Why you SHOULDN'T do STREET PHOTOGRAPHY

PATREON: / jamiewindsor
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Why you SHOULDN’T do STREET PHOTOGRAPHY. // Are you a street shooter? Street photography is important. But I think there are some times when you shouldn’t do street photography. Do you agree? Disagree? Let me know in the comments.
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[@jamiewindsor]

*I want to clear one point up. When I say:* *_“So this leaves me wondering: Can you accurately represent a culture you are not part of? How much insight can you really offer? I don’t have a clear answer to this.”_* *I mean this literally. This is a genuine question that I don't have a clear answer to, not a didactic statement of morality.*

[@nubbinthemonkey]

Where did the premise that anyone should and/or it's even possible to portray a culture 'accurately' come from? Culture is an aggregate of an entire population's way of life. The work you create is only ever going to be a subjective piece of that aggregate. Even if your viewpoint isn't holistically representative, should you not be allowed to express it? And why make the author's identity so central to your appraisal of the work? Can a straight actor accurately portray a gay character or vice versa? Surely the work should be appreciated through your own lens. I love Michael Jackson's music, I thought the Cosby show was hilarious when I watched it as a kid, and Hitler's landscape paintings are good - not great, but pretty good.

[@jamiewindsor]

@@nubbinthemonkey The idea that the way you see and understand something is profoundly different if you have actually experienced and lived it rather than just seen it. It's where the whole concept of privilege comes from in sociology. Michael Jackson's music is not related to pedophilia. But say - hypothetically speaking - that Jackson wrote a song about the inner feelings and desires of a 30-year-old male pedophile in the late 1980s. In that case, his lyrics may come from a substantially different place than if someone like Taylor Swift wrote a song like that today. This is a weird conversation.

[@musiclovespeace1651]

Great topic and such wise words! Thank you for sharing this video and your thoughts!!

[@jody8526937]

I had this discussion recently with a prominent Hollywood filmmaker. He basically laughed at the idea of honest cultural representation. People's reflection and viewers perceptions are to be manipulated to fit the world of the creator was his belief. Realistic cultural representation meant nothing to him. But that is why he has found great success in Hollywood. You can't represent something you dont understand which is another word. Misappropriation.

[@chaplani]

What about Koudelka's gypsies?

[@DoubleM55]

During my student days, I used to go out a lot and one time I was waiting for a tram, and there was a homeless man sitting. I had few beers that night and had 2 cans of beer in my backpack. I offered one beer to the guy, he was very happy I guess that anyone would talk to him, let alone give him a drink. Ususally people avoid him. I asked him about his story, and I was shocked. He had a P.H.D. in physics and used to be a professor on my university. (I later checked his claims and it's true). At first I wasn't buying it and asked him a feq questions I know from theoretical physics, and sure enough he knew it all in details. So I asked him, but what happened? Well his wife died from some condition and year after that he lost both of his kids in a car accident. He decided to give up on life. I cried all the way to my apartment and still get emotional when I remember.

[@wisemonkey9858]

That is so touching. You should try to find him & help him! Treat him too food & clothes. Offer to help him “get himself together” find a job too.

[@DoubleM55]

@@wisemonkey9858 Yeah, I which I had done more for him then. I don't even know if he's alive anymore :(

[@mauiwowie9736]

Wow, what a comment man. May God keep blessing your soul, comments like these make me want to treat everyone better. 👏🏽

[@rishikapaul4740]

Sometimes, life is unfair to us. Please take care of that gentleman and hope both of you are well.

[@mngqushu]

Damn man...damn.

[@mortimersnerd8044]

It's so rare to find photography videos that are actually about photography. Glad I discovered your chanel.

[@ramonponesky3605]

mortimer snerd Chanel lul, all gucci

[@MaxTheSpycar]

Ive been binge watching all of his videos!

[@romariop6016]

mortimer snerd right im always giving gear head videos and never the 101 about photography

[@melonproductions1471]

@Jackal Prints All of them go... BUY MY LUTS THEY WILL MAKE YOUR FOOTAGE GODLIKE

[@robbiemify]

Why it is nothing but an egotists diatribe with no validity !!!

[@alanewart3444]

As primarily a street and documentary photographer I was intrigued by the title you ascribed this video. I expected to disagree with just about everything. Instead, I found a well-presented argument, one that I totally agree with. Street photography is one of the most endlessly fascinating genres of photography. It's important as a social record and for its indexicality of the urban environment. I too have struggled with the ethics of certain street shots and came to the conclusion that the acid test is asking myself whether or not the image would be exploitative of the subject. If the answer is "yes" or "potentially yes" then just move on. There is always something interesting around the corner.

[@captainkesh]

yeh it was very click baity but hes a smart guy

[@universalfraeser]

I absolutely agree here with you

[@reasonsvoice8554]

Been watching a few videos quite like this guy he seems pretty real like he's actually talking to you rather than just spouting written lines to a camera. Subscribed

[@aztekamx87]

Same here , I thought this guy was nuts

[@ikalliste]

Cette question "acid test" ne me préoccupe pas. Personne ne conteste l'usage que les grands noms de la photographie sociale on fait de leurs droits.

