ITB's vs Single throttle inlet manifold - Gold 4age - Garage4age

[@shehzaadsumad8454]

Currently my best channel on KZbin. No unnecessary talking and cinematics just straight to the point! Please keep up the great work buddy

[@brady5829]

Agreed. It been an automatic click for me since I found the channel

[@boronat1]

yes, we need this guy to test more things like this, some myths etc

[@moninum]

Not to forget the sound!

[@jonathanryan2915]

Also no obnoxious music played while trying to listen to the car

[@bmwsfc]

That long runner increased the medium speed torque so much...Good job!

[@theAngelofhevn]

This is so interesting to watch when you show each pull how it affects the powerband! Keep it up!

[@DP-nr1hz]

It's obviously great having a dyno in your home garage

[@luismeixner2125]

by far one of the most interesting channels on youtube. keep it up!

[@HouseholdDog]

Must be the most comprehensive testing channel around.

[@spyrosevangelinos5785]

My friend you are making the most interesting videos Good work!!!!

[@renz1013]

you really need a pure sound video, like these videos arent bad but your 4a-ge engine builds just sound so good

[@Garage4age]

One day will invest in a better mic. they sound better in person!

[@renz1013]

@@Garage4age thanks because even though i cant be there to hear it my self i can still appreciate it more

[@lowdl]

Very interesting to see the power difference by fitting the itbs. Those long runners make all the difference. ITB's without those long runners is pointless. Sounds good though. Long runners ftw. Thanks for making this.

[@kalebgullan4157]

Would long runners and itbs on an economy head still be a noticeable power increase when tuned correctly. 4afe for example

[@rushanegray3426]

I have the same question

[@abdullaalameri90]

Keep it up. Straight to the point like an arrow

[@nestorasrose4838]

Hey man, do this tests now that you have added the cams. I am really interested to see how the pressure waves differ with the different manifolds with the big cams. Favourite channel on youtube by far!

[@Garage4age]

May try it, after finish going down exhaust rabbit hole..

[@suronsoon8913]

Thank you so much, for your hard work...

[@clubstyleridahd4695]

This info transfers to my motorcycle builds and choosing the right size velocity stacks, intake all that. Good stuff! I'd like to see some exhaust combinations

[@averagenine8193]

Nice work as always. One of the most informative channels.

[@jareknowak8712]

ITB does not improve max powah automatically, it improves engine response, bc the butterfly valve is closer to the cylinder, and higher density air, which is right before the bf-valve, have shorter path to the cylinder. Between the closed throttle and workng cylinder there is a vaccum, air have lower pressure than atmosphere. There is not much difference in response, thats why not many stock cars, even sports cars, have ITB. Great vid, as usual. Cheers!

[@WOTTechnologies]

Properly tuned, they most certainly do. The BMW m20 jumps from ~145whp to 175whp straight away with ITB. I did an m50 (155whp stock), added Jenvey ITB's and the car immediately made 177whp with everything but fuel maps being stock. Many folks are adapting the ITB's from the s54 for the earlier 24v 6's (m50, m52, USDM s50 etc) for the same reason. The s54 with it's 3.2 liters makes 355 from the factory, many cars running around here making 400+ with bolt-ons.

[@Chaos_God_of_Fate]

This would probably be complicated to make and I don't even know how I'd do it. Anyway, how about adjustable runner lengths? So that at lower RPMs the runners are shorter but extend as RPM increases. That way you get the low end power that short runners give and swap over to the high end power that longer gives. That sounds like a really neat experiment to try to solve. I love that you're using an old CRT Monitor with the Computer! At least it looks like one from what I can see.

[@bearwynn]

my 2014 honda civic has this exact thing from the factory

[@Liveforeever]

This is the best quality content channel on KZbin.. Itbs only worth about 8whp peak over a factory manifold is abit disappointing or am I expecting too much from this 1600cc (stock I assume)?

[@Garage4age]

yup. 5% is pretty good for a stock cam na engine, across a decent amount of the power band. test kinda shows the stock inlet is pretty decent for what its designed to do at near factory power numbers, since the numbers come mostly from the runner length rather than the itbs.

