Tinfoil Theories We Got Right (And Wrong) in Dragon Age: The Veilguard | Story Spoilers Discussion

[@Hexenkind1]

New theory: Vorgoth is an executor.

[@lordofgingers]

Wasn’t there a file in the data labeled that and it used vorgoths model?

[@Macaronracaron.]

@@Hexenkind1 He’s just a really chill guy

[@Eeb828]

Well the datamined executor model was described by Catie(Ghildirthalen) as “white Vorgoth”

[@cracmar03]

Nooo I liked him.

[@reffa2858]

Vorgoth is freaking amazing.

[@Kleineganz]

Well, my long-held tinfoil hat theory was "Sandal is the Maker." Definitely 100% wrong on that, but now we know why he had magical powers. He must have encountered something similar to Valta and Harding and had his ancient dwarven magic restored.

[@chapserenazula5657]

See that’s my thing, is that what they originally intended when they wrote the first 3 games or is that just added as a quick tie up for this new game?

[@Kleineganz]

@chapserenazula5657 no, because that wouldn't explain Valta gaining magic, and most of the original writers and devs were still with BioWare at that point.

[@chapserenazula5657]

@@Kleineganzwell that’s what I mean,David left BioWare after inquisition, and instead of Mary kirby trick weeks became lead writer and then Mary also left so now I’m feeling like they changed stuff or went with what they assumed what the og writers meant. Valta didn’t really have magic because that’s not how the titans were explained up until this new game

[@Kleineganz]

@@chapserenazula5657 What do you mean Valta "didn't really have magic?" She absolutely did. That was one of the most mind-blowing parts of "The Descent" DLC. Now she's transformed into that stone statue, almost as if she's becoming a new Titan. Actually, that might explain why we haven't seen Sandal. Perhaps that's what he's also started to turn into, and that might be Harding's fate as well.

[@krasmasov6852]

@@chapserenazula5657 So what did Valta do exactly when all that blue light shoved the Inquisitor back? That was not magic somehow?

[@reffa2858]

I was still hoping for a reckoning that would shake the very heavens....

[@anders8461]

Flemeth's DA2 "prophecy"?

[@Handwritten-vu]

I'm really wondering if the Executors are just that

[@arynrosci87]

Considering how Flemeth/Mythal propped up and supported the player characters leading up to this and the people who wronged Mythal were the Evanuris, you could argue that reckoning happened. The events of Veilguard shook the heavens and the earth.

[@ChrissieBear]

With how many times the Fade has been ripped open recently (once in Inquisition, twice in Veilguard) I think it's safe to assume it's thoroughly shaken.

[@reffa2858]

@@ChrissieBear youre right it has and with no lube. But it made it seem like Mythal had her own agenda.

[@carolynspring6399]

Personally, I think the lore suffered from not continuing to import choices from other games. Especially concerning the old gods, Mythal, the blight, the wardens, and Morrigan. I didn't like everything being one line leading to Solas and Mythal's fault. Also, some felt like retcons. Not everything was bad, I just feel like it could have been a lot better.

[@lordofgingers]

A retcon implies something was definitively declared one way (not hearsay via keepers priests and shapers) and then it was declared something else. A retcon would be “Yea that city we clearly showed you and told you was in par vollen? Yea no that was in the donarks the whole time” That’s a retcon.

[@Macaronracaron.]

Tbh the three choices you get to pick don’t even matter at all!! The only one that I saw that had any impact on the game was if you romance solas (if you finish the solas regrets quest line). It’s really a shame ☹️

[@carolynspring6399]

​@@lordofgingersThank you but I do know what a retcon is. I am referring to some of the codex entries that highly suggested that the blight came from the void. Also, The gray wardens weren't really needed to fight the archdemons anymore. It felt frustrating to me, as someone who loved the lore behind the grey wardens.

[@lordofgingers]

⁠​⁠@@carolynspring6399you have to be mindful of who wrote those codex entries in universe. David Gaider stated he deliberately wrote the codex that way. Until you get definitive proof via your own experience in the world of thedas, you don’t know for sure. For example in soldiers peak, a warden says the black city is the source of what the taint is and then in veilguard we are blatantly told this in our in game experience. However, I’m not so sure we know everything there is to know about the black city, which if other hearsay codex entries are correct, implies the black city is both the void and not the void at the same time. Also, I think veilguard deliberately through evka and Antoine’s questline made it a point to say that the blight is changing and evolving. As in it will exist without archdemons.

[@carolynspring6399]

​@@lordofgingers I can see some validity in that argument. Still personally I feel like what changes they've decided to make to the lore just weren't executed or implemented well in Veilguard at times. Personal opinion. 🤷‍♀️

[@maximnewman2483]

The bit I’m still not clear on is how the high dragons that were bound by the evanuris ended up below ground.

[@jord839]

Personally, I'm hoping the Executors are more of a human thing, if only to have less elves involved in every aspect of the ancient lore, but I wouldn't discount them yet. It might not be Ghilain'nain of the Evanuris, but rather Geldauran of the Forgotten Ones who was involved. As a fellow Forgotten One, that would help explain Anaris referring to wanting to leave the fade to escape *his* eye. They could have been originally allied only for Geldauran to win out over him and become the main threat. To quote his codex entry from the Jaws of Hakkon DLC: "The script is an ancient elven dialect. Upon further observation, it twists, the words becoming visible: There are no gods. There is only the subject and the object, the actor and the acted upon. Those with will to earn dominance over others gain title not by nature but by deed. I am Geldauran, and I refuse those who would exert will upon me. Let Andruil's bow crack, let June's fire grow cold. Let them build temples and lure the faithful with promises. Their pride will consume them, and I, forgotten, will claim power of my own, apart from them until I strike in mastery."

[@maiafay]

I personally head canon humans who fled the Evanuris and “found” some eldritch horror across the sea to worship. Making a fanfic that will play around with that idea. It’ll be fun.

[@smellycatbutts]

I'd prefer humans be boring and bland just like we are in reality. Nothing special.