[@lohne87]

Came to become a better photographer - left as a better person.. Love your philosophy, keep up the good work!

[@lycosa2000]

I was going to write something close to your comment, but I think you said it best. We live in a world where becoming ‘viral’ is a virus. Exploitative photos/videos are the norm. Brilliant words of wisdom that we might take a moment to empathize with a subject.

[@kevingumfory]

Well said

[@dwayne_dibley]

Or did you leave as a decidedly worse person with a reason to ignore the homeless and others who are disadvantaged?

[@ficklefox2171]

Very well said. Just sitting here slouching, basking in the weight of what he was saying. Unfortunate I am just starting on my photography venture and I do you plan to incorporate street photography as one of my primary methods... But I believe I will do so from a fairly balanced and frankly, tolerable, position.

[@Peter_Pan.]

Love this comment

[@standard_gauge]

Very old joke. Q What did you give the starving old lady in the park? A Oh f8 at 125th

[@brenoobr]

ouch...

[@notme1998]

With some portra 400

[@LexTNeville]

@Gryff Longprong haha

[@AlbertoDsign]

I don't get it....(I'm not a native speaker)

[@dannyboy_jenkins5954]

@@AlbertoDsign same

[@mikepowers171]

This is what I love about your videos. Not just about gear or locations, you focus on being a good human being as well. Thank you for that.

[@legvalmont]

Same here. I feel I learn so much more when there's a new Jamie video. Thank you, Jamie.

[@corneliusdobeneck4081]

@deepthroat2 At least you tired.

[@joshuamejia2496]

love this comment so much

[@transplantman2287]

“Just because something is legal doesn’t mean it’s ethical” is a great line, and I appreciate you confronting this so bluntly. I’ve seen street photography videos like “How to secretly photograph people and what’s legal in your country in case anyone challenges you” and it always rubs me the wrong way.

[@gerryyaum]

treat people with respect, photograph them with respect..and make GREAT MEANINGFUL IMAGES....the rest? who cares

[@transplantman2287]

​@@gerryyaum​ Not everyone is comfortable with being photographed, and their reasons are valid. For example, people who are hiding from domestic abusers. We can't know who is comfortable being photographed and who isn't by looking. In my book, treating people with respect means not secretly photographing them and profiting off their image without their consent.

[@gerryyaum]

@@transplantman2287 Never said anything about SECRET photos. But if you want secret check out one of the greatest photos ever made, a street SECRET shot made by the great Paul Strand. He gave the subject immortality. He also helped educate the world. Do you think any photo you will make in your lifetime will do the same? Will any of your photos be around in 200 years? As to domestic abusers, you're overthinking. What percentage of the world of domestic abuse victims do you capture in your pictures? Out of that percentage what percentage are then seen by the abusers? Out of that percent how many abusers then can locate and find the victim based on a photograph? Your hypothetical is very very hypothetical. In my opinion you are overthinking, you're rationalizing why not to make photos Always a bad thing for a photographer to do. Check out the great Paul Strand and learn form his example... time.com/104072/paul-strand-retrospective/

[@transplantman2287]

@@gerryyaum If you're taking photos of a subject and they don't know about it, then yes, that means the photo is a secret from them. Probably none of my photos will be around in 200 years. I'm not interested in being legendary, memorable, infamous, etc. I take photos to explore my own point of view, and communicate what I'm feeling or how I think. For me, the risk of accidentally outing ANY domestic abuse victim to someone who might hurt them means that as long as the percentage is not zero, it's not worth the risk. You have photos on your website of Thai sex workers, and you talk about the high turnover in the brothels. Surely you know about how much harm people can do to each other? I don't want to accidentally cause harm to someone by taking a photo without their consent, so I try not to. I can't control someone else's actions, but I can control mine, and I choose not to put my own desire for a photo above other people's right to consent to being photographed. That's all. I make choices based on my values. You can do the same. You don't have to do the same thing I do. I explained my reasons for my choices.

[@gerryyaum]

@@transplantman2287 It's not about YOU being legendary it is about MAKING LEGENDARY PHOTOGRAPHS....making IMPORTANT PHOTOGRAPHS...making PHOTOGRAPHS THAT MATTER, that is it, that should be the goal of any photog. Plain and simple, the goal is to make important, photographs that matter. You're rationalizing yourself out of that opportunity. Do not do this, do not do that, should we do this?, should we do that? You have failed before you have started. Stop overthinking and reach for the stars, make great images.

[@damarahbryant3807]

I completely agree with this, in many of my photography classes students have chosen to take pictures of homeless people multiple times. But most of the time it was only to get emotional pictures, it bothered me.

[@nigelbaldwin752]

well said, also if someone is mentally distressed it may be legal but can increase the persons sense of vulnerability , respect individuals and treat as you would like to be treated but that is difficult for some people who have not felt true despair and vulnerability.

[@fkatwigsisthequeenofenglan4748]

someone said to me don't take photos of homeless people without their permission but if you do always make sure to have them standing to make them feel empowered and always pay them or give them food afterwarda

[@robertbutts9835]

The homeless are the victims which many photographers feel have no voice or like a stray cat or dog ... And feel the need to victimize them with statements like "someone's son" or "it's sad but needs to be told" . It's very easy to shoot something you feel so has no meaning or value .