[@mr.adventure559]

To get the most out of ITB's you need high compression ratio pistons, high lift camshafts, a good flowing engine head, a good exhaust system and an ECU tuned to all the above. To just drop in ITB's would be a waste of money.

[@Liveforeever]

@@mr.adventure559 I agree that itbs are more efficient for a built engine. High comp pistons is not a singular requirement as such because the camshafts will dictate the compression requirements and not specifically the ITB's

[@Liveforeever]

@@Garage4age but doesn't the factory manifold have longer runners than the ITB's? I don't get what you mean

[@Garage4age]

@@Liveforeever with the black runners on the itb's. runner length is around 50mm longer than stock manifold. judging by my other intake runner tests that 50mm is enough lose that whole peak the black itbs gained over white. the length of the itb setup with white runners, is what most people run on these engines due to fitment issues.

[@athiam152]

You definitely earn my subs. Keep up the good work

[@Diamotors]

Great Channel and vidéo. I have a light tuned 4AGE on my 86. It delivers 148 cv ( ACC 264, headers and exhaust, thinner head gasket ). I like your results. I hope one day to get some itb. The sound is the best all time.

[@kalebgullan4157]

How much power roughly does thinner hg ad, or shaving the head for example Any idea how much compression per mm

[@Diamotors]

@@kalebgullan4157 hello, I can not tell because I have AAC, headers and exhaust.

[@Micah_Makes]

Building an engine to enjoy running hot is a great thing. We had plate engines for Cup pushing about 50*C hotter than you're seeing now. Of course those live for 500 miles before being rebuilt. Might not want to go that extreme lol

[@spyke1135740]

Fwiw adding a velocity stack to the throttle body would probably have been good for 1 or 2 hp alone. True you saw an increase in power as expected from the itbs but it should be noted they had velocity stacks on them to smoothen air flow and help gain power. Not saying the power gained was only from this by any means. But the intake manifold would have probably done a little better with a velocity stack on it.

[@aftenstjernemix]

Absolutely brilliant content!

[@Dane33781]

I love the content you put out and this criticism is meant to be constructive. Assuming your AFR data is good, I think you could gain a little keeping your fuel more on target. Engines don't usually seem to like abrupt changes in fuel or timing. I've seen small gains higher up from smoothing things out down low before. Resist the temptation to be a column tuner. Again, I'm trying to be 100% constructive and I really do enjoy your channel.

[@Garage4age]

Hey. Final tune I get things tidier than what you would see in most of my videos. but there is barely enough change in power to be measurable , long as afr is within the window. a 10 degree change in oil temp will change power a whole lot more than an afr change. So isn't worth spending a bunch of timing getting the afr spot on when testing most things. I have a video testing fuel ratio. kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5vZgaB9ZpdmpKs

[@michaelblacktree]

ITB FTW! 🙃

[@robinlerch4795]

Really cool video dude

[@aaronwilson5607]

Would like to see you try different fuels and ignition tunes . Methanol would be interesting.

[@guillaumegaudin694]

a video about ignition timing and valve timing have already been done by this channel

[@KarolisSiauliai]

I thinked something like 10 times at least, but still was to shy to ask. I started a itb conversion on a 4 cylinder bmw engine (m42) and was generally looking for dyno comparsons before and after the itb, and well, it's really really hard to find something useful. Just few mx5 dyno runs basically. But then I discovered your itb with road cones ! :D And now this... well, the 2020 isn't so bad at the end :)

[@RomanDaveThings]

I think it comes down to, how crappy is the standard intake manifold? The worse it is, the better ITB result is

[@Garage4age]

@@RomanDaveThings Usually people who own 3sge's are untrustworthy. But roman speaks the truth.

[@RomanDaveThings]

@@Garage4age I was just about to post about my tupperware pyramid scheme but I guess I'll wait...

[@KarolisSiauliai]

And what about torque? Is there a lot of noticeable difference? Often the people talk about midrange bumps. Here this is evident too, but the scale isn't correct I suppose (250-350 nm range?).

[@RomanDaveThings]

@@KarolisSiauliai people usually go "oh yeah but gained heaps of midrange" to cover that their crappy itb setup has worse peak power than when they started. Usually because theyve just slapped something together with runners way way too short.

