The Greatest Rivalry that Never Existed

[@TheCheckmateCorner]

Before you comment, No hate intended to either side. They both exceptional in their respective ways. This video is looking over the popular rivalry narrative that some chess fans hold...

[@BarnabyG]

no hate intended....... *cherry picks on paper statistics* LOL (I know Magnus's achievements are indisputably greater than Hikaru's in chess, Hikaru says this aswell, however Hikaru posses a challenge to Magnus in more time controls than anyone else)

[@LympyDownunder]

popular narrative? I'm guessing from Hikaru's streams, not from the wider chess fans

[@KobeBryantt237]

It's fun though 😂

[@nabanitasaha7941]

Magnus is Magnus.. Magnus cannot be compared with anyone (also not hikaru) ..

[@gerardofb2994]

Sure body

[@chinmayrastogi3536]

In their 40 games, Magnus realized and understood Hikaru's weaknesses while Hikaru understood Magnus has no weakness.

[@ibraheemkhan6660]

Yeah but Hikaru’s point is that his weakness is in the opening, which could have well been solved by bluffing. His bad openings could be perceived as preparation so they would divert to a sideline and just play normal chess where Hikaru’s weakness is gone. But knowing that Hikaru doesn’t actually dedicate time for opening is different than thinking that Hikaru doesn’t actually prepare like other top players do. Also, Hikaru did play some professional poker, so he values bluffing, which is interesting tbh

[@wire5246]

@@ibraheemkhan6660 hikaru has a very real mental block with magnus, he may of gotten over it some but I really truly doubt that magnus realized some big weakness that night. Hikaru thought magnus did and that was enough.

[@ibraheemkhan6660]

@@wire5246 yeah possibly.

[@dhanurs8085]

🥶🥶🥶

[@JW-qd3ol]

bruhhh. real

[@thetimebinder]

The only rivalry between Magnus and Hikaru is which one GothamChess loves more.

[@acpliego]

Levy once said Anish

[@thegorn]

He would be the receiver of any of them

[@zilvoxidgod]

It's the rivalry for which will win his hand in marriage

[@posadist681]

@@zilvoxidgod oh 😳

[@Misfer-fn7qq]

​@@zilvoxidgod sadly for them, they are already late

[@mp9305]

nobody has ever considered this a rivalry the way you're describing it (ala Nadal v Federer and Messi v Ronaldo). Magnus is way ahead of the rest. If anything, there is a rivalry between Nakamura and Caruana for second place/best US player.

[@JustAPokemonCommentingOnVideos]

naka vs fabi is a heavily underrated rivalry

[@slayerxyz2463]

In recent times ? Maybe Overall? Fabi is level above hikaru, it is not even remotely close lol

[@akashnadar1449]

But naka kinda owns fabi​@@JustAPokemonCommentingOnVideos

[@HarpreetSingh-xg2zm]

@@slayerxyz2463naka has beaten fabi in candidates and Norway. It is a close rivalry

[@ndnd7614]

@@slayerxyz2463 Only if you are considering classical chess in the past.. Recently in classical Hikaru has gotten the better of fabi.

[@miljann98]

They are rivals in a category called "Who's the most popular chess player today"

[@sequinmichellefootdoggy622]

Gothamchess

[@miljann98]

@@sequinmichellefootdoggy622 On youtube? Yes. Overall? No.

[@D0rlisok]

My grandma would know who Carlsen is, but would have no idea about nakamura

[@JanDarkyy]

​@@D0rlisokthat would depend in where you leave , magnus is not that famous i have asked many persons out of curiosity and nobody knows who magnus carlsen is (tho many knew who Kasparof was)

[@jaybee4288]

Chess seems more popular than ever due to the internet, but that’s misleading. In terms of mainstream appeal/knowledge of players it peaked in the 90’s with Kasparov and that IBM stuff. More people on the street remember Deep Blue than know of Karlssen.

[@wattacoolguy]

Nobody seriously thinks Magnus has any rivals, but you’ll always see it because they need people to watch. Without the appearance that Magnus could MAYYYYYBE lose, nobody would watch because we already know Magnus is most likely going to win.

[@bencheevers6693]

Cept Hans 🤣

[@Nafim-kv6rg]

Braindead​@@bencheevers6693

[@yusufyusuf1998]

You talk like magnus wins all of his tournaments

[@Nafim-kv6rg]

@@yusufyusuf1998 majority of the time, he does

[@Ayatron34]

Hikaru does rival Magnus in online speed chess formats.

[@sazzowl_gaming8203]

The fact that one person can be so far ahead in a purely skill based game with such a complexity is absolutely insane

[@lukeinvictus]

To be honest it being purely skill based is an advantage in terms of being statistically dominant. Luck makes things noisier

[@dxfvgyhjh]

@@lukeinvictus are you sure about that

[@lukeinvictus]

@@dxfvgyhjh yeah, I mean if we take the idea to it’s extreme conclusion: could someone be a dominant slots player?

[@tin-slayer-3368]

​@@lukeinvictus casino

[@thirstly]

​​@@lukeinvictus depending on how many game parameters can be controlled by the player, yes!

