J. Krishnamurti - Saanen 1978 - Public Discussion 1 - Can the drive of selfishness end?

Saanen 1978 - Public Discussion 1 - Can the drive of selfishness end?
Summary:
Is it possible for the mind to uncondition itself completely and not occasionally?
Is the experiencer different from experience, is the thinker different from thought?
When there is a division there is conflict.
Q: Many of us have been here many years. I am exactly where I was on the very first day.
From conditioning all problems arise, a certain drive to be more and more separate, violent. One who is serious says, ‘Will there be an end to all this?’
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[@DilbagSingh-sp2yp]

52:30 , it seems the most intense moments dear, totally straight forward from heart.

[@hadror13]

At this point I’m conditioned to these talks by the KZbin algorithm 😅 but it is always refreshing

[@elmarwagner2683]

If you want to know why he got so anxious, he really had a message, the whole package: love, compassion, end of sorrow, end of fear, the end of the fear of death, end of violence, end of (internal) conflicts, end of conditioning, stillness, order, etc., etc., you name it. He calls it a divine gift. If you want, you may include god, religion, spirituality, enlightenment, consciousness, meditation and all the rest of it. If only his listeners would try to DO what he said, for instance analyzing carefully, finding out completely and seeing the truth of it, then they could have a better life, but most of them come to get "teached". They don't want to find the solutions for themselves, but that was exactly what he wanted for us, because he knew that this is the safest way that we get it right.

[@linettewhite2122]

Agree totally 👍

[@VenuGopal-gf3do]

"The very listening of a statement itself is enough"

[@MrDrpk]

The man who is clearly frustrated knows that he is intellectually understanding K's point but is just not able to perceive it That's the sad truth for most of us

[@kalanobody3052]

all the people who do not understand this, the way it is presented, it all comes down to we are just the rubbish in our heads, and if we can see that, except that, because that is what we are, isn't it so, you will have peace, a total new different life.

[@gentiantafa4619]

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@jpbluecontrail]

This "confrontation" is the result of the frustration people experience when they accidently take the navigational chart for the ocean itself. K. , or whoever else, cannot make you into a sailor. Words stay in the dimension of maps. They can't replace the actual sea nor can they accompany you through rough waters.The journey belongs to you and stays solely yours only. The transcending from ignorance to factual, actual reality indeed is the greatest challenge of all. The most difficult journey to accomplish. It is at least of little comfort to know that we ALL have embarked for this trip. Let we stay together and not fight each other. Not least the ones who are trying to help us.

[@DilbagSingh-sp2yp]

That's it's really, thanks,everyday ordinary life is the testing ground and these beings out of compassion are just doing all they can to help us have a great ride but of course as you said ,oneself is the driver and have to drive all by himself there's no other substitute, but it's very encouraging when you are blessed with these master drivers who are all there for a novice like you, yes and it's fun to be in this trip together

[@Beiskraft]

Very frustrating that they can not understand the main point explained in so many different ways and still expect something to happen to listen to the same thing again.

[@manikkhanna2259]

hey , can you explain the main point in simple words to me? if possible , with example , thanks

[@chrishouck2863]

Everything in your brain makes up who you are. Limited. Selfish. Can we see in ourselves, that we are that. Can you just observe . That operation stay with it. That process should empty the consciousness.. and what is left is love ,compassion, intelligence.. Good luck. Your name and memories are just thoughts. Words.

[@brightmooninthenight2111]

You have summed up my experience with Krishnamurti. I know what he is pointing to, but only in knowledge. You are right, I keep listening, hoping. Maybe i get closer, maybe nothing ever happens. But I know the only solution is to dissolve this veil of narcissus

[@sricharanyellajosyula1867]

You should first understand what he means by conditioning

[@elmarwagner2683]

@@manikkhanna2259 See my comment in the comment section.

[@jenniferlee5871]

Words can confuse. Then stress. Then conflict. K has words that are open and can be heard gently….

[@chamelilondakenaach]

So in short terms: See or observe all that belongs to the structure of the self, which all could be called/defined as positive action and waste of energy. In that “seeing” one realizes that it (all) has to be erased to make room or rather energy available, which could be called (a) “ negative action”. In this action a mutation in the brain cells takes place.

[@elmarwagner2683]

The interesting question is, when you completely unconditioning yourself, if that is yet another state of conditioning, and if not, if you should conditioning yourself to remain in the state of complete unconditioning. Conditioning is the most effective way to change (human) behavior (permanently). If that is too complicated, you may start unconditioning yourself a conditioning that you are aware of. Selfishness gets you fast enough on the right track, if you really do the exercises. Just drop it.

[@elmarwagner2683]

@Manik Khanna Strip off all your identifications, beliefs, and even knowledge, and look freshly at the whole thing (that is: your problems) without judgements and evaluation. The goal is to get an insight in the problem that is an absolute truth. You will know that it is an absolute truth if it is irrevocable, no room for beliefs or speculations. You need to train your mind to do so, you need to learn to observe in stillness. The insight may not happen each time (Don't force it!), but if it happens once, then you know the way. Nobody can give you a true example because it's YOUR life. MY examples are mere words for anybody else. However, very often the solution is so simple that many people are unable to see it: Drop the whole thing! Like dropping your conditioning. But first you have to find out THIS solution for yourself.

[@linettewhite2122]

They can't or don't want to change The situation is perhaps 😔 I understand exactly what he is saying It is definitely not the speaker's fault.

[@ABDELHADINDIF]

Madame listen s'il vous plait

[@evanwilliamson3602]

I love how this gentleman picked up the British lingo and applied it in his conversations. 😂

[@starseeding4725]

Yelling gentelman is still trying to figure it out,while k is going around for them/him to see there is no you who can attain something,and that loop in head of a man is trouble itself

[@paradoxical33]

he said 3 times to her, speak louder, and she speaks even lower, come on

[@zhizhi9138]

Selfish - sell + fish

[@DilbagSingh-sp2yp]

52:30 , it seems the most intense moments dear, totally straight forward from heart.

[@gentiantafa4619]

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