[@gbub]

Love your work

[@vGamBIT]

4-th cylinder rich may be due stock head (without porting each cylinder have different flow that affects AFR) or exhaust header or may be injector is spraying more that the other ones.

[@Garage4age]

head isnt stock. But that could be the reason why. It was the very first head i ported years ago. so that cylinder could be flowing different. or just the injector but only does it a high rpm so more likely head. its not the header as doesn't do it on my other engine.

[@mikewogren8138]

I found a large loss when the single stock style TB has no intake tube in front of it , Like 10hp on 140.

[@3800S1]

Same thing I found on my friend's Buick v6 race car. We ended up playing around and kept seeing gains the more length we added. In the end we had something like a 2m pipe.

[@Magovit]

top 10 channels for me

[@grahamdowney]

Love your channel and content!

[@LordLoMR2]

You should do one on Turbo ITB vs Turbo Single inlet manifold. I always wondered if it made a difference in forced induction.

[@Garage4age]

Main advantage with itb's and turbo, can get away with running a bigger plenum and cams. without engine running bad at idle and low rpms. I swapped from that dual plenum manifold in this vid, to itb setup on my turbo engine and it drives a lot nicer.

[@ItsOnlySmellz787]

great vid as always mate. let us know when you find out why cyl 4 is rich. head maybe? or valve seats

[@Garage4age]

will do, will rule out injector first but probably something to do with head flow

[@GTRliffe]

you should add a tb too that single simply weld one too the other side, adjust linkages and there you go, you’ll have the first twin TB four cylinder in the world i think air distribution would be ideal

[@javifsr]

How much different is the leght betwen the stock manifold and the long runners?

[@swe-fragels7722]

I ask the same thing. Would be interesting to know if the gains came from inlet design or hitting the "correct" runner length better.

[@JesseSpec]

Very interesting man! I will be doing some similar stuff with my 2zz engine on my dynapack dyno. You are definitely doing an awesome job! Love your videos. What ECU do you run on that car?

[@Garage4age]

Nice, It runs a link g4

[@JesseSpec]

@@Garage4age thanks! Did you wire it completely in with a custom loom?

[@Garage4age]

yeah. It used to be nice and tidy and almost completely hidden. but is in a bit of a mess atm.

[@JesseSpec]

@@Garage4age hahaha! No wonder since your constantly changing everything for the videos with intakes and all. Anyways, thanks for the chat and the inspiration 😊👍🏼

[@africankat1]

great work as usual. Could u do a test of a single throttle manifold vs itb of the same id, taper and length of runners?...if u can. maybe include diameters and lengths in future vids.

[@fernandoh.o1545]

Long itbs so much better, nice test

[@oscardeltoro898]

Excellent data, amazing sounds. You should look into long tip Bosch injectors, ones that have a 2 inch long pintle that moves the injector close to the ports maintaining atomization a bit longer. Any exotic fuels in the future?

[@Garage4age]

Have the long tip ones in my bmw itb setup. mostly because that's what fits

[@oscardeltoro898]

@@Garage4age I saw your other videos as well. You should look into E85 or more exotic fuels along with a box that feeds it from the front. Anything else will be determined on higher compression. Again amazing content!

[@yup-2067]

Tht itb sound is so good

[@liamjade5948]

Some red top dual beams content will be dope💪🇯🇵

[@ToreDL87]

From personal experience, and much to my dismay, the OEM intake is actually there for a reason, I got more power with that than shiny 4340 milituuuuurrrrry warrior grade cnc titanium w/e stuff. So see if you can slap some pipework on the stb, should yield more grunt. And lol at more power when abused while newer stuff conks out into limp mode in anything less than perfect conditions. And they say 4age is outdated ^^

[@Garage4age]

Yep cringe at all the short runner shiny stuff out there. fabrication, fitment and stuff vibrating itself to bits, basically prices anything out of the market that works better then factory inlet unfortunately . I tried a few different inlet tubes, on stock inlet. I showed one or 2 of in another vid.from memory it picked up 1-2kw in a few places with the correct one. some did nothing.

[@jeremygyles3492]

Have you thought about trying a "big block" 7a bottom end?

[@Garage4age]

never really been a fan of the 7a deal tbh.

[@jeremygyles3492]

@@Garage4age fair enough. Enjoy your new years.

