

[@michaelbates1426]

That was my only concern, as well as he explained layer 2, the proper term is called a frame, which is based on the MAC/physical address. The term "packet" refers to layer 3 messaging, which includes the IP address. But these details are only significant for anyone whose work requires a Cisco CCNA certification, and typically of no significance to audiophiles.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

@@michaelbates1426 And layer 3 can request re-transmit, layer 2 can detect errors (checksum) but there's no mechanism is ethernet for a retransmit. Since the description is SMB, a layer 3 protocol, I assume a dropped packet will be immediately replaced long before the buffer is exhausted. Also at the relatively slow data rates of an audio stream, and no competing demands on the switch, QOS is not needed nor would it help.

[@lazyhustlermusic]

@@thomasmaughan4798 SMB isn't a layer 3 protocol, though ;) When leveraging SMB, you would inherit the integrity/retransmit properties of TCP. If you transmitted via another mechanism such as RTP, there's no retransmits built into UDP. A bad packet checksum is simply dropped in UDP (much like an invalid CRC in Ethernet that drops the frame), it would be up to you at a higher layer to implement retransmits if you desired, although in a real-time stream you definitely wouldn't want to do that since you'd have data from the past trying to play, wedged into the rest of the stream, out of sequence.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

@@lazyhustlermusic "SMB isn't a layer 3 protocol, though ;)" My mistake and properly embarrassed I( am.

[@IvoTichelaar]

The secrecy, the attempts to prevent anyone stealing "the secret" and the overall messy attempt (glued over paper instead of a decent sticker) reminds me of former clients with delusions. I was a social worker and tried to maintain contact and prevent unfortunate escalations, so I'd try to engage about their current interests and activities to connect. I like science and history and comparative religious study, typically their topics, so our contact was effective, mutually sincere. They often believed they had discovered some technology, bordering on spiritual/energy/quantum stuff, that they felt improved their well being. They would take a pretty basic thing and "improve it." They were sincere in their beliefs, but there was also something of a get rich scheme in there. Like they would definitely decorate it with occult symbols and wipe it down with herbs or something, but also mostly expected buyers not to feel the effect, because most people are not worthy. The holographic stickers in unreachable places are pretty useless, unless the maker thinks the symbol and perhaps the magical colours etc are essential to the product. So I get some serious suspicions about the back story of this "audiophile conversion."

[@YouTubePremium-de1km]

Also maybe the crystal found inside is deemed a 'special' crystal with special quantum energy that improves all aspect of our lives. Haha.🤣

[@AnnOminous7]

The stickers block the harmful EMF signals. /s

[@IvoTichelaar]

@@AnnOminous7 a simple piece of metallic foil tape would be better and cheaper, so I don't think that's a seriously engineered feature.

[@AnnOminous7]

@@IvoTichelaar since KZbin removes links, you'll have to Google: "What does /s mean"

[@mrz80]

Ever encounter "Shun Mook Mpingo Discs"? One of new age spirituality's earlier excursions into the insanely profitable deluded-gullible-tweako-cultist-audiophile space :D

[@ninnyhammer64]

Curious about the yes and no's. Everyone who had said 'yes' wore glasses. Given that this was tested on the AB1266, which are *very* particular about the orientation and seal of the pads in their audio presentation, the differences they were hearing were more likely from the break in the seal due to their glasses stems as they shuffled the cables and not from the switches.

[@James_XXIY_crafts]

make sense, but originally I started thinking "oh yes, I also turn down the music when I have to see something" 😆 they had us in the first half not gonna lie

[@graybonesau]

10,000 IQ

[@farmminer4014]

I agree, people are not wearing the headphones correctly and then making it sound different on the other ear. It should be the same but they made it sound different somehow.

[@dm1i]

You're a professional detective, right?

[@LvnaticT]

but they were wearing the glasses in both tests so it should still sound consistent with one another, considering they didnt change the position of the headphones(which they seemingly didn't). So theyd hear both versions equally 'wrong'

[@DeadlyDragon_]

Network Engineer here! Perfect explanation of layer 2 networking, tcp/ip, and https. Good job! A lotta folks dont dive that deep and I love seeing that you all did :)

[@tuckersguitarfiasco]

im an IT Student and I have problems with understanding OSI and the layers. Wish linus or SomeOrdinaryGamer would do a full vídeo on it.

[@meeguelangelo]

@@tuckersguitarfiasco Search for Professor Messer on KZbin. He goes over the CompTIA Network+ certification which includes in-depth explanations about OSI, the network layers (theoretical) and network topology.

[@tuckersguitarfiasco]

@@meeguelangelo okay, will do! Thank you for this resource.

[@meeguelangelo]

@@tuckersguitarfiasco Happy to help!

[@jong2359]

Deep dive....? He dove thimble deep into the subject.

[@jrstf]

I had a friend that paid several hundred dollars for a power cord for his amplifier. We all know that audio sounds better when the amplifier is powered by a twisted cord as long as you get the correct number of twists. He also suspended all his cords on glass bottles so the floor wouldn't corrupt the signals as much. He ended up returning the power cord because he couldn't hear the difference with his setup. Not for a moment would he have questioned others who claimed an improvement for their system.

[@SpaceCadet4Jesus]

"There's a sucker born every minute." P.T. Barnum

[@mrz80]

Audiophile quality glass "cable stands" have become all the rage, usually at anywhere from $10 to $20 per each. If you look closely, you'll of course see that they're nothing more than old telegraph-pole wire insulators, available from any antique shop or flea market for what, $0.75 ea? maybe with the top half dipped in rubber coating.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

@@mrz80 Sounds like a pretty cool "retro look" setup. Won't do anything for sound quality but light them up with blue LED's and it would be awesome!

[@thomasmaughan4798]

@@mrz80 "The Audience JEWEL CableLifter is currently available at a suggested retail price of $60 each." OMG

[@fender357]

As someone who for a long time built network switches for home automation/AV it makes me so happy to see you review this. I had to argue with the people roped in by this for the longest time.

[@jono6379]

Toms hardware had a great article on something similar hilariously titled "$2,500 Ethernet Switch Effectively Isolates Audiophiles From Cash"

[@SeldomPooper]

😄😄😄😄

[@Crusader1089]

I like the Techmoan approach of showing the madness of audiophile gear: re-recording the 'improved' audio into a recorder, comparing the wave forms, and showing that the wave forms are literally identical.

[@oumu]

That's brilliant!

[@88porpoise]

"But that is clearly just because his microphone isn't good enough to pick up the subtle nuances that make the music so much better" If people want to believe, you simply won't be able to convince them otherwise. If people don't have a prior opinion and are genuinely looking for knowledge, both methods are probably useful, and this type of thing is probably more useful to many regular people rather than a more technical debunking. I do wish he could have gotten the crude off the PCB to see if they actually did anything to it, though.

