Why Do Sonic Renders Look So Bad?

[@SplashDash_]

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[@Double400]

No

[@Reg16]

No Mark! I won't

[@originaluseername]

ARE WE SERIOUSLY *_STILL_* DOING THIS?!?!

[@PlainSaber]

Install This Scam for Free ✅️

[@absoutezeo2126]

Fuck no

[@destroyerkitty9434]

I’m so happy somebody recognized the whole “Knuckles’ head is way too flat” complaint because I swear I was going crazy.

[@yaboi-rowlet]

i always felt the same even as a kid tho I feel movie knuckles fixed this by rounding the head

[@swr.nezumi]

thank you uni sock cornelius

[@moisesrosario9716]

Knuckles head render looks like a sport car fr

[@Aliix458]

​@@yaboi-rowlet movie knuckles fixed everything wrong with his game design Made him bigger, thickened his twig arms, and made him less bald

[@MattTOB618]

I thought I was bad at drawing Knuckles because I gave him a rounder head, until I realized I liked it better. Really, it's the _dreadlocks_ that I'm bad at drawing.

[@theinktician]

Trust me, kids DO see these renders and think "thats not coooooll!" - i saw it live at a walmart. They might not have fancy words like "silhoette" or anything, but kids will see the difference between "ew" "meh" and "ayo thats actually pretty sick". That's how it's always been

[@corruptedteka]

Exactly what I wanted to say, even I look at games from their art styles and design and get turned off from them just because they don't look satisfying or interesting. Kids absolutely look at this stuff. He'll it's the first thing they look at.

[@SoIstice]

Yeah, when I was a kid I could absolutely 100% tell the difference between how the Sonic Riders games had sick artwork that oozed style compared to the Sonic and All-Stars Racing games which just used renders. I actually never played the All-Stars series until I was way older cause I genuinely disliked how those games looked compared to Riders.

[@riymeep6708]

I definitely noticed this as well, even with myself when I was younger. I wasn't into Sonic in particular, but my opinions on games and other forms of media were shaped by artstyles and animation. I would tend to avoid stuff that I thought was ugly when I was younger

[@aku2136]

fr like, I grew up in the 2010s area of sonic when the renders started to get used more often but I still gravitated more to the adventure artwork because it looked alot better

[@user-vi4xy1jw7e]

​@@SoIsticeI hated the 3D art for Sonic Adventure DX, but I'm glad I still got the game.

[@CrispyLilGuy]

It really does just come down to posing imo. Some fan renders look so much nicer by just giving Sonic a more personality filled pose

[@warmination7891]

Most of it cuz of materials/textures and lighting, your ass can do any Jojo pose you want, but if your shaders suck you are stuck being plastic like

[@SirNarax]

His design absolutely has issues beyond just posing. You can make it work and Sega just never really tried that hard but it could be much easier if aspects of his character was toned down (like his hands). The Boom design was actually pretty good and he doesn't need to have sports tape and a scarf but if Sonic had proportions like Boom he'd look a lot better in more circumstances.

[@funnyman8161]

Nah The design can onky range from okay to terrible. It can never truly be great

[@theinktician]

Idk. There's nothing wrong with the Frontiers poses - the models just...smh

[@ZaiDrizzleDrop]

yeah no

[@areakastudios6704]

To put it simply: They need to be more creative with the rigging and posing. The renders look bad because they don't do much outside of just setting his limbs there. His quills, face and eyes never move enough. It sucks because they've proven that the marza design is ABSOLUTELY capable of looking better.

[@islandboy9381]

I hope Sonic Superstars expressive animation will also be applied to Modern Sonic and not just a Classic thing.

[@michaeldunlap1032]

Imo, the marza designs never looked good. They just feel like crappy recreations of the artwork designs. I mean, look at eggman, they completely got his arms wrong! His coat arms are much larger than they should be, and his shoulders are too slim, despite being drawn to have really broad looking shoulders. It just makes his head look bigger than they should look.

[@areakastudios6704]

@@michaeldunlap1032 I'm assuming you're a long time fine?

[@michaeldunlap1032]

@@areakastudios6704 um, no? I'm not, I literally joined the fandom since 2020, and even then, I notice the designs of the models looked terrible compared to the artworks.

[@areakastudios6704]

@@michaeldunlap1032 Ok, was just wondering. Also dang really? Even back in unleashed?

[@Orangeco79]

Bro spent 2 minutes on that thumbnail.

[@TreySoma]

2 minutes was all he needed

[@BestKazooist]

works w the topic of the video

[@BedBuggy]

Looks like it was made by the social media team lol

[@schedark]

That’s the point is it not

[@joewilliams-un8vu]

And it still looks legendary

[@Lana_305]

I think it's ironic how one of my favorite render of Sonic... happens to be made by Nintendo with Smash Ultimate. It sort of feels like he's being cocky while also having a pose that sort of resembles his playstyle with faster movements and how most of the aerials he has revolves around kicks which is shown in the render. Though it's also ironic how one of my favorite Mario renders... is made by SEGA with the Olympic games.

[@cirnosnumberfan6449]

Reminds me of the official render of Mario and Amy skating together.

