The Latest Prydwen Tier List for Honkai Star Rail is WILD

[@xulek4755]

are we doing these comparisons with max traces in mind?

[@josephoyek6574]

Only the basic attack.

[@satoshi_nt.2]

sadly your brain traces aren't maxed out!

[@xulek4755]

@@satoshi_nt.2 sadly for me those cap at level 1

[@tribopower]

Nah bruh, everything above 8 is unnecessary

[@satoshi_nt.2]

@@xulek4755 omg really?

[@Gilaboyful]

Clara jumped up in tier because she has her traces maxed

[@w.mystik]

😂😂

[@gamearo4955]

Lol😂

[@satoshi_nt.2]

unfortunately your brain traces aren't maxed out !

[@lol-ji2ni]

@@satoshi_nt.2 most sane iyo defender:

[@satoshi_nt.2]

@@lol-ji2ni sry my views doesn't align with yours ig!

[@lionmask3630]

how did blud not know break dmg is not buffed by dmg percent buffs, bruh

[@MrPimentel12]

Guidemaker btw

[@nicholasbinsar1673]

don't expect anything on guidemaker who doesn't even max their traces even when 5k is on the line

[@theolailheugue9402]

​@@nicholasbinsar1673 he don t even max his lightcones and lvl

[@QashmalB]

Negative edged hinself into that thought

[@breadskiiyeetusdefeatus]

whats the point of being a guidemaker if the audience has better understanding of such simple game T_T

[@KirigayaHayato]

Comparing Acheron and Fei is like comparing a car with a boat. One can be better depending on the situation. both t0 comfortably in my opinion.

[@Morkins324]

What about Yunli boatcar?

[@Tam-lv1mp]

Yunli is a plane

[@ahejleira5654]

They are both DPS. Why wouldn't you be able to compare two dps characters? Literally can't understand this way of thinking.

[@TOSHI00489]

@@ahejleira5654your reading comprehension is sinking into earths core

[@asylum8138]

@@ahejleira5654 they are both dps' that do two DIFFERENT things.

[@tobalitos23]

I dont like that units are tested at lvl 8. Not all lvl 8 are built the same. RM gets 50% break efficiency at lvl 1 and other stats scale. Robin's skills scale entirely through skill ups. For some units testing lvl 8 just gives them an advantage.

[@tobalitos23]

Until then, I can never take Prydwen list seriously.

[@nam6282]

You’re right. Lvl 10 skills doesn’t even cost money, so there is no reason to compare them at Lvl 8

[@NightMareVent]

Apart from that wich is absolutely idiotic, i won't comment on it more than that. Also, why are still stuck with this E0S0 idea? I can understand supports since none really need their LC but DPSs? Prydwen BADLY needs to re-evaluate their whole tier list system to be more realistic. Only casuals stick with that low of an investment and those same players don't even know what a tier list is.

[@generalsaverngild]

Make your own tier list lol. Anyways, everyone should have at least have 8 characters maxed out (with some traces unleveled like basic for Jingliu lol). You get more than 16+ golden balls from start to finish of story anyways.

[@tobalitos23]

@@generalsaverngild a little aggro, just staing a big problem with the tier list. Don't care to make my own.

[@xeali1]

the only major difference between an acheron team and feixiao team is there’s no character apart from jq that can properly support her

[@AngelOnerom]

That's on Acheron. Her kit is extremely restrictive.

[@keneunaegbu851]

Sounds like an Acheron problem.

[@ItsWoop]

If you already have Blackswan, then getting her E1 basically turns her into a second JQ lol.

[@NightMareVent]

​@@AngelOnerom lol what? Her kit is the most complete out of all DPSs. If we didn't have a thousand FUA units Feixiao could use, you'd be saying the same thing about her... "oh that's on her being dependent on FUAs!" Acheron dosen't have a proper team and still is top 3, even with this rotation FUA buff

[@j3kwe]

Agreed ​@@NightMareVentAgreed.

[@dr.strange1300]

I've hit so many vertical investments that these tier lists are always just hilarious to look at lmao 😂 love the vid brotha. I got some weird takes though ill come back to comment

[@Delkagu]

On god Saving up for vertical invests feel better at this point, the tierlists are just unrelatable to look at lmao

[@KirigayaHayato]

​@@Delkagu same, the game isn't even that hard so I just got e2ff and e2s1 acheron and saved all my pulls until maybe a summon meta , 870 pulls and counting. Won't pull until 2.7 probably. Is it boring a bit? yeah but us better investment in my view

[@literallyjiaoqiu]

saying jiaoqiu only works for acheron atm is CRAZY. ratio, yunli and even feixiao or argenti are good with him (besides dot ofc)

[@seunabe4612]

Jiaoqiu has the average fastest clears across both NA and CN and is great with literally all 4 of the top 4 characters (and hot take but bis for both acheron AND yunli imo) in the damage dealers section, if that’s not .5 worthy idk what is fr!

[@literallyjiaoqiu]

hes also better than topaz for ratio, theres a few videos abt it on yt ppl think hes only bis for acheron but clearly didnt check any showcases

[@literallyjiaoqiu]

besides, hes probably the most universal of supports. he works in probably any team composition you slot him in, be it dot, fua, crit or even break.

[@misora25chan]

Acheron needed a Harmony and Sustain unit that synergizes with her in general. Feixiao only needed Robin to get going while you can sub out Topaz and Aventurine for someone else.

[@raisylvaine8398]

@@misora25chan I’ve been running Hunt March and Gallagher since I don’t have Topaz or Adventurine and it’s doing pretty well! Tbh, if I can get Adventurine I’m gonna gun for him, but I’m not hurting too badly for not having him.

[@kuvjason7236]

Haven't seen the whole video so if im regurgitating things you've said in the video. I apologize ... but ... Fie is definitely at the apex T0. Acheron is more like a T0.25 .. Acheron doesn't have a full premium team comp comparable to Fie's premium options... Fie has Topaz, Robin, Adventurine all of whom benefits whenever ANYONE does a FUA. Acheron just has Jiaoqiu who accelerates the stacks and increasing ulti damage.. the other slot is occupied by another nihility who isn't Kafka(DPS), Swan(DPS), SW(Weakness app unnecessary), and Welt(jack of all trades) because all are, imo, wasted on Acheron team, which leaves you with Pela, Gui and/or Sampo, who are still good but aren't 5* amazing and can only do soo much as 4*s and lastly, a flex pick for whatever you need. Given as time goes... there's sure to be a premium nihility shielder/healer whom both DoT and Acheron can take advantage of to climb the ladder again. I have the Undertaker and AJ styles meme ready when Nihility path gets new support

[@theolailheugue9402]

Also Acheron without healer have comparable clear to the best Feixiao team with Acheron Pela JQ Sparkle.

