The Elizabeth Line: The Actual Trains

[@JagoHazzard]

Go to ground.news/jago to spot media bias and make sure you’re getting the full story. Subscribe through my link for less than $1/month or get 40% off unlimited access this month only.

[@joethebrowser2743]

👍🏻🇬🇧👀...

[@CarolineFord1]

I subscribed - the emails they send are horribly US specific.

[@JulianSortland]

Interesting that the less factual has a right bias, the more factual a "left" one. That is demonstrated in many lists / graphics of US media.

[@CinemaDemocratica]

@@JulianSortland What a surprise that the tech bros at Ground News want to make it harder to spot lies by adorning them in he-said-she-said false equivalence.

[@Khado819]

7:46 "you can't trust trains to make difficult decisions, I've seen Thomas the tank engine". very funny

[@whatdoiaddhere]

7:41 actually

[@simonwinter8839]

How Mr.Hazzard managed to describe the Sun newspaper without resorting to verbal abuse is testament to his absolute professionalism !!

[@xenon53827]

You don't have to resort to verbal abuse to refer the the F****** Sun Newspaper!

[@xenon53827]

OH, sorry, er, yes, you do........

[@zorktxandnand3774]

@@xenon53827"Newspaper"

[@jrt0070071]

😊😊😊❤​@@xenon53827

[@tommy96705]

Niche but solid Torchwood gag!

[@sams3015]

I totally forgot that show until just now

[@66PHILB]

It is? I must be within the niche then

[@thomashrubecky1663]

@@66PHILB Yep… me too. Best series of the show. I'm niche.

[@beepthemeep12]

Yeah I came down here to comment that. 10/10 throw away joke

[@Kazavop]

Yep, nice gag

[@Taitset]

Your inconsistency with imperial vs metric is perfectly consistent with the UK's consistent inconsistency on this matter. 🙂

[@AFCManUk]

I have to say, the popularity of the Elizabeth line skyrocketed in such a short space of time. When it first opened in 2022, I popped up to London to have a ride on it, and it was relatively quiet and seats were available. Flash forward a couple of months and ever since then, the times I've travelled on it (between Ealing Broadway and Farringdon) have almost always been standing room only.

[@ricktownend9144]

It seems crazy that the service west of London is so much less than to Shenfield and Abbey Wood. Is it another case of the people whose job it is to predict usage yet again failing to get it right?

[@AFCManUk]

@@ricktownend9144 Indeed. It's only something like 2 trains per hour that call at Acton Mainline, but 3 or 4 per hour just one stop down the line at Ealing Broadway.

[@Mgameing123]

@@AFCManUk Is more than double. 4 trains per hour at Acton off peak and 8 trains per hour off peak at Ealing.

[@highpath4776]

@@AFCManUk In part less at Acton Main Line because of need to keep GWR lines clear for their run into Paddington. Essentially the Ends of the Lines were kept at original service levels and didnt allow for the (already coming by new residential developments) increase in passengers - however dont the trains actually carry more passengers than the stock they replaced ?

[@hotelmario510]

If you build it, they will come.

[@srednivashtar5432]

Prince came up with the original idea for a purple train back in 1984. Being big into his train spotting (you could often find him on the platforms of Clapham Junction at the weekends with his notebook, sandwiches and anorak), he even wrote a song about it. Unfortunately, due to pressure from British Rail’s legal team, he had to rename the song before its release on the album, which also shared its new name. I don’t think he ever quite forgave BR after that. But his legacy lives on across London, thanks to TFL.

[@davidsimms6609]

Short sets . Prince in mind.

[@srednivashtar5432]

@@davidsimms6609 well played, Sir. Well played.

[@JulianSortland]

Victoria has plenty of purple trains, and purple locos.

[@iandixon2201]

Isn't the joke (c) Geoff Marshall 😂

[@ruprajsengupta2920]

It will be 25kv =25000volts,not 25kw .

[@TheValutOfEd]

“In theory they have WiFi.” Hahaha I like how older Underground lines have cellular access now yet Elizabeth line still doesn’t

[@eattherich9215]

In theory, trains do have wi-fi. You only realise how rubbish it is after having spent a lot of time accessing the service and then experiencing a lot of dropouts. If I'm on a journey of less than 15 minutes, I don't bother.

[@TheValutOfEd]

@@eattherich9215 I know you can connect to it but it never works outside the station lol. I just wait till the rain is at the station and even then it takes 100 years to connect.

[@laurencefraser]

@@TheValutOfEd really, it Should be a wi-fi hub and cellular repeater (or several) in the train, but the train should not be using regular wifi or cell service to connect to anything. There are a variety of viable ways of doing it, but every single one involves running wire from station to station down the tunnels and the trains connecting to That by various methods, the better of which shouldn't have connectivity issues at all (aside, perhaps, from bandwith limits if every single passenger on every single train in a given section is using it at once), and then connecting to the regular telecommunications network from the stations. Sounds like they're trying to use dodgy wireless repeaters the whole way along instead.

[@CallumAtwal]

End of 2024 there should be 4G/5G on the underground sections

[@TheValutOfEd]

@@laurencefraserThat makes sense, hopefully they sort it out but I doubt that anytime soon

[@EonityLuna]

The way the Elizabeth Line is set up as both a metro and commuter railway might be a bit unusual for the UK, but in Japan it’s pretty normal and commonplace, especially in bigger cities like Tokyo and Osaka. Over there, metro and commuter rail lines often have direct connections with each other, and there are often through-train interlined services between two or more lines. These different lines are also usually owned by different companies, and trains from these different companies would jointly operate on the combined through service. Metro-style train cars are the “default” rolling stock for such train services from what I have observed, but more intercity-like trains are used on more premium, express/rapid variants of such services - for an extra fare, of course. Some of these trains look like regular metro-style trains, but are fitted with seats that can be rotated into either a longitudinal layout for running on regular services, or a transverse layout when running on such premium express/rapid services. Personally, I believe such hybrid metro/commuter rail services/lines will become more commonplace around the world in the future, especially as cities expand and there’s a growing desire to ditch personal car ownership in favour of transit. Indeed, I think that, had London not put in the Green Belt project post-WWII and expanded greatly in a similar fashion to Tokyo back then, London might had more Elizabeth Line-like railway lines and services earlier.

