J. Krishnamurti - Brockwood Park 1978 - Seminar 5 - Pain is the reaction to attachment

[@harresyakubi8403]

A lot of criticisms about the listeners. I felt they were wonderful and honest. Makes for a much more genuine interaction than if it were a bunch of people pretending they understood. Amazing discussion overall. I think his his message comes across most powerfully in this video. Thank you so very much for sharing.

[@abigailguzman5349]

He is not criticizing, he is trying to make them reflect more, without giving them the answers. He is respecting them, by not treating them as fools but giving them credit!!

[@dawidwenderski9097]

I also just yesterday understood with this video what he mean about flowering. And I am testing it the whole day on different emotions, and its work soo easy. My tour on Krishnamurti was a long time, 4 years, and just now i finnaly understand what flowersing means and how simple it is. Sad, that in soo long trip on world, he can not teach most of peoples, because i think he dont use too much god exaples. Thank god in this video he does. Thank You Krishnamurti for what have Your done. it is almost 50 yeasr latter and meaby it is time for humanity to wake up!

[@Jagrat-p5c]

What jk is saying here is of tremendous importance here...thanks for sharing! ❤️

[@jenniferlee5871]

Freedom to open the wound - Let it flower- Let me look at the hurt - Very fresh encouragement to not avoid hurt. Makes sense to face the story of pain . Then it may dissipate

[@sylviagung1007]

"Learning process is twisted"! Wow, young man, I am definitely with you, with those words you use. All of those participants are.coming from twisted learning process with twisted education. As K's said, "the higher the education out there the more severely twisted! They all have come there, with the enthusiasm to learn, but cannot break the circle in which they have been lost. And they are as trusted as K is, perhaps, even mad at K out of their own frustration!

[@mavanijj]

Agree and “real learning “of self is essential from childhood along with academic education so that there is a complete order in human beings🙌🙌🙌❤️❤️❤️

[@maracummings9767]

This conversation is my favorite of all so far! It shows clearly what’s going on with us. So helpful! ❤

[@jenniferlee5871]

Yes attachment leads to pain “ why can’t we see this and stop it immediately”? K says. Good question

[@Thought-is-Time]

He seems to say that once one ‚sees‘ and ‚hears‘ that pain (without thought, eyes, ears etc.) the pain dissolves as the illusion that it seems to be. This has not happened on all areas for me but it really worked in certain instances. So I assume in the case where it did not work, I must have observed from a standpoint of the observer. Therefore I have watched it with thought -> past memories of the self etc. ..

[@Knifymoloko]

I wonder... To see this and stop immediately may mean a radical shift in the relationship... Possibly even an ending of a relationship when seeing it is based purely on pleasure/attachment.

[@junejune6177]

It is so profound,wisdom, and full of compassion .thank you for these lovely channels ❤❤❤

[@andrewjakubczak1512]

Amazing video. One of the best discussions I have watched. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@tibetian6672]

Thankyou for uploading ❤🌷🙏

[@Anton-fw2wb]

I am afraid of the others and I closed in myself more and more until I do not mind to have relationships at all of any kind. Since my childhood I felt myself different from the others and my parents have always judge/blame me not to be like the others succesful, better than me. they want me to be like they thought it's right. They want basically to enchain myself to them. That's common concept of love that, actually is a negation of real love. That gives me sorrow, great pain, anguish. I thought I was incapable of anything. So I would like to be like the others despairing me non to succed. Pain grew. I built an image of myself and I pretend to act upon it find solutions always failure. That's me. Now I want to be happy, not °rich and famous°, learning not to succed for the other, for this brutal society. In this ugly world, everyone thinks that if something, some knowledge, awareness, do not translate in economical profit it does not work. That's the modus cogitandi, way of thinking.

[@sylviagung1007]

Sounds like mine, and as the result, I fell into deep depression of many years

[@Rajat-qo7ot]

Same boat

[@jenniferlee5871]

To Anton, this feeling is a familiar misconstrued concept of what love is. I guess one positive outcome of seeing beyond what other people want to form you to be is....... constructing your very own individual truth.. I wish you all the best in this. Listening to K is a good lesson. I too like how he opens the door to individual truth.