[@mdahsanhabib4693]

Let's put it this way: 1.Magnus 2.Late Magnus 3.Drunk Magnus 4.Caruana/Hikaru

[@uday_mvp]

DRUNK MAGNUS > LATE MAGNUS🙆

[@jay-sin-tv]

Let's fix this: 1. Drunk Magnus 2. Late Magnus 3. Magnus 4. Fabiano Marijuana 5. Hikky "I don't care" Nakamura

[@HDM2800]

5: blind Magnus (if Fabi and Hikaru are in a bad day, he can fight for the 4th)

[@justchessy]

go back to playing 600 elo games kid

[@dumflame]

What about Shirtless Magnus?

[@gcollins1992]

To characterize anyone as Magnus' rival would be silly. Using the tennis example, Roger Federer ended with 20 Grand Slams, Rafa with 22, and Novak (unmentioned but relevant) with 24 and possibly more to come. In 2009, Magnus won his first World Championship (Blitz). Magnus has 5 Classical, 5 Rapid, and 7 Blitz World Chess Championships. "Rivals" in the same 2009-Present timeframe. - Vishy Anand has 1 Classical and 1 Rapid. - Sergey Karjakin has 1 Rapid and 1 Blitz. - Alexander Grischuk has 2 Blitz. - Ding Liren has 1 Classical, which he wouldn't have been eligible to compete for if Magnus chose to defend. - 7 other players have 1 Rapid OR Blitz championship. - Hikaru, and for that matter Fabi and Nepo have 0 World championships of any format. This means that across all 3 formats since 2009, Magnus has 17 championships, and the entire rest of the field has 14.

[@6121FRobotics]

Really puts it into perspective how far ahead of everyone else he is

[@arjunbt9580]

Anand has 5 classical

[@LasCosasDeBrunin]

@@arjunbt9580 But not while Magnus was active. Lasker has more too, but you wouldn't compare him, as his achievements are from a different era.

[@gcollins1992]

@@arjunbt9580 agreed -- but I limited the timeframe to "after Magnus' first championship" so that it wouldn't be counting the time Magnus hadn't yet fully come into himself. To go back to the tennis example, it wouldn't be fair to compare 1998 Federer to 1998 Djokovic or Nadal. They weren't in the same league yet.

[@acpliego]

Hikaru has 1 Fisher random world championship, Wesley has 1 as well . Just to be precise

[@zachrichardson7099]

"One of the craziest nights in chess history" *literally just two dudes playing chess*

[@heliosho]

I was on birthday parties that were like this and I did not even play back then 😭 (one of the guys now has a higher rating than levy lol)

[@therapier950]

Watch Sherlock Holmes Game of Shadows

[@agustinfernandez5115]

lmao what game of chess is not that when boiled down hahaha you are right though.

[@jawadjihan641]

And out of nowhere someone suddenly sacrifices a ROOOOOOOOOOK🔥

[@chiepah2]

They say the same thing when it's just two dudes punching each other too.

[@chinter]

just gotta repost Maguns' paraphrase (15:24). 1) Magnus 2) No Rivals 3) Hikaru

[@Navin4061]

This is exactly why this video exists. People think Hikaru is the next best player after Magnus this generation but in reality, he's like 3-4 after Fabi, Levon and early 2010s Vishy.

[@Dmgx32]

@@Navin4061 hikaru is above fabi in rating and in skill

[@HexxuSz]

@@Dmgx32 you have to be joking fabi is way better in classical

[@leqitnoel4210]

@@Dmgx32he isnt in classic. Even Magnus said Fabiano is better then Hikaru

[@acow1385]

@@HexxuSzHikaru just became the second highest rated player surpassing Fabiano a couple days ago.

[@CrazyLinguiniLegs]

That late night matchup gave Nakamura just as much of an opportunity to study Magnus’ chess as it gave Magnus to study Nakamura’s chess.

[@jonathangarcia273]

But Magnus its more talented

[@batcrow6224]

The reasoning (though I think it is a bit flawed) is that Magnus has been THE chess player, better than everyone else in every single part of the game from beginning to end and playing varied openings. Hikaru has been described as a more wild card type of player where he will pull out unexpected wins despite being weaker (only when you compare to other top 5 players) in opening variety/midgame. Get used to what the wild card pulls out and he becomes easier to beat.

[@Harishiv18]

That matchup did few things: Magnus learnt Hikaru’s weaknesses Hikaru learnt that Magnus has no weakness

[@PowerK1]

@@batcrow6224 Make sense

[@autosemimatic6071]

the main thing that he mentioned is magnus got a better idea of which types of positions hikaru struggles in as well as his opening weakness, and based on that answer i think its pretty safe to say that magnus won an overwhelming majority of the matches which probably means hikaru couldnt take much away from how to beat magnus from the games they played. Is it cope? absolutely, he wouldnt be anywhere near magnus no matter what in real otb events. To say that they got the same advantage though is debatable.

[@dessertstorm7476]

Rivals in terms of biggest stars in chess. But Magnus is way ahead of everyone not jsut Hikaru.

[@ChessKing-ev8km]

He has more championships than everyone else combined, in all catagories, since 2009. 17 for Magnus, combined everyone elses 14

[@Reikotsu]

According to Magnus the only regret he has is not being able to play against his young self. His only actual recognized rival is himself😂

[@スガル]

The present me trains everyday to beat the tomorrow me

[@TheGurusGames]

I think Hikaru dominates the online chess sphere and that’s what is most commonly displayed through his content so it gives the viewers a skewed perspective of his standing vs magnus. It’s not close over the board, but Hikaru is actually very competitive with Magnus online iirc

[@6121FRobotics]

their match score is still positive for Magnus by a good bit, though.