[@Halfbad-bf1lt]

I will just add that humans aren’t originally from Thedas. Thedas the continent was originally inhabited by the Titans, and subsequently the dwarves; the elves then came with the Evanuris. So humans do have a bit of a mystery within the DA world, because we don’t actually know where they came from before coming to Thedas after the Elevn empire fell. It’s entirely possible they are connected to the Executors given they are also “across the sea”

[@anrios575]

I think you got something wrong for DAV. The Black City was the place Solas locked the blight BEFORE imprisoning the gods. So they are not there. Which is why the Magisters found it empty.

[@Macaronracaron.]

I just wanted to know what was the original plan for morrigan’s son? And the inquisitor drinking from the well of sorrows!! Veilguard just threw it all away completely

[@lordofgingers]

Well Kieran gave the soul to Flemeth so whatever the plan was for him ended there. As for the well of sorrows, with Mythal dead by the hand of Solas and Morrigan only having memories (a point she stressed heavily), either Morrigan only, or both Inquisitor and Morrigan, have access to the information, but with nobody left alive to be bound to, that’s about it.

[@CombieFighter]

Probably nothing, because not every player have done the deed with Moriggan to get Kieran. Some world state Kieran doesn't even exist.

[@Light-11]

I can tell you now, there was no plan for Kieran. David Gaider talked about it on Blusky they other day but trying to account for the dark ritual in inquisition was a nightmare that he spent ages trying to solve and the solution he found was basically just turning it from a huge story/lore moment to a personal moment for Morrigan. I don't remember the exact figure but according to Bioware's telemetric it was something like less than 5% of players did the Dark Ritual so trying to do anything major with it was a nonstarter because in a vast majority of games it just... Didn't happen. Again this is something David Gaider lamented on because saving the soul should have been a hugely important thing and they wanted it to be... But since it was optional and not just optional but the minority pick there was very little major stuff they could do. Its the downside of Origins being expected to be a one and done affair, they did huge things not expecting they'd actually have to follow up and when they had to follow up later well... Again David Gaider made it clear how much of a nightmare it was to work around.

[@RalphCifaretto-iy1hk]

​@@Light-11Where did you get that most players didn't do the Dark Ritual? It's the only way you stop yourself or Alistair from dying

[@lordofgingers]

@@RalphCifaretto-iy1hk Through the servers, Bioware/EA have analytics that tell you what choices players made. I am assuming that out of the 4 options with the Archdemon, the majority did not choose the dark ritual

[@tobygrimes9633]

Two more I think we got right are " The Forgotten Ones are the Titans , and "Andraste was Mythal. #1 Merrill's story that the Dread Wolf forged a weapon to end the conflict between the elven gods and the forgotten ones and over threw them both. #2 Morrigan stated that a piece of Mythal eas married to an Alamarri chieftan.

[@lordofgingers]

That would assume the likes of Geldauran, Anaris, and Daern’thal are shades of titans and not elves. Bear in mind Merrill is hearsay but could have a grain of truth. Morrigan, since she carries Mythals actual memories, is a proper sauce unless she’s lying, but I can’t see why she would

[@tobygrimes9633]

@@lordofgingers Harding talking about all the dwarves have "Forgotten".

[@lordofgingers]

@@tobygrimes9633 as I said it’s entirely possible the forgotten ones are not elves but shades of titans but the question is if they had corporeal forms, what did they look like

[@mattphoenix4702]

The Andraste/Mythal theory just doesn’t make any sense. I don’t know why people try keeping it alive. If you want to learn more about Andraste, go read some French history. She is lifted almost entirely from the story of Joan of Arc. Yes, you can make a vague and speculative connection between Andraste and Mythal because they were both betrayed and murdered. But that inspiration is again pulled from Joan of Arc and not DA lore. Joan was betrayed and abandoned by the French court once they had gotten what they needed from her. She was essentially handed to the English, and after refusing to recant her belief that the saints and god were directing her, she was found “guilty” of heresy and burned. If Mythal was joined with Andraste, where did Mythal’s essence go? We now have confirmation that Solas really DID destroy a part of her when he killed Flemeth. Flemeth, who had years and years to lay the groundwork for the smooth continuation of Mythal’s “life” in another willing host. Flemeth, who had all the knowledge of Mythal and was STILL unable to avert her own fate because Mythal is NOT a god and is NOT omnipotent. The fact that Flemeth’s personal history mirrors some parts of Andraste’s history is not evidence they’re the same person. They existed in canonically different ages. They sought different goals. The tactics Andraste used alone are enough to put this theory to bed. Andraste was naive and idealistic. She acted in the open. When she led armies, she did it from the front. She was NOT a trickster, and not deceptive. Mythal IS. Flemeth IS. Please remember where Mythal comes from. She was, as all the old elves seem to be, a spirit at first. Spirits are powerful and varied, but they are also binary. They are two sides of the same coin. Mythal was a protector and lawbringer, Mythal was vengeance incarnate. She can flip between the two personas, but they are ALL she can do. Demon of desire will never become a demon of sloth, a spirit of faith will never become a spirit of justice. You have the option to make Cole more human in Inquisition. If you do, it does NOT change his fundamental nature. He is still Compassion. Mythal and Flemeth slink around in the shadows. They nudge events every now and then, but never overtly and never do they draw attention to it. Andraste tried to capture the attention of the ENTIRE world to spread the chant of light. She was EVERYWHERE. She is still remembered and honoured by Thedas, the Chantry operates in the name of the Maker and his bride. For goodness sakes, the Ashes of Andraste are a real thing in this world. They are imbued with powerful magic. If Andraste ever HAD been an abomination, and there is enough circumstantial evidence to suggest it’s not a crazy theory, it was almost certainly a spirit of faith. Faith is a force that does not weaken with time or distance. It is also undefined enough to allow for clever writers to claim some artifact or urn had mystic powers to heal the sick where normal means fail. Andraste’s ashes saved Eamon because we BELIEVED they could. We had faith in their power. Outside of wishful thinking, it really is time to just accept you cannot logically claim Andraste was a host for Mythal. It doesn’t work, and would require retconning of a decent amount of Thedas lore at this point to make it work. Everything we now know about the nature of beings in Thedas precludes it.