[@balzo_benevolo]

We will never get a Nihility sustain. And you wanna know how I know that? Pre-release Jiaoqiu had heals in his kit and then they got removed. Clearly HoYoVerse wants you to spend money for that E2 Acheron. If my guess is correct, Acheron basically reached her ceiling and she won't get much better in the future.

[@Hiro016]

Saying a character still lacks a non-sustain path sustain is WILD.

[@generalsaverngild]

The difference between Feixiao & Acheron is that Fei is Single-Target, while Acheron is AoE. She requires her Signature Lightcone to get 2 stacks like Feixiao. It doesn't matter though since Feixiao requires 2 hits to get 1 stack. Both work quite well with others, and their playstyles are noticeably similar. They rely on other characters to speed up their ULTs. They have significant boosts in damage with their major traces so they are definitely built similarly. You can say that there's sure to be a premium Nihility shielder/healer but we haven't gotten an HP scaling support for Blade lmao. It's not gonna happen unless Acheron can no longer out DPS the enemy elite's HP pool. Therefore, requiring sustainability. It's the same with Jing Yuan as well. We can't make LL go twice in one turn or have a character that can trigger others' FuAs.

[@rysonlee8556]

An apology in an iyo comment section? Someone could never...

[@shotgunshogun4707]

TLDR; Prydwin needs to simply acknowledge that eidolons and LCs exist in the game... and that some characters are significantly better with these elements included. And that even f2p players can and DO, in fact, pull on them. And they gotta start doing some actual testing (aintnowy they do with these placements). SW with E1 is t0.5 no question...u have 1 turn ults if u skill and 2 turns if u basic. U have the 2 main elites with about 70% def down and 33% total res down to the element u implant. That's a metric fk tonn of dmg amp to ALL dmg archtypes rivaling the top tiers easily, and she'd no longer have energy issues. All it takes is one eidolon. Topaz is incomplete as a supportive dps without S1 and is on par with Harmony units with E1 included. JY, JL , and DHIL are all way worse without their sig. E2 welt is on par with e0s1 ratio and DHIL as a main imaginary dps and shits on both in pure fiction with the right set up and can even run superbreak. E2 dhil is T0.5 if not t0 performance and dmg output. Kafka is incomplete without her sig cause her sig enables her to apply and extra separate dot multiplier (so the dot set fully functions with just one more dot unit instead of needing 2 other dots) and increase her speed by an entire boot's worth in order to trigger more consistently. Those are just some examples of units that a lot of people vertically invested in (some not by choice aka standard 5 stars), and it paid off. Even 4 star gacha LCs are not included if I'm not mistaken. Prydwin NEEDS to redo their whole set of criteria, OR the better option is simply... Have separate tier lists based on investment... They already have data unit performances with different eidolons and LCs...use that data? this flavor of the month shit gotta stop...do sum proper testing so people who seek ur info don't get fked over.

[@literallyjiaoqiu]

if topaz is 0.5, jiaoqiu should be 0.5 too

[@kendlekeierleber9802]

Ngl Acheron and fexiao in my opinion are incredible I’m different situations. I don’t believe one is better than the other in full transparency.

[@theolailheugue9402]

And acheron still missing 2 5 stars supports when feixiao have already her full premium team.

[@ImNot5YearsOld]

I could say a lot in this comment. But pulling Houhou after 7 months of using Bailu and Gepard... has completely changed my accounts ability to clear content.

[@dropshock284]

JQ is legitimately such a good support for Acheron (and Yunli) that I really don’t see how Acheron moves off of T0, even at e0s0. She herself is just that strong. Personally still surprised that JL and DHIL are still T1. I think 1.5 at this point makes sense, with Seele. Overall though, I do think the criteria is in need of adjustment. I think a lot of these placements don’t make much sense considering their no LC/lvl 8 talent criteria.

[@Kaien-qf6cr]

I think everybody who talk about tier list have to read the calculation section in every DPS char page, there have a char stat that prydwen use in simulation (of course they use low to medium investment). So we dont have to argue about DPS placements who need super high investment in low to medium investment tier ist

[@ahlemlora1452]

I was agreeing with everything you said but I gotta point out that your heart on for Seele is making you contradict your own words : First you say "Jingliu is T1 and not higher because, even tho giving her sparkle and Robin or Ruanmei makes her do T0 damage, the T0 characters will do even more damage if they'r given those supports" Then you'r like "Seele deserves to be higher than T1.5 because giving her Sparkle or Robin makes her do T0 damage" The same rules that you applied to Jingliu should be applied to Seele and the fact of things is, she can't even one shot some mobs in Moc to proc her resurgence if you don't give her 5 star supports. You also pointed out that Jingyuan isn't as strong as the others because he takes more effort to achieve the same result as higher tier dpses, but you also went on about how Seele deserving a higher tier despite you admitting she needs you to have excessive knowledge, she needs you to have speed tuning, she needs eagle set...that also sounds like a lot of effort to achieve the same results as higher ranked dpses than her too; so you can't use the same phrase to justify one character being low ranked and then pretend like a character that needs the same type of effort should be higher ranked. I get that liking a character makes you want to defend them and try to prove their worth but we all have 1.X characters that we like that got overshadowed by this point and we gotta accept it. The Clara thing tho, I 100% agree with you, Clara didn't get anything new nor any buff that would take her go up in the tierlist, Robin always existed, Topaz always existed, Moze is a sidegrade of Topaz, Feixiao doesn't give anything to Clara, we didn't get any relic set that increases her damage, Clara isn't any different from before so there's no reason for her to go up the tier except them being blinded by Yunli and assuming Clara ain't that different despite that they are multiple tiers apart in terms of damage I also agree with you on every other character ranking I also agree on the "what the heck is a specialist" point lol For example, if Topaz, Moze and March are specialists because they'r follow-up, shouldn't Feixiao, Ratio, Yunli and Clara also be specialists ?

