Jacob is a "Nice Guy" | TBWB: Eclipse Review Part 3

[@aurolaf]

Forgot to mention it but I love how Krimson casually call Edward 'Ed' like he is his ex-best friend from high school

[@Acidfrog475]

Yup. Threw me off guard initially, but I've grown to love it!

[@IIARROWS]

Why wasting more time? Hell, let's go with "Jac" next.

[@Onewingerdraven]

Remember how everyone calls Onisicuck "Greg" ?

[@Productions547]

Vicky is very funny too. He knows them so personally 😂

[@TheHeroOfTomorrow]

Ed Jac n Belly

[@snelldor1474]

The Twilight series. The full definition of: “I expected nothing from you but holy fuck.”

[@onelovelylilidiot4959]

The bar was so low it was on the ground. Stephanie Meyer somehow dug a hole under it

[@bigchungusstarscream7319]

@@onelovelylilidiot4959 🤣

[@katierandall9191]

I expected nothing and I'm still disappointed!

[@slevinchannel7589]

He's worse than a Nice Guy. And she aint much better. Their relationship is so toxic that you LEGIT wonder hard about 'Did the Author knew what she was writing or not? Is this intentional?!P'... Honestly, a really bad Romance in a really bad Francchise.

[@samuelbarber6177]

@@onelovelylilidiot4959 no, the bar was so low, it was in the centre of the planet and somehow she still sank lower! And I don’t even mean “rose in China” because based on how the Earth is a sphere, that would actually be an improvement.

[@maxthepaladin2147]

Imagine Twilight but somewhere along the plot (that forced kiss thing could be the breaking point) Charlie decides to go full Van Helsing on both suitors for all the harm they did to Bella

[@BrainWitchSiv]

Now that, I would pay to see.

[@SimonCarl93]

I think you've already put more thought into the world that the author did.

[@thegayghost872]

Now I want to see a vampire romance novel where the human protag’s parents are vampire hunters

[@thepineyapple]

The legend of Van Charlie

[@andrewb6194]

*Goes full Belmont on both Everyone knows a Vampires biggest weakness is a whip!

[@thefruitsong]

Rosalie's backstory gets WORSE if you read the illustrated guide. Not only are vampires minds FROZEN IN THE STATE THEY WERE AT TIME OF DEATH, but he also changed Rosalie with the intent of giving her to Edward as a partner. So a victim of gang rape and murder is forever frozen in that state, and then basically changed so she can be given to someone else.

[@anib8863]

That is awful. WHY DID THEY FEEL THE NEED TO GIVE HER THAT BACKSTORY????

[@rebellyanmagic6409]

@@anib8863 Because Meyer is a literary sadist, and Rosalie the blonde princess gets the worst of her hatred.

[@ariaalexandria3324]

I keep screaming about this, and rarely does anyone pay attention. I’m glad to see that at least someone else out there is aware of this atrocity. This makes Rosalie’s complaint about not being given a choice especially horrific. Carlisle also changed Esme to be a partner for himself...after she tried to kill herself in her grief over her child’s death. So a gang-rape victim and a grieving mother who wanted to die. Perfect people to change to be sex partners without their consent. And then Edward, who she was a gift for, rejected her. She was spoiled, and we know that’s his mindset since he’s so concerned about Bella’s “virtue.” He clearly prizes virginity until marriage, and Rose was spoiled goods.... This is why Rose being jealous of Bella since Edward rejected her is actually sad. She was turned to be a gift for someone who didn’t want her, making turning her entirely pointless. Time and again, all power was stripped from her, and all the worth she was allowed to have was stripped when she was raped. Krimson’s off about her being a hypocrite. Emmett was saved after a bear attack, but not with the intention of him being her lover. As far as canon, their love came naturally without any intention. The consent Rose didn’t get was that she was to be offered as a sex toy for someone without her having any input on it.

[@zaramikazuki8374]

@@ariaalexandria3324 I do think Krimson's claims of her being hypocritical are still valid as I don't think Emmett ever gave permission to be saved or turned. Though obviously, the intensity/severity of the claim is wildly different as was the rationale behind saving them. Sure, neither of them gave consent, but Rosalie's case is obviously far, far worse than Emmett's, given everything we know of Emmett (which is not very much, tbh). But other than that, I totally agree with you. To be honest, Rosalie might be the person in the main cast that I like the most - she's very strong for being able to survive with everything and continuing to go forward. Her fixation on Bella's baby in Breaking Dawn was something I could understand from her perspective... and honestly thought it kind of low for Bella to manipulate Rosalie into protecting her by using that trauma (though Bella certainly had the justification given that Edward wanted an abortion at first)... but that's Breaking Dawn territory so I'm stopping there.

[@madamefluffy4788]

@@rebellyanmagic6409 Rosalie - and Leah (ditched by her boyfriend and later forced to hear her ex' s thoughts over how happy her cousin makes him, finds she's infertile after she becomes a shapeshifter and is largely shunned by the rest of the pack for being a bitch- even though her bitchiness is more than justified).

[@trinaq]

I don't care if Jacob imprinting on Renesmee was involuntarily, it still doesn't make it any LESS creepier to fall in love with your unrequited crush's infant daughter! 🤢

[@d4peters86]

Seriously wtf was Meyer thinking??

[@firefly56embers33]

Ok WTF

[@spiderlily723]

Actually, he never had crush on Bella. He just imprinted in the egg-cell that would become Renesmee (yes, really).

[@afwhite888]

@@spiderlily723 Wait, dont egg-cells last only for 12-24 hours after ovulation?

[@RoninCatholic]

Yes. One thing is that being a _person_ means you always have the option to _not_ act on your sexual impulses. Maybe he can't help being attracted to the infant, but he _can_ exile himself away from her and her family for the rest of his life.

[@hanyuu05]

In regard to Charlie's character assassination, my theory is that, like Jacob in New Moon, readers liked Charlie who hated Edward for all of the right reasons you mentioned. But because Meyer clearly wanted Edward and Bella's relationship to be the main focus and be seen as the epitome of love, she had to make Charlie unlikable, similar to what she did with Jacob's character. If her readers liked anyone BUT Bella/Edward (to the point where they're rooting for them instead of her ideal couple) she'll break character consistency in the next story just so they would be the better option.

[@alsinakiria]

The incest implication of what you just said makes Twilight even more horrifying.

[@zaramikazuki8374]

Absolutely. I'm entirely confident that Meyer intended for Jacob to remain a cool platonic friend who helps support and is kind. And that Charlie hated Edward for all the right reasons - that New Moon got both Jacob and Charlie done correctly. But unfortunately for Meyer, this meant that the readers also saw the platonic Bella/Jacob and Charlie's disapproval of Edward and probably began jumping ship, preferring the calm healthy dynamic that was New Moon Jacob with Bella. Meyer - of course - never planned for this and hated it. To her, Bella/Edward is everything and means everything. But instead of fixing the Edward/Bella relationship into one where we would actually support it, she massacred Jacob in such a disgusting and repulsive manner in Eclipse (and Breaking Dawn). I mean, "nice guy"? Sexual assault? Forced kiss? That shitty excuse of a retcon - "Oh, New Moon Jacob never existed, he was always an asshole the whole time" without any actual indication in New Moon that Jacob was actually like that? And the fucking imprinting thing, I can't even. And then she also hurt Charlie on a lesser level - suddenly turning around and singing Edwards praises and liking the questionable behavior? At least in Breaking Dawn, I resigned myself to everyone being shitty, but Eclipse was honestly the hardest of the four books to read - and that's taking the shitty imprinting thing into consideration, since my expectations were nonexistent at that time. New Moon was obviously my favorite of the four - since Edward was gone, Bella was slowly moving on with an actually nice, platonic Jacob and supportive father and friends. New Moon's worst sins were the shitty technical writing and the terrible pacing - but oh my god Eclipse (and Breaking Dawn, and even Twilight).

[@rebellyanmagic6409]

@@alsinakiria In Breaking Dawn, Bella scents Charlie and feels 'a hot stabbing of desire.' It's for his blood, but considering what metaphor vampires traditionally stand for....

[@isdrakon9802]

I don't understand all the hate Jacob gets. It should be on the author that wrote him in this way. I understand where it's coming from but the blame really isn't where it should be

[@zaramikazuki8374]

@@isdrakon9802 The hate is for the character that Jacob becomes post-New Moon, and that character should be hated. The blame for it definitely falls on Meyer, and especially so in the character assassinations of Jacob and Charlie. I don't think the blame could be placed on anyone other than the author, for what is written in a book. But that doesn't change that now, as a result, canon Jacob and canon Charlie are actually shitty people now and should be disliked.

[@CoolG97]

Vampire Mafia need to invest in a blood-bank. More blood, less questions.

[@Wired_User]

But less fun! What’s the point of your eating your food if you can’t feel it struggling?

[@CoolG97]

@@Wired_User I would say it's a small price to pay in order to prevent Innsmouth Part 2.

[@BrainWitchSiv]

Pay the humans and you'd never have to hunt again.

[@jackhazardous4008]

or invest in the Military Industrial Complex

[@eliasbischoff176]

your comment is already better than the entire book series.

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

In new moon at the start Jacob was a geniunely nice boy - a 16 years old- who actually tried to help Bella and when people obviously started to like him more Meyer did one of the worst character assasinations I have ever seen. The book was so so much worse. The writing....the way Bella describes she just gone numb and passive so it over as soon as possible...I felt violated just by reading. I am sorry but Fuck Meyer.