[@lordofgingers]

@@mattphoenix4702one thing I checked was whether or not andraste had daughters. She did. Two of them. This makes me wonder if she passed the essence onto them and from them came a long chain of hosts or if something else happened. Or perhaps there is something else we don’t know. I always found the circumstances of the maker “appearing to andraste” odd as the tale sounds similar to what Flemeth described. It’s also possible Morrigan was written to deliberately keep the identity of the woman who fell in love with an alamarri chieftain vague on purpose to invite discussion.

[@Mrnickstr89]

5:58 My only gripe- we NEVER got to see a live Titan

[@CelestynGrimsun]

Anybody else a little... Disappointed? By the fact that in the 10 year gap, Morrigan gave in to Mythal? I didn't think that she would ever give up and take Mythal in after everything she stood for up to the Veilguard.

[@BelieveIt1051]

Not if she drank from the Well and was bound already anyway. At that point she had nothing to lose. This is also probably one of the reasons for the 8 year time-skip. Kieran is an adult now, so Morrigan doesn't have to stay safe for his sake anymore.

[@brendag6148]

She refused because she was afraid that she would lose herself and become immortal. When it was clear she would stay herself and saw more of the bigger picture, she changed her mind. Seems reasonable enough for me

[@TheRoguePrince0]

If the archdemons are tools and puppets to the elven gods than doesn't that put the darkspawn Chronicles timeline dlc in a whole new context.

[@lordofgingers]

Yes. If Bellara and Neves codex is to be taken as fact (which I recommend not doing unless the game actually shows you or blatantly tells you something is fact), then June (through Urthemiel) was directing the darkspawn, likely not knowing that their enemies across the sea basically dangled a Twinkie of power in front of them so that a grey warden could ensure their demise. And if the OGB ritual was done, solas ends up eliminating the host anyway.

[@AKTechX17]

@@lordofgingers Could you explain a bit more on this?

[@lordofgingers]

@@AKTechX17 in a codex in veilguard, Bellara and Neve discuss which old gods match up to which evanuris. They believe urthemiel is Junes archdemon. So if this opinion of Bellara and Neve were to be considered fact, the implication in DSC is that June was speaking to you through Urthemiel. Given that the executors influenced the sidereal to crack the black city to release blight, I suspect the reveal there is going to be that their biggest goal was to eliminate the evanuris permanently. To do that, they needed to come up with a way to do that while they’re still trapped in the fade. That’s where the blight, the old gods, and the grey wardens come in. One can’t help but wonder how the grey wardens figured out they needed to drink darkspawn blood and all their practices. Would make sense somebody told them.

[@nuworldpress]

Awesome video! I have a few theories I haven't fleshed out, but I'm always late to the theory game. Theory 1: Solas doesn't regret felling the Titans because their hive mind dominance of the dwarves was akin to slavery, and therefore severing their connection to the stone would have been freeing them from the Titans. I'm basing this on those weirdo dwarves we meet in The Descent DLC, they seemed pretty 'hive mindie' I wonder if I take Solas down there, does he say some old cryptic shit. Theory 2: Rook's choices in recruits after Varric are all literal lifesavers. Bellara is likely killed by the Ogre upon finding the Nadas Dirthalam, Lucanis dies in prison, Taash is killed by the Dragon King, and Emmerich's Arch Rival builds her Mega Zord unbothered and takes out the whole Necropolis. Hell Neve dies in the Dragon attack if she doesn't stick with the team after the first mission (she mentions her apartment was destroyed I think), I think this is intentional as a way to underscore the teams bonding.

[@akatsuki3399]

So on the Descent DLC for your first point, alas, Solas doesn’t say anything. He literally has one line on the way down the elevator. He’s completely silent the rest of the time. 😂 Which is now hilarious in retrospect. (But also because I believe that DLC was intended to be completed after the main story.)

[@nuworldpress]

@akatsuki3399 I guess that tracks all things considered. He would have been responsible for EVERYTHING you are experiencing.

[@masc4mascara39]

I’m not sure that the Executors aren’t connected to Ghilly SOMEHOW, even if they’re not aligned with her now, like you say. There are a few mentions of the ‘devouring storm’ in codex’s, Taash’s quests and from Anaris in Bellara’s quests. The executors also call Ghillinain the ‘storm’ in the post credits scene. If I’m not mistaken there’s also a mention of the executors being associated with the smell of sea water or salt water in Tevinter Nights (it might be another novel or story) which is also associated with Ghil’. So, in my opinion, there’s definitely links there, I just don’t know how they connect. I could be wrong but there’s too many similarities that make me think it’s not a coincidence.

[@lordofgingers]

It's possible Ghilan'nain tried to harness the devouring storm as Anaris did. She had a knack for shaping and molding forces most others could not control.

[@masc4mascara39]

@ Yeah, I was thinking that she somehow accessed the power of the forgotten ones for her experiments, or she stole it from them when they were dethroned by the Evanuris or something like that. I just don’t quite know how to connect the dots yet, maybe we just don’t have the necessary info to do so.

[@maiafay]

She had ties to them. I think it’s in the codex somewhere where she tried to work with them back when. She’s separate though.

[@HeroOfTime223]

Can’t wait for new theories! I for one can’t stop thinking about the blight box in the murals and art book. Is it just chilling in the black city? If Solas is in the new prison, can anyone who can tear into the fade just go and get it? If it contains the dreams/souls of titans, can it be healed or is it too far gone? If the executors wanted the evanuris out of the way, do they want it? It’s probably nothing, but I’ll never stop thinking about it 😭

[@ChrissieBear]

7:22 Not wrong though. She is responsible for everything Solas did, including the shattering of the dwarven people, the creation of the blight, the elves being enslaved, the elves losing everything, the Evanuris empowering the Tevinter Imperium, and also the Evanuris causing the blights. She's also probably responsible for the Executors (who I still posit are enacting the will of dead titans).

[@XxW4RB0RNxX]

I appreciate your videos keep up the good work im always here for more DA lore

[@ndennant]

Plot hole: What happened to the other 5 Elven Gods? Why did only Elger'nan and Ghilin'nain escape when Solas' ritual failed? We now know that killing an Archdemon doesn't kill its respective Evanuris it just makes them mortal...so where were they?

[@TheRoguePrince0]

You kinda just answered your own question. They became mortal and died of old age.

