Itachi VS Pain - Who Would Win?

[@Professor_Fiction]

They got them eyeballs

[@dull1831]

what them eyeballs do tho

[@wingzero7678]

​@@dull1831They do be doin a lot

[@dull1831]

@@wingzero7678 type shi

[@canasdad9115]

You left out a lot of context when talking about Pain You claim Itachi did better against a Sannin than Pain but Pain fought in the Rain Village where he couldn’t use his strongest abilities or he’d destroy the entire village he’s in charge of. Itachi could only have that feat against Orochimaru with his strongest ability, something Pain couldn’t do against Jiraiya. You also forgot to mention Pain fought an ENTIRE VILLAGE along with prominent fighters like Kakashi, completely wiped out that entire village, Deva couldn’t use his abilities against Sage Naruto and the fact Pain was trying to capture Naruto alive. You never gave an explanation for how Itachi counters Chibaku Tensei only that Itachi found a way to destroy it under the setting of having two powerful allies with him. The Madara argument for visual genjutsu working on Pain doesn’t correlate because that’s the sharingan needed to use genjutsu not to defend from MS genjutsu. The rinnegan is the superior dojutsu, it makes zero sense for genjutsu to work on Pain. And even if it did, Tsukiyomi is useless on corpses that can’t feel pain. We even saw edo Itachi staring right at edo Nagato, why didn’t he use a genjutsu then to paralyze Nagato? Pain can literally just bansho tenin Itachi out of Susanoo and gets jumped idk if chibaku tensei is even needed.

[@Professor_Fiction]

The Sannin battle comparison was more about the topic of speed rather than raw power. Obviously Pain’s strongest move can one shot Jiraiya and I think they’d one shot an undefended Itachi as well, it was more to the point that Pain’s speed is still in that Sannin area while Itachi can just blitz Sannin. The fight with Sage Naruto was mainly supporting evidence to the Sannin comparison, although I do think it’s a good feat we’ve already seen what Pain at his peak should be like in terms of speed and his normal power levels(without big moves that drain all the other Pains). I don’t think it’s likely the Chibaku Tensei would ever come out in all reality, but even then during the War Itachi wasn’t at full power as he wasn’t at the highest stage of his Susano, and also took extra time to explain to Naruto what to do. If he attacks the gravitational orb earlier and with his full Susano I think it would also have a greater effect, especially since that was Nagato who is stronger than the Paths of Pain It being a “superior Dojutsu” doesn’t really work like that. It has different powers. It’s never been said that the Rinnegan has the Genjutsu resisting properties of the Sharingan so I see no reason to believe it does. And I never argued Itachi would use Tsukuyomi, I said he could use his lesser genjutsu to paralyze the individual Pains. Nagato was under the control of Kabuto who knows about Itachi’s Genjutsu prowess, most people know to avoid looking him in the eyes lol Not sure if Bansho Tenin would just go through the Susano, but even if it did that would bring Itachi into close range and mean he’d have 5 seconds before he could use Shinra Tensei, meaning he could get taken down by Amaterasu

[@jesusgomez3805]

🤝

[@jesusgomez3805]

LMAOOOOO

[@sxsa9309]

@@Professor_Fictiona blind animal path caught a kick from sage jiraiya while in a smokebomb bro😭

[@captaincrunch6044]

i think pain would win because he’s cooler edit: before fighting naruto pain was also winded from fighting and then nuking the entire leaf village

[@KanderUdon]

Im only halfway through but it seems like you’re forgetting that pain fought THE ENTIRE LEAF VILLAGE before fighting naruto. I’ll keep watching though

[@NonAryanDuck]

He never remembered.

[@Wavedashnoir]

It wasn't shown to have any effect on his chakra pool, and none of them did any substantial damage

[@kennethxu1789]

Leaf village with who 💀 bro was fighting choji 💀 Being serious, the feat of “fighting” the whole leaf village is extremely overblown. The only major fight is against kakashi, who is nowhere near the level of jiraiya or orochimaru at this point. The only real notable feat, in my opinion, is the shinra tensei that destroys the whole village.

[@Redacted_Ruler]

⁠@@kennethxu1789He was mostly tired from destroying it with the big all mighty push at the start

[@deathreaper4166]

@@WavedashnoirBro what he literally uses the Chaotic shinra tensei before fighting Naruto and only states he’s back at full power much later on in the fight. Using chaotic shinra tensei with the real body so far away took a massive toll on the Deva path and he fought almost the full rest of the fight nerfed by that.

