The Forgotten Sonic Moves

[@SplashDash_]

wow, a new ideo!! Only took 2 months!

[@Brian_Griffin_Gaming]

I have your home address

[@charmingmagican9821]

Congratulations

[@jubeasta0135]

Ideo

[@SwiftGamer-YT]

wowzers

[@norpheus6305]

New idea or new video?

[@hendester05]

Sonic's forgotten ability: ROLLING.

[@reverendfatheruncleruckus7059]

I think the last mainline game to have it was sonic 3&k what a joke.

[@hendester05]

@@reverendfatheruncleruckus7059 Actually, the advance and rush games were the last games that used it.

[@NoNamex1412]

​@@hendester05actually it was sonic superstars

[@NamelessCrusad3r]

@@NoNamex1412superstars isnt mainline

[@NamelessCrusad3r]

It’s a spin-off using classic sonic

[@Itz_Kwame]

He can’t even compete in the Olympics anymore due to this amnesia🤦🏾‍♂️

[@fr0stdr4ke95]

Nah. Just NFTs.

[@TheSultan1470]

​@@fr0stdr4ke95 Cool! Sonic'll make an actual profit!

[@derple8524]

He won't be able to compete at all, none of them will 😭

[@animosity3771]

bro is ash ketchum

[@bluemike1215]

The Olympic games series got canceled I think.

[@Koko-cy4ff]

The springs actually do have different functionality. You cannot use the homing attack on the classic springs. And... that's it. But there is a difference!

[@JustinJulian-00]

How is that supposed to make sense it would have been useful if you can use the homing attack on those springs and also Sonic feels slow in cyberspace even when I use the boost he doesn't even feel fast and cyberspace to me are nothing more than filler levels because the only thing you get from them are just portal keys and due to the fact that's they reuse the same designs from Green Hill chemical plant and even sky century why don't they give us the level designs from the adventure games or the storybook games or unleashed or even colors of all people don't you agree that we are tired of the same levels like Green Hill like chemical plant and sky sanctuary over and over again if anything those levels from those previous games never even got in Sonic frontiers or even a motorized design of them

[@Magnet_Chaos]

​​@@JustinJulian-00 First, I want to introduce you to this thing called "Punctuation". Sebond, the Classic Springs are not meant to be useful. They are just meant to be another aspect of the level to keep in mind. Because if you can use the homing attack on them then they are no different from the Modern Spring. So at that point why even have them? Everything else you mentioned is an entirely different conversation.

[@isaiahkern9434]

@@Magnet_Chaos Second, I want to introduce you to this thing called "Autocorrect." (I'm joking here, just poking for fun, not actually serious.)

[@chocov1233]

​@@JustinJulian-00The reason why it's always those stages is mostly because they get to reuse assets from Generations and maybe Unleashed. Generations already has some Unleashed assets I believe, like Skyscraper Scamper billboards in Speed Highway, City Escape, and Perfect Chaos.

[@chocov1233]

I see. So basically they're there to keep you on your toes, like the horizontal spring pole things introduced in Sonic Advance (I think, might be in a few classic levels) that got used in Dimps games untill being brought into basically all the boost games. They serve almost the purpose as springs but they function just different enough to make you pay attention.

[@YetAnotherLetsPlayer]

Fun fact: the spin dash is actually in the PS2/Wii version of Unleashed. If you press the boost button right when GO appears you'll spin dash. Get the timing perfect and you'll also fill up a boost bar for free

[@JustinJulian-00]

Yeah I have done that a few times playing this version of Sonic unleashed and you can do that while you're on dash panels as well

[@gManGabe]

Sonic will also spin if he hits a dash panel while boosting. No gameplay effect, just visual+sound.

[@VermillionDBL]

It's so satisfying.

[@elivcdxv1852]

only minorly related but god drifting looked cool in unleashed

[@LilXancheX]

I literally discovered that as a 12 year old one day. I thought I was a genius for that

[@SwellStuff483]

It will never not piss me off that Sonic doesn’t have the drift in Cyberspace since the left shoulder button (which is used for the Sonic Boom attack in the overworld) doesn’t do anything.

[@valtheemokid4005]

It's literally the literal move he needs because he can barely turn for shit on turns

[@JustinJulian-00]

Yeah man Sonic can't even drift in cyberspace like you wanted to be because sonic just goes against the wall if you were trying to turn left or right for example you can only do that in certain areas of cyberspace that should have been one of the main movesets for Sonic so I can drift and tight corners much easier while maintaining my speed

[@dolomite1067]

Not until you unlock the Spin Dash, but, yeah.

[@sonicdml4175]

You can slide

[@JustinJulian-00]

@@sonicdml4175 I know I can slide I just can't drift in certain areas of cyberspace and drifting is all about turning in sharp corners and drifting and sliding is not the same thing

[@RefreshingMirage]

Watching this video made me realize how inconsistent this franchise’s game design is and how many moves it doesn’t have anymore, and also how the rules break even with the very same moveset

[@HazzMataz]

Yeah same, I didn’t realise it at first

[@TheSultan1470]

You just realized Sonic is rough?