[@Yoru...]

The difference is, when jingliu has tier 0 supports, the other dps above her with the same supports outperforms her. Whereas seele with those supports performs ON PAR with them

[@maikcampbell]

It is in fact follow up being slept on that has brought Clara up, but the difference between Clara and Seele/Jing Liu is that not only was the playstyle slept on but she benefits from WAYYYY more of the stronger units than the rest of the 1.0 and lower characters (except Jing yuan but he has just other issues). Clara has been getting directly buffed since Luocha release almost patch after patch but people just didn’t understand her power. Even before Robin she cleared her real dmg threshold hurdle of not having perma ult uptime but people still slept on her. Now that Robin and Aventurine are also out AND people are revisiting counter playstyle I think her being tier 1 as a F2P early access unit (even outside of eidolons) makes complete sense.

[@pieman2025]

30:40 im so glad CC's are finally opening up to boothill being better than FF only took a few months, simply just a hard unit to use. personally I dont value "ease of use" when placing a unit in a tier but I can see prydwen is and it makes sense when i see FF still in T0. It only took for the puppets to leave moc for people to wake up. Not saying FF is a bad unit because she isn't, but she is the easiest unit to pilot in the game but in exchange for that you have NO versatility in unit selection.

[@imfalling4433]

Versatility? my Boothill is literally stuck with my Bronya and Ruan Mei to get the best results, best in slot is best in slot you may have other options but why would you if it's worse, also speed tuning while getting some CRIT stats for Boothill team is a pain to build while I can just build firefly with low investment to get the same results, currently though boothill is better in the current MOC cause aventurine is perfect for him just like the puppets for firefly

[@pieman2025]

@imfalling4433 it seems you speak from a place of ignorance. And that's ok. Superbreak boot is not to far behind bronya boot. You can even run superbreak boot with hunt march replacing Ruan mei. You can go bronya and hunt march. You can go pela and Luka. All with results not too far from each other, however they just become more difficult to pilot. However boot bronya ruanmei is "easy" comp to run, but his easiest is superbreak boot due to bronya sp unfriendlyness. Explore with your boot more and you will be shocked what you can achieve!

[@AristineSilvanus]

​@@pieman2025super break Boothill is situational and mostly underperforming compared to Bronya RM what are u on about

[@pieman2025]

@HSRFirefly stats says otherwise you can check Prydwen analytics. Also how is it a bad thing that a unit situationally has a better team than their bis? His top performing team is strong but when it comes to 0 cycles, they all can do it. apoc shadow is where you will see a difference in performance since it's action value based rather than cycle base. All I'm saying is comparing one team wonder to boothill is not close when with the variety of units he can perform well with. If you don't believe my words you can go to r/boothillmains and they will just say the same thing I'm saying.

[@27Ganon]

​​@@AristineSilvanusthis is not true at all, both have consistently 0 cycled every MoC since release with roughly the same amount of cost Super break Boothill 0 cycles Hoolay as cheap or cheaper than the Bronya comp

[@izumolee6714]

Going to say this right now, so many are sleeping on Lingsha the same way people slept on Huohuo back in the day. Hearing the exact same rhetoric when others are talking about Lingsha. We have Gallagher, you don't need Lingsha. I remember when Huohuo was announced the same happened with her, we had Fu Xuan & Luocha at that point, you don't need Huohuo if you had either of those two. Fast forward & Huohuo has surpassed both of them as sustainers. People are not going to see Lingsha's worth until they miss out on her & we see how she is going to perform. That brief moment when we could use Lingsha in the event was a taste of what she can do, it was a lot of fun using her not going to lie. I could be wrong about her but i just have a feeling she's being underappreciated.

[@uni3573]

Its interesting to hear what's happening with the meta side of the game

[@Tukanoh]

If you cank rank a character like Firefly highly because of ease-of-damage, then you have to also rate a character like Seele low due to difficulty.

[@Iyoverse]

@@Tukanoh Then why is Boothill up there? Genuine question.

[@Mystra]

Easy of use should never be relevant in my own opinion. Feel free to disagree, I just think that that is on the players. Similar to how I wouldn't rank a weapon that's harder to use in Elden Ring lower, even though it does the same or better as another weapon. Idk is that the player fault or the weapon? Sure, maybe it's tricky. But you can learn it.

[@27Ganon]

​​@@Iyoversebecause Boothill is a lot easier to use than Seele, which should tell you how impossibly difficult it is to approach Seele's ceiling nowadays. There's a reason Seele's nowhere close to getting the cheapest 0 cycles anymore, even if she was 6 months ago. And in average data with no eidolons on anyone, Seele's arguably the worst performing limited DPS.

[@kemystery8896]

Ease of use shouldn't be a factor unless its a beginner tier list. Pretty sure its a general tier list which assumes everyone has average to above game knowledge. And in-depth knowledge of their main team/archetype. So performance should be the only metric (Whether its Dmg, utility, sustain, hax etc)

[@orion615]

​@@IyoverseBecause the difference in damage is simply night and day.

[@afish4583]

I’m a jing yuan truther, but I think his rank feels appropriate. I think his best team doesn’t need that high investment tbh just Robin and tingyun, but his main source of damage is just too slow these days. When we get a summon advance he will rise again. He actually is doing rlly well for me on both sides of AS rn

[@rust5427]

Acheron will go up in the next world, more nihility units, maybe we can even have like bridge unit? A nihility follow up perhaps, whenever an ally does a follow up it applies debuff, when an ally does debuff it does follow up.

[@ivanap1846]

That whole "why the IRS team is hard to build" bit made me quit the video. My guy contradicted himself like 5 times and said nothing in the end.

[@lkl436]

I mean we got to take into consideration that FX and other FUA DPS have a ton of supports that can buff up their damage unlike Acheron who only has JQ who can support her properly

[@mxkimxschxin]

Bro can they please boost Sushang up already, I have her maxed with Swordplay and she’s amazing 😭

[@lionmask3630]

@@mxkimxschxin now try any other dps after her, you will feel a difference.