[@theprodigal72]

There are similar lines in Paris and especially Germany too, although most in Germany don't have as much metro style traffic in their core section.

[@f.g.9466]

I would say that crossrail is much more similar to the RER in Paris, than to the Tokyo model.

[@Lodai974]

Given that the English frequently go to Paris (even decision-makers), the first thing they see when arriving at Paris Gare du Nord are lines B and D (RER), and the transilien on the surface. Crossrail/Elizabeth Line is a heavy RER or metro, quite close to the RER A and B in concept. Metro frequencies, but heavy and wide equipment (although limited to 2.77m wide, probably due to the historic lines) The RER itself was partly born from the observation of the Sceaux line opened in 1860 (the southern part of line B), and the JR lines in Japan. But the difference is the central underground section at high speed (100kph) Japan copied the concept by merging the Yokosuka and Sobu Line via a 9km tunnel in 1972. The overground is quite similar to Line C (RER C) and the transilien is the closest thing to the suburban lines of South West Trains or Southern with a terminus at a surface station.

[@mdhazeldine]

"but the government are hesitant"...."only need 5 trains"...."may have to shut down production"..... proceeds to bang head on desk....why..why are we so incompetent in this country?! 😭

[@mattevans4377]

Only Jago could do a Torchwood AND Thomas the tank engine jokes, and it works.

[@djtraxxehv1058]

Great rolling stock. It runs at 25kV AC and has a nominal power of some 4.4MW

[@DavidIwanow]

Was on the Elizabeth line yesterday it's such a wonderful experience travelling from Heathrow. Makes it hard to go back to the old tube trains

[@mickeydodds1]

"Looking at you Paddington". I'll get Mr. Brown to have a quiet word with him.

[@OffTheRailsUK]

"Long distance trains are more comfortable to sit in" Jago: Proceeds to show footage of an IET

[@AFCManUk]

ZINGGG!!!! :D

[@mudchute4dlr]

IET is relatovely comfortable, except for GWR which got a seat downgrade

[@PigeonsandCapybaras]

Lol

[@AFCManUk]

@@mudchute4dlr If only ALL trains had the comfy seats of the 158 and 159's out of Waterloo...sigh.

[@ahuman9143]

I have spent 6 hours on an IET and it wasn't too bad

[@TinCanTidy]

Love how you said in "theory they have wifi" the wifi shows up but never connects or allows you to access anything. Yet again classic TFL

[@memediatek]

It only works where there is cell service. So it's basically useless for Brits but makes sense for tourists when they finally start offering it

[@dj_paultuk7052]

Same as GWR, there is WiFi, but it works at about 0.1mb. Essentially unusable.

[@FarmYardGaming]

My phone doesn't trust it because of SSL certicifate shenanigans, the station Wi-Fi is... better now I have a newer phone that plays with SIM authentication

[@hairyairey]

​@@dj_paultuk7052it probably has loads of bandwidth, shared around 250 people!

[@Roland-pw5xj]

The name Crossrail lives on in the form of Crosssrail Place at Canary Wharf. Love the roof garden.

[@3whatscookin]

was there today haha, noticed they still had Crossrail Place where the new line is

[@TheIronArmenianakaGIHaigs]

I have two gripes with the Elizabeth line 1 the time spent at each station at least within the London area feels quite long as somebody did it uses the tube frequently. 2 the seats are less comfortable than the average tube line seat. I absolutely adore the spacious carriages and air conditioning

[@highpath4776]

It was slowed in stations pre Bond Street. Think it has to slow now if problems getting out of tunnel section at Paddington.

[@grassytramtracks]

​@@highpath4776 The only times I've ever taken the Elizabeth line is after Bond Street opened, still seemingly unnecessarily long dwell times

[@h.martinsmith7839]

​@@luelou8464

[@K3end0]

3:20 Yes it was! My god, for a while the new Elizabeth line trains were interjected with our old TFL ones and getting one of the new trains was a great feeling. Air Conditioned, spacious (the old 315's had a stupid seating arrangement that make peak time commuting a nightmare and off peak travel awkward).

[@malcolmgibson6288]

It would be possible to build a train so long that it would fill the whole length of the line. Passengers would walk through until they got to the station they wanted. Just think of the money saved on power.🤪

[@highpath4776]

they could creep forward at station at a time with the rear in one station and the front in the next , rinse and repeat

[@peteregan3862]

A very good summary of issues. Both Tories and Labor expect the rail network to operate on the break-even principle - all costs covered by fares, freight charges. However, economies perform better when benificiaries pay - thus general economic taxes should cover the cost of infrastrtucture at the least. However, as London relies more on public transport, a London tax surcharge on income would be useful - say 1%.

[@andrewreynolds4949]

1% is an awful lot. Try adding 1% to all your expenses, it really adds up. The problem with the system at the moment is everything made such huge losses during the worst of the pandemic they’re still trying to catch up. Normally the system would be expected to pay for itself, lest it become an endless pit to shovel money into for an underutilized system, as has happened on other systems elsewhere.

[@peteregan3862]

Yes, it is a lot. But ordinary people who live some distance from London think it rich and getting resources they do not. Therefore useful that Londoners seen to be payintmore tax to fund their transport. @@andrewreynolds4949

[@rainyfeathers9148]

Shots fired🤣! Don't listen to him Thomas🤗

[@DanQuine]

The video is informative and informed, quite up to your usual excellent standards. I'd add to your point about the light weight construction driving energy efficiency: it also allows faster acceleration, which is critical, especially on the Central London sections.

[@derp6764]

going from a 40m commute on the central line to 15m on one of these has been an absolute godsend

[@h.martinsmith7839]

From where to where?

