Jak & Daxter - The Fate Of Sandover Village - Predestination Paradox

[@knightslayer6161]

I finally realized when Samos yells “find yourself Jak” it wasn’t motivation to keep himself going through the rift, it was Samos literally saying find child Jak. Lol. Finally noticed than after like 10 yrs

[@VtnVivi]

:D

[@ProjectRocketCHNL]

Mind blown actually, played it for years and never thought about it

[@adolfogarcia6206]

Samos knew something…

[@mykelmellen2378]

...yes

[@kitkatkruncher22]

Duh,I figured it out at the end of my first play through and the huge hint/giveaway when they found young and old Samos in the prison.

[@mamayollama]

So no ones gonna talk about the fisherman becoming an exotic dancer, or the sculptor getting addicted to painkillers and marrying his muse???

[@noblesseoblige319]

.... Wait what

[@mamayollama]

​@noblesseoblige319 I had to rematch because two years later I looked at my comment and thought why did I say that lol. It's in the stratagy guide. 4:40

[@animal245533]

​@noblesseoblige319 The Jak 3 strategy guide has a section explaining what happened to the villagers in jak and daxter. Doubtful it was meant to take seriously though. Normally strategy guides aren't written by the developers, instead the strategy guide company. Also I'm not sure as this was when I was a teen, but I think the entries are written by Daxter.

[@tvhead7074]

The reason Kor didn’t immediately attack Jak in Haven City was because he couldn’t transform to his full potential with the shield wall still up. In the construction site scene he says “Without the shield wall disrupting my powers in the city I’m at my full potential now”. Had he transformed right when he met Jak he would’ve been in a weaker form and probably gotten killed from the guards and dark Jak.

[@noblesseoblige319]

Additionally, he knew young-jak was... Well, a young jak. He also knew that the kid and jak were the same person the entire time. So if kor was the type to immediately attempt to murder jak, he could have at literally any point that he was in the same room as jak. Hell, he even could have at the construction site, when it was clear he knew about jak AND was at full power. Kor just isn't that kind of guy. He's calculating and patient as hell. Old jak was incredibly useful and the only reason kor got access to the egg, let alone got the shield walls down.

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

@@noblesseoblige319yep, why kill Jak when you can use Mar himself to help you take down his city 😂 Honestly it’s devious, his plan is to use the man who founded the city to help undermine and destroy it.

[@playmsbk]

For sandover village, I think there was a line by torn at the start of jak 2 that implied the dead city (what we later learn is the ruins of sandover village) was part of haven city up until relatively recently when the metalheads launched an assault. Edit: opened up my ps3 and checked the cutscenes, it's the one scene where torn gives you the Vulcan barrel. He mentions how the metalheads broke through the old city walls and the baron pulled back and created the new wall, leaving all outside of it to die, if not for the shadow (young samos) somehow stopping the attack.

[@minibleau]

late reply! thats good thinking, the issue is jak 2 is set 300 years in future ( debatable if its 200 or 500, various pieces of info state differently, but its widely accepted its 300 years, assuming kid jak is 2 or 3 years old, and jak end precursor legacy at 16 years old, that means samos aged noticeably while jak grew up, i dont think the sages can live hundreds of years. this is just a guess as to what torn was referring to, i imagine its just a hint that samos knew the life seed was there and originally worked and protected it in old town before the metalhead attack that forced them out, torn stated ''only the shadow stayed behind and somehow stopped the attack'', i guess he used his powers and defended the life seed, thats why later on we notice the metal heads we're drawn to its power. Waffling over, hopefully that sheds some light!

[@noblesseoblige319]

@@minibleau huh? What does the time it's set in and the age of samos have to do with anything? Old-Samos (the one from precursor legacy) is in the future, so it doesn't matter how old he can live. The one who protected old Town is the young one. The one that was born a long time after the events of jak 1. Am I misunderstanding your point?

[@noblesseoblige319]

​@minibleau Oh, I probably should clarify a bit more. What I mean is that young samos and old samos were never originally from the past of precursor legacy at all. They were both born around 300 years (or whatever the timeline says jak 2 takes place) in the future. For the sake of argument, let's say samos was born at 250 years after the first game, 50 years before the second starts. At some point in those 50 years, the metal heads attack and the baron pulled back the forces and made a new wall, leaving sandover to die, at which point samos did something and helped people escape to behind the new wall. Buuut I think I understand now that you're referring to samos going from how he looks as young samos and how he looks as old samos in a matter of 10-15 years (as he was raising jak in the past), right? Which is odd. No idea how the hell that works. It's technically possible he just aged suuuper poorly? So that's still an open question, but either way, we know for sure that samos was born sometime between the first and second games no matter what, so he almost certainly was involved with saving some people in sandover during the time the baron left them to die, which would've had to happen rather recently since the baron isn't all that old.

[@JayJoeVid4EVER]

I wish that there was some remnants of Sandover Village in the sequels or even in an planned project. I just miss the nostalgia.

[@mikeexits]

I get that, at the same time though it was really cool to get that yin-yang dynamic. Jak and Daxter was the Hero's Journey but fantasical and bright and much more innocent, while Jak II was the opposite; gritty, dark, political, tragic. Jak's journey in the first game started because he wanted to change his friend back to human form. That never happened because the one who could turn him back was straight up evil. A sort of mini-tragedy within the bright, beautiful world. That would be yang, mostly white with the black dot inside. Meanwhile the journey in Jak II started because their home got overrun by murderous creatures and destined to be completely wiped out, so in a last ditch effort they (accidentally, lol) propel themselves into the future, leaving everything they know behind. Tragedy is the basis for the story of Jak II and it's what catalyzes the rest of the story for our main cast of characters, and ultimately changes the future, sort of like how the future changed Jak, but instead of having a corrupting influence they purge a large cesspool of corruption from that world.. They are immersed in a dark, gritty world, but in that world they have the light of hope pushing them forward (even if it starts in Jak as lust for revenge, it does transmute into a more positive and pure intention by the end); perfectly visualized with the Yin symbol, mostly black with a dot of light in the middle. Jak TPL is Yang, Jak II is Yin. I won't try to analyze or break this one down here, but I think Jak 3 synthesizes both and taps back into its roots in mysticism (it certainly helps that both the Seal of Mar and the light/dark eco meters, as well as the light/dark eco wells on the ground, resemble the Yin Yang symbol) but goes even deeper when Jak finds his inner light (light eco) to balance out the dark inside and has control of both. He's a legendary warrior and borderline demigod-like being by that point haha. And the reveal of who the precursors are is a perfect analogy for the "Cosmic Joke" (or "Cosmic Giggle" as Terence McKenna likes to call it).

[@mykelmellen2378]

You can do the Jak 2 disc glitch (assuming you still have a PS2) and play around in a broken version of Sandover. I still remember the first time I found out about that.

[@MiniZurkon8008]

"Paradoxes stacked on top of paradoxes, conundrums on top of conundrums..."

[@weshansen7892]

Kor needed Jak for the precursor egg, killing him comes after.

[@VtnVivi]

Kor specifically needed young Jak for that egg. Killing would be referred to old Jak.

[@Ymilliaine]

Kor needed a Jak untainted by Dark Eco to hatch the egg. If Kor had captured Jak in the prologue before Baron experimented on him, that would have counted.

[@AMPGames]

@@Ymilliaine The Baron already had him instantly. Kor couldn't just attack the Baron's fortress to take Jak due to the deal they had, and he already had young Jak to open the stone. He needed the older jack to find the precursor stone.

[@AMPGames]

@@VtnVivi He needed the older Jak to find the precursor stone. That's why he didn't care about Jak finding out he was the metal head leader once they knew the Baron had the stone. He knew the Baron would show Jak where the stone (the bomb) was and that Jak would go after him, therefore bringing the stone to him. Without older Jak, he would have never gotten the stone.

[@stevencraeynest7729]

@@AMPGames no, Kor couldn't attack because at that point the shield walls were still an issue for him

[@wPablo]

Jak is Mar and when they travel into the future at the begining of Jak II in that exact moment, Jak AKA Mar arrives there time traveling too saving the village and then building Haven City, here you have the plot for Jak 4

[@YellowJelloMusic]

That would actually fit the whole over the top time traveling theme. I swear ND must have been like: 'You know how this time loop situation is hella confusing?' 'Yeah' 'What if confused the players even more and said that Jak's real name is Mar?' 'So they think he's his own ancestor? Nice!'