[@geoffreyrichards6079]

Well… at least it keep the series from getting stale.

[@kingbash6466]

It still pisses me off that parkour has practically been left to rot in Lost World since that's actually a cool mechanic that could have been explored more if they bothered fleshing it out (no I don't count Frontiers, since they only cover certain colored walls.)

[@Rusty_Spy]

I'll never forgive Sonic Team for that

[@KiiBon]

If only Lost World was a good game

[@reginlief1]

Classic being from a different dimension wouldn’t have been lame if they did what I THOUGHT they were doing with that plot. The phantom Ruby was already doing some weird dimension-y stuff in mania. I was confident the villains Infinte was using were plucked from timelines that they had been victorious in. A chaos that had wiped out all life, a shadow that had followed through with his plans, a zavok that… lost hexed all over the place? Idk I never played lost world. Instead, they’re just… projections? Copies? They’re lame. The phantom Ruby was undermined and a great potential story arc for all four of those villains was missed. Just IMAGINE shadow talking to a past self that didn’t realise Maria’s true last wish…

[@HOTD108_]

That's an awful idea. If there are alternate timelines where other outcomes happened, then the events of each game become meaningless. It's the ultimate tension killer. Sonic's victory in any given game means nothing is there's infinite timelines where he lost and everyone died, and vice versa. It's impossible to introduce a multiverse into a series without erasing all meaning from any and all plots.

[@zacnmac]

lost hexed all over the place 😭

[@tgbell6567]

@@HOTD108_I disagree, it can be done extremely well. Just look at the Spider-Verse movies

[@fabiosonhandogrande1697]

​@@HOTD108_It's basically needing a "main timeline" that stays focused on. With how Sonic goes, the idea'd only be in Forces. Unless manipulated, the other timelines wouldn't matter... Just do it 'cuz it's cool this one time, then move on as Sonic tends to do

[@_veloxity91]

Multiverse stories only work when there's a set number of them and each universe is different from one another (including characters)

[@fryguy9704]

At least all of us can agree that Sonic’s moves change almost every week.

[@pass_]

can't wait for sonic to use the infinate jumping mini sonic crystal in sonic movie 3

[@evdestroy5304]

Purple Gem

[@jubeasta0135]

Sonic prime can NOT be canon bruh what😭

[@Nebnub]

When everything is Canon nothing is

[@blubrrybeanie]

@@Nebnubi mean basically nothing happened in the end right?

[@Kirb01992]

Pretty sure they confirmed it was canon

[@killerblodychuky6]

They said that the show was made to be canon but that after production started the writers of the show at Netflix disregarded pre existing canon and did whatever they wanted

[@rando6677]

I mean it is but Season 3 ending pretty much just makes all of what actually happens in the show useless soo Idk even

[@RyderPlatinumWarpstar]

Funnily enough, Frontiers technically goes back to the way the boost gauge fills up in Unleashed in Generations as well because collecting rings while boosting (when you don't have an unlimited boost that is) will fill your gauge back up slowly, so collecting rings while boosting is useful in Cyber Space. Just a fin tidbit. They're going back to how it works in Unleashed and Generations in Shadow Generations, so that's fun. They better have the wall jump in there too.

[@sonicdml4175]

In Gens it also filled up by defeating enemies, which I don't think it does in Frontiers or Shadow Gens

[@JasLamArr91]

Hot Take: I liked the parkour in Lost World. It was wonky though.

[@Bobo12300]

It was a neat idea that should have been properly expanded upon in a game like Fontiers

[@felixdaniels37]

Lost World had a lot of cool ideas that I felt like could've worked had Sonic Team actually STUCK with the gameplay they were going for and fleshed it out going forward. Instead they just cowarded out and made Forces, a game specifically created to appeal to as wide an audience as possible.

[@jezSonic]

This is just an opinion that everyone has right to have

[@mdstevens0612]

​@@felixdaniels37 I'd say Lost World's control scheme was more of an attempt to appeal to a wider audience. The Boost Formula is controversial even among Sonic fans. To me it seemes like Lost World spooked them, they tried to go back to the Boost Formula that made Generations and Colors so beloved and then fumbled it a bunch since Forces had a very short dev cycle, which is weird because preproduction started a long time before production proper. The boost formula is actually one of the best developed ones now, starting with Rush and Rush Adventure, including Unleashed, Colors, Generations, Forces, Frontiers and now ending on Shadow Generations.