[@burritobrosvideos8060]

There's nothing wrong with taking pictures of the homeless. Its very sad and people forget they are there. People hate having to confront what they want to ignore

[@damarahbryant3807]

@@burritobrosvideos8060 We're not talking about it in that regard, its in regards to their dignity. If you just take pictures of them from a distance you are telling their story not them. You never know what that person's life is like, people only get to bank off their image being sad and dismal. At least talk and get to know them first and then ask if they want their photo taken, that way you can get a more accurate piece.

[@Matttchew5]

"It's legal therefore, I am exempt from all responsibility for my actions." That goes for so many different things other than photography, such as driving a car. We know what happens when people get behind the wheel. Other people's decisions become a nuisance and often the situation escalates towards undesirable circumstances.

[@danlightened]

That's why I have stopped street photography (although it's one of my favorite genre). I used to 6-7 years ago but DSLR wasn't so mainstream in India and people would assume I'm from the press and kinda freeze whatever they are doing. And sometimes the exact opposite would happen and they start posing; which entirely defeated the purpose of catching people doing what are they are doing in their natural habitat. (Pardon me for sounding like a Nat Geo narrator.) I try to shoot more of compositions (like Fan Ho), where people are more of a compositional element in the space rather than them being the main subject but India's is heavily crowded.

[@Sawta]

If Fan Ho had many buildings, but few people, perhaps you could have many people, but few buildings.

[@user-ri4fs6bc6x]

I feel ya

[@sadbravesfan]

@@Sawta few people in Hong Kong? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@xurrmusic]

I'm from Kolkata and i used to feel a little skeptical shooting outside cause of the people you know, but then i just did it one day and since then. I'm where i am. Thanks to Jamie, Samuel and many others whom i always look up to. IG: @frdx

[@voltgaming2213]

Dude you just crushed my dream of street photography I am returning the camera I bought, I will buy a Gaming PC with that that's something I can enjoy without hypertension created by KZbinrs and society

[@Sonderia]

I discovered street photography around one year ago. I used to be so afraid of people and not confortable being alone in the streets. But, this genre of photography (and photography in general) was very therapeutic for me. I am hypersensible and empathetic. I always look through my camera with a kind and loving eyes. I try not to juge and sometimes, I wonder about those people lives, who they are, what is their jobs. I also do it when I am not shooting ahah. But I really get the point of your video and now I want to be even more careful of how I work when I am walking down the street shooting. Thanks for this video man!

[@Nou-vn3ye]

Damn same. This resonates with me a LOT.

[@antonduncan5344]

"Can you accurately represent a culture that you are not part of?" Street photography aside for a second... Music photographers aren't rock stars, macro photographers are not insects, Henri Cartier-Bresson was not an orphan (his parents were wealthy and supported him financially) and the same goes for Fan Ho, who, as a child had servants and yet took photos of kids in slums - and so on. The point is, imagine how many cultures would remain unphotographed and how many moments lost if those images could only be taken by their peers. Documentary photography has, in the most part always been about capturing cultures the photographer was not part of. Your reasoning would imply that "middle class" photographers should stick to taking snaps of picnics on the lawn with a bottle of champers? - that ideology starts to sound like reverse snobbery. I think we both agree that photography should transcend class structures/cultural backgrounds/life experiences and focus on capturing and documenting a moment so the viewer can - in their own way - connect to that place in time whoever they are. If you ask, "Can you accurately represent a culture that you are not part of?" should you not also ask, "Can you truly relate to a photo if you have not had that experience?" i.e should we stop looking at photos that depict things we haven't personally been through as we couldn't possibly understand? I think that's exactly the point of photography in this case (and generally what people find so fascinating about it) - it's an insight into another world. If we can look at the images, are we not hypocrites for deciding who can take them? "How much insight can you really offer?" A good eye will capture emotion and understand how best to present the scene regardless of the photographer's background. I totally agree with you on the law vs personal ethics and thinking for yourself (which applies to every law), but I don't believe you should allow ethics to hinder your photography when out on the street. I'm not talking "Car-crash TV" but the best street photos (in my opinion) are those taken within a split second. If we pause to think about morality/ethics before taking each shot the moment has already passed. Maybe after the fact you may chose not to publish, but as long as you are not harassing people for the hell of it photography should be honest and without constraint as with any creative form.

[@jamiewindsor]

I'm not saying Martin Parr is wrong for doing what he does, just that it provides a different kind of viewpoint - maybe one with less of an empathetic connection and more of an observational one. Another consideration (that I didn't go into here) is that in the past, photography was a pursuit of those with more wealth and of a higher social class. These days, almost everyone has a smartphone with a camera. This changes the dynamic. I think this is a whole other video in the making here. Thanks for your comment anyway. Always interested to hear other points of view.

