Controversy at the Champions Chess Tour Finals

[@gmludovic]

imagine telling magnus carlsen hes wrong about chess 💀💀

[@jacksarkisian]

arbiter thought she was Magnus Carlsen 💀💀

[@Jeeprepdiaries12]

@@jacksarkisian ive heard the arbiter last name is nieman 💀💀

[@HemanthSai-tf5sm]

Bruv he’s magnus just magnus not fischer

[@DingisChilling]

@@HemanthSai-tf5smhow they both are different in terms of chess ?

[@HemanthSai-tf5sm]

@@DingisChilling to be very precise neither of them is good chess is a game created by Indians with millions of possibilities and not even engines have mastered chess so in that reference “ he’s just Magnus “ kudos to India for creating this game probably the one who created can be used as “he’s not wrong about chess”

[@GorbonM]

While arbiters undoubtedly do a lot of good work before, during and after tournaments, this is what Fabi was talking about with his 95% of arbiters are completely useless quote.

[@jacksarkisian]

i don't think 95% of arbiters are useless in general - i think its more fair to say 95% of arbiters are useless at major tournaments where it matters. generally speaking the majority of arbiters would be completely competent arbitrating amateur tournaments.

[@TheLincolnrailsplitt]

David Howell is an extremely sharp commentator.

[@jacksarkisian]

easily my favourite commentator at the moment, loved his commentary of the WCC with Jovanka Houska on the FIDE broadcast

[@CyphPlays]

Fabi: Chess Arbiters Are 95% Useless

[@korndogssb]

You keep saying computer got it wrong, but im almost certain it was a mistake by whoever was supposed to check the computer. In my experience working in IT, these kinds of mistakes are almost always user error.

[@erikmarkus7467]

the user error was the fact that the arbiter moved the knight - played the move "by carlsen" - which it wasnt played by him. the computer correctly assessed that theres no three-fold repetition since it considered the new position with the knight already on a new spot

[@thomasadkins7159]

It's like you said, Jack. It's on the arbiters, who did not understand nor test whatever software they were using. They did MC very wrongly, and their incompetence is worrying.

[@adilahmed3955]

Arbiters at CCT are dumb. Their DGT boards also get stuck every now and then. What's the point of playing fast chess OTB if you can't even broadcast the game live. They should atleast have a good camera angle for the commentary team to follow the game live. They take eternity to figure out these things during the broadcast. These people should really learn a thing or two from the old Chess24 team or the St. Louis broadcasters.

[@jacksarkisian]

i have noticed that the DGT boards are just awful at Chess.com events. you can get away with it in Classical matches but not in Rapid or Blitz. FIDE actually signed an exclusivity deal with DGT for the next 4 years, and by the looks of things the company has no intention of fixing the obvious technical faults in their boards. DGT (the company) have also patented the innerworkings of the board, making it very difficult for other companies to create their own DGT board to compete with them. so not just a Chess.com issue, but other broadcasts like St. Louis are much more efficient at troubleshooting problems it seems.

[@dr.floridamanphd]

@@jacksarkisian I remember when IBM was heavily involved with making smart boards back in the 90s. It would be nice to see a competent hardware company like IBM get back in the business again.

[@kerkertrandov459]

​@@jacksarkisian why would it be very difficult? Just use another mechanism, its not rocket science

[@karangupta4978]

I support this concern, could have been a very different story if somehow that affected the expected result... Arbitars need to do a better job

[@jacksarkisian]

100%, in a more complex position i would be more understanding of their blind trust in the computer. but with the simplicity of the position it just doesn't hurt to double check for yourself even if it takes an extra minute.

[@AykhanChess13]

Fun fact:There are no bottlers in Chess championship tour just pike Tottenham

[@jacksarkisian]

no one can compete with Tottenham's bottling ability

[@AykhanChess13]

@jacksarkisian Qarabagh:🗿

[@tiburd7]

Definitely not just a one-off: The fact that it happened once means it can (and eventually will) happen again, until the underlying cause of the problem is identified and fixed. Or we can enter the world of make-believe and "wish" it won't recur...

[@rhwing5095]

The fact that they incorrectly declined the 3-fold repetition, gave Maxime extra time, and all Magnus did in response was shrug shows the level Magnus is at. I think the computer could have told them the sky was falling and they'd believe it. Far too much blind trust in computers these days and not enough self-trust.

[@BB-wb9lv]

How do we know the arbiters relied on the computer to tell them there was no threefold repetition? Isn't it possible they came to that conclusion on their own?

[@ryanrimando09]

I was also looking for this comment. It's seems more possible that the arbiters came to their conclusion on their own.

[@jacksarkisian]

i saw somewhere that the game was broadcasted on Norweigan television & they confirmed it was an error in the DGT software. not 100% though, could be possible that it was entirely human error but i would hope that level of incompetence isn't possible at this level of arbitration.