[@mxkimxschxin]

@@lionmask3630 I have Feixiao AND Acheron, she’s no where near their tier but I just feel tier 4 is too low

[@lionmask3630]

@@mxkimxschxin sure sushang is usable, but u have to look into the finer details when making tiers and arranging chars, I have my own fair share of disagreements with the tierlist but overall I think it's fine. Also, don't just compare DPS, compare if you recommend pulling that character and farming for them, I don't think u would recommend to farm for sushang right?

[@mxkimxschxin]

@@lionmask3630 oh course I would, I’m a ride or die (I’m joking, I honestly just think she’s an underrated f2p option, deals good damage with HMC that’s free and swordplay is pretty easy to obtain)

[@LetMeCookBro69]

@@mxkimxschxin bro said sushang lmfao ggs bro this ganenaint for you

[@XenonDante]

The only problem I honestly have with this Prydwen tier list is I don't understand the methodology behind not evaluating characters using vertical investment. When characters like Topaz which I would agree T0.5 if given her alotted vertical investment, which means she's not borderline anti synergistic with characters like Ratio. RRAT is not a real team without vertical investment. I guarantee more than 51% of Acheron's have S1 meaning the Acheron Prydwen is evaluating is a completely different from a larger some of the playerbase. The argument of new character vs pulling S1 doesn't really work when a large sum of the online community who engages with said content do consider vertical investment. Especially now characters are getting second re-runs. Any half serious person who wants to play FUA probably pulled Topaz in 2.2 and now getting higher levels of investment this patch alongside Robin. And since 2.6 only has 1 new 5-star, that mean phase 2 is going to be re-runs only. I wish Prydwen respected vertical investment even to just E1 or S1. Or match investment to the number of re-runs a character has.

[@Biohacker777]

I would rather not, i prefer e0s0 standardisation, if they want to make vertical tierlist then they should make a new one, but i think it's too hard or pointless Where should the verticality stop, e1s1, e2s1, e6r1, or e6s5, they would have to count all possible of the teammates verticality too, theres too many variables, and nobody should cares when talking e6r5 tierlist, when someone go for e6r5 pulls they don't need a tierlist

[@thigarette]

RRAT absolutely is a real team without any vertical investment, you absolutely don't need s1 for either topaz or ratio, topaz s1 improves the damage immensely but to say the team isn't "real" without them is just wrong

[@michaelpowers6551]

Nope, e0s0 is fine.

[@XenonDante]

@Biohacker777 Simple allocate vertical investment equal to the number of re-runs a character has. So, for example, Topaz released in 1.4, she should be evaluated based on E0S0. Her first re-run was in 2.2, so assuming the number of pulls per patch with the exception of 2.1 is the same, which I believe Mr. Pokke calculated around 94 pulls for phase 1 of a patch and around 24 for phase 2. That is 1 pull opportunity for f2p players. After 2.2 Topaz would be evaluated at E1S0 or E0S1 to represent the pull opportunities for f2p players. Topaz is now getting her second re-run in 2.5 again, assuming the number of pulls per patch is the same, 2.5 is a second pull opportunity for f2p players. So, with the system of tying vertical investment to the number of re-runs Topaz would be evaluated at the next most valuable vertical investment point, which would be E1S1 because her E2 sucks. When characters receive their 7th re-run, which is a total of 8 pull opportunities given to players' this is when a character should be evaluated at E6S1.

[@XenonDante]

This system obviously favors popular characters because they are going to re-run more often, but hey, the characters are popular for a reason. People want them and want to use them. Popular characters are the most likely characters to be vertically investmented into.

[@natepogger2994]

They should add an awakening system for old characters just like how dragon ball Legends and seven deadly sins grand cross.

[@brianpark2564]

Imma put this out there, Jade e1 + feixiao is a crazy team, like topaz

[@literallyjiaoqiu]

based

[@nicholas549]

Actually from what i know jiaoqiu is not bad with feixiao because he buffs ults, feixiao with robin and jiaoqiu deals more damage than with topaz in the single istance the point is that topaz feixiao is faster in charging up the ult so she is still better

[@Wingedlight-nn4hl]

Jade might get a boost in her rating when Lingsha comes out cuz she can be the sustain and is also one of the best Debt Collectors for Jade from videos I’ve seen since summons work with her buff so you could have a main team with Jade, Robin (or Sparkle/Ruan Mei if you don’t have her), Lingsha and then fill in the gap with someone like Pela, Jiaoqiu, Tingyun, or even Aventurine if you wanna double down on bulk. I think what Hoyo is trying to do is so that AOE follow up attack characters are better since they have been looked down upon when compared to the single target ones as of late.

[@NoName-sh5xe]

Yunli I love using her LC. She and Clara got me through my first 7 of the new SU.

[@rereo599]

I think jiaoqui is also very decent for any dps relying on their ult, talk argenti for example, it is just that there are not that many of those dps for now, he alongside the 5 atar variations of tinyuan's 4* kit and any energy wanting dps will skyrocket imo, waiting for that day, so my Argenti will be a bit more appreciated (no offense to anyone❤) , i have a soft spot for him, my first character who can deal 100k + 😊, also his persona is amazing haha (still sad for the voice tho 😢but got used to the new, even though it just doesn't feel the same ) P. S check the replies

[@rereo599]

P. S : I wanna add that jiaoqui can jump to t0 first just because of the 3 top dps. FF and Fei are up there with their dedicated supports - ruan mei and robin, and jiaoqui as the dedicated support for the 3rd big one, he should be there with her. Also I believe jiaoqui is as versatile as mei and robin, anyone can use his debuffs, I am sure even break will benefit from def reduction and vulnerability, not to mention he can be extremely sp positive and will farm sp for any sp hungry dps

[@literallyjiaoqiu]

tbh if topaz is 0.5, jiaoqiu should too. bcs theyre both bis for a t0 and both of their other best team feature ratio (in fact, theres showcases showing ratio fua is BETTER with jiaoqiu) besides, hes a much more versatile unit than topaz, shes as niche as it gets

[@sp-exos3517]

They need to go ahead and switch FF and Boothill

[@seunabe4612]

The difference between Boothill and Seele is Boothill is ACTUALLY a skill diff, Seele is an investment diff, so changes to Boothill's placement have no bearing on Seele's placement whatsoever

[@ahejleira5654]

What investment do you need with Seele?

