ITS TIME TO... Send Help - Ret Paladin PvP - WoW The War Within 11.0.2

[@davidcovey3001]

Ret can be a contender if they made some basic changes. 1) Blessing of Freedom needs to have two charges 2) Eternal Flame needs to add a 10-20% (maybe allow it to stack to a max of 20%) damage reduction as well as the minor heal over time or maybe replace the heal over time with damage reduction. 3) Templars Verdict needs a damage buff by about 20% to increase our single target threat. The reason we need double freedom again is simple. Too many snares in this game that drop you to 20-10% movement speed to where you’re just standing there trying to get away or advance The reason for damage reduction on our Eternal Flame is simple. Rets ONLY true defense is our self healing which is fine in BGs, but add Dampening in the Arena and our survival is a joke. We need damage reduction not just heals, and we must trade damage for that defense which is something no other class must deal with, so our defensive heal should give us damage reduction so we can survive like any other class in dampening matches. Lastly our single target burst damage as you mentioned does need some help. Our Templars Verdict should hit like a truck considering it requires a ramp up, and we have to choose between the damage and our self protection through healing with Eternal Flame. Templars Verdict simply needs a buff. Do those 3 things and nothing else and Ret would be A tier in the arena.

[@Pizzalord91]

i also think that the unbound freedom talent should make freedom immune to dispells again. then its okay to have just one charge of it. but right now there are so many classes with purge abillitys

[@davidcovey3001]

@@Pizzalord91 Exactly, its really easy for classes that have limitless snares like mages to dispel you. And you only have one charge of it. Maybe they can bring back Emancipation, but I doubt they'd do that.

[@SIIKAP1]

@@davidcovey3001mage is such a broken class. So tired of their unlimited snares and massive damage without having to hard cast a single spell

[@davidcovey3001]

@@SIIKAP1 Yeah, I hear ya. They're not the easiest class to play well, but in the hands of a good player, they're godly and can pretty much 1v1 anything and win. They have countless defensive abilities, huge burst, huge control. They're one of the best dueling classes in the game. Not sure why people think a MM hunter should do anything but lose a 1v1 to a frost mage. Crazy to me...

[@SIIKAP1]

@@davidcovey3001 I miss the days when hunters countered mages. Now, mage counters everything. Mage, unholy dk, and dev evoker are the most busted classes in the game

[@SilentOne-111]

I hit harder using crusader strike than using a TV.. you save up all this holy power to press the button and be depressed.

[@diegost2112]

Ther fact that they buffed divine protection fo Holy and Prot and not for Ret, when all Rets are asking for it to be buffed, really says something. I have the impression that the regret making Ret more Tanky in DF. I hope i'm wrong, because it makes no sense for classes like hunters/mages/rogues to have better defensives and outlive Ret in direct combat when they have all the tools in the world to engage or desengage combat wtv they like.

[@FadedKai]

no dmg, no mobility, bad healing, that's my opinion on ret pvp. Edit: divine protection is a waste of a Global btw and fighting hunter that has better versions of all ret defensives and heals as a range class is dumb af

[@SilentOne-111]

Totally agree... am sick of hunters having about 20000 lay on hands.

[@diegost2112]

Hunters cried a whole expansion for buffs to thier defensives, because thats was their only weakness in pvp and obviously blizz gave it to them, because hunters needs to have everything i guess... Meanwhile Ret has worse defensives and all the weaknesses possible in pvp.

[@Szhusma]

Divine Protection is not on a global cd

[@miriamweller812]

What peopel never get is that tht most op defensive CD IS CC, what for range classes includes even soft CC like slow - because it's also an offensive CD. Because when you CC someoneo, they can neither do damage, nor avoid getting damage nor even try to just move out of sight. So all the classes which can CC spam are the most tanky ones. There is an obvious reason why bosses and even mobs in general when it comes to higherr challenge content are more and more up to absolutely CC immune Because CC would simply destroy any PvE content in the game. But then you got PvP where its just endlessly spamed.