[@oumu]

@@88porpoise In theory, you could eliminate the microphone as a variable here. Consider that multiple recordings of Speaker A will vary slightly due to run-to-run variance. If a second different microphone can reproduce these quirks, then they almost certainly are not caused my either microphone. It is either environmental noise, interference, or the speaker being recorded. Of course this result could only be achieved with extremely sensitive microphones, but that's a given if you want to evaluate audiophile equipment. Suppose then that Speaker B is also recorded. If the difference between Speaker B and Speaker A is no different than the run-to-run variance for Speaker A, then Speaker B is not significantly different than Speaker A. You could also cut out the microphone entirely (and the speaker, for that matter). If the equipment being tested is not a speaker, then there's no need for a speaker at all to test it. Simply record the waveform with an oscilloscope that has more precision than the run-to-run variance for the equipment being tested. Edit: but I agree with everything else you said. I admit that my comment is a little obnoxious because you weren't actually arguing the point.

[@GrayRaceCat]

@@88porpoise No microphones are used, all hardwired.

[@celtia6131]

@@88porpoise To quote Neil deGrasse Tyson: "You can’t use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn’t use reason to get into."

[@davidr6447]

Love this video. After 40+ years in IT and Networking I can personally say this is great! His presentation debunking the claims is absolutely correct. Ethernet switches are never designed to enhance anything. All they do is pass the gas onto the next connection and manage collisions. Anytime you add another switch between the source and destination it slows things down and does not do any kind of enhancement in any way!

[@mattp1293]

Great job giving reasons why people might think this is making a difference. You guys put thought into your production. And it shows. Also good to see your team not just all pile with negative ideas when they see odd things. Thanks

[@StuartBreland]

Feels like D-Link would want to protect their brand here and do a cease and desist.

[@GunmetalG]

Nothing wrong with selling a base product! But I get what you mean. If I was D-Link I would have made them have a fat disclaimer saying D-Link has nothing to do with their product lol But it’s like buying a base model anything and upgrading it yourself. Except this company didn’t change or upgrade crap. So yeah Like Linus said, we should be able to trust, but it’s so hard to find honest people/companies. That’s why I flipping do tons of research 😂

[@sylviam6535]

@@GunmetalG - I would want my name removed from crap like this.

[@StuartBreland]

@@GunmetalG I get what you're saying because people take cars and make them "more" by modifying them. My point was more because of their marketing saying "Don't get a normal D-Link router for reasons get this one for reasons!"

[@bltzcstrnx]

@@GunmetalG it still have their branding, they should at least ask D-Link for white label product.

[@mahdi9064]

cease and desist to take more Ls as if exposed of being a scam isn't enough

[@eldibs]

Dawid Does Tech Stuff had a video about an audiophile NAS that claimed to provide improved audio quality, except that it was configured in such a way that it could be affected by bit rot. They wanted $25,000 for a NAS you could build better yourself for like $500. Also, Tynan's face while inspecting the oscillator is peak comedy.

[@Mom19]

Well to be fair, that NAS was expensive because it had some pretty high end specs. BUT even for what the specs were, it is/was still massively overpriced. Besides the fact that it was absolutely overkill for what it does 😂 My old 4790K that serves as a storage server now can do that shit. For a fraction of the price, including 3x16Tb drives...

[@Thect]

There are NAS that also have a built-in DAC, and in theory if the DAC is a good one, it might result in better sound quality. But I personally won't suggest that, conventional NAS have higher storage, more versatile, easier to service and repair, and better value. If I have that amount of money I might as well just buy a good dedicated DAC

[@albionmerrick]

That video was so good!

[@eldibs]

@@Mom19 Those old 3rd and 4th gen Intel CPUs do make for excellent cost-effective storage servers. I'm using a 3rd-gen i5 with TrueNAS and it makes for an excellent home NAS.

[@joshuasisson6816]

@@Thect this assumes you would listen directly off the NAS as well. Useless if you are accessing the NAS from another pc

[@Richard-bq3ni]

I use this switch as well, it radically improves my digital photos. Also bad word documents convert to writing masterpieces.

[@adamrak7560]

The component under the jewel is not an oscillator, it is a quartz crystal encased in a metal package (marked as Y1). The crystal is _part_ of the main oscillator of the system (the other parts are inside the main IC)

[@deang5622]

It is possible to purchase an oscillator module in a metal package containing the crystal as well as the amplifier and feedback path which outputs a square wave at the required frequency. Though in this case I suspect, due to its size it is just a quartz crystal.

[@nathanfisher6925]

@@deang5622 yes that small one is a quartz crystal, carefully manufactured to oscillate very accurately at its specified frequency.. It is the reference used by an oscillator inside the CPU, which sets its clock frequency. If you mess with this you just VERY slightly change the clock frequency (as the oscillator is optimized to run around the frequency of the crystal that has been selected in the design) Also that chip is doing ethernet networking so it really does need to use the right time base when communicating with other network hardware. If you're changing it, you're not 'optimizing' it, you're BREAKING it. If you change the clock frequency of your computer CPU, other components in the computer are designed to adjust. But changing the frequency at one end of a network connection is only going to lead to slow-downs or the other end just flat out refusing to talk with you.

[@spacekap]

"it's not about the hardware, it's how it makes you feel inside. You wouldn't understand, Linus" - Audiophiles

[@jdsaravaiya6468]

Its not about the switch, Its about sending the packet.

[@n_core]

Even if it's a placebo effect, after they watched this video that placebo effect will be gone and their expensive purchase is ruined. It's basically similar when your body having a serious illness but your life is just fine and well. But after you got diagnosed by the doctor, then you're starting feeling sick and weak.

[@bluevayero7269]

It usually makes you feel empty. In the wallet area.

[@Kitteh.B]

They'll say it's not about the hardware, until it is. "You bought a budget audiophile turntable? HAH mine's $3,000 and clearly superior!"

[@slothc]

@@n_core Illness can't hurt you if you don't know you have it.

[@bradleypariah]

Audio engineer here. A couple of ways of scientifically proving/disproving claims by manufacturers of these products: 1. Play both the D-Link and the modified switch simultaneously into separate channels of a high-quality interface, and run Smaart software to analyze the two signals against each other. Smaart uses FFT to display any differences in frequency response and latency between any two sources in real time. If the frequency response displays flat, then both interfaces produce the exact same audio. 2. Use a high-quality audio interface to record a particular song through each switch onto separate tracks. In the DAW, zoom in to the sample level, and time-align the two audio files. Play both audio files at the same time, but polarity-flip one track. If the result is total silence, then both tracks must contain the exact same data, because only sample-level copies of audio files can cancel each other out.