[@lordofgingers]

The respective evanuris being in the fade is not the same as the respective evanuris being in thedas. When the evanuris is in the fade, they die when their old god dies. When the evanuris is in thedas, you still need to defeat the evanuris itself too. I suspect the enemies across the sea knew of this and took advantage of

[@ndennant]

@@TheRoguePrince0 so why weren't Elger'nan and Ghilin'nain dead after their Archdemons were killed in that case?

[@lordofgingers]

@@ndennantsame reason davrin didn’t die. The evanuris leaving the fade and returning to thedas changed how it works, which davrin, Antoine, and Evka all made it a point to say on multiple occasions

[@ndennant]

@@lordofgingers Is there any lore that supports that theory?

[@Eeb828]

I’ve been saving your play throughs for boring days at work - so happy for this bite-sized theory video!

[@sirmag1735]

I am beyond disappointed in this game :(

[@jessicatate3162]

I feel like the Executors are connected to the forgotten ones

[@lordofgingers]

fairly likely given that to bring balance, their biggest competitors needed to be removed from the board.

[@KeKozak]

If they turn out to be just more evolved I will shit a brick

[@RobRocky]

Not going to post spoilers, but there's a certain mission that might give you a hint.

[@krasmasov6852]

Yeah, Anaris was screaming about escaping it's eye. Who's eye? What does it mean?

[@lordofgingers]

@@krasmasov6852 The eye of the devouring storm.

[@Mrnickstr89]

9:10 How crazy is it that the Executors are now antagonists instead of protagonist allies lol

[@VillianousKitty]

Still dunno anything more about the Scaled Ones tho 😭😂

[@lordofgingers]

If I had to guess. Human drinkers of dragon blood. While qunari are elven drinkers. It is currently unknown if there is a dwarven counterpart. Voshai perhaps?

[@AmbigousInfluence]

@@lordofgingers Well we do know that the Qunari before the Qun were the Kossith, but according to Bull they are different, "changed" I believe he said. From what the Qunari are now, likely related to the adoption of Dragon Blood before the Steel Age but it is hard to say for certain.

[@KeKozak]

At this point it’s probably elves just like the rest of the lore

[@mauricewilks1974]

Maybe they are the Executors 😂

[@Emanon...]

New theory: It was Agatha all along

[@iedawahato]

I am so glad the Old Gods = Evanuris theory turned out wrong...

[@hjsimmer1742]

So the other elven gods that lost their archdemons in previous blights… how did they die? In Veilguard E and G are rendered mortal once their archdemons are taken out. But then our heroes take each god out. Who killed the other gods? Or did they just die in their prison somehow?

[@yfullman]

Their souls were canceled out by the souls of the Grey Wardens that killed them at the end of each Blight.

[@TheInterestRates]

I think it can be safely assumed that the other 5 Evanuris eventually withered in their prisons. Though I do wonder whichever Elven God that was tied with Urthemiel may actually still be alive, if the Warden did the ritual with Morrigan. Surely it would take at least a century for them to die in the Fade, based on how powerful they'd be even when mortal.

[@BelieveIt1051]

It's obvious. The Warden who strikes the final blow dies. So the souls of the Warden and the evanuris obliterate each other. This doesn't happen in Veilguard because the evanuris are awake and free, not merged with their thralls. So they are basically just Corypheus, or a lesser version of him actually.

[@krasmasov6852]

Probably died in their prison. Without their immortality, the blight gottem I assume.

[@JamesCourse66]

Out of all the things I hated about the game, the continuation of this lore is what I approved of. Due to fan theories including my own I got about 90% right, even down to Mythal having come to Andraste. It’s unfortunate a lot of fans feel like this was retconned lore when it was pretty well hinted at.

[@kingdane17]

Did the game ever explain where the humans came from? I feel like they are the only race without an origin story

[@lordofgingers]

Not yet

[@cracmar03]

I hope if there will be explanation, they won't borrow one from TES'es ... though already elves were spirits is straight explanation from TES'es.

[@graynor67]

I think humans and qunari will get a big focus in the next game

[@lordofgingers]

@@graynor67 there's basically little to nothing left of elven lore to tell, a little bit of dwarven lore, and tons of human and qunari lore. So I suspect elves will take a back seat in the 5th (and probably last of the mainline games before they do spin offs) and focus on the other 3 predominant races.

[@maiafay]

Mythal was insufferable though. What she did to Solas was terrible and dehumanizing, and then she says she releases him at the end? She’s gross AF. I don’t understand what the heck Solas saw in her. I fought her for her essence because trying to reason with that arrogant snot and appealing to her overinflated ego left a nasty taste in my mouth. Also, in all endings but the atonement one, Solas keeps the dagger. That’s like giving a prisoner the keys to his cell. And how would he even soothe the blight from prison in the atonement/solavellan endings when he “doesn’t” have the dagger? How is Lavellan even eating in that prison? How is he protecting innocents from there? I think Weekes made a huge mistake confirming the Solavellan ending is them exiling themselves to that regret prison. It would be better if they had access to all the fade- if only to protect Solas from some psycho trying to kill him to bring down the Veil. And in the trick ending or the bad ending where he declares himself a god, that dagger is with him. What’s stopping him from going to the lighthouse and killing Rook? I just…(sigh)…the writing in this game, man. Damn.

[@BelieveIt1051]

Weekes was never good at overarching storylines. Only character dialogue, and even that was questionable sometimes.

[@rille758]

'What Solas saw in Mythal' - that's the weakest point here! Suddenly he's not a grey character motivated by the fate of his people (spirits/ elves) but a simping doormat! And if everything he does was for Mythal, why does he kill her in Inquisition? It doesn't make any sense and cheapens his story and character. I think their original plan was to reveal that Solas was a spirit that was bound by Mythal and that's why he did all she asked of him. The Veilguard would then end with Inquisitor or Rook releasing him from bounding / slavery (with a lyrium dagger for example), and it would set up Mythal as a villain for the next game. We could then have Morrigan / demon baby story arc in DA5. But they have changed his motivaions to 'loving Mythal' because they wanted a reboot in a new and clean world state (with most of Thedas destroyed and Solas and Mythal's arcs resolved in the simplest way possible, and DA5 happening in different parts of the world withount the need to import world states from previous games).