[@Lonewolf6565]

The plot of Jak 4 was going to be going backwards through time with the precursors to build their empire, assume the role of Mar, and ultimately meet Kor to begin the timeloop. By the time Jak 1 starts adult Jak is either long dead or back in the future post Jak 3. The timetravel thing was just a lazy way for them to write in how the Jak games now have flying cars, guns, and the hoverboard as well as make it easy to write sequels or prequels with the time travel shit with little regard for the lores continuity. They were targeting an older demographic that liked edgy shit. They were going after the kids not quite old enough to buy GTA without an adult but still wanted the GTA style of game.

[@Synin-p2l]

@@Lonewolf6565people still love and adore edgy stuff bud. Now hush your mouth💅

[@MythicSuns]

Blimey, I knew the lore was deep but I wasn’t expecting the bible to get involved.

[@VtnVivi]

Heheh

[@boyzndahood781]

Lmaoo

[@sckem1316]

Blimey indeed

[@mikeexits]

1. Ashelyn saying "Jak is Mar... THE Mar?!" I think refers to the Mar that was Damas's son, rather than the Mar of legend. I think it makes sense for Damas to name his son after such a legendary figure. He was a warrior in spirit after all. And Ashelyn clearly had connections to Spargus as shown at the start of Jak 3. So she probably knew Damas and knew he had a son named Mar, leading to her surprise to realize that Jak was his son when she heard Jak referred to by his original name for the first time. 2. Kor probably doesn't kill or take Jak on sight because, well, it's been a long time, and since the world has changed and gotten a lot more complicated, he wanted to use Jak for his own gain, which he does through Jak II. Which is easy considering his rage and desire for revenge, having been tainted by dark eco and traumatized for 2 years straight. If he helps Jak feel like he's getting closer to his goal, he can ask for other favors and do a mutually beneficial exchange, with Kor having the advantage of knowing he holds all the cards. Anyway, this is just how I interpret it. I used to think Jak was the Mar of legend, but some analysis videos here on YT convinced me otherwise with other evidence. Plus Jak being the Mar of Legend would open up far, far more time paradoxes (time travel) and plot holes galore.

[@VtnVivi]

Nice one!

[@mikeexits]

@@VtnVivi Thanks. I always love seeing new Jak and Daxter content so thank you for creating this and other videos!

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

Also it’s an extremely powerful villain move to use Mar to destroy haven city. Using the prophesied hero for your own gain is a baller move for the bad guy.

[@JusticeSolaris85]

Kor wanted Jak to open the precursor stone, that's why he didn't kill young Jak, not until he opened the stone. Kor was chasing Jak this entire time because he was the only one (or the only one Kor knew) able to open the stone and give Kor and the metal heads a great source of power

[@fredranzalot4849]

On the subject of colored eco sages, I think they might have actually been a *new* phenomenon in Jak and Daxter. Consider the following: Samos traveled back in time with Jak, and spent roughly 10 years before the events of Precursor Legacy. There is no mention (to my memory) of there ever being two green eco sages at once, or of Samos' predecessor. It seems highly unusual that there would be a red sage, yellow sage, blue sage, and *two* dark sages, but no green eco sage hanging around when Samos came back from the future. To me, this indicates that when Samos went to the past, he taught people how to become Sages themselves. Does this contradict existing lore? Probably. But I said it anyway, so there.

[@bigbossadidoss8678]

No no, I think you’re correct. I think this is pretty accurate.

[@fulltimeslackerii8229]

or that maybe one of gol and maia were the original green eco sage and one corrupted the other since green and dark were kinda opposites in jak 1 (one heals the other is instant death)

[@buenoslane2538]

this literally makes the most accurate sense . in the future is where samos got the seed to become the green eco sage to learn how to channel it. he then went to the past and became the green sage which means the concept of being a sage wasn’t a thing until he returned to the past. wow . mind literally blown

[@K-11609]

That is very much plausible. I also noticed someone on KZbin mentioning that each of the sages besides Samos utilized technology to harness their respective eco, using staffs or suits to channel the eco for them, while Samos had a natural affinity to Green Eco. This could’ve just been because of all the Ecos, green was the most attuned to nature, but this theory makes it much more deep.

[@matthewroberts198]

And maybe Samos taught others how to use the other ecos that were available in the past (Red, Blue, Yellow) to combat the Metal Heads in the coming future. And because Kor needed Dark Eco, have someone learn how to control that, especially so that Kor can't get to it or weaken him somehow

[@stefanloncar6868]

My theory is that villagers esceaped Sandover to safe place or hid somewhere until City was build Because Dead Town used to be part of Haven City wich has Samos’s hut

[@VtnVivi]

Possibility!

[@MazaJesi91]

I would really love to see a new Jak trilogy, where the 3 chapters focus on Jak and Daxter being called to travel through a time portal from the epochs after the events of Jak 3 directly to the periods of the foundation of Haven City, helping build the city and eventually discovering that he is actually Mar, the hero and founder of the City.

[@VtnVivi]

Ooooo :O

[@coletontewinkel7551]

was thinking that for a long time

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

That’s the ideal Jak 4.

[@EVILBUNNY28]

Imagine Jak 4 starts out in Sandover village and Jak just wakes up from a nap and all of Jak 2 & 3 was just a dream, and they're still yet to open the portal

[@SuperWorldJumper]

The Sages probably helped many of the villagers survive and escape. They most likely hid in caves and ancient precursor buildings until they could regroup and come up with a plan to drive off the metal heads. At some point in this age of resistance Marr was born and led the people to reclaiming what was once Sandover Village and the surrounding areas. You also got to understand that Haven City’s population is HUGE compared to Sandover and the neighboring villages, so of course there had to be survivors to have descendants. Unless they came from elsewhere in the world. As for the ways of eco, it just wasn’t as important as technological and weapon advancement. They did channel eco into weapons but that’s about it so I’m guessing that’s where the Sage’s knowledge went.

[@VtnVivi]

I'd like to believe the descendants of Haven are from a different village, that'd make the most amount of sense.

[@CtKEngage]

The House of Mar fronted by the sages? If that's so then wouldn't they also be responsible for building Mar's tomb possibly?

[@tep5132]

This is how you fix the paradox. Make it so Jak isn’t Mar and Mar is actually Jak’s son that goes back in time

[@SupportGamin2024]

No 😂

[@CtKEngage]

Damas was the ruler of Haven City before Praxis took over, and 'Mar' was his son. The amulet/seal young Jak has is pretty much a precursor object given its power. Where was this amulet found? Makes me wonder if the precursors ALSO were technically builders of Haven City and bestowed the name Mar on Jak retrospectively as a precursor name to make the events of the entire story take place after finding said amulet, where Jak is actually Mar from a lore and game standpoint.

[@BILLYLTD1408]

"If Kor was looking for Jak in this scene, then how come Kor didn't try to kill jak when he arrived at Haven City from the get-go?" OK, this is just my best guess (and apologies if someone has already come up with an answer, I know it's been a while/and also sorry if anything I mention seems obvious, I'm just trying to go through this step by step) but: -Kor immediately popping out of the rift gate shows that he already has access to one at the time Jak opens his own, which assumedly (is that a word?) must be the one inside the metal head nest at the end of Jak 2 -When the crew arrive in the future from the rift rider getting destroyed early, they get separated, landing in different areas of Haven City. These two occurrences show that the path between rift gates is not only through time, but across distances. Otherwise, the future gate/rift entrence would have been in Dead Town near Samos's future hut, and the crew would have all landed in the same area. I'm assuming they got separated because they arrived in the future after getting spit out of different parts of the rift. Kor didn't kill Jak as soon as he arrived in Haven City because he didn't know where Jak was. He wasn't expecting Jak to leave the rift early and get flung off somewhere else. All this being said, it leaves me to believe that there aren't multiple Kors from different universes, and it's all the same Kor Again sorry that this is so late, I'm just brainstorming for fun lol

[@VtnVivi]

Nice brainstorming!

[@mikeystir3333]

kor says that he can't use his abilities in the city until he confronts Jak and reveals he's the metal head leader in the construction site so that's why he didn't kill him right away.

[@Poldovico]

I think shooting him in the back with a gun could have worked. Maybe not immediately, but once he realized what was up he would have had plenty of opportunities to arm himself and do it. Totally fails the style and aesthetic of the game, though :P

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

Also Jak is the only one who can use certain stones because he’s Mar and blood of Mar.

[@michaeljude2105]

Jak and Daxter's time travel plot is so confusing and a headache waiting to happen.

[@VtnVivi]

Most complex out of the bunch.

[@erikdeusenberry5307]

Its multiple timelines in order for the villian to ensure their future they went to the past that sorta thing.