[@Psc0Waks]

its off gcd tho

[@suhdoekin8998]

I literally just made a post about this. I pitched the idea of giving Rets, a form of bubble MS, towards shields/barriers. If we're talking "class fantasy" Paladins, similar to Disc Priests, are barrier Kings. IMO if they know how to create them then they'd know the weakness. Give Rets like a 15% MS towards shields/barriers. Yeah, I could see it being VERY strong in 3's alongside MS however, it's been done before with DK's necro strike, and those tournaments were SO FUN to watch. The good ol Cdew days.

[@terry6541]

Was there any ret pally on AWC 2024? I havent seen any, which means ret needs strong buff!

[@SilentOne-111]

Yep there was but they got smoked early.

[@TheHalbhas]

there was a Ret paladin!!!! IN THE INTRO XD everyone saw that!!!

[@SilentOne-111]

@@TheHalbhas LMAO that's the one I was meaning.

[@glennramstad8705]

been saying this since the start of the expansion, its a fucking tragedy to play paladin

[@xpyder22]

It always has been but we can still slap when we have better gear 😂😂😂😂

[@glennramstad8705]

@@xpyder22 i loved season 2 dragonflight, with that set bonus! but yea true, but now its at a high low tragedy!

[@Strangeland_TV]

Rolla here - couldn’t agree more. I would say we hit like wet noodles right now. I feel like my final verdicts heal people and with so many absorb shields it feels bad. Just give us MS already. It also feels a bit clunky to play ret and we have weak defensives. Oh well.

[@davidquirin2606]

Big agree on everything mentioned. Execution Sentence needs major help and it's only further self-nerfed by Ret not having its oomph factor. Crusading Strikes needs to apply some mild DoT effect too if they're going to lean into that playstyle for Ret. It sucks because that's how I like to play, but I feel punished or guilty for not taking DoT talents.

[@MrMazvaz]

Tried to pick up RET in TWW. Got absolutely demolished in arenas. I feel so squishy even though I am a plate class. I have all these support tools that I never really need to use to save anyone since I am the one dying. My heals do nothing. Almost feel like they arent worth pressing. It feels like I do 0 damage even though I am topping the dps meters somehow. Getting kited so hard its difficult to do anything fancy with CC. Disclaimer: I am a returning player. Havent played more than a month each expansion since MoP maybe. So I do suck on a general level. But RET feels like it highlights all of my shortcommings

[@nicholemarie4572]

It doesnt end up being a 6% buff in the new PTR bc of what they took away, it ends up being about a -2% nerf with the new abilities. They tried to balance the changes with what they took out with the buff

[@TheHalbhas]

the next patch changes r a total joke 90% of thoose will not be taken or they will be a choice node with key skills, the mini heals proc r literally one of the most stupid things i've ever seen 100k healing with 5 milions hp pools is a total pointless none will take it xpecially as ret i think. the only decent buff for pvp is lay on hand buff and forbearance to 20 sec all the other stuffs r a joke. or just minor changes

[@LvladenPvP]

Did I miss nerfs? Or are you talking about the removal of seal of order?

[@nicholemarie4572]

@@LvladenPvP Yes talking about removal of Seal of order and seal of alarcity. I think sims show that it ends up being between just over a 1% nerf in total after their attempt at balancing out the removal with buff

[@nicholemarie4572]

In saying all that, I think one of the biggest oversights is our current PvP talents. None of them really do anything, and your forced into choosing between many useless pvp talents. Where as others have absolute game changers. I really hope this gets addressed as well as FV.

[@flonker5961]

I don't know what other melee dps is feeling but when I use my cooldowns on Ret, healthbars definitely move. The problem is it takes 4-5 GCD to issue proper burst and if I want to go CC a healer, it takes more GCD and crappy steed travel time to go get a hoj or blind out on a healer. Doesn't feel good. Gotta work hard for it.

[@xpyder22]

What about your video from earlier about the patch that you were so excited about? Didn’t we get huge buffs for the next patch?