[@zaramikazuki8374]

Yeah, to this day, I have not ever seen a character assassination done so thoroughly and entirely - as if bombed with napalm into oblivion - as Jacob's assassination. He was really nice in New Moon - I actually *loved* the platonic Bella/Jacob (I adore any platonic m/f friendships, given how rare they are in our heteronormative society), with Edward gone, Bella suffering but slowly getting better with help from an actually supportive and chill friend in Jacob and her father. Bella was actually on track to recovering until goddamn Edward and the Cullens returned. Of course fans preferred Jacob. But oh no. Anything that threatens the Bella/Edward supremacy in Meyer's eyes must be destroyed. Whether it was Jacob and his platonic friendship turning into "nice guy" sexual assault and eventually fucking child grooming, or her father Charlie and his correctly-placed disapproval of Edward turning into him magically condoning anything he does including a wide range of abuse. I was actually fine with New Moon - it was my "favorite" of the four (as in "this is kind of boring and poorly written, but I can appreciate the concepts being presented here, outside of the ending where Edward returns"). Sure the technical writing was bad and the pacing was very poor, but New Moon's worst sins were just that it was boring and didn't flesh out the world enough, thanks to said writing and pacing. Bella's depression was seriously terrible, but a lot of readers resonated with that sense of loss, and some of the presentation (like the empty pages in the middle) was creative. But Bella was improving, with help from her dad, Jacob, and her school friends until the damn vampires return. But Eclipse and Breaking Dawn... and even Twilight? Those three books promote abuse, sexual assault, unhealthy relationships, the imprinting on a kid thing, with even more inconsistencies and faults. Fuck, even the racism with the appropriation of the Quileute tribe? That was at its minimum in New Moon but far worse in the other three books. Fuck, if Meyer had just ended with New Moon, with the Cullens disappearing and Bella moving on with life with Jacob as a close platonic friend and never created Eclipse or Breaking Dawn, I would have forgiven her for Twilight, probably.

[@breezy3392]

I was so disgusted by that chapter I had to skim-read it. It made me sick, and even worse that nobody held him accountable for it. Jacob is never made to see that he did something wrong. And it only gets worse when he threatens suicide if Bella doesn't kiss him again. Wtf?

[@SpaceandGoats]

Im so tired of the recent resurgence of giving Meyer a pass. I don't get it

[@zaramikazuki8374]

@@SpaceandGoats I know that some of the Twilight fandom is part of this Renaissance wherein the fans are moreso fans of the lost potential rather than the books themselves, and so do fix-it fics, alternate universes, alternate storylines, different romantic ships altogether, etc. Those fans (more fans of the general verse rather than the books) are fine by me. Even I have fun with the occasional fix-it that is 100x better written than Meyer's original. What I don't get are the fans that still stand by the book and say it is unironically good.

[@MichR14]

You're totally right, but personally I never liked Jacob.

[@j.tgrooms]

Vampires: rampaging through Washington Alucard: I've always liked a floor show before dinner.

[@andrewb6194]

Which one? The Castlevania one or the Hellsing one?

[@old-worldghost3451]

@@andrewb6194 probably Hellsing

[@calikikitaru3519]

Alucard from TFS: At least there going on walks ...

[@j.tgrooms]

@@andrewb6194 Hellsing

[@andrewb6194]

@@j.tgrooms thanks! I suppose I couldn’t see Castlevania Alucard saying this. He’d probably just take care of them without any dialogue.

[@l.tc.5032]

Here's my edits to to Rose's backstory. She used to be a socialite, but gave the life up to be with a person a who actually loved her. This resulted in her parents basically shunning her, but she didn't care, she was happy and proud of the life she built with a man she loved. And she was expecting a child. This can explain why she wishes to have a child so bad, she was literally pregnant and feeling very maternal with a brain filled with pregnancy hormones at the time of her transformation. Her attacker should be her Ex Fiancee that her social climbing parents set her up with. Rose left him because he was an ass and she knew she deserved better. Rather than in the street, he tracks her down and breaks into her and her husband's home where he assults her and leaves her for dead. The attack which was horrifying, humiliating and violent all on it's own also causes her to miscarry robbing her of the chance to be a mother. Also I know this is extreme, but the ex fiance also kills Rose's husband. And he does all this because he feels so slighted that she left him for what he considers to be a worthless poor person, that in his mind if he can't have her no one can. So her whole life is ripped from her. Husband, baby, happy home, all of it everything she built up and was proud of just gone in one night due to the selfish actions of a spoiled man child. And Rose would genuinly rather be dead along with her husband and unborn child (part of her hate of being a vampire is the survivors guilt,) but obviously it doesn't turn out like that. Also as to why she's turned I think it should actually show that Carlisle isn't perfect and he actually almost gave in to his bloodlust. Rose would get taken to the hospital by her friend in an attempt to save her but it's looking bleak and she's written off as dead by morning, when he smells her. For the first time he can't control himself and goes in for the kill, but he stopped himself before completely draining her. However he couldn't stop the transformation, so taking responsibility for his mistake he takes her into his family. As for her revenge she initially doesn't want to do it herself but it soon becomes clear that her ex is going to get away scott free. She wants justice and takes it into her own hands. But it doesn't make her feel any better, and vows to never kill again except for feeding. And regarding Emmett this is an easy fix just say he was already a vampire when they met. He was still attacked by a bear but some random vampire turned him smelling the blood. and he met Rose shortly thereafter (and by shortly I mean like 10 years later) and she learns to love again. Though she'll never stop loving the husband and unborn child she lost which makes life just a little more difficult for her every day no matter how much time passes. I don't know, the whole thing makes me uncomfortable and this is my best fix and even I don't think it's that good.

[@KrimsonRogue]

Dark as fuck, but you definitely caught my attention with that change to her background. I don't think I'd have anything to criticize, at least in terms of concept.

[@wajmgirl]

Can I make an suggestion? I like what you did with Carlisle but maybe it could be that he decided to save her because she was helpful when she was human? Maybe she volunteered at the hospital, or maybe she did something kind towards him on occasion? Like, hypothetically, he gets caught inside a building when it’s too sunny outside. Maybe he’s hunkered down in an alcove until he can move safely. Rosalie passes by and they talk and he lies and says he can’t move from there because his got like, a sensitivity to light or something. Rosalie doesn’t hesitate and gives him her umbrella. Some simple act like that might make his “it would be such a waste” comment slightly more poignant. Like, he selfishly wanting to keep something “good” in the world even though his intervention would “corrupt” it in a way.

[@CoolG97]

Actually seeing as Esme was around by this time what if she tried to help Rosalie start a new life and was coming to check on her but found her dying. Given Esme's own past she'd probably believe that having Rosalie be turned would be a good idea but not realize how radically different their circumstances were. Edit-If Rosalie's last image of her husband is his broken and bleeding body then when she finds Emmett, broken bleeding but still alive, it would explain her rash decision to have him turned. (Heck have "angel" be the nickname her husband gave her so when Emmett calls her as he's dying it confirms her choice.)

[@l.tc.5032]

@@wajmgirl I like the idea if her volunteering at the hospital maybe being Carlisle's friend possibly even seeing him as the father she wished she had but never got.

[@zaramikazuki8374]

I can count only two good things that came out of Twilight. First was the real life money and benefits accorded to the real life Quileute tribe - I believe President Obama and Congress signed something expanding the tribes borders and providing them assistance in relocating from tsunami-threatened zones. The tribe themselves say that while many things were wrong, they did enjoy some other parts of it and had fun as they could while educating tourists and visitors. The other is the imaginative creativity of critics like Krimson and of writers like you, that see these loose threads and lost potential in this world, and come up with such amazing ideas for what could have been. Some of the fix-it/alternate universe fanfictions of the Twilight fandom is honestly amazing - fleshing out the world, filling in plot holes, changing stuff altogether and even going with different romantic ships altogether, dissections and critiques, allegories and crossover works... the current "Twilight" fans (of the so-called "Twilight Renaissance") are not fans of the work as it is, but rather are fans of what Twilight could have been, if it had been done by a better author.

[@hanyuu05]

My mom is watching Law and Order SVU, so when I heard the opening line here, I burst out laughing.

[@trinaq]

Me too, that joke made my entire day! 😂🤣

[@Xehanort10]

And as far as Sam goes I want that guy to get the George Foyet from Criminal Minds treatment. He slashed Emily's face for rejecting him and the poor woman was so frightened he'd do worse she stays with him out of fear. But Meyer treats that as Emily realising she loved Sam. Stockholm Syndrome is not love Stephanie.

[@tnecniw]

What is it with famous love romance novels written by women to include sexual assault? O_O

[@dromalloma2651]

Emotional immaturity? A conflation of passion/assertiveness with overt aggression? Faux sense of danger or thrill? I'm not sure myself.

[@Megatron_95]

It's a sick fantasy for what it is

[@baseliacaliga]

Only shows how normalized it is within our gender and the whole society. After all, boys will be boys...

[@trinaq]

I know, why are sexual assaults almost ALWAYS romanticised in young adult novels?!

[@ariaalexandria3324]

The whole “he’s so into her that he just can’t stop himself” bullshit.

[@magicwinxcrow2612]

"This isn't romantic, this is selfish and possessive" That sentence could sum up this entire series.