[@magne7771]

Jak 4 is easy. Atleast Jak himself goes back, and sets off to Weekend At Bernies' his origin story. He goes off, finds out that time is _elastic_ in some ways, discovers himself in the _first_ timeline, and uses that aforementioned elasticity to nudge things _just_ into place, so that the timelines sync up. He creates a situation, where the paradox creates itself, and remains stable enough to happen into perpetuity. Hell, I could imagine it being a Crash Bandicoot throwback, with the level selection and portals. But that's if the focus of that game isn't on how he _gets_ there, and ends on a cliffhanger as he goes back in time. Although, I can kind of see it turning into "Jak 1 Redux - Now with added Darkmakers, Metalheads and Krimzon Guards all over the place. This is, honestly, all off the top of my head- and I figured atleast the first half would be apparent to most. Just the same, I also thought it was a common understanding that the metalheads _ate_ eco. Not that it was for some _weapon_ or _plan._

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for sharing!

[@TheELASESINADOR]

What I always thought is that in a hypotetical Jak IV, Gol and Maya, fused by dark eco over centuries awakens and tries to destroy the world. Then Jak has to find 3 youngers proficient at red, yellow and blue eco in order to rebuild the machine that centuries ago in Jak 1 fused the four eco to produce white eco (green eco would been chaneled by Keira, if she did not go back in time with little Jak, I don't remember), then use it against the abomination that Gol and Maya have become. But, because this Jak has also dark eco powers because the dark eco experiments in Jak 2, when Jak touchs the white eco, something strange happens that makes Jak to disappear and probably die destroying the last enemy for the future. In this state, a fourth young boy, proficient at dark eco helps him to recover. Yes, this young boy is Gol and the other three are the other sages that, for a reason that I cannot make out, they have to travel back in time, maybe in order to save Jak (Keira stays at the future). With time the only thing that they can do is to put the broken Jak in stasis and continue studying eco, build the machine that would make white eco in the future and continue to find a way to revive Jak. With time, Gol falls in love with Maya, a girl from that time. But she gets sick and Gol starts to, not trying to find a way to revive Jak, but use dark eco as a cure to Maya, making both of them lose their way that would end them being the Gol and Maya we know of Jak 1. The other sages would continue to find a way to revive the stasis Jak, and is not after the Jak of Jak 1 goes to the future, opening the portal that brings all the metal heads to the past, that Jak is finally recovered, has to fight a new enemy and then become Mar. The other sages, after seeing what happened to Gol and Maya, thought that the eco knowledge is too dangerous and can corrupt anybody, not because it was just dark eco but any eco can corrupt them, maybe even put them as bosses in this Jak IV or even Jak V (think a old Samos corrupted by the green eco defend the metal heads and Jak having to defeat Samos, it would be a great ending if they picture it right, not that is easy). Maybe the corrupted sages granted protection over what ended being the nest of the metal heads of the future and that's why there isn't eco disciples at the future and aren't erradicated the metal heads.

[@SupportGamin2024]

Maya is gol's sister bro

[@VtnVivi]

But wait, Gol and Maia are siblings :O

[@SupportGamin2024]

@@VtnVivi lol

[@TheELASESINADOR]

Didn't know, didn't remember. Just wanted to make a closed loop that explains the past important characters with things that I think would be great to happen in the future. Crazy fan theories a suppose.

[@SupportGamin2024]

@@TheELASESINADOR your theory/story is still good though,if i was from naughty dog games,I would hire you.

[@diggy1147]

Jak 4 starts like this: Jak is significantly older, not like an old man, but it's been years. Jak locates another rift gate, and due to his guilt of causing the metal heads to invade Sandover Village, decides to travel back to right after the metal heads invade Sandover Village and try to stop them, but soon finds out that it's an impossible task and is stuck in the past because the metal heads have control over the rift to the future. Idk just an idea.

[@caolangadd9734]

Sounds cool. Jack stuck back in the past fighting metal heads, doing quests, etc;) Something far cry like but Still Jak! Vehicles, large map, different areas, abilities and like skill system from something like skyrim? Weapon customisations, cool character's, good story, 4k, 120hz. Body breakdown like gears of war when shot. Very gritty dark jak game, hum on! Lul;) Dark sandy environment like Jak 3 maybe. Thunder and lightning, sandstorms, dynamic weather. Wet dream 😍 😋 hahaha

[@MaoRatto]

@@caolangadd9734 I think it would be cool to have a spinoff from one the villagers of Sandover or Jak 1 universe EXPERIENCE the transitions of Jak 2, mainly the invasion of Metal Heads. Like build up the character a character that fits perfectly, but I think it would work as a Lurker as Lurkers are proven to be sentient, they only followed the orders of Gol and Mia ( whatever her name is )... As it would 1. Given perfect time tell a story Metal Heads vs. Most native residents of each village. Make it a 5 part of how each village tried to fight off Metal Heads. Same visuals or similar style, and hell... I find it would be pretty engaging with plenty of possibilities to explain the backstory of Damos. Jak's father would able to play apart of it.

[@K-11609]

And then Jak subsequently becomes, or maybe inspires the legend of Mar. either he becomes the Mar, as is his namesake, or he meets the man who would eventually become Mar, and give that person the inspiration to become said legend.

[@Theottselmaster]

Theres surely no way the metalheads DIDNT free Maia and Gol, afterall thats a lot of Darkeco... Such a shame this series never got more lore. So much they could have gone into.

[@VtnVivi]

Meaning they got rescued in the present timeline correct?

[@magicmanscott40k]

No idea. Not even the giant robot couldn't break it.

[@ToxicDarkLord]

@@VtnVivi I prefer the theory that Gol is Kor

[@mikeexits]

Imagine if Jak and Daxter's world got as much worldbuidling and lore as the Mass Effect or Star Wars series. Holy shit I'd be a happy being.

[@Rachebart]

@@ToxicDarkLord thats what i think all the time. The look. And the name. Gol=Kor. Jak=Mar.

[@stardogsmasher6217]

The Fate of Sandover Village... Oh what an interesting take as we never know how it turned out, I mean we know what happened but HOW it happened. We know that Jak and Samos time traveled from the past and the future, which yeah looks like a big paradox loop. Seeing how alternate time lines in time travel stories is a plot point for story telling, it's likely that the one in the games we played is one of the many outcomes. And you may be wondering how that may affect a loop or rather break it? Well, it's caused by Kor when he went out with a bang damaging the precursor ring. But that's a whole another topic, going back to Sandover Village, it's likely the residents were killed by the Metal Heads and soon other villages followed and realize they must come together and unit as one (if you wanna believe that makes sense). And those Eco Sages were likely to have offsprings that we have yet to see and become a bit more human like (if that makes sense despite the Sages are colored skins). But my biggest question is this when it comes to Sandover Village; Howcome Samos's hut is left standing unlike the rest of the whole village? Well clearly level layouts designs from one game to another are different but let's take a different route. You know how Haven City changed from Jak 2 to Jak 3 to Jak X Combat Racing as the size and scale goes? Well what if Jak and Daxter's world is ever changing on a yearly basis or so? You might be raising your eyebrows and scratching your head wondering what I'm getting at. You know how the whole planet is one giant metal oddly shaped ball thats covered with biomass, eco, rocks, dirt, etc. What if the whole planet size precursor temple for a lack of a better word that changes its environment much like how our world has continent plates and move the planets thousands upon millions of years ago as if Jak and Daxter's home world is like moving gears inside of a clock or an engine of a car. That and add in some eco, it's likely its a world changer (in some matter, I have no idea how it works and not a scientist).

[@VtnVivi]

Interesting take! As for Samos' Hut being the only one standing, what if the Life Seed was the reason? As for the skin color of the sages, well we'd like to believe eco turned their skin that way due to extended contact. So naturally, their offsprings would look like Keira in terms of skin color.

[@stefanloncar6868]

Funny i was just replaying trilogy when you uploaded this video

[@kallelaukkoski5706]

Same! Just finished jak 3 on hero mode

[@Malnaxe]

Greetings Stefan... I've been waiting for you...

[@diggy1147]

I literally 100%'d The Precursor Legacy in like 4ish hours lol

[@xaracen7207]

I hold to the theory that Jak is Mar, or at least fathers Mar with Keira, that they go back to the past again, build the original rift rider, and bobs your uncle either that or young Samos realises that old Samos doesn't remember the past young Samos is currently experiencing exactly, as youd think having the ability to remember the future you experienced in your past would be a big help, why didnt old samos know about mars tomb, about kor's betrayal? young Samos realises he has a chance to change the outcome, and NEVER RETURNS TO THE FUTURE, Jak never becomes corrupted with dark eco, thus being able to fulfil the prophecies that corrupted Jak could not, becomes mar when the metal heads invade his timeline naturally, that kor being the one we see in the intro of Jak 2.