[@antonduncan5344]

​@@jamiewindsorThe provocative title of your video "Why you SHOULDN'T do STREET PHOTOGRAPHY" suggests it's about "street photography" aka "candid photography" which is, by definition, entirely observational. A "street photographer" does not have to have an "empathetic connection" (sometimes it helps not to) with their subject(s) - the role is simply to document what they see with as little interaction as possible. The work you include in the piece on Fan Ho is a compilation of shots that are heavy on composition with a small indistinguishable figure for scale and have more of an artistic quality than one of candid documentation. I think your critique of this work is spot on and therefore Fan Ho's intention to give the subjects anonymity was clearly not ethically motivated. I won't get into Nan Goldin - as you point out she is not a "street photographer". The irony of putting Fan Ho next to Martin Parr in this context is that (in their own way) I think they are conveying a similar message. To me, Martin Parr's detachment from his subjects, and the very average things they are doing is exactly the point; these images evoke a sense of not belonging and create a feeling of social isolation. The humour (which is no more than a gentle jibe) provokes us to engage, while the subject matter challenges our view of existence (at least for me).

[@BeyondSideshow]

"Music photographers aren't rock stars, macro photographers are not insects, Henri Cartier-Bresson was not an orphan" has nothing to do with the question. If that were the case, photographers could only take pictures of other photographers. Looks like there's quite a bit of strawmanning going on in this essay.

[@TheQuantixXx]

thank you for this!

[@RohannvanRensburg]

Ditto on the strawmanning, intentional or otherwise. I don't get the impression he's saying "think about ethics before every shot", but that if you don't already understand and have the intent to represent people you're shooting with an understanding compassion, this is where ethical issues lie. It's not about the "taking the shot", it's about what you look for in a shot and which ones you choose to display. The intent comes through an artist's work quite quickly, if they have any competence in their field. You see this with Nat Geo and similar photographers, winning "photo of the year" because they photographed some poor looking person in traditional garb who westerners with no context will assume are oppressed in one way or another. That's not a compassionate, dignified or remotely accurate way of representing that particular person in a lot of cases.

[@ramboruiz]

“We are limited by the lens of our own experience.”

[@jackshort2983]

Why not call the video “when not to do street photography”

[@jamiewindsor]

I don't think that title would attract as many of the people that I want to see this video.

[@quirkypurple]

@@jamiewindsor Brilliantly honest answer.

[@johnw.4000]

Because clickbait titles are effective.

[@myman7589]

Clickbait title. Legit content. High number of viewers and the insightful message is spread well. Love it ♥️

[@isaacashton8811]

@S Tra "So many"--~5.4% dislikes as of mid-October 2020--is not such a significant number.

[@258awesomeness]

There is another angle you could take when it comes to street photography, I've seen people argue for and against it in more art-related contexts. The idea about street photography that I've found myself adopting more and more (especially after taking some more formal art studies in college), I've come to find that street photography seldom is about people or the street itself, rather the photographer; you aren't just looking at some person standing on the street corner, you're looking at something the photographer saw in a scene that they wanted to show, much like in other artistic mediums. When you start looking at street photography in that light then, you start to look at street photos differently. It's less about what YOU see, as opposed to what the photographer saw and is trying to show you. It could be some moment they felt like capturing, or a small story to be told. This is all of course up to the interpretation by the viewer, but still a different view I thought was worth bringing up

[@SE013]

What a great comment. I totally agree. Photography in general is the artist's expression of the world after all, not the representation of the world.

[@K3zz21]

I like this explanation!

[@DavidGBlair]

Totally agree. Martin Parr’s photos seem deliberately chosen to make fun of his subjects. They are not honest in the sense that he has predetermined his narrative. Frank’s “ The Americans” is another prominent example of this kind of work.

[@NickyRoads]

*watches video* Is this what non regurgitated content looks like ? Good job, mate.

[@RudeRichDallas]

You're right!

[@charlidamelio-it6tf]

wHat dOes tHat wORD meAn

[@21syaf]

i learned a new word today, thanks

[@leanderhoefler7054]

I‘m definitely on the Fan Ho side of the spectrum, focusing mostly on composition, shapes and light. The people actually take a second place as a subject and are hardly ever identifiable. I work a lot with deep shadows and silhouettes. For me that‘s not only a aesthetically more pleasing way to shoot but also a less intrusive one!

[@stevjohnson6557]

Love Fan Ho, but what makes his work so special is the beauty and culture of Hong Kong it once was. I feel that if that was in the western world, it wouldn't look as great as it was. He was still a master of light and composition.

[@AnyoneCanSee]

I had a weird situation with photography. Someone took a picture of one of my plays and it has appeared in several books. They were not given permission to take the picture and, in fact, we specifically ask people not to do that. There are actors in costume in the picture and neither myself nor they were asked permission or are being paid. Weirdly this has happened three times to my knowledge and one is used in a main schools textbook for the entire UK. Surely people can't do this? If someone takes a picture at a play without permission surely they don't own the entire rights to that and the actor's image in the picture, to use in a commercial book?

[@lsamoa]

You're right, they violated your IP rights. It's a picture of your work, that you specifically told people not to photograph, and they're using it commercially. You could definitely take legal actions. They won't remove the photo from the book (or they might in the next edition if there is any), but they should credit you and pay you royalties. If that hits their pocket hard enough they'll be less likely to do it again to someone else.

[@marckyokay]

"It's legal! Therefore someone has done the ethical thinking for me!" Pretty much sums 2020 up regarding the irresponsible behaviour of people dealing with the covid situation where I live...