[@BelieveIt1051]

@@rille758 They radically changed the lore and the ongoing plot. They literally inserted a conversation that never happened in the Solas/Flemeth scene, and even gave Flemeth elf ears. Like, what?!

[@Astralaeyna]

This game has just given me brand new theories... Like I'm wondering if, after what we learned about the anciet elves, if this is the last we've seen of Elgar'nan and Ghilanain. Or if the other elven gods might make an appearance in spirit form. I also wonder if, whatever faction Rook is apart of, is now perhaps the caretaker of Solas's lyrium dagger. There was also some datamined stuff, and in one case something about Viper being the Black Divine...? Which, if that remains true despite it being cut from the game, would make sense why he didn't die of the blight in one of your choices. Yet in the opposite choice like... 5-ish named people die and dozens of non-named NPCs die off-screen.

[@yfullman]

I feel like it's basically confirmed the reason the old Wardens died whenever they killed an Archdemon was because their soul was being canceled out by the soul of the Elven god, and not the dragon. Maybe they'll have fragments or wisps yet, but I think the Evanuris is done.

[@afrobanditx2972]

I still believe Mythal is the big bad she clearly said in origins she gives history a nudge when needed the same thing the executors pretty much said in the secret ending she also says she want a reckoning and she will see herself avenged she never said that stopped with the evanuris in fact she never actually said it was about them. I still believe Mythal is the leader of the executors and she has another aspect out there

[@RejectedInch]

saving this video for when i finished the playthrough. 👍

[@jessiel3836]

okay but if Kieran has the soul of an ancient god in him wouldn't that mean that there is still another elven god around besides Solas? I don't think we have an answer to what happens to him or if that is cannon in Veilguard.

[@paendapower]

Flemeth/Mythal took that soul in Inquisition if Kieren existed in the worldstate, though I have no Idea what was supposed to happen with the soul after. Maybe it's with Solas as he killed Flemeth.

[@arynrosci87]

My working theory right now is that the next Dragon Age game will be final installment and focus on the last big question that Veilguard didnt answer: whether the Maker exists. The Executors have been alluded to at least since Inquisition and have ties across the sea. Taash's quest revealed the Qunari fled something called The Devouring Storm. And if Inquisition is any clue, the characters and stories Weekes does himself are loaded with clues. So how i see this going. The Elven pantheon has a lot of Olympian themes as well as the Norse myth themes people lean more on. Elgar'nan's story about being a child of the sun and the earth and defeating his father is very similar to Zeus (also known for being a vengeful god) being the child of Kronos and the Titan Rhea (Elgar'nan's earth mother is revealed to be Titan blood/lyrium) but his father the sun is not elaborated on. But the fact that he could force the sun and moon together to make an eclipse shows theres some truth to the legend. In Greek myth above all the gods and titans are the primordial dieties like Gaia who is the Earth and mother of the Titans, and Chaos, which is the originator of everything. I allege that the Maker is real and hes their version of Chaos rather than the more Christian interpretation the games have. That when Elgar'nan and the Evanuris made their physical bodies it pissed off more than the Titans, it also pissed off the Maker who tried to wipe the slate clean Bible style, but lost the fight with Elgar'nan. And his presence in the world might literally be the sun (which would be a cool nod to the Mayan mythology). And it could be that the Executors are actually servants of the Maker and carrying out its will. The "Devouring Storm" could be metaphor for what they've done in other parts of the world while Thedas was out of reach because of the Evanuris and the Blights. So they needed them out of the way in order to be able to move in and take over/convert everyone. And i suspect that various NPCs, enemies and even allies have been their agents since the mid-credit scene implies they had a hand in all of the world shaking events that led to the "poisoned fruit" ripening. The magisters sidereal were influenced by them, and they were unknowingly taking their marching orders from the Evanuris. The big drivers were Dumat and Urthemiel influencing the Conductor (Corypheus) and the Architect. Dumat is Dirthamen's archdemon and Urthemiel is June's. They might have been double dealing behind Elgar'nan's back. Loghain was "guided" and his biggest (bad) influencer was Rendon Howe. During the Human Noble origin he showed an uncharacteristic expression of guilt when the human noble wishes him well and it could be that he wasnt acting entirely of his own accord. If anything keeping Loghain against the Wardens and denying the Blight set up the opportunity for the Archdemon's defeat by the flow of events. If Riordan hadn't been imprisoned hed have met the Warden and Alistair sooner, and they would have deferred to him for leadership because hes a senior warden and theyre both still recruits. They "whispered" to Bartrand. This one is tricky because the Idol was messing with his head but it sings, it doesnt whisper. But then you have to consider how that expedition was pulled off. Somehow they got word of an ancient thaig that turned out to have a corrupted idol made from Solas' lyrium dagger that was instrumental in Veilguard. And then you have the person who got them the financing and the real muscle for the job. The guy who claims he never left Kirkwall since he was born but knows a person everywhere and has a spy network he never really explains. Varric. And Varric, who is an Andrastian despite his family hammering Dwarven culture, had a key role in the formation of both the Inquisition and the Veilguard which set the stage for the Executors. And despite being a dwarf and not connected to the Fade, was allowed to appear to Rook as a ghost in Solas' prison and give him one last coaching before the final battle. And let's not forget it was one of Varric's war table ops that first led to their encounter with the Inquisition and they are mentioned in his book, Hard in Hightown. So it proves he knew of their existence when theyre something virtually unknown in Thedas.

[@mayacarraway8953]

I agree with this but I think there will be two more games personally. It feels like they have set up a new triology

[@arynrosci87]

@mayacarraway8953 Considering how long the development time took for Veilguard, I'm not sure a lot of people interested will still be interested and around in 2044. Lol

[@sirmag1735]

I seriously doubt there will be another dragon age game guys, this one took 10 years and went backwards in quality in 10 years.

[@freazeezy]

Varric slander! Varric would never! (But seriously that's a decent theory)

[@megamike15]

thats something i enjoy about dragon age more then masss eeffect. nothing feels like a retcon every lore revalation feels planned.

[@heathcomans7809]

still waiting for jackdaw to make one half critical comment about the game or all of the retconning at least

[@JackdawYT]

They are coming, want to give the game more time and multiple playthroughs

[@krasmasov6852]

What retconning?