[@Jay-ob9np]

Pain wins y’all gotta stop glazing Itachi so much jeez.

[@treylearns634]

Horrible analysis. Jiraiya had a massive field advantage. Running away from paths through piepes. Which allowed him to escape and allowed the trapping of the dog summon that is essentially immortal. Without that he’d lose to the animal path alone. Also jiraia trapping 3 paths in the frog song is irrelevant. That jutsu is discribed as the strongest genjutsu in the data book. It would have taken out itachi as wel and actually would have 1 shorted itachi since he doesn’t have extra bodies. The pain downplay is unreal

[@josephisrael8959]

Another good pro-itachi argument: 1. Minato declared obito to be stronger than pain after he witnessed both of them fight at full power 2. It's stated many times throughout the series that obito and itachi were close rivals and didn't want to fight each other 3. It logically follows that itachi is stronger than pain

[@Azal2712]

important to note but Obito straight up didn't invade the leaf village in fear and to avoid a fight with Itachi

[@canasdad9115]

@@josephisrael8959 don’t remember any of those things happening in the series, got links?

[@josephisrael8959]

@canasdad9115 read or watch the scene where minato talks with naruto in his mental space after he gets trapped in the chibaku tensei during the pain fight As for the itachi vs obito stuff. One statement is from the itachi light novel and the other is when obito called itachi an "eyesore" in the manga (I can't remember exactly the chapter range for that scene)

[@josephisrael8959]

@@Azal2712 yup

[@canasdad9115]

@@josephisrael8959 Those are both stretches 1. No where is it implied Minato witnessed Pain’s arsenal 2. what’s the statement from the light novel? “eyesore” does not mean equal footing

[@wingzero7678]

I don't like how it feels like nothing Pain could do in this analysis would be relevant. Are non of the big animals relevant to cause a distraction against Itachi ? It took powerful summons to fight them off, one of which (Gamabunta) fought tailed beasts in the past, and was still struggling. Couldn't the Asura path keep his distance and launch his missiles while the other paths fought ? Couldn't the Preta path absorb all of Itachi's strongest jutsu, or the Deva path end them with shinra tensei ? Itachi noticed the weakness in the shibaku tensei, but he also had kcm Naruto and a full 8 tails by his side to help, who's to say he could destroy one by himself ? 6 tails Naruto couldn't do it, and I don't think Itachi has anything that compares to that Naruto in destructive power. Of course it wouldn't be a free match for either side, but I felt like there were a lot of win cons for Pain that were not mentioned here. You used the examples of stronger fighters losing due to mathcup and strategy, but I don't think you gave the same credit to Pain. Still great video though, keep going Professor 👍🏻

[@devam8192]

Power scaling aside I will take Kamui over anything Rinnegan has. I mean you literally get your own fricking pocket dimension, while also being untouchable.

[@marcus7984]

"Pain doesn't have a Piccolo" Is one of the funniest things, I've heard all week. Lmao!

[@firelizardryko]

Great analysis and breakdown! I enjoyed the approach to this topic and your reasonings for the outcome you decided here.

[@lev6236]

Great analysis, man

[@sqoo5]

I generally agree Itachi wins this battle, but you seemed to downplay Pain in many ways.

[@gnoomlord]

if the paths of pain were actually near his main body pain just dogwalks itachi

[@SatorisYT]

I think Itachi is easier to argue for in a debate setting, but I side with Pain for various reasons. I've flip flopped a bit too, going from siding with Pain, then Itachi using the exact arguments You used here, then back to Pain for various other arguments. But I'll be doing my own video sometime on Pain specifically. Still pretty solid video overall though.

[@reidcacaro2919]

It’s been a while but Wasn’t pain holding back to some degree in the rain village. I don’t remember him using universal pull or chibaku Tensei? Idk if it really matters but I am just curious

[@grandlegomoff848]

Hi Professor_Fiction, Could you please create a video about the comments of Itachi vs Pain and clarifies some misconceptions, mistakes, and further details of this matchup. I read some comments that criticised you for ignoring or downplaying them, so it nice to make a follow up video.