[@AliShuktu]

If it is a digital signal than there could not be any difference. Same as downloading a song and one time it is 5000000 bytes and second time it is 5000001 bytes in the song file. Would be funny, right?))

[@bradleypariah]

@@AliShuktu Obviously. Point being, if audiophiles accepted logic like that, then scam switches wouldn't exist, yeah? They accept Smaart readouts and polarity flips. That's their language. Indisputable. Otherwise, they'll just swear they can feel a difference between the switches until someone shows them proof with their own tools.

[@AliShuktu]

@@bradleypariah Hahah, good point. :) Wouldn't think about that they do not accept mathematical logic.

[@itoibo4208]

Gluing the screws is what makes it sound better. by stopping vibration

[@DaftFader]

@@itoibo4208 Yes because the network switch is also a loud speaker that vibrates. It can do EVERYTHING (apparently)! :O

[@EinherjarLucian]

Perhaps they are using some kind of Signal Encabulator. Perhaps they solved the problem of side-fumbling and sinusoidal deplenaration.

[@LeoStarrenburg]

Could very well be, and don't forget magnetic field induced epibration !

[@heavyecho1]

That sounds like a perfectly cromulent solution to embiggen your audiophile enjoyment.

[@5cyndi]

That’s amazing. Good walkthrough and teardown.

[@ElDubsNZ]

For future audiophile tests, have someone else swap the cables for the subjects. This way you can do "control" tests where they pretend to change cables, but plug in the same, and see if the subject thinks one or the other are better.

[@SN-hn9zi]

Yeah they needed Better blinding

[@neon-rust]

Or double-blind, having multiple cables so even the switcher doesn't know! But maybe that's going overboard...

[@ricardoamendoeira5689]

The subjects shouldn't even know there are Ethernet cables involved, you could tell some of them immediately knew that Ethernet couldn't make a difference and were influenced by that realization. Heck, they shouldn't even have test subjects, just compare the audio signals directly to show that there is, objectively, no difference.

[@narius_jaden215]

Even if this is understandable as a procedure, a marked difference would have been noticed if this was not a scam. Frankly, paying 800 dollars for this is insane.

[@HattoriZero]

Why use unreliable human subjects when you can just put it through a spectrum / frequency analyzer to compare the results ?

[@theSUBVERSIVE]

Alex always figured out the tests, even in the "blindfolded" 8K tests, he figured it out what it really was, not kind of, he was spot on - Jake almost got it.

[@dragon2knight]

Alex is an alien....

[@cadedavis241]

Which video is that? Wanted to go watch it

[@toymachine2328]

@@cadedavis241 Don't Game at 8k

[@endezeichengrimm]

Blindfolded 8K? How could he see the screen if he was blindfolded?

[@theSUBVERSIVE]

@@endezeichengrimmhe has foresight, obviously - which explains everything.

[@TomClaessens]

Thanks for this video LTT. Now I can point anyone to this video in the future whenever I get asked a question about a +1k ethernet / HDMI / ... cable. Like you mention, it's a different story with analog signals where I get that shielding, etc. is an important factor to "protect" the signal. But HDMI cables that provide a "deeper black" because they're over 1k is absolute crap. Or check the AudioQuest Diamond Cat7 cable pricing. But on another note, I do get the fact that you have a network streamer of 12k combined with a DAC of 10k, that you're somewhat reluctant of putting a cable between these devices of 5 dollars. Besides that, almost by accident I also stumbled upon the Melco N100 recently. You're right that it's "a glorified NAS" of above 3000 dollars for 2TB of storage. But in return, non-tech people get a solution that works for them. You press power, add music to a USB stick, plug it in and your music now lives on the internal drive. You have to buy a SongKong license, but meta-tagging is done "for you". There's the build-in MimimServer for uPnP playback, etc. Not everyone has the time, or knowledge, to setup something similar with a Synology NAS, or run docker containers on a Raspberry Pi to achieve the same thing. So it's a device that offers convenience to some that either lack the knowledge, or just aren't interested. You could argue that in those cases, the price is still questionable. But as long as people are unknowing, and get the convenience the devices claimed and offers, products like this will continue to exist. It's like it's easy to build a computer with a CD drive, load up EAC and rip it to disk (or NAS) for anyone who's able to follow some KZbin videos. However, it's far more easier for some to just buy the Melco D100/N100 combination, load a CD and be done with it.

[@heikosale1027]

You wouldn't believe it, but there's a company called Vovox that sells super expensive unshielded XLR cables for microphones and they're supposed to sound warmer or something. Because the signal is not shielded. 🙃

[@pieterschaar5613]

This with a few more in series and the Vinyl plattered Hard drive NAS made a huge difference, my wife sounds so much louder after the upgrade

[@bonanzabrandon6877]

There's one major thing Linus didn't mention as far as "where the positive reviews came from". Presumably there's nothing stopping those reviews from being submitted by employees of that company, or their family and friends.

[@GeneralKenobi69420]

Is that even legal?

[@XIIchiron78]

Some of them probably are fake but if you've met audiophiles those reviews are also super believable lol

[@dougle03]

For legal reasons he stayed away from making a claim about fraud. Quite sensible, but we can all make our own minds up for sure...

[@LtdJorge]

​@@GeneralKenobi69420 no, but selling a product saying that you modified it when you didn't is also illegal.

[@DoctorX17]

Or entirely fabricated… but they may also just be people who felt they had a better experience. No way to be sure as an outside observer, but claiming fraudulent reviews outright is fraught with potential legal peril

[@Littlebert]

Alex always figuring out what the tests are makes me laugh

[@mdzafri]

DSP lecturer here. I'm going to share this to all my students.

[@KeenAesthetic1]

YAASSS! Linus brings the audiophile smoke!! 👏👏👏 More please!!

[@giZm]

Loving Ian's review at 18:47, his files don't even pass through this switch yet they still sound better somehow. Truly a marvel of technology.

[@anepicotter4595]

The switch improves all audio data within 30 feet of it

[@tobiahderijk2274]

Screw pluggin it in as long as the improved charger is anywhere close to the netwerk its going to improve the audio.

[@johannoas1]

I think those reviews are faked by the employees who chuckled when they wrote them

[@arrone7]

That's just sad...

[@zimbu_]

Ian also says things like "As there is an extended trial period it is a safe purchase", obviously not an actual customer review there.

[@Safetytrousers]

You can just a/b an audio signal by inverting one of the waveforms (levelled) against the other and if you have a straight line there is no difference, if there are variations those are differences. This is categorical and precise.

[@markfarrell6810]

exactly, but you spoil all the fun :p

[@harbl99]

Clearly sirrah, you are no _true_ audiophile. Coming in here with your science and logic, and, and 'falsifiable testing' witchcraft. This is displeasing to the audiophilia gods and you will be accursed with untraceable hum for all eternity.