[@aquirick]

​​@@jacksarkisian You don't contradict Magnus if a computer doesn't support you (and even then it's pretty stupid)

[@radscorpion8]

@@aquirick and David Howell. They should have reviewed the footage at least

[@mente3v351]

In otb klassik chess you need to write your move down stop the clock get the arbiter and only then play the move thats lead to 3times repetition thats why the Arbiter Played Nd8 for Magnus, you cant make the move first and then stop the clock and claim the repetiton thats illegal because when you moved its your opponents turn

[@simohayha6031]

Why did she move the knight? Almost seems like sabotage.

[@jacksarkisian]

my best guess is that Magnus playing a move was needed for the DGT to properly update. not 100% sure though as i'm just basing that off my own experiences with DGT boards.

[@radscorpion8]

computers are fine but they should've had some way to go back and rewatch what happened, to verify. If David Howell and Magnus are agreeing it was a 3 fold repetition then they need to have some way to double-check

[@deuriul3561]

Honestly, the program that would calculate, if there was the 3 fold repetition doesn't even seem that hard to make. I don't knkw what are they using, and how they got it to work incorrectly

[@happydagger2953]

Why did the knight move?

[@sebastiandierks7919]

5:14 It's definitely not the engine's fault for not recognizing the repetition, that's virtually impossble. It must have been user error.

[@jafulton89]

It's bigger than a chess problem. We are at the point now where everyone will blindly trust AI answers to questions even when they are giving incorrect information, paid advertising disguised as "science" or blatant propaganda and biased answers. Multiple GMs and the best chess player on Earth all say it's a 3 fold repetition and we trust the computer instead. "Brawndo, It's got what plants crave!".

[@rcj5410]

600 Elo Arbiters

[@cheya111]

@5:00 It is not true the game was drawn by agreement. Magnus won after MVL made a mistake.

[@jacksarkisian]

MVL did make a mistake, but it was arguably easier to force the draw than play for the win for Magnus, so he played on for a draw. you can see the result here: www.chess.com/events/2024-champions-chess-tour-finals-round-robin-stage/games

[@cheya111]

@@jacksarkisian Thanks for clarifying. I watched it live and felt MVL resigned.

[@infomatters.]

Thank you Mr Sark for the daily dose of Chess update

[@michaeltellurian825]

It's not "Roy Lopez", it's "Ruy Lopez". 1:54

[@jacksarkisian]

yeah i know, both of those words just sound identical in an Australian accent unless you massively exaggerate the pronunciation haha

[@SlayerOfTheDamned]

So Magnus would’ve had to move his Knight into the same position to have made the game into a threefold? Interesting.

[@CrazyLinguiniLegs]

No, that’s incorrect. And that’s not what he said in the video. The threefold repetition occurred with MVL’s last move. The arbiter had to move Magnus’ knight to update the computer software; Magnus didn’t need to move his knight for the threefold rep.

[@floum22]

it really depends on Magnus' claim. My guess is that he claimed that Nd8 will repeat the position for the third time. Right or wrong, he's then committed to play the move.

[@CrazyLinguiniLegs]

@@floum22 they showed the position that was repeated three times in the video. It happened with MVL’s last move. It had nothing to do with Magnus moving (or intending to move) his knight.

[@karl8731]

Is that a lil peep picture behind you?

[@escapedlunatic27]

That's bizarre. Couldn't Carlsen have just identified the three points in the game where the position had been repeated to substantiate his claim?

[@jacksarkisian]

in a position where Magnus felt he might struggle to continue holding the draw he definitely would've challenged the arbiters decision. my guess is in the 2 minutes it took to come to a decision, Magnus realized how straightforward the draw was and didn't bother.

[@curio78]

The position was dead drawn, any alternative move by maxime would have been an immediate losing move.

[@DonSunsetAtDawn]

The claim was incorrect. The position repeated three times, but it has to be the position "after" Carlsen's proposed move that has to be the repeated position in otb chess. Only in online chess is the position on the board the one that is repeated. Carlsen had made different knight moves, so couldn't show a move that would claim the threefold repetition.

[@rKaraa]

can someone tell me why everyone is wearing headsets, are they listening to music or?

[@elijahroseberry842]

They seem to be listening to music or white noise.

[@floum22]

There are two ways to claim a draw : either you claim that the last move made by your opponent makes it a threefold, or you claim that your next move will make it a threefold. From what we can see, it would make sense that Magnus used the latter and claimed that Nd8 will make a draw and was wrong (I haven't checked the game though). Edit: After checking the game, as far as I can tell, Nd8 was a threefold, mistakes happen even on the big stage I guess. Nice it did not affect the result.

[@jzs5080]

¿Doblador automatico?

[@leonardsmith9870]

Did the arbiters comment on their wrongful rejection at all? Can you imagine if Magnus went on to lose because of it? The whole tournament would've changed.

[@hermannbjorgvin]

I've run these kind of live tournaments before, there's a tool you can you to monitor repetitions very easily. But even still if a player claims a repetition you should always check it manually.