[@isaiahkern9434]

@@mdstevens0612 Honestly, in my personal opinion. Sonic has just sprawled out into too many sub genres, and it just causes nobody getting what they want. Sonic adventure, and almost 06. Had a focus on momentum platforming, and spin playstyles. (I'm distinctly saying spin. instead of spin off. Knuckles, rouge and sa1 tails. All control the same, but what actions they can do are a bit. Which applied to 06. ) While boost games have tend to have spin off playstyles. And a focus on reaction time. It's no longer "I wonder if I can do this, it looks like I could cheese it with momentum" on first level sight read. It's until after you played the level and get a loose idea for the layout. For spino off styles that be like classic sonic, werehog, and avatar to some extent. Where it stops feeling like "a sonic game" and something else. Which in itself isn't inherently bad. But it causes a bunch of conflict. Since we now have effectively classic, adventure (focus on upgrades, and momentum knowledge), boost (quick reaction time, and memory of the level), lost world(Multi homing attack, higher focus on platforming), open/frontier (An attempt at a jack of all trades)

[@Danominator]

When you said "Sonic Moves" I thought you were talking about his dance numbers in those commercials from the 2000s And that's not even mentioning Shadow

[@Aidensuperstars]

“Sonic prime is canon fat fucking chance” is so real

[@Slimeonian]

14:55 oh my god…. I never realised LS Mark and SplashDash were the same person. I may be stupid

[@masedaace5473]

I thought that was the case, but couldn't be sure until I found your comment. Thanks.

[@PikaPhantomVG]

Nah they're just really good friends 😛

[@Dante...]

I've never watched an LSMark video so I was confused as to why he kept getting recommended to me. Now I know it's because him and Splash Dash are the same person lol.

[@trashmouth2020]

Dude it was the first time i saw a video from this channel and all the time i was thinking ''man this dude sounds SO MUCH like mark''

[@rhonddaboy13]

To quote Shadow's song Never Turn Back: "I take one step forward and two steps back," Pretty much that with different choices of gameplay.

[@FanicTheHedgehogYT]

In Sonic Lost World there's forgotten move, When Sonic's uncurling from the Spindash and spinning without the Ball Graphic, just hold down the Spindash botton again you literally do this by spinning in the Water without fall it

[@Somegoofyperson19743]

At this point. Sonic has brought back the old games so much at this point that it isn’t even nostalgic for old players anymore. Sega is the opposite of “let the past be the past”

[@GUNS_jk]

I like the way they handled Boost and Spindash in Frontiers. Boost to go fast yet glued to the ground and Spindash to go fast and basically enable physics. I like those options.

[@JustinJulian-00]

@@GUNS_jk just don't use it in cyberspace because otherwise you're not going to get any faster after you use it while you are faster on the islands as long as you have all of your rings

[@bogdansgaming8106]

Fun Fact! In frontiers, Sonic was actually meant to have the drift and it was removed last minute, BUT THEY SOMEHOW LEFT IT FOR SUPER SONIC. You can literally do it while fighting Giganto in the vanilla game, it's insane

[@Laekith]

Sonic's moveset peaked with SA2, both in 2D and 3D (Advance 2 and Adventure 2)

[@mrmelonman2893]

this guy gets it.

[@shemayahalexander6601]

Lol what a coincidence 😂

[@Dante...]

I'd give it to Mania for 2D and Adventure 1 for 3D.

it peaked as the amount of things you can do but sa1 does less things but better, movesetwise

[@modernsonicspeedysonicnewsinfo]

i liked rush, rush adventure and unwiished's playsytle better

[@michaelkindt3288]

@11:40-.-Don't worry, the final Avatar solo level is The only level where you can wall jump. It can't be done in any other level, which is why mark forgot about it. And technically, Sonic never did the wall jump, so he is not wrong.

[@SuspiciousCat13]

“Wake up, babe. Splash Dash just uploaded a new video.”

[@MaeMaeMochii]

I don’t know why but I’ve always had a love for the Super Peel Out. I think it’s one of the best things to be introduced to a Sonic game but it needs to be in more modern titles!

[@JustinJulian-00]

What good super peel out would do sure you will be super fast when you use it but your left open to enemy attacks I mean it can be optional to put the move in there but it's not the most beneficial move to have because while you spin dash you are more protected from damage from the enemies

[@SonicTagTeamPlush]

I don't see apoint for it Spindash does the same thing.. and kills enemies in your way.

[@legoboy7107]

@@JustinJulian-00 You can roll immediately after launching from a Peel-Out making you just as protected as with the Spindash but with the Peel-Out's speed, if anything once you start doing that trick the Peel-Out makes the Spindash less useful, other than you still being vulnerable while charging in place which is hardly an issue.

[@mikeanthony3300]

​@legoboy7107 Actually, that makes the Super Peel Out worse since you need an additional input to make it more effective. The Spindash gives you speed and protection upon being used. Super Peel Out requires you to quickly press down right after using the move if there is enemies in your way. At this point, it's only main unique trait was the running animation which as of Superstars has become Classic Sonic's full speed running animation.