[@LuLeBe]

They won't be the same, because of the digital to analog conversion and because you probably can't line up two streams exactly. But obviously not because of whatever network switched they passed through before. To fix both the misalignment issue and the DAC problem, just copy the files from a network drive to your PC and mix them in audacity or so. It's not chatting because it makes no difference whether you copy the whole time over yesterday or just have it be buffered for a few milliseconds.

[@agevenisse3252]

Yes, but in this case it's like investigating whether a car moves or not while driving down the road. If you can transfer a file at full speed, the switch works. If you can't, then it's broken. If the data was altered in any way, it would be completely useless as a network switch.

[@hiddenlawyer]

Yeah, I do something similar when confirming whether a file transferred properly, I check the md5/sha256 sums...

[@wickedfuctup]

This was a great rabbit-hole video thanks Linus

[@Wooskii1]

At this point LTT needs to run double blind tests.

[@button-puncher]

This reminds me of an "audiophile" that I worked with. He talked about how he had speaker wire that he paid $100/ft for that was raised off the floor on insulators. He also had a wifi router sitting on his preamp and couldn't figure out why he was hearing weird sounds from his speakers. He was a tool so my coworker and I were of no help. Our suggestions went along the lines of... You should check the polarity of the resistors in your preamp. Some must be backwards.

[@Alpejohn]

Maybe he had the cables Paradox made that turned out to be just normal extension power cord, and several high profile audio magazines rated the cables as REALLY good and what a difference etc. I find that pretty funny. 🤣

[@stephanweinberger]

To be fair: for the analog signal in a speaker cable a changing impedance between the cable and the floor does in fact make a difference - none that would be in any way audible, but at least there is a physical process that results in an actual - albeit miniscule - change in the signal. The part about the wifi router though...

[@markfarrell6810]

lmao insult and injury delivered like Klingon revenge, cold and delicious!

[@hubertnnn]

I am curios about something. Normal speaker cables are not shielded. Are those audiophile cables at least shielded, or is it 100% snakeoil? Also would shielding speaker cables make a big difference?

[@RoganGunn]

@@hubertnnn As far as I understand it, speaker cables carry the powered signal from the power amp to the speakers, so they are relatively high current and voltage when compared to signal cabling (eg. phono etc). As such they are not affected by interference as much, as they inherently have a high signal-to-noise ratio. You do not therefore want to use a coaxial cable (ie. shielded) for this use due to the higher current involved, as they could theoretically overheat, depending on the power of the amplifier involved. So RF interference is not a big deal for speaker cables AFAIK. The issue is the 'audiophile-grade' stuff isn't shielded either, it's just "100% Oxygen-Free Copper" or "Pure Silver Conductor" or some such nonsense. A decent copper conductor speaker wire is all you need, not $100 per foot. It will make no audible difference, even to people with 'golden ears', and I guarantee the idiots buying it don't have the ears to hear subtle differences anyway! So they are 100% snake oil. Much more important is to treat the listening environment with bass traps and acoustic treatment to cut down on standing waves and reflections, something I guarantee no 'audiophile' ever does.

[@dungeonseeker3087]

Its actually incredibly easy to compare two audio waveforms thanks to waveform interferometry. Grab a really high quality PCM recorded, record a .wav from each stream, pull both waveforms into an audio editor, invert one of them then combine them together and you will be left with the exact difference between the two.

[@ReValveiT_01]

Indeed. I did this years ago because I wasn't convinced that "lossless" files were, well, lossless. Spoiler alert, they are.

[@JB-fh1bb]

If LTT Labs could get a *really* high quality recorder (1Hz-40kHz), it would be an excellent tool for these tests

[@phreapersoonlijk]

Techmoan does that.

[@SierraLimaOscar]

In this specific case that would be completely unnecessary since we are talking about the transport of the waveform (or any other data) that will be identical regardless of which of the switches you use. The waveform can be a 6kHz 8 bit mono recording of a phone call and it will arrive in the same form, shape or quality regardless of the path. There are tests where your suggested method would be really useful (encoding, compression, A/D and D/A conversion, ...) but not for this. The moment that the electrical issue that they are "rectifying" would become a factor influencing the transport, the audio would not be distorted but very obviously disrupted - up to that point the data would be identical.

[@davidhill500]

GDAY DUNGEONSEEKER,From Australia..can someone invent a small rechargeable magnetic base, frequency sampler,,,and combine it with an out of phase frequency generator…about 2inches round, angular faced dome on top ..containing transducers for sampling and generating out of phase received sound ..like an outer receiving ring of transducers,, and an inner ring for generating the phased “ SOUND “..thereby cancelling noise…or a pair…one receiving…one broadcasting…I WANT THESE MADE FOR MY PC…FOR A FAN NOISE CANCELLING ACCESSORY….does this idea sound crazy?????13_900K….+4090..64Gb Ram…in an ITX CASE…AIO Cooling

[@valterreboredo]

Nice work Linus! 👌

[@f1c846]

For all the audiophile guys out there: Don't put your network cable too tight around sharp corners... Put it like a banked curve... otherwise the high speed bits are falling out of the cable. It's like with the nascar racing track... ;-)

[@briantw99]

That kinda is true, even if facetious. You do not bend cables at 90 degrees, especially high-frequency ones, because the fast waveforms can't handle going around the right angle 😀

[@mrz80]

That's like Dilbert and Wally telling their PointyHaireBoss™ that his workstation couldn't connect to the token ring network 'cause the token fell out of the cable and got lost in the carpeting. :D

[@mfbfreak]

This is true for coaxial and twisted cables, though. Bend coax too tightly, and the core will get pushed into the isolator material and not be exactly in the centre anymore. That causes an impedance jump and therefore reflections. In analog TV systems it can cause ghosting or echos, in digital systems you won't notice much until the signal degrades so much that error correction can't keep up anymore. All good coaxial cables have a minimum bend radius specified. Typical digital TV coax has a minimum radius of 10cm or so. For twisted cable the minimum bend radius is a bit less critical, but you gotta take care that you don't cause a flat spot in the twist or break the shielding, if it's a shielded twisted cable. Network protocol is stupidly robust, people have run a connection over literal wet string, and i think i've had an 100mbit connection over a piece of 3 pair telephone cable that wasn't supposed to be here.

[@Deathrape2001]

U R mocking something as fake but in fact it does happen, especially with video cables, like coax will get 'ghosting' in video if U bend it 2 sharp, because it causes reflections because of the angle & so on = 'jumping the curve' sort of thing, so while trying 2 sound like a 'clever troll' U made yourself sound dumber = LOL In 'radar' they don't even use wire but 'wave guide' empty tubes = the signal just bouncing around in there, literally.