[@bigdealbro3439]

@h.martinsmith7839 You can get from Stratford to Ealing Broadway on Elizabeth line in 29 minutes but on Central the same journey takes 50+ minutes... Also from ealing broadway to bond street in like 2-3 stops on elizabeth comapred to 11 on central...

[@adrianincroydon71]

I feel that more comparisons should be made between the Elizabeth line and Thameslink. Both have a core section running through a dedicated tunnel and both serve a bunch of towns outside London (west and east in the case of the former, and north and south in the case of the latter). Both are standing room only during busy periods. I use both frequently and find Thameslink far more comfortable as long as I can find a seat. As an older gentleman, I also find the toilet essential. It is hit and miss whether I can make it from Farringdon to Reading without a mishap. You can recognise me - I'm the one making a dash for the loos as the train opens its doors at Reading station.

[@xenon53827]

Thameslink, nice seats, lizzy line, numb bum seats.

[@kumaran8923]

​@@xenon53827 nice would be a stretch. They are not usually very comfortable .

[@johnstuart8511]

When you are train inthusiate. Is always good to know more about your new trains. Can't wait to see HS2 get going. Cheers to the future and modern shape. Regards 🇿🇦.

[@Jario5615]

I do agree the fundamental flaw with the Class 345 is that it's both too multipurpose, and not multipurpose enough. The mixed seating arrangement is nice, but causes issues in the core as there's a lot of shuffling at busy stations when getting off. Additionally the lack of luggage space for heathrow bound trains cause all sorts of issues with space, most notably with people unfamiliar with the line, with the doors opening on the right hand side in the core, and at heathrow, but on the left side out of the core, meaning doorways get blocked at busy times, leading to frustration for all. I know that the Elizabeth line, at least in the core, can take trains up to 11 coaches long, its why all the core section stations are so long. I can't recall if the 345s have the capability to take 2 additional coaches but I think it would do wonders at peak times. Even if they're configured like each of the cab ends with only standing area, it would make sense as most passengers that use the end of the train are usually alighting in the core anyway to reduce walking time. I think the best solution to the problem might be to re-jigger the timetable a bit. I don't have the data to justify but diversifying the journeys might result in better passenger flow. I don't know why half the services from shenfield terminate at paddington, and don't continue on to a destination further west that isn't Terminal 5. With the T5 train being the only service that goes through the core in that direction, it leads to it being cramped a lot, especially at peak times. There's a bay platform at Hayes and Harlington that could be used for this, and similarly I think there's an unused bay platform at Ilford that could be used similarly. The Elizabeth line is the epitome of any British infrastructure project these days: it mostly works as intended, but becomes overstrained as it becomes the best option as older infrastructure pales in comparison. Hopefully Old Oak Common won't completely break the line.

[@highpath4776]

Thats interesting , a half hourly Hayes-Ilford All stations might be useful , replacing the present AML stoppings , allowing faster trains from the West to immediately preceed them. This might mean changing trains ( something I dont really like ) but might be a way around the track capacity

[@andrewreynolds4949]

The train length I think is currently constrained by the length of stations not on the core. They would have to either extend them to fit 11 car trains or deal with locking out two coaches at those stations, and the problems that causes. Old Oak Common station will cause congestion issues, but all trains that currently terminate at Paddington will be extended there. The dedicated reversing siding will also make turnaround times much quicker, in theory, than the complicated method they currently use at Paddington.

[@artursdobrecovs]

The 345s are almost certainly never going to be lengthened to 11 cars. The main limiting factors are on the short platform stations on the East and West sections of the line. At Heathrow T4 the train wouldn't fit without blocking the points and limiting the station to only a single platform, and at Hanwell almost half of the entire train would be hanging off the end of the platform. Even in the central section, Paddington would require significant work for lengthening as the additional soft provisioned car lengths are actually beyond the end of the current platform; at Custom House the platforms are already shorter than the current trains by about a metre, and at Abbey Wood the crossover is again too close to the platform for any lengthening to be possible without re-laying the track. And that's without also considering that a number of PSDs would need to be relocated throughout the 8 subsurface stations that currently have them

[@nicolasblume1046]

They also don't have enough doors for the busy core. The cars are pretty long, they should have 4 doors per side, not 3. This would result in a similar door spacing to German S-Bahn trains

[@soundingJack]

Someone might have mentioned this already, but there may be capacity restrictions on the main line out of Paddington. Partly GWR have some stopping trains, and there are also slow-moving freight trains from the depot near Acton Main Line. Would like to see more frequent trains here too

[@stuartkinnear2478]

The 345s are related to the Class 301s we have on our Gautrain network here in South Africa - very solid trains that have been running for almost 15 years now. Our 301s are showing some wear and tear but I cannot really fault their reliability - very rarely do we see train delays of more than 10 minutes or so. Fittings in the commuter variant are slightly spartan - and there are no phone charging points - but now that commuter numbers are increasing again I see full trains almost daily and the trains are performing quite well.

[@finlayfraser9952]

Jago, all you have to understand about the privatised rail network is that it was designed to maximise shareholder returns with the minimum investment.

[@91Durktheturk]

It seems you have very little notion of how much these private companies have actually invested.... Typically, without large investments, there are little returns to reap for shareholders.

[@Bacony_Cakes]

@richardharrold9736British Rail didn't stick us with the awful shuddering Pacers for far to bloody long. That was the private companies that did that.

[@barrieshepherd7694]

@richardharrold9736 You may like to research that statement. BR investment in rolling stock was similar - or the same (depending on the year you take) than the investment by the ROSCOs since privatisation, and remember BR had to give it's rolling stock away to the ROSCOs for them to commence business with. It can be argued that the BR rolling stock passenger comfort factor was a significant level above that of the current stock.