[@isobelduncan]

It's said that Meyer was partially inspired by Wuthering Heights, but then again she only has surface knowledge of it. Cathy and Heathcliff's relationship was more obsession than love. Not to mention Heathcliff was a jerk.

[@tobyjack1238]

Wait, so the book had a part where people were missing, being killed, and burned, but no one reacted to it? This situation is eerily similar to Empress Theresa having the world starve to death while the civilians didn't care.

[@sorcerersapprentice]

What the books did to Charlie and Jacob makes my blood boil. On top of what you said about Charlie, during the first two books, Jacob seemed like a chill and sweet guy, who cared about his family and loved ones. During Eclipse and Breaking Dawn, Jacob transformed into a douchebag, who sexually assaults Bella and falls in love with her new born daughter. Those characters both deserved so much better.

[@slevinchannel7589]

Jacob is worse than most Nice Guys... and he has super-strength... ...

[@NA-AN]

@@slevinchannel7589 Ohno

[@malakimdeanmeep868]

I always found it amusing that the movie cuts out the one major point which cuts the "love triangle" down. Bella asked Jacob point blank if he had imprinted on her, and he responds "No". It was a major part of the choice of Edward, as she didn't want to be dumped like Leah was

[@l.tc.5032]

I remember watching an episode of a TV show can't remember which one and when a mother found out that her daughter's boyfriend was abusing her, (not even sexual assault just emotional and verbal abuse.) She in no uncertain terms told him to get off her property and stay away from her daughter. That is what a parent is supposed to do protect their children. WTF is wrong with Meyer?!

[@generalgrievous2202]

Are you sure that was a tv show? Cuz that sounds like what most people would do in real life.

[@Xehanort10]

She's a Mormon. That's explanation enough. Mormon women probably get taught that they just have to put up with what men do to them or that what gets done to them is their fault. From a cult that thinks women doing anything other than getting married and having kids is wrong because God supposedly chose them to be wives and mothers I wouldn't be surprised.

[@sibanipanigrahy5509]

Sounds like rebecca and kate from this is us

[@BigAmericanGirlFan]

I almost thought Degrassi High but that particular case did involve child sexual abuse. And it was the mother's boyfriend who was the abuser, not the daughter's.

[@marieavril9470]

That's a real parent

[@katherinealvarez9216]

5:02 now I’m imagining that and a bunch of vampires lodging complaints like “You had my mom killed because she forgot to wear a shawl that one time! They didn’t even think she was a vampire! They thought she was wearing body glitter!”

[@CoolG97]

"I know he was caught on video jumping 10 feet in the air, but no one believes it's real half the comments were pointing out wires."

[@fleon4115]

Now I just imagine vampires at pride. Glitter on my friends

[@anarchomando7707]

@@fleon4115 and lond dong cod pices

[@weasel7491]

It's why I like "What We Do in the Shadows" by two great dudes, one being Taika Waititi (if you liked Thor: Ranarok) and Jemaine Clement. It has a Vampjre council in the show thats absolutely just, laughably bad on purpose. From having a baby on the council and a running gag "I cant believe someone turned a baby. Who would do that?" The shows a mockumentary that explores better themes and healthier relationships with a vampire and werewolf society. Also vampire hunters! And theyre not who they typically are in other media. I wont spoil it. But the show makes it so you simutaneously root for vampires and the hunters. Also the tv series' main characters are all bisexual and there's not a dominance of white vampires. The main vampires are all from other countries with some purposeful historical innacuracy for jokes. Like Nandor is a former ruler of a country that did a lot of pillaging. But he was kicked out for the pillaging. There's also a psychic energy vampire who is purposefully a cookie-cutter white man that isnt conventionally attractive.

[@slevinchannel7589]

Jacob is worse than most Nice Guys... and he has super-strength... ...

[@spiderlily723]

Know what's best about Rosie's story? She's a spoiled debutant with rich baker father IN THE GREAT DEPRESSION.

[@CoolG97]

Banker, not baker...baker might have actually made sense.

[@bioticjedi3864]

Meyer's mormon knowledge of american history is showing again

[@UnknownUnknown-mo7zg]

@@CoolG97 Depends on how rich the banker was beforehand. The rich still survived that era with money.

[@CoolG97]

@@UnknownUnknown-mo7zg I guess but saying "They were rich during the Great Depression because the father was a banker" is like saying "We had food during a famine because we're farmers." it just doesn't sound right.

[@UnknownUnknown-mo7zg]

@@CoolG97 Completely agreed. If Meyer had been smart, she could have had Rosalie be cousin to one of the biggest families in the days then. Cousins would be ´provided' for, especially the pretty female kind. AND Meyer could have scored historical points too without being insulting to white people or inaccurate to history´s treatment of women.

[@KimberlyByrdV]

“The cover isn’t a ribbon, it’s a red flag!” You hit the mail on the head.

[@ryuudraco592]

Just when I thought this book couldn't get worse. Like I get why the dad doesn't like edward it's a fairly common trope where the parent doesn't like the main character's crush/stories couple, but to actually go "atta boy" and asking to press charges on your own daughter for trying to fight back is just disposable and the absolute worse

[@noelbernabe8704]

Charlie was always too hard on Edward, at least based on what he knew. We as readers know that Edward leaving was his decision, but from CHarlies perspective Edwards father got a new job and moved away. That's not Edwards fault But yeah, Charlie was team Jacob to the point where he was willing to congradualate Jacob for sexually assaulint his daughter, he was an utter failure as both a father and law enforcement office. I don't know why Bella didn't leave Charlie right then and there, and move in with the Cullens.

[@trygveplaustrum4634]

Remember all the "Team Jacob" and "Team Edward" shirts? Yeah, change those to "Team Rapist" and "Team Stalker." These fans, man...

[@GaoDaHoi]

Stalker or Rapists... . ..... More like two side of the same coin!

[@Falxifer95]

Also Team Emotionally Abusive and Team Rapist

[@sweettea1193]

It's not called stalking if it's consensual 🤷 and for the most part, Edward's stalking and general obsessive behaviour is perfectly fine and even liked by Bella. If there's consent, it's ok

[@MELLOWDRAMA]

@@sweettea1193 yes, but you gotta remember something. Bella’s not normal. She’s… unique. And not in a good way. When is it cute to have an angry harasser or an emotional abuser pining for you, and when is it cute that you let both of them have their way with you?

[@sweettea1193]

@@MELLOWDRAMA with humans it's not cute. But Edward isn't human, he doesn't sleep, and he is a predator. Bella, while being his gf, is still his prey. It's normal for natural predators to stalk their prey, especially when the prey wants it. Idk it's not creepy when it's a mythical sparkly predator 🤷 but I can't ever defend Jacob's actions so I'll give you that one

[@kokepasu4583]

Growing up mormon, I was often taught that if I got assaulted it would be my fault because I must not have been covering myself good enough or acting properly. I actually knew people in the cult who had been assaulted and taught young girls that it was their fault.

[@michanone]

That is the saddest thing I've read in days... What is wrong with those people? 😕

[@michanone]

@Kiki Yushima that is no church, that is a crappy cult! Yikes, America is weird (and no, I don't live there) I'm so glad I was raised to think about things on my own.

[@gracekim1998]

That’s...SCARY

[@hayleybartek8643]

Oh, that kind of thinking isn't exclusive to Mormons, the post-modern era, or even America. You see it all throughout history, people justifying violence because of the victim's appearance, behavior, attire, or beliefs. "You voted for the wrong person." "You pray to the wrong god." "You showed your face in public." "Your speech is literally violence against me so it's self-defense to beat you with a bike lock until you can't speak."

[@Xehanort10]

Mormons have the same logic as rapists apparently. The whole "You wanted it. You were asking for it because of what you were wearing" sick logic.

[@TheHiddenDirector]

On Charlie's behavior in the movie (not getting into the books, that's a whole different train wreck), in Eclipse his indifference a lot of the time actually does seem organic from everything that's happened. He feels like a dad who is still trying, but is being pushed back so hard by his daughter that he's just... exhausted. I feel so bad for him whenever I see how tired he is, because he did everything to try and connect with and protect his daughter, but she fought him and hurt him and he realized that he couldn't win. He could be the "bad guy" and have Bella hate him but be safe, or he could be the "good guy" and let her continue to make horrible decisions and ultimately spiral. (Good guy and bad guy being from Bella's perspective.) And I feel like a lot of people who are young or don't have kids will underestimate how difficult this choice is. Sure, we all say we could be tough but fair. And in the end we think we'd be willing to have our kids mad at us in exchange for their safety. But you don't understand the absolute heartbreak of having a kid hate you because you are trying to do right by them, and the right thing is "so unfair." Also, remember what happened last movie? How she stormed out and said, "If I don't leave now I'll end up stuck like mom"? Imagine how much that still eats away at him. That his daughter, who he's been trying so hard with, used his unhappy marriage and divorce against him. And then went off and got herself hospitalized *again.* I don't blame him for being so exhausted he's close to giving up. As for his reaction to Jacob saying he kissed Bella and she broke her hand punching him (again, movie, not book), you can see that exhaustion there, too. Ideally, yes, he should've finished what Bella started. But so far *everything* he's done seems like the wrong thing. I feel just bad for him, he doesn't even know what to do anymore. Like when he says "If you're fighting, don't let me stop you" in such a tired voice when they're arguing. Like... he knows he should stop it, but he's just so tired of Bella thinking he's the bad guy.