[@sonicstar917]

Too bad Sonic's model in Smash 4 and Ultimate is freakin' soulless.

[@juneru2]

@@sonicstar917 Yup people can hate on Brawl all they want but Sonic atleast made facial expressions and had expressive taunts in that game. I'll never forgive Smash 4 and Ult for making Sonic of all characters one of the most boring, basic, and least faithful characters ever added to Smash.

[@PhantomOfficial07]

@@juneru2 Subspace Emissary completely redeems Brawl tbh

[@maravreloaded]

My favourite Mario render at least for 3D titles is Odyssey's. But you aren't ready for this conversation.

[@Discuiet]

For the longest time, it's driven me nuts how expressive Sonic and co. look in 2D art versus how soulless and goofy they look in 3D renders. Easily the best aspect of Boom was that it (mostly) fixed this, but that just drives me even nutsier because that means it's a completely fixable problem.

[@islandboy9381]

Comparing how Sonic looks in Sonic Jam art and how he looks in Sonic Superstars, man 2D easily sweeps for me no contest.

[@Breakaway-ic5gj]

3D Sonic looks badass in black knight and secret rings renders, with decent posing or lighting 3D is just as good as 2D.

[@islandboy9381]

@@Breakaway-ic5gj Secret Rings and Black Knight CGI cutscenes mad underrated fr

[@ethancroll8896]

Agreed. The bland, flavorless, upscaling and Wii copycatting of the Wii U era kinda broke me. At least from the Switch's inception to now, it does seem that that missing level of energy, effort, and care is returning to video games.

[@raze2012_]

It's partially the proportions. Modern Sonic has big hands because classic sonic has big hands. They kept it around without understanding why classic sonic needed big hands. Even then Classic Sonic's hands aren't that proportionately big compared to Modern. we're not trapped on some 64x64 sprite sheet anymore and we have the technology for proper facial and hand animation/posing. They made a good move making Sonic longer but seemed to have fired the Adventure designer halfway through the process.

[@amesstarline5482]

I will always defend Boom/Movie's choice of smaller features, because it helps not only with hand expressions, but also the readability of the faces. That and a lot of 3D Sonic unfortunately relies on grey shading and non-emotive faces. Maybe that's why I love Sonic in comic mediums- that even when IDW is playing it safe, there's more emotions overall with it and Archie, with the only drawbacks being some limits, whether it be colourists or probably the brow-ridge that nearly never moves.

[@corruptedteka]

I DESPISE gray shading. First rule of satisfying art for me when I draw is to never shade with black unless it's a really bleak or monochrome piece, and even then I avoid it. I wish they would stop that... such a big pet peeve.

[@amesstarline5482]

@@corruptedteka I'm hoping they try a more cel shading take, and more stylized models, but the eyes barely move or adapt, causing Sonic's eyes to seem more like a weird screen than anything.

[@CommanderLexaa]

@@corruptedteka best type of black shading is the one they used for Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog

[@TanyaTheGoddess]

And Eggman in boom looks so much cooler imo

[@SaturnSZN]

It wouldn't be that bad, it's just that they're so static in their posing. Like they need more dynamic angles or shots of them, kind of like the secret rings cover art or frontiers cover.

[@mint_1919]

Or Unleashed, have you seen the render on the back of the game?

[@JayJayHuman]

@@mint_1919there’s a decent one on the back of lost world’s deadly six edition cover

[@orangeslash1667]

@@mint_1919 When Sonic and his friends were brought to 3d in the Adventure game, they were redesigned by Yuji Uekawa. Sadly the only modern Sonic games he was involved with are Unleashed and Lost World. The rest were done various artists.

[@LSMark]

do you ever NOT complain????

[@savoury8134]

love ur channel

[@nfilexd]

do your videos ever get any louder

[@RosheenQuynh]

This needs more likes

[@rainpooper7088]

Can't believe LSMark would say that to his good friend Splash Dash, I'm shook.

[@Dragzilla66]

Both voices sound the same, SUS.

[@GabrylMD]

Posing and lighting go a long way. The renders themselves could also stand to be touched up a bit to feel less overly smooth as well. Mario has this problem as well.

[@emf02]

Well said. I agree that posing and lighting are important. That’s why most of the Unleashed renders of modern Sonic look so good imo. Sonic is posed well, he expresses a little bit of attitude, and the lighting is awesome. I wish Sega would go back to that type of render.

[@GordanTheToad]

Yeah the problem with Mario was especially abundant in the Wii/DS era.

[@mediamuncher69]

Mario, really? Can you elaborate? I'm very curious?

[@mediamuncher69]

@GameKnight-GK true.

[@islandboy9381]

@GameKnight-GK Finally, finally they made Mario look shorter and fatter in this new 2D game that is more accurate to his charming promotional art back in the 90s allowing for more expressive animation, those New Soup renders where he's thinner but more lifeless had to go a long time ago. EDIT: they already changed it up in Odyssey to look better but only in that game and it seems like Nintendo has completely moved past that game already.

[@Mixiilada]

I do think the models could do with some subtle tweaks, but the main problem is definitely the poses and animation. Look at sonic prime, the characters look great there, and the models aren't that far off from the ones from the games, it's just that they made some subtle tweaks like adding a bit of texture and made the animations very expressive end exaggerated.