[@PhilippLenssen]

Also worth noting that such private photos even in public places actually ARE illegal in countries like Germany.

[@marckyokay]

@@PhilippLenssen I'm from Germany and had classes in university about these laws, though it's a bit more complex than "it's illegal" it highly depends on the content and intend of the photograph. A scene with several people or maybe one person that's not immediately identifiable, that's fine. But someone makes a portrait of your face without you giving consent, yes you can by law claim the photograph. It helps to ask people beforehand.

[@PhilippLenssen]

@@marckyokay Yeah you're absolutely right. And even a single person can be perfectly legal if they're part of a protest and they're wearing representative and unusual messaging. (Even on protests I usually ask people before-hand, though, as you say.) Crowd shots are also generally fine, but it's a bit of a gray area -- and what happens if it's uploaded to a digital site where users can determine their own crop, or an AI does that? Germany generally is not very "street photography friendly" for these reasons (also because one usually destroys the spontaneous situation when asking before-hand, whereas asking afterwards, which I often do, still puts you in the spot of having to take a photo some seconds before asking).

[@marckyokay]

@@PhilippLenssen Yes, you are absolutely right and therefore street is not very fun here. People have the potential to be very friendly if asked beforehand, AND also very hostile. Same goes if not asked beforehand. And there always are exceptions in both ways.

[@PhilippLenssen]

@@marckyokay I noticed with an ultra-wide lens, you can shoot someone who's so much on the side of the shot they won't notice (thus keep their spontaneous, authentic self), and then you can show them the picture and ask for permission. Not a perfect example, but I did it here and the father then gave me permission: file.coronabrowser.com.s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/20201030_104048.jpg (using Google Pixel 5, which does unfortunately not have a lot of detail in their ultra-wide photos)

[@tripathijee4912]

Glad you introduced me to fan ho.... He inspired me a lot 🙌🏻

[@George_Washington_]

You can differentiate between snapshots and photography easily, you can feel it when you see the photos. There's some kind of geometric order that makes sense or puts emphasis on life as we know it with photography, then there's the photos that just shows something, They're snapshots.

[@Garacha222]

There's an interview with him during recent years available on the net. He has since passed away.

[@theFATEfactory]

This is thought provoking and beautifully well done 🙌🏽📸🤔 Fan Ho is incredible. I myself shy away from street photography but do love urban exploration and environmental portraits. Thank you for making this. I’m adding this to my KZbin University playlist in hopes that it one day helps and inspires someone. Cheers!

[@JesusMartinezCreates]

theFATEfactory I thought I was the only one calling this youtube university lol 😂

[@theFATEfactory]

Wero Visuals 😅🤔🤔

[@murrayj.5990]

Very thoughtful and well-presented essay! I had hesitated to click on this link given that I've just recently re-captured my passion and practice of street photography: but the title doesn't represent the balanced intent of the essay. I agree with the concluding thoughts: that honest ethics (the goodness and badness of one's motives and actions) are vital to any serious (street) photographer. My only quibble is with the suggestion that cultural (or class) inclusion ought to be an ethical requirement to one's street photography's subject matter: detached observation can also be ethical. Also, empathy is not necessarily a vital component of street photography (as it is with street portraiture) because portraying a human subject in a street photograph is not really an essay on that person's life - just of that moment (and as with Fan Ho, his human subjects are anonymous anyways). I will keep your thoughts regarding respect, empathy and (mis)representation in my head as I carry on my street shooting! Thank you.

[@danlightened]

The title is clickbait. It has kind of become a necessary evil to have your videos seen amongst the myriad of content on the internet. But I knew Jamie is a thoughtful person and would have some good insights to give. I found the rest of your comment very insightful as well.

[@clippet0887]

Irl street photography on a daily basis and the intro shows some extremely rude photographers who won’t get anywhere like that. Being inspired by the paparazzi is not a good trail to go down. When shooting, I give respect and treat others how I’d like to be treated. If they spot me taking photos of them then I will talk to them and make sure that they are ok with it. If not, I delete even if they don’t ask me too. I also let them be comfortable in whatever position they want and don’t model them. Thank you for making this video. Much love. Be respectful. Keep up the good work.

[@alexjenkins9430]

There is 1 currently doing it now, if you get a chance look for David Wallace photos, he sticks his camera in people's faces without asking if the mind having their photos taken, his excuses are he wants a more natural look from them....

[@HomesickMac]

This is one of your absolute best videos and it touches the issues of my own view (and doubts) on street photography.

[@ne0ne0]

How incredibly insightful and spot on. You have one more subscriber.

[@monkeyman8265]

I think the worst street photographs are the ones where the photographer asks the subject for permission then a pose. They just come off as phony. The spontaneous shots are the best.

[@tomkenning5482]

It depends what you're trying to say with the photograph, if anything.

[@RudeRichDallas]

Fabulous, simply fabulous social commentary (and not just for photographers)! Once again, well done Jamie!