[@seunabe4612]

@@ahejleira5654 More than you need for all the characters above her to accomplish what they do on average in all their respective best teams, which is and has always been the point of contention with her

[@imfalling4433]

@@seunabe4612 it does not take skill to use Boothill lol just gain stacks and learn who the best target is to break, same with Seele you need to target a enemy you can kill to activate resurgence in fact she's even harder to use than Boothill

[@seunabe4612]

​@@imfalling4433 I'm not saying it as a means of "you need an iq of 3000 to use this character" i mean it as people literally do not understand how to use Boothill effectively, like for instance, Boothill does not at all need super break in moc but people will run the super break team with him as if he's Firefly when you can get infinitely more out of running a bronya, that sort of thing. Seele is not a difficult character to pilot in the slightest, target mob, gain resurgence, target someone else, the cycle continues. Seele's issue isn't the fact that she's hard in any capacity, it's that in this day and age the average player with average stats' Seele CANNOT effectively one shot any and every mob, and every turn that Seele cannot proc her resurgence is practically wasted, and her tier reflects that fact in comparison to those above her

[@pooyayaddasht2419]

Yup, pretty much!

[@EddieBlake215]

So on the whole Acheron vs Feixiao debate, I feel like Acheron is still stronger just because of how many limited characters you need to make Feixiao work at 100%. So Feixiao needs, Robin, Aventurine, and Topaz, if you switch Topaz for March Hunt, the dmg will drop a little, if you swap Aventurine with Gallagher, the dmg will drop quite noticeably and if you end up dropping Robin for Moze, the dmg drops again, considerably. So if you do an F2P friendly team for Feixiao she will probably do around half as much damage as she would do with her ART team. Acheron on the other hand, if you run her with Pela, Gui, and Gallagher she still is at almost full power, sure, if you had Jiaoqiu then her dmg increases by at least 20%, but that's one limited character vs Feixiao's 3 limited characters. From this PoV, Acheron is still stronger; and honestly isn't this what the Pryden tier list should show? Which are the strongest characters with the least investment? If a character needs 3 more Limited characters to be at 100%, then why not label characters at E6S5? For me, the Prydwen tier list shows the tier of the characters for the F2P/Low Spenders, and these guys won't have all the characters required to make a full 5-star limited team for every character out there. Another thing that always bothered me, is the whole discourse around Robin being super strong! She's not, she's strong for the people who spend a lot of time speed-tuning their characters and farming the hell out of caverns to get all the proper stats, she's strong for people who want to do 0 cycle MoC. For the average player? She's not as strong as Ruan Mei, because for Ruan Mei you don't need to do as much speed tuning, you just pop her in a team and your team will do a lot more damage. An inexperienced player or someone who just started playing HSR, or simply someone who doesn't keep up to date will all the builds will mess up Robin's ult and won't make use of her kit properly. Ruan Mei is much cozier for the more casual players and let's be honest here if you take a look at people posting their builds on the Hoyolab app, you will see that there are a lot more casual players than players who know what they are doing; the basic thing that players that know what they are doing do in HSR is SPD tuning, if you look at the community you will see that only a small percentage of the players do SPD tuning... So, these two examples are what make the Prydwen list confusing for me a lot of times, as a low spender myself (I probably spent less than $20, and I've played since one month after launch), I don't have all the 5-star characters and I barely have 3 Sig LCs (Acheron, Topaz, and Kafka), so when I hear people saying, omg Feixiao is like the best DPS now and has power crept Acheron I feel lost, because this discourse takes into account using Topaz, Robin, and Aventurine with her, I don't have Aventurine for one, so I might end up having to use Luocha in that team if I need Gallagher in the other leg of PF, MoC or AS... so her performance drops, not by much, but by enough to make it visible that Acheron is still performing strong with Pela, Gallagher and Black Swan... RANT OVER! However, I'm curious, am I really that bad at the game to come to these conclusions or nobody is looking at the game from this perspective...

[@davidfrost5995]

Low-key my Acheron hasn't hit a million damage in a long while

[@rereo599]

I will say only one thing, fei is absolute powerhouse on the Acheron level, she is as game changing as Acheron is, i have never been completely clearing my late game content , but after i got fei i have everything full stars except moc but i haven't attempt it with fei yet (35/36) and PF i just slap bronya on my Argenti, but the rest ,any SU , all the difficulties i have unlocked, AS, full clear. And it is f2p level fua - aven(e0s1) , topaz (e0s0 yet) , march (e6) and fei (e0s0) . I am so happy i pulled fei and yes she might not make that great numbers just by herself as Acheron do but the dmg output of both teams is on equal lvl imo, at least on not too expensive lvl, like f2p lc and not eidolons

[@Onimaey]

Acheron is the protagonist. She's like the main character of an anime where the rest of the cast just serves to give her more of the spotlight. Feixiao is like the red ranger. She's easily the core of her team, but everyone else is pulling their weight or gets time to shine.

[@WestProZ17]

Acheron is on fraud watch. She about to go down. KZbin comments and reddit seriously need to stop glazing this unit. Feixiao and FF are the better T0 unit. Hell Yunli is arugably up there too.

[@alexthomas1117]

It's about time to start putting 1.x characters in the standard banner... it would make 50/50 losses hurt a little less over time and they could still do reruns for those wanting specific teams.

[@SenMid]

I watched the whole thing good discussion icl

[@slip9618]

take a break man, you need it

[@PulseFGC]

FuA team definitely is not an expensive team, just got 11/12 on the most recent apocalyptic shadow and the last star wasn’t even from the follow up side. I used all F2P light cones as well.

[@archerkuro4158]

I don’t think they will bring hyper carry back I think they will flesh out archetype that technically exists but don’t have dedicated support biggest examples are summon archer, action advance with sushang and jingliu and skill poin consuming with Dan and qinque and basic attack damage with blade added in

[@generalsaverngild]

So units that are slept on like Seele/Boothill are due to a player's lack of knowledge? Truly a skill issue moment. Nah, I'm just joking around. I had Seele since she first came out, she's definitely stronger than most people think she is. That is, she's really bad if you don't have hypercarry units like Sparkle, Tingyun or Robin. Pull better. May the Amber Lord bless our runs.

[@cid3303]

honestly agree, Dot needs that one piece that will rise it back to t0.5 at least

[@ОлексаАндріяшевия]

I am from the future. YOU ARE SO RIGHT LMAO

[@okers12]

Most players don't have GNSW S5 I have 1 copy so far...