[@RealChuckNorris]

@@6121FRobotics not in bullet and blitz

[@Matthew-bu7fg]

@@RealChuckNorris comparing bullet chess is like judging a swimmer by their skills to initially dive into a pool Daniel Naroditsky is amongst the "world best at bullet" but is nowhere in any other format

[@RealChuckNorris]

@@Matthew-bu7fg cry

[@jackdexter3286]

​@@RealChuckNorrisbraindead

[@sbramp]

only player who was close to Magnus was Peak Fabiano

[@varadsalunkhe9008]

Even then magnus was better by a considerable margin

[@dimadimonchyk4696]

@@varadsalunkhe9008 well, Magnus himself admited that Fabbi was close. They drew every single classic game in 2018, and Magnus only won on tie-breaks.

[@Deciverse]

​@@dimadimonchyk4696 Fabi was also 4 elo points away from surpassing Magnus during that match as well. Literally if Magnus lost one game it would've ruined the 7 year+ #1 rank streak he had at that time. Was a good time to be a chess fan

[@disrupt94]

@@dimadimonchyk4696 Karjakin actually took the lead against Carlsen in classical, and had less losses in the rapid tiebreaks compared to Caruana. It took the best year Fabi has ever had and the worst year for magnus, and even then Magnus came out on top.

[@dapasokul]

​@@disrupt94 Thats actually crazy, it took PEAK fabi and the worst year for magnus just for him to still win it

[@BarackObamaJedi]

Hikaru regretting the 40 blitz games because Magnus took the opportunity to understand his playing style, means he couldn't take the opportunity himself to understand Magnus's play. This speaks volumes, Hikaru is a tactician, Magnus a strategist; or Hikaru focuses on his own play, Magnus learns how to destroy the opponent. Now recently with Magnus learning from poker and reinventing openings from zero etc, he's doing that because he's virtually without competition, and he can try to understand chess itself outside of theory or competitors. Edit: case and point, Hikaru says he lost because he played suboptimal sidelines, means he thinks you only win with the best "orthodox" theory, safe main lines, and you win when you force the game to a position where you know for sure you're winning, from memory. Magnus plays mad gambits and sacrifices to go into the uncharted, and thinks actively of a plan in that position. He just calculates better than everybody, so if all are equally in an unknown position, he will win because his trump card is not on the board. It's the meta, the social/diplomatic side of the game, like in poker. Suboptimal play draws others into errors and you can capitalise on that. It puts you to the risk of a temporarily worse position, so it's your responsibility to manage to get something out of the gambit, and to gambit only as much as you understand how to resolve the position in your favour. Eg a complex middlegame, out of theory, where you set up a fork and you win material, paid off, all by your merit.

[@worldpeace4500]

You’re deeping it too much. It’s just an excuse Hikaru made up because of his fragile ego. He had as much of an opportunity to understand Magnus’ playing style as Magnus had to understand his. He is just the worse player out of the two, I doubt their score (14-1) would be any different without that match.

[@BarackObamaJedi]

@@worldpeace4500 i agree it's an excuse by Hikaru, we're pretty much saying the same thing. I agree also that Magnus didn't need that game to overcome him; he would have anyway, eventually. But so many games at once surely were a great opportunity, which he took. Not taking it and then complain shows Hikaru's ego and victimisation that made/makes Magnus a step above him

[@OhWaker]

This is the same reason Kasparov got the better of Karpov in their world championship matches. Kasparov just got better over time as he learned how Karpov played while Karpov couldn't really do the same vice versa

[@fangiscool1]

you're overcomplicating it. The more games played, the higher the chance of the better player winning. This is a known phenomenon and why sports often play more than 1 game to determine the champion. Hikaru knows Magnus is better, so he basically flushed his chances of ever winning consistently down the toilet.

[@ibraheemkhan6660]

Yeah but Hikaru’s point is that his weakness is in the opening, which could have well been solved by bluffing. His bad openings could be perceived as preparation so they would divert to a sideline and just play normal chess where Hikaru’s weakness is gone. But knowing that Hikaru doesn’t actually dedicate time for opening like other top players do ruins the bluffing attempt that Hikaru uses as a weapon for the opening phase. Also, Hikaru have played some serious level poker, so he values bluffing, which is interesting tbh

[@LukasDorian]

I think it is important to note that when it comes to fame you will find GothamChess close to these two especially by viewer numbers and income, which shows that online chess is some sort of a business after all that created the rivalry to draw attention to the game more than it really exists.

[@yc6018]

Magnus and Hikaru’s rivalry reminds me of Anquetil and Poulidor in 1960’s cycling world. Anquetil won the Tour de France 5 times, Poulidor never did and was 2nd 3 times and 3rd 5 times, but Poulidor was the people’s champion, the most popular rider of the race at the time.

[@jaybee4288]

Magnus far more popular than Hikaru in anything but KZbin/twitch though. Mainly because he doesn’t focus on it.

[@gabrielreinalter2269]

​@@jaybee4288Yes we are talking on KZbin though, so the voices you hear are inevitable screwed in a direction

[@danielhicks4826]

It's crazy when sports is like that history is loaded with it, it's gotta be rough for high level talented athletes and fighters to "only" be 2nd best to a rival who simply has more talent skill and luck then even they do, yet at the end of the day they are still among the best in history at what they do and so they should be grateful regardless but yeah it's just a crazy thing of the human competitive condition is all ya know.

