J.R. Returns with More Bad Arguments

[@Blagno4]

"I looked like a fucking idiot so I'm gonna call in again to repeat the same stupid bullshit again" is fucking wild

[@mrheisenberg83]

But he came prepared. 😉

[@EmilyAnne825]

The way he railroads the debate is infuriating. He couldn’t allow a sentence to go uninterrupted.

[@chrispysaid]

That's partially an editing issue. Multiple times, JR answered a question before Peterson asked it. The audio of the calls are desynchronized

[@lubrew5862]

JR is reading from a script. He is assuming Peterson’s answer and just jumping to what he thinks the answer should be according to the script. It is a technique often used by apologists and flat earthers. Both the flat earthers and apologists know if the person answering completes their thought it will show the obvious flaw in the question.

[@ezbody]

He is a presupper, which is the favorite style of apologetics of people with narcissistic traits.

[@chrispysaid]

@@lubrew5862 maybe he has a script but the audio ACTUALLY is desynchronized. It's an editing mistake. I'm a video editor, I know exactly what happened here.

[@peterwyetzner5276]

@@lubrew5862 He does remind me of Austin Whitsitt- a slightly toned-down version of constantly telling the other guy they've already lost, and how badly they're doing in the debate.

[@azndemonlord54]

JR didn't prepare, he's playing only one card. Steamroll and attack.

[@hailsagan8886]

I presuppose all presuppositionalists are wrong under my presuppositions

[@planetpeterson2824]

And I know this cuz the tooth fairy told me

[@jim7831]

Why is it that those who call you brother are the last people youd want as one?

[@billybobthornton9668]

@jim7831 My brother in Christ....I absolutely agree 😂

[@chrispysaid]

This dude's audio while he's on call is the most chaotic thing I've ever heard

[@dmonzel]

I love it when people spew word salad and think they sound intelligent.

[@lubrew5862]

He probably has couple of buddies that are slightly less intelligent than him so they are impressed by it. He also gets no resistance when he is around family when he spits out the nonsense. His family knows there is not point in having the conversation and the easiest way to shorten it without making grandma mad is by just letting him go on the tirade. I have a couple people in my family that are very similar. Most of us just avoid engaging them about anything political or religious or scientific.

[@peterwyetzner5276]

It's like when Joey thinks he can speak French because he makes French-sounding noises and waves his arms around. I wonder if he's ever genuinely open to changing his mind.

[@CeezGeez]

mix the salad with some big words and there you go

[@OceanusHelios]

Usually you can tell the level of somebody's intelligence by how quickly they might shrug and say, "I don't know." It is usually the ones that want you to always jump to their own (personal) conclusions about the big questions mortals have....about a hypothetical immortality they posit to be "true" that you can separate the men from the boys. A wise man won't pretend to know. A fool will want you to jump to his conclusions through word games, and not illustrating or pointing to evidence and real-world examples. For theists "truth" all exists in the realms of words and ideas, and never reality. They have magical thinking and magical words. For the disinterested observer, it inevitably looks like wishful thinking mixed with superstition, "I believe because I want to believe and I believe because Bob the Plumber told me so."

[@planetpeterson2824]

Pretty sure JR is the one who you hear in the beginning of the book ad lol

[@jennyeblain6604]

Surely JR knows he is insulting Peterson by saying he's no better than Peterson. JR, NOBODY thinks you're equal to, let alone better than him. Or us. Smh.

[@matthewshoemaker8086]

Ya , it's like the part of his brain that is supposed to be in charge of common sense, logic, and critical thinking is getting a wedgie from the rest of his brain !🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣✌️

[@rsjcoman9230]

One word for this dude. PROCESSES. Processes like logic, life and consciousness arent "immaterial". They're simply descriptions of things physical things do. His argument implies that even things like soccer games, Microsoft Office and psychotic hallucinations are immaterial, non-physical objects embedded in reality. It's absolutely trashed by playing it out to its conclusion. What a disgrace.

[@doranku]

27:35 "what matches reality better?" Things that are falsifiable, testable, reproducable, predicatable, like things we have actual evidence for.

[@seraphinaaizen6278]

This is what happens when a caller snorts all the cocaine in north America before calling.