[@noisysilence2411]

@@Garage4age what about a '9age'? 7afe block, 4age 16v or preferably 20v head, 2zzge crank & rods with custom pistons. A lot of machinery a ton of work, there's also a company specializing on 4age in Australia that also has stuff for the 9age

[@Garage4age]

@@noisysilence2411 Yeah not worth the cost and effort imo. plus increasing capacity is too easy

[@zewspeed]

I really enjoy all these tests. I am surprised how close they are were, I expected wildly different results comparing a single tb to itbs. Reminds me of when I was chasing 200bhp n/a zetec engine on a budget but I had access to a dyno at work so spent hours trying everything I could think of. Ive see you say in a couple of videos the dual plenums live on the wall of shame, is there a video that explains why that is? I run a dual plenum myself, ive read mixed reports with a lot of people saying they are best but there's not much back to back testing as far as I can find. The fitment is ideal for my application so I'm not overlay concerned but I am curious

[@Garage4age]

Its not really the dual plenum design, as to why they both ended up on the wall. the one in this vid makes less power due to the short runner, and isn't great for driveability and idle due to the plenum volume and single throttle. I think it would have its place in the right situation. The one on the itb setup, was done for fitment issues. ended up with the roof of the plenum being too close to the bellmouths. whats on my turbo setup now works best for me, the big single plenum was done to allow a lot of space around the bellmouths. and since is itb, it doesn't suffer from big plenum single throttle issues

[@TheNivekvideos]

Excellent Video!!!! Kevin Thornton "Extrudabody".......... Good Job Guys! :)

[@Oscar_SMT]

Good work. Very thorough and meticulous about how you do things. Would you be willing to do a video on the effects of staggered cams. I myself run hks 262 on the intake and hks 256 on the exhaust.

[@Garage4age]

My big cam engine has a weird setup that works really well. but is a secret 😂. I have a few cams hanging around that will probably try in this engine though. maybe even answer the age old question, blue top 240 cams worth using over the later 232's

[@Oscar_SMT]

@@Garage4age awesome looking forward to it. Also it would be cool to see in a large port cam on the intake and a small port on the exhaust has any significant difference in torque or hp

[@sivadyert]

Just bought a tad of merch. Looking forward to sporting that Tee at the track. I have dual Solex carbs on my race car and taking the plunge for some TRD ITBs. Not sure about ignition or ECU setup yet... Trying to figure that out. Hoping for a bit more juice.... Any suggestions? Your video shootout on inlet lengths was very entertaining and will hopefully come in hand soon. Thanks again!

[@Garage4age]

Thanks! What ecu you run doesn't matter too much, most of them are pretty decent these days. Best way is talk to who ever is going to be tuning it. unless you are going outboard staged injection or something fancy, as then you will need an ecu with 8 injector drives that can do staged and injector timing.

[@Pereke69]

Impressive video, when the test with big cam engine???

[@droid199]

Unknown: Why is the mixture richer on the 4-cylinder with ITB? Have the injectors been bench tested for performance? Or due to the difference in the lengths of the exhaust manifold runners? Or does the cylinder head have different CFM?

[@TheUltimateRanger89]

love to see the low end AFR dialed in to se if it helps, perhaps injector timing tests next?

[@Garage4age]

Isn't any power difference on this engine, long as afr is in the ballpark. the first 2 runs on itb's i pulled some fuel out on the 2nd run. I didn't put the graph up in the vid, but those 2 runs were direct overlay. you may have seen this one already: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5vZgaB9ZpdmpKs . probably do some injector timing stuff when revist the outboard injection

[@skidbillies]

Great video!

[@TransAmDrifter]

I expected there won't be any serious advantage in power over stb. Itb is mostly for shortening throttle reaction times. And for the longer inlets: yes, they help, but the higher the engine revs, the shorter the inlets must be. Same is for exhaust headers. Plus 4-2-1 and 4-1 would make a good high rpm change. It all must be calculated to work properly.

[@Garage4age]

The Itb's with black runners were the longest out of all the intakes. but yes the main advantage here is correct runner length. itb's do have other benefits than throttle response, engine with big cams will run nicer at low engine speeds. there is also some benefit having very big volume airbox and intake pipe or open throttles over a plenum around the intake runners,

[@TransAmDrifter]

@@Garage4age Thanks for the reply. On my channel there is a vid of my project car (the carburetor problem). I done a lot by myself, but marriage, kids, house and activities related to all of it all killed the time needed to finish it.