[@barrieshepherd7694]

@richardharrold9736 I understand your point of view about stock on the SR. Mark 2 coaches were built through the '60s but never got South I guess. North and West of London things were much better with BR investing in modern stock from 1969 ish onwards some of it only just retired - to the annoyance of enthusiasts. IC125 (HST) 1975- only just been retired and considered one of the most comfortable trains with Mk 3 coaches Mark 3 coaches continued to be built till around 1990 and operated on the WCML as well as ECML IC 225 1989 / 1991 Mark 4 coaches much better than present day IET . The original Thameslink stock and the North of London suburban stock were also BR built. All of that BR investment was in stock built in UK manufacturing and assembly plants. These days - if there is any UK content - it seems to be mainly assembly. It is also worth noting that track conditions improved significantly BR adopted highly mechanised Pway maintenance and for high speed running most track was completely relayed. Again this probably did not migrate south of the Thames unfortunately. There are a number of current commentators, who work in the industry, who bemoan the current decline of maintenance and quality control for track and general infrastructure maintenance. So things are probably no better, and maybe worse, than had BR remained running the whole system.

[@hi-viz]

I think it has to be said Sectorisation might have been the best of both worlds. BR was on a straight decline by the early 80's, but seperating the areas of the passenger railway by function instead of area seemed to allow better decisions in what was needed. And don't try to deny that by the late 00's through most of the 2010's, the railways were on a mostly upward trend, in terms of passenger numbers and investment in rolling stock and infrastructure. Look at how much the Chiltern line improved under Chiltern Railways. Decrying the current building problems as pirivatisation's fault completely ignores how a lot of the current issues as they stand can be traced back to the government itself, and how since the DFT has taken direct control of a lot of franchises there's been continual drives to cut costs. Not to mention hearing how someone in the government (can't remember who) said something along the lines of 'the railways need to make a profit', uncomfortably echoing the words of the government in the 1960's before the Beeching report was published. Acting like BR was a perfect system and everything is privatisation's fault is, at best, looking at the past through rose tinted glasses. Not to say nationalisation is automatically a bad thing, but it requires a competent and pro rail government for it to work, something that the current government is neither of. Okay, this got away from me a bit.

[@FarmYardGaming]

7:54 I've heard that the trains don't change over well somewhere around the GWML because of the frankly ancient signalling, and Heathrow Express/GWR being stubborn. So if you see delays around there that's usually why.

[@MercenaryPen]

slight correction to technical details- overhead power supply is 25 kilovolt, not 25 kilowatt

[@bfapple]

Indeed. 1A would do next to nothing, even at 25kV.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

Quote of the Day: “You can’t trust trains to make difficult decisions. I’ve seen ‘Thomas the Tank Engine’.”

[@mrcellophane99]

I travelled from Gidea Park to Twyford with a bike and would make the following comments. There isn't any space for bicycles, even the old trains into Liverpool Street had a space in every 4 car set, near the toilets (which as you point out don't exist) There is wi-fi, but only out in the open. Once the trains dive under London the signal goes. The platform service indicators above the doors are hopeless. Twice I have been waiting for a train and the indicators have shown "First train in 4 minutes - Second train in 1 minute"

[@joeblow9657]

Canadian here, you did indeed pronounce Bombardier properly. It's a French Canadian name

[@radagastwiz]

Indeed, named for its founder, Joseph-Armand Bombardier, most famous for inventing the snowmobile.

[@ludovica8221]

amen, big fan of correct pronunciation. One of my biggest peeves is people saying "chocliteer" for "chocolatier" (shocko-lah-tee ay)

[@thomashrubecky1663]

So… how do you like that Bedard kid?

[@xenon53827]

It got taken over so it...... bombed-oh-dear..... I'll go now...

[@justmeajah]

I see, I thought it's a Brazilian name

[@fairalbion]

I came into Heathroww off a long haul flight last year and was thrilled to be able to take the Elizabeth Line into central London. The train's rock-hard seats did much to kick me out of my sleep-deprived torpor.

[@michaels2480]

"torpor" ... Cool! Adding that one to my vocabulary. :)

[@davidbutton3500]

Was in London last fall. Took crossrail from and to the Airport. Great service. Fast, convenient and comfortable, even with Luggage. I will say its a very long walk to the train from the airport terminal. Its all underground and relatively flat with elevators where needed, but with luggage it can be a trek. Also the station at the airport is clearly not new, and is small and dark. That could do with an upgrade. Bought a GWR ticket to Windsor Castle, and somehow ended up on a crossrail train back into London. No issue there except there was no cell service in the station on arrival, and was unable to scan my GWR ticket to let us out of the station at Tottenham Court Road. Fortunately station staff were readily available to help, and let us out.

[@eattherich9215]

'I will say its a very long walk to the train from the airport terminal.' It's the same for every airport. I flew back to Gatwick from France last year and the walk from the terminal is nearly 15 minutes. I was beyond grumpy by the time I got down to the station platform.

[@bigaspidistra]

No eticket scanning on TfL. The ticket was most likely only valid to Paddington, so they may have taken pity on you. Could have used contactless all the way though.

[@michaelwright2986]

It's almost as though the people who design ("design", forsooth!) ground transport to airports have never thought about the people using it as passengers, with luggage. And as though the people who design airports (and they do design them) think of people using them as potential customers at all the airport concessions, and not passengers with luggage, and a need to find (and get to) the right gate.

[@SeverityOne]

@@eattherich9215 'It's the same for every airport.' Schiphol (Amsterdam) is OK. From the terminal building, you take a lift downstairs, and you're on the platform. The problem of Schiphol is that you have to walk an insane distance within the terminal itself; at least, we did last time we flew.

[@davidbutton3500]

@@bigaspidistra Its was a to/from Paddington GWR ticket. But when we got off at Paddington, the station staff told us we could just get back on the Elizabeth line train to our final stop which was Tottenham Court road. So that might be what happened.

[@CynicalPlatapus]

I did maintenance on the 345's for about a year, and i have friends that do fault finding on them while they're in service, it's always interesting to me when you talk about stuff that i work/worked with

[@joex2004uk]

Good news on the charging prospect. I’ve come across a train with newly fitted USB charging ports at the transverse seats. Hopefully they will be rolling this out to the entire line.