[@pimpbisquick7036]

I'm convinced he had some left to partake during the call.

[@NeroHeresy]

JR if you are reading this, eat a bag of Richards.

[@scorptrio8231]

"God did it" has ZERO explanatory power. Theists are stupid.

[@azndemonlord54]

JR just wants to dominate the conversation. He's not calling for any semblance of edification.

[@aaronlietz]

Presuppositional apologetics is nothing but "I have a foundation b/c I said so! I solved Hume's problem of induction b/c I said so! Muhahah!"

[@paddyofurniture3988]

So, using HIS LOGICAL ARGUMENT....Zeus was the rational, logical argument for lighting back in the day...because his believers asserted it answered the question, right or wrong. What the actual fuck.

[@ondrejzacek9243]

If the word salad he spits out was real food I could feed the whole country but I'm not shure it would be tasty.

[@steventhompson399]

😄😄

[@babotond]

laws of nature are whatever regularities happen to exist in nature. they are just properties of whatever happen to exist.

[@Profato]

The laws of physics, which are man made, are our attempt to explain the universe. They are not prescriptive, they are descriptive.

[@pams6763]

Debate tactic - immediately start talking when you're opponent makes good points.then call your opponent Bro and laugh

[@Andy_Babb]

6:42 He thinks he’s crushing it lmao Dunning Kruger SOOOOO bad

[@vitro4957]

Two (initially) identical neural networks, one trained on cat pictures and the other trained on tree pictures will very inevitably and deterministically produce different outputs when presented with the same images later. Is it because of free will that they produce different outputs from the same inputs and same underlying "thought" process? Two (initially similar) human baby brains, one raised and educated on the best scientific knowledge and methods while the other raised only with superstition and religious dogma, are obviously expected to reach very different conclusions about the world around them later in life when evaluating the same facts using the same deterministic processes in the brain, no free will involved or required. Of course, the second person is more likely to be wrong, and will also fail to grasp this point.

[@EricusXIV]

My argument against God's free will: 1. God's nature (values, personality, and attributes) informs God's decisions. 2. God's nature is either contingent, necessary, or a combination of both 3. Necessity and contingency are forces external to God. 4. Free will presupposes the capacity to make decisions free from external forces. Conclusion: God does not have free will. Ps. I know there are very smart people in this comment section, so if you have any criticism against my argument, please tell me. Cheers 🥂

[@dianakiraly4862]

I had to take off my headphones, cuz I started to have an anxiety attack, eating up the mic, and hitting pots simultaneously is just too much :D Hats off to having so much patience, Eric :)))

[@OceanusHelios]

I died when you did the dueling banjos for the hillbilly caller.

[@foolishlyludicrous]

26:25. Did JR actually claim that his brain is identical to Peterson's? I'm intrigued to follow this to some other conclusions. Since Usain Bolt and I are both cis men, why can't I run as fast as he can? We're both human beings...

[@vitro4957]

He doesn't understand that the brain is fundamentally just a very complex state machine, that a current brain state is very much a result of its past states, not just a function of its current external inputs and basic laws of physics, and no two real brains can ever have the same past, present and future states. Yet it's still purely deterministic.

[@AlexPBenton]

I think in that circle example, the laws of physics *are* the circle, as in the line which defines the edge of the category of reality

[@paddyofurniture3988]

Presupping just asserting foundational cause based on cherry-picked logical arguments. There is NO real evidence for any god. PERIOD.

[@bgiv2010]

We just need to distinguish between laws in a legal context versus a scientific context.

[@vitro4957]

Free will is not just the ability to choose, it's the possibility to have chosen differently. "When faced with a choice between X and Y, I chose Y" is just a tautology. Could you really have chosen X instead (that time, not the next time you might face the same choice)? If yes, how can you be sure, is there any way to prove it?

[@kr00m]

Using determined physics as an argument for freewill is pretty funny.

[@RecRoomRon]

Meta ethics and presuppositionalism is a road to nowhere. This guy doesn’t realize that no one has access to the contents of another’s mind. What a waste of time. Peterson was right as usual.