[@LvladenPvP]

@@xpyder22 yeah that’s next patch haha, I want hotfixes now 😬 these are just #s changes that need to be addressed. The next patch has a class tree rework that may address some of the defensive issues. It likely won’t fix the lack of burst though.

[@burburamu]

I'm surprised you didn't talk about a slow ability, because when I'm playing BG's there is no way I can get close to a monk EFC. He just ports away or uses his mobility as soon as I get there. With a slow I'd be able to have some moments to catch him but rn I just get slowed the whole BG or they run circles without me being able to catch them. I know we have dawnlight but I don't really feel like it's slowing them enough I can't wait for our divine steed with blessing of freedom haha

[@LvladenPvP]

I FORGOT ABOUT THIS I EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT MENTIONING THIS BEFORE I RECORDED LAST NIGHT. Yes they definitely need to add a real slow back to Ret. Bring back blade of justice hand of hinderance slow!

[@shiro2400]

U are most likely not gonna run horse blessing. Unless they decrease the CD of steed, it was way more optimal to run normal blessing. They should’ve just buffed steed to be like dk’s death advance (or their hero talent version). That’s the only way they fix ret’s horrible mobility

[@LvladenPvP]

@@shiro2400 yeah, unfortunately steed freedom will not likely seem much competitive play. It is much too important to have freedom for your teammates.

[@justinskoczylas9071]

Whats this week boss? Crafted neck or conq neck.. not sure if its worth dropping vers for that mastery

[@madseth316]

can u go over your current pvp gear and what to spend conquest on gems ext

[@cynergi7498]

correct wicked claws from feral is 20% MS

[@BasedChadman]

Pretty sad when every ret I fight has dawnlight doing all their damage. Outside of bubble / BoP, I nuke them down even as a blood dk. The survivability and base damage kit really need some work.

[@paladiator]

Hi man whats your arena enemy team addon? Gladiator ? U are great ty

[@veenix101]

When hunters hit 5 mil wailing arrow, my warrior which is undergeared hits between 1-3 mil demolish, nonstop slows, everyone having good healing... Yeh no wonder ret feels bad xD Hoping for DR on slows, waiting for rework and maybe some buffs to damage!

[@petersirota5124]

5mil wailing? I play hunt a lot, but my biggest hit was around 1,8mil.. With full gear

[@veenix101]

@@petersirota5124 yuppe, wish I screenshotted it, saw someone else experience it as well but on aimed shot instead. No clue how but it happend

[@SIIKAP1]

@@veenix101had to be world or a BG with massive damage modifiers. Wailing never hits even 2m in arena. Usually under 1m, but up to 1.5 ish.

[@Retrimania]

Arms Warrior has the OG Mortal strike and its struggling atm. Maybe in a worst spot than we are. Giving healing reduction to everyone is NOT a solution. I would like to have our classic Ret burst dmg profile back. Pop wings and spread terror. Blizz make wings great again. Thank you Lvladen! Do you plan trying 4 set next week? Keep the Ret stuff coming! ❤

[@TheMOVEment123]

How you crit so often in war within? As far as I read the talents and spells descriptions, there is not even one of it that increases your crit chance overall. Right ? Thanks !!!

[@Sio91pmw]

When you say something is decent it’s a nice way of saying it’s not good. Ret is a jack of all trades master of none which puts it in a spot where it just doesn’t feel good in any area.

[@LvladenPvP]

Ret specifically does better than other generally better melee like warrior and WW into rogues and feral Druids, but that’s pretty much what is dragging their “bad” ranking to “decent” because of how popular those specs are.

[@Sio91pmw]

@@LvladenPvP very situational, ret still just has an identity issue. Like you said bring back the wings…

[@Sio91pmw]

@@LvladenPvP I’m annoyed enough with ret at the moment that I’m just doing the minimum PvP for my gear and just logging. Been hard stuck 2k and pretty much just gonna wait for 11.5 and if it doesn’t improve the spec I’ll just unsubscribe.

[@armaz83]

Give Ret the old Emancipate Instant remove roots and slows!