[@yc6018]

@@danielhicks4826 Very true. Funny thing, eventhough Anquetil and Poulidor hated each other during their career, they became good friend later in their life. When Anquetil became very ill he said to Poulidor "you'll have to settle with the 2nd place again : I'm going first". Also, beside the competitive aspect, what fueled the passion of this rivalry was the oppossition of style, as a french historian noted : "Behind these two stereotypes, the public vaguely feels that two worlds are opposed, such as modernity and archaism. Both riders come from a rural environment, but they do not evolve in the same agrarian civilization. Anquetil is representative of modern agriculture. Poulidor is the figure of the “resigned peasant”, who has no illusions. Anquetil is the symbol of a speculative, enterprising market economy. He drinks whiskey, travels by plane. In the Tour as in life, he is a boss. This taste of the French in favor of “Poupou” is a nostalgic tenderness for the rural society from which they emerged in these years of rapid change. The anquetilist universe represents a cold future that they fear. Moreover, the great specialty of the Norman is the race against time: the tyranny of the hands is that of the industrial world; The Limousin is at home in the mountains, he is a man of nature: he adapts his days to the seasonal movements of the sun. He is bursting with health. Poulidor's admirers know well that Anquetil is the strongest, but the depths of his superiority freeze them; they sense the artifice, the planning, the technological preponderance…"

[@rpg_haven]

I think the double bongcloud draw was an important moment for Hikaru. It showed that Magnus finally started respecting him as a competitor. He wouldn't joke around like that with just anyone in a real game

[@ttq3661]

True

[@gcollins1992]

I also think it was important for Hikaru in a different way. I think the pandemic was super helpful to Hikaru's ability to just chill out and not take everything so deadly serious all the time. An earlier incarnation of Hikaru with the chip on his shoulder might have gotten upset rather than laughed about it.

[@gregansbootstrap5352]

@@gcollins1992I wouldn’t say that because he DEFINITELY took that bullet chess championship personal though. He freaked out on Alireza, gave a big glimpse on before pandemic Hikaru.

[@AlexanderTheGreat871]

"we are simply better than the others" ~magnus

[@SekiroEnjoyer123]

There is absolutely no rivarly, Hikaru loves to see people think like that though.

[@maloxi1472]

Making shaky assumptions about what strangers on the internet think and feel is one of the dumbest things one can do

[@jaybee4288]

He does though, you can tell and it makes sense. If people think he’s on Magnus’ level it gets him more viewers and mainstream interest. Not so many people will sub to “2nd place and so far behind the best it’s ridiculous to even mention me in the same breath as him” so this narrative they’re on the same level only benefits his streaming career, which is seemingly his main source of income these days.

[@SekiroEnjoyer123]

@@jaybee4288 ُTotally correct! The first reply is from someone who doesn't use their brain.

[@mhqa_]

​@@maloxi1472i see you don't have a clue about hikaru's fragile ego. You seem new to chess

[@HP-wk6fg]

Whenever Hikaru is asked, He always confirm that Magnus is a level above him.

[@hyacinth199x]

I think you just didn't understand that when Hikaru's fans or people call this as a rivalry, is mainly just because that they're undoubtedly the biggest stars in chess, one gained fame from his chess accolades, one from streaming so the viewership always skyrockets more than anyone else. Most of them are jokes too. Nobody in their right mind, not even me a Hikaru's fan, has ever mentioned that they're very close in terms of skills and achievements. 😂 Edit: Plus, they always seem to have this fervent intensity and passion to beat each other for years, so people are even more pumped up whenever they're matched up.

[@tintinmilou9471]

Nakamura was never part of the conversation, he didnt even face him once in the Worldchampionship, i dont get why they even talk about this

[@MatsMatsuo]

because he is popular and at times he had a rivalry, but only on online blitz tournaments, saw many finals between these two. But statiscally speaking it was never close.

[@Oldlard]

Because Hikaru is the only other player who is arguably better than Magnus at anything to do with chess, which is online blitz/bullet. That most viewers of chess see this format the most amplifies the effect beyond what it is actually worth.

[@felopateer-n9y]

@@Oldlard hikaru isnt better than magnus on online blitz and bullet , it is where hikaru is closest but he isnt better , maguns beats him by far in head up matches in both formats There is no rivalry between these two, Magnus is just way ahead of everyone ... just imagine magnus wakes up drunk , play a tournament with probably half the prep anyone did or even less, and yet crush everyone lol

[@hp9351]

@@felopateer-n9yHikaru had 5 consecutive speed chess titles

[@Oldlard]

@@felopateer-n9y nothing you said contradicts what i said. not sure why you posted.

[@EveryoneNeedsASmile]

One thing that never quite made sense to me with the 40 game match between the two: Hikaru continually talks about the weaknesses exposed in his own game, but never anything he learned about Magnus's weaknesses. It always comes up like Magnus tricked Hikaru into revealing something otherwise hidden. But they were both full participants. Why didn’t Hikaru gain anything from playing Magnus? If the answer is, "Magnus was already more solid and could focus on more information than Hikaru," then how was the aftermath anything but inevitable already?

[@Pandora_The_Panda]

Well, maybe it accelerated the process of Magnus figuring out Hikaru and really getting the better of him, whereas before, Hikaru could use more bluffs and tricks without Magnus being 100% able to capitalize on them? I dunno, just theorizing.