[@slevinchannel7589]

OR the Writer could just not do better. How do you like my Theory?

[@TheHiddenDirector]

@@slevinchannel7589 That makes no sense to anything I said.

[@slevinchannel7589]

@@TheHiddenDirector It was a direct answer to your comment... so yeah, it does. Re-read.

[@TheHiddenDirector]

@@slevinchannel7589 Except I never said anything about anyone's writing improving. All I did was give my opinion on what Charlie's mindset in the movie was. So... again, no. It doesn't make any sense. If I had at any point said, "I think they should've used these ideas to improve on the writing of the movies," then your reply would've been relevant. But because I didn't, it's not.

[@townfool4682]

Hi Im late to this comment, but I totally agree. Also, I feel like it makes sense for Charlie to not get mad at Jacob, because he likely views him as harmless. Jacob is his best friend's son; he has known Jacob his whole life and he knew that Jake was one of the only friends who supported his daughter during one of the worst times in her life (aka when Edward left her in New Moon). Jacob is also like 1.5 - 2 years younger than Bella (in books and movie), which plays into the view of Jacob as an overly enthusiastic boy with a crush rather than a threat. Obviously Jacob is not just a boy, but an unnaturally strong supernatural wolf, his actions become much scarier than they should be. Which turns his inability to read the room into a potentially traumatizing moment for Bella. But Charlie obviously wouldn't know that, and in all honesty, its unlikely that Jacob would realize it in the moment either.

[@CoolG97]

From what I remember the only time Carlisle got permission to turn someone was Edward and it was from his mom. Rose, Esme, and Emmett were all busy dying and Alice and Jasper were turned before joining the family. Also weird that his family is so small and everyone he turned is from the 1900s.

[@rebellyanmagic6409]

To be fair, Edward's mother was delirious and dying from influenza so she wasn't all there when she asked this of him. I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have wanted her son to be a bloodsucking abomination.

[@CoolG97]

@@rebellyanmagic6409 True but it's still the only one where Carlisle got some kind of permission.

[@kacpikachu5951]

A scene that I always thought did the whole "interrupting kiss" thing right was Han and Leia in Empire Strikes Back. While Han does initiate it while Leia is still talking, she leans into it, so it actually feels consensual. Plus, the acting makes it feel like there are legit feelings there, so the kiss at the end feels natural. idk. Just a thought I had while watching you tear apart the Jacob section.

[@ariaalexandria3324]

I also got that feeling from Leia. There was so much chemistry between those two that I always saw it as she was like, “FINALLY.”

[@hayleybartek8643]

Probably helped that one of those two actors was a homewrecker for the other. Legit feelings, alright.

[@ariaalexandria3324]

@@hayleybartek8643 Don’t blame Carrie. Harrison, as the married one, is the one who should have said no.

[@anarchomando7707]

@@ariaalexandria3324 yeah and Carrie was like 19 in a new hope

[@hayleybartek8643]

@@ariaalexandria3324 I couldn't remember who the married one was.

[@ajshell2]

Me before watching this series: "Twilight hate was a bit excessive. It couldn't be THAT bad" Me afterwards "NOPE! I've changed my mind!"

[@Xehanort10]

The only people who think Twilight was over hated are its fans who wait for any chance to play the victim and go "We were just poor teen girls hated for liking Twilight" when they were hated for their overreaction to even slight criticism of the series. Then there's the likes of Lindsey "everything is sexism" Ellis who I'm convinced that if she farted she'd accuse anyone who didn't like the smell of being a misogynist. In another video she did she accused Psycho of being transphobic even though Norman Bates isn't trans. He had a split personality based on his mother and dressed up in her clothes, spoke in her voice and created his other personality in his head as a way of bringing her back to life. He didn't feel like a woman or want a sex change to become one. She accused Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs of being the same even though he wasn't trans either to the point when he tried to get the surgery he was deemed too disturbed. And since his response to that was to kill and skin women and wear the skin as a suit they were right to refuse him.

[@Shadewaltz]

@@Xehanort10 It's very funny to see the pendulum swing back the other way. The books came out, and they were considered great. Then the backlash happened, and they were considered awful. Later we saw the "People only hated them because girls like them" stance, and WHILE TRUE FOR MANY OTHER THINGS, in response we're seeing all the "No, actually, they were genuinely very very bad" analysis. Also, lol you've never actually watched anything from Ellis, have you? You're parroting nonsense. She literally discussed the things you're whining about.

[@ONIscrooge]

Really feels like Meyer was willing to break all of the characters because people were preferring Jacob over Edward. As far as I have been told mind you, and watching your series, since I never read more than 1 paragraph of this crap. I can't remember what book it was, but the line that made me stop was, "The glove was small for his too big hand" or something to that effect.

[@zaramikazuki8374]

Absolutely - I know I did. I absolutely loved the platonic friend that was New Moon Jacob, helping support Bella as she recovered from her deep depression at her own pace. Her dad and the rest of her social circle also helping her out. I don't think I'll ever forgive Meyer for character assassinating Jacob so thoroughly, just because of the "Bella/Edward" supremacy in her mind and fear that her fans might - god forbid - actually not want those two together and like Jacob and his calm platonic presence better.

[@thecursedcometh5499]

Sounds like something the Hulk would write. " T O O B I G H A N D F O R S M A L L H A N D G L O V E "

[@noelbernabe8704]

@@zaramikazuki8374 Except Jacob wasn't platonic even in New Moon. Jacob threatened to put Mike Newton in the hospital when they were at the movie threater. Was that because Mayers was against any Bella/Mike shipping too? THe way Jacob was acting in Eclipse was the same way he was acting at the end of New Moon when Edward returned. THere was nothing calm or platonic about him attemptiong to get Bella in trouble with Charlie to keep her from Edward. I think people are trying too hard to ignore parts of the story to support this fabricated narrative that Jacob changed because people liked him. Jacob changed because he became a freaking werewolf

[@aconcernedcommissar6261]

I can remember a reaction to the whole assault thing "if i were Charlie my front room would be getting a new wolf skin rug" does anyone know where that's from?

[@victoriashevlin8587]

I have no idea but I desperately want to know.

[@aconcernedcommissar6261]

@@victoriashevlin8587 now this sounds quite the range but either a video or now I think a friend may have said it

[@anansajohnson9139]

7:09 OMG! Thank you, I always wondered HOW they where getting away with killing that many people without scaring the tourist from coming or not having an entire investigation going on about the missing people with them vanishing at the place they all where vacationing at.

[@meghanphillips3495]

Right? None of these people have a family that might look into their disappearance? That might go to the press? Did Meyer never see the press coverage of Natalie Holloway or Madeline McCann?

[@RosesSpindle]

YES, this, thank you!

[@HackerWarrior84]

I've actually got a decent explanation for how the Volturi could get away with murdering a whole tour group. If they were already in one group, say in a bus tour or something like that, then all they'd have to do is make it look like the bus went off the road, crashed, and burned. Or fell into the sea and they all drowned. Something that would maybe take a while to find and make cause of death too difficult to determine. Boom. They get their snacks, and everyone else thinks it's just a horrible accident. I mean, there's no support for this in the text or anything as far as I know, but it's one way they could do it.

[@UnknownUnknown-mo7zg]

I treat it like the Hostel Movies. They know people in government and its suppressed until it is no longer capable of being suppressed. Then it is the protocol of murdering people to cover up the deaths.

[@bigchungusstarscream7319]

I know this has nothing to do with the comment (you made great points) but I LOVE your profile picture!! 😀❤ Wheeljack!!

[@morbid_curiosity]

Just wanted to say that, as a woman who’s experienced different degrees of SA, seeing Krimson go in depth about why the forced kiss was so bad was honestly a great thing to see. Especially cause things like a kiss or a touch tend to seem “not that bad” but they’re just as violating and scary. Especially as someone who’s questioned my own experiences and even thought what I went through wasn’t even “real” SA because there are people who are r*ped out there. There have even been times when I doubted if a thing that happened to me was “actually” r*ape because of how it happened. All this to say it’s oddly comforting seeing a man get so thoroughly upset and genuinely disgusted about this “romantic” interaction. As hard as it is to hear Krimson even just describe the scene, hearing him take it so seriously almost made me cry cause I was so grateful he was taking this seriously and talking about it respectfully. It’s so validating to hear someone say, “yes this is SA and it’s fucking horrible and disgusting” when things like kisses tend to not be taken seriously as SA. Love the videos and thank you!!♥️

[@bookishnewt8468]

Wild to hear that in Twilight (a ‘romance’ series) none of the Cullens (except Edward apparently) had a choice in their turning. Meanwhile, in Hellsing (action-horror series), Alucard does give Seras a choice.

[@KrimsonRogue]

Alucard>>>>>>>>glitter pixies.

[@saphirawinters7028]

@@KrimsonRogue Well he does enjoy very long walks. Not to mention watching it is FUCKING FUN! 😂

[@rebellyanmagic6409]

AND who has a beautiful speech to the Queen of England about the beauty of aging, which is the pure antithesis to Bella's wailing about wanting to be changed NOW NOW NOW so she can be eighteen years old forever.

[@funnyvalentinedidnothingwrong]

@@rebellyanmagic6409 Well, to be fair, Alucard's appreciation of the human capacity to age and die is the result of multiple centuries of living a half life as a monster, whereas Bella's desire for immortality comes from the inherently human fear of death. I'd wager you'd be hard pressed to find someone who _hasn't_ wished they could be immortal at some point or another, consequences be damned.