[@neembeans4699]

I can’t take most of these retcons/lore reveals seriously. It’s clear BioWare wants a new shadowy figure across the seas to act as a reset/clean slate for the franchise, and it’s also apparent that certain writers have a desire to move away from the elves/titans and ultimately gaiders works/worldbuilding. The fact that we got nothing about Andraste this game was immensely disappointing, they pretty much cia neutralised the south so badly that there would be no worth revisiting it in new games. All this about the qunari coming from across the seas fleeing an enemy (executers) feels like a cheap cop out, and I could go on but what’s the point, the disrespect to the fandom is evident. This game was not made with love for the people that care about this story or who created it in the first place.frankly I have loved this franchise for over half my life and I don’t think I can in good conscious support any further DA releases.

[@neembeans4699]

Also what about old god babies ? andraste a half dwarven old god baby was literally such a solid and well supported theory and they just didn’t touch it? this game is the end, if anything comes after how can you support it? It’s like the ship of Theseus! they’ve taken away everything that made the narrative cohesive and have instead retconned and created huge plot holes and weird nonsensical inconsistencies both narratively and thematically.

[@krasmasov6852]

Really weird comment. We got a shitload of lore about ancient elves and titans in Veilguard. Like it was a huge central focus. You have no idea what they're going to do with the south. In fact, they have suggested a desire to revisit older choices in future entries. Additionally, the choices made in previous games can easily affect how the south is rebuilt such as who rules Ferelden, Orlais, and Orzammar. The Executors have been a thing since Inquisition, and why the Qunari migrated south was always a mystery. How is it a cop out? You're disappointed they didn't reveal more about Andraste, but you're also disappointed they did reveal more about the Qunari? You're being inconsistent. What about the old god babies? That wasn't addressed in this game. Why does that mean it will never be addressed in the future? Woah retcons and plot holes? Inconsistencies? What are you talking about? Can you be specific?

[@ivanhunter6492]

I wanted to see ALL the Eveneurus, not just those two

[@BelieveIt1051]

Technically you didn't even get these two, since BioWare had them be tainted to the point Corypheus was in Legacy. Meaning Cory's Inquisition version was more powerful and coherent than these two.

[@xenon8117]

Elgar and Ghilly were dull as shit next to Corypheus.

[@Lilac-and-Gooseberries]

All the others died when their Archdemons died, since they became mortal and vulnerable to the Blight.

[@BelieveIt1051]

@@Lilac-and-Gooseberries I think it's implied that the evanuris escapes the prison when their thrall is tainted, and their soul is destroyed when the Grey Warden strikes the final blow. But I wouldn't put it past BioWare to have the evanuris simply die in the prison, since that would be yet another plot hole added to the list.

[@DarkAgeDude]

I believe the other Evanuris are alive(no?) Or did they die when their archidemons were killed?

[@cracmar03]

Well Elgar'nan wrote to Ghilan'nain to get 'time to mourn' loss of Andruil .. so we could assume 5 Evanuris out of 7 are gone in some way.

[@Iqbalx1]

I assume with the connection archdemon had with the gods is once they are dead the evanuris are unable to live in the fade so they die not long after

[@joanhammond7261]

Fed up with people keep saying bad thing about it dragon age veilguard is ok I like it yes something I am disappointed about it but I still play it making different characters

[@chargers0001]

Just a massive disappointment when it comes to writing unfortunately.

[@Ross-qp8eq]

To bad there will never be another dragon age game

[@krasmasov6852]

Do you know next week's lottery numbers too?

[@ShoppingAttic]

No fan theories were wrong because lazy, contemptuous writers got all their lore wrong. Veilguard is shit. I loved dragon age, played all games, all books, comics, art books etc. veilguard is shit. No one at bioware except epler was left from previous games, and it shows. We all know now why the others left/were fired, they didnt agree with the terrible direction they were going with da4. The solavellan ending was CRUMBS. The art book revealed what Dreadwolf was supposed to be.

[@krasmasov6852]

What lore did they get wrong specifically?

[@BelieveIt1051]