[@legoboy7107]

@@mikeanthony3300 I mean, I don't exactly find pressing down on a dpad to be a particularly difficult challenge to be honest, that seems entirely negligible and also doesn't really impact which move is better in terms of abilities and usefulness in-game, that's an external factor.

[@StefanoAbruzzi]

Super peelout and insta-sheild: Am I a joke to you?

[@GottaBGlitches]

The rings in Forces dissappearing when they're lost isn't exactly new, the same thing happens in Unleashed, and I think it would've been better this way, since Forces is so easy. And if the player can't handle it, they can just go play the easy mode, where rings drop like normal, but the counter is capped at 100. (the 100 ring cap is all easy mode changes, so the rings also dropping just makes sense and feels like how it would've been if this feature made it into the final game)

[@BlueV205]

10:38 and they went back to Unleashed style of filling up the boost in Shadow Generations lol

[@MOVIEMATYT]

1:07 the actual cutscene has borders covering that spot which is why it pops out lmao

[@glowdonk]

Lost World's motobug is such a cutie patootie

[@aluzion2616]

Mannn.... FINALY someone talks about it. I hate how every thing is inconsistant in this franchise. And also the button layout. How the f they can't make a consistant button layout?

[@tommythesparta4912]

I actually like the way the spindash and boost co-exist in Frontiers, and there are trade offs for using one over the other The Spindash has a faster top speed than the Boost, making the Spindash the faster choice on the other hand, The Boost has more sticky-ness to the ground, a much tighter turn, and can stop on a dime, making it a much more controlled speed So it basically becomes a choice of Pure speed or More Control

[@derekg5006]

The "everything is canon" thing to my knowledge was nothing more than a joke in response to some poyo poyo pop collaboration

[@memiix]

I think they meant how in sonic frontiers they name drop a shit ton of things that appeared in past sonic games

[@derekg5006]

@@memiix sonic's twitter made a tweet saying "everything is canon" in response to one of their collaborations and then someone took a screenshot of it isolated and everyone started taking it super seriously for some reason

[@memiix]

@@derekg5006 i see

[@_veloxity91]

@@memiix No, it was a joke. They were only bringing up events that everybody knew were canon.

[@memiix]

@@_veloxity91 damn i never knew, its not like someone told me that already

[@Zinkolo]

I think having the boost be stamina based is the worst way to go about it. Having it be powered by rings only is so much better because you can build the level design around it and have it be more skill-based. That's why generations and unleashed are so good because you have to actively try to get the rings to boost.

[@JaredThe]

Even though they are probably less significant to the evolution of Sonic’s game design compared to the console games, I do think it’s interesting to note how the 8-bit games by Aspect handled evolving Sonic’s gameplay in tandem with the 16-bit games. The way they attempt to evolve the formula and adjust to the limitations of the Master System and Game Gear over time are interesting and smart and they feature additions to the gameplay I’d always have liked to see in mainline. Sonic Chaos was the first game where Tails could use his flight in gameplay and featured both the peelout from CD and the Spindash from Sonic 2 on Mega Drive, it feels like they wanted to make full use of Sonic’s moveset at that point in time and take advantage of ideas that may or may not become mainstay once the higher budget console games released. I especially love how Triple Trouble added to things with letting Sonic briefly curl into a ball out of springs and his fall animation while also accommodating the Game Gear’s inability to load all the rings you drop when getting hit by having only up to 5 or so fall out of Sonic, but you can only loose up to 30 from the counter. Genuinely such an amazing little change for balancing the 8-bit games’ often radical difficulty issues because you can gain enough rings that you can accumulate a sizable health bar for riskier sections of the levels, and be able to spare rings to enter the special stage boxes even having gotten hit, but when you are starting out the level or start to get low you can still end up in that state of risk that makes the system satisfying. Sonic Blast further tuned the system by having you only lose about 10 rings I think which while surely makes the game a lot easier, can’t say that it’s really a bad thing for this game’s case given everything is so chunky and hampered by screen crunch that making he game generally easy to beat and play otherwise is for the best. It also is the only game in the franchise I’ve seen where Rings act as an additional timer that drains away once your air runs out under water. It’s a really cool mechanic for handling Sonic’s whole limited air system, and another small idea I think if the mainline games had would make them feel more satisfying, even if the only level you’ll see it in is constantly snagging you by the balls through vacuum tubes. Holy Shit Blue Marine Zone.

[@bandicootbrawl9674]

Amy also has the classic jump sound in SA2/SA2 Battle. I liked when the character jump sound effects were so consistent from SA2-ShadowtH

[@doclouis4236]

Man, it's like each game had a different Director making decisions on how it would play instead of Sega *(Sonic Team)* being this singular entity responsible for creating every Sonic game ever and being responsible for all of the game's mechanics not carrying through with each new game.