[@CursedCatTruffa]

Alucard is a king who respects people autonomy to convert to vampirism

[@alsinakiria]

"Lazy retcon" yup. She does explain how Edward and Alice would supposedly join the badguys. Spoiler: bullshit magic powers. Love and attachment in this series does not come from time spent, experiences shared or anything. Humans, vampires and werewolves are all subject to bullshit magic that can change their entire personality, desires and goals. Bonds of love and loyalty can be broken by imprinting, being a "singer" (special tasty blood), or by bullshit magic powers that can undo it. So, while Meyer never goes into it, there is a way to save Quill, Jacob and Sam from their forced "love". There exists a vampire who can break and rearrange the bonds of love and loyalty that bind people together. Quill and Jacob wouldn't have to be pedophiles. She could break that bond with magic. Sam wouldn't have had to break Leah and Emily's family apart because of imprinting. She never goes into how this vampire could save them because Meyer doesn't see what happened to them as horrifying.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

I don't know if it would work that way.

[@Megatron_95]

Book Jesues has returned #DontCutTheHair

[@thegreatstoneddragon9432]

@Clay Chap Or Rapunzel.

[@ZelphTheWebmancer]

The longer the hair, greater the power Like a Saiyan

[@zaramikazuki8374]

For real, I have major hair envy! Krimson's hair is absolutely gorgeous and I'm unashamedly admiring it...

[@zaramikazuki8374]

I don't think I'll ever get over how horribly Meyer character assassinated Jacob. Goddamnit, I actually liked him and his calm, soothing, and peaceful wholly platonic friendship in New Moon, helping Bella move on and such. You know how much I loved seeing a platonic m/f friendship in canon? You know how rare that is in our heteronormative world today? And I'm seriously confident she never intended for him to be a romantic rival, until fans started preferring him to Edward due to Edward's own toxicity. Something on a lower scale happened with Charlie as well - that poor man also got character assassinated, though not on Jacob's level, because he did not like Edward either. And character assassinate she did. She turned this mellow and calmer guy into this raging sexist "nice guy" who commits sexual assault. And somehow Charlie becomes okay with both Jacob's assault and eventually with Edward...why... And that stupid retcon - that Jacob was faking his behavior in New Moon just to get Edward away? I call bs on that - Meyer never planned that out. The technical writing makes that obvious and there are no such indicators in New Moon that Jacob was faking (in fact, the dead opposite, the green flag cues were present). Ugh... I honestly found Eclipse harder to read than Breaking Dawn, tbh. Nope. New Moon Jacob will live on in my heart. I have my headcanon that some other entity took over Jacob's body at the end of New Moon and that the original Jacob is somewhere else living happily, far far away from Stephanie Meyer's reach. Let me live in my fanfiction-inspired ignorance, please.

[@elizabethashley42]

💯 same. I will never get over it.

[@donb7519]

jacob had a crush on bella even in new moon and bella had thoughts she may just get over ed eventually he was definitely always suppose to be a romantic obstacle she just character assassinated him when people liked him more

[@CoolG97]

Meyer took the lazy route out of an already lazy plot-line. Because why fix Edward when you can break Jacob. (I've read fanfics that treated bashing targets better.)

[@noelbernabe8704]

Jacob was NOT an example of platonic friendship. He was clearly trying to get with Bella even in New Moon.

[@katefrost8500]

I am so glad you are calling out the scene where Jacob kissed Bella. Even as a teenage girl, and the target demographic for these books, reading that made me extremely uncomfortable and I understood his actions as assult. Now that I am older it is even more horrifying and everything you said about it is correct.

[@eliasbischoff176]

You including that scene from wolf children brought back a wave of nostalgia I was definitely not prepared for

[@my_girl_seraphine5294]

I’m right there with you

[@dubbingsync]

It’s still weird to see Michael Sheen in these movie clips. Even though I know he’s in it it’s still a surprise with every appearance he has.

[@bjam89]

I am angry we didnt get to see Heyerdahl going scary in this series

[@theswordidtruth]

So uh, I've commented before about how much I love your videos in the long form style, and I love and appreciate your engagement with viewers. So I have a book suggestion for that kind of segment! Alison Pregler, formerly known as Obscurus Lupa, recently posted a book reading on a novel that seemed to fly entirely under the radar. Tyra Banks (yes, that Tyra Banks) wrote a novel. A fiction novel. Called Modelland. During a season of America's Next Top Model, she actually forced the models to pose in scenes taken directly from the book. The main character is a self insert mary-sue with heterochromia, the story is some twisted mixture of Uglies, Harry Potter, and The Neverending Story. It's a staggering 569 pages long, took Tyra a reported five years to write, contains a very surprising amount of adult themes and outright GORE, and was released as a Children's Chapter Book. I can't find anyone else of note who ever covered this book, and the entire time I was watching this four hour reading video from Alison Pregler, I could not stop myself from trying to imagine what kind of content you could produce with this absolute masterpiece of fiction. I hope to pieces that this is your next Empress Theresa, as I love those long form videos from you and I rewatch them regularly. Check this shitty book out, please, I promise your channel won't regret it. You probably will, because it's just that bad, but I think you could do some absolutely amazing shit with this. Much love and support!

[@Tareltonlives]

Seconding the recommendation! It's....astoundingly bad

[@aivilo9892]

Ive heard of that trainwreck too. While seeing Book Jesus's words of wisdom would be a glory to witness, I do feel like there are some horrors best to spare this man from

[@slevinchannel7589]

Fruits Basket is a very good Anime with Love Triangle. But nowadays we instead have the unhealthy Trend of the MC just saying "Ah, well, whatever - why even decide? Lets just be 'together' alltogether! Hurray!" ... ...Thats so wrong; wow...

[@darkdreamer871]

Krimson, I don't know what to say but thank you. thank you, thank you, thank you. it was a little hard for me to get through but the way you discussed everything at 7:38 means a lot to me. just, your outrage and disgust at the scene, your acknowledgement that assault can look like more than one thing, your understanding of how survivors struggle with guilt and shame, and just you calling out the scene for what it was: dangerous. as a survivor, it means more than I can say. like, I may have cried a little bit for a moment. so just, thank you.

[@vaggos2003]

I'm sorry to hear about what you went through. I hope your life is far better now. You have my wishes. Take care, stay safe and God bless you.

[@geekchic8798]

I think the reasoning why Charlie liked Jacob over Edward is that he is friends with Jacob's dad, saw him grow up, and he knew that he was friends with his daughter. He felt like Jacob was suited for Bella despite ignoring the obvious red flags. I know that there are people who are in the military who would go super sayian if people did the same shit that Jacob did to Bella.

[@religiousotaku9926]

Man she really did character assassinate Jacob didn’t she??? Also Ouron high school host club!!!!!

[@eamonndeane587]

"LOBELIA!!!!"

[@v-mouse]

best dad ever

[@shakespeare6749]

I got c*vid since u uploaded the last episode. Imma watch this one tomorrow morning. My head hurts and so does my throat

[@KrimsonRogue]

Definitely take care of yourself! Drink lots of water.

[@shakespeare6749]

@@KrimsonRogue will do! Thanks dude

[@meloneatingwolf1882]

Hope you get better!

[@Sailortwilight]

Sending good thoughts! Hope you feel better soon!

[@maxthepaladin2147]

Get well soon!

[@CoolG97]

I really hate the "derailing the love interest" trope because it almost always ends up looking lazy and/or offensive, it's usually the result of a writer throwing in a love triangle as filler because lord forbidden a couple get together without feeling like someone else can "steal" their partner away.

[@Tareltonlives]

There's this really terrible concept that possessiveness and jealousy are romantic, and it keeps showing up.

[@CoolG97]

@@Tareltonlives It's toxic and the only reason I can think for it is the angst high for the readers/writer. Even good book series have it, I'll never forgive Hermione for the canaries is book 6.

[@Tareltonlives]

@@CoolG97 Harry Potter had truly dreadful romances; they come off as shallow and toxic. It makes Harry and ginny look shallow and superficial and Hermione and Ron as two-sided spousal abuse waiting to happen.

[@CoolG97]

@@Tareltonlives What's worse is it didn't need to be like that. Both couple have enough seeds planted to grow naturally but Rowling thought "Nope, jealousy and obsession is the only way to show attraction." in the end the only healthy relationship is Fleur and Bill mostly because we don't see a lot of it.

[@Tareltonlives]

@@CoolG97 Pretty much. I actually used to Ship Romione until the 5th book and 6th book.

[@funnyvalentinedidnothingwrong]

As a dude who was on Team Jacob (as much as my extremely mild interest in the series allowed at least) The Jacob presented from the R*pe-kiss chapter on is not the Jacob we liked. The Jacob WE liked was murdered, dumped in the ocean with concrete shoes, and replaced by a monster wearing a Jacob suit.

[@anti-roxas850]

Thanks for telling us which napkin you chose.

[@breawycker]

Good on Krimson for calling Jacob out. I can't believe people still defend this

[@jacoblebold8462]

To all Jacobs in the world, we should consider suing Stephanie Meyer for defamation.

[@rebellyanmagic6409]

Would it make you feel better if I told you that Jacob got his name from one of Meyer's brothers? I'm not sure if he'd be happy with his sister choosing his name for her self-insert's rapey secondary love interest that later imprints on her newborn daughter.