[@yaboi-rowlet]

i rlly like the textures as i always felt Sonic felt weirdly smooth adding some fur like helps give texture

[@MonikwithDaButter]

I find so bizarre vanilla the rabbit is the only adult looking character with a different body shape that still doesn't look that weird even tho she still feels like she fits that aestethic of regular sonic style (big head/hands/feet). I wish we had more variation in character design than every animal having to copy sonic body style and not only the big strong guys having to be the tall ones

[@rainpooper7088]

Modern Archie and IDW sort of tried to push what could be done with these designs, with Modern Archie introducing more species and IDW playing more with design elements like eyes, snouts and ears, but it's still pretty bare bones in a lot of ways. At least the male character designs do get to pick between skinny, fat and bulky, meanwhile Thunderbolt the Chinchilla is the only character I can think of that actually tried to push the envelope on how female characters can look in that art style.

[@TusharSundarka]

What about big the cat

[@emu-bramble64]

im so glad that other people feel this way about these renders ive hated them since i was a kid

[@paulgilbert5278]

Yeah I preferred the edgier shiny renders from the early-mid 2000s

[@lemon5000-tj6nv]

​@@paulgilbert5278those heroes renders looked ugly asf imo

[@moosesues8887]

@@lemon5000-tj6nvyeah reminds me of early video game cgi

[@mediamuncher69]

​@@lemon5000-tj6nvI liked them. Besides the shine.

[@ruvixgk1]

Tbh i love them i mean i know they look stiff but hey they look cool for me, i mean don't get me wrong i like almost all of the official renders from sonic (going trought the génesis era till modern era) but to be honest i don't like the sonic adventure 1 and the sonic 06 renders i mean it's not like that i hate them but for some reason seeing them so shinny is just unappealing for me, but hey if you want to disagree with me you're free to do it after all u do u i guess XDDDD

[@ExistingKirb]

I think what irks me the most about these renders is how the mouths look really unnerving for some reason, it makes it look like Sonic’s lips got stung by a bee or something. (See 4:45 and 4:50 for examples of what I mean.)

[@benmalsky9834]

i don't think that way at all, to me, they look normal

[@TheEmeraldSword04]

I think a big issue is how defined the lips are with the dimples and curls, they look just a tad too natural. Posing is also an issue as Sonic is a cartoon character meant to be in motion, and the still renders are very stiff and don't do many exaggerated poses, having more extreme angles in the leans, or stretching the limbs slightly would make it more interesting.

[@TeamSoraPresents]

I'm a little surprised you didn't say anything about the texture mapping on the characters' "fur". Like sometimes, the blue on Sonic has these streaks that I guess(?) is supposed to stand in for actual quills, but if so it blends /too much/ into the overall shape of his spikes. Movie Sonic makes that work by rendering the individual quills, but that's easy on a Hollywood budget.

[@CTOACN]

I know some renders that makes Sonic's blue look...so weird and off.

[@ethancroll8896]

Sorta reminds me how although I like and approve it Sonic's in level looks in Sonic Rush and the DS port of Sonic Colors (I own the Wii version also, and am of the opinion that both ports have some of the most stunning graphics on the DS or the Wii). I have no clue why, but an off kilter mix of typical game Sonic royal blue, and Sonic X navy blue factor into Sonic's Rush Adventure appearance. I've only played Rush Adventure a few times via renting it from the now defunct chain, Family Video (more or less the Southeast Iowa/Northwest Illinois border equivalent of Blockbuster) yet I remember having thought: Sonic blue is supposed to be closer in shading to anime water, or royal blue than navy blue or VCR blue screen blue.

[@CTOACN]

@@ethancroll8896 Yeah.Some renders of Sonic I found or even some verson of Sonic and sega all stars racing also has the navy blue.

[@maravreloaded]

Tell that to Ratchet and Clank since the nexus saga or even f(u)cking STARFOX ADVENTURES FOR THE NINTENDO GAMECUBE.

[@maravreloaded]

Crash Bandicoot remakes with more of a furry texture approach. And yeah those games run on Switch stop excusing Sega's laziness blaming Nintendo for their mistakes.

[@angryaries5147]

i feel like even the way they use expressions on the models look stiff? like, instead of using the brows for extra emotion, they just use the eyelids and it's super weird and feels empty. other than that, completely agreed. great video!

[@mm123gchannel9]

My personal issue with these are how harsh the shading and texturing looks on most of them. Like with the glossy glass like eyes, the stains or damage on the shoes, the noticeably large gaps of thread on the gloves, the weirdly tiny lips on the mouth, the arm sockets on Sonic’s body, or with the barely noticeable fur texture that really stands out when everything else is super textured. I don’t hate these renders but they feel pretty outdated compared to some of the newer ones with better lighting and textures, making the old ones feel like they would have looked good back then but rough now.

[@rainpooper7088]

THANK YOU! For years I thought I was crazy for thinking Modern Knuckles looks weird, yet never being able to quite put my finger on why. I was introduced to this character through the Classic sprites and Sonic X and loved his design there, yet I always thought he looked really boring in the Modern art style.