[@jackhumphries1087]

18:34 actually I think the reason they kept them was to distinguish them from springs that you can homing attack, since you can’t homing attack the classic-style springs

[@SonicTheHedgehogX15]

9:22 its weird seeing cinematic 120fps of unleashed gamesplay and sudden jump into 5 fps

[@AydenWilliams-yl7nc]

I liked how they used the spindash to drift in gens it was really fun to use

[@miadatenshi9903]

This has also to do with the fact they change engines every few games. Some things don't work in specific games so they just don't have them

[@Jacob-Jack]

18:54 I have a possible explanation on the Motobug thing: -Colors & Generations Motobug is meant to be a design evolution, making it fit the more modern "tech-y" style -Sonic 4 Motobugs are weird like that, because they try to add modern edge to the classic shape (being somewhat emblematic of Sonic 4's identity crisis where it puts a modern coat of paint over classic stuff) -Lost World gives the Badniks a VERY toy-like look, so gotta make the Motobug all cartoon-y then once Frontiers rolls around, they come back to the tech-y look, so the Colors & Generations look it is again (and I do like that look, it is a very solid evolution of the design) question is if Sega intends to commit to that look or make ANOTHER major change due to reinventing Badnik aesthetics again or being in a nostalgia haze

[@Dante...]

I think the reason they used the Generations Motobug was because most of Cyberspace was just re-used Generations assets.

[@Jacob-Jack]

@@Dante... that too

[@Zinkolo]

After Shadow generations I'm just glad they didn't listen to you (no offense) and kept the boost but made it to be more like generations and built the level design around it and powered by rings and not checkpointed by wisps. Way more fun and balanced than forces or frontiers.

[@Lucid0000]

Too be fair with the classic springs in frontiers, they have gameplay mechanics, you can’t homing attacks the classic ones

[@TimDespairBear11]

Remember the sweep kick in sonic unleashed? That was straight up pointless and its only use was for destroying furniture/boxes in the hubworld. Also unleashed had the “tap” jump, where if you tap the jump button sonic will do a small jump while keeping your speed. I THINK generations had it too but they got rid of it in future games. And the light dash. Before frontiers it was basically gone since like unleashed. Colors didn’t have it besides using the green wisp, and generations only had the light dash with some specific trails of rings. I don’t even remember if forces had it but frontiers finally brought it back to normal. The bounce bracelet. SA2 had it, 06 had it, and then frontiers kinda brought it back albeit it’s pretty gimped. No idea why those 3 games have it and no others. What about the magic hands in SA2? That serves absolutely no purpose? Dude I can go on and on and on.

[@thawkade]

Colors and Generations have the short hop as well, I assume it was dropped because Lost World didn't have it and Forces and Frontiers are built off that game for some reason.

[@SaddieMoon]

17:58 I personally prefer having both springs. Unless they establish that Classic Springs naturally occur in small cartoony islands and Modern Springs appear in the big realistic continents, then I wouldn’t want them to do mix the springs. It just doesn’t make sense in the world building so far that the Classic springs would randomly disappear for Modern ones out of nowhere.

[@kernosbattoons6504]

you are so good at making sure to be vague with these topics when you tease em, gosh

[@pQuiPq]

Sonic’s stomp is an extension of his Adventure 2 bounce and I think both of those moves are awesome

[@kaobunn]

great video! when you pointed out the classic springs showing up in modern games it made me remember how much i hate that the dash panels are falling into the exact same camp like for some reason forces EXPLICITLY ONLY USES the classic dash panel design and then in frontiers it flip flops between them? i specifically remember a section in 1-3 (the only 2D highway level) where it starts out with a classic dash panel, switches to a modern dash panel in another section and then back to a classic one, like, why??? they dont function differently so why flip flop?

[@theblacknexusyt]

I really hope Shadow’s Story in Generations will have a dark tone with deep writing. I mean if Shadow is copying King Venom, she definitely should

[@ZeldaMasterLeo]

11:38 the wall jump is in the game but the avatar is the only one that can use it (the character in that clip)

[@zadock6370]

I think it is interesting how in any media besides games, his boost is completely nonexistent. I find that so weird considering how powerful of an ability that is.

[@TheSultan1470]

It sort of is present- the boost is just a game mechanic integration of his ability to sprint/dash very fast.

[@zadock6370]

@@TheSultan1470 except it is done in such a way that you can directly run into enemies to defeat them with this, and you can change direction in the air or boost forward even more with it. I think it is neat.

[@misterzygarde6431]

I thought of the idea where the equivalent of Cyberspace in the next game have two styles. One could be Sonic Adventure style and the other the boost gameplay. Like have an in game explanation that Sonic notes that some of the zones he’s going to make boosting too risky explaining why Sonic would switch to the Adventure style. 6:58 That idea is much better though.

[@chocolatecello1483]

The sonic tornado move does actually make some other appearances, but the only one that comes to mind is sonic rush when he uses it as a boss exclusive move.