[@rolanquiper7503]

@@jenniferlee5871 the “you” or “self” has constructed an image of individual truth and therefore interfered in actual listening. In actual listening there is no thought involved. Individuality springs from thought and truth cannot exist in thought. therefore how can truth be individual?

[@Gaurav.P0]

We are on the same boat. But, on the positive side...All the suffering you have faced is finally led you to spirituality. Your unhappiness led you to JK's teachings. Means your suffering is blessing in disguise. You should now thanks to your parents otherwise you would have fallen asleep like other people by following society norms. Parents including society are unconscious and living in dream so we cannot blame them for anything .You are trying to understand this suffering shows your seriousness to understand the matrix. That's a good sign. Hold your suffering, love your suffering and transcend it. You are on write path.

[@RRijesh]

I wonder why people have difficulty in understanding him🤔 whenever the audience say something which is immediately striked down by him, it actually shows how sensitive he is. I wonder whether people can realise that too!

[@祈祈-q3x]

感知度 因為 K 沒有任何假設 所以 它 可以直接交流

[@ProjectMoff]

Sensitive to correcting people? Isn’t that a good thing?

[@ravikabir2276]

What I understood is to do away with your wound fear, weakness you must examine what is the wound and how I can come out of that wound, fear, pain without considering my remembrance.

[@Gaurav.P0]

Beautiful video 🤩

[@anjujain464]

I love Dr. Shainberg whose presence making the environment light

[@munihmuni8814]

Which one is that?

[@vickylesage9070]

@@munihmuni8814 With the glasses and beard who made K laughing, I suppose.

[@grahaminglis4242]

Dr Shainberg has trouble understanding the way Krishnamurti approaches the situation because he (S) can only think according to the training he received in psychology/psychiatry which always dealt with symptoms or reactions and therefore he keeps referring to consequences, not looking directly as proposed by (K) at the thought processes as they arise and certainly not referring backwards in order to fix upon an answer. So he’s showing how analysts approach anything about human behaviour, ie trying to modify symptoms one way or another dampening the fallout, but never removing the thing fundamentally. Now I don’t agree that Shainberg’s presence makes the environment light, he exemplarfies the difficulty that the participants have in understanding the direct approach to looking at attachment, dependency and so forth.

[@annelbeab8124]

​@@grahaminglis4242very well said.

[@andrewjakubczak1512]

@@grahaminglis4242 So (Dr Shainberg ) he’s showing how analysts approach anything about human behavior, ie trying to modify symptoms one way or another dampening the fallout, but never removing the thing fundamentally." BRAVO!!! Great Summary. I will say more. That is the problem with most of our educated "professional experts" who, with some exceptions, have NO CLUE what they are doing. They base their practice on book knowledge only.

[@mariushornung]

What is shared by words is universal ~ pointers to the essential self, underlaying reality, which stands so to say without a ground This is not some far away experience this is what we essentially are. The peace and the love we long for cannot be acquired for it is already given by simply being that which we long for - we are it. „We have eyes yet we see not, ears but hear not… yet it’s all there is and ever will be.

[@carolineserre7012]

Thank you for sharing this video . Now we understand better the teaching of K. Thanks!

[@sandydasilva2848]

😮 What is there to learn about myself? Nothing. Not a thing. Wow...Can I remain with the fact?💯 What am I paying/giving to stay with the fact?

[@ShivamMishra13]

These people in the audience do not have the ability to listen ! All want to show how much they know and how intellectual they are !

[@milandadasovic4657]

Yup, and this necessity to prove that you learned something kills the point. But that's how it is...

[@rolanquiper7503]

In judging the inability to listen, and in accepting that fact.. there is indisputable identification with “the audience”.. for there is no difference between the audience, the judger and the accepter.. Therefore, while thinking “you” were listening.. the thing that is called the “you” has interfered by thought and therefore it is a fact that the “you” prevented actual listening. Audience, judger, accepter.. all implies division and such can only spring from thought. In actual listening there is no thought involved.. If no thought arises there can be no division.. so has there ever actually been an audience, a judger or an accepter? Or has thought created such illusions of division?