Spirits to flesh. Yeah, we all knew what Cole was referring to here. We also saw the Baroness shift from the Fade to the real world and take physical form. So we always knew it was possible. But I don't remember anyone speculating that the spirits made bodies from the lyrium or the titans. And BioWare forgot their own lore to write that into the story. Spirits don't need lyrium to take physical form. The only message that hints at people arising from titans or lyrium or the earth are the dwarves, which is the only thing that makes sense because until Veilguard, the lore was that dwarves were not of the Fade. BioWare tried to rewrite this with the dumb idea about the titans all being severed from the Fade all at once by the lyrium dagger. Until Veilguard, the common belief was that the evanuris used lyrium to empower their own magic and build the elvhen empire with it. Old gods/Evanuris. BioWare pretty much stole this one from fan theories. Cassandra speculates the old gods are basically like what Cory's dragon is to him, and Solas dismisses the idea. That was all fans needed to speculate the old gods were just linked to the evanuris though, even if the numbers didn't line up. But, eliminate Mythal and Solas and you get seven for seven. The titles of each don't line up either, which Veilguard even clumsily dances around. And of course the sexes don't line up either, as at least six old gods are male while three evanuris are female. And of course Veilguard didn't account for Urthemiel's soul being preserved through the Dark Ritual. So that was another blunder on BioWare's part. All they had to do was allow the Dark Ritual option, and then have Solas purposely try to tear down the veil after Elgar'nan's destruction resulted in no change to the veil due to June's soul still being alive. No. Solas' only meaning was that killing the old gods would not result in all darkspawn being destroyed. The darkspawn would still exist, including the broodmothers. So the blight/taint would still exist in Thedas. There was no storyline about any taint cube or mad titan during this time. I think most people at the time theorized that killing every old god would result in every darkspawn going mad like The Mother did, or perhaps gaining sapience and attacking the surface all at once. Mythal speaks the Calling. This was never actually said in the game. That line was delivered in reversed form. It was never meant to be canon. It was only meant to be a sound effect of being under the Well's influence. But if it were intended to be canon, and Mythal can speak the Calling, this could have meant anything. Veilguard states that Mythal had no part in the plans of the other evanuris to use the taint as a source of power. So how could Mythal speak the Calling when she was never tainted? More likely, this would have referred to her knowledge of how to mimic the call of the old gods, which anyone could learn. Even Cory and the Nightmare knew how to mimic the Calling. In Mythal's case, this may have meant her or Flemeth having come up with the Dark Ritual. It also could have referred to the cure for the taint. I think the reversed voice also referenced the west, which is where the Hero went to find the cure. This was obviously all scrapped in Veilguard. Possibly scrapped in Trespasser, actually. Red lyrium/taint/titans. This may be another one BioWare stole from fans, though the Trespasser message about the horrible thing in the Deeper Roads being discovered and then sealed off could mean BioWare was changing the story around first, and this is where fans got the theory. In either case, this was a dumb direction to take the plot, as nothing in DA2 even remotely suggests red lyrium is tainted. Anders, a Grey Warden, never says he senses the taint coming from the Red Lyrium Idol or red lyrium in general. The rock wraith also remarks that the spirits feed on the red lyrium, which probably wouldn't be the case if it were tainted, as spirits and demons avoid the Black City for the same reason. The first suggestion that red lyrium carries the taint came from Bianca, and her conclusion was faulty since she thought the taint only infects living things, when in fact that is not the case. It can also infect magical objects, such as Merrill's eluvian shard. As for Solas sealing it away with the veil. This was NEVER speculated by fans, and this is obvious since the veil didn't actually seal away the red lyrium. Even Veilguard implies this wasn't the case, since the lyrium dagger is the RLI, meaning the red lyrium got out into the world even after Solas imprisoned the evanuris. Also, I don't think fans got this one exactly correct. The speculation was that a red lyrium titan existed. Not that the titans' severed dreams created red lyrium as a defense against the evanuris. The speculation that a red lyrium titan existed came from the message in Here Lies the Abyss about the red lyrium being sundered, etc. and "we have found the dreams again". Sound like you're making stuff up here, Jack. Most theories at the time were that the Golden/Black City was Arlathan. Not a prison created by Solas. In any case, this was always a dumb theory since the lore from Origins has established that multiple eye-witnesses confirmed the city was golden before the Magisters breached it. This is BioWare forgetting its own lore again. Another contradiction is how none of the archdemons actually try to breach the Black City, find the RLI/Dagger, or tear down the veil. Mythal is the big bad. Yeah, that was never going to be the case. Especially when considering how much she helped the protagonists. If anything she just wanted revenge and justice. Old gods are the evanuris. As above, this isn't exactly true. It was more like Cory with his Red Lyrium Black Dragon. But they were linked the whole time, and this is one of the worst directions BioWare could have taken the plot. Not only is it Corypheus' story rehashed, but it eliminated five of the evnauris and two of the old gods from being their own unique characters. BioWare did this out of laziness so they didn't have to write for seven evanuris or two old gods. They even disregarded Urthemiel's soul in the process to keep the story as basic as possible. Bad theory with no lore to back it up. This is more than just a plot twist, it's a plot hole. If the evanuris are the ones speaking through the old gods, then why weren't they telling the Magisters or Wardens to free them? Why are they calling darkspawn to come corrupt them? Also, how are the old gods not corrupted already if the evanuris were tainted? Wouldn't they have tainted their thralls as well? The Executors stuff is just a slap in the face to Dragon Age fans. I do think everyone agreed that Inquisition was taking things in the direction of elves getting more lore time. But this new direction was just horrible in its presentation and in the details. Massive lore contradictions all around, and major plotholes. And no, there was no closure between the Inquisitor and Solas. That ending was bad too.

[@xenon8117]

Agreed with pretty much all of this, DAV either retconned stuff or outright forgot stuff to create new lore. It wasn't a case of exploring new truths half the time it was outright saying most of what we know was entirely wrong. I love elves in media and elves in dragon age are great but now everything is down to the elves and it feels like a very small world where 9 people are responsible for everything.

[@BelieveIt1051]

@@xenon8117 AND... and... those nine people were actually being manipulated from the shadows by the... Executoooooorrrrrrrsssss! Woooooooo-ooooo-ooooo!

[@krasmasov6852]

None of this is convincing. How do you know spirits don't need lyrium? Cole manifested in a circle tower. Isn't there lyrium there? The Baroness did not take on the literal body of a mortal. She was a pride demon. You can tell because of the whole looking exactly like a giant pride demon thing. Lol oh wow Solas was misleading. How strange! Also, I don't think you really get archdemons. They are not literally evanuris. They are dragons bound to them. The old god soul preserved in Kieran may not literally be June's soul but rather an aspect of his power. Also, the religion of ancient Tevinter got the genders wrong lol. I mean it's not like the evanuris were being honest with them, right? Not sure what you're arguing here. The Darkspawn would still be a threat without the archdemons, but they wouldn't be organized. We learned in Veilguard that red lyrium is not always tainted with the blight specifically. It could just be the "anger" of the titans. That is, of course, what the blight is ultimately, but it could function differently when it comes to grey warden abilities to sense it. Eluvians are made using lyrium, so the blight only affecting living things still checks out. The blight was actually sealed away before the veil. The evanuris tapping into it after it was sealed away is what drove Solas to rebel. When Mythal tried to get them to stop using the blight and they killed her for it, Solas' rebellion really kicked off. The veil was created to seal away the evanuris, not the blight. Uhhhhh what? Where does it confirm that the black city was ever golden? Andrastian mythology was all written after the magisters breached the fade. And the old gods could've just been lying to the magisters about it being golden. How's an archdemon supposed to do any of that stuff? What are you even on about? Mythal being the big bad could've been cool. Solas helped the Inquisition a great deal, and he still ended up being an antagonist. Is it Corypheus' story rehashed, or is Corypheus trying to copy the Evanuris? It's been a running theme that ancient Tevinter was always just a feeble attempt to copy the glory of Elvenan. Take away the propaganda rhetoric there, and it's clear that the ancient magisters at least strove to be as powerful as the evanuris. Now you're just making incredibly bad faith speculation here. A story is more cohesive and contained with fewer characters. They did try to tell the magisters to free them. That's why the magisters breached the fade. The "old gods" told them to. The magisters failed to do it the way the evanuris wanted, and the evanuris remained sealed away. Instead, a portion of the blight was freed. Once that happened, the magisters stopped hearing the old gods. Clearly, something about breaching the veil and reaching the black city interrupted the Evanuris' ability to speak through the old gods. Nah Executors could be cool. Depends how they handled it. They seemed interesting when they were introduced in Inquisition. The Inquisitor and Solas absolutely got closure lol. You're just lying now. Huge fail of a comment bro

[@souran1321]

The biggest tinfoil theory was that BioWare were still capable of writing a good story.