[@Wablr]

I’ve always preferred the bounce to the stomp tbh. I’d love to see it make a return someday

[@PeEpSi1]

Dang I was just watching "your friend" LS Mark's video of 4.5 hours of sonic, tell him to add this

[@darkreflection9087]

1:23 maybe it’s another dimension

[@_veloxity91]

Can't wait for the next Tails solo game where he can't fly but he can bounce on a spring

[@Skibster-w9l]

When you really think about it magic hands is one of Sonic’s most powerful abilities.

[@spindash64]

8:15 honestly, i think it all comes down to visual presentation on that front: Sonic is no stranger to suddenly changing his momentum midair with a stomp, homing attack, or the like, so it's more about how to make that double jump look really cool Maybe they could partially bring back the Instashield from Sonic 3 and incorporate that into his Double Jump. Or, as heretical as this could sound, make it so his first, grounded jump doesnt have him curl up right away, OR the first jump uses the Sonic Adventure 2 style jump animation, only getting the full "blur" for that second jump Also, Heroes had a lot of fun "hidden" move behaviors to add some personality: Espio's triangle jump had no time limit, so he could cling to the wall as long as he wants. Amy could hold down Jump to use Propeller Hammer to fly a short distance. And of course, the Team Blasts all had secondary bonuses, with Sonic Overdrive's being that Sonic could follow up _immediately_ with a Lightspeed attack If they go for the multiple playable character approaches again, they could have their cake and eat it too: imagine a game with a playable Metal Sonic, who plays like Unleashed Sonic but with rings being consumed for boosting akin to F-Zero GX, while Sobic goes for a more SA2 or Frontiers feeling kit.

[@thewado13]

Im so glad you mentioned the classic springs being in modern stages after generations because that has NEVER MADE SENSE to me!! I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed.

[@conspiracydawg]

I appreciate the "please clap," as I reference it quite often.

[@DURANDAL1007]

you can't pick up your rings in unleashed btw. You just don't loose all your rings

[@ace_icemaster8157]

So funny thing about the ring system in forces. You still can’t recollect rings after getting hit, but that’s only a thing in easy mode for some reason. Normal has them function like how they should

[@leonlegend]

Small correction: The double jump was actually introduced in Sonic R.

[@That1One-Guy]

Splash dash is uploading tomorrow. MARK MY WORDS

[@thealandude9146]

18:57 I do like how classic springs are not able to be homing attacked in Frontiers

[@therealstarMoses]

I think a cool thing would be for them to ditch the Boost in favor of levels where sonic "Slows Down" and is explicitly noted to not be zooming as fast as he can, and then have sections evocative of the mach speed sections from 06 where he goes full tilt can't stop pedal to the metal rushing w/ boost and stuff. The main thing I want is the ability to reach and exceed boost speeds WITHOUT using the boost. I want spindash and superpeelout and stuff like that that you can chain together with the boost to go faster, at risk of getting hit and losing your speed. make the boost a safe and consistent option, but high execution and chaining other moves to build moment lets you hit something like the Mach 2 boost modes advance apparently had, or the afterimage speed from Rush.

[@panetoneninjacanal2692]

Insta shield is so forgotten that it is noot even mentioned

[@spindash64]

It's a shame: imagine if it worked like a melee air dodge, granted split second invulnerability and some momentum along with its hitbox expansion

[@wiggles1521]

BRO- I JUST WANT THE LIGHTSPEED ATTACK BACK. PLEASE, I WANT THAT NOSTALGIC "Ready?" SPOKEN AGAIN😭😭😭

[@LolipooChimichanga]

Sonic X shadow Gens really shows the problem with having the moveset being different in every game. It's revealed that you have the option to use the controls Frontiers had in Generations, most notable changes being the change for the homing attack and the boost being on the shoulder button. It's good for people who don't want to hassle with changing their muscle memory when switching between two characters, but when you actually start to think... ....this doesn't work at all. Hear me out. The open zone gameplay of Frontiers never has the same focus on having tight reflexes the same way the previous boost games do, such as using the slide and quickstep. These moves happen to be the most underutalized in Frontiers. Trying to boost with r2 while using the shoulder buttons to quickstep feels awful to do. That's why it's most comfortable to use the boost and quickstep during the squid chase sequences, since you can use the joystick to quickstep instead. It's also why one of the update 2 challenges that involes the quickstep in kronos island feels wrong to do when trying to boost, because it was ONLY built for quickstepping, meaning that sonic team knew that was the case.

[@Mohammed1000real]

The irony while Mario having no canon.

[@passtheapplejuice2619]

*and no inherent focus on story.