[@Gaurav.P0]

@@rolanquiper7503 great 👍

[@errol-ih4jy]

only K could say that we are basically crazy, and because he approaches the joke, with no calculating, its so funny, and in a way that explains everything, because he approaches even the joke freely and thats why its funny. so approaching the wound freely, and telling you its story, it withers, but you need to understand that is a way of life, away from all illusions, thats how K lived. he did it for you, and he dedicated his whole life with affection for you, now that is Godlike, but he would say im not a God.

[@her26mlifecount21]

Using intelligence sees the whole structure of attachment and through seeing, one ends it ALL - and is FREE

[@alokdubey3726]

All guru works from egoistic center so they have organisation. their spritual journey are totally based on name and fame but krisjna ji different from them without any organisation

[@manumaster1990]

nice

[@mayaradraber7328]

Muito obrigada!

[@lethinh282]

how do you know about "IT" or feel it when we get limited (constraint) in the word and concept?!

[@ochaagburu6336]

You don't want to learn... You want to unlearn so bad that the only thing there is left to do is to KNOW. 🙏🏿💓

[@un_l_it]

He explains life at 1:02:31: "to remain so completely with the fact..."

[@un_l_it]

It ends at 1:03:00.

[@jalisandy5636]

" I don't know why you call it brokenhearted, it's rather silly"

[@sylviagung1007]

K asks if psychological matter would be the effect of physical senses. Perhaps they do, as he often says, "with all of your senses" but our senses are most likely greatly imbalanced, out of twisted education. The lack of listening skills comparing to seeing skills.... is a good example, I think

[@rolanquiper7503]

The senses sense effortlessly.. listening.. seeing.. feeling.. it is “happening”.. only when there is false sense of self, which introduces thought, this “self” interferes with effortless sensing and therefore prevents actual sensing altogether.

[@super7ace]

K used word "to watch it" without answering what would happen after it. like you watch, watch, watch until it comes infront of you. then what would happen next?. here, i think he is leaving it upto us to experience ourself. He didn't say it because then we would never inquire & we would never realize it. I guess that's the main difference between other gurus and JK. if there was anyother guru, he would have said that that then this will happen and it will go away. but then i guess we would forget it just the way we forget everything else. if we find out by ourselves then it would have a deep impact on us because we would then be realizing it and not listening to it.

[@andrewjakubczak1512]

Quoting you. "K used word "to watch it" without answering what would happen after it. like you watch, watch, watch until it comes infront of you. then what would happen next?." End of quote. J.K. tells us what happens next. He does. In many of his talks, he gives that answer. The "thing" that one watches within himself/herself (without mind operating with measurement=thought) simply DISSOLVES. That is the effect of watching it with awareness. What is that thing???? Nothing else that old ENERGY of our thoughts and connected with them FEELINGS/EMOTIONS which are TRAPPED within our PSYCHE/BODY. We HOLD ON to the emotional GARBAGE!! We do it mostly unconsciously. Sticking with PAIN and watching it equals allowing the pain to be. That conscious will of ours, to stick to the pain, to remain with it without running away from it like we normally do, results in FLOWERING. What is that? That painful energy stops being HIDDEN (suppressed) and just reveals itself to our consciousness/awareness. That REALIZATION ENDS IT!!!! Energy DISSIPATES. We gain FREEDOM. How does one feel it (Flowering) in the body? Check for yourself and do not be afraid :) 32:20 Quoting J.K. from this video. "The thing that we call fear may disintegrate through its own flowering." There you have it. He said it.