[@spitfiremk1uk]

When using your ITB do you set them up using AlphaN or MAP sensor? Love the videos, even the randoms such as the ultra long runners! Keep up the great work.

[@Garage4age]

Itb's tuned in alpha n yeah. the singles were tuned in map, as was easier to do that than rewire the tps.

Great video like always but there is a catch. U should test intake manifold with velocity stack and intake pipe :) or put some velocity stack on TB . U should remember how react 4 intakes runners witch and witchout velocity stacks :) . Great job , keep going :)

[@Garage4age]

Most of the change comes from the runner length. But may do a video on intake pipes. I wouldn't expect much change by adding a bellmouth or stack unless the throttle body is undersized

@@Garage4age Proper diameter and length intake pipe give u faster air speed. This will be help "feed" intake manifold :) . Flow is important but without good air speed is useless. Good design can give u even a little "boost" read on MAP sensor.

[@viniciuzz3840]

amazing vid

[@eduardomora7644]

By any chance do you have dual carburetors or Keihin FCRs to try in the dyno? That would be awesome!

[@Garage4age]

Don't have any carb stuff sorry.

[@thelol1759]

God I love this content

[@DarkKostas]

That's exactly the video i needed right now as it's the path i'm going for :D How much difference in power do you think you'll see between bigport and smallport head with the same ITBs?

[@Garage4age]

Likely going to swap a stock bigport head onto this engine. along with the tvis intake. then modify it. so if all goes to plan will answer your question. I would think similar things will happen as in this vid though

[@DarkKostas]

@@Garage4age TVIS should give that mid torque everyone is talking about compared to what you lose by removing it. I bet the results will be similar as you said too. Idk about low rpm though, but definitely a gain on higher rpm and oh gosh the sound. Who can resist the sound of the ITBs! Thanks for your response and of course all your content.

[@Garage4age]

@@DarkKostas I have this stupid idea, to try make the bigport head work as good as smallport at the bottom end of the power curve. since everyone is chasing smallport heads.

[@kalebgullan4157]

@@Garage4age haha yes, what’s a small port head in good condition worth roughly.. so I know what I should pay 🤔

[@FranciskitoR8]

Good Job !! i appreciate it. thank you

[@joshfoley8862]

Put of curiosity, what if the fuel injectors are move further up the ITB runners? It would give more time for the fuel to mix with the air.

[@ИгорьПопович-ъ6п]

Try to swap injector from another cylinder. To be sure that its not a just faulty injector.

[@Garage4age]

Ive swapped the injector to another cylinder. Just haven't run it up again to check yet. will likely be the head if thats not the problem

[@jamesdills6720]

​@@Garage4age You should try to port the head to make them equal in shape (but of course tested on a flow bench ).. it seems the only variable that can account for the rich running..

[@Garage4age]

Yeah this was the first head i ever ported many years ago. so wouldn't surprise me if that cylinder is down on flow. Its not really end of the world, can just add a fuel trim to each cylinder that needs it. but interesting to find the cause

[@ИгорьПопович-ъ6п]

@@Garage4age This is not because off the port 100 %

[@Garage4age]

@@ИгорьПопович-ъ6п Its not the injectors

[@leolldankology]

ITBs sound the best. 👂💪

[@hasanjad3263]

thanks for the content but i really want to ask i want to make an itb with my self and i was wondering if it Will run without tunning my engine is a bmw m50 please reply 😅

[@jamesford3549]

Really well done experiment and video. Are your velocity stacks 3d printed and adjustable length?

[@Garage4age]

They are machined from acetal plastic

[@jamesford3549]

@@Garage4age nice, fixed length?

[@Garage4age]

@@jamesford3549 yeah fixed. although i can change the bottom section easy. the top half is the same part i use on my big cam engine. kzbin.infoUgyZy73OUOND-uuFXAZ4AaABCQ

[@jontersiregar9471]

what happen ( fuel economy and power output ) if gasoline fuel injector changing with ultrasonic fuel injector..?