[@techbio]

@@mfbfreak I went to a customer office one time to investigate database corruption (in the old days of MS JET, very susceptible to corruption on poor connections). Turns out the utp cat5 cable between workstation and server was just laid on the floor between the two computers and the woman would run her chair over the cable every time she adjusted her seating position. The cable outer sheath had become split and the individual pairs had become untwisted along a length of about 10cm. No breaks, just untwisted and therefore no shielding. Everything worked fine EXCEPT the jet database which kept corrupting as the error correction couldn't provide enough stability for the connection.

[@ventilate4267]

Audio gear is the best place to find snake oil. The first solution to the issue would to be to stop coping about your hearing ability. I think because it's such a subjective thing people want to believe it's more important than it really is EDIT: Yes there's more variables to this than I wrote above. You can check the replies for those if you're curious.

[@AsbestosMuffins]

"More dynamic range and deeper base!"

[@potatorigs2155]

monster cable was the king of snake oil

[@ventilate4267]

@@potatorigs2155 truu

[@lain2236ad]

a Schiit stack and whatever good value planar is everything anyone would ever need for audio

[@Djuntas]

That switch is the ultimate copium. People believing so much in a product they paid almost 1000 dollars for.

[@Thekki]

15:45 the editor had a lot of fun with this one

[@TheRealDeal_81]

It’s their new foray into adult themed tech reviews @ Linus Tech T1ts 😎

[@Ajnoscz]

C*m

[@anidnmeno]

they really glued a rhinestone to the oscillator... i'm DEAD

[@NaokiGonzales]

Fun tip: If anyone remember those Powerbalance Bracelets with shining shimmering stickers inside resin, that is also the same what those shining stickers on Aqvox means. :D - a literally "Snake Oil" accessory - same as what "Sixth Element" Quantum Sticker also trying to portray to audiophile world, claiming it changes sound quality, but in reality, it does nothing.

[@Deathrape2001]

The stickers connect with the machine elf aura in the lizard alien illuminatti dimension 2 channel the Tesla ether gravity remote viewing hex fate for superior audio rendering =D Maybe I should start a joke brand? "The aura box = no inputs or outputs = no noise & no distortion!" =))

[@valliantsteed]

Snakeoil has always existet in every "high end" market, startign with gold plated optical cables. Techmoan did videos on a CD shaving device and a CD electrostatic neutralizer that was supposed to improve the audio of full digital media. His media test loading the tracks into audacity and having it compare the 2, leadin to a dead silent 3rd track.

[@WaLApA117]

Don't forget Dawid's look at an "audiophile-grade" NAS!

[@lio1234234]

The guys that go for this stuff are known in the audiophile community as Audiophools! 🤣

[@KingKrouch]

I remember that Techmoan video. That was a fun watch.

[@KillerinExile]

Gold Plated Optical Cables!?… My frustration trying to explain to the "educated" Visions electronics employee, why that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of, not even mentioning that the gold was just painted plastic.

[@CouchPotator]

don't forget CD rewinders! lol

[@vandit6354]

Techmoan did a few similar videos recently where he tests out few expensive devices that 'allegedly' improves the quality of audio CD's by 'demagnetising' them, and shaving a bit of plastic off the edges. All got great reviews on their website, and unsurprisingly on testing made no difference whatsoever!

[@ribertfranhanreagen9821]

Well audio quality at certain level become subjective. What they did is promote is with branding and marketing to justify it and people that buy will tell themselves it's better cause of their mindset and money they spend

[@THE-X-Force]

@@ribertfranhanreagen9821 It's not subjective at all when the digital waveforms of the audio track are 1-for-1 identical compared to the original audio file.

[@arc8218]

@@ribertfranhanreagen9821 is audio still subjective even if the waveform is identical with original file ?

[@Ps1ClassicGameplay]

I like to say people love to listen with their eyes. Expensive = better for alot of people and that will influence the perceived sound in their head.

[@MarcosRobertoDosSantosJF]

@@arc8218 Exactly. When both versions is the same in a null test, there is not a dfference at all.

[@christosius]

I was suggested the video only now, but I really like this format. A few connoisseurs of the industry, disassembled of course, look at a product of a supposedly totally legitimate company and evaluate it, depending on the quality and execution of the "improvement".

[@wavemode69]

If you stream over HTTPS, which is an almost universal default nowadays, your router can't even discern what data you're streaming, since it's encrypted. So it would be physically impossible for the router to improve, worsen, or in any way modify the audio data you're streaming.

[@phattjohnson]

This isn't even a router - it's just a basic switch!

[@philm94]

Loving the idea blind tests will prove anything to audiophiles. They'll just feel more special their golden ears can immediately hear the difference in a non-blind test.

[@acetechnical6574]

Back in the day someone on the very early internets did a blind comparison of speaker cables.... the one that got the most votes was 2 coat hangers stretched out with no insulation. :D

[@marloelefant7500]

My first thought was: Why do they invite "regular" people to listen? For an audiophile, it's easy to argue that those testers just don't know what good sound is.

[@JonaxII]

@@acetechnical6574 to be fair, coat hangers are made of nice thick wire.

[@HardAxe]

@@acetechnical6574 interblock cable quality is a real thing. The very cheapest sometimes has bad contacts at soldering points. Same goes for speakers cables. Should be somehow low resistance and preferably low capacitance? If you want *best* cables, check what professionals uses on stage (usually balanced feed-line). They resistant to all kind of RF environment handles power etc. Best cabling hands down.

[@davidroseman4989]

@@acetechnical6574 for a super wide soundstage!!

[@olivierlasne2346]

Kudos for explaining why it can't make a difference. It's easy to mock audiophile equipement, but I love that you took time to educate why it can't work even in theory.

[@SystemUpdate310]

this should be common knowledge tbh, especially among "audiophiles". If an "audiophile" doesn't understand that a switch could not improves the quality of digitally encoded packets of audio files, they deserve to be scammed.

[@arm-power]

Typical PC network uses TCP/IP which uses 5 layer model: 1st layer - physical cabling (copper, optical, or Wifi) 2nd layer - frame being send between 2 devices with MAC address (L2 switch like in this video, local LAN, corruption data detection via CRC code but without correction) 3rd layer - packet being send between IP addresses (router devices and some L3 switches, able to send packets worldwide) 4th layer - transport layer - using two types of packets and port number (for multiple transmissions at the same time): packets are TCP (with re-sending if data corrupted, most today's traffic) or UDP (for real-time data/video/control, generally for input lag sensitive applications like drone control, corrupted packets are detected and discarded) 5th layer - application itself - like HTTP protocol for web browser, or FTP protocol for file server etc. At this level data are encrypted if you use HTTPS protocol. So typical switch like in this video is L2 device with zero knowledge about what data are being transmitted especially when today everything is encrypted. Total scam and they should be sued for fraud against customers. Even most Hi-Fi world is about scam you cannot sue them because all that gold plating improves analog transmission a tiny bit. Probably not possible to hear the difference but electrically measurable. But L2 switch is nonsense. HIFI is a scam, it always been for decades. Anybody wanting high sound quality is buying professional studio HW (monitors, headphones etc.). People dealing with audio as daily job are immune to Hifi scam.