[@russc788]

As a numpty from a small town I always get a sense of excitement hearing that distinctive sound of a tube train slowing down when I visit London.

[@thesteelrodent1796]

Different lines have different sounds, like Jago mentioned in one of his videos a while back

[@russc788]

@@thesteelrodent1796 Well now I will be paying more attention to!

[@wetcardie66]

@@thesteelrodent1796 and different smells

[@butikimbo9595]

Allow me just a correction please: on 1:25 mins is a West Midlands CAF class 196 diesel unit. I simply recognised as i am very used to very similar Transport For Wales CAF class 197. Bombardier Aventra 730 even gangway door fitted looks much more "fancy" than CAF counterparts. I even call Aventra the "Electrostar EVO" version as it still a Made in Derby family and is such a shame Turbostar production being abandoned in first place for CAF diesels, tha latter sharing the same technology as Turbostar class 172 units. Thank you for another excellent video.

[@h.martinsmith7839]

Proposed Airport (Heathrow) and City Line. Jago your comments on the congestion on the new Elisabeth line trains are well made yet the northern main line terminals are not served and yet more passengers/congestion is to come. The below proposal may be of interest. By way of background in the 60’s I attended High School in Hammersmith and in the 70’s I worked in a transport consultancy practice near Euston Sq. (ES) station, both accessed via the Met as it then was. This was at the time when the practice was consulting with LT on extending the London Underground to Heathrow. In short. At the time I recommended re-connecting the old Hammersmith and City Line (H&CL) to the high level District Line (DL) Grove Road station and then extending the DL into Heathrow. To me the idea of extending a Tube line was ridiculous. This feeling had been reinforced by a recent experience with the then new large loading gauge rolling stock of the Toronto underground. The six principal reasons for my recommendation were: - 1). The large number of existing DL & PL City commuters interchanging on to the H&CL via a main road crossing at Hammersmith Broadway. 2). The larger loading gauge this would make available for the ever-growing number of West London commuters on the lines affected. 3). The larger loading gauge would more comfortably accommodate the ever-growing number of airline passengers with luggage. 4). Provide a direct link from Heathrow to all North London Main Line rail terminals. 5). Provide a direct link to existing stop over hotel accommodation adjacent to the North London ML terminals. 6). Existing lack of capacity on the H&CL from Hammersmith into the City. Fast forward to 2024 The old Hammersmith high level DL/HCL link land has been sold off. Wide body aircraft (747 type) have become common place and the A380 went into production. The Elizabeth Line (EL) has been opened through the West End, however it is still missing out Marylebone, Baker St, Euston ML, St Pancras and Kings Cross stations. It also seems to be running at standing room only and still with insufficient luggage space. In addition, the EL connection to the north-west platforms of Paddington ML and the HCL interchange platforms leave much to be desired. Heathrow arrivals still jam up the Piccadilly trains and subways. Piccadilly line Congestion should ease with the new trains but not in the subways. Conclusion Taking the above into account (as a minimum) one must enquire as to the merits of providing a new Airport and City Line railway running from Heathrow via the EL rails to the Paddington HCL rails with:- A) A step free interchange at Westbourne Park (large Bus Interchange, EL and HCL) or B) A cross platform change at Royal Oak (H&CL & EL only) then on to Aldgate or even Southend Airport. Both the rails and the need exist. This need will grow further if one considers the new runway proposed for Heathrow and potential HS2 inputs. In addition, the proposed extension of the Euston Sq. Station platforms and its new exit alone will generate considerably more transits through Euston Sq. Station than it has today, even if Old Oak Common initially takes much Euston ML traffic. (TFL research). What is initially needed to make an Airport and City Line work physically. In addition to the already proposed Euston Sq. works some platform length mitigation works will be required at both Edgware Rd and Baker St HCL platforms to take trains of equal length to the existing type, S8 trains, however I understand little construction work would be required to run S7 equivalent train sets. Not ideal I agree as the problem is one of congestion. As the existing Baker Street H&CL platforms 5 & 6 desperately need to be extended west, it is proposed that the platforms be extended to a new station access at Glentworth Street. Thus giving improved street access to Marylebone ML and the proposed new commercial developments to the west of Baker Street station along Marylebone Rd corridor. This would also help relive interchange congestion within the original Baker Street platform triangle. That said, it is probable that almost all H&CL platforms will need extension in the future and the extensions of the Euston Sq. and Baker Street platforms need to be regarded as part of an ongoing platform improvement program. Obviously trains would need to have a suitable power train.

[@justmeajah]

Someone pls let TfL see this

[@h.martinsmith7839]

If, EL road availability around the entry to Paddington ML is a genuine problem as mentioned in some comments below suggest. It should be noted that the ACL from Heathrow would also bypass the need for the extremely dangerous “Out of Station” interchange crossing of Hammersmith Broadway. Thus reducing the loading on H&CL trains between Hammersmith & Paddington and making the substitution of certain H&CL trains with ACL trains on TfL rails before Royal Oak a practical proposition.

[@DanielKat2012]

Ahh yes 00:15 I agree that the Elizabeth line is good and the trains are also comfy :D

[@xenon53827]

How much did TFL pay you?

[@DanielKat2012]

@@xenon53827 £-69

[@user-gc1ky2rf3y]

I wouldn’t call the ETCS signaling system older than CBTC. It’s just designed for a different purpose. CBTC works best for metro conditions whilst ETCS is more of a mainline/branchline signaling system. Both can theoretically offer ATO.

[@aarushicrystalis7998]

and with a torchwood reference i must watch every video you publish forever.

[@Thommygun-qv7um]

Like those videos about the rolling stock. Keep bringing them please since you are really good in explaining the history. Also, I wanted to add something about the concept: The Liz line is basicly the same as the S-Bahn-systems in the german cities of Frankfurt am Main and Munich from the 1970s and Leipzig from the 2010s. A regular railway with its own tunnel crossing under the city in the core section but using the existing infrastructure outside of the core. They use the same overhead wires with 15 KV as all the other electric trains in germany. That was a big contrast compared to the much older S-Bahn-systems in Berlin and Hamburg, which are proprietary and use a third rail (which is not really common in germany outside of local systems). I always wondered why it took London, the nuclius of the modern urban rail, so long to figure such a system out (Thameslink) and built one (Liz Line).