[@Mettyunuabona_]

Really liked this. I had an argument about ethics in photography with a New York photographer who likes to take photos of the homeless particularly if they are knocked out drunk; He REALLY doesn't like me... actually i think he hates me honestly. I asked why he does and refused to answer my question instead tells me (To paraphrase) that I'm not allowed to make criticism of his work. I wasn't, I was a curious person wanting to understand him better and he rubbed himself the wrong way. He then make an article about it on a photography blog several months later about the exact image defending himself about it. I didn't want him to defend or justify, I wanted to understand why as our ethics are juxtaposed. I'm a East Londoner; through and through I've seen my area of Canning Town turn from one the poorest area in the entire city to a gentrified haven full of homeless people struggling and dying on the street. It hurts me seeing them struggle and i wish i could do MORE. I personally don't want to benefit from anyone in absolute poverty or homelessness in my photography so i can get a handful of likes and comments; I was homeless for 2 weeks and i absolutely hated... I always think to myself "How would i feel if some photographer with his £10,000 Leica starts taking photos of me then wins Millions from my suffering" Furious is the answer. I will always shoot my hometown and show the grit and sudden prosperity of it all but I can never wherever I am shoot those down on their luck.

[@crispin8888]

Well said.

[@timrpbrown]

I agree. I always felt it was lazy and disrespectful to photograph homeless people unless presenting them with dignity (and their permission). It's too easy to take that shot "ooh, homelessness is bad..." No shit, but it's more complicated than that so try harder.

[@Magrafo_]

If he likes to take photos of the homeless particularly if they are knocked out drunk, he's not a street photographer, he's just an asshole.

[@JesusMartinezCreates]

Totally agree with you, unless the photography is used for a greater purpose, as to reveal the conditions they live in and try to help them out in some form. I ever take photos of homeless though as I do not have a greater purpose for those images as of now. I did photograph some rappers in mexico but my purpose with those images was to show the low budget studio that they held, yet they were creating amazing music! 👋🏼

[@ms.5779]

@@Magrafo_ and the people who pay for it

[@20centurymodern]

Remember too that street photography isn’t just people in streets, it’s very broad. It can be the environment or the urban landscape, architecture and a mix of all these elements, it’s not only just people in the street. Excellent video, apply your points of ethics to all element of street in the broadness of this style

[@mangoldm]

Thought provoking and beautiful video. Judging others is core to one’s own decision making. While making fun can be cruel, the opportunity to observe and evaluate is crucial if we are to live reasoned lives.

[@pedrination]

Absolutely amazing. Love your Videos, I can start appreciate photographers that I didn't know and you leave me something to think about. Thanks a lot for your very high quality work!

[@roberturquhartjr]

i paused about a 1/3rd the way through to write this...this is my 3rd video of yours and so far each one has given me something "interesting" to go look up...Dunning-Kruger, Call Me By My Name, (Bruce Gilden) and now Fan Ho...I love it man. Keep it up. Def subscribing...bell and all. Good work.

[@AustinBeeman]

Robert Urquhart Jr this sentiment exactly

[@thatRyzzle]

Good video! Though I think the title should be “How you shouldn't do street photography.”

[@Jazzileedelite]

Excellent point!

[@johndwilliams]

But then you might not have watched it?

[@wyatthunter987]

Indeed, but thats how youtube works, need some clickbait titles sometimes. Like, I know this is a dumb title, still I clicked on the video. Only for the comments tho, didnt watched it, I'm doing street photography and Im happy.

[@KrisHartley]

I love this SO MUCH. Ethics, empathy, and proper representation. There is so much to learn in this video. I'll definitely be watching again and jotting down notes. Excellent video and advice! Subscribing!

[@SilatShooter]

Superb Video on soo many points. Really made me think and loved how you presented some amazing images. Thank you!

[@berangert]

subtle and really interesting analysis. I enjoy that mix of authenticity, psychology and philosophical approach. Please keep doing those videos !

[@sbleistein]

This is one of the best discussions that recognizes both the importance to society and at the same time legitimizes ethical questions of street photography without being judgmental or legalistic. Very well done.

[@CitizenAyellowblue]

So refreshing seeing someone discussing ethics in the work that they do. Well done.

[@raffaelecodispoti3984]

Such a short video that leaves me with few important questions whenever I do street photography. Thanks for all the inputs and the inspirational thoughts

[@klemenswolf7552]

Great points Jamie Windsor! Really got me 100% till the end! & the editing... just wowwww !

[@DH-kx7ej]

I am a 56 Years old professional german Portrait-Photographer and i want you to know, that your thoughts inspiring me and keep me holding the line... Thank you.

[@DTUFINOPhotography]

I love your videos, super insightful and well spoken! Thank You!

[@powwowpuppet2064]

LOVE your vids bro! Really thorough and lovely delivery.

[@bananaman1394]

Very interesting point that you're making. I would say the problem isn't only that you put the person into a certain roll by telling this story with your photograph. Us humans in general are the problem. We love to judge and make fun of other people to unconsciously feel better about ourselves, to push our ego - the opposite of empathy and love for everyone no matter who they are or what they do. I like the fact that you're showing that photography is so much more than taking a shot and uploading it to instagram to get more followers. Thank you Jamie

[@jamiewindsor]

Schadenfreude I believe the phenomenon is called.