[@TerraTheWise]

Clara being in 1.0 with JL and DHIL is insane 💀. They need to move her ass right back down to 1.5 ain’t no way

[@Wingedlight-nn4hl]

I think that’s because of units like Jade who can increase her speed by a huge amount for a couple turns and also gives extra damage whenever Clara counters as Jade works really well with AOE counter characters like Clara and Yunli.

[@koko-hh2bq]

Main reason why she's on the same level is because hypercarry rn feels ass to play. Clara can perform well in both FuA and hypercarry, sometimes even outperforming both.

[@austinadvincula4410]

So you think she’s shit because she’s old???

[@insertnamehere2022]

Holy 1 hour of tier list yapping, where’s my popcorn 🍿

[@notxendras7730]

Bro Literally during pokkes video he said some shit like "its okay to have shit builds in terms of relics" uhhuh literally like the day after when he streamed my account was up for review and he fuckin shit on me for it Thats crazy bruh

[@SenMid]

Gonna cry?

[@cepillito99]

This is why context is important. If the context is a tournament where we are evaluating what we can and we can't control up until said tournament, having trash relics is not the focal point. If the context is an account review where we are focusing on ongoing opportunity and the one thing that your units are missing are relics, then yeah, we are gonna slam dunk on your trash relics. This is why critical thinking is important

[@kuvjason7236]

Well.. yeah?? You, me, Doro, Pokke, brax, etc can't control relics rng. We can only get whatever the game throws at us and make the best uses of what we get. Now if you got flat atk, atk%, def%, and hit rate% as a headpiece on your Firefly... then yes, you, me, and anybody else deserves to get shitted on

[@notxendras7730]

​@@cepillito99nah but he was going crazy on characters I told him specifically I did not build or don't use them at all

[@suhridguha2560]

lightcones are not important for the follow up teams. i clear every game mode without it. all three stars

[@iiMagicPlayz]

personally, I think Fu xuan should be where HuoHuo is

[@HuyNguyen-mf9fi]

I think prydwen lost their mind if they put Clara above Seele, most trustworthy tier list my ass

[@misora25chan]

That is because Clara got major buffs thru the new relic sets and light cones due to Yunli.

[@HuyNguyen-mf9fi]

@@misora25chan and still does less dps than seele, so what's your point? (and i do have clara e2 with yunli lc and new relic)

[@27Ganon]

She performs ridiculously better than Seele in stats so...

[@HuyNguyen-mf9fi]

@@27Ganon since when is cn stat matter in this? if it is then bronya should be t0 support

[@Yoru...]

​@@HuyNguyen-mf9fiWhat are you talking about? In cn stats seele performed better than every other dps in the whole list

[@HuH22132]

Just put ach in 0.5 tier and move ratio to 1 tier and should be good

[@picklerick8606]

hypercarry ratio is BLASPHEMOUS that’s fr crazy

[@lionmask3630]

@@picklerick8606 why? , it's pretty good

[@austinadvincula4410]

Hypercarry ratio actually performs really well with Jiaoqiu Robin and huo huo

[@zangerbox90]

I agree with most of your takes, you are spot on on a lot of things imo but the seele glazing tho. She's good but i think you're overrating her a bit. Otherwise, i love your vid !

[@randomNumber248]

Prydwen didn't "catch up" to Topaz being better. She didn't get better t'ill more FUA characters released. And maybe at most they are a patch or so late, because they look at player data to make judgements.

[@Mystra]

Hot take: Topaz can move up to tier 0 and Fu Xuan down to tier 1

[@The_CodFish69]

@@Mystra Topass is amazing however lets be honest she's hardly an upgrade over Moze at E0S0 it's her E1S1 that lets her Shine as the FUA support queen but without them she isn't that good especially now that she as comp so it's completely fair for her to stop at 0.5

[@Mystra]

@The_CodFish69 E1 Topaz with herta shop lc performs higher than E6 Moze. If you have to nerf character to E0S0 just to be slightly worse than an E6, that means they're op. And your last argument doesn't really add up to me, because specialists aren't good in other teams. Kafka and Firefly need 1 type of team or they're not great. That Topaz need both E1 and S1 is just a myth, she's amazing with just 1 of them. Also me having a take doesn't mean I'm saying the placements are unfair. I'm simply saying where I would put them. You know, that's what Iyo asked in the beginning of the video lol

[@The_CodFish69]

@@Mystra but it's still a limited character vs a F2P one of course she is Better but not by much idk if ya seen the leaks of the new MoC aka the new hardest boss in game. She can 2 cost 0 cycle it because of Moze, Topass is the weakest link of the team and is the easiest to replace meanwhile who can you use Instead of Robin or Aven currently? Yet again I agree she is Better then him but the Gap isn't that big especially calling her Tier 0.

[@Mystra]

​@The_CodFish69 Both are f2p. Remember that there's 3 main four stars on these banners, I ended up with E7 Asta. There are many f2p with E2 Acheron. This idea that E1 Topaz is this impossibility for f2p makes no sense No, I don't look at leaks. They ruin any excitement for me. Also please stop acting like tier 0.5 and tier 0 is this crazy difference

[@ciofurinone4225]

I don't think fu xuan is bad. I think universal Marketing Fu Xuan is terrible - she turns into a paper incapable of sustaining properly, so she doesn't work well with acheron (and maybe ratio). But if you use a decent LC on her, she will perform really well, I have been loving using her again with Feixiao, it is really comfy, she sustain well enough. So I really think she deserves to be t0.5.

[@FEIXIAO_WAITER]

As a Acheron glazer , e0s0 acheron is definitely not t0. That being said i think prydwen should reconsider the requirement of their tier list. Come on guys game gives you enough currency to get e0s1 characters.

[@literallyjiaoqiu]

e0s0 acheron WITH her designated supports. which atm, is only jiaoqiu.

[@Honamiichinose]

Acheron is still best dps

[@edimasv4581]

​@@Honamiichinosenot even close, but hey whatever makes you feel better

[@alonelycacti]

e0s0 acheron with jq is t0 bro. At e0s0 their best teams are considered. I have an e0s1 acheron and no jq, i still 4 cycled aventurine as a casual, could be 3 cycles with a completely optimised run.