[@javiermagana6364]

The time machine is basically timeless

[@CHURCHISAWESUM]

Fitting, hilarious, and terrifying

[@Skimmerlit]

I love your lore videos. I’ve been missing Jak and Daxter. Keep up the good work!

[@VtnVivi]

I appreciate it!!!

[@Gendreau113]

You know, there is something I think too this and a way around that paradox. Sandover Village eventually evolved into Haven City without the initial time traveling. Metal heads appear and start attacking Haven City. Jak grows up in Haven City. Kor and the metal heads takes over city in current time. People go back in time, they find out why Kor won the war and realize they need Jak to be older as he has the special abilities to defeat Kor. They take Young Jak to the past to keep him from perishing, Kor finds out what they did while time traveling and now he no longer has control over Haven City yet. Kor wants to kill Jak, and sees the rift gate open and infects sandover village in the past this time instead, witch causes sandover village to become new haven earlier then it did previously as now the metal heads infected it ahead of time. Sandover is destroyed as the metal heads infect it, and Kor starts attacking and looking for Jak. Haven City Forms. Jak goes to the future, lands in Haven City, and kills Kor as everyone wanted. Then sends his younger self into the past to follow in line with what "they" did prior (the first time Young Jak was sent back in time, not sure who "they" would be...) Just so there wouldn't be a time paradox with two of the same people in the same timeline. Then Jak continues on living and becomes Mar.

[@mikeexits]

But Mar had long gone and left his impact in Haven City. If you're going to explain that using the "Jak is the Mar of Legend" theory/interpretation, you'd need to involve more time travel, and it would probably be far too dangerous to try to create another stable time loop, of that kind of immense magnitude.

[@FlyingcupNsourcer]

@@mikeexits Isn't that what the precursors do at the end of Jak 3 take him to see the universe and drop him off as if he never left? But that's just my interpretation.

[@firionkaiser8291]

Actually this does work because Jak 3 indicates the metal head invasion was going to happen. It was inevitable so the original timeline it did indeed happen later.

[@Zeldatheoristb211]

@@firionkaiser8291 Not to mention that even if the Metal Heads didn't show up. *The Dark Makers* was eventually going to arrive and take over the World. My guess, and theory is that the Dark Makers created the Metal Heads using their Dark Eco Technology. The similarities between the Dark Makers and the Metal Heads are uncanny! Every species that exist within the Metal Heads faction also exist in the Dark Makers faction as well! I believe the Dark Makers probably created the Metal Heads from their own Dark Eco warped sense of life, creating creatures that will destroy all organic life and be completely parasitic. Very similar to what *Gol* and *Maia Acheron* did when creating those *Dark Eco Monsters* when we fight them at their Citadel? Those Dark Eco Monsters could be "proto-types" to the Metal Heads.

[@firionkaiser8291]

@@Zeldatheoristb211 Exactly! Man this makes me want to explore the original timeline a bit. I actually made a random theory/joke using that "Jak I'm your father line" in one of the Jak 3 commercials. I randomly came up with a theory suggesting in the original timeline that Jak descended from original timeline daxter's bloodline. Even though Daxter had red/orange and yellow hair, there's like a 300 year gap between the era of Sandover Village and Haven City, which may have been longer assuming some events happened later originally. Would be cool knowing that Jak's best friend is technically also his ancestor in another timeline. I think the time travel paradox would also prevent Jak from seizing to exist. All depends on how you view time travel when it comes to that, such as the one line theory or the multiverse theory.

[@02091992able]

Gol wants to rock! Get it since the voice actor for Gol was one of the band members of Twisted Sisters.

[@IBESMusic94]

Dee Snider, the singer. He's pretty underrated.

[@lemons-zt6mi]

The jak and daxter universe is in an infinite loop jak keeps defeating gol and Mia getting the rift rider going to haven city sending young jak back to the past then jak kills Errol and it repeats for what seems to be forever

[@VtnVivi]

Indeed

[@lemons-zt6mi]

The chances of jak to break the loop is possible but low and I thought about it but never really had any other theory’s about it but what if jak fails to beat kor or fails to reach gol and Mia doesn’t that mean that the loop is broken? And it no longer continues does that mean the future is destroyed forever

[@Sticky6Ft]

If Naughty Dog needs help fixing their story with a new Jak game, then IMO they should bring in diehard fans that know the story and lore front to back and maybe we'll finally get an answer to Ashlyn's stupid quip at the end of Jak 3. Its been too long, and Jak deserves the same remake and sequel that all the other PS mascots are getting lately

[@Nixus237]

I don’t think there’s a time loop other than Jak and Samos going back I think when they open the gate it let the metal head into the world from a different planet

[@Mitchell_Kirkbride69]

samos: daxter CLEAN MY PLACE WHILE UR THERE me:jerk ur not gonna live there anymore *hmph*

[@AMPGames]

I have to disagree about the multiverse theory. I feel like Jak is actually Mar in that world/universe. Kor didn't kill Jak because he knew he was Mar, and wanted him to find the precursor stone.

[@deralmighty8011]

Or maybe Kor is aware of the time loop and is thus creating his own bootstrap scenario. Think about it. In order for that gate to be opened so Kor can invade the past and do his thing, he needs Jak to send his younger self back to the past in Keira's machine.

[@VtnVivi]

Then again, when Jak was sent to the past, Kor was dead...Hmm.....

[@colinfortin6034]

@@VtnVivi Cheshire cat

[@rodrikofharlaw6848]

I love the idea of Jak going back into the past after 3 to after he opened the warp gate to help save Sandover and become Mar.

[@VongolaXZax]

Daxter: I'll say something really teary at the funeral like, HOW AM I GONNA GET CHANGE BACK NOW! Best Daxter quote in the precursor series😂

[@ganumon1984]

Jak 4 has to come out with new adventures and improved mechanics and story. I wish Jak & Daxter only focuses on the precursors, culture, etc.

[@VtnVivi]

That's what I loved about Jak 1!

[@TANKtheRipper]

Man I like all you videos but I heavily disagree with this one I know some people don't think Jak is THE Mar but I fell like ND 100% made that clear. To me its always been Damas fathered young Mar but lost him either during his banishing or at a later point in Spargus (I'm not sure when Damas gets banished if Jaks even born yet). But he gives his son the seal of Mar, Kor finds this kid and uses him to try and get into Mars tomb to get the precursor stone, teenage Jak ends up stopping Kor then sending his young self back to grow into him. Then the events of Jak 3 happen and Jak learns he's the son of Damas and he's really Mar. Then Mar would eventually meet Kor and the metal heads for the first time (for Kor anyways), and either a young Kor was too strong or an old Jak was too weak, but he can't beat him and has to retreat eventually using the time machine to go back and build Haven City and the big gun used against the nest to defend against the metal heads (possibly not using it then because he knew he needed to create the time loop for him to even be there), hid the stone in his tomb, then died (possibly fighting Kor). I believe the Kor that comes out of the portal in Sandover Village is from the future where Mar ran and was waiting for the portal to open again but when it did it took him to young Jak instead, and if there was a Jak 4 we would have seen this all play out but unfortunately the guys who made Jak & Daxter have left Naughty Dog and the new people in charge seem to have no interest in continuing the story.

[@FagnerLSantos]

This is a perfectly aligned timeline, it's my new headcanon from now on.

[@Jordan-ok4yb]

@@FagnerLSantos honestly a beautifully written storyline

[@noblesseoblige319]

But didn't the time gate get destroyed and took the keys to use it with young jak to the past? So how did an older jak use it again?

[@grandbalaxon8364]

Oh boi, VIVI, my man, It's so nice to see J&D related video in my KZbin feed once in a while. Love you.