[@Professor_Fiction]

I’ll probably go over them in a live stream

[@Shoddragon]

Would like to see perhaps a part two of this video with war arc pain vs war arc itachi. Itachi obviously stronger since he wasn’t sick anymore and Nagato also stronger since he had all his powers in a single body. I think it would be an interesting discussion regardless of outcome.

[@deathreaper4166]

Pain is heavily downplayed here. I’m Disappointed! Btw KZbin keeps shadowbanning this comment let's try again 4th times the charm :( I was pretty much expecting this, happy you didn’t use war arc scaling but still many disagreements with this video. I’ll list them below and you let me know what you think. 1 Sage Mode Jiraiya Fight: So first of all Pain does not struggle with Jiraiya and using feats from stomps of two characters to put one character above another is also a very dubious way to scale. The paths of pain vary in strength which is shown by numerous examples such as some paths having to drag other paths out of the way of rasenshurikens and some paths getting blitzed by SMN whereas Deva and Asura can intercept and react to SMN. Despite this, the mid-weaker members of the paths like the animal path can still react to Kebari Senbon which is Jiraiya’s fastest attack. While Jiraiya is only able to land a clean kick on the human path who is a weaker path while the other paths sit back and don’t even try to help. And the only other times he lands a hit on a path is when they are temporarily stunned from being hit by frog song. The Asura path also literally tags Jiraiya from close range and arguably blitzes him as he announces his attack prior to attacking by mocking Jiraiya from behind. Jiraiya is turning his head as they are both moving but is still unable to react in time and gets his arm blown off. It’s also not an offguard attack at all, Sage Mode is stated to have danger sensing and Jiraiya also has 2 other sets of eyes and ears on him (Ma and Pa) ontop of the fact that he was literally given notice of the attack. He literally just got outsped and blatantly tagged. The comment about winning is also likely in reference to frog song or setting another trap to single out Nagato, which doesn’t have to necessarily be physical stats based. This is further supported by Pain stipulating he would win IF he knew their secret, and obviously knowing there are 6 paths and a seperate body doesn’t magically amp Jiraiya’s physical stats to where he can just solo all of them. So at best you have itachi blitzing Orochimaru in a form that we don’t know if or how it scales in movement speed to his normal form. It’s possible Oro perceived the attack and didn’t move because his large body wasn’t agile enough. Infact even in the real world larger snakes are slower as their physiognomy is such that their larger muscle mass isn’t able to make up for the overall weight increase. But even if we grant full relativity or even superiority to Hydra Orochimaru based on the databook statements, Pain still arguably has a similar or more concrete feat on a full power sage Jiraiya which is a form that is stated to surpass the Sannin entirely. 2. Sage Mode Naruto & 5KS Sasuke Scaling: I have so many problems with this section. The logic for pain being only at sage mode Naruto’s level but Itachi eclipsing this tier entirely doesn’t make much sense to me. What has alive itachi shown that puts him on the level of a hatred amped 5KS Sasuke? He fights a Sasuke who doesn’t even have MS, and yes he’s superior to that Sasuke, but his feats against this far weaker Sasuke would not apply to 5KS Sasuke as well. Also, why does 5KS Sasuke scale to the V2 Raikage when it’s stated he can’t react physically to him and has to resort to Susaano activation and sharingan precog to somewhat fight him? And even Sasuke’s susaano doesn’t not scale to the Raikage, the Raikage cracks his rib cage with his forearm and was going to stomp out the Susaano rib cage before Gaara stepped in. The only reason that fight was somewhat competitive is because Sasuke coated his Susaano with Amaterasu which is a hax ability. He was not competitive with the Raikage in physical stats. Sage Naruto and 5KS Sasuke being implied to be equal by Zetsu also does NOT mean Sasuke would automatically perform as well against Pain. Sasuke and Naruto are different fighters and Naruto specifically had intel on pain. Pain is a much worse matchup for Sasuke as he can use shinra tensei to cancel out Susaano and easily use bansho tenin to pull him out of Susaano. The susaano is also made of chakra so it could likely be absorbed by the preta path. And naruto is a master shadow clone user with a massive chakra and stamina reserve allowing him to somewhat equalise the numbers disadvantage against Pain. So there’s really no argument here. Alive itachi has no direct scale to Sage Mode Naruto or 5KS Sasuke and even if you somehow get Itachi above Sasuke via