[@bababobo5067]

I agree. Especially with the hands being to big… I kinda wish they’d just use the Uekawa art for the games again. Hell, do a cel-shaded Sonic game or something. His character design looks best when it’s done in 2D art, so I think they should adopt a more stylized art look for future games.

[@Stuffies2022]

As much as I enjoy the Uekawa art, i would prefer if every game went for a different artstyle altogether.

[@darthtyranus787]

They tried to do cel shade with aonic shuffle.And it looked kinda good

[@speedboom9392]

Here’s the thing. The current look of Sonic is actually my favorite look…sometimes. In stuff like Unleashed and Generations, And specifically in stuff like the CGI Unelashed Opening it’s my favorite look because in those instances the animators make I expressive and come to life. That should be the staple of Sonic Renders IMO.

[@yaboi-rowlet]

Sonic Prime also does this well😊

[@aliasella488]

@@yaboi-rowlet Sonic Prime looks fantastic

[@priscilaarcos87]

They should make the renders fit better with the adventure art style and experiment more with the in game model with things like cell shading

[@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778]

I miss the adventure style. I felt like it was the coolest.

[@islandboy9381]

Someone did a reanimated video of Heroes cutscenes with the Modern Sonic model and it looks very expressive and amazing.

[@JakeThehedgehog-m1x]

No I prefer modern sonic model than adventure model

[@THESHINIGAMIPOSSE]

Bro. I get it. But it’s okay you don’t have to apologize for exercising your observational skills. Picking niche topics like this and diving deep with it also really makes you appreciate the little details in all sorts of media. Never apologize for that❤️ great video keep it up fr

[@corruptedteka]

Large agree !

[@thabreez456]

I think the big hands and head situation needs to be addressed by SEGA really soon. I think SEGA needs to give a slight overall update to the artstyle to make them easier to animate. Both Boom and Movie sonic understandably found the, hard to animate and even sonic prime. Literally any iteration of the character in a animated form has had to shrink it down. Forces gave sonic slightly smaller arms and frontiers used that to give us better animated cutscenes that don’t feel so stiff. I think subtle changes like that is what we need for fluid cutscene animation something the franchise has struggled with for a long time now. I honestly think Sonic’s Design in 06’s CGI cutscenes is the perfect design for him to be animated well.

[@corruptedteka]

Exactly ! They need to adjust the character proportions and anatomy a little.

[@lordx7013]

Are the heads really a problem? I mean they look as big as they need to be, the hands tho

[@thabreez456]

@@lordx7013 nah when it’s so big like that alongside the hands it’s hard to make it have snappy movements.

[@lordx7013]

@@thabreez456 they aren't that big, it's the hands, THEY look janky af, the heads were always as big as that, take a look at older models

[@ドラゴンリュー-f1x]

The problem with Sonic's model may be that Mario, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Crash, etc. have been relatively close to the artwork in recent years, but the difference from the design is drastic.

[@kyethememer9836]

These renders have never bothered me before but now that you've pointed it out my thoughts are: oh shit you're right.

[@GamerTheVoidGamingCentre]

I think one thing they could do to shift up the artstyle is go for sharper edges like the 2D art of Sonic Riders. The Sonic Colors render you showed did exactly that, and when he’s animated in 2D, Sonic’s always given sharper edges as well. Sonic in the beginning was designed as an antithesis of Mario, so while he goes more round and soft, make Sonic more rough and sharp. Could be some fun visual contrast.

[@GordanTheToad]

I think what they should do is tweek the designs just a little bit, use better lighting, incorporate better posings, and make them more expressive. I feel as though Sonic Prime has given us a good idea of how pretty and expressive Sonic and his friends could look. Btw I totally agree with you on Knuckles. I think if Sega were to tweek the designs of Sonic's cast, Knuckles should be given special attention. He just doesn't give off the powerful echidna warrior vibe he should have. He honestly looks kinda wimpy to me.

[@ExaltedArchvile]

What always bugged me about Modern Sonic's model is how he always has his mouth on the side of his face, obviously this is so that they can do the side smirk thing, but when he actually talks it's just one of the many things that make him look "off". Especially if you're looking at him from a front-on perspective. Which is why I'm glad for things like Sonic Boom and Sonic Prime, they decided to make his mouth centered so that it looks at least a bit more organic and expressive.

[@TechBlade9000]

Sonic Prime doesn't middle mouth, they use all the positions, like Sonic was suppose to, like Sonic DID do since Sonic 1 that stopped in SA1 because Dreamcast

[@tardissins7512]

I think the biggest thing about Sonic in modern renders at least, is the emphasis on his mouth and having his mouth open too much. If you cut the 3D mouth and just drew a cartoony one on his muzzle instead, it would already improve the renders tenfold.