[@forecast_hinderer]

@JagoHazzard the Shinkansen trains are 405m long. Love to see you cover some jaw dropping content from Japan.

[@MervynPartin]

Level boarding at the central London stations, but parachute needed down to the standard platform height in the suburbs.

[@umark7442]

I used to commute between Slough and Paddington until I decided to take a pay cut and get a job locally as commuting on the Elizabeth line was complete hell. A good few times you got left at Hayes and Harlington to fend for yourselves and the crazy Ubers i've had to pay for as the line was disrupted on the morning of important meetings etc. It's only good for tourists and social use. Commuting drove me up the wall and the expense is crazy.

[@Alextrimble1995]

The 345s are starting to get USB charging ports installed. Seen it on a few my journeys over the last few weeks

[@londonbobby]

When the trains were first introduced there were teething problems, the tannoy messages were far too loud and the air condition was sometimes set up far too high - to the point once in mid-summer I had to get off the train before my stop and walk the rest of the way just to warm myself up. This seems to mostly be fixed now. However the seats are among the least comfortable I have ever sat in and while the transverse seating may allow for more standing passengers they are not as popular, the forward facing seats always seem fill up first followed by the backwards facing seats. Also, it would be better if there were more trains terminating at the above ground platforms at Liverpool Street since it is now very difficult to so get a seat on the through trains during the busy periods which never used to be a problem. I believe that the Essex customers are not very well served by this new service in comparison to what we previously had, although I do accept that is not the experience for other users especially those from Kent.

[@highpath4776]

Certainly scope for Brentwood-Romford-(All Stations) - Ilford-Stratford-Liv St alternating 15mins with Brentwood-Romford-Ilford-All Stations - Liv Street in peaks (to run Liv Street-Stratford-Barking-Barking Riverside (or Pitsea) if C2C wiring can take it) for shoppers

[@birdbrain4445]

I quite like the Class 345s personally, though I don't ride on the line too often so, make of that what you will. I like being in them, the gloriousness of the A/C is appreciated, and they're quiet and smooth. I like the way they look as well, though that's not super relevant. With that said, yeah, the Elizabeth Line is in an awkward spot where it's both a longer distance commuter line and a short distance metro as you say, and the trains are more adapted for the latter. It's a hard balance to strike and it does it... alright. More comfy seats and charging points at least would be a decent improvement, IMO. Great video! The Elizabeth Line is a really great thing and I'm glad to see it finally completed!

[@tenalafel]

There's the same problem regarding how the trains are designed in term of seatings and stuff with the RER in France... Probably because they cover more or less the same kind of transport : Subway like in Central Paris and suburban cummuter trains outside of Paris. And in some cases it can takes 2 hours and a half to go from one end of the line to the other ( Looking at you the RER C ) which is longer than doing a Paris to Lyon travel in TGV.

[@markgr1nyer]

Footage of the 730 is a 196, a DMU built by CAF

[@benedictcunningham3902]

Could we please have a video exploring MTR? It is a topic that I quite simply cannot understand.

[@julianaylor4351]

One day all these modern trains, will be vintage trains, that we train fans will salivate over everytime we see one. ❤️ Myself I watch a variety of major newspapers, news service and major television channel news channels, plus reading a variety of newspapers. Have done so for many years... I'm old, sixties vintage, I know whose got what bias, which makes finding out transport news easier for me. A large amount of the Old Oak Common depot has been taken for HS2, so the depot must be smaller than what was previously there, not unlike the ripping up of lines at Crewe and on many lines like the Chiltern Line. The best toilets in Central London are to be found in art galleries, museums and the few surviving department stores, I recommend John Lewis on Oxford Street and Victoria and Euston mainline have passable ones.

[@FlyingScud]

I think we should be grateful that Bombardier got the contract and not Hitatchi. I thought Ground was a coffee....('Waiter! Waiter! This coffee tastes like mud!' Yes, Sir. It was only Ground ...never mind...). Really nice trains. Love the Liz Line.

[@spitfire1962]

If the HSE were in charge of Sodor, then Thomas and friends would have been closed down years ago. The Large controller would be in prison.

[@Stand663]

I was on the first Elizabeth line commute from Abbey wood to Paddington. I still have the ticket. I was offered 2k from someone Australia for my ticket. No chance. It will be worth a fortune in years to come.

[@luisstransport]

Great video Jago

[@TheEarlofK]

'Culture shock' is a good way to describe the difference between the old and frankly disgusting 315 stock and the new 345 stock. The old trains that plied between Shenfield and Liverpool Street were dirty, smelly, festooned with litter and often graffiti. I can report that the new trains remain airy, clean and thankfully graffiti free, cleaners enter the train as soon as they have reached Shenfield. I read an awful lot of guff about the state of Britain's railways, usually by people who never experienced the old broken-down British Rail and somehow believed it was a 'golden era' of railways; the Elizabeth Line proves that it is not beyond the wit of man to produce a clean, efficient commuter rail service fit for the 21st century.

[@davejacobs4268]

Thought your channel was going downhill information wise ,but nope, back where it should be. Keep it up. Love your stuff.

[@Tim_Small]

The Electrostars on Southern were plagued with really bad software, I remember being on a train that ended up being 4 coaches instead of 8, because they couldn't even make Electrostars running different software versions couple to each other. My favourite Electrostar bug has to be: if the disabled toilet went faulty, it would shut and lock the door and turn the lights off. Not so great if you'd just seen someone come out, and decide now might be a good time to go in. Not quite as evil as the recent deliberate software traps uncovered in some Polish trains but certainly just as chaos inducing.