[@alexritchie4586]

Bertrand Russell dealt with 'transcendentals' nearly a century ago by demonstrating that any proposed transcendentals are fundamentally arbitrary in nature.

[@lemmyhead8578]

And yet, for some reason, drunkards like this buffoon will continue to use the same bullshit.

[@soloact5195]

My guy killing it on the guitar lmao

[@OntoBunny]

It's infuriating when someone makes a few decent arguments for idealism, then jams in a bunch of religous claims about a creator and free will and so on. Even from an idealist perspective the universe is uncreated and free will only exists from a compatibleist point of view. It's dishonest to say consciousness exists, therefore christianity is the truth and you're a sinner.

[@admstick]

Deep River Blues! Nice

[@SeanArchibeque]

His attempt at control just looked like he was concealing a weak argument with constant interrupting. When we finally got down to an actual explanation it always boiled down to "mine explanation is better than yours, bro"... prove it or STFU

[@wessla]

If the universe had a beginning the laws and rules of that originated moment is unknown. If the universe came from nothing there wasn’t even any rules to stop it.

[@leandroreyno6430]

A man of many talents.

[@ezbody]

Presuppositional apologetics in a nutshell: Presuopose the existence of God. Presuppose universal awareness of the existence of God. Presuppose the deniers of the awareness of the existence of God to be liars. Use various verbal manipulation techniques in order to trick/force the interlocutor into admitting that they indeed are aware of God's existence (with near 100% failure rate). 😏

[@komradjay5738]

JR is just doing a really amateur version of Hegelian idealism.

[@tominator999]

Was bro skiing?? 😂

[@pams6763]

Or doing laundry? Or reorganizing his bedroom?

[@Robeebert]

The irony of a theist asking anybody to be honest... All theists are conspiracy theorists. It is not debatable.

[@catpoke9557]

What about agnostic theists?

[@terrydactyl2077]

Hey mate. Store is unavailable. Is there another store out or in the works? Also. Is the book available in audio form? Cheers.

[@foolishlyludicrous]

The black hole information paradox is kinda weird, but I have read some preliminary research paths that may show the paradox doesn't exist.

[@thanksalotAndy]

I will also interrupt every sentence you say if it's not what I want to hear.

[@somedude987]

peterson we're waiting for the book :(((

[@ianchisholm5756]

J.R. is determined to be wrong. Use the word 'determined' any way you like.

[@azndemonlord54]

Why does JR have two kinds of voices?

[@OceanusHelios]

Every apologist ever: "We don't know so of course we MUST jump to my conclusions." Every single time. Dishonesty and rudeness at it's most refined state.

[@lemongavine]

We need some kind of AI that can separate what each of you are saying at the same time and play them separately. I hate that I can’t hear what either of you are saying when that happens.

[@odiethe4th]

if this was mentally sparing J.R. Came unequipped.

[@hail_satan]

I never believed in a religion or magic, so i always wonder what its like to be so emotionally invested in something so obviously made up & silly. Its like would superman or batman win? Idk it depends in the story i guess, i wont crusade about it...

[@northernbrother1258]

The "laws" of physics are descriptive, not proscriptive. It's the difference between a car's top speed, and the legal speed limit.

[@TwilightCovenant]

J.R - "Just Rambling". Mf steamrolled so hard I think he might have made the earth flat

[@eviltoe7432]

Ah man, you need to upload that 2nd video lol

[@kyleharding7040]

Gives no evidence for his reasonings, gives no explanation as to how anything would work under his hypothesis, just trolling to be obnoxious.

[@z08840]

laws of physics (along with laws of logic) are descriptions of the properties of the universe

[@tysongalloway5700]

Were you playing some Doc Watson at the end there?

[@garysan]

Being determined to come to truth and reaching different conclusions isnt a contradiction. I'll never understand why free will enthusiasts always use that as a "gotcha" against determinism

[@ChickenHunter08]

JR listens to more intelligent people make the arguments he is trying to make, then repeats him poorly… and doesn’t understand what he is doing wrong, so assumes he must be right.

[@Silentsouls]

This is my understanding: the laws are not the same as we use to govern. The laws are just things that describe observations. therefore the laws are irrelevant without the universe.