[@bottomtext593]

Sonic's design flourishes best when his style is more "curvy" and well rounded. Current Sonic Model is too stiff to flex that aspect about Sonic, with sharp edges in all the wrong places. For instance. > The edge where his eye ends along his muzzle > His stiff, straight limbs > Spines have zero flow to the rest of his body, despite them being his trademark > Bulky shoes break the flow of his poses. > Eyebrow crease makes his head feel cut in half for the reason its extended too far up his head > Socks and glove creases are TOO round and TOO big in contrast to the rest of his body and makes it hard on the eyes > Mouth feels too gaping and sometimes his visible lips ruin everything > For the size of Sonic's hands, they are too realistic and angular that it destroys his aesthetic > Massive eyes are the first thing you see and the fact that they don't look good is already jarring.

[@theboredsaint5874]

I always knew i just needed someone to speak out on the renders

[@treyvonishere4375]

Very sad we don’t get 2D art with Sonic as much. Ironic cause he looks best in 2D.

[@RealChoopgood1]

Modern sonic only works in 2d unlike classic sonic, which what is shown to work in 3-D

[@mushroomdude123]

These feel like valid criticisms. There’s a lot of nuance that goes into charater design and 3d renders, so it’s hard to talk about it without sounding nitpicky. I really miss when they experimented more with the art style. Battle and Riders had so much personality.

[@superhedgehog6447]

I love the Sonic riders series art style. It's so slick and cool.

[@mart5610]

Sonic Riders art style was kinda bad. The extra thick arms and legs and huge hands and shoes look terrible. You guys like to nitpick about the renders but praise the cgi in the games like the Unleashed opening. saying thats the best. Also praising the game cover arts. when the cgi and renders and all use the same Sonic model.

[@Albino_Basilisk]

An example of good “universal” promotional art (for me) would be Scott Johnson’s Spider-Man. Now that’s ICONIC

[@WeAreNotExperts2007]

I think it’s because we’ve been so used to the 2D renders since the start and only recently we’ve started seeing 3D renders in all their uncanniness.

[@TeamSnowglobeCO]

This is why the 2d cover art is superior i still miss them because they APPEAL to the audience

[@justinarzola4584]

I always prefered the 2d artwork for sonic and mario compared to the generic 3d models that lack emotion and are very generic to appeal to the wide kid audience for store merchandise.

[@AnnStyle]

​@@justinarzola4584yes

[@iceman92211]

How on earth did you not mention anything about the mouth and how it’s inconsistent for every character ? Some characters have side mouth Sonic ,Shadow ,Knuckles ,Rouge ,Espio ,Silver While others have a middle mouth Amy ,Tails ,Cream ,Blaze ,Charmy

[@Gnidel]

I hate side mouth so much.

[@dreamsdeep1076]

Side months have always been a series stable for Sonic. Guess you love Nintendo’s Sonic more in sports games

[@traviscunningham7062]

You mean Mario?

[@Gnidel]

@@dreamsdeep1076 Just because it's a staple doesn't mean I like it. It looks fine in 2D, but 3D should stick to middle mouth.

[@dreamsdeep1076]

@@Gnidel hard disagree.

[@SamInsaneGaming]

1:55 you can't hide him, he always comes back

[@Sillywillywonkah]

Yes i do

[@BlueJack222]

I am surprised you did not talk about how some of 2D artworks tried to imitate the 3D renders

[@Lumiiify]

Is it just my headphones or is this video incredibly quiet? My volumes maxxed out and its like im listening to mark record the video from another room

[@chaoticspice3075]

agreeed

[@pandaraph]

I hate the weird hotdog bun lips sonic has when hes smirking in some of the art you mentioned. Totally agree with your take

[@ActuallyZaHando]

Great video on the sonic renders. I realized this maybe a year ago while thinking about the models and how bad they look but then thought about how they can look amazing in some renders and then like complete crap in others. I realized that it's really the horrible renders that make these model look worse than they really are. They still need to update the models tho.

[@benmalsky9834]

I think he is being overreative.

[@-KORAL_ZERO]

I love TSR’s Renders, they look so clean and polished and the proportions look so good. I especially love Sonic’s silhouette and knuckles’ model.

[@castform7]

*Someone brings up a small, general, inconciquential detail about Sonic in a positive light while acknowledging it's smallness* Sonic fans: That's really cool. *Someone brings up a small, general, inconciquential detail about Sonic in a negative light while acknowledging it's smallness* Sonic fans: Burn it with fire! Boy, do I just *love* it when people decide something is bad purely because it's negative.

[@the-open-end2975]

i do think the sonic cast need either a remodel or the tiniest redesign (mainly designing them so that they have smaller hands, feet, eyes ect..) They could also use that to fix some of the noticeable rigging limitations and give them a bit more character in their design. also i think Amy needs a larger redesign shes so plain... but thats just me at the end of the day it doesn't matter and i dont really care

[@justinarzola4584]

Tails and amy definitely need redesigns.

[@corruptedteka]

Hey here's hoping the sequel to Frontiers happens after a little timeskip so we can actually get some improved designs ! Heck you could make the characters have slightly less kiddy proportions just with that excuse.

[@PolloLocoTheFun]

Modern Amy's dress has been the hardest design for me coming in late to the Sonic franchise. So the return Classic Amy's outfit has been such a breath of fresh air!

[@greenstarforce001]

Nah, Amy's design is fine

[@WaiGee_]

Kids very much can tell the difference, its just that they arent old enough or experienced enough to know how to express it.