[@VtnVivi]

No problem! Thanks for sharing your take on this :)

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

This does not necessarily have to be as you said. Original time line. NO travel, no going back, no loops. Metalheads (confirmed the be aliens who created trouble for advanced space weasels many times before) attack the planet, prompting the people to run away and hide. Eventually they fight hard enough to carve themselves a little territory, and built a potent wall (equipped with a force field) which was designed by the great warrior/leader/inventor, Mar. He did enough impressive feats to be crowned king for life. A few hundred years later (let's make it simple and say 200), Mar's descendant Damas names his son after the founder of the royal line, something kings all over the place do all the time. The kid has super wicked awesome powers, and a seer believes this kid, if properly trained, will be able to fight off Kor with all the Eco powers unlocked by touching a certain stone, given to Mar by his friends, advanced space weasels (in disguise of course). But Kor learns of the boy, and the seer's plan. The boy is now the biggest target in the universe. Properly trained, and having touched a green rock, perhaps invincible to Kor's army. But small and UNtrained, a future fatality. The seer uses all of her knowledge to locate a super secret time machine left by the advanced space weasels. Mar Junior is sent into the past to train in Eco usage, completely hidden from Kor, who would not know, and have no means to search in TIME (and lacking a time machine of his own). BUT Kor found out. As Jak is about to come bak, Kor uses the ring portal to crash the party and ruin everyone's plans. Kor fails to stop Jak, but messes the travel back part, leaving in Jak, Keira, and Samos separated (Daxter glued to Jak by plot rubber bands). Jak comes Bak to The Future, only to be made Dark (and handsome). Kor learns of that, delighted that the (old) boy won't be able to activate the green stone and get the Awesome Power. But the Dark Powers still made Jak invulnerable ENOUGH to survive Kor's attacks, and kill the big bug guy (with a gun though, old school style, no green stone powers). Kor is ded, but boy and hippie younger Samos must go back in time, or else the present would not happen/will change completely. But if I simplify, the ORIGINAL turn of events played out the right way. THEN Jak goes bak and does a loop-de-loop, changing the past. But the changed past still leads to THE SAME EVENTS, only slightly different. To make it extra simple to understand, the only thing that would change if time travel did NOT happen, if Jak would still be small and vulnerable to Kor, having his chances of growing up and becoming the hero being VERY low. The only reason time travel happens is to allow Jak to grow up without dying to Kor's army. You go back, change the past, but the changed past still leads to the same thing anyway, with small differences. Imagine you are a god, guiding people so that history happens as you devised. Metalheads invade. Mar finds Haven. Jak is born, grows up, and kills Kor. Those are the events that need to happen, one after the other. As long as those events play out, the timeline is as it needs to be, small changes notwithstanding. I will repeat, for clarity. You go back in time, change something without even planning to. That change still leads to the intended future no matter what. IT'S DESTINY, BITCH, TIME TRAVEL CANNOT CHANGE IT!

[@xroots2800]

So that being said, the baon had the right idea of feeding dark energy to jak. He must of known and knew more than he ever let off

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

@@xroots2800 He learned of Jak's channeling abilities from UNDERGROUND (get it?) rumors, and that Jak could handle the procedure. He was not 100% sure it would work though. This is in the game.

[@xroots2800]

@NotOrdinaryInGames since I posted the comment, I have been engaged in a rabbit hole of jak and daxter iceberg, having forgotten the plot.. the simple answer to it was that the dark makers told the baron, also the dark maker aka Kor was the one pulling the strings and indirectly Enrol picks up the plot in the 3rd series, also the count but he was driven by his individual pursuit to be a light being, not like enrol who was in pursuit to being a dark being. Jak being both of them in the end

[@xroots2800]

In the game, jak teases to Samos if he knew anything else he didn't tell him before.. leading to Samos already knowing this would happen.. him saying find yourself too... but what is weird is that pecker maybe knew something (him and daxter fighting) too. Also, damas makes weird father son comments and if you play the game as a paranoid, you notice how everyone around jak know he's mar or that he time travels..

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

@@xroots2800 In what reality was Kor a dark maker??

[@dariendark7263]

I'm glad they had Keira build the time machine in the future as oppose to repair. as reusing pieces of the "original time machine" would mean there are chunks of that thing eternally going through the loop, eventually breaking down and breaking the time loop as they either can't go forward or backwards in time. that's what pissed me off the most about oracle of ages in the Zelda series. Goron in the past wants a pot to give to his descendants, that's cool just get it from his descendant, which is a bootstrap paradox in and of itself, but that pot is essentially stuck in an infinite loop of wear and tear until it falls apart.

[@wtfcheesenips2098]

i like to believe that jak went back in time with the precursors at the end of jak 3 to see his younger self go through the rift gate at the start of jak 2 and protected Samos's hut in a gigantic war and saved the villagers and worked with the precursors and got help with the sculptor and his muse to create Haven City and that big gun for his younger self to use to destroy Kor lol

[@VongolaXZax]

Simplest theory. After the mess hit fan, and Without Jak, Daxter, Keria, and Samos to defend the village, having already going forward in time, the people of Sandover village did their best to repel the metalhead attack, but at last, there was one too many to take on, forcing them to leave their home behind. Having lost several in the battle, they moved into that village with the rocks where Jak and Daxter fought Golem,(hey, I forgot the name of the village, so do mind me.) After a few years pass, they muster up the strength, and resources, having develop new technologies, they go back and reclaim their home, which eventually became the slums. I believe they did rename their home, but Torn never mentioned the original name before it became the slums, due to the war.

[@VtnVivi]

Nice!

[@christophs.2386]

The village with the rocks which name you forgot is literally named Rock Village.

[@VongolaXZax]

@@christophs.2386 Lol, thanks, but it does make sense though, it can make for a good fortress and line of defense. Especially if you lived there long enough, you should know the every spot like the back of your hand, against the metal heads

[@Poldovico]

@@VongolaXZax Any attackers from Sandover's side would have had to either fly or go through fire canyon... Wait, did the villagers have to go through fire canyon, then?

[@VongolaXZax]

@@Poldovico not unless someone invented a machine that could drain the lava or something like a zoomer to get across

[@Bob-B-.]

With time travel plots, the writers typically don't tie up every loose end because it would take forever and they can't turn fiction into nonfiction. Instead of introducing multiverse theories just realize one may have reached a writing dead end. Just accept the line of things they baptized as canon with perhaps a few musings they considered.

[@SixxWolfZx]

I'm gonna need to watch this about 3 more times

[@samfimple4325]

The inhabitants probably built a shelter when the metal heads attacked. I imagine they survived for awhile, before the metal heads became too much. They tore the entire village apart and slaughtered everyone. With only some managing to go into hiding. With this in mind, it's possible that they tried rebuilding what was lost. The Baron and Dames, who were young at the time, built a new village that was quickly destroyed by the meatal heads. Cause all the locations like the beach, forest, and fire canyon, are all gone. Implying the metal heads destroyed everything in the village. As for the whole time traveling plot, I always though Kor wanted Jak, cause he was needed to open the precursor stone. But when he was pumped with dark echo, Kor had to go to younger Jak for his plan. Also, the whole Gol and Maia theory does sound cool and it's something I wished they used for Jak 3, instead of using Erol. Cause them being put in more dark echo, likely made them go more insane and likely want revenge on Jak and Daxter. Just a shame we'll never see them actually return.

[@VtnVivi]

Kor did need Jak to find the precursor stone, but he ultimately set eyes on young Jak. Surely he knew of young Jak's existence even before popping through the rift gate. Why did he say ''you can't hide from me''? That to me sounds like he was chasing after him. But hey you do bring up an interesting point.

[@samfimple4325]

@@VtnVivi I always took that line as that, even in the past, Jak couldn't avoid him forever. Kor did mention that he knew Onin took Jak to the past, so he'd get the skills to fight him. So he was likely aware of this and waiting for the right time for the rift gate to open. I think you have great points too. Cause Kor was power hungry for the stone. So him chasing Jak throughout time is plausible. And actually something that probably happened.

[@seanbarnard8598]

I love your channel! Thank you for reviving my childhood bro!

[@VtnVivi]

I'm happy you're enjoying the content :D Means a lot!!!

[@VongolaXZax]

3:45 you gotta admit, Keria does look cute in that concept art.

[@GwynC]

She's also like fourteeeeeeeeeeeeen

[@VongolaXZax]

@@GwynC Yeah man, I know that, but I'm not implying anything of that nature. Plus, don't I remember you? 🤔 Profile looks familiar.

[@ShockwaveFPSStudios]

judging by the Jak 3 model viewers in the secrets menu besides showing all the characters in all 3 Jak and Daxter games by misplacing the main characters and by the Sandover Village glitch from Jak 2 it’s safe to say that naughty dog would’ve brought back Sandover Village at some point in Jak 3 maybe to find Count Volmir as he wants to be a precursor

[@magicmanscott40k]

Bringing the village back would he cool.

[@stefanloncar6868]

Hey VIVI do you plan on making video about The Lurkers Cause one things has always going on my mind about The Lurkers Where do they come from before they worked for Gol and Maia, are there any female Lurkers because we don’t know how they reproduce

[@VtnVivi]

Hmm.....Gotta think.

[@ShockwaveFPSStudios]

The real question is why didn’t everyone at haven city had even heard of Jak seeing how Jak was in Sandover Village they would’ve know who Jak and Daxter is as they’re legends don’t believe me then why in the opening of Daxter shows old artifacts and a somewhat of a scroll that tells stories about Jak and Daxter

[@VtnVivi]

I take it no one knew about these two because the city was populated by people (descendants) who never lived on Sandover.

[@magicmanscott40k]

I love jak and dexter characters and I'm glad you made videos about them.

[@VtnVivi]

I appreciate it!