[@fangiscool1]

Because Magnus is better than him. Hikaru's chance of victories were upset victories. The chance of the worse player winning after playing so many games decreases substantially.

[@vicdark8807]

Cos Magnus has no weaknesses :p

[@chonchjohnch]

@@vicdark8807yes he does, base of the spine, kneecaps, major nerve clusters

[@redeyexxx1841]

​@@vicdark8807That's the point. Magnus play style is solid and positional. Hikaru play style is tactical.

[@MaskeyKamenRider]

This is considered a rivalry in the same sense that Goku vs Vegeta is considered a rivalry

[@mr.anti-hero4398]

But it's not entirely analogous. Unlike Vegeta, Hikaru was never better than Carlsen, while the Vegeta was far ahead of everyone else in the beginning, until he was overpowered.

[@quibble9003]

except everyone loves vegeta. hikaru is a pos.

[@CidGuerreiro1234]

@@mr.anti-hero4398 Vegeta was also stronger than Goku for 24 hours after leaving the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to fight Cell, since he got in before Goku. Got completely outclassed again right after that, though.

[@alfrdhrnndz]

lol ultra ego vs mui is debatable comparing magnus to hikaru is like comparing messi to neymar

[@walterfritzzz]

​@@alfrdhrnndzatleast messi and neymar was comparable at 2014-2017,even ney at 2017 was better than messi imo,at 2015 even though messi won ballon dor he was at the same level as neymar or ronaldo not better not worse

[@CodyBunker]

When Magnus is so far ahead of everyone, the people he spends the most time with are the only ones that can be considered rivals. Chess is very different especially when you have someone like Magnus

[@asmf8699]

you spoke the humbling truth to all Hikaru fans

[@Taalanos]

How come if they play each other 100 times, Magnus learns how to beat Hikaru but Hikaru doesn't learn how to beat Magnus?

[@redeyexxx1841]

That's the point. Magnus plays solid and positional chess while Hikaru plays tactical (little bit positional). So if you're to play like a 100 matches then Magnus is going to win more and more frequently with the increasing number of matches. Artemiev said that after winning a bullet event (Magnus lost to Andrew Tang in bullet) So Artemiev said that the number of matches is low so likely Magnus lost before adapting. And he said if they had 50 to 100 matches then it's definitely a Magnus win

[@chrism3790]

The only reason people even talk of a "rivalry" is because they are both the most popular players. It's definitely not because Hikaru is comparable to Magnus as a player in classical chess. Hikaru has just never been a top player in classical. He's a lot better now that he's chilling a lot more, but still nowhere near Magnus. Blitz? Sure, they're about even and miles ahead of the rest.

[@gregansbootstrap5352]

Maybe online Blitz. But over the board blitz hikaru just isn’t good at.

[@nirolf12]

Online, sure. Over the board blitz? Not even close, there's a reason Hikaru never won anything

[@Drryler]

This is like gojo vs geto, because of how far gojo is above the rest

[@Random_-th5vr]

Nah not geto, he was toe to toe with gojo for years. More like, Gojo vs todo or something

[@Sedona_FD3S]

Magnus did admit he regularly watches Hikaru’s stream to root against him. There’s that

[@resegom8148]

Shocking to see that there are people who think Magnus has a rival💀

[@shaansingh6048]

maybe if Fischer didn’t go crazy

[@bigheadrhino]

The craziest thing about Magnus’ dominance is how closely matched everyone else is to each other. There’s no clear second, at least not consistently. He’s a true outlier.

[@borpheus4651]

6:58 his face😂😂

[@yahyaj4845]

5:28 What was stopping Hikaru from understanding Magnus' style and exploiting it?

[@melzz]

While Magnus understands Hikaru weakness, Hikaru understands that Magnus has no weaknesses 😂

[@4Shaman]

Magnus is stopping that

[@moose9987]

that there is no exploit lmao

[@Raghuveer2798]

Magnus never had rivals overall. Magnus vs Hikaru is a rivalry only in blitz and bullet, especially in online chess.

[@theFalcon_1]

not even close in online chess too

[@davidsantiago7808]

Nobody talks about the fact that Ding Liren became a world champ only because magnus didnt care to enter.

[@KuroiRenge]

He also played through a gauntlet of other Super GMs. That's why.

[@alexandrefreitas9295]

There are some things that are funny to hear as a chess player/fan... like those claims that "Magnus plays psychological chess, like when he shows up late". Dude.... the only "psychological" thing that happens there is he is able to get twenty extra minutes of sleep. This doesn't affect the opponent, a professional chess player, AT ALL.

[@6121FRobotics]

exactly... this probably actually gives the opponents more of an psychological advantage since they know they're starting out with a massive time advantage.

[@MaxIronsThird]

so, you've never played chess before huh.

[@6121FRobotics]

@@MaxIronsThird I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be bothered at all if I started off with a time advantage against my opponent... obviously it would give me a better chance to win the game. I guess you would rather be the one down time though, since you think it gives a psychological advantage

[@MaxIronsThird]

@@6121FRobotics What if your oponent gets to a game late, burning half his time, then starts blitzing out every move, by move 20, you're basically matched on time and on the board, and guess what, he's way higher rated than you. Also, you had to just sit there waiting for minutes for him to come and play the game, it's disrespectful. He's basically saying that he doesn't need the time, to win against you and it also makes it awkward for you, bc you don't want your oponent to lose, just bc he was late, something might have happened to him, well at least that's how top level players feel.