[@Coffee-Cath]

There are still people who pronounce Mario wrong?

[@sophiebubbles07]

These renders were the thing I remember most out of early and mid 2010s Sonic. They were everywhere. You couldn’t escape them.

[@superhedgehog6447]

Yeah, I remember when I first became a big Sonic fan around 2014, and these renders of Sonic and his friends were the first thing I saw the most.

[@SUTAZZZ]

5:04 I CAN'T BREATHE LMAO

[@Miguelito9898]

1:31 Ah yes, Super Merry-o...

[@hamzamohamed6774]

I WAS LOOKING FOR THIS COMMENT

[@Furby-luv3r]

Americans 😂

[@ShaneStapler]

5:50 after noticing there was no divide between sonics eyes like knuckles has, i started hating how huge his eyes were because it looks like the majority of his head is some freakish cyclope abomination

[@bandaluncios8943]

3D Knuckles staring at us is scary

[@strengthcolossal5538]

*Oh No!*

[@unnamed12346]

The renders are fine, by and large, but I definitely would wanna see them take a bit of some cues from the original Classic, Adventure, and even to an extent, Unleashed designs to really give Sonic a design that carries his charm as well as fixes some issues like how big his eyes are

[@islandboy9381]

I think the Marza model is already great on it's own when you look at Sonic Unleashed opening cutscenes or those Werehog specials, very cartoony movement and expressive. It's just Sega being corporate lazy.

[@unnamed12346]

@@islandboy9381 Oh yeah, definitely. It's just the genuinely lack of proper expressions done with the face for such a cartoony design that feels lifeless. Admittedly I am biased towards the Adventure era proportions, especially on the eyes, moreso than the Unleashed ones.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@unnamed12346 When Sonic and his friends were brought to 3d in the Adventure game, they were redesigned by Yuji Uekawa. Sadly the only modern Sonic games he was involved with are Unleashed and Lost World. The rest were done various artists.

[@ILikeMinecraftALot]

with most of the renders with the hedgehogs, when they had their mouths closed, it always had a weird looking shape to it, like an over bite or with like that lol

[@IAmAGyroGamer]

The giant head and hands problem you've pointed had also been pointed out by Dan Floyd in his Animation of Sonic Games video. Dan is an animator, used to work with PIXAR Canada for the Partysaurus Rex short. He made the same criticism you made about how disproportionate the hands and head look in Modern Sonic. And why Boom Sonic have fixed up the problems.

[@roobe3501]

Don’t get me wrong, Sonic characters CAN look GOOD in 3D. But truthfully, I don’t think there IS any perfect 3D Sonic. He’s a 2D character made for a 2D environment. The emphasis on his silhouette and the expressiveness of his design just can’t be captured in 3D. It’s why the Mania Shorts and the OVA look so goddamn good, because they put Sonic in the style he was MADE for.

[@Paciorek2137]

1:50 get the bag king 👑

[@foxcollr831]

I absolutely agree. Take the birthday render for example... Sonic has this weird, lifeless smile that curls inward in this awkward way. His smile is always scrunched up, or his mouth is very slightly open and wrinkled at the corners for some reason. I don't mind the SIZE of his eyes too much, it's just they keep getting more reflective over time and now they look very glassy and lifeless. It definitely doesn't help that his poses are always very stiff, and his spines are often facing away from view so you just see the front of his head... and in that regard it doesn't help that his spines have gotten shorter and very stiff, so not being able to see them just makes him look kind of weird. Forces looked like it had some neat ideas but still made Sonic have huge mitts and feet, but Frontiers looks like it reigned it in a little bit and they did a way better job with posing the character and making him seem ALIVE. Overall I feel like the current renders tend to feel very lifeless and soulless and kind of devoid of style. The "style" they're going for always seems like some offshot of a Disney character, it feels very "default" and it feels like it lacks an identity.

[@benmalsky9834]

Well think about it, the modern designs of Sonic and friends WERE inspired by Disney and even Looney Tunes characters, so to me they are acceptable.

[@mannysworld3713]

Funny story so my school doesn't know much about sonic so I ask all my friends to choose which sonic model looks better a generic official modern render or a fan made render that looks like the sa2 art which looks great in my opinion, and every single one of my friends prefer the generic model they all said it's because it looks familiar that just goes to show how popular that model is to general audiences.

[@maverick_finn]

3:58 for me, Prime Sonic is the best render till now. It has all the life that the current promotional renders do not have. Also Movie Sonic. like pls

[@evdomos]

The Murder of Sonic art is really what they should start using going forward.

[@Qoobon_]

Its 2d

[@Lar_me]

@@Qoobon_ So were the classic games, and most of us love those. A new 2D Sonic with smooth lineart instead of pixel art would be very cool.