[@OceanusHelios]

In collisions between philisophers who wish to word things into existence, and scientists who simply describe existence through observation, measurement, and testing....the philosopher will lose every single time. This is why the Greeks had some great ideas, but never really got past Aristotle and some of his absurd claims. Aristotle had the smarts but was wrong on, well, just about everything beyond mathematics.

[@malevolyndrgn739]

PP really needed to utilize the mute button a bit more with JR, he allows him to railroad way too much and just straight up talk over him.

[@Robeebert]

27:00 the word you want is "parsimony"

[@sequituranimus7145]

12:30 - no truth doesnt exist as it is a property of sentences. Truth and reality are not the same thing. Truth is simply a tool we use to evaluate the difference between what is real and what is fantasy or what is objective vs subjective.

[@matsjonsson1704]

The laws of physics are named in a collective name... The universe or nature or reality

[@pascalreload]

Can you make traduction of your book, in French for example ?

[@insydium7385]

Is there some logical problem with saying that the laws of the universe are mathematical descriptions of how the universe functions. Description of things are never the thing itself?

[@muveemanone2067]

Yo Eric, I think you're in the clear now, I heard dude give you the permission to laugh 😆

[@spin.chicken]

Math is not invented. It is discovered. What's invented are the words we use to describe it. 1 rock + 1 rock = 2 rocks. Doesn't matter if we "invented" it or not, that is ALWAYS the case.

[@spin.chicken]

What IS invented, would be units of measurement. Those are completely arbitrary numbers. 1 miles could be 250 gloobens. 1 mile could have been 1.1 harpors.

[@catpoke9557]

Yeah, it feels kind of like saying we invented cats because we gave a name to them.

[@thanksalotAndy]

Me use big words that have many meanings to prove my point.

[@kylemiller6560]

3:42 is this the 1st time he's said his arguement out loud?

[@CeezGeez]

that caller was the dumb

[@thanksalotAndy]

Truth is different to different people therefore meaningless in this warped conversation.

[@GrimAngel01100]

What was Peterson saying about the earth and sun orbiting before dud cut him off?

[@lubrew5862]

Peterson was talking about the Barycenter. When you have an object orbiting another it isn’t exactly orbiting the object. Both objects are orbiting their center of mass. In our solar system that center of mass is inside the sun, but not its exact center. So technically both objects are orbiting their collective center of mass

[@GrimAngel01100]

@@lubrew5862 aahhhg ok thank you!

[@dragonmaster1360]

This guy is infuriating...

[@ghostpacas7600]

What these idiotic theist love to do is shift the burden of proof by asking you questions Nd no defending their nonsensical claims. You allowed him here to question you most of the conversation without him defending his beliefs.

[@thanksalotAndy]

He is just going to BS in his own video on what he thought he heard. What a numpty.

[@dougbelford4565]

This is him being more clear-headed?

[@SextonHardcastle85]

Was bro in the middle of moving during this? Geez.

[@sequituranimus7145]

23:05 - "Because it has more explanatory power than yours". No, just no. It doesnt. "Because god" gives you no explanation for any how or why questions.

[@BryanBrooks]

It’s super annoying when guests keep brushing their mic against shit.

[@OceanusHelios]

At the last argument about mind and brain and memory. Well yes, memories are indeed manifested and "recorded" in a physical way within the brain. Yes, there are regions of the brain that the brain can adopt as its current "CPU" to process and "observe" and access the memory from. Yes, this can be affected by things such as chemicals, strokes, and all kinds of nasty things which can damage the brain and affect the "consciousness." Anesthesia can definitely knock you out and you might be under for days from it...and have absolutely no conscious thoughts, no dreams, and no awareness whatsoever about the passage of time or input from any of your senses. Essentially you are "switched off" but still alive. No personality being shown, no emotions felt, nothing. Zip. Nada. Zero-roonie consciousness nonsense. At a quantum scale, the universe appears to run on probabilistic rules. Einstein didn't like it. "God does not play dice." Well, Einstein, apparently the universe is a gigantic dice game. And if the universe is a dice game, it is not deterministic. And since it is not deterministic, that also implies that there is no sky wizard, zoraster, zeus, or quetzlcoatl running the show. The show is being run at the quantum level throughout the vastness of the universe....and the universe isn't even large enough to calculate itself. Just a bunch of granules of space-time working out probabilities from one moment to the next in a fizzy soup of vastly, for the most part, uninteresting fizzy soup. And this fizzy soup of a universe doesn't seem to give two shits what people think or if humans survive as a species or not.