[@MattF340]

Anyone using Electrostar's would have been familiar with them regularly rebooting during journeys :)

[@FarmYardGaming]

Electrostars also seem to be wacky with coupling and uncoupling every so often

[@davidemmott6225]

How long did it take to sort them out? The 777s on Merseyrail have been having similar problems for at least a year. Apparently the Swiss-built ones don't talk to the other (German? Czech?) ones.

[@adammcveigh]

I do like the Elizabeth line, but that’s when I get it from Maidenhead to central london and can get a seat. Coming the other direction however… At least we don’t have to change at Paddington anymore… remember that phase..

[@beachman8106]

MTR also operate the Melbourne suburban train network under the brand name Metro. I find their trains clean and quiet. I like them apart from the rather hard seats. Nice video. ⭐️⭐️⭐️👍👍👍 from 🇦🇺

[@wad951]

The Lizzy is brill. Drove down to Maidenhead, free parking for old codgers, jumped on the Lizzy to Tottenham Ct Rd and walked straight into the Dominion for a bit of Dirty Dancing. We could have gone to Marylebone and ... and ... and ... Another idea for you. Going back to the LTSR of my boyhood, the original, pre 1930 stations, Plaistow, Dag East Hornchurch were all gaslit until LT took them over. The good old Gas Light and Coke Company of Becton? The aweful hadean slag heap near the East Ham by=pass is now a ski slope I believe ...

[@barrieshepherd7694]

In the bad - pre privatisation consideration days - I remember that this project (CrossRail) started as a British Rail exercise. I wonder what trains we would have got had that continued (albeit operated by a TOC) there would certainly have to have been toilets to comply with the DDR Act and seats would probably have been similar to Thameslink - which is really a North South version of the Lizzy lines East West. I still do not understand how TfL were allowed to get away with no toilets given that TOCs / ROSCOs have had to spend millions retrofitting DDR compliant toilets to mainline and suburban stock.

[@fluffyfour]

Have to say, these trains have the hardest seats trying to look like soft seats, I have ever experienced. They may as well be plain wood (carbon fibre? plastic?).

[@highpath4776]

Still better than the central line

[@PoshManSweets]

I'd say the Class 700 has the same issues as the 345s, when trying to do both! They do at least have toilets but I'd say, overall the environment is nicer inside a 345 than a 700! At least on the 2+2 seating, the 345s have armrests :D

[@lawrencejob]

The lack of toilets is insane - the number of times I’ve felt ill and had to run around stations looking for toilets that aren’t inexplicably closed

[@thesteelrodent1796]

In Denmark they got rid of toilets on commuter trains in the 1970s and in recent years toilets on stations have also vanished to save on maintenance, apart from a couple of the busiest stations. We do still have toilets on the cross-country trains, in theory, but quite often only half of them are functional. It's the same with public toilets in general all over the world - they vanish because they get vandalized and no one wants to pay for the maintenance. We've become a world where we have to evolve away from requiring toilets in order to keep up with the times

[@julianaylor4351]

Try mainline stations, Euston and Victoria have the best ones, museums, art galleries and department stores like John Lewis on Oxford Street.

[@lzh4950]

@@thesteelrodent1796 Meanwhile Singapore will probably use the problem of vandalism to justify corporal punishment. Over here most stations have toilets but in the unpaid areas i.e. you have to exit via the ticket barriers to use them. So if you need the toilet halfway thru your journey the fare system will think you've broken up your journey into 2 shorter ones, & charge you more as our fare system's fare per km decreases the longer a journey is

[@thegreatwandering]

Elizabeth line is very similar to what Germany has as the S-Bahn. Long distance commuter trains on normal track with a core section in the city the system is based in - usually underground. The start-up sound of the train is similar to the Class 430 here which operates on quite a few S-Bahn systems, unsurprising considering it's also built by Bombardier, though the difference is they're usually ~70m units and you can stack 3 to get ~210m for maximum capacity. They're also built more as a long distance instead of commuter seating arrangement, being typical train sets, no lengthwise seats. Reliability wise it's hit or miss, some work just fine, others are very prone to breaking. I blame Alstom's part for that.

[@CranehawkPilot]

I really enjoy your content @JagoHazzard. But just one thing, when I went on the Elizabeth line in January from Stratford to LHR T5, I saw USB charging ports on the forward/rearward facing seat walls. But I only saw 2 every car or something. There’s barely any of them but there are some

[@FarmYardGaming]

Look between the tip-up seats, near the gangways and between longitudinal seats. They're not always on both sides.

[@CranehawkPilot]

@@FarmYardGaming yeah. It’s mostly on one side. But the Elizabeth line does have power with USB compatibility but are hard to find.

[@FarmYardGaming]

@@CranehawkPilot They're not particularly fast either, it struggled to charge my phone but is worth trying again

[@sirmeowthelibrarycat]

🤔 Jago, l have to thank 👏 the builders and operators of this railway line, as the problems with the Central line seem never ending. Ealing Broadway has benefited immensely from having a fast service through London, which l use frequently 😲!

[@Alessandro---]

This comes exactly at the right moment, after an entire train (and those behind it) spent what seemed like an eternity yesterday evening because “one of the levers on a door has not reset and the train can’t run until we find which one”. So much for automation… the Lizzy is still my favourite though.

[@hotelmario510]

"You can't trust trains to make difficult decisions, I've seen Thomas the Tank Engine." That one caught me off guard.

[@highpath4776]

"Le Monde" takes on a World-Wide View. That is a bit of a tautology

[@ajs41]

You can use these trains to get some exercise, if they're not too crowded. It takes about 2 minutes to walk from one end to the other (if you walk pretty quickly).

[@paultidd9332]

Good video and good observations. I, until very recently, had only ever used the Elizabeth Line as a ‘metro service’ and how gorgeous it is for that but only a few weeks ago I was flying between Heathrow and Australia for three weeks and the Elizabeth Line was the cheapest and easiest form of transport from Kings Cross via Liverpool Street and it was here were I experienced the Elizabeth Line trains problems of not ‘safe-ish’ luggage space. Being more a longer journey I wanted to travel using the transverse seats facing in the direction of travel which meant my large case (remember three weeks in Australia!) blocking access to two of the transverse seats nearest the window as it sat on floor between the two and I sat on an the aisle seat next to the - which on my return to the UK after a near 24 hour flight got some pulled faces in the morning London rush hour but being so tired after such a flight I didn’t care and it was going to stay there, as was I, where I could keep it safe in my sight!