[@Mr.Feather130]

You know,I feel like the Kirby franchise did right for the renders on the Characters by making them unique looking in each different game without making them feel generic

[@PAHG2]

I will always love the current Sonic models, but I can agree that sometimes they look goofy. I just kinda like the way they look, with them having that Pixar CGI look to 'em, specifically in pre-rendered cutscenes and trailers with how cool they look in action. IDK, it's just a preferenece, and it most likely has to do with the fact that my first exposure to Sonic was the Generations CGI Opening, which has arguably the same look. Also, why is the video so quiet-

[@deanmoriarty6015]

i’d bet the reason the Superstars renders for the side characters (specifically Knuckles) look so good is because they were forced to create a brand new render because one of classic Knuckles didn’t exist yet, meanwhile they’re reusing the same ones for Classic and Modern Sonic from over 10 years ago

[@rainpooper7088]

*Sonic R Knuckles intensifies*

[@wideface344]

Not an over reaction at all. While sonic is a product at the end of the day he is an expression of art as well. And all of your points here are very valid

[@soufianegamerpro]

the thing that made me confused, is that sonic is a hedgehog and hedgehogs has spines and quills but sonic looks like he just has banana looking hair

[@joadarium9605]

Honestly so relieved the new Sonic Superstar game has new renders that look good and a breath of fresh air. But I do hope they give Modern Sonic new renders that actually look good and full of life with detail like with Nintendo and Mario Odyssey. So glad I’m not the only one who thinks this. The 06 and Unleashed cinematic cutscene renders are amazing and I’d love to see their own twist on something like that.

[@Vixic]

6:17 that's funny because Spongebob and Knuckles have the same VA in French

[@juneru2]

Modern Sonic has been very lifeless for awhile, feels more like a guy in a mascot suit than an actual character. They don't animate his eye shape at all, they animate him in mo-cap in alot of cutscenes, and his gloves and shoes are so big they can't be put anywhere.

[@JoseGregorioValeroVillarroel]

The renders have been like this since 2010!

[@Mamin9k]

Oh god, Sonic really does need a flat face, he looks too goofy in close up shots nowadays

[@perplexingjester4935]

Honestly, as much as people hate Sonic 2006 for obvious reasons, I find the edgier designs very charming (well... not so much in game). 06 was my first exposure to modern sonic as a child, and yes while nostalgia probably plays a big part in it, those depictions of sonic in the artwork, in the cutscenes, and the loading screen really stuck with me. I think it does in fact have to do with the personality in his poses and expression. They really felt like they matched the character. Although to this day, I still have no clue what they were thinking with that eggman redesign.

[@phootaphan9166]

Yeah, I think one of the things that really still feels off to me in Frontiers is the fact that you have this serious storyline, huge boss battles with metalcore music blaring, but all the character designs look straight out of Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. They're missing that edge from Adventure-'06, and it makes things feel...weird.

[@Ninetails2000]

One thing in particular that always irks me is their mouths. Their mouths are so weird and lumpy, it's like they're all suffering from the mumps. It looks especially bad when characters are doing a closed mouth smirk, the sides of their mouths just look so chunky and they don't fit with how their muzzle shape looks. Amy always gets it the worst. She always ends up looking like she's holding a pair of marbles in the sides of her mouth.

[@raidlandguy]

Glad I'm not the only one bothered by Knuckles' current model. SEGA had made the best Knuckles model for M&S 2006 and never used it again.

[@RafzCampz]

Ball sack

[@raineskempen3191]

I appreciate this video so much. I’ve always been a huge Sonic fan, and almost every time I look at a sonic merch or posters, I just get disappointed cuz of how much missed potential it has.

[@charlesonjr3rdpikmin]

I personally, love seeing you complain. You have very interesting points and its very fun to listen to you discuss your thoughts on a topic while thinking about my own on that same topic.

[@imselfaware419]

Complaining is an art shunned by toxic positivity.

[@Cherryify]

the most replayed bit was straight after the sponsor

[@TheRealDasher]

0:27 does anyone know what is this song?

[@JerehJerry]

press garden zone act 2 from sonic mania

[@TheRealDasher]

​@@JerehJerry thx bro

[@Skynetbear]

I’m genuinely so happy you covered how big there hands are For me it always made sense for Tails and Knuckles. Knuckles is pretty obvious, but in Tails’ case he canonically wears boxing gloves to weigh down his front to steer his flight Meanwhile Sonic and ESPECIALLY Amy have hands bigger than any other part of their body for no reason

[@Kiezly]

What I would do to make sonic better: Make the head, hands and shoes smaller. Add necks and clothing for male characters. Stop being a age 4+ franchise and become a age 13+ franchise, make a seperate sub-franchise for classic sonic, turn modern sonic into adventure sonic, take more shonen influence from dragon ball and JoJo.

[@MDRUM-lb6gt]

knuckles got older and his hairline receded.

[@Eva-uw6uo]

I think another part of the issue (in my opinion, tho this is a common one) is that the character's arms weren't intended to bend realistically at the elbow like they do now- at least not all the time. They were more curved to give an almost rubberhose animation era splash of class to otherwise very edgy modern designs, which paired well with their proportions and white glove motifs. Granted I do think his proportions have improved, but if you're gonna keep the big hands then the arms should be bendy, not angular. It makes it more stylistic and dynamic even during static poses. But if you *must* keep the elbow bend, then make their hands and feet smaller to compensate. Like the inconsistencies in the models themselves are basically a microcosm of the franchise now- inconsistent. But given how well Frontiers and the Sonic movies have done and Ian Flynn and Tyson Hesse being involved and fans themselves, I'm hoping this is the prelude to a comeback.