[@tortron]

Here for that al gore rhythm

[@jamespenner5982]

Have you considered a temp difference in cylinder 4 to be the culprit?

[@shawnyoung9142]

What kind of coil and ecu are you using ? What type of crank trigger system? Thanks

[@jaybee5390]

Heyho, ever tried using roller barrel intakes?

[@e34boat88]

can you try different angle of the itb manifod flange. so the air would have the best curve/path when it enters into the intake ports

[@Garage4age]

It doesn't matter much unless its horrible. I changed to a different itb and adapter setup in the past and was zero change in power. every engine is different, but further down the port and runner length more critical.

[@andrewleonard9257]

The ITB's obviously have a straighter run into the ports, than the STB setup. However, is there more to the equation than just straighter airflow? The air passing through each ITB has to be continually reaccelerated, whereas the flow through the STB would be much more constant. On the other hand, the ITB setup gives each throttle body a chance to fully recover atmospheric pressure after the inlet valve closes. Not so for the STB. Which is best? At higher RPM it's the ITB setup of course, but would a good compromise between flow vs cost and complexity be a 2TB arrangement, where each TB feeds 2 cylinders rather than 1?

[@Garage4age]

Its mostly the runner length and size that dictates the power. a good single throttle setup will get very close to matching and a good itb setup. But ITB will run nicer with big cams. especially so if start making the plenum size bigger on a single setup, to get more airflow / area around the runner entries

[@andrewleonard9257]

@@Garage4age I see. By 'big cams', do you mean long duration cams, or long with high lift cams? Have you tested long duration vs high lift? That is, cams without about the same area under the curve, but with differing lift vs duration trade-off's? I think that would make for an interesting video.

[@Garage4age]

@@andrewleonard9257 Its the overlap that results in poor idle. Cant really run high lift cams, without decent amount of duration on these engines. due to the valve train setup.

[@andrewleonard9257]

@@Garage4age Okay. What is the lift and valve diameters?

[@Garage4age]

@@andrewleonard9257 valves 29.5mm in 25.5mm ex. stock cams in this vid 7.1mm lift 232deg. can go up to about 11mm with big duration and undershim/shimless conversion. the vids where engine makes around 130kw is 9mm 280deg ish. 150kw is 10mm 300deg

[@Lucas-ck1po]

Why is one cyl running rich? Btw, did you ever compare your exhaust manifolds to a tri-Y (4x2x1) manifold? From a few places, forums, it seems that they are very good for midrange scavenging. Some folk with bigger engines say they are more effective till 7000-8000rpm but very sensitive to secondary section lenght. They tend to be very good to maximize extraction at many points at the rev range but it is easy to get the lenghts wrong. For higher revving engines, 4x1 seem to be more effective but i don't know which would be the inflection point to migrate from 4x2 to 4x1, also cam duration plays alot on that. Have you ever played with some of them?

[@Garage4age]

haven't tracked down the cause yet. It maybe an injector issue, but seems unlikely since mostly at high rpm. will swap the injectors around to check at some stage. otherwise could be an issue with the port work on that cylinder. was the first head i ever ported way back, so wouldn't surprise me

[@Lucas-ck1po]

@@Garage4age Oh, i see. And what about the headers? i think i edited my comment after you read it...

[@Garage4age]

@@Lucas-ck1po Ive tried a few different designs in the past including 4-2-1. but was along time ago before had dyno. whats on there works better than most ive dealt with. but have no doubt that they can be improved upon. I just haven't around to trying what i have planned. since time consuming and will be chasing little numbers, vs the intake side. probably something i will try when my good engine goes back in. The headers on there aren't the cause of the rich cylinder, as it dont have the issue on my other engine with same headers.

[@Lucas-ck1po]

looking forward to next vids mate!

[@TurboAcki]

I love this videos! For intake manifold compares - can you check Cyl1 too?

[@Garage4age]

1 does look a touch leaner on the plugs. I've swapped injector 4 and 1 to rule out injectors being the issue, but yet to run it up. will probably put something in next vid

[@TurboAcki]

@@Garage4age some intake manifolds have issues with the cylinder direct after the throttle body :-)

[@Garage4age]

Yeah have seen people have issues with no1. initially I thought number 4 may have been something to do with the back side of that runner, being so close to the back wall of the plenum

[@DoriFord]

Garage 4age pressure regulator imperfectness?