[@NotTheWheel]

My old Chessmaster game could tell you if there was a three fold repetition. It could even had the Draw by 50 rule :)

[@chesneytube1]

Unfortunately arbiters aren't (former) 2700+ GM's like Howell

[@artificercreator]

Magnus won over the computer

[@Zwellop]

"Controversy"

[@Cononized]

Where’s Hikaru and Niemann? 😂

[@Pre4xes_]

Didn’t qualify ig

[@Skinnyriver]

Claiming draw after Non-consecutive position repeats is a dumb rule anyways

[@RBG9000]

Tanya getting commentary gigs is the biggest controversy of all

[@martyshwaartz971]

Louder is better, obviously. It’s called the Bill Burr method.

[@backseatsamurai]

I could listen to Tanyas accent all day everyday for eternity. Sublime.

[@SR-fs2fd]

Canty is hitting that. Naroditsky used to before.

[@Atlas_21]

Her screeching loud voice makes it hard to follow any game without muting the thing out of frustration.

[@ahmadburhanhabibi]

They just want to see Magnus plays 😂 on serious note though that is concerning

[@nathanrey]

This has absolutely nothing to do with computers.

[@Guitare_picking]

The problem is not the computer... it's the humans using it.

[@wolfgangrausch1609]

Eine Zugwiederholung ist keine Stellungswiederholung. Magnus reklamiert zu den Stellungen nach dem Zug 50, 54 und 56! Der Unterschied zwischen Zug- und Stellungswiederholung zeigt sich in den Zugnummern. Zwischen den Stellungen nach den Zügen 50 und 54 müssen wohl weitere Züge geschehen sein, die aber trotzdem zur Stellungswiederholung führten.

[@Rumpael]

what is your point

[@wolfgangrausch1609]

@ Read and you will see. It‘s the difference between repetition of moves vs positions …

[@Rumpael]

@@wolfgangrausch1609 a game is drawn by a threefold repetition of positions. what is your point?

[@emperorsascharoni9577]

Zug Wiederholung gibts garnicht nur die Stellung ist relevant und egal ob dazwischen Züge waren.

[@wolfgangrausch1609]

@ The man in the video talked always about repetition of moves. The rules say clearly, it‘s the repetition of positions …

[@doctorpanigrahi9975]

Magnus hid some vibrating Beads

[@gabrielkellysantos8945]

BRO? Is that lil peep on the photo behind you?

[@jacksarkisian]

yesss hahahaha its a vinyl for one of his albums

[@golddddus]

After all, it was a dead draw. Gentlemanship seems to have died with modern chess.😎

[@robzijlstra1277]

Computers only execute code written by humans. So at the end of the day, it’s always human error.

[@jackhargreaves1911]

Stupid format chess will always produce stupid chess…

[@itzallai2397]

Hold on....A guy who has memorised basically all his games and the analysis to all those games is wrong about a position that occured 2 minutes ago? LMAOO

[@ijexcmos8153]

Remove tania! 😅

[@BharatXtreme]

why..jealous? lmao

[@ahmed.abdelaleem]

Waaa waaaa

[@blxrryFace]

Why?

[@hyp3raimz]

Super cringe for the sport of chess we are our worst enemy 😂

[@andrewmoonbeam321]

Is the fish the small man? Not a biggy. Kurt Cobain?

[@biratdatta]

I knew it was coming!

[@ankur7796]

bro u need to get some sleep

[@MasterAeonFayth]

Good video

[@theinvisibleman-e8v]

Human error

[@BharatXtreme]

insane..clearly shows the IQ level and professionalism of the arbiter.

[@oostapchuk]

Tania and all the rest are such a circus.

[@jacksarkisian]

i actually quite like them specifically for Rapid tournaments, i would much rather have lesser knowledgeable commentators in James Canty & Tania Sachdev because they make up for it in personality. commentators like Judit Polgar and Jon Ludvig Hammer are just too slow and particular to commentate on Rapid games in my opinion - they're much better suited to Classical commentary.

[@BharatXtreme]

cry more

[@destinys_child]

@@jacksarkisian Really well put!

[@Goblonium]

@@jacksarkisian I want Leko, I can literally imagine his high-pitched voice when commentating in an exciting time scramble and I love it.

[@Richardlizhu]

@@jacksarkisianI think many people’s problem with Tania is that for some reason her audio isn’t balanced the same and it’s louder and is a bit grating on the ears

[@aristodemosii.1980]

third

[@jacksarkisian]

🥉🥉

[@radscorpion8]

@@jacksarkisian wow i've never seen this before XD

[@SarpreetSingh-b5o]

first

[@jacksarkisian]

🥇🥇

[@radscorpion8]

@@jacksarkisian lol

[@edsh0tmachin3]

second

[@jacksarkisian]

🥈🥈

[@radscorpion8]

@@jacksarkisian hahaha

[@barondabraio9629]

Fifth

[@SubscribersChallenge-he1pm]

🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍

[@shreyosengupta5742]

fourth

[@EmFanForLife]

first