[@r.erf.90]

Great analysis! I would probably replace placebo effect with commitment bias or even cognitive dissonance as the phenomenon that causes people to endorse a product even though it doesn’t work.

[@kenneth.topp.]

a proper analysis would have just used precise network captures to see if there was any differences in the switch performance. this video is goofy.

[@kevin___]

@@kenneth.topp. which is the perfect to response to this bull

[@TechnologyMoments]

Thank you for taking the time to clear all this out, scammers are everywhere taking advantage of people wanting to solve their own problems. Thumbs up like always!

[@thebluelunarmonkey]

Every typical audiophile should know, the secret to getting a clean sound is to remove sound-absorbing particulates from the air by running an air purifier beside you while listening to the music

[@DaftFader]

They should also turn off any carbon monoxide sensors as they will introduce noise to the signal! THAT'S A JOKE BEFORE ANYONE DOES IT!!!!!!!! (I can't believe I even feel the need to add that lol)

[@alexanderkupke920]

But to filter as much audio impurities as possible, you have to run that air purifier with the fan on highest level of course ;)

[@dariocastro9079]

@@alexanderkupke920 not fan you have to use a soundless air filter that cost arround 1kk ... you are not pro....and D-link ... they cant even make a working plug and play wii fii usb-card.... ppl seriusly belive in that brand for hii end stuff? Saludos de argentina

[@alexanderkupke920]

@@dariocastro9079 I thought it was obvious that comment was less than serious. Besides that, so far personally as in my professional carreer, with those small unmanaged switches I found no serious difference between, D-Link, Linksys, Netgear, TP-Link,... you name it. They work fine for a while, you can just bet if it is either something in the switch or the power supply that first lets the smoke out. But keep in mind, that is about unmanaged chap switches for use at home or certain other situations, those sell for anything between 20 and 50 bucks. When you get into professional stuff, you usually talk about actual managed switches (and with managed I do not mean those with a very basic web interface), but then you are in a completely different price range and yes, then you deal with quite some differences comaring for example D-Link to Cisco or Aruba just to name two. With USB WiFi Adapters, so far id nid not even have mixed results. Those I had to deal with all have been crap. And coming back to the pretended audiopphile differences, ignoring how much noise the devices power supply actually can introduce into your power lines, if anyone still believes or claims that anything where digital data is transmitted can have any impact on sound quality without introducing an actual DSP and befor you et to the final stage converting digital back to analog for any kind of speaker, check how transmission of digital data works first.

[@utubewillyman]

Farts become more audible, but less stinky. Great idea.

[@jeffriart]

Those stickers looked a lot like snake oil audiophile sticker that promise to enhance sound or reduce noise by whatever quantum magic theory they had. Being a part of audiophile community myself, I have seen these stickers around.

[@CoalCoalJames]

Crazy car community / Crazy audio community~ *Put a sticker on it to go faster.*

[@THEimposterFOSTER]

@@CoalCoalJames yeah but the car people know the stickers don't add 2 horsepower, I'd like to hope.

[@Mammuth83]

@@CoalCoalJames Nonono. If you need faster, you paint it red.

[@tzxazrael]

@@Mammuth83 oi, dis iz da way, boys! [spoken in green... lol]

[@Red-zt1xj]

The holographic sacred geometry attunes the wavelengths its science.

[@shepshep8654]

My dad was an audiophile, I spent my childhood saying " I cant tell the difference"

[@barzinimongo]

I loved the positive review that said even though the sound didnt even go through the switch but straight to his dac it even sounded better due to less "constant chatter"(whatever that is) on the internet, lol. That was the icing on the cake for me.

[@sharpshooter370]

Alex is my favorite person, every time they try to get him with a test / demo he just figures it out off rip. Galaxy Brain

[@TakeNoShift]

A galaxy is mostly empty though

[@bigbrain8839]

@@TakeNoShift and almost full at the same time

[@bigbrain8839]

@@TakeNoShift but how we measure that

[@bigbrain8839]

How we define the volume or population of the galaxy while we never find any living organism except on earth

[@TakeNoShift]

@@bigbrain8839 By knowing that the distance between astral bodies is very far, and between those astral bodies is the vacuum of space. It's not hard to figure out. If you dot a piece of paper with black dots in the same way the night sky is filled with stars, you can clearly tell most of the page is blank space between those dots, and that's only in 2 dimensions.

[@MrMudbill]

Minor correction @ 16:39 Layer 2 data is not called packets, but frames. Packets is layer 3 data. Frames go between MAC addresses, and packets go between IP addresses.

[@michaelrichter2528]

this guy knows his OSI model

[@malborboss5710]

🤓🤓🤓

[@Crysal]

@@michaelrichter2528 You might say he did not throw sausage pizza away

[@Solkre82]

layer 8 issue.

[@MegaBanane9]

@@michaelrichter2528 the internet isn't OSI though ;)

[@ololh4xx]

finally ... yet again, Linus and the team do not disappoint. At all.

[@edrubin6042]

It sounds like they glued on Machina Dynamica Brilliant Pebbles and have one of the patches from a Machina Dynamica Clever Little Clock under the label.

[@therogueadmiral]

Not only is it snake oil, but they put in good vibes crystal magic. This is hilarious.

[@bkrapfl20]

With all the features it packs, it is rather cheap. I mean a christal AND 3 stickers of dubious source should have this healing terminally ill garden frogs over a kilometer away. That's basically a steal! They could even milk an bigger audience if they included the negative karma filter of cristal and goo in there!!!!

[@therogueadmiral]

@@bkrapfl20 its not that hard to spell crystal correctly, when I already did in the comment you're replying to.

[@hugogonzalez1749]

@@therogueadmiral *creestles 🗿

[@therogueadmiral]

@@hugogonzalez1749 close emough.

[@Endominius]

Audiophiles are always willing to see the emperor's new clothes. There's some peer fear that although they don't really hear a difference they have to say they do, or they genuinely think they do. It seems you can sell them anything at any price.

[@shyguy4617]

@mayte all that matters in audio is the tonality of the device your using this is why moondrop varations is the only good audio product in the world

[@acosadorempedernido3217]

Totally, no one wants to be shamed and pushed away for having faulty hearings.