[@LocatelliCorinthians]

Bro, do you have any crucial hints/tips for us (retri paladins) against mages and hunters 1vs1 ? I can beat melee easily, but when I face a mage or hunter, its tough :(

[@MaxdeCarvalho853]

actually for me, it looks like templar is a much weaker and less fun version of the stormbringer shaman, I've been playing as a paladin for about 10 years and I feel that the paladin's damage is currently a constant medium low graph, wings are trivialized, they don't represent any danger, the healing is a joke, consuming 3 holy power + 250,000 mana to heal 8-12% of the hp bar... i feel like one of the most tedious moments playing as a paladin, we used to be a burst class, today it's just a trash mob cleaner

[@Alrokako]

All ret need is it's defenses boosted back up

[@Rallpp-e1t]

Yep

[@SpiritGRF]

that's the most important thing we need. Personally 2 other changes pallys need to to see is a freedom that can't be spell stolen by mages for some counter play and give us back some range on hammer of justice 10 yards is just silly when nearly all our kit is at 20-30 yards, we have no reliable slows, and its one of our most important spells for closing out a match.

[@TJl919]

Give us the Tyrael ability from HOTS, like final reckoning but it teleports, that's all I want. There is zero mobility and our healing is nerfed into the ground in pvp. But I agree that wings not being a prio is super refreshing. But yeah, a small damage buff and some mobility would make life a lot less frustrating.

[@shiro2400]

FR being a heroic leap for ret would be so dope

[@momhips7131]

It is a struggle to get the finishing blow in arenas. I have no problem getting people down to 10/20% and getting through defensives but then you just run out of juice for the killing blow. Might be a little op but what if divine toll, when used on someone below 20% casted hammer of wrath instead.

[@Andrew-qq8fb]

is Radiant Glory better since you get more frequent activations of Dawnlights?

[@Szhusma]

It depends on if you want more consistent dmg or more burst. You can set up a bigger burst with the 2 min wings, because you can stack up and actually do a chunky wake of ashes, while with radiant you will not be able to do an ashes that is amplified by wings (unless you can stack up procced wings ofc). But Radiant gives you more overall wings duration and more dawnlight dmg.

[@LvladenPvP]

In general yes.

[@vers1266]

I got rival as ret few days ago, it wasnt that crazy but i did seriously notice my main impact was either cc, off healing or target priority rather than damage. Compared to most classes i faced my burst damage felt extremely lacklustre, had a game with a feral and he bursted down almost the entire team, paladin feels like a jack of all trades but master of none. It just doesnt feel as rewarding to play paladin atm, just that im unnecessarily crippling myself. Im not gonna stop i love ret as a spec, but man blizzard needs to wake tf up 😂

[@Scrilian]

Ret was always nearly dogshit besides burst. Now it doesn't even have that.

[@SuperAp0calypse]

Cataclysm was the death knell of Ret pvp pretty much. Wrath was when it was at least good, if not great. Fuck holy power honestly, we are not a Rogue in plate!

[@angelospata4068]

Ret in wrath was shit in arena , 1h preg was Good

[@shiro2400]

⁠​⁠@@SuperAp0calypse cata ret was ‘fine.’ In the sense that there were good comps u could run because u brought blessing of might to ur squad. WoD was also a good season for ret. I didn’t play during legion so I can speak for that expansion. Ret was decent in BFA, from what little memory I have from that shit expansion. Shadowlands was pretty good for ret, with the necro shield and hammer executing people. All they need to do honestly is revert the nerf they did on ret divine protection or make it the exact same as barkskin for druids. 20% for 10-15 second on a 1 min cd. So that u don’t get absolutely destroyed when u have no shield or divine protection

[@retro3856]

No death coil on average does significantly more damage than TV going from my Paladin to my dk was night and day I felt like my buttons actually did something ontop of insane cleave damage

[@LvladenPvP]

You’re right actually. I forgot about doom burst in that it cleaves and also pops a festering wound.