[@keysos]

nah both feixiao and acheron are T0, i see acheron working way than feixiao in some situations, both are good enough to be called t0, my opinion tho

[@RuTo94]

Do you really need Robin for Feixiao to work or can you get by with Bronya or any other support? Edit : so I tried pulling for Robin now I got a E4 Bailu LOL 🤦‍♂️ guess we got a guarnteed Lingsha or Rappa. What’s your thoughts should I get Lingsha or get Rappa?

[@sir_rybow8342]

You can get by, feixiao is too good by herself but you do want to get Robin eventually

[@Mystra]

You don't strictly need her for Feixiao but damn she's good on that team

[@Shoujo_o]

Instead of Bronya run her with Moze and Hunt March 7th

[@The_CodFish69]

@@RuTo94 she is still good however it's a notable downgrade but that being said would you really pull her over Robin? That's like going all in on the Break team Getting FF and Lingsha but skipping RM it's the same situation.

[@Mann42]

In Robinless comps I've had more success replacing Robin with March than Bronya. The sheer number of attacks March can get off, combined with her massive toughness reduction, will trigger more of Feixiao's power than Bronya's action advance. Feixiao + Topaz + March 7th is genuinely cracked.

[@ItsWoop]

I think Acheron dropping is going to happen based on the tier list's defined rules, but I think Acheron will, in practice, be better for many players if not the majority. Fei absolutely needs Robin for the team to function nearly as good and really really wants Aventurine and Topaz unless you can guarantee wind-electric weakness enemies for E6 Moze. Acheron can use pela, jq, sw, guin, ftb, gepard, fu/aventurine, gal, without as significant of performance diff. This means you can save Robin (best unit in game) for the second side or can have a strong team without full limited 5 stars. Also, Acheron doesn't need two DPS relic sets to be farmed up since she's not reliant on a subdps. Topaz is like 20% of team dps and needs to be well built. And I'm saying this as someone who doesn't use acheron anymore, especially now that I have FART fua team.

[@neilwaterson2487]

rating team?? Dr ratio, silver wolf, March 7 hunt,huo huo

[@notxendras7730]

isint seele ranked that low due to the usage rate? cause i literally dont see a problem with her how many times people have shit talked her and still came out wrong

[@ih8usernamezalot]

Currently have feixiao and robin for FUA but no proper sustain other than Lynx and Gallagher. 'll be at 50/50 for either topaz or Lingsha. Thoughts on trying for Lingsha as sustain or try for Topaz and wait for aventurine? (Also have E6 Moze AND March 7 Hunt)

[@raisylvaine8398]

If you’re going to build FUA, Adventurine is premium for that team archetype. Lingsha is def built for Break/Super Break teams so unless you’re gonna pull for Rappa when she comes out or Firefly on her rerun, I prob wouldn’t recommend. They’re both AoE sustains but their offensive capabilities are wholly different and specific.

[@ih8usernamezalot]

@@raisylvaine8398 so better off trying to go for topaz and save for aventurine, use gallagher and lynxy in the meantime

[@raisylvaine8398]

@@ih8usernamezalot yep, I hear that Adventurine should be getting a rerun in 2.7 or 8 so you’ll have your opportunity!

[@UnbelievableLins]

If you have E6 preservation March she surprisingly good in Fei team if you need just survive few turns more and her hunt version is not enough for this. TopAss is unnecessary if you not running 2 fua teams. Lingsha is a fraud. I, personally, waiting for Aven rerun and just cope with March(or using Gala in Fei team and Himeko/HMarch with FF).

[@The_CodFish69]

Bro removed the comment calling him out huh so not only can bro take 0 criticism but actually silences it huh talk about being sucmy...

[@Iyoverse]

@@The_CodFish69 didn’t remove anything, I only responded to you. Thats the funniest part. Stop making up stuff dood.

[@The_CodFish69]

​​@@Iyoverse welp then why are multiple comments that all happened to disagree/callyou out disappeared? They all had those up votes so it's weird they just disappeared huh...

[@Iyoverse]

@@The_CodFish69 You’re about to disappear forreal if you keep trying to incite nonsense. I didn’t remove any comments and I don’t ever remove comments unless someone says something mega stupid or nasty/unnecessary. I’m not bothered enough by people leaving actual criticism. If the comments were memes about traces, then it probably got blocked by the word filter on KZbin. It’s scummy of you to be making crap up with no proof.

[@The_CodFish69]

@@Iyoverse so YT just randomly Removes Negative comments ( one's with 0 hate speech, offensive language or personal attacks ) hmm sure... Especially because this wasn't just one comment section but a few of them and all of them happened to be Negative so yet again you can't say my comment is unwarranted... And if you delete this comment then your just proving everything I've seen saying, yet again I called you out on something reasonable with no form of hate just facts so you tell me if this isn't silencing criticism what is?

[@Shoujo_o]

Deleted your own comment cause you were getting cooked. Pokke brigade going out sad.

[@Oatis_07]

The issue is i don't have the Team for feixiao

[@literallyjiaoqiu]

use march hunt or moze, youll be fine dw

[@cinnamonroll2374]

Level up the traces tho

[@memetic_hazard]

I thought the big difference between gnsw and Acheron S1 was the extra charges you get from the light cone? Feixiao just needs Robin to perform at a top tier level. Topaz and aventurine pushes it to its limits, but you don't need them because you can use March and Gallagher. There's a slight problem with Feixiao and it's her lightcone. The F2P option is cruising and that's great, but the problem is you've got another hunt unit or even two that want it, and not everyone has S5 swordplay or a limited hunt light cone. But Robin and Gallagher can do just fine with F2P light cones. Seele? I don't think it's a tremendous amount of knowledge that you need - it's a tremendous amount of farming and luck in order to get the right relics.

[@Kaien-qf6cr]

Am i forget or iyo already comment about new tier list before ?

[@tangerine569]

2:31 One For All vs All For One, they both got their quirks but stand together at the top

[@GabeIG]

certified yapper

[@g9itchify_115]

idk why linx is so high she sucks outside of blade or clara😭

[@josephoyek6574]

Clara relics are wild'

[@thelastgamurai]

"Fart?" 😂 Hahaha yeah would be bad. "Raft" "Frat" idk 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@yuorion3056]

i made it to the end!