[@JustinJulian-00]

@@Mohammed1000real because gameplay is the only thing that matters in Mario than the story itself

[@JumpyKaput]

@@JustinJulian-00true, Mario doesn’t really need a strong compelling reason to shout wahoo and stomp on mushrooms and turtles

[@Aktedya1-jt7vw]

Mario doesn't really TRY to have a canon, so it works out

[@limyorange2276]

The Slide is the most forgotten move. Considering how the roll could accomplish the same effect. It also shows how it is basically never used in Forces and thanks to being in the future I know that the Slide is only used two times in Shadow Gens. I think the game that used the Slide most was Sonic Unleashed, (HD) the slide is meant to be a momentary reaction check, and Unleashed being the most difficult and the most demanding Boost game makes sense.

[@sonicfan1534]

The next character to be in sonic series should be rankles.

[@Indigious]

Bro is gonna igr9ne one of the more consistent things in sonic, the homing attack

[@PhaxtolgiaLegacy]

12:01 I honestly don't understand why they did this, because in the Wii version of Unleashed, you 100% could drift without any context sensitive inputs. You could do it whenever you want if you ran fast enough.

[@thawkade]

You couldn't play that game with the Wii Remote only though, Unleashed needs the nunchuk, Colors doesn't. Really they shouldn't have done that anyway, 3D games with just a dpad feel bad.

[@sleepylmguy9968]

Ok hold up 12:00 about the drift. While I get people like it. But is it REALLY needed now a days? It was only implemented in the boost games because they couldn’t figure out how to make Sonic turn correctly while going at high speed. Now as we see in Frontiers Sonic can make tight turns now. Which of anything that’s a good thing. Sooooo, why do we need it back or want it back? What would be the point of it can Sonic can turn in high speeds now? The only reason it would if they mess up Sonic turning. But again I ask, why in the HFIL would you want them to make Sonic’s Turning crap again? You see, I don’t get this. Someone help me out here cause either I’m dumb or everyone wants Sonic to regress backwards.

[@Err0_Will]

I think the thing with Frontiers is that Sonic is inherently slower most of the time so he can make tighter turns easier, the drift is way more useful for a faster Sonic so if they make him faster again in the future, the drift would help a lot

[@cristianovogt5586]

​@@Err0_Will Fun fact, if we go by code, Sonic in the Cyberspace stages is actually the fastest Sonic has ever been when compared to the boosting games. It's all in the camera angle.

[@Trainmaster909]

6:52 I love how SEGA did the exact opposite of literally everything you said here, and the end product was amazing. No mark against your ideas, but it was very funny in retrospect.

[@DarkRei7]

Frontiers actually has an unimplemented drift function, so they probably intended to bring it back but didn't have the time to polish it as seen with those shitty drift pads in Cyberspace. There's a lot of cut content in Frontiers, Ouranos was meant to be the Ancients' mothership or at least have it in the island. Later on Rhea, Kronos and Ouranos were meant to be a single island. The environment for Chaos was meant to some sort of foundry for the ancients which they dropped and replaced with giant Eggman machines. Most of the content they added later on was meant to be in the game at launch. So yes they're aware of the issue around Sonic's controls, if you count the drift the only moves that are really missing now are the roll and wall running (and the ability to wall jump on any flat wall and to homing attack without a target, but both abilities are technically in the game). Shadow Generations also dropped the drift and had dash pads in places where they felt unorganic and there just to keep you on track since you can't drift (like the start of Kingdom Valley). Odds are they're still adjusting it, Shadow Generations as good as it is is a side project.

[@mochamanplays257]

8:00 the double jump was originally from Sonic 3 but it was locked behind the electric shield. Then it was part of his base moves in Sonic R and, to my knowledge, didn’t show back up until Colors

[@weebsquit347]

This feels like an obscure fact because i dont see anyone talk about it, but the Boost is in Lost World. But it's exclusive to Super Sonic, which 99% of players probably didn't want to go through the hassle of unlocking. It kinda feels like Forces used that as the basis for its boost

[@Hyp3rSonic]

Did you need to get all of the Red Star Rings to unlock him? I should clarify that I have never played this game

[@mechajay3358]

There's a lot of things in the Sonic franchise throughout its history you think they've figured out by now. Instead of flip-flopping one what move-set to put in a game.

[@jayeraine]

13:00 To be fair, the whole thing where you loose only a certain chunk of your rings upon getting hit was already a thing way before Shadow the Hedgehog, Triple Trouble did this back in the Game Gear days IIRC

[@natecgames4612]

11:40 As far as I'm aware you just found the one and only time that you cant reasonably wall-jump in any level in the entire game.

[@chocolatesensei5648]

Frontiers introducing a base sonic and cast combat system opens new avenues. Sonic’s moves like his eagle kick could make a return and chain with the homing attack if with anything. It could even cause a screen shaking explosion as super sonic as good for thought. Sonic’s kicking slashes from frontiers doesn’t have to be a cyber energy exclusive move since theoretically sonic can just kick wind that fast. And speaking of wind Sonic should definitely have more tornado moves. If they wanted to reference something they could have him move around while spinning around like in sonic underground just for the cheeky fuck of it. And that’s just sonic Also fun fact super sonic was accidentally left with the drift in frontiers despite regular sonic not having it outside of that one cyber space mission

[@cristianovogt5586]

Eagle Kick IS in Sonic Frontiers, you just to hold down when doing the basic combo. The combo finished will launch the enemy in different directions depending on what direction you are holding, if you are holding down, Sonic will kick the enemy down into the ground while doing the Eagle Kick.