[@retro3856]

@@LvladenPvPyeah even after the nerf my doom burst hits for like 900k on multi targets and if it’s not up dnd abom limb slow scourge festering strike scourge strike I am popping wounds and melting everyone. Ret is truly lacking rn

[@kaelothsgaming8199]

I played 30 arena matches today on my disc priest with an arms warrior. I don't think arms is that bad.

[@mahlazahpwnage]

Man, Im at 1641 rating rn in 2s and it feels like Im legit hardstuck. Meanwhile I could reliably get 2.1-2.2k in dragonflight as ret (Im not great, but Id like to think at least ok). I have to perfectly coordinate CC with my teammate(s) to create kill windows, otherwise ret has 0 kill opportunities, unless the enemy really fucks up, which feels quite bad.

[@SIIKAP1]

Same here. But it’s like that on any class. I easily got to 2.1k and then stopped playing. Came back now and stuck around 1600

[@mattzavala9456]

I don’t even bother trying to kill a healer in the world or pvp. Can’t out damage them, not even a dent

[@danielsmith2483]

Smash into avatar then roar on arms warrior does sooo much damage its awesome

[@leifurhilmarson3154]

Keep the vids coming!

[@dabndangle]

Templar needs buffed. Harold of the sun is in a way better place

[@kattpuzn]

Herald xD

[@dabndangle]

Who cares i hate it either way. I want templar great again​@kattpuzn

[@kattpuzn]

@@dabndangle I agree with you, brother in light. Pala buffs incoming though - hopeful

[@SuperAp0calypse]

Ret has always struggled in pvp due to no mortal strike or something similar. I remember an anti-MS ability was asked for, but of course it was denied as it would be too powerful and Ret would be mandatory on teams then....Yeah, like those classes with a mortal strike you mean. GG Blizzard *eyeroll*. They really didnt have a clue back then, not sure if they do now (I only just came back after 13 years of not playing), but I stopped pvping around the end of Wrath after all the nerfs and and buffs to the other classes.

[@starblame5482]

i have been playing up in 2000 rating bgs and all the shadow priests and marksmanship hunters all do more damage and outsustain us. its hard to get any abilities off with the cc going on

[@SIIKAP1]

That’s because they shine in BGs… ret shouldn’t be top damage in a BG

[@ARGOS-THOR]

All we need is for blizzard to bring back the bug where we can get 2 (3 if you have good hpower generation) Hammer of Lights off in a burst window.

[@LvladenPvP]

This this this this this!!!

[@fistlxd]

I already quit because ret is terrible, we have no burst at all, no single target dmg, no healing, no mobility and no mortal strike. I got outhealed by pretty much every class in the whole game, hunters sometimes doubled my healing like wtf is this game lmao

[@danielsmith2483]

Your clearly playing it wrong my dude

[@Dawidpaff]

I kind agree on healing part. I can pad healing on blitz or shulfe but it does nothing. I’m around 2.7k exped ret and I have so bad time atm. And I feel really squshi. I’m trying to play warrior now.

[@arifyi.8422]

What’s a mortal strike in wow terms? I know it’s an ability from warrior but what does it mean in this context?

[@walidamjad6688]

​@@arifyi.8422 it mean an ability that reduce healing receved or dealed by the target

[@thomasjackson7609]

@@arifyi.8422 Reduces the target’s healing received.

[@zachyang3816]

I just leveled up my ret….. I don’t feel good about this

[@SSJNeV]

They need to show us some love man, ret is always falling behind compared to other classes in terms of mobility and survivability, they did class rework and they are doing some class talent changes in 11.0.5 but the class itself always falls behind in PvP, we had our burst but they nerfed even that, if they are listening to feedback its time to do some buffs and changes

[@dominicmcgavigan8937]

Very true single target pressure is awful. The self healing is awful in arenas i be spamming all my holypower with wings to heal and my friend on his warrior ends up doing similar healing from his defensives which is a joke. Doing casual BGs now i actually go holy or switch to the enhancement/ ele shaman or my MM Hunter for the damage is great on them with buffs you can 1 shot people fairly well. Rets damage looks good in BGs but its mostly tickle damage from suns avatar rubbing someones pets ass AOE wise i find myself having to try pick up beserker and saltwater potion combo to match a burst of MM or Ele

[@Miridafeo]

So far I'm liking the herald ts build of yours. I feel like I can crank on just about every wake thx to radiant glory. Like you said, we aren't the best, but we are definitely not the worst. If we get a mortal strike one day, look out.