[@KichiMiangra]

I don't believe that "Naughty dog can't figure out how to get out of this time travel mess that they created and that's why they won't make any more Jak and Daxter games" joke is true. But I DO believe that this time travel plot is kinda a mess because I doubt ND was putting a lot of effort into the story telling when they were making it. I think they just needed a passable amount of story to make you want to shoot your way from point A to point B. Mind you despite my love of this franchise, a "Passable amount of story" was one of the most frustrating parts of playing for me the first time. I ALSO believe the reason we haven't and might not get another Jak and Daxter game is just because... Naughty Dog just doesn't want to make them anymore. What ND said about the "Jak 4" concept art was something like "We wanted to make a new game but to make the game we wanted would be so different from what the fans were familiar with would it really be Jak and Daxter?" I like to think that also includes the Jak 4 Concept art being more realistic. Is this guy really Jak? Is this how Jak and Daxter are SUPPOSED to look? No, it's supposed to be cartoony! With a wild wonky Scifi/Fantasy setting! But ND doesn't want to do Cartoony wonky Sci/fantasy anymore. They want to do realistic graphics and stories and settings grounded in reality. But.... then how do they do Jak games? That's just it. They don't. Because what a Jak game IS just ISN'T what they want to do anymore. So no more Jak and Daxter. Period. They look at Jak and Daxter as a good time with a passable end(?) but now it's over, like hanging out with your friends in middle school and trying to start a band even though none of you have ever picked up an instrument in your lives. But now your in highschool, or college, or your an adult in the work force and middle school is over. The band dream is over. But at the same time, you don't want to say that you'll never pick up that guitar again, invite your friends over, and jam like it's 2004 all over again. They don't want to say "Never", but they have a job and bills and just don't really like the guitar and prefer the drums now. It's clearly not a money thing considering that this era of people who are very nostalgia driven would be the perfect time to make a new or rebooted/reimagined Jak and Daxter. It's about not wanting to. Or maybe not accidentally screw up what they already have. I may be remembering wrong but I read and article sometime around the Jak 4 concept art surfacing that ND had a team set up to do Jak 4 while the other team did uncharted games, but team Jak were like Team Jak: " :I... we wanted to do uncharted..." ND: "We have enough people on Uncharted, you do Jak 4." Team Jak: " :I..... But that's the OLD IP... we wanna do the shiny NEW IP..." ND: "Well tough noogies you do Jak 4." Team Jak: ".......... But we don't wanna do that one....." ND: "THEN WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO?!" Team Jak: ND: "..... Shit that's good..." Team tLoU: "Yup."

[@VtnVivi]

What you said is basically the most realistic scenario.

[@johnlawful2272]

Didn't Andy Gavin leave naughty dog

[@Masami_Tanaka]

Minus the time loop mess,I feel like everything else you mentioned isn't talked about enough. Gol And Mia, kiera wanting to become a sage, the villagers in sand over, or even Mar. This series really deserves more lore, its only too bad we'll never get that. oh well...... if we ever do get another jak & daxter game, I'd like it to wrap up the mysterious lore discussed here ( except the time travel stuff, its best to just leave it as it is since we can't really make much sense of it anyways but only speculate). Maybe one day we'll get another game.........

[@VtnVivi]

Not to mention Jak's ''Uncle''...

[@Masami_Tanaka]

@@VtnVivi i forgot all about that uncle guy!

[@raven3067]

They all must've fought for awhile but then fled the sandover village and carried out the rest of their lives wherever they all hid and took shelter. I don't want to believe that they were all killed by the metal heads. That would just be too sad that everyone was in danger and Jak and Daxter couldn't save them.

[@snupietherat6814]

I personally like to think that jak at age 50 or so, goes back in time with a team of experts to build haven city alongside his uncle

[@Lorronzo]

What's more disturbing is that if Samos knew what would happen when the rift opened, why weren't the other sages warned?

[@joaoafonso4723]

What if kor didn't remember jack because it's been along time?

[@VtnVivi]

Long time?

[@joaoafonso4723]

@@VtnVivi From the time he appeared in the prologue to the future events in jak 2 and during all that time the kor forgot about jak? Idk just an idea but anyway keep up the awesome job on this channel :)

[@SoraLombaxNetwork]

I gotta say, I love that I found someone else who went with a KH and RaC crossover being awesome! I personally grew up with Ratchet, Clank, and Sora as my role models as a kid, and of course years ago when I started my youtube channel, that was the original idea for what my content was based around or represented by ^^ Glad to have found you, my friend!

[@VtnVivi]

Your comment means so much :D

[@SoraLombaxNetwork]

Well im glad to have made ya happy with that! Friends?

[@VtnVivi]

@@SoraLombaxNetwork Why not :p

[@SoraLombaxNetwork]

Yuss! ^^

[@SoraLombaxNetwork]

Eyy keyblade masters unite!

[@ZenkuTheories]

What if Kor is from a different point in time? Possibly the past. Remember the Precursors hinted at Jak travelling through time again in Jak 3. What if Jak met with the past Kor thus causing the events of Jak 2 to happen. Assuming that Jak met Kor while he still looked the same as he did in Jak 3, that would explain why Kor could recognize Jak even though he was younger.

[@VtnVivi]

If Kor had met past Jak, then he would've remembered that no? Why didn't he decide to kill him when he met him in Jak 2?

[@Lancelot1995]

What’s most perplexing to me is that Keira may in fact be the inventor behind all Zoomers. She made just one in the past in The Precursor Legacy, and when you visit Samos’ Hut in Dead Town in Jak 2 it’s GONE. And as far as I can recall any time you visit Samos’ Hut in The Precursor Legacy, she’s right there in the Hut as well, tinkering with that very Zoomer that is now missing in Jak 2s Samos’ Hut. Also is the Water Pump area in Jak 2 supposed to be the future water village area from The Precursor Legacy? The vault-like rooms leading to the different areas in Jak 2 really resemble some counterparts from The Precursor Legacy to me.

[@bawat]

I don't get how Kor flies through the time portal as Jak enters, but also exists in Haven City at the time Jak arrives.

[@michaeljude2105]

And I'm unsure what happened to the people of Sandover. And what ot the people of Rock Village, and those two miners Gordie and Wilber from Volcanic Crater?

[@stupidmatua]

I had an interesting thought when you brought up the multiverse, what if Jak 4 is in another universe where that iteration of Jak is the actual Mar, and that's where Kor came from (like you suggested)? I guess 4 could detail the events of that whole conflict + serve as a reboot/prequel that leads into the OG trilogy and explain how Kor hopped universes. Seems like the best way to honor the old games and make the new one into whatever Naughty Dog would want it to be

[@BrennySpain]

And just something else I really wanna be honest with you too about, dr neo cortex is just hands down of my favourite video game villains ever alongside Xehanort and many of his different incarnations in the kh series. Like seriously I love how determined cortex is to take out crash bandicoot in each other main games no matter what. That seriously shows determination to his character would you say? Especially how in mind over mutant he just complained about how crash and Aku Aku should just get hobbies and how it was his turn to win after being defeated. You get what I mean at all? Despite the fact MoM wasn’t that great. I still thought it was okay.

[@VtnVivi]

Cortex is a fun character :)

[@robertmanzella9875]

fisherman: Loses weight Becomes an exotic dancer Becomes a criminal by smuggling fish. Sculpter: Marries his pet only to find out its actually genie Bird lady: Becomes one with birds

[@BrennySpain]

Also if I’m bring really honest too, this is a list of all the remaining characters who I still think could come to crash team racing nitro fueled eventually. Tell me what you think okay? No particular order. Gigantix Big emperor velo Viscount (boom bang) Willie wumpa cheeks Evil twins Madame Amberley Evil crash Rusty the walrus Farmer Ernest Lab assistants And you’ve probably noticed at this point too that almost all these characters are from twinsanity too. It’s still got the biggest missing amount of characters. Do you agree as well?

[@VtnVivi]

Whatever Beenox works with, I ain't complaining :)

[@BrennySpain]

VTNVIVI fair enough then. At this point they don’t need to prove anything but they can get every single character in the game they I’ll be rdskky happy! :-)

[@bobafett4265]

The Hog from Crash 1. Possibly making Fake Coco a thing. Maybe for a April Fools Grand Prix That heavily stars Fake Crash and shows what his world looks like.

[@bobafett4265]

Oh yeah I forgot one, Monster Brio. If Koala Kong can get in, he can. :)

[@BrennySpain]

Boba Fett oh yeah cause I’m king of thinking they could introduce more baby characters like baby cortex and baby tropy. Since they weirdly enough weren’t in the back in time one. You get what I mean?