[@andrewjakubczak1512]

1:24:30 J.K. says: "And the problem (wound) it's like a wave, that brakes down and withers away". 100% TRUTH!!! A wound is a suppressed electromagnetic field of thoughts and feelings COMBINED. It takes time to REFINE one consciousness to the point that one feels that the electromagnetic field with OUR SENSES (Not the 5 we know of. There are 2 more :) It took me almost 2 years of constant watching (observing thoughts and feelings) to get to the point that my whole body was opened to "view" - read feeling the emotional energy. During LETTING GO of that energy I could feel waves of that old garbage flow from my head to the bottom of my feet. Layers of it would flow for minutes sometimes. One after another. There is no pain in that process at all. When all ended, there were no thoughts in my "head" at all, for some time. ENORMOUS CLARITY persisted ... until thoughts started to trickle back. Hopefully, that will help some of you. P.S. Word of advice. Please do not look for "waves", for "an electromagnetic field" within. FOR ANYTHING besides thoughts/feelings/our reactions. Let it all become natural. Take your time. BE OPEN. COURIOUS. Looking for things I described is a waste of time. Plus... who is REALLY looking (J.K. explains it)? :)

[@super7ace]

Ohh I see.

[@super7ace]

Currently, Im attached to a girl, who is on the fence about me. I really don't know what's going on in her mind. she talks to me for a day and ghosts me for the next 2-3 days. Im attached to her. Now, I wanna end this attachment and forget her. I see the whole consequences of it, becuase Im going through it. Even though, I have experienced all these things, and know it will be like this unless I just quit it, still im not able to finish it & keep going for that girl. why is it like that?

[@sanekabc]

@@super7ace But you are also correct. K often does not say what will happen so that you discover it for yourself. Also, so you don't approach it as a goal, which will prevent seeing.

[@fijianchild]

Easier to capture lightning in a bottle if you have not understood the presence of silence. From where, you are emancipated from the yoke. Where thoughts do not begin, and the peace of the self reigns.

[@poutinez1688]

There is Pleasure AND Pain in Attachment , as it is happening dude rather than Instantly

[@nrspinelli]

ok imma share this to see if anyone else has the same experience. when i look at the pain , it gets more and more and more intense, like i feel my heart is gonna explode, it is a super sharp intense pain, usually on my left side of the chest. i feel a great throbbing in my throat area also.... idk is this normal or....?

[@img008]

Now, you have this experience. Your experience becomes your god, your psychological authority. Can you be free of your own past ….. to look … at your chest pain (hoping it’s not a heart attack)😂?

[@ankurgupta9106]

Bro I am also having same situation.....May be it is looking without the past observer to your memories.... because watching fear implies feeling all your sensation of heart beating and heating up of the brain

[@preethikrao]

🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@YeatesByron-s1z]

Swift Light

[@healthpediashop8536]

1:20:00 1:28:10 pendekatan melihat luka bebas...tidak tahu....no konflik biarkan mekar layu dalam kebebasan

[@healthpediashop8536]

1:21:44

[@healthpediashop8536]

novel detektif...i dont know

[@kyletautau]

👃👃👃🙏🙏🙏👃👃👃

[@texastexas4541]

For most people, it is more painful to see that they are the real reason for their own pain. They would rather take the less painful road (justified in their mind), which is lower form of pain. For them, it is a lot more comforting to blame others for their own poor choices in life, which they do all the time. It is pathetic but that is what they do. Many of these people are arrogant, self-centered and dishonest to the core. You will notice something common in these people; they lie all the time. Most of them always blame their parents or spouses/partners for Evey problem. When they have their own kids, their kids do the same to them.

[@AnnieBowen-v3g]

Phoebe Shoals

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Windler Motorway

[@tatutatu9766]

Why

[@HuntingtonYale-c9p]

Jacobi Key

[@OmegaKercher-j9x]

Kip Mountains

[@openphilosophy]

oh my, poor man, he was so frustrated how the audience avoids his qns. every qn. When he said it,"how we avoid every question, for god's sake!" at 1:28:20. - i laughed because what he said is so true. most ppl's approach to the problem/to their wound is to avoid looking at it. the audience didnt get it even after he tried explaining the same thing over and over again in several different ways. it was honestly quite difficult to watch as i could feel his frustrations of not being understood. not because of his incompetency to articulate his thoughts, but he could not help them understand. this is not smth he can control, becos he is not them. he cannot think for them, becos he is not them. it's quite funny in an unfunny way.

[@openphilosophy]

bottom line is, just look at it. watch it. let the wound tell you its story. that's it. lol