[@igorzamorski4328]

No rets in awc so sad

[@mark883nm]

You have been too much "soft", Ret is a joke in PvP and "ok" in pve but the lack of single target and DMG reduction is showing up also in pve. Fact is, people got so used in 20 years to consider Ret a joke and a ignore/explode/free kill target, so every time Ret is good, the whole community explodes and goes crybaby, not understanding it isn't overpowered, it's just used to be severely underdogs and when we finally are on pair we out skill plus they never had to learn how to deal with us, and blizzard taking away their baby tears it's also a bad act telling the community "hey sorry, here is back your toy to play with". My ONLY solution for that is people should totally quit PvP as Ret making it's % of existence to 0, it's the only way to convince blizz to do something.

[@rickcasual]

Divine shield needs to be immune to dispel. I literally have never had a divine shield run its full course, always instantly dispelled in BG blitz. Prot needs a mega giga buff after what theyve done and how people perceive prot now. I dont see how prot will ever recover without becoming just plain OP. Its the worst possible spec in the game you can even play right now and its the only one i think is fun. I play the game for fun, ive always played prot pally in pvp for fun, it used to be good, now its literally an npc on the BG. Poses zero threat to anyone and gets ragdolled by half the classes in the game.

[@1989B666]

I just swap from ret to holy omg feel like brand new class feel power im sad cant make main my ret for 2s etc but alwyays find the way

[@timothycalkins6105]

Fried, rets are fine and tasting the op line

[@LvladenPvP]

Nah you fried

[@arashnozari4042]

i don't know what to say this time i just wanted to say they should fire that paladin dev and replace him with someone who can fix this class once and for all.

[@LvladenPvP]

No definitely not. The Paladin devs have done insanely well for Ret the past 2 xpacs. Just because Ret is mildly weaker right now doesn’t warrant calling for people’s firing lol. They also probably don’t specifically have one dev that does just one class. If anything they need to hire more QA employees so they have to worry about less bugs and more design.

[@arashnozari4042]

@@LvladenPvP look at some point some one in that god damn dev team should be able to fix this class. with every big update they are keep removing -adding- reworking ret and yet its garbage. we both love ret and played it for years and thats the only reason that we play it no matter how bad it is but lets be honest at some point it should have something to say even for hardcore fans like me and you.

[@Donkne]

Ret is trash right now, I hope Blizzard listens to the feedback so we can have fun too

[@CoralsAndMoreAquatics]

I hate fighting pallys I’m a blood death knight.

[@Yuouji]

Ret honestly isn't bad, it just feels really bad into the super unkillable specs "which are all S tier right now". I don't think it needs a single target damage buff, but maybe a bit of a burst buff. I'd want them to unnerf wings/ crusade, but with how much wings uptime you currently have with radiant glory I don't think that's really probable, "they should however buff normal wings back to at least 15% though". Final reck would be a much safer option to buff, I think it should either be unnerfed or maybe even buffed to 50% that way we'd actually have a pretty scary 1 minute go that isn't just random 1 shot damage like SL ret. The biggest thing though is they probably can't just buff tv damage to try and improve burst cuz that would make ret consistent damage significantly stronger which could get out of hand. Consistently ret is completely fine, it's just burst where it feels weak damage wise. Defensively it's kinda awkward, if we we're back to our normal glass cannon playstyle that we've had every xpac outside of DF it would be fine. But having our damage be so based around consistent pressure it's pretty bad. Best thing they can do to mitigate that is probably buff wog, but I'd prefer just an all around playstyle change to how ret used to be. If they wanted to force a playstyle change they'd probably have to giga buff temaplar by either going back to how it was before they "fixed it" where you could spam hammer of light, or just buffing hammer of light damage by at least 2x aswel as buffing final reck along with a normal wings unnerf. But they also can't buff it too hard or we'll be back to radiant decree ret paly gameplay which was one of the most toxic versions of the spec imo.