[@Zalied]

ok but is anyone going to mention how insane those villager stories were in that book

[@BrennySpain]

I honestly can’t stand the daxter concept for the original “jak 4.” It’s honestly just weird and creepy I think!

[@alengorkgamer]

Really? I havent see it how is?

[@BrennySpain]

Alengork Gamer you can probably find it somewhere on the internet I guess.

[@VtnVivi]

I don't like it.

[@alengorkgamer]

@@VtnVivi oh no, I saw it, how horrible

[@productivitywizard6406]

Yeah, he looked like a realistic Meowth. Nothing like a weasel or otter, but I don’t think his original design looks much like one either. He looked like a slim kangaroo to me.

[@TheComicCorvette]

I always wanted to play a jak game that took place in the past, but right after they went through the gate. Meaning Jak 4 would begin in Haven city in the future, and for some reason jak would travel back in the past to build Haven city as Mar. I think it would really give us some light on what happened to the old world and how Haven city came to be, and what happened to the rest of the world as well. During my first couple play throughs of jak 2 and 3, I was more interested in what happened to the old world and anything that was going on in the story of jak 2 and 3, not saying they were bad, just saying the world in jak 1 is so amazing, that the least I wanted to know was exactly what happened. One night I stayed up late playing jak 2. That night I had a dream: my dream took place in rock village during right as jak and the gang opened the rift. It mostly followed the perspective of the warrior in Rock Village (the one that failed to defeat klaww on the mountain pass). In my dream all of the citizens of Rock village were hiding out in the Lost Precursor city under the water. Out the window, metalheads pounded on the glass windows. I don't remember too much else, other than the warrior escaped. The fact I remember this at all is crazy enough. Maybe Jak 4 shouldn't feature jak and daxter at all, but rather have a spin off game told through the perspective of the villagers, the sages, or even the warrior. I just think this would be awesome because I'm not exactly content with what the jak games presented us with story wise. There are simply not enough pieces to put the puzzle together. All we know is that Sandover Village was where dead town is in Jak 2 and 3. That's about it. I also think ND should have left more remnants of the old world, beside Samos's hut, there is no evidence they are the same place. It would have helped us at least figure out where everything was. Even if they didn't directly bring this up in story, just something as simple as the blue sage hut in the sand, or that that weird structure over the Precursor Basin. I actually think ND had this whole thing planned out, the Precursor Oracles in jak 1 bring it up. "Behold the Dark Light, for it has Twisted the Fate of One of You. Bring to me 120 Precursor Orbs for each power cell I contain" - Oracle at Rock Village. Maybe it's referencing what will happen to Jak. You even mentioned how dark echo could possibly go good, such as preserve Mia's form and turn Daxter into a Precursor. Hense the term, Dark Light. I'm new here, have you done a video on the Precursor Oracles? I thought the mystery of the Precursors were interesting in the first game, but the next 2 complete killed any interest. I don't think they should have told us what the precursors were as the mystery made them more interesting, they should have focused on what happened between the world and the metal heads. I think in Jak 2, when they discovered Samos's hut, Jak should be more interested in this and slowly discover more and more information regarding the battle that took place as the story progresses, then by the end of the game, both Jak and us know what happened. This would also give Jak a better reason for staying in Haven City at the end of Jak 2. I am the only one that got mad when that happened? This is must my opinion, none of which I have much evidence for. I just wanted to throw some more cards on the table. I'm sorry for this being long, I've just been doing so much thinking on Jak and Daxter, particularly the old world, and wanted to write this somewhere. I couldn't have found your video at a better time.

[@VtnVivi]

I enjoyed reading this!!!!

[@TheComicCorvette]

@@VtnVivi Thanks. I just thought this was a good place to speak my thoughts. Thanks for reading. You're awesome.

[@eessppeenn001]

I think there was a timeline where Jak grew up in the future. Almost defeating Kor. But Kor changed strategy and went back in time to kill Jak at a young age. Jak followed Kor through the rift gate. Now, there being 2 Kors, and 2 Jaks, one time traveled, one not. Jak manages to rescue his younger self and kill the time traveled Kor. The still alive Kor, decides to go back in time yet again. Jak realizes that things are dangerous, and sends his young self back in time. Telling his young self to come bs to the future to save himself. This starts a sycle of Jak sending his younger self back in time, and then returning to the future to save himself. After this sycle of going back and forth in time has repeated enough time. The timeline manage to find a stable sycle where the start and end overlap almost identically. You would no longer be able to tell the previous loop from the next. There was a start... But the repeating of looping has overridden and made it a forgotten thing.

[@sir.jinzu9426]

I kinda made an observation right before Jak punched the button to launch the Rift Rider,it seemed like Kor was about to charge up the laser attack thing he does in his boss battle. Maybe he(Kor) intended to kill Jak right then and there.

[@cameronpearce5943]

They should introduce a Dark Maker as a villain in Jak IV who calls Jak mar on the space time continuum

[@weshansen7892]

Also we don't know how long kor had been alive. He contacted them through the portal which is a time machine. So he was probably in the time where then ended up.

[@VtnVivi]

What about the Hora-quan? Was Kor the only leader?

[@yourviewyouropinion9136]

There is something that still confuses me about jak 2 ending, since kor knew that in order for young jak to go back to the past was through that rift gate, wouldnt that mean that kor knew he was going to be defeated so that young jak could be hidden in the past?

[@lorcostridge2811]

Could be. Or maybe he didn’t know it was that gate specifically. When Kor appears at the start of Jak II he says “finally, the last gate has been opened” implying that there are several. Then, at the end, when Kor says “Mar hid his trail through time” it kinda gives the impression that, not only are there several gates, but Kor has been searching and hunting through them for Jak and the precursor egg.

[@Zeldatheoristb211]

The Kor that we see enter the Rift Gate is a *different one* from the one we encounter at the very end. That Kor that peaked through the Rift Gate was possibly either a "younger Kor" or a different Kor. My guess it's a Kor from a different timeline or the *original Timeline.* That Kor was looking for younger Jak, while the Kor we see in Haven City already knows where Young Jak is and is carefully planning to use him to open the Tomb of Mar to get the Precursor Stone and channel Jak for his eco abilities. At the very end of Jak II, Kor couldn't activate the Rift Gate without the Precursor Stone unlocked. But in the beginning, Kor already activated the Rift Gate and was looking for Young Jak in my personal observation, to kill him since he knows Young Jak will become the Mar of the Future.... or *his Future.* I believe Mar defeated Kor's army of Metal Heads but never fought Kor, and Mar probably disappeared through the Rift Gate and Kor was looking for him specifically *ie* Jak. TLDR: There are 2 timelines, the original one, and the one we experience as Jak. Mar from legends is Jak from another Timeline ie the original Timeline. Kind of like *Future Trunks* and *Trunks* from DBZ. Jak would be Trunks, while *Mar* would be *Future Trunks.* When we send Young Jak through the Rift Gate? We are creating an effective Time Loop to which Young Jak will live the events that Older Jak already completed. So the original timeline involves Mar's dealings with creating himself in another Timeline to be the hero, Jak. In the original Timeline, Young Mar doesn't grow up to be Jak, but in the changed timeline, he does grow up to be Jak.

[@smokedbyboo_ttv6013]

A possible theory I’ve had is maybe “the warrior” is mar maybe that whole acting scared thing was an act maybe he wanted jak to fight. I don’t have much to back this up other than the fact that he resembles jak and the statue of mar

[@saminator3563]

Great vid. I think Kor needed Jak to open the egg. Once Kor found him was after he had dark eco injections and was unable to open the egg then. He needed to work with Jak to find his younger self.

[@animal245533]

I do wish they had this more planned in the first one and left easter eggs for the sequel.

[@Sipu97]

I think all the character stories, excluding Gol and Maia because I think that's very plausible, are too ridiculous to have happened. Gol and Maia returning would be an amazing game. Also, I think that anyone could become a sage if they have the connection to eco. I don't know how they would train, though.

[@VtnVivi]

Gol and Maia returning would be the easiest plot at this point yeah!