[@bronyhub]

Used to describe myself as an audiophile to people because to me that meant someone who really enjoyed sound and considered it an important and often neglected aspect of modern film and games (see the horrible state of modern movie sound-mixing for instance). Then I come to find out it actually refers to individuals that exist on the same spectrum as flat-earthers; people throwing their money and faith at buzz-words and technobabble.

[@acosadorempedernido3217]

@@bronyhub I almost fell down that rabbit hole, but then I immediately realized it was and illusion dictated by other "experts" as soon as I accepted I'm partially deaf. Whatever gives me enough power and clarity to understand music and films will do, no need to chase the fantasy.

[@greetingsmars]

The grammarly ad was hilarious with Linus talking about staying professional while looking like the camera team bust into his bedroom, he lifted his head off the pillow, & then did the read lol

[@tomasvolko9944]

They really glued everything to be sure not having buzzing sound from electronic components:-) In very rare situation it could help on some of them. But I agree it's total alchemy.

[@dirg3music]

I'm an audio engineer and I think one of the most important things to realize is that music, at least when you get into the conversations about high fidelity and such, much of what we perceive with our ears falls into placebo. This is why spectrographs and oscilloscopes are so important to give us the whole picture. I can't tell you how many times people have asked me to turn up their mic, I pretended to turn it up so as not to throw off the balance of the mix, and they were happy with it the rest of the night. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: Audiophiles are just flat earthers for speakers. So are those "432hz healing frequency" dorks.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Yeah all those claims for A432 are really funny. I must admit the music being slightly flat does make me sleepy, but certainly there’s none of the supposed unique medicinal effects for each note! And the worst is when they say stuff about aliens too.

[@dirg3music]

@@kaitlyn__L yeah it always spirals into some utter nonsense. Worst part is that it all falls apart if you have even the most infantile understanding of tuning systems. That's conspiratorial thinking for you. Adam Neely did a fantastic video about trying to tune a piano to those "healing frequency" charts. The hilarity that ensues is 100% worth the watch. Lmao

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@dirg3music lol yeah I can’t imagine trying to get a physical stringed instrument that precise! That’s one neat thing about synths, you can do perfect tuning instead of TET (or other temperaments). But of course a lot of people don’t actually like the sound of perfect tuning since we’re so accustomed to acoustic ones!

[@TonkarzOfSolSystem]

To be fair at least some of those people are just thinking “this guy is hopeless, it would be a waste of time to ask again”.

[@DJGeosmin]

"audiophiles are flat earthers for speakers" im writing that on the road case for my midas.

[@jasonsong86]

Audiophiles are probbaly the most easy subjects for snake oils like this.

[@CheezMonsterCrazy]

Only the rich ones. Audiophiles on a budget understand scams and the law of diminishing returns.

[@shishsquared]

Lol true

[@nikkigrace5288]

Depends on the type I guess. I like a nice speaker system and when it comes to like, a halfway decent cable and amp, a nice hundred or two dollar pair of headphones, I understand paying a biiiit more money, but this is definitely way over the top. You’d be surprised when going to like, /r/audiophile or other “mainstream” audiophile discussion places, well over 95% of the people there agree with Linus that stuff like this is bullshit

[@LKN117]

@@nikkigrace5288 I remember reading on a forum somewhere about a guy in Japan who had his power company tie in like a dedicated line off the mains with transformer and everything just for his audio room. You could sell that guy anything.

[@PsRohrbaugh]

Let's talk about wine. There are some people who just want a bottle of wine that "tastes really good" and are willing to splurge for the $50 bottle over the $8 bottle. Then there are people who buy $1000 or $10,000 bottles of wine. Sometimes this is just because they're rich enough to afford it, other times they actually think it's better. Same with audio and audiophiles.

[@gouhou1533]

Once you get on the audiophile merry-go-round you never get off. great video and I wholly agree with your conclusions !!

[@arlandajim]

GREAT VIDEO, and SOOO FUNNY ! Thank guys !

[@dumpsterdawg]

Cybermen have taken over LMG

[@Yonatan_Aizic]

I like how they slowly transion the entire ltt staff into test subjects

[@KTSpeedruns]

For science

[@ocudagledam]

It's what made Aperture Science so great!

[@frankshort8183]

@@ocudagledam this was a triumph

[@Chilledoutredhead]

When do they get cake?

[@sigmamale4147]

@@Chilledoutredhead the cake is a lie the cake is a lie the cake is a lie

[@bobojerry1798]

20 years in the networking industry, I have seen/heard of a lot of snake oils or just outright ignorance/stupidity, but "audiophile" switch is definitely a new thing for me................ PS can Linus do a review (or should I say exposé) on "gaming" ethernet cables?

[@WorldOfSamm]

I feel you should have done a placebo test where there was no difference to see if the numbers of people who said there was a change was in line with a test where there is no change.

[@owenyin3316]

I’m kind of impressed at the lengths they went to to make each one as painful as possible to check

[@nauscakes1868]

I remember when I was a kid thinking I was an audiophile. The truth was, I just liked how 100 dollar ear buds sounded compared to the 10 dollar shitty ones you buy in a grocery store checkout lane. I still love my audio, but I'm a firm believer of "Good enough" these days. As long as it doesn't sound fuzzy, I'm a happy camper!

[@gustavrsh]

To be fair, there is the kind of audiophile that doesn't fall for bullshit. They care about frequency response, and if an amp can drive the headphone, that's it. Nowadays you can find cheap but high quality DACs and Amps from China, as well as IEMs. Everything else is snake oil.

[@tseikkisnelkytkaks9013]

@@gustavrsh They exist in masses in recording studios, the amount of midrange gear they use is huge. Because these days that stuff is just so good if you're not overpaying for a crappy product. Even tho I've been involved with music since my teens, I simply do not have the ears of an audio engineer - to me half the quality these guys require is "good enough". And even the best guys in it I know are saying half of the insanely priced products just don't do much anything.

[@FuzzyDunlots]

I'm an audiophile because every time I hear sounds I orgasm and so I orgasm all day because I can't turn off my ears. It's not a hobby it's a disease!

[@turkicnomad5632]

Dankpods headphone senses are probably tingling.

[@linnoff]

Completely agree. I know almost everything I listen to is only medium quality at best (mp3, youtube, etc.) so there's no point in going overboard. I enjoy how it sounds, that's what matters. The only place I've splurged is for my living room surround setup, but that's for more immersion in movies, not perfect reproduction.