[@imadude85]

Not enough air is entering the 4th cylinder?

[@mariosnikolaou5212]

Nice video

[@phaqyou2]

What the length of your fancy intake runners?

[@AlwanHarliyS]

Nice

[@basti1255]

Awesome! good power with stock cams :O how tight is your squish clearance, and how high is the compression? im building a 4ag 16v with Traum Pistons, 264 cams 8.2 , ITB`s and martelius group A header. hope to reach good band with > 100hp/liter

[@basti1255]

would love to see what the golden turd does with some light cams :O

[@Garage4age]

This engine looks to have never had the block skimmed, stock pistons and head gasket also. so squish and compression stock. well the compression is likely slightly lower than the factory 10.3, as has had some chamber work done. on my other engines that run around zero deck height, i run .8mm trd gaskets, which works well. will be doing cams soon

[@satanaz]

If you take the bolts out, you will probably need to put them back eventually, whereas if the bolts are left in, then you would not need to put if back ;)

[@OzSkunkworks]

On a stock 4age (std cams heads pistons) what is the best nod for power increase .. I cant figure out how tgis motor is putting out so much power .. surely cant just be ignition timing and A/F and exhaust.. U had over 100rwkw with stock intake .. guessing a std 4age small port puts out 70rwkw at max..

[@Garage4age]

The head has some port and chamber work. for reference my "stockish" blacktop 20v made a few kw less than this engine on this dyno, in fwd chassis. was 102kw from memory. there isn't really just one mod to do that works best. all about getting things to work together nicely. its pretty easy to do the wrong mods

[@t.j2881]

Are you running a 4 channel wide band for ITB tuning? Or did you just use a normal wide band in the cyl 4 primary? And those are some impressive gains from the long runner on the top end! Wasnt expecting that

[@Garage4age]

just normal wideband in primary

[@CraigOverend]

Have you tried the ITBs in a chamber with single inlet like the single throttle bodies have?

[@Garage4age]

I have another video on here, where I put a big airbox on the itbs.

[@johnappel8969]

Do you ever run this car on the road. All fuel injected motorcycles use ITB and they nearly all have jerky throttle response when going off/on throttle at low speed as in a traffic jam. Did you notice any change in the off/on response when you changed from plenum with single throttle to ITBs

[@Garage4age]

itb's drive good. my big cam engine has some issues you speak of, but its due to the cams rather than the itb's

[@McHumaty]

ITB are more economy, right? Due to the A/F ratio.

[@alexanderSydneyOz]

So.... was it the ITBs, or the long runners which made the difference?

[@Garage4age]

bit of both, but most of the gain is the runner length.

[@aboutagirl1989]

At Wide Open Throttle the AFR is not supposed to be at 10.5 ? (cruising 14.7...) PS: I love your chanel !

[@Garage4age]

Usually 12.5 - 13afr on na. wide open. this engine will make pretty much same power between 11.0 - 13.5 afr

[@aboutagirl1989]

@@Garage4age oh thanks ! My AFR instruction manual tell 10.5 ... But your right !

[@denisso1688]

A rather stupid suggestion, as the air only has, 1 point of entry, have the ITBS, but cap it, like the standard inlet intake, but have, an intake tube, behind the grill, do you place a fine, metal grill over the intake tube, to catch flies, trying to enter the engine???

[@chilledn52]

What about… no throttle body velocity stacks. I got an example on my account :)

[@rifleman7313]

Has anyone effectively added ITB to a turbocharged engine? Would this work with a compound turbocharger setup? Such as a K-Series 4cylinder? I like the compound turbocharger setup that Eric Jarvis did on his S2000.

[@Garage4age]

my turbo 4age in latest video runs the same itb's as my na engine. i run them as they run nicer at low rpm, than a single throttle with big plenum. especially when have decent sized cams

[@rifleman7313]

@Garage4age @Garage4age Thanks, I had just never heard of anyone using ITBs alongside a turbocharger in the same engine. I will try and find your KZbin video of this if it is available.