[@juniorr4127]

RAFT instead of FART

[@RossettiRosemary]

44126 Cummerata Junctions

[@1Gymfreak1]

should we start saving for the fate collab?

[@cliffyjohnson2129]

The fate collab not even until Q3 of next year. Theres time but if you are worried then what you could do is save until you have 360 summons to garuntee 5 star & their lightcone I probably wont start saving until sometime in Q1 of next year

[@Mystra]

Unless you absolutely must have a Fate character E6 then no

[@keneunaegbu851]

How do yall even know we're getting a new character? And if so, how do you know there will even be a banner?? Genuinely curious

[@Mystra]

​@keneunaegbu851 It was leaked, I don't like leaks myself. I don't even go looking for them but I saw it on Twitter

[@cliffyjohnson2129]

@@keneunaegbu851 I dont know its just based on my assumptions from other gacha games. The collab could just be an event with an icon or wallpaper. We could just get a pet. Or we may get a banner. Could be a free unit. We wont know until more information so it wont hurt until to be prepared just in case. Even if we do save & its a free character then we can just use those summons on other banners & reruns for characters we missed. I just think rn its too early to start saving unless you want eidolons

[@Pilques]

Never understood the argument you and some people make about Firefly "Oh she's easy". My brothers in Christ, this game only has two buttons. Every character is easy. There is barely any execution or playing input necessary to be able to clear the hardest content. Some characters are just outdated and have to work harder to achieve what new characters are able to do, but when these old characters were released, they were also said to be "brain dead easy"

[@rolf1819]

nah this is a dumb comment

[@Pilques]

@@rolf1819 Elaborate?

[@whiteglint8191]

Yeah the 2 buttons argument is dumb, sorry. When you play Firefly you just target the big enemy and spam E. The small enemies will die from the blast damage. There isn't really much else you can do. In a Feixiao / FuA comp instead you usually have to prioritize targets, decide the optimal moment to use Robin's ult, deploy your ults in specific moments to optimize the action advance on Numby (depending whether he is in the charged state or not), choose whether to use some damage burst before Robin's ult is ready to charge it faster or wait for it in order to boost the damage as high as possible. Generally speaking the fact that you can trigger a chain multiple FuAs makes you think some turns ahead. These micro-managements are generally not required if you have a well built team, but it makes it so that the comp is actually engaging to play and allows you to make good or bad plays. With Firefly there is none of that depth, the worst and best Firefly players provided with the same characters' builds would perform nearly the same.

[@Pilques]

@@whiteglint8191 I agree that FUA has some nuance but it's still an easy team to use. Firefly is an easy character surrounded by slightly less easy characters and I really can't be convinced otherwise. Like I said, in this game execution doesn't matter, what matters is having the appropriate characters in your account. If I were to be hyperbolic, one could argue that deciding who to pull requires more thinking than actually playing the characters you did pull. At the end of the day HSR is a planning game, you plan your teams and watch them do their thing.

[@whiteglint8191]

@@Pilques Not really. Most people just follow like sheeps guide-makers or tier lists in order to decide who to pull for. So yeah, of course if you always get the latest meta team that completely trivializes the game you are not going to have difficulty. But if you play the game to have fun with the combat and just pull units you like, unless these happen to overlap with the most broken team, you are going to actually have a decent challenge that requires strategical choices with MoC12 and the other modes. Like it's so silly to say the game has no depth when you made everything in your power to remove challenge from the game. It is like playing any old JRPG by closely following a guide. The amount of actions you can do is definitely an important factor to the depth of a rpg, but Star Rail is a game that focuses much more on turn order and manipulation (especially because of the out of turn ult mechanic) than just having 200 different actions available.

[@kuro1109]

And here i am maining physical mc

[@literallyjiaoqiu]

based (he carried me thru most stages until i got my son yanqing)

[@kuro1109]

@@literallyjiaoqiu based yanqing, underrated character

[@albezelcz3452]

Feixiao is stronger than Acheron. Yunli is T0 as well.

[@neilwaterson2487]

Bring back kazuha

[@Ohmygh0st]

idk y’all used to love this dude but his cocky/standoffish behavior in this whole situation made it a lil bittersweet watching his videos.

[@keneunaegbu851]

Don't get too attached. Just enjoy the discussion/video or don't, it's that simple

[@AlexAlex-ct6ht]

Then stop watching

[@davidfrost5995]

It's not that deep bro, I'm not gonna hold a grudge that has nothing to do with me

[@Shoujo_o]

Most of the gacha CCs got the same attitude so idk see the difference

[@ahejleira5654]

Almost every CC in the gacha space has been in the same situation before, they are all cocky af. If you don't like a CC, just don't watch them.

[@grammysworld5449]

Ruan Mei still getting disrespected being in the same tier as Robin is just sad at this point.. That Delay is far more useful than anything in the game.. When Lingsha comes out with those passive superbreaks, the gap will get wider..

[@orion615]

16:50 "2 womaning pf" Bro that team had double e6s on a private server no shit

[@randomNumber248]

tbf, Seele eidelons aren't that good.

[@orion615]

@@randomNumber248 15 energy on kill, 25% more spd are game changing for pf

[@Yoru...]

​@@orion615No other character even with e6 can do that though

[@sct77]

Seele stans are literally cheating and completely throwing away the basic rules of showcases just to make her look good lol.

[@Yoru...]

@@sct77 example

[@pr8vatecoro-zq4hc]

That tier list is garbage

[@SerraAbyssAlisaris]

Hot Take from the number 1 JY Hater. JY > Blade/DHIL/Seele/QQ

[@lycoris_ly]

Blade and QQ maybe, but DHIL and Seele? Nah you're on some weird stuff

[@SerraAbyssAlisaris]

@@lycoris_ly last three MoC he has.

[@lionmask3630]

@@SerraAbyssAlisaris JY is not better than DHIL, I have both with high relic investment, JY does not stand a chance. I even had JY lightcone and DHIL outperforms.

[@Audaciter2]

@@SerraAbyssAlisaris Last three MoCs have all been quantum resistant on both sides (next 2 as well) and aside from a few sides, also imaginary resistant. I'd be surprised if other units don't outperform when things like these happen. But as always, people forget to notice things like that... unless it's lightning resistance for Acheron. It's always funny when players talk all big how good they are.. and then not notice something so simple.