dubious war arc scaling, that still doesn’t mean he would automatically perform as well or better than sage mode Naruto (who still got beaten btw). Also while we’re on the topic of sage mode naruto scaling, Deva beats Naruto while being nerfed for most of the fight from using chaotic shinra tensei on the village. He’s also expending energy and overextending his real body the whole time by fighting the entire village simultaneously. He only regains the power to perform normal shinra tensei’s deep into the fight with SMN and after that he’s still massively fatigued as Konan commenting that he’s expended so much chakra that he needs to rest. Yet he still has enough energy to trap up to an 8 tails Naruto in Chibaku tensei. Fatigued Pain ~> SMN who Itachi has no direct scale to. 3 Abilities & Wincons You outright dismiss a bunch of Pain’s abilities and wincons which in my opinion is pretty baseless. First of all pain doesn’t need to cleanly tag Itachi with certain wincons right away, as he wears down Itachi throughout the fight from having to deal with 6 paths + countless summons, he can then start to employ specific wincons. Human and Naraka are instant win cons on a clean tag as they have king of hell and soul steal. A clean grab from Preta should also drain his chakra to 0 and incapacitate him. Any clean hits by the Asura path’s weapons should also be enough to severely damage him, A ninja of Kakashi’s caliber couldnt even survive a mini rod flick from Deva. I don’t see how base itachi survives chakra amped missiles. Now, none of the abilities I’ve mentioned are going to work on Susaano. But they would all work on Itachi if he was forced out of Susaano for any reason (e.g farigue, chakra absorption/negation). Which brings me to my next win cons which WOULD work on the Susaano. Bansho tenin out of Susaano into tendo chakra rods is a win con (he literally does this to Naruto) And gaara can pull Madara out of perfect Susaano, so Pain shouldn’t have a problem doing something similar. Shinra tensei is likely a wincon as it negates chakra (which the susaano is made out of) and obviously Chibaku tensei is a clear win con. You mention Itachi being able to counter Chibaku tensei but this is only with Bee and Naruto’s help and while in Edo. There’s no evidence he could escape it by himself. Also, who knows what the chakra/stamina cost of the yasaka magatama beads is. The genjutsu point is also moot. Itachi says Tsukoyomi can be broken out of by attaining the Mangekyo sharingan. The rinnegan is literally a more evolved state of the MS which means Pain also has the capacity to resist it. And The Tsukuyomi is stated to be the strongest ocular jutsu, so no other MS genjutsu would work either. Obviously frog song worked but that’s an auditory genjutsu and the rinnegan is an ocular prowess, not auditory. 4. Itachi’s Stamina My last big point of contention is itachi’s stamina. It’s true that he does use a lot of abilities against Sasuke, but this is a holding back Itachi who’s also using DRUGS to prolong his life and increase his endurance. It’s fair to assume that against a much stronger opponent he would expend more energy and also we can’t just grant him his drug enhanced form that fought Sasuke, that would be against standard battle assumptions by giving him artificial enhancements outside of his standard kit. Without drugs, a healthier and younger itachi in P1 is fairly fatigued even after just using Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi once. Conclusion and final thoughts: Overall, I believe it’s fair to say itachi and pain scale in similar areas stats wise. However pain has the much better endurance and array of abilities. His numbers advantage also allows him to apply pressure much more easily. There’s no mistake why Pain has so many statements and overall lore surrounding him painting him as the strongest in the series until that point. There’s even statements that say even the strongest akatsuki members listen to him because of his power, As well as the editors end of chapter statements saying he’s the strongest man in the akatsuki. I see Pain easily wearing him down throughout a battle and eventually getting him with bansho tenin. Edo Itachi might be a different story, but alive itachi has major stamina and endurance issues, if he can’t win early with genjutsu, Amaterasu or totska blade, he’s fresh out of luck. Pain wins. Alright that’s all. Let me know your thoughts Prof! Also read my last comment on your Killua vs Feitan video and let me know what you think. Keep putting out dope content, this was an enjoyable watch :)

[@death2reaper211]

Hello me from my second account. I’m replying to this so KZbin hopefully sees this as authentic engagement and doesn’t auto report my original comment as spam. Btw Prof can you grant me some special immunity on your channel like how the rinnegan resists the mangekyo genjutsu? Pretty please ;)