[@Garage4age]

@@rifleman7313 some cars like the gtir sr20det and the gtr rb26 have them factory and are turbo. have to tune them a bit different to a single throttle setup. but isn't that hard once know how

[@r.a.p.k.models4160]

Im kinda stupid , i didnt see the results, how much was the difference?

[@rixward5475]

I just came across this channel , watched many others . instead of buying the merch can people support you via Patreon or a subscription? Im guessing your are a north islander ( aucks , gizzy or somewhere up there ? ) , I lived in the South Island a decade ago and for a while now back in Aussie, your content is awesome, there's another channel I follow is in the USA & he does v8's but it's a similar content (Richard Holdener) & he has sponsors, channel support. if you created this possibility you would get it too & a lot more followers, you could get sponsorship from Link & other kiwi manufacturers of performance car products to support your channel

[@Garage4age]

Hey, Yeah if company's or anyone for that matter want to send me something to test, happy to do it. Kind of needs to fit the channel format though. The one i did with kelford cams worked well. without bogging down the video trying to shoehorn in an unrelated product.

[@owen8538]

What's best single or itb s

[@TheCalvinSkinner]

So why is is cylinder four still rich? Injector #4? Maybe the port isn't flowing well?

[@Garage4age]

Yeah it will be injector or port. Have swapped injector but haven't run it up yet

[@aftastosk6016]

I had the that long runners add power at low rpm not at high rpm

[@Garage4age]

common myth. getting the right length for engine/setup is key. although power will drop sharply in top end if go too long

[@aftastosk6016]

@@Garage4age try to improve flow and stay at stock length is the safe approach

[@aftastosk6016]

@@Garage4age if the right setup is different than the stock length how are you going to find out? I know the question may sound silly but you got me unprepared.

[@Garage4age]

@@aftastosk6016 There are basic calculators to fancy software that will get you close. or if you are silly like me, try different lengths to see what works best. in this video the black itbs are a few inches longer than the stock manifold. If you haven't seen it already, have a look at this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/pKK8nKB5gdefe9E

[@AlienLivesMatter]

Superlong itbs to position plenum under car so it acts as its own intercooler ducted to airdam. Asking for a friend.

[@Garage4age]

going longer that the black itb setup has some pretty big negative effects. else yeah i would make a runner setup that sits the runner entries behind the grill

[@Fix_It_Again_Tony]

I love these side-by-side dyno runs. Can you show the math behind why the long tube ITB setup gives that boost from 4500 to 7000 rpm? It would be interesting to see what the theoretical numbers are versus the results on the dyno.

[@Garage4age]

I gave up trying to do any math, and just tested a bunch of lengths. whats interesting is the same setup works well on on this engine. as its setup to work on my big cam engine. There are plenty of calculators and the likes out there that will spit out numbers for reflected wave tuning. but there is more going on here, as works over a wider range than predicted.

[@Fix_It_Again_Tony]

@@Garage4age I understand what you are saying about the calculations. Really they are just a good starting point and even sophisticated simulation packages still need to be proven in the real world so running numbers in a single formula like the one for resonance of a tube with one closed and one open end doesn't tell the whole story. It would still be interesting to watch you discuss the math and how it it really only considers the ideal case and how you got started making manifolds and the like and what you have learned. It's a departure from your typical video so I am not sure if that is something you are interested in.

[@Julezaz]

Omg, thanks for Christmas cake

[@Мистер_ЗМЗ]

I think difference will be with air filter. Single + receiver will be better.

[@Garage4age]

do you mean the single inlet. with a intake pipe attached? better than itb's or just better than the single with no pipe attached?

[@Мистер_ЗМЗ]

@@Garage4age Air consumption is pulsed, receiver make pulse more flat and max air speed in filter decrease, so value of air consumption increase. Individual throttles with any filter make pulse of air more high, filter will limit max air speed, so air consumption decrease.

[@Garage4age]

@@Мистер_ЗМЗ when normal engine setup is in the car. it runs a big pipercross box filter on the black inlet runners. you can see the backing plate on them. Have back to back tested with filter on and off. power is the same. Thats on my 150kw engine

[@tiitsaul9036]

Very interesting. What causes cylinder 4 rich condition?

[@Garage4age]

I haven't looked into it any further since recording this vid. will check its not an injector issue. if isn't injector, likely be the head flow in that cylinder