[@jacoblebold8462]

@@rebellyanmagic6409 I think that just makes it worse.

[@slevinchannel7589]

Fruits Basket is a very good Anime with Love Triangle. But nowadays we instead have the unhealthy Trend of the MC just saying "Ah, well, whatever - why even decide? Lets just be 'together' alltogether! Hurray!" ... ...Thats so wrong; wow...

[@jsb6975.ah.crapbaskets]

I agree.

[@sparksaturnextraaccount3703]

@@slevinchannel7589implying that polyamory is inherently unhealthy.. yikes

[@BrainWitchSiv]

Charlie is under the influence of vampire magic. A sort of apathy that prevents the human from reacting in a rational way. Like It from the Steven King novel It.

[@dallaslindsey4865]

I am so happy that you're doing these reviews. The weird r*pe stuff from Jacob especially makes me sick. It's coming to my attention that Stephanie Meyer doesn't understand the concept of consent at all? Like in any way? Rosalie is mad about being turned without her consent but turns Emmett without his consent. This is the most convoluted and problematic story. The fact that millions of teens read these books and internalized these messages is a bit concerning.

[@noelbernabe8704]

It's pretty funny that no one calls Rose on her ridicuous double standard. It's wrong for Bella and herself to lose their humanity, but it's perfectly fine for Emmet to if that's what Rose wants. WTF? I'd take Roses heartfelt rants more seriously if she wasn't so much of a hypocrite.

[@nattyme5699]

I know I'm not the only one who screamed at that perfectly executed intro! Krimson and SVU??? Dreams do come true!

[@KrimsonRogue]

Credit goes to Kishti for editing that bit in.

[@nattyme5699]

@@KrimsonRogue Kishti is the shit! Love you and the team. Great content from a talented cast.

[@FillaneAmmisto]

Seeing how Bellas dad acts is so weird. I mean not every dad has to be like mine who immediately acted as soon as he found out my ex was beating me because she went too hard this time and I wasn't able to cover it up. He told my ex to stay away from us not being afraid to threaten a 19 year old woman and went to the police with me to file a restraining order. I didn't want to but he didn't let me return to her making sure I get through the phase of regret and it took long, I hated him, but I woke up and realized that he was defending me. God knows where I would have ended up if he was like Charly

[@breezy3392]

So glad you had someone to help you out of a bad relationship and that you recognize he was helping you. Hope you're okay now

[@FillaneAmmisto]

@@breezy3392 I'm at a better place and in a happy relationship with my boyfriend, yet I was never really able to build relationships with other women. Sometimes I feel like I'm avoiding something and sometimes I'm glad that I moved on.

[@trinaq]

I'm so sorry that you went through such a difficult ordeal, though I'm glad that you're in a happier and healthier relationship, and that your father was able to help you out. Sending all my love! 💖

[@vaggos2003]

@@FillaneAmmisto I'm sorry to hear about what happened to you, I'm glad to hear that your life is far better now and I wish you the best for the future. Take care, stay safe and God bless you.

[@CRSB00]

about Rosalie's backstory, there is little doubt to me that, in Meyer's mind, the "not being able to have children" is more than enough cons against being a vampire, doesn't mater that she gets to live forever with the love of her (un?)live that she may or may not turned without consent, an adopted family that cares about her, being almost invulnerable, enough financial sustain, if she's unable to conceive, every perk the un-live it may have, is meaningless.

[@anabia8761]

Charlie was my favorite character, but he was reduced to mere glimpse of what he once was. For me Charlie just gave up on turning around and being better father, he was trying in the beginning but Bella broke his trust and his heart so many times by now that it brought up the worst in him.

[@BunW.Bun21774]

Rosalie’s reasons for Bella to not become a vampire could’ve been these 1) You don’t age. While that’s normally a good thing for some people, I feel like depending on the age a person is turned, they could grow to resent being frozen in that state. For example, an eighty year old man could be turned but while his health issues could be reversed, he would still one day want to die due to seeing the same things as time goes by. It could also be said that not aging could rob a person of living their life to the fullest or as Rosalie said once, growing old and watching her grand children. 2) You can’t enjoy your favorite meals anymore due to the fact that I guess vampires get all their nutrients from blood. 3) You can’t keep any relationships (whether they’re platonic or romantic) you forge with someone because people will begin to notice you’re not looking the age you say you are, so as a result, you’ll have to leave the home you’ve made to keep your immortality secret. I mean is it that hard to believe that the Cullens didn’t make human friends or at least acquaintances? Carlisle works at a hospital for gods sake. He had to at least have a bit of a relationship with his patients/co workers. 4) You can’t have children. That’s kind of self explanatory. That’s all I could come up with. Edit: I just realized that if Rosalie hated/resented Carlisle for turning her, why didn’t she just go off on her own? Why didn’t she just found her own coven starting with Emmett - who she asked to turn or at least ask if he trusts her to save him.

[@noelbernabe8704]

Rose probably didn't resent Carlisle that much. Especially since she basically asked Carlisle to do to Emmet what he did to her. It's almost hypocrtical for her to be THAT upset with him when she turned around and had it done to Emmet.

[@tamerafarly7666]

I hated what happened with Jacob in this book. To the point where I almost wish that New Moon was the last time we saw him...until the final battle. Here's how that would work: Jacob doesn't respond to Bella's letter. He doesn't call or contact her at all. Charlie mentions that he's going through a rough time, and Bella says that she thinks that seeing her would make it worse. Even though Jacob isn't there physically, his absence is felt. Bella's mom asks about him, since Bella mentioned him during those months they were hanging out and Bella has a heart to heart with her mom about how she chose her relationship with Edward over her friendship with Jacob. Her mom is supportive. Sam and Quill come to the school. Sam warns the Cullens to stay away. Bella asks Quill about Jacob and Quill tells her that Jacob needs time. Embry brings Bella the bracelet that Jacob made and tells her that Jacob made it before every thing went down with Edward. Jacob doesn't come to training. Bella talks with Wolf Embry about him and vents a little. Over the course of the story, Bella has been coming closer and closer to the realization that she is in love with Jacob (but it's brought on by his absence. Not his constant pushing. ) Jacob place in the story is swapped with Leah. Leah carries Bella and talks about her Dad, her wolf transformation, etc. Leah cuddles Bella in the tent and talks with Edward about how being Supernatural has ruined her life. Jacob takes over for Leah in the morning. He's in wolf form and stays in wolf form. He and Edward defeat Victoria and Jacob gets hurt. Bella tells Jacob about how Edward asked her to marry him and that she's going to become a vampire soon. Jacob takes the news better than she expects. He's not angry and he seems resigned. They talk a little bit and Bella realizes that this is the first time she's felt at peace in a long while. She realizes she's in love with Jacob but before she can say anything, she sees he's fallen asleep. Bella kisses Jacob on the forehead and says that she loves him and he mumbles that he loves her too. Then Bella leaves. She cried in her car and grieves. Then she goes home to Edward. Jacob is not in Breaking Dawn and he never imprints on a baby

[@KrimsonRogue]

That would be a massive improvement. Proper use of absence to advance character too.

[@tamerafarly7666]

@@KrimsonRogue Thank you!

[@sweettea1193]

@@tamerafarly7666 love it. Only thing I'd change is making Bella a decent human so she doesn't try to constantly push her friendship on Jacob like she does in eclipse. What should've happened is after Edward comes back in New moon, Bella realises that she can no longer continue her friendship with Jacob because it's only going to hurt him to see her with Edward, and she doesn't want to hurt him. Remember Bella already knew Jacob was in love with her in New moon, and it was crewl of her to continue wanting to be his friend after she knew that. That grieving in her car scene at the end of eclipse should've come at the end of New moon. That should've been the epilogue, because Bella always knew no matter how much she loved Jake, she would always pick Edward, so the goodbye with Jake should've been immediate, instead of it being prolonged and hurting everyone.

[@Xehanort10]

11:04 The fact that it's described like a rape scene but Meyer thinks it wasn't one and doesn't get the implications of how she described it is concerning.

[@Jen37978]

Loving these videos! Two things: 1. Carlisle turned Rose in hopes she would be a companion for Edward. 2. When Jacob kissed Bella, he was fully aware that he hadn’t imprinted on her (also haven’t read the book in a while but I think part of the werewolf myth is that they don’t age until they meet their imprinted mate) so even if she said alright I be with you, he knew there was a a strong likelihood that the subsequent relationship wouldn’t last. So it was kind of a doomed romance either way it played out.

[@Rikrobat]

OMG!! I clicked on the video and went to grab something. The intro to SVU threw me completely, but it’s soooo apt. I’ve only just started the video and I’m already grinning. You’re amazing, Krim. Edit: Thanks Kishti for the great edit~~

[@KrimsonRogue]

Thanks, but credit for that intro goes to Kishti for editing it in. XD

[@NeroCM]

Of course there's a meaning to Charlie's change of character. He had to be the parent "who just doesn't understand!!!"

[@Rikrobat]

It’s honestly sad how often I see abusive behaviour from love interests in what are supposed to be romance stories. I work as an editor, and recently, I’ve had to have several conversations with my boss on “how far can we nudge the author to reconsider how the male love interest is behaving?” because it’s so commonplace in this genre. Ultimately, it’s the author’s call. (In traditional publishing, the publisher might intervene, but not likely if the author is popular and the issue isn’t likely to sink their reputation.) I’m by no means excusing Jacob’s treatment of Bella in Twilight. Just because it’s popular in the genre doesn’t mean it’s excusable. I am just upset by how often it appears in these kinds of stories and how frequently it’s excused, both by creators and many people in the audience.