[@tmta4089]

3:20 it’s funny that I can immediately tell this gameplay is from project-06 and isnt from a console port

[@untapped8776]

I'm fairly certain some level of inconsistency has affected basically every move in Sonic's arsenal. His basic run and jump aren't immune. Sonic's base speed can vary between games, not to mention Lost World featuring a run button. The Spin Jump was absent from Secret Rings and Black Knight, and in base 06 it didn't even damage enemies. All this doesn't even factor in other moves like the Homing Attack, Bounce, Stomp, Slide, Jump Dash, or Lightspeed Dash. Not to mention all of these moves have completely different visuals and sounds basically every game. I like that the games do switch up the movesets every so often, but a little more consistency would be appreciated, or at least maybe finding a way to incorporate these forgotten moves back into the games.

[@sonicmeerkat]

i'm genuinly surprised rush wasn't mentioned, not only did it include both the spindash and the boost (while gating the boost from bosses you could actually roll in the normal levels so you could save gauge by rolling downhill) it also refilled in the most unique way, tricks. be it rush 1's spamming off any spring, aerial dash pad or rainbow rings or rush adventures finisher system which only rewarded the vast majority of the trick boost when performing a combo finisher which while existing in the first game mostly acted as a way to extend momentum or gain a second jump. i S ranked every rush level so i should know how situational that was i'm not surprised nobody noticed it, and the fact the homing attack was on R was like... wtf?

[@AccelerateHedge]

Why is the thumbnail sometimes a picture of the spindash and the boost and other times a picture of Lost World's wall running

[@kanyejones3194]

Ill always love how he puts his logo over his "friends face"😂

[@BronzeFacade]

Here's what I'm thinking: Double Jump w/flip (course correction and extra height in exchange for more vulnerability and less momentum) Air dash/homing attack (dependent on if there's an enemy or spring to target or not) Stomp to shoot down and slide Trigger for crouch a la Mario, used for the roll and spindash Maybe have an extra button/left trigger for a boost meter, but use it for things like drifting and insta cyloop, sonic boom, basically a mana meter.

[@mr.thefrog5356]

Had to drop a like for "please clap." Best clip

[@CinnaSwirls]

Actually, Sonic could double jump in Sonic R, so neither the presenter nor the editor got it right.

[@Change51]

0:50 Mar- I mean Splash Dash, it was a mistranslation the whole time

[@castform7]

I feel like it's very obvious that Classic, regardless of which translation was used was supposed to be interpreted as a seperate dimension from Modern.

[@yamandoesstuff9755]

10:35 In Frontiers the boost meter can also be filled back up by collecting rings! I'm surprised people don't know about this.

[@JP2427]

They better bring back shadows stupid flip kick thing from 06 in Shadow Generations, or me and John Sega are gonna have a few words

[@rando6677]

12:36 Super sonic also has a drift which is really weird But I think Kishimoto said sonic was meant to have one And super sonic having one is a remain of the scrapped mechanic

[@cristianovogt5586]

The reason Sonic doesn't have a drift in Frontiers is because the whole point of Drift was to help Sonic made tight turns since he couldn't do that properly during the boost games, but since Sonic already turns well in the open world naturally, they just removed.

[@XBC3403]

I think Frontiers showed well how the boost and spin dash can both exist in the same kit for Sonic without making the other redundant. The boost in that game lets you move faster, while keeping the same level of control over sonic, he can turn just as tightly as you want him to, it can be used on walls and in the air, and when in the air, it lets sonic change his direction in an instant and gives him some additional height as well as distance. but in turn it lost its offensive utility. The spin dash in contrast allows sonic to reach even faster speeds and make it easier to take advantage of the physics and geometry of the levels and world, it can deal damage, but its harder to control and can only be activated on the ground. These traits make both the spin dash and boost useful for reaching high speeds but geared for different purposes. The boost being more of a pure movement tool that can be used anywhere while the spin dash is more of an offensive and exploitative tool that you have to find and figure out how and where to make the most use out of it.

[@hyperburno7310]

Getting rid of boost is probably the stupidest thing you could have ever said, spin dash and boost can't be used in tandem but tbf boost is better in literally every way, with spin dash you've got spindash and that's basically it. With boost you got drift, and arial boost. While i like the amount of freedom you get with spindash jump it's extreamly broken and you can just skip levels, with boost as the base mechanic you can't break the game, and thanks to unleash and generations diverging routs are possible and more quick time then previous games