[@6121FRobotics]

@@MaxIronsThird being outplayed over the board has nothing to do with psychology. If you have a massive time advantage and are unable to convert it that just means your opponent was better than you, not that they were good at "psychological chess"

[@bjoernf73]

Seriously enjoyed this - great job!

[@WarriorssoulB30]

Everyone knows magnus is a head than the rest top players especially in classical, but in rapid and blitz event where people more likely to watch, both often face eachother in final match or in the decider match of the event champion. I think this is the reason why. And i think magnus has a psychology advantage over hikaru since long time ago, because he always play worse than usual when he has to play magnus. But i think he realized this so he adapted and improved his mentality differently nowadays.

[@pRODNEYgy]

Nah, even in rapid magnus is far ahead to hikaru. The margin in blitz is closer though.

[@fangiscool1]

Hikaru doesn't play bad against Magnus. Magnus just makes it look like he's playing bad. Totally different things.

[@sergemerto256]

1:19 i thought the only way Magnus would have ranked 416th in the world would be in the womb😂

[@kilaire5463]

Keys

[@omisinghregno.6298]

Hikaru was denied glory just because he was in Magnus Era 💀

[@ManCaveGroove]

Who knows in 5 year hikaru might unlock his hidden special talent that been sleeping and need to be awaken and become world champion. Who knows anything can happen Anything can hap

[@luitze]

These documentaries are GOOOOD keep going dude ❤

[@HERIZG]

im suprise by the amount of subscribers you have i would have expected much more as this is a good quality video.

[@jonwallace6204]

I never realized that chess invented streaming. It makes so much sense before the internet was fast enough to stream video, but even in the 90s you could broadcast “a1c3” to hundreds of people and update a client side display in real time. I love how the top players in chess can be so random seeming. One of the few competitive games where the main event could be some 70 year old Soviet math genius and a 14 year old kid and it still plays out like a prize fight.

[@harrisonzhu3300]

During the midnight match: Magnus: learns Hikarus weaknesses Hikaru: learns Magnus has no weaknesses

[@ominarous]

magnus is EXACTLY that petty tbf, he very well might have done that just to spite hikaru lol

[@SaraKochanny]

Dude. That Louis Vuitton chess game easter egg is AMAZING WOW i never knew that!!! Excellent video btw

[@VoltageCowboy]

You did a great job explaining the rivalry. There is money and draw for a good fashion banter. Magnus is the GOAT and Hikaru is an incredible player who basically spring boarded chess into popularity. He deserves a lot of praise.

[@nickjohnson7866]

Magnus vs Hikaru is like the Jon Jones vs Daniel Comier of chess except one guy didn't pop for steroids this time.

[@worldpeace4500]

Nah Jones and Cormier are close in skill and have comparable resumes, did u even watch this video?

[@fangiscool1]

Daniel Cormier is a double champion and didn't lose to anyone not named "Jon Jones" for years. There's been plenty of better players than Hikaru during Hikaru's career. Fabi and Levon Aronian, just off the top of my head.

[@BadselS]

Pretty accurate comsidering Jones-Cormier wasn't close either. Jones smoked him both times

[@bizmonkey007]

That’s…not the greatest comparison

[@mirrorv7432]

bro. Great video, what a skill of storytelling! Keep it on

[@miyamotoyamazaki1760]

Magnus is a league of his own

[@pyropulseIXXI]

Magnus and Hikaru were never considered rivals, by anyone, ever

[@TruthSurge]

3:05 I'm out.

[@hydra9627]

Damn Surge, you like chess as well? That’s cool as fuck.

[@sergioparra193]

that late night chess duel is like the real life version of the zoolander walk off lmao

[@yuganderkrishansingh3733]

Magnus has been on a diff level compared to all contemporaries...Only rivalry exists in Hikaru and his fans imagination.

[@VladimirMalakhov]

Hikaru and the other top 20 super gms are around a very similar level. Magnus is a big step ahead of all of them.

[@pilgrimoftheworld]

I was 2nd best athlete and 2nd best at soccer at school, I hated the kid who was better than me. It's 30 years later and I still hate him.

[@sergemerto256]

It is actually good for chess that we have such a dominating figure like Magnus as it adds an element of wonder for normal people and even GMs. If in the next 10 years we have 10 different world champions (which is likely), then it will be a bad thing for chess overall

[@NotTheWheel]

Magnus is a man with many Rivals but no Equals.

[@gregansbootstrap5352]

Rivals are usually supposed to be close to equal. Magnus has many opponents but none are equals is a better phrase

[@MerrStudio]

4:52 - didn't Hikaru tell the exact score in this exact podcast you show here? I remember he said it, but you claim it is unknown to this day.

[@MaximBakhtin727]

poor hikaru, he had the talent to becaome world champion, he just had the bad luck to be in the magnus era

[@gregansbootstrap5352]

Kinda similar to Neymar being in the same era as Messi-Ronaldo, could’ve won so many individual awards but just outclassed by goats.

[@ir2539]

@@gregansbootstrap5352 reall

[@oooahrl4998]

Lol, he's not even in the top 5 of his generation.