[@narendamodaran4781]

One of the key issues the line faces when it’s headed to/from Heathrow is it connects a major airport and luggage volumes are bound to be larger than satellite airports. In my view the 345s aren’t viable on rush hour services to Heathrow. It’s definately a leg up on the Tube! Fantastic video information though! Trains up!

[@heli-crewhgs5285]

Has anyone noticed the ‘stale damp mop’ smell at Farringdon, Liverpool Street and Whitechapel Stations? I often get an eastbound (destination Shenfield) train from Stratford (previous stop Liverpool Street), which arrives with that smell. It disappears as the journey progresses.

[@stevejacob4375]

No mention of the proposed extension from Abbey Wood to Gravesend via Ebbsfleet and ultimately across The Thames to Sheffield ?

[@andrewgwilliam4831]

The new trains are a huge improvement on their predecessors on the Shenfield line. More spacious, easier to get on and off, and I suspect much less likely to have people overheating on a hot day.

[@2760ade]

300 million journeys in about 20 months is absolutely staggering!! They could afford those five extra train sets easily I reckon!

[@itogi]

"Ground" in the sponsor's logo looks more like GROIIND

[@merlijnwiersma7801]

Best TFL stock I've ever been on. Also only TFL stock I've ever been on.😂 But coming from Heathrow I noticed the luggage issue (especially when the train became indeed very crowded).

[@eirinym]

An important bit of information about Bombardier (Transportation), the designer of these trains: In the future, new ones would be built by Alstom since Alstom bought Bombardier in 2021.

[@jameswarner5809]

Having ridden (rode? rided?!) the Elizabeth Line on the short journey between Farringdon and Paddington I agree about the discomfort of the seats. They are rather hard and I can imagine a serious numb bum would result if you were commuting from the suburbs or, heaven help you, travelling between Essex and Berkshire.

[@AFCManUk]

No, Jago, you're thinking of the 456 in Torchwood. . .But easy mistake to make ;)

[@gritintheoyster]

Very good as always (apart from the 25Kw - that would be a lot of power!). The lack of luggage provision from Heathrow is bonkers, and the lack of toilets led to people self-evacuating, possibly in more ways than one from the debacle on the line west of Paddington on December 7th.

[@h.martinsmith7839]

If the Airport (Heathrow) & City Line was developed (see above comment) it could have more provision for luggage without compromising the Reading Branch, commuter needs. Reading Trains could then also have WC's. Bit of a no brainer!

[@kevinjones4559]

Used Burnham Station out west recently and it is much busier since Elizabeth line. Lots of street parking nearby (except 08:00 to 10:00 weekdays) .

[@nicktecky55]

We're watching you... (a concerned Burnham resident)

[@Wharferine]

Has anyone else noted how the walls of the tunnel stations are already looking grubby and dirty. Not just where the seats are, everywhere below 2 metres.

[@mickeydodds1]

"No Toilets". British railways until very recently, and perhaps right up to present, still utilize, on a number of train sets, the good old fashioned Victorian breakthrough traditional train toilet, which utilizes a pedal and the updraft of rushing air from the moving train to deposit the waste directly onto the track, with no further chemical treatment. The horror of instituting this time honoured system on a massively densely used service in deep tunnels, can only be imagined.

[@andrewreynolds4949]

Drop-through toilets have not been legally allowed for use on the system for a number of years now, holding tanks have been a requirement for 20 years. Some charter coaching stock apparently still had drop-through toilets until relatively recently, but the exemptions have since run out

[@FarmYard-Trains]

I believe SWR 701s (if they even exist now) use CET toilets to actually treat the... contents

[@1234j]

Your videos are a breath of fresh air - ironic, as it's in London. Thank you for excellent content. Cheers, mate

[@d.lam.8178]

Standing room only feels like an understatement

[@ChubbyChecker182]

Irs jam packed in Whitechapel at 1pm in the afternoon the last 2 weeks, i cant believe how busy the Eluzabeth Line is.

[@legitibitmaster3264]

They surely need to get toilets & power sockets fitted asap as they’re more long journey built trains as if they’ll sometimes run some rare ecs’s on greater Anglia routes & possibly further from reading on the gwml along side more units will be getting built tho for funding issues these days this big project improvements gonna be held back for some good time as of refurbishing the 1992 stock & rollout for the new Piccadilly Bakerloo line 2024/5 stock units insane

[@jimmeltonbradley1497]

Fascinating. I might even use the line one of these days.

[@IndaloMan]

Love the "Exposing" poster! The UK has changed since I emigrated to Spain six years ago... 🤔

[@w00df0rd]

1:00 -building behind train - the Flying Angel - in 1987, cannibal Peter Bryan, tried killing someone chucking them out of a window from the 6th floor.

[@PsychicLord]

That must have been the event that gave Putin a fresh understanding of window misfortunes.

[@roberthuron9160]

Question; if the Elizabeth line is over 40+ miles,end to end,and journey times,exceed an hour and a half(1-1/2),there would definitely be a need for toilets! The Long Island on both the Port Washington,and Oyster Bay branches have toilets built in,and that goes back to beginnings! Also GO transit,out of Toronto,also have toilets,as there are coupled suburban services! SEPTA,out of Philadelphia,also has provisions! Anyway,TfL doesn't have to look to far,to find prototypes! Thank you,Jago,maybe some bureaucrat with a tiny bladder,might give consideration to the unlucky passenger caught out of Heathrow,and has a similar condition! Thank you 😇 😊!

[@francisboyle1739]

The lack of toilets is unconscionable. It effectively makes the line unusable for a large section of the population.