[@FearlessXful]

Why are you little children still here? Just leave and let people who actually enjoyed the game to discuss it.

[@Macaronracaron.]

ALL the original writers left so it’s a miracle that they were able to build anything that made any sense at all….

[@lordofgingers]

@@FearlessXfulthey have a right to be here. However, the misconception I am seeing is that “the lore is broken” (which it’s not). The issue that they’re trying to convey when they point out their issues is the quality of the writing (ie dialogue), which is different from lore (the reveals and current codex, which mind you is mostly opinion and hearsay, not fact)

[@joshpearce5874]

Christ I bet you're fucking dull

[@angelobasilicata2]

​@@lordofgingersLore might not be broken, but it's severely depleted. Once we used to have Evanuris, Old Tevinter Gods, Titans and the Church of Andraste + the Maker. Everything has been dumbed to cater to the lowest common denominator. It might make sense, but it's very disappointing

[@rille758]

The weakest (pun unintended) point of Veilguard for me is changing Solas'es motivations. Suddenly he's not a grey character motivated by the fate of his people (spirits/ elves) but a simping doormat who does everyyhing Mythal tells him to! And if everything he does was for Mythal, why does he kill her in Inquisition? It doesn't make any sense and cheapens his story and character. I think their original plan was to reveal that Solas was a spirit that was bound by Mythal and that's why he did all she asked of him. That's why he hated slavery and spirit binding so much. The Veilguard could then end with Inquisitor or Rook releasing Solas from binding / slavery (with a lyrium dagger for example), and it would set up Mythal as a villain for the next game. We could then have Morrigan / demon baby story arc in DA5. But they have changed his motivaions to 'loving Mythal' because they wanted a reboot in a new and clean world state (with most of Thedas destroyed and Solas and Mythal's arcs resolved in the simplest way possible, and DA5 happening in different parts of the world withount the need to import world states from previous games). Also I feel like maintainig Solas original motivation would be too expensive and compliated for the higher-ups in bioware. We could have had elf rebellion and Veil falling diwn, even if only lically, let's say in Arlathan. And instead we got Solas as a simping doormat idiot.

[@QwkDrw84]

This game and it's contributions to the lore have honestly ruined the series for me. I've never been more disappointed about a piece of media in my life. Dragon Age was my favorite fantasy universe and the new leadership at BioWare has shit all over it! Every single one of your theories was more interesting than what we got. 🤬😭

[@graynor67]

Shit up lmao

[@lordofgingers]

I don’t think it would have mattered what we got in more reveals because of the writing quality, which was pretty subpar. The codex entries were interesting but whenever most characters talked, it was just like…idk. If they do another game, a silent protagonist might be better tbh

[@krasmasov6852]

bro wut

[@TheRoguePrince0]

I hope in dragon age 5(yes their will be a 5th game) that they do a more grounded story. No more mirrors, no more false prophets! Just a simple story about an exiled human prince that has to build an army and gather allies so he can take back his rightful throne from his evil uncle. Dragon Age: Prince Caspian

[@lordofgingers]

Probably not gonna happen. Expect to go beyond thedas like mass effect went to andromeda with the big bad being the executors and their devouring storm while the big good is the great dragons.

[@cracmar03]

@@lordofgingers Andromeda was flop though. People in general do not care for soft reboots. And DA atm left out several things it should have solved. Like what about Calling cure that HoF was looking for ? What about Fade part from Inquisition, what happened to Hawke if they were sent there ? Even now at Veilguard, BioWare probably sees people generally do not care for any type of reboot as half of uproar is due to Keep missing. So next game, if there is one HAS TO get Keep back. And game should properly reflect it. Especially when people would want for finale all previous protagonists back with their love interests.

[@lordofgingers]

@@cracmar03what it has to do and what they will do are two different things most likely given their track record. That being said, I am inclined to believe that in inquisition, we were not in the black city but we were on the same island as the black city. I also suspect the titans west of the hunterthorns were not sundered and thus, the cure to blight would be there if anything

[@cracmar03]

@@lordofgingers If we go "Across the sea" means it's soft reboot. Nothing you did ever affected anything beyond Thedas. With such logic, we could literally go back and venture past Korcari Wilds to whatever lies on south. After all Urthamiel's blight started somewhere there. Hmm I never expected in Inquisition that we were in Black City at all. Black City was supposed to be giant mystery. Which part you refer that we were in Black City ?? Well with Cure for Blight I think the biggest issue that most of fans want it for HoF and Allistair. Well clock in timeline is sadly ticking, and Veilguard didn't do it any favors by several years timeskip.

[@lordofgingers]

@ not the black city proper. The island it’s on. Explains the red lyrium. Sadly I do not think the HoF and Alistair will be cured. Maybe alistair since he’s related to Fiona but not HoF. But of course the more years that pass in the dragon age the less relevant the past becomes. I expect the core series to end with the end of…well…the dragon age

[@BelieveIt1051]

On a side note, I was right that Meredith could and should return. Absolution made it happen. And Meredith did nothing wrong.

[@TheBulge]

There are no theories that were right, dragon age 4 doesnt exist, it didnt happen

[@lordofgingers]

For good or ill, it did

[@BubbleoniaRising]

TF clown shoes.

[@XxW4RB0RNxX]

Ummmm ok bud lol no one is forcing you to be here

[@AndDrewastaken]

Yeah but we have been theorizing for a while let us have this for good or bad.

[@TheBulge]

@XxW4RB0RNxX I'm happy to be here, da4 is finally the point where there is nowhere to go but up. We are at the absolute lowest point we could get in gaming and everything from here is gonna be great in comparison. Lots to look forward to