[@UnknownUnknown-mo7zg]

You. I like you. We need more of you.

[@CoolG97]

From what I've seen there seems to be a misunderstanding of certain literary tropes and works. Beauty and the Beast is an obvious example, modern works seems to prefer a toxic and possessive interpretation instead of dehumanized and desperate like the Beast was originally. (Which given how wolves in Twilight have next to no freewill, would fit better but Meyer went with the toxic option.) Problems come in because once you remove the sorrow and wanting to be change from the Beast, he is not the Beast anymore. He is Bluebeard and that story doesn't have a happy ending.

[@Vashthestampede967]

krimson you fookin genius! that law & order reference was brilliant!

[@infiniteshay8660]

As a fellow nondad, my paternal instincts were also screaming when you read all that happened. Jesus. I'm in the same boat as you, KR.

[@emilydivis6369]

Jacob forcibly kissing Bella is the thing that made teenage me stop being a fan of Twilight. I went from being very forgiving of what I thought were silly flaws in the story to absolutely hating the series and being livid at the author. Not the character of Jacob, but the author - because along with being sexual assault, that moment ruined my suspension of disbelief and made it uncomfortably clear to me that this was a fictional character being made to do something awful so that the fans would be happy when Bella chose the other guy. I was too disgusted to finish the book. It didn't even occur to me until much later on that the author might not have thought what Jacob did was so bad. That's even sadder and more infuriating than my original assumption.

[@darkmelodies2694]

The more Krimson's hair grows, the more he grows in power.

[@arcticdino1650]

These books are like road kill. Each book is like time passing, with each time you see it the corpse has rotted more and more. Except thats an insult to dead squirrels

[@justincarawan-carawanco.pu1639]

Got to love a movie review that starts with the opening dialog from Law&Order:SVU.

[@sorcerersapprentice]

23:03 The explanation for why he picked her according to The Illustrated Guide is just so "Edward can have a wife", and that's it. Which is...wow.

[@validark]

Im pretty sure jacobs character assassination was purely racism Cant have the brown man be nice to our wonderful pale white couple, oh no he has to lust for the beautiful white woman and be an aggressive savage and force himself onto her! Also isnt the author a Mormon or smth?

[@possummagic3571]

Dear lord 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@mirandatilley2486]

Thank you for handling the topic of s*xual ass*ult as maturely as you did. I had an at-the-time close friend make unwanted advances on me, and it took me two months to accept the reality of what had happened, even after I had a falling out with that person for separate reasons. It's an absolutely horrible thing to go through, both in the moment and dealing with the aftermath, and the story not treating what Jacob did as a horrible violation of trust and boundaries, and then has Bella keep him in her life (which unfortunately can happen as my experience shows) is one of the worst possible things you can put in a book for teenagers.

[@sydneyslaughter7163]

There’s one vampire I keep seeing that looks eerily similar to Andy Samburg and now I really want to see him do a vampire skit!

[@austin9568AuraMasterDX]

I am surprised that Charlie didn't bring out the shotgun when Jacob confessed

[@breezy3392]

Or when he said he'd do it again no matter how angry/upset/traumatized Bella was about it

[@SkyHighGuys]

Thank you so much for these videos. I truly truly appreciate your work.

[@alexandergonyea4642]

You mean to tell me. That we have been at this for three parts. The same number of parts as the previous two Twilight reviews. Which are also LONGER than the previous two Twilight reviews. And we are NOT even. An HOUR. INTO. THE MOVIE?!!! In spite of the fact that means I get to see Krim tear into this movie more, I still need to go scream into a pillow. Excuse me.

[@KrimsonRogue]

2 more parts to go! XD

[@alexandergonyea4642]

@@KrimsonRogue Wow. I'll look forward to when they come out! Keep up the great work!

[@No_Sleepee]

OHHHH *WE'RE HALF-WAY THEEERE*

[@SchazmenRassir]

11th commandment: Thou Shalt Not Defend Twilight.

[@breezy3392]

Yes please carve that in stone

[@JoeEnglandShow]

Something that always particularly irked me about Twilight's plotline was the development of that army. I mean, I haven't read the books, and I didn't pay that much attention to the movies, but the gist seems to be that this one vampiress gets especially pissed off at Bella and decides to smash the standards and practices that have governed their race for untold generations to create an apocalyptic nightmare army just for the sake of getting revenge on this girl and her associated vampire family. There's a gap there. My understanding of story logic tells me that something exceptional has to happen to cause the upheaval of a centuries-old system. There has to be some special event which leads to drastic action on this scale. Because otherwise, why doesn't it happen more often? Was it really just sheer dumb luck that Bella and the Cullens happened to get on the bad side of the one vampire who was so obsessive and determined that she would do what no other vampire on Earth would dare and threaten their entire race with exposure by waging a war with one family that pissed her off? It doesn't add up. The response is so vastly disproportionate that it requires a better justification than "Victoria is really mad at Bella". Why is she willing to go this far, when no other vampire ever did? What makes her skirmish with this one little family so profound that she would move Heaven and Earth to get at their human? And there must be a hundred better ways to kill Bella. Hell, get a long-distance sniper rifle or chuck a grenade, poison her cereal, sneak up through the basement, hire some assassins, SOMETHING short of making enough rabid death cult vampires to fill a village! And yeah, I know the Cullens have someone who can see the future, but still. Gotta be better options than creating, managing, and aiming an entire army at this one girl you don't like!

[@JoeEnglandShow]

@Al Yeah, that's totally understandable. But my criticism is of her means, not her motives. I mean, this kind of drama can't be unprecedented in the vampire world. Over the centuries there must have been thousands of spats, vampires killing vampires and leaving vengeful lovers in their wake. That's par for the course. What's really out of place is her methodology. Why is she such an exception to the rules? How come no other vampires have ever gone to such lengths, slaughtering, resurrecting, and brainwashing hundreds of people, risking the entirety of vampire society for nothing but a roundabout revenge? We have to believe that there were safeguards in place, or at the very least a deeply ingrained taboo against such reckless, massive campaigns. But Victoria would shatter the veil of secrecy and dedicate herself to the ludicrous task of spawning an almost uncontrollable legion of crazed zealots, risking apocalyptic retaliation from both humanity and the secret vampire government, all to target one gang of vampires and their pet human? This strategy would be nonsense to mortals, but to immortal beings with the wisdom of ages it's absolutely absurd. Like I said, there must be a hundred more subtle ways to get the job done short of spending months sweeping through cities and countrysides to amass an undead army. Quicker, too. Hell, Edward and Bella both almost committed suicide in the interim. What would she have done with all her crazy vampires if they had succeeded? Talk about a waste of time. If it were up to me, I would have made Victoria's plan be to turn Bella herself. It would risk little retaliation from the Volturi since the Cullens were headed that way anyway, the humans wouldn't be up in arms, and it would have robbed Edward and Bella of a sacred bonding experience, turning it into an ugly violation, a lasting revenge that could never be taken back, tainting their undead future together. THAT would be a suitably vampirish revenge. None of this Hollywood final showdown crap!

[@hayleybartek8643]

"Death by poisoned cereal" seems to be an appropriate death for Bella, who has the personality of poisoned cereal already. Appears bland, actually toxic.

[@CoolG97]

Because Meyer needed filler, she only planned for two books and so needs something to happen in the two middle books even if it makes no sense.

[@crazzyblindfisch9637]

Victoria was not the first one who created an army of new born Vampires. According to Jasper it happens all the time in the sough states of Amreca. The Volturi come often over to clean up. But this time they waited because they hoped the new borns might reduce the Edwards family.

[@crazzyblindfisch9637]

As why Victoria took such strong measures: In the book it's written that her main character trade is self-maintenance. She normaly shies away from every kind of danger. For someone like that it might be difficult to kill a girl who spends her whole lifetime either with a group of vampires who want to protect her at all costs or a pack of wolves who kill every vampire basicly for existing.

[@hanyuu05]

Hey, Krim, I recommend reading a blog called Das Mervin. She spent YEARS dissecting, analyzing, and criticizing the entire Twilight series, including the Second Life of Bree Tanner.

[@KrimsonRogue]

I'll look for that, thanks!

[@ariaalexandria3324]

I remember this and was a frequent commenter. In my head, I still call Edward Chedward. I wonder if that whole thing is still up since Livejournal was sold to a Russian company.

[@hanyuu05]

@@ariaalexandria3324 Oh wow, I didn't know that. I can still get on the site, and Mervin's youtube channel is still up.

[@ariaalexandria3324]

​@@hanyuu05 I didn’t know there was a KZbin channel! What’s the name? And what’s the link to the site? I haven’t been able to find it for a long time. When LJ was sold to that Russian company, most users jumped ship since writing about anything that can be taken as supporting of gay people is illegal in Russia and can get your stuff nuked from the site.

[@hanyuu05]

@@ariaalexandria3324 The youtube channel is just called Das Mervin. She only covers the character profiles from the Illustrated Guide though but it's still a good watch. As for the site name, I just type Das Mervin Sporking and it's usually the first link I see in results.