[@LvladenPvP]

Pretty much agree with everything here. Final reck is realistically the safest way they can buff us without having the hero talents go out of control. I do think there is room for final verdict to go up a bit though. Our healing is a bit better on the PTR. 10% buff and the 15% divine protection healing buff feel pretty nice. I hope they can find a way to make Templar feel like it did when it had that 12 sec window. I didn’t even think that made it significantly better than herald when they broke it.

[@cloudyskyyy100]

Ret is terrible what you mean it's not?

[@leeroyjenkins6103]

The problem with Eternal flame is you give up offense to use it "same with enhance using maelstrom stacks". Notice all the good specs get healing at no cost. You've discovered why the idea of serious WoW PvP is a joke, blizzard have specific knobs to tune PvP and refuse to use them. If you want to be good play one of the pet classes Priest, Rogue or Mage.

[@donquixotedoflamingo373]

When you make this videos, does blizzard ever listen? we kinda need those buffs that you were talking about, but nothing changes

[@Pallehz]

I disagree, i believe Legion, ret had ridiculous sustain and burst especially with Crusade and stacking it with hammer of reckoning. We had 45/45 haste/damage for 42 straight seconds on a 2 min cd in addition to being able to hit 1.5m+ verdicts without wings and being able to get full stacks in just a few globals especially when hitting JV which took 5 hpback then

[@Pallehz]

I recommend a 30-35% increase on FV, 1000% increase on eternal healing hot. 18k is a joke, 150% increase on DP, Bubble should be undispellable like turtle, evasion, netherwalk, evasion/cloak. Buff avenging wrath:might by 150%, crusade should be stackable to 20 and last 35 seconds, long arm of the law should be baseline, the judge sprint from cata... OR just give ret a 35% ms on verdict hits.

[@TheHalbhas]

my honest opinion for what the concept is Herald should stay like this and they should rework complitely Templar considering its a burst build more suitable for Ret paladin play style. xpecially in pvp if they change something, ofc surv is a joke as templar and ur burst windows is a total joke atm but the concept is totally fine and they should work starting from there. My humble Opinion

[@LvladenPvP]

Yeah I agree. I don’t think Templar needs a huge rework but definitely something needs an improvement.

[@TheHalbhas]

@@LvladenPvP i do think yes honestly, tryed several times in both rbg or arena and well healing r non existant, dmg outside of ur hammer r laughable, dmg reduction by sacrosanct crusade its annihilated by any decent dmg focus on you or dots so basicly u dont even notice that while ur getting raped. And to be honest i only see Herald Ret around in both pvp and pve, i got 4x lvl 80 ret paladins cause i wanted to play templar aswell but in the end u must reroll Herald to make any competitive content at an average level not even high end. Herald got insane sustained, in pve its not even comaprable to templar, in pvp herald its another lvl even if Herald still need buffs. Btw the most important thing that speaks by itself is that u dont see any templar around and ofc there r more then 1 or 2 reason behind that.

[@7755fgh]

Dh hasn’t really got much love either

[@tamasnyesev1164]

Ret is a joke now. So many snares stuns in the game and what we have is a dispellebe freedom that even helps enemy if a mage steals it for example. Hunters have like 60 yard range now better selfheal ect. Ret is wherchaired again. And i bet they will nerf it even more for no reason

[@shiro2400]

Dispellable stun as well, mind u 🤣

[@derrickhead]

man i got banned for life in a regular battle ground for saying noobing and asking a mf to use hero to help the team out f wow lol im say my account was hacked if that dont work n i cant get it back by end of season i guess im done for life

[@LvladenPvP]

Dang man, I hope you get your account back!