[@canasdad9115]

@@death2reaper211 the rinnegan comment lol

[@akira6645]

Bro thinks this is a discord server

[@Goober12345]

Ur underrated man

[@OI_456]

finally a naruto video, waiting for the madara vs S class

[@2magnet]

I'll pick pain

[@2magnet]

I'll come back once I've napped

[@2magnet]

I'll come back once I've napped

[@SeeZer0]

19:02 Sickness/Stamina problems or not Uzumakis have shown way better Stamina feats than the Uchihas

[@Juubian]

I’ve seen enough, itachi clears

[@jesusgomez3805]

Let put in layman's terms. Pain has gravity and jitsu negation. While, itachi has fire and a giant puppet with a sealing sword and infinite blocking shield. Pain wins this.

[@DarkEye-re9zg]

Nice video zetsu doesnt really call pain invincible. He said this after itachi died but even then in original Japanese he only said obito thought of a backup nothing about i cant believe pain died like viz added. Databooks are mostly correct. Their hyperboles usually are not translated properly, not taken in context or in worst scenarios directly contradicted by feats. They do call pain invincible but the word they use in Japanese is fuhaii which just means invincible because of an unbeaten record. Itachi is called muteki-invincible in its truest sense. The susanoo is not called the strongest dojutsu. Its actually the mangekyo of itachi itself. The susanoo brings him on an even higher level. The 2nd fanbook written after the pain fight also says itachis power surpasses everything so its consistent. With storm connections obito thinks itachi is unbeatable and unsurpassable. Overall this remains true till the war arc until madara comes.

[@ajayimoses2495]

Itachi wins this battle in general The more juicy arguments are against rejuvenated nagato

[@goofygoober69-y5s]

Pain wins because he is cooler

[@Wordetto101]

Pain also no diffed Orochi just like Itachi did

[@sassofono0]

Pain vs THE SOLO KING

[@preonyt]

W ITACHI

[@DT25659]

Both Obito victims

[@dull1831]

good video

[@steveweast475]

Pain wins

[@KidGokuSolos]

Goku would win

[@marwyn8152]

Pain's portrayal is mediocre. Minato considered him as merely an obstacle. Itachi didn't even talk about Pain, only Obito. Itachi and Obito (indirectly) didn't consider Pain to be able to stand against Itachi. Itachi stated that him and Nagato together would be nigh unstoppable, meaning he is closer to Nagato than Pain. And then you have a nerfed edo Itachi, who "killed" a vastly superior version of Pain not once, not twice, but three times. In the end, Itachi has more arguments in his favour. Edo Itachi undoubtedly so.

[@canasdad9115]

@@marwyn8152 Love it when itachi fanboys ignore naruto and bee being present

[@theonewhostandsaboveall]

“I would win” -Me Random guy and upcoming youtuber.

[@theonewhostandsaboveall]

But fr Itachi would win but pain is “stronger” Itachi whole thing is about finding the weakness to any jutsu and IF he was alive in PERFECT health he very well maybe STRONGER than Pain, just to mention he has more talent than Pain.

[@jamaulwinston490]

Itachi is the strongest shinobi of his generation. He didn't need madara's eyes or hashirama cell, unlike his predecessors.

[@GundamnWing]

Itachi ain't glazed, he's just that good

[@nosauceorbrothchild8772]

Stop the downplay Jiraya is not equal to Orchimaru. Orchimaru is both equal to Hiruzen.

[@NonAryanDuck]

They're both equal to Hiruzen.

[@nosauceorbrothchild8772]

@ They are not equal to Hiruzen even in his old age.

[@GHOULSPBS]

And Obito would crush both :)

[@jamaulwinston490]

Obito is a bum without madara& hashirama cells. 😂

[@GHOULSPBS]

@@jamaulwinston490 bro have you even seen whack-a-mole jutsu?!?

[@baboin1851]

My favourite vs character debate in powerscaling history!

[@uhhhh-h8m]

Huge W video, I knew you'd come come through with the right eyeball man 🙏

[@Wavedashnoir]

Itachi wins,great video aswell fam

[@Mavuika_Gyaru]

Power scalers being brain dead as usual. Obviously Pain is stronger, he's their leader

[@2magnet]

I'll pick pain