[@SimmSumm]

He saved Rosalie because she thought that she was beautiful and that she would be a good match for Edward because he was already so freaking depressed at that point in time. Carlisle had Esme and he thought that Rosalie would be a good match for Edward.

[@possummagic3571]

The scene where Jacob forcefully kissed Bella truly distressed me! Lucky I had my trusty fainting couch behind me at the time.

[@RealTanku]

When the Nier Automata City Ruins OST hits at 3:20 and you start zoning out and getting flashbacks...

[@XombieRawr]

Being a vampire the masquerade fan exposed to Twilight "That's a masquerade violation. That's a masquerade violation. THAT'S A HUGE FUCKING MASQUERADE VIOLATION."

[@KrimsonRogue]

I've never played Vampire the Masquerade, but it'd probably be hilarious to see that list sometime. XD

[@XombieRawr]

@@KrimsonRogue I think it would be SUPER interesting! In Vampire there's the Camarilla, which are similar to the Volturi but actually have ya know...power. The comparisons are drastic and as a huge vampire fan they make me grit my teeth!

[@Kazuma_DoubleIce]

Leaf helgersen: I took out 60 vampire's at a fotball game on my own. Mafia: we alowed a few rampaging vampire's to do our work, it did not go as planned. XD

[@Khanmanlol]

If it were up to me, I'd have Carlisle's reason to save/turn Rosalie to be that since he's a doctor, he has to save everyone he can. The problem is that he's a vampire, he can potentially save all of those in need by turning them into vampires themselves, but... 1. He has taken an oath to never turn anyone into vampires, since they'd have the blessing *and* curse of immortality 2. The Vampire Mafia has forbade the practice of turning others, unless they allow it. Because of this, Carlisle would have the power to save people, but he couldn't use said power. After so many years, he'd have to watch as countless people he tried to save end up dying, and he could have done something about it. So when he finds Rosalie dying, he decides, one time, to break his oath: he turns her into a vampire.

[@TheDepressedChemist]

Quick question Krimson, how are ya doing? Watching and reading all the stuff you do, how the hell is your brain not fried? Or is it fried?

[@Wired_User]

I think after Empress Theresa he’s feeling fine

[@Raximus3000]

YT reviewers get immunity or high resistance after a while. If they didn't they'd have gone insane.

[@slevinchannel7589]

Good Question.

[@rebellyanmagic6409]

I don't remember if it's in the book or supplementary material, but Carlisle changed Rosalie partly because he thought Edward would 'take to her', and they'd be paired up like Carlisle and Esme. So basically, Carlisle found a gang-raped young woman, changed her without her consent (she mentions screaming each time he bit her) all so he could offer her up to Edward on a silver platter, again WITHOUT her consent. And Edward rejected her because she was a snotty rich girl. But she found Emmett (who she changed because his dimples reminded her of her friend's baby's dimples. Hi there, Jocasta complex!), so it all worked out! Honestly, I feel bad for Rosalie. Meyer created her to be the blonde princess that Edward rejects in favour of the mousy brunette (Bella), and she keeps abusing her because she's irrationally jealous of blondes (she calls them 'Barbies' in the Q&A of Twilight and it gets worse in Breaking Dawn). Rosalie is Bella's bottom bitch for her to triumph over and get everything that Rosalie wants but will never have.

[@katsdraws]

I read Midnight Sun, and even from Edwards point of view (who is supposed to be her adoptive brother and on good terms with her) the prose is weirdly mean. He constantly thinks about how much he hates her. I thought they had more of a brother/sister rivalry relationship but Meyer just writes it as outright hatred from both sides. What blonde girl bullied Meyer in high school and made her like this???

[@pocaiesc]

I'm late to the party but hats off for actually using the SVU opening lol.

[@Chibbanee]

so meyer apparently wanted to go from twilight to breaking dawn directly. thats what she initially planned anyways. however the book blew up in popularity that she was recommended or pressured to do the 2 in middle. hence both new moon and eclipse are so underdeveloped . tbh the entire series is kinda bad world building (but i still have them)

[@scotthurr5925]

"Waited for him to finish up." There's some memories coming back... Thank you for the bluntness. I'm glad I didn't skip ahead. Your honesty, bordering on brutality of what was done is, for me, validating.

[@lionheartt15]

something I never understood was WHY Bella had nightmares after the breakup. I mean she breaks up and has nightmares cause of it? sounds more like she was in need of a therapist for undiagnosed mental problems really.

[@stephaniemasson1224]

I know teenagers are very emotional, and a person's first heartbreak is gonna be painful, but I don't think waking up screaming from nightmares every night is a normal reaction to a break-up. I really do think Bella had some undiagnosed mental illness, maybe depression. That would've been interesting to read if Meyer wasn't romanticizing everything about her depression, and implying Edward's love "saved" her

[@GamersHolyArmy]

The worst part of Rosalie's backstory is that in the hands of a better author and with some tweaks it could be really interesting. I'm imagining using the Cullens in a similar way to the traditional view of ghosts, that they have unfinished business as a human and they refuse a true death in order to complete that business except vampires don't have the prospect of "moving on" once their business is complete. Maybe Carlisle made a rule that you can't turn people without dying consent but (I don't know nor care if this fits the timeline but) maybe Esme saw Rosalie, got reminded of someone from her past and, blinded by guilt, turned her without her consent. After the rush of power, she ends up resenting being a vampire because she realized it wasn't worth it for her. It could give Rosalie an interesting dynamic with the rest of the Cullens, someone who was ready to die but got that taken away without her input in a family of people who willingly gave it up to achieve a final goal. It would also give Esme some reason to exist I guess.

[@teodoraslozoraitis7409]

Honestly, the only upside of such poorly-written, stupid and toxic stories is being entertained by watching people with critical thinking tearing them to shreds, but it would be better if the editors of the stories would simply dump them in the trash the moment their author approaches them. I know i'm probably just stating the obvious but the more I listen to accurate well-made rants about this series, the more frustrated I am for ever liking them in the first place. Again, thank you for the video, Krimson :)

[@starrynight7783]

You're right. In the new moon book the volturi had established themselves as the vampire government and had basically revealed themselves to the local government who kept their secret. They ate willing converts who wanted to become vampires, but rarely actually made vampires out of them. In the books I don't remember a specific schedule for how often vampires had to eat but it was implied that it was once every few weeks, but only outright mentioned the Cullen's having to hunt 2-3 times every book.

[@elapidpython4378]

can someone rewrite this entire series but make it from the perspective of a vampire hunter who was going after the cullens but saw all this and decided to grab some popcorn and just watch this trainwreck of a situation happen and mystery science theater it to the audience

[@exorikk]

I noticed the Nier: Automata music in the background. Good to know you have good taste in games/music as well as books and movies.

[@SqueenTangerine]

This book is horrifying but during Rosalie's scene all I could think of by the end was that her "The Revenge of the Vampire Bride" storyline sounds like a fun B-movie from the 60s. Just you know, minus the sexual assault grossness that must be included in all these insipid books.

[@anarchy7535]

I'm so torn about Charlie. On the one hand, I don't agree that he's just an asshole in Eclipse. His daughter had a relationship for a couple of months with a guy, then they broke up which sent her into an equally long WILDLY unjustified depression. From his point of view his kid was seriously hurt by a guy and then being around Jacob was the only thing that started to bring her out of it. The fact that she runs off to who knows where at the drop of a hat for guy #1 and brings him back announcing all is forgiven and slips straight back into what an outside observer like Charlie can REASONABLY assume is a deeply unhealhty relationship, is enough to put me on his side of not just being passive, but vehemently against Edward being involved with Bella at all, especially when a healthier option is right there in his best friend's kid. The issue is that Meyer completely backpedaled on Charlie as the protective father when she pretty much had him high five Jacob for attempted date-rape. It utterly undermined the entire role she'd had him in for the rest of the book. He was the one character who saw "this is not a healthy relationship, I'm not going to support it" and then wheeled around to "I'll happily support an unhealthy relationship as long as it's my ship."

[@victoriashevlin8587]

What I don't get about Rosalie saying "You have a choice..." is the the entire clan KNOW Bella has bo choice, especially now the Volturi(?) are aware of her. She dies, or she turns. That's it.

[@anansajohnson9139]

For real! If I was the Volturi, I would send someone there to make sure she gets turned on time.

[@CoolG97]

It should have been "You HAD a choice..." Rosalie made it clear in the first book she didn't want Bella as a vampire and the vampire mafia didn't know about Bella until the 2nd.

[@noelbernabe8704]

That was just Rose being dumb. She obviosuly knows that Volturi are expecting her to be turned. Her entire speech would have meant so much more if it ccured before Bellas trip to Italy.

[@psychonautmaddy7409]

Is it weird that watching your videos gives me some great insights on what to do and not to do in my current novel?

[@KrimsonRogue]

That just means I'm doing my job right. XD

[@breezy3392]

Likewise

[@tryptchthonic]

I strongly agree with that. I'm not writing a novel and haven't yet decided what medium to use for my stories, but it still helps when coming up with stories for whatever medium I go with.

[@emmetlover206]

You'd think he'd want Jasper as well. His powers are very useful. I don't remember if it was Eclipse or Breaking Dawn, but Stephanie Meyer also attacks women who are intertitle.

[@breezy3392]

Breaking Dawn, Leah Clearwater. An actually interesting character who was grossly misused

[@catc2938]

The intro immediately had me cackling