[@catpoke9557]

We don't really know if probability on a quantum scale is able to affect the universe at a great enough scale to alter the decisions you make. Even if it can, the decisions you make are still determined by whatever is going on at a quantum scale, so I'd say it's still deterministic- it's just that things are 'determined' at multiple points throughout the universe rather than from the very start.

[@thesc0tsm4n9]

this guest is really really stuck with their poor bias that makes them intellectually dishonest with themselves XD

[@leerass]

Physical =/= material

[@ricktaylor14001]

This guy likes the sound of his own voice far too much - and he’s literally the ONLY one who does. The rest of the world is tired and BORED of him and those like him! Ugh 🤷🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤡

[@DemiImp]

The audio in this being offset is incredibly annoying

[@kaweckipiotr]

Classic, dancing on semantics just to not talkle the issue. Clueless

[@ghostpacas7600]

This guy loves the word “BRO” annoying as hell.

[@biogopher]

The audio not being lined up made this really annoying to listen to

[@capercaillieskye]

I have no idea what this guy is talking about XD I don't think he even has any idea what he's talking about lmao

[@KirinDave]

This guy is obviously wrong, but it doesn't feel like the host did a really good job actually honing on the gaps in the argument or holding this weirdo to them. For example, there's no contradiction leveled by determinism. That's an old and very debunked argument that most theists try to avoid now because it looks incredibly stupid when they say the universe wouod be knowable with determinism and you show them a video of you rolling dice and demand they call what the numbers that will roll up are.

[@yourturningpoint777]

Curious what your religious beliefs actually are.

[@timhallas4275]

He's trying to establish the difference between the hardware and the software of the universe. Hardware being physical and software being information. I agree with that concept. Math is information. It is not a physical entity. It is used to measure and describe the physical universe, but is not physical itself. WE created math, not the universe. Ideas are created as thoughts and they utilize memory. Memory in the brain takes a physical form, but the idea, like imagination is not physical. Therefore the IDEA of God is held in memory in the brain, but only exists in that form. God is imaginary. Those thoughts of God are stored in the memory, so the only connection to God is through thought. You have to imagine God, or he does not exist.

[@neodinson9928]

Does your book include a way to combat the infamous "Morality = god" argument? I usually combat this with "Morality is absolute" then they say "Proof?" and then I say, "Proof that its god?" then they get mad, because they realized unfalsifiable claims are an awful and intellectually dishonest way to explain things. Any how, I'm getting tired of this one. Does your book have any other ways to do that?

[@ivantsaichovsky9482]

When faced with this dilemma, I usually ask a series of questions about what they believe Absolute Morality would be. Firstly, is the Bible full of the Christian God's morals? If yes, does this God always do what is morally just? If yes, then killing innocent children via the flood or war is ok according to the Christian God. Ask them if they too think the killing of innocent children is morally just. If yes, then there is no need to have further discussion. If no, then ask why they would disagree with their God's morality. Either way they can't both agree that their God is always moral and discount the immoral things things their God does. Including allowing slavery.

[@wilberforce1826]

Oh FFS, dude brought Jim Bob's stupid "one result of physical laws isn't more correct than another set of physical laws, so you can't say you're right and I'm wrong" BS. Literally one of the dumbest arguments any human being has ever heard since the dawn of time.

[@bmorebrian3332]

Like why would you even engage with his ADHD ass if he can’t sit still or at least stabilize his mic long enough to have a conversation. I would have LOVED to catch this re-match but the constant noises on JRs end were so unbearable and ridiculously aggravating I had to tap out 😢

[@tomwolfe6063]

People still use the Bahnsen script? Hang on a second; I just need to check something..... Nah, never mind. Metallica still hasn't released anything worth listening to since Justice. Damn it.