[@bryanchu5379]

if not for magnus there would be an actually close rivalry between fabi and hikaru

[@lordblanck7923]

Wasnt there a young kid recently who beated magnus ?​@bryanchu5379

[@Reversely]

The rivalry existed but through online. Physically, Magnus has no rivals and everyone acknowledges that even Hikaru himself knows it's not even close. However, online chess is very different and they did become a rival in speed chess tournaments (2016, 2017, 2022, 2023) and through online ratings.

[@snakevenom4954]

Funnily enough, Messi and Ronaldo isn't a rivalry. It was Messi owning Ronaldo for years. Ronaldo would do slightly better one year and be praised. But Messi was consistent and in their primes, it's not a competition

[@TheBluePhoenix008]

I don't watch football but oh boy this comment is gonna start a war💀

[@Aaron-f-n6f]

@@TheBluePhoenix008it shouldn’t, it’s facts, anyone with a football brain will acknowledge Messi is better and it’s not even close

[@donkey_mediocre7246]

Yeah Hikaru and Ronaldo just have good pr and advertising

[@bhargavsai8014]

Bruh cr7 has won 5 ballondors to Messi's 8,atleast it's a bit close compared to hikaru who hasn't won a single championship compared to carlsen,go and get some help

[@triharders2456]

@@Aaron-f-n6f ronaldo better

[@ASMDxFTW]

i think people who compare magnus and hikaru in terms of rivalry are those who don't know anything about chess. if you know chess or if you follow the game, then you'd know it was never a rivalry

[@dreadpirateroberts2259]

It is quite amazing how this video completely disregards Fabiano Caruana , who was actually the only one who really rivalled Magnus in classical and was perhaps as good as Magnus at his peak in 2018 and also maintained a 2800+ rating for years and instead pretends as if Hikaru was the by far no.2 player in the world and the only rival to magnus.

[@crafe2305]

this videos not about him? its about the hikaru narrative

[@nanashiv2]

Hikaru dominated fabi h2h

[@aryanmishra3225]

@@nanashiv2 h2h wise magnus better than hikaru in bullet too

[@Random_-th5vr]

@@aryanmishra3225 and that is true

[@mdjahidbiswas2060]

Magnus Himself said He has no rival and we all know this.

[@manjilmanjil3003]

You can compare him with Legends like Bobby Fischer but I don't see a rival for him in this generation. Hope the young generation beats his ass in future although they will not be fighting prime Magnus at that moment but the question will be if they can dominate like Magnus .

[@K-Moh]

You got my sub broh. This was good.

[@flatbread42]

One of my earliest memories in the chess community was watching Levy recap the Meltwater finals. I had no clue their history and I know the classical score is incredibly lopsided, but in rapid and blitz it’s so awesome to see them play. I love watching them and they will always be rivals in my eyes, especially since the new Hikaru is a different breed according to him.

[@craftykev]

A great perspective on a supposed rivalry. Well done

[@C-OBrien]

Hikaru is one of the few players that on his absolute best day can MAYBE beat Magnus on his worst day, there was never a rivalry and no one ever thought there was

[@Random_-th5vr]

No, the maybe doesn't exist here. I would say, this maybe exists for fabi and perhaps nepo but hikaru is just not there in classical

[@louisazraels7072]

Except for blitz of course

[@damnjesse7881]

"craz iest nights in chess history" is an insane title to have lololol

[@Savirezz]

It's kinda sad when you think about it. Hikaru just born at the wrong time.

[@vincenzofranchelli2201]

not really, what time would be better, kasparov wouldve beaten him too

[@Kei-ev8wn]

​@@vincenzofranchelli2201 not really, i thinl the whole thing about being world champion is that you ascend from now on, if kasparov lost to him a single time it would be enough to hikaru stabilizes himself on top and ascend

[@azure-v3d]

The only people who could call themselves Carlsens rival are either long dead or senile.

[@jinametarasu5117]

Its because 1000s elo players and below see hikaru as the king of chess without seeing that magnus is the reigning god

[@Hacienda_27]

The Machine vs The Calculator is always A good watch

[@andrewzhang8512]

Hikaru and magnus should be close rivals in bligz iirc

[@learnerbetter9872]

They are not though Magnus is far ahead

[@Makot0214]

Lmao not even close

[@andrewzhang8512]

yeah nvm i was high when i made that comment 3am braincells

[@joebazooks]

magnus said it best at one point when somebody was comparing the two of em. just look at the results. hikaru is one of the best speed chess players, but magnus still outperforms him even in speed chess

[@julianpuscikowski]

only player who has a legit claim to have a real rivalery with Magnus is Fabiano

[@vegancoke6637]

Yes!!

[@nimitsharma4476]

nakamura beat fabi so many times naka and magnus is greatest riivalry

[@thirstforknowledge._]

Prime Fabiano was a beast at that time but such a pity he had to encounter against prime Magnus

[@julianpuscikowski]

@@nimitsharma4476 you must have negative knowlage. Fabiano is the only player who has basically gotten to one game difference in terms of rating (2835 vs 2832 in 2018). Has been world no. 2 for the longest and has played most games with Magnus. Not to mention he is the only player to never lose a classical game against Magnus in the world championship (Nakamura was unable to qualify) and was basically on the verge of beating him. Fabiano clears Nakamura

[@lordtouchme77]

​​​@@julianpuscikowski that might be true but fabiano has been losing to nakamura on both classical and blitz time formats especially fabiano are currently on a losing streak in classical (he already lost 4/5 times to hikaru in recent years), so saying him clear nakamura is not 100% correct since nakamura play in recent years have been improving compared to fabiano.