[@ahmedmustapha5051]

After the early retirement of Simon Cade(dslr guide) from KZbin, Jamie is putting out the same, priceless, philosophical, and thought provoking genre of content that the audience loves to watch. Splendid job again Jamie. Loved it!

[@ElizabethCarterMedia]

He retired??!

[@ahmedmustapha5051]

@@ElizabethCarterMedia Retired as in he barely uploads now.

[@ElizabethCarterMedia]

@@ahmedmustapha5051 Ahhh ok.

[@janrockar526]

Dude, agreed! I see far too often people arguing that it’s in their right to ‘steal’ a photo, while a simple smile and a nice word would make it more pleasant experience for both parties...

[@ehknguyen]

Thanks for your insight, I'm glad I spent the time to listen to you today!

[@TheMissesofV]

You are the brain, heart and soul not only photography, but the world needs. Art in any shape or form is there to put a magnifying glass on an issue, a problem or contradiciton. I am beyond grateful to have stumbled across your channel as I have been thursty to translate what I see and feel when I am out taking photos. "Pretty" is something I never strived for. Thank you, Jamie! The world would be a better place if empathy would be the rule 🙏

[@jamiewindsor]

Wow. That was very high praise. Thank you.

[@andrewjditton]

A most excellent video and philosophy Jamie, thank you.

[@louiseellen8600]

Hi Jamie, I loved this video. I'm an aspiring film photographer and I think you've put words to an apprehension I've had taking to the streets with my camera. Your presence on this photography nook of KZbin is super refreshing.

[@helianthe3457]

I didn't know what to expect when I clicked but I'm glad I did! Great vid, interesting, instructive and with relevant examples.

[@ross1972]

Very thought provoking. I literally got goose bumps when you showed Fan Hos photos they are incredible.

[@terrysankey3982]

Great video Jamie, I found myself in agreement with everything you said about ethics and connection with subject, particularly about Martin Parr (a very nice man on a personal level ) being an outside observer, gently poking fun at his subjects. I love the work of Fan Ho (thank you for putting a name to the numerous images I've admired for years!) but I would class him as an Urban Landscape photographer, his people are perfectly placed to emphasise the scale and sometimes inhumanity of the cities they inhabit. I love vidoes like this one that make you look and then make you think about what you're looking at rather than let it just 'flow' over you - thank you!

[@thisguyELW]

Your videos inspired me in many ways, the editing is brilliant... Thank you!!

[@NAlla9917]

Really enjoyed all your videos so far! It really feels like I am learning something! Great channel ;)

[@markharris5771]

When I was doing my law degree we were taught society is governed by three sets of rules; legal, ethical and moral. Personally I think street photography can challenge morality much more than ethics. Then I think it’s all about intent. Dorothea Lange was as middle class as you could get, yet her iconic images of the depression informed the world just how bad things were for many people. Gilden on the other hand, seems to come across as it is all about self, what he can gain out of the situation. He doesn’t seem at all bothered about upsetting his subject. I was a street alcoholic 24 years ago in January and I don’t feel alcoholics and people addicted drugs are any different than any other people with an interesting characteristic. If they are happy to have their photograph taken fine, if they are not happy move on. It’s about respecting all people as human beings. I think Fan Ho is amazing, I hadn’t heard of him until he died about 3 years ago and Ted Forbes did a video about him. Another fantastic video Jamie, and I think there’s going to be a very interesting debate.

[@petrub27]

Mark Harris and was he asking for a consent before taking the shot?

[@markharris5771]

Petru B. Petru B. This video starts with him proudly proclaiming he has no ethics. I’ve heard him saying something similar elsewhere and that he doesn’t care if he upsets people. This was somewhat demonstrated with his "Do you own the street?" in this video. However, I’m very unsure about him, that’s why I said "seems". His 'Haiti' book is nothing short of amazing and tells a very powerful story about a very poor nation in turmoil. It was both brave and an important bit of social history. I also have both concerns and plaudits for "Faces". I’ve seen him talking about the exhibition and book and I can see how it raises awareness of mental health issues, but part of me is very uncomfortable, something I’m far from around MH. I question if the images have to be taken with a 35mm lens to distort them even further? I’m unsure if he could have held back on the vibrance and saturation sliders when editing. One thing is for sure about him, he gets us all talking about photography and the issues he covers.

[@pahwraith]

Dorothea Lange was middle-class but she was also a woman and artists who was born in the early 1900s or was it late 1800s. When she was born women couldn't vote. They couldn't work outside the home if they were married. Even then, it was limited to clerical work and teaching children. Meanwhile she had the mind of an artists. The camera was her voice. It was her way to express herself as someone who was very much a second-class citizen, in her formative teenager years. So this gave her the ability to empathize with the poor. Also, her most iconic image was that of a down on her luck woman and her children. She actually stopped and talked to the woman before taking the photo. I think her being a a fellow middle-aged woman must have let her connect to her subject in that famous photo. I just got done reading about the f64 photo group she was a part of. It goes into the making of her photos and work in the wpa. She was struggling, they all were, during the great depression. She knew that there but the grace of of the wpa, she could have been the one living in a tent. A lot of mode class people ended up on the streets. She lost most of her commerical work and clients. They all did.