[@LuneNova]

I don't know why they modelized Sonic to makes him stiff like a straw and make him walk like he's entirely leg/arm casted. I don't understand. 2000's Sonic don't have this problem indeed.

[@DaNintendude]

I think SEGA really just needs to realize that it's okay to redesign characters. (I don't mean drastically, btw.) If you look at Mario, he has redesigns like every 3 or 4 years, it's crazy. And they're not massive redesigns, but you can still notice a lot of features in renders and games that was altered. And sometimes it's not even consistent across games. If you look at Odyssey's Mario and compare it to Mario Strikers Battle League's Mario-- they're not the same. And now with Super Mario Wonder, and the Super Mario RPG remake, we're seeing pretty large stylistic changes that adapt the character to look more appealing in different scenarios. And if you compare the in-game Wonder Mario to the Mario in Wonder's key-art, you'll see a huge difference. And it's because the key-art uses some of the current models they use for promotional renders, probably for consistency's sake. It's funny because Yoshi's design is drastically altered in-game, yet his promo render looks the same as always. And Yoshi really is the key here. It can be hard to change a design that is so cemented and recognizable-- but sometimes you have to! And you know what? Most people won't notice! I'm willing to bet most of the people reading this have no idea that Donkey Kong got a redesign in 2015, and that Mario Kart 8's DK model is outdated because of it. I know my main problem is less with the model and more with how Sonic is posed and animated. They look like mascot costumes, but with altered models, that wouldn't be as big of a problem. My biggest problem is actually Sonic's mouth, and how it's animated. They use constant side-mouth in games like Frontiers and it looks horrible. Sonic should be able to use center-mouth in a lot of situations, and only use side-mouth when it fits.

[@SPIDERKN1GHT0327]

I honestly love the designs in Sonic Prime. They took the standard modern models, and added so much flare to them. Sonic’s eyes were made a little smaller and flatter, he has a way better shade of blue now, and every character has fur detailing. The Amy design from Sonic Prime is my new favorite design for Amy. I feel like Sonic Prime added some flare to the older models, and their so expressive in that show. Overall, Sonic Prime has made the modern designs WAY BETTER

[@whact]

its funny how even though Sonic The Fighters was the introduction to 3D for sonic, his model from that game is still my favorite one, like it's all polygonal but it still looks so good

[@thenerdlog1602]

I unironically think scarf sonic is one of the better 3d designs. It clearly defines a neckline and works to establish his speed when taking a render.

[@superplushultra356]

Yeah, I agree like renders from TSR & Frontiers are probably in my eyes the best renders But yes Sonic renders do need improvement to fully show the Character at its Prime

[@gnf_2.056]

Sonic Prime?

[@jytvreal]

@SplashDash_ or LS mark, 3:19 Sonic was redefined in Sonic and The Secret Rings. Long before unleashed

[@rockyandyipper]

I don't know how he forgot about secret rings, but I wouldn't mind forgetting about it lol. Jk I never played it.

[@KidRunnerH]

Sonic and the gang looked their absolute BEST with the Boom redesign. They pose better, they’re expressive as hell. And they have better silhouettes.

[@memelord7643]

Tbh in my opinion thats why i always liked how the younger sonic looked back in the older games ans now with orgins and superstars makes me go like he looks soo good i dont get why they decided to go with the sonic we have not when the other one looks so much better

[@myakudoyoru]

Promotional material could've stayed as the Uwekawa style and not only would it look better, it'd be a staple of Sonic's design.

[@UltraCenterHQ]

It's probably because they've been using it so much that it just becomes boring

[@TheMarshmallowMushroom]

they also fail to use any other color of light than flourescent white in the renders you're talking about, which makes them look as if they were photographed in a hospital

[@EccentricSandal]

One of my BIGGEST nitpicks, one i have seen absolutely nobody point out, is how the white shine in Sonic's irises is coming from the BOTTOM of his pupil. This implies that the light sources are always coming from BELOW Sonic's eye level, and it always looked terrible to me. Sonic Prime fixed this, and it strangely looks infinitely better because it's more in-line with other cartoony character depictions. This problem wasn't something they started doing until Unleashed, so certain nuances like this have added up over the last 10 years to give us such a bland and offputting design for all the Sonic characters' renders.

[@rainpooper7088]

I think the reason why no one complains is because literally everyone ignores that shit when doing fan art, even literal children drawing in MSP place the highlight at the top because even they instinctively know that's where it belongs. This isn't even a weird stylistic choice thing like with Mario (Mario's standard 2D art positions eye highlights inside or outside of the pupil depending on whether the character is male or female), it's just outright wrong, especially in 3D where you can see the effects of the light source extremely accurately everywhere else. In art school, this would definitely get you marked down, but I do get why no one on the internet actively takes issue with it.

[@tsitra360]

That door knock sound made my dog bark lol.

[@Joshi_ForReal]

I was literally only saying recently how the Amy render in the twitter takeover looks terrible

[@capoditutticapi6528]

The fact that splash dash mentioned sonic superstars means it doesn't take him a week or even a month to make a video

[@sadiesm]

video is oddly quiet