[@notoverlyacerbic9574]

Great doc,loved it! I am a huge Hikaru fan but in terms of greatness Magnus is stands alone on a mountain of supremacy.. Hikaru on the other hand is the king of the human players.

[@Nadie1789]

Honestly, after all the testimonies about Hikaru being an ahole to many other GMS (quoting Eric Hansen: "everyone has a Hikaru story"), I think HE was Sauron, and not Magnus lmao

[@quibble9003]

​@BlinzerOmegait shouldnt matter. he a grownaxx man.

[@quibble9003]

@BlinzerOmega subjectively you can value whatever you like. objectively it still doesnt matter

[@karezaalonso7110]

Great synopsis. If you could please link the full video to each of the clips, that'd be great

[@Zulu-xe9zm]

Magnus is way ahead that no one can rival him 😶

[@nossenkanter]

"Exactly correct, Magnum Carlos was never close to the streamer I am." - Naka

[@lucazolk862]

So the Messi vs Ronaldo of chess

[@muhammadmasud223]

But here nobody is helping magnus to achieve anything😂

[@rustergyt]

"For a great mind, nothing is little" - Sherlock Holmes

[@lord_haven1114]

They are pretty darn close in blitz chess, but definitely not classical.

[@oliviercolletaz5841]

magnus won 6 blitz world championships grischuk won 2 liem, mvl and karjakin won 1 hikaru finished second twice

[@Volvandese]

I think of it like how the Yankees and Red Sox were for decades: rivals where one side always wins

[@ExplodingSkull-n5y]

The rivalry is in the sense that both magnus and hikaru are polarising ends for different tiers of fans. Hikarus fans are more loyal, magnus fans love him because he is the best

[@learnerbetter9872]

This is bs Stop inventing $hit, there is no rivalry

[@strek45]

​@@learnerbetter9872Lmao. Rivalry because "Hikaru has loyal fans". In what world is that a rivalry?😂😂

[@maheshdawani]

not at all dont talk rubbish,today i saw how much loyal fans hikaru has got as he is getting trolled for his behaviour,to be fair hikaru dont even have much fans,on the other magnus is the most famous personality in chess history

[@Atlas92936]

Hikaru is that underdog prodigy that everyone roots for but somehow still doesn’t get gold

[@LscottGD]

to be honest, naka, fabi, wesley so, karjakin, and maxime lagrave are all pretty much the same skill level and tied for second (although if we talk at their peak fabi is clearly the next best, generally speaking he is on the same level as many of the others, especially if you include other time controls, which i am counting for my argument)

[@raqig7511]

and yes, Magnus is different, he is like the beloved of Caissa, he has a serious and big motivation to play chess with all his presence and spirit, that's the difference between Magnus and all other players

[@SekiroEnjoyer123]

Does Hikaru seriously think if he didn't play that late night match against Magnus, he would have any chance to overthrow Magnus at some point? Bro's delusional!

[@SekiroEnjoyer123]

@terrarossa-tk6zu that’s also false in classical time format. The problem is that Magnus is a beast. The only way other people might have a chance against him is he gets much worse.

[@nickblood8503]

This is a great video on some history I never knew about. Fantastic stuff!

[@jasondonovan7981]

Well, technically Hikaru has achieved a world championship, if we count the fischer random world championships he has won. Although, only the 2022 one was under FIDE.

[@Matthew-bu7fg]

you can't christen something a "world championship" that was essentially a closed shop between about 6 players

[@jinametarasu5117]

Fischer random cannot be counted as a formal tournament as its more of a fun game than a serious fide bonafide tournament, due to the fischer random’s randomness it completely disqualify it self as a fair and competitive tournament. Thats like saying toy race car driving is equivalent to f1 racing

[@ligayaphotocinema]

Magnus is the Michael Jordan of Chess.

[@qururox]

It's actually the same as Messi and Ronaldo, while people compare them, Messi is just way ahead of anyone else (won the most Ballon D'Ors, the most Golden Boots, won every big trophy possible in football, the player with the most goal contributions "G/A" in history of football)

[@alberteinstein2291]

nah ronaldo still has stuff like most goals,ucls,uefa potys and stuff...meanwhile theres not a single (considerable) metric where hikaru is greater than magnus

[@talibalilm1690]

Lol , Ronaldo beats Messi in most high level individual stats , just look at the year to year basis of champions league individual stats . you mentioned your ballon dors , the fact that there’s a Messi ballon dor meme speaks for itself. winning a world cup is a team game wasn’t just Messi , Argentina had a top squad. Messi not even best player in Argentina history

[@XDXDXD-h5e]

imo Messi is better than Ronaldo yes but not as big as a margin as Magnus - Hikaru prime Madrid Ronaldo in the UCL is just something else, all those UCL titles speak for itself, the man scored so many goals even generational talents like Mbappe and Haaland would not likely able to catch up

[@aanuiwueze48]

@@talibalilm1690 Name the high level stats then😆. Nigga is acting like the Champions League is the only competition. Why not just compare their outputs year on year?

[@Delatroxx]

no its not. they were actually very even 2016/2017. they were actually close. it was actrually a rivalry

[@ItachiUchiha-mh8hn]

This one of the best documentaries I've watched on ch3ss.