[@goldshire6795]

Do 3s pls

[@BatGero]

This is not a warrior u cant expect to go in and just delete people. Am playing an ENH shaman and am pretty happy with this class and i think retri is a lot similar,we are support classes not warriors. I just dont have the same survivability as a paladin i have 1 defensive totem every 3 minutes 1 "hand of freedom" every 1 minute, i dont have bubble LOH .... i mean LOH in arenas i just absurd...

[@SilentOne-111]

The only way to play ret currently is to run and sit down and eat to heal cause you cant even heal 20% before being out of mana not being able to even cast a judgement. The only chance you have of out healing "any" dmg is with wings up.

[@robusmc1713]

Then Need to Super Super Buff Final Verdict, It hits like a Marshmallow it makes No sense and they Need to unNerf wings, 10% is a joke

[@LLLAAAPPP]

I would really disagree with you here. Ret is not really good compared to the other things. This isn’t from a casual perspective either. Hit glad 3/4 seasons in DF and I can say I genuinely detest where the class is at now. Damage and everything else aside the new playstyle just sucks and it’s not fun. I’m really not enjoying it.

[@pedropushnjik]

I dunno man, when i press wake of ashes and wings pop, people just melt. I am every SS round top dmg by far.. tho i havent played a lot and around 1600 rating atm. So it might be that im just fighting lowbies but still it feels good for now, except for TV.. I agree about the rest.

[@davibitencourt9816]

thats because ret has good consistent dmg, especially in aoe, so with so many classes ganging you with pets, our damage charts go big, but in reality the single target kill pressure is bad because the burst damage is low and can hardly not be outhealed

[@oscarfagerhov8756]

Just a bloat of buttons that feel Meh

[@Jay188-N]

I want $1,000,000

[@tyloho158]

so how do we even go about getting blizzard to hear any of this feedback? divine steed is gonna have 4 talents because blizzard is bent on trying to make this ugly looking ability useable, while dks just get all of that in 1. and thats just 1 ability in the roster of undertuned, unfun buttons to press as a ret. granted i think ret feels great to play in pve, as long as u dont look at tier lists. but this has been the 3rd expansion in a row that paladin is just lame as hell in pvp

[@jkotarsky]

I'm about to quit the game again. again. again. because of nerfs. I don't know why I keep coming back. I am like the "cooler" they used to have in casinos. If you are winning bring in the cooler. If I find a class and start getting good at it, rest assured... they are nerfing it. So what class do you want me to play. Hunter? I say hunter and rogue, they need some nerfs.

[@HFOBF3]

As a ret main sience MOP and been playing pve and pvp in everbad season it has had i just find it worse and worse for ever season wings is just what ever selfhealing is like what self healing vs ever other class i just dont like it anymore you dont have the burst and you dont have a mortalstrike effect it is just fells shit if you ask me. deffends CDS are shit bop and bubbel will just get dispel with in 0.2 sec it got almost no value anymore... i used to love ret paladin so much now i just hate it...

[@jasonuliano2715]

Its such a shame man. SL Ret pally was so good its ruined every version since for me. Even 10.0.7 because we were just stupidly OP and everyone played it. SL we were good but we had weaknesses it was perfect. I feel like we literally are just a passive class. We do decent dam regardless of how we play and are at the beckon call of our healer. We cant make plays anymore, unless you do something like kick the healer, into a full hoj, into a blind. We are an immobile melee with a dispellable stun, very little on demand kill pressure and no MS. No more HOJing people behind the pillar and killing them in 3 globals with no trinket. A great player will get glad with the class but it’s certainly not fun to play IMO.

[@LvladenPvP]

As much as a didn’t like SL as an xpac Ret was definitely very good/ fun during it.

[@dmitryndk]

dude ret is legit the worst. poor dmg and 0 survivability compared to all meta specs.

[@DH-mp6fg]

Ret pally sucks in pvp

[@iliketohelp8336]

your dmg numbers are WAYYY to big. how can u play like that.

[@xMaceirl]

Unholy dk has been bad for 2 years, cmon you can survive to this 😂