[@mugogrog]

This sort of content is incredibly important and there is a severe lack of it from big platforms. All the woo in the electronics world is impossible for one person to cover and research unless they're an electrical engineer. A great example of this is the sale of supposedly anti-EMR equipment. I once stumbled into a facebook group with thousands of people talking about grounding themselves and sharing links to products and how great they were. Since a lot of it sounded like people getting taken advantage of I went to the business sites and started explaining why every single product they sold were either unnecessary, fake or making physically impossible claims. The most hillarious of the products was a USB stick designed to purify or negate the electromagnetic field not only where it was connected but throughout the whole house. When opened up the magical USB stick turned out to be a very cheap and defective USB board with some components missing. They probably bought them in bulk as waste from some other producer in china for a cent per, and they then sold it for... wait for it... 50 dollars. The more content like this we can get out there the less people will be preyed upon by snake-oil-salesmen and the more people in generall will understand about electronics.

[@gwg68]

With those crystals and the odd symbols, am I the only one who imagined a bunch a guys in hooded robes placing each switch in a magic circle and chanting a rite over them in a final ritual before packing them up again?

[@KrotowX]

Enough to imagine your fellow female coworker who complain about her laptop switching off in random. We had such case. And tech guys who was ready to kill themselwes because her laptop was completely fine. Turned out that the cause was her fengshui bracelet with magnets which triggered lid closing sensor in laptop.

[@mat.b.]

As an audiophile, I'm begging you Linus, debunk more trash! I hate a lot of this stuff but the internet is a cesspool of people arguing in favor of all sorts of mind numbing devices

[@ontheroad579]

I know they don't have fancy videos but there is "audio science review" for that.

[@chrisakaschulbus4903]

Lol, if i could sell this crap i'd do it. Like google can debunk this in less than ten minutes... if i don't have this little time but thousands of dollars for a cable maybe i deserve to get ripped off.

[@mat.b.]

@@chrisakaschulbus4903 wasnt talking about cables, just other dumb devices no one should buy to dissect for science

[@mat.b.]

@@ontheroad579 ASR is just as bad of pseudo-science tbh, forum is like a little cult

[@ontheroad579]

@@mat.b. I only read the reviews

[@glytchmeister9856]

So I am neither an audiophile, a computer scientist, a network engineer, OR particularly tech-literate… but the moment I heard the words “network switch” and “better sound quality”, I laughed. And then I laughed again when the intro blurb mentioned the placebo effect, because that’s exactly what I was thinking.

[@NotADuncon]

Yeah it's so blantant. Literally any other audophile product makes more sense. Even when my mate spent stupid amount for power cables so they are "stable" it was more believable BS than this. Then again sometimes audioshops are dumb too. I once tried to buy headphones at a guitar shop (they distributed some brands) and they let me test them by.... plugging them to an old PC and playing youtube music for me... (I came with a reference CD i know had good sound and I know what to look for...)

[@callummclachlan4771]

@@NotADuncon So KZbin music through what I'm guessing would be a standard 3.5mm jack without even a DAC.

[@PongoXBongo]

@@callummclachlan4771 If there's a headphone jack on a PC, then there's a DAC involved, be it on-board or on-card.

[@asdf35750]

So, "fast" capacitors are kinda a thing, sorta. It's possible that they replaced the aluminium electrolytic capacitors with low ESR versions. It s just possible that the low ESR capacitors might reduce phase jitter on the data going through the switch. So that will improve the sound quality, right? No. As Linus points out, it is an error corrected digital audio stream. Any jitter introduced in the switch will be eliminated by buffering at the receiving end when the data stream is decoded back into audio.

[@DeesoSaeed]

Exactly: jitter is a thing in digital audio but once you're streaming and then buffering it's only relevant inside the DAC itself.

[@Deathrape2001]

Linus is not god or something. There IS such a thing as 'fast caps' & U can definitely hear the difference. My fave R the 630 volt Sonen 'parallel' style winding ones. They have a more clear sound than others, & R not even expensive =) 'Slower' caps tend 2 'moosh' the sound with 'overhang' type artifacts, whereas the Solen R 'transparent'.

[@tjeerdvandijk1332]

Best way to test this is put them out of phase of each other and see if any signal comes through to determine if there is actually any change.

[@VRavTech]

This is, without a doubt, one of the switches of all time

[@jstowe56]

Ever

[@abxaudiophiles]

This video literally covers almost every single “higher end” audiophile component in the music playback industry. Just insert a different name and brand and replay this review!! GREAT JOB!! 🎉🎉

[@asshattery]

I did a comment search for ABX to see if anyone brought it up and found someone who has a whole userID committed to it

[@brkbtjunkie]

That’s why I just buy a regular Yamaha receiver. I think it still sounds incredible.

[@abxaudiophiles]

@@asshattery Now if just more people would actually conduct a few ABX tests... :)

[@asshattery]

@@brkbtjunkie at the end of the day speakers make the sound, from what the source sends out 99% of the good stuff comes from the speaker the other 0.999% is your pre amp with a teensy bit left for your power amp and all the other junk most that people can't notice the difference

[@asshattery]

@@abxaudiophiles I am surprised that they didn't do ABX, I'm even more surprised that they did not do some form of analysis on the data moving trough the switches to categorically prove that there is no difference

[@Tsuneharu08]

I like that. "They had to machine away part of the heat sync" it looks like they went at the fins with a dull butter knife

[@acutube50]

I think it was Amir of Audio Science Review that suggested that as well as the placebo effect, there is also the effect of stopping and paying attention to the music - do that and you'll hear something you didn't hear before.

[@CaptainFalc0nPunch]

This is in the same realm as the CD/DVD edge shaver that claimed to increase clarity in video and audio from discs by "reducing scattering from the laser". It was a variable speed turntable with a small chisel tool and ink dispenser to apply after shaving that sold for thousands.

[@Valveus]

Yeah, Techmoan did a video on that not long ago. Total crap

[@laurelsporter4569]

Many years after disks were relegated to backup devices, too.

[@Bespelled22]

I just made a similar comment and decided to scroll through and see if anyone else had made the same connection.

[@jamesjross]

I had a friend who I thought tech savvy. He is an audiophile. Loves his Hi-fi and cinema tech. When he told me he'd spent £100 on a HDMI I tried to explain it to him and was REALLY shocked he wouldn't believe the science. I later found out he took his dog to a homeopathic vet and everything made sense...Who he was. And the dogs dead.

[@briangunderson3859]

This comment wins the internet for today.

[@James_Knott]

Which is the bigger scam? This or homeopathy?

[@jamesjross]

@@James_Knott A scam is a scam.

[@pissoffkake]

@@James_Knott well, I do believe some homeopaths actually do believe what they're doing works. But I certainly don't believe the sellers of this scam does. So this.

[@Champdrad]

The dog probably would've lived if he got a more expensive HDMI cable

[@TheHonorableRyu]

@11:20 Maybe they put their "resin compound" on the screws too, to try to prevent from looking at their modifications XD