[@kevinmoore2474]

Okay I'm 7 months late but theory time. The Kor we see in the rift at the start is Kor. He wants pure jak to open the precursor stone. And through consuming dark eco he can see through time. He saw his defeat at the hands of older jak so he tries to use the rift gate to get jak from Jak 1. (And thus the events of Daxter as he uses his advisor to try and change the future but dude to the loop being perfect and unbreakable, he fails. Jak 1 world is protected by the sages until their time comes. The denizens of sandover, rock village and volcanic crater start to build a super village, (the base of what will become Haven city) thus they call it the Safe Haven.. Time passes and eventually Jak (Jak 3) goes through the veins of time to ignite the fire that starts his legacy. He returns to his time, Builds safe haven into Haven City. Builds the gun at the nest.. he is tempted to use it as he wants to save his time. But can't knowing this would ruin the order of events. He knows for now the people are safe in the city so he stays to build up the palace and etc. Jak we see at the end of 3 staying with everyone is a clone exact memories everything. Hence how he appears behind Daxter and Tess. Old jak stays in Haven rules over it..and as weird as it sounds. He is his own...(however many great) grandfather based on the state of decay the hut is in I'd say at most it's 200 years from Jak leaving to the future to the actual future. Jak has a will requesting two of his future descendants be named Damos and Mar. Damos would be born I'd say around 40 to 50 years before the events of Jak 2 in the future. He becomes the new ruler, Becomes friends with young praxis, Mar is born Praxis goes "Benedict Arnold" and betrays damos and has him banished then hires vegar to find his son. So that's how that story goes. Why does Jak go by Mar? When he returns to the past, no one recognizes him and calls him Mar acting like he was was an astral being. Hence the name Mar and it's origin. I also believe the original metalnheads that brought the precursors are locked away in the silos. I apologize for this being all over the place but it's the best I got

[@VtnVivi]

Interesting thought!

[@weshansen7892]

Glad you've been making Jak content. I've been rebuilding the entirety of Jak and Daxter the precursor legacy in Minecraft so it's nice to hear some Jak stuff. Could you make a video on info from the Bible that you shared info of on twitter?

[@VtnVivi]

If I feel like the Bible has enough juicy content, I might consider it :)

[@joebradshaw6082]

You should make a video of your minecraft map it sounds great

[@mist12345678910]

They all got mangled and got horribly devoured like the humans from the reddick movie: Pitch black

[@martinbarrettgamer4333]

but for Jak4 since we going with time travel and Mar him self it's going to be tricky story to pull but if they ever make a Jak4 game i don't think time travel and mar should be the main focused in the game but maybe the return of gol and mala and keira wanted to become a sage will be a fitting story maybe near the middle of the game the precursor can tell jak that he's not mar but name after mar and than it can cut off all the question's that Jak3 had.

[@VtnVivi]

I'd love for them to scrap time travel altogether, it can create a mess. I'd love for Gol and Maia to return for sure :)

[@banananut6251]

What if the metals heads were created when the precursor robot fell into the dark eco silo in the first game. The siblings were transformed and combined with the precursor metal and were trapped in the silo where more metal heads were created and reproduced until they broke out in the future then the the events of jak 2 happens . it makes a little sense because when you kill a metal head it drops dark eco and metal. In addition the breakout created the metal head nest witch could possibly match up north of dead town or not. This theory can not be debunked because Kor does not specifically remember jak(or maybe he does) Gol and Maia we’re still destroyed or they were actually reborn. This also explains samos’s foreshadowing at the end of the first game

[@VtnVivi]

Remember that Kor wanted dark eco, dark eco existed for eons. The hora-quan was a war from eons ago, so the metal heads already existed somewhere, just not in Sandover until the rift agte opened.

[@Luweegee]

I think Kor was looking for Jak because he hadn't been tainted by dark eco yet. He must of been weighing his options on ways he could get the stone activated, perhaps there was a timeline where everyone died? Maybe Onin informed Samos that the end was inevitable and he needed to take young jak to the past or maybe someone else got young samos the life seed and with that he learned what course of action he needed to take. Kor knowing he lost young Jak learned he would be back at some point. I have spent the past hour trying to figure out how this paradox could be created in the first place, it just doesn't make sense how a paradox could create itself. I think the answer has to be SOMEONE knew that creating two jaks in the same timeline would lead to Kor's end. The only way for them to win and repeal the universe's ancient evils would be to manipulate time itself with the assistance of the Precursors.

[@VtnVivi]

Definitely a headscratcher!

[@SkyZigu]

O_o !! huge respect for this video ma man!

[@DaxterSnickers]

I think that at the end of Jak3 Jak goes with the precursors and becomes Mar in the future past.

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

Also, with time travel, complete reversal of a character's personality is not possible. Even if you live for 300 years, you won't certainly gain personality traits you never had. Jak never invented anything, nor did he lead a single soul even once. THE Mar was a leader and inventor, Jak was never either of those things. EVERYONE forgets that.

[@psychedoutcasts]

But everyone did follow Jak. He could easily be a reincarnation of The Mar. or if Time Travel is wonky, he could easily have have Keira create everything for him.

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

@@psychedoutcasts Still does not fix the personality problem. Jak does not have the architect, inventor, and leadership qualities. Pretty much none. He is almost 20 in 3. Without ignoring how people work, this cannot be done. Jak completely changing his personality SOMEHOW is fanfiction level writing.

[@Poldovico]

@@NotOrdinaryInGames It may also be a case of Precursors doing the heavy lifting, with Jak simply telling them what he already knows they did in the future. That would make everything "Jak's idea" from the perspective of the Haven City people, without needing Jak to actually come up with anything. And the designs would appear to be genius-level because it's actually Precursor tech.

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

@@Poldovico Why use Jak, and jump through countless hoops, when you can have someone already good at inventing and leadership to do the leadership and inventing?

[@Poldovico]

@@NotOrdinaryInGames because like Destiny and things. But also that's what I was saying, the Precursors are doing the thing, Jak is just telling them what he knows "Mar" did from being in the future and seeing it. It's also quite possible that Mar's achievements were greatly exaggerated through legend, and the reality is more like an ensemble of different people, probably gravitating around Jak as a warrior and hero rather than much of a leader.

[@ricardocalix8237]

But isn’t it explained that Kor could not use his powers inside the city because of the defenses?

[@VtnVivi]

Yep! Even so, he could've used a different method to killing Jak if that's what you're referring to.

[@ricardocalix8237]

VTNVIVI He could’ve, but it seems he wanted Jak to find the stone first and then kill him. So many years later and this game is still worth talking about

[@petermcpherson5034]

after Jak 3 when Jak meets the precursors they could of handed him a time travel artifact so he could travel back and fourth through time building haven city this is how Jak is the Mar possibly? and he could of met a young Damos and his mother

[@ultravioletmusic311]

y'know, if you never complete the 100% ending in tpl technically either #1: the whole universe implodes due to the time loop never happening #2: the metalheads never invade and jak and daxter never have to worry about anything ever again

[@AymanWehbi]

Ive always thought the writers of Jak 2 were high af. Love the series regardless. Great content btw

[@VtnVivi]

Hehehe! Thank you for the support!

[@creative-name5279]

Here are my thoughts. I don't think the initial metal head invasion was successful because I believe Dead Town is Sandover Village. The thing about Dead Town, however, is that it was a fully urbanized city with multistory structures. The only building that had the traditional architecture of Sandover Village was Samos' hut. Meaning that when Samos left through the rift gate, somebody else might have taken over the role of green sage. Dead Town would have needed time to urbanize as much as it did, leading me to suspect the first metal head attack was a failure (probably because Kor wasn't leading them). Now, on to a little more information about Samos and the other sages. First of all, I don't think Keira is Samos' biological daughter, as you don't see a young Keira with a young Jak in Jak 2, you only see Jak and his dog. Therefore, either young Samos fathered Keira after the events of Jak 2, making Keira a couple years younger than Jak, or Keira was adopted by Samos. Same with Daxter. Daxter wasn't with young Jak in Jak 2. I think both Keira and Daxter were natives of Sandover Village that somehow got entangled with Samos and Jak. I also believe that there are possibly other Dead Town sites where Rock Village and Volcanic Crater used to be, as it wouldn't make sense geographically for all of the denizens of the past to go to Sandover Village and form old Haven City before the Baron pulled everyone back during the metal head attacks and created new Haven City. I believe Kras City from Jak X might be where the inhabitants of Rock Village went after the metal head attacks. As far as the other sages are concerned, I think they definitely have descendants somewhere in the future. But because of the modern uses of eco, the wisdom of sages was no longer needed and they faded into obscurity. Also, I don't think Samos was THE green sage of Sandover Village because he was born in Haven City in the future, hence why he is so young. I think when young Samos went back in time to Sandover Village, he somehow replaced the REAL green sage from that time period.

[@VtnVivi]

Very nice read!!!!

[@marcoronzani7197]

Ehm...the loop exists in time, and you don’t know the beginning, the real one, due to you living the loop...however at some point something happened, that we don’t know, and started looping around! For instance, this is random stuff, maybe Mar wasn’t ded and sent himself jak and Samos in the past, that started their life in sandover and started the loop, however is normal due to the events we know, to not know that!

[@Mohammadkwt]

Man...if Damas knews what his son will become

[@youngfox2186]

Maybe he already named him after his ancestor in that expectation.