[@markharris5771]

pahwraith There’s none of that I disagree with. But when she ran off with Paul Taylor (I think but not googled it) she had a successful portrait studio for that time. She was also the daughter of a successful and liberal minded lawyer, and as such was from a totally different class to the lady in the image. All things are relatively and maybe poverty is the most relative of all. But yes you are right about her having empathy and that comes through her images. I don't see us as seeing things differently and maybe your comment gave substance. That could be why she thought it so important to capture these images, this returns us to one of the fundamentals of good photography...telling the story.

[@bigstick5278]

@@pahwraith :::: And without her we wouldn't know what life was all about during that era. And that the children of the time grew up and went to war, and without the war photographer we wouldn't see the carnage and sacrifice they dealt with or the atrocities of the concentration camps or victims of night bombing. AS Eisenhower asked take as much as you can of this, they will not believe it happened in the years to come. HE was correct. We need to photograph the truth, but to distort it is not the truth.

[@Khandiephotography]

This is a superb video. The shaving video angered me. We have become desensitized to our subject matter the more involved in social media we become I think. We want to be the hero in the image no matter what the content. The person who posted the shaving video wanted to be seen the comedian perhaps? Or not.

[@Protestan88]

And what's wrong with some comedy? It's not the maker's responsibility to take the viewer's hand. It doesn't matter why the dynamite was invented as much as it doesn't matter why guns were made. Everything can be twisted into something "bad". People will call me a cynic or a pessimist. Nope. Just a nihilist. Also what difference would some dramatic photo or video of that dude shaving make? Even then, people wouldn't care enough to do anything about his situation. Drama or tragedy was made for the purpose of sensitization and comedy for alleviation. Whether you prefer one or the other doesn't make you more or less "ethical".

[@mandurahchess]

If I had made a video of someone on the train, and published it with no comment, or perhaps "seen on the train," do you have a problem with that?

[@Khandiephotography]

@@mandurahchess that's not taking advantage or mocking someone. That's observation. So often videos are posted with some quip added that is the poster taking the mick

[@Khandiephotography]

@@Protestan88 this is more that people mock someone and yet the story isn't what we see. We aren't tabloid newspapers twisting life into our own narrative. We are observing theirs? I'm just thinking we need to think more and mindfully? Someone posted a video years ago of my mate drinking her coffee with a straw and dribbling a bit. We saw it back in the old days of msn and my mate was devastated. She had had a stroke and it upset her people would mock. I think having seen some damage caused it's not nice.

[@Protestan88]

@@Khandiephotography I don't exactly know the specifics and I personally wouldn't do such a thing out of my fear of the public eye (what people casually call respect) but I think people give too much attention to their perceived image in society. Your mate could choose to ignore the video. If the video doesn't slander an individual but only turns them into an unwilling character for the purpose of entertainment, whether that bothers that individual or not shouldn't become a focal point of dismay. I am an extremely sensitive person but my parents brought me up well enough to learn when and how to pick my fights. Everyone should be trained enough to take a little mockery and in the case of it being taken to the extreme they should learn to either play the game and be lighthearted about it or exploit it for self-publicity if they so wish. What we don't need is censoring and thinking that we are special. How many people do you think remember these videos of these people who were caught in embarrassing situations? It's a shame people take life so seriously since there are much more important issues to fix rather than worrying if someone is making fun of me having a moment of awkwardness or some handicap.

[@BradleyBarks]

Beautiful video, sir. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and ideas!

[@thewanderess]

Thanks for making this video. I have been thinking about these for awhile, especially every time I see the street photographs by a famous photographer. Good to know I'm not the only one!

[@gaelhillyardcreative]

Another superb and pertinent video, Jamie.

[@davidmillard2946]

Well done for producing this insightful video.

[@acalvillo35]

Great video! Gives me a lot of inspiration and clarity in street photography.

[@kennethakennetha]

I love how you tell your audience that it all comes down to what they want and the decision will still come from them.

[@pavel.suchkov]

Thank you! Respect for others is most important, not just in street photography, but in general.

[@JesusMartinezCreates]

Pavel Suchkov yes, agreed 🙏🏼

[@cleverdaft]

Well, what a beautifully eloquent insightful and self reflect causing few minutes. Mr W, my life is a little bit better for watching this and a little bit more better for being a subscriber of yours. Respect due...!

[@BryanJordanMusic]

Wonderful video, thank you for bringing this up.

[@curtiskupferschmid6102]

One of the most thoughtful and well done pieces of content I’ve seen on KZbin.

[@vantastic]

Great points mate. Thanks. Killer editing also.

[@dangerpowers123]

Thought provoking , great content as always 👍

[@Shreader10]

I love this video, not only is it asking questions that should be asked, it goes about it in a way not usually seen on KZbin. I particularly enjoyed the references to historical and contemporary photographers, this really helped highlight the points made.

[@zita-m]

I am so glad that I found your channel Jamie. On top of amazing videography/content, I'm really touched by your empathy, honesty and intelligence. It is truly inspiring! Keep up good work!

[@jamiewindsor]

Zita Marias Thank you. 👍

[@TomWhild]

That Bruce Gilden clip always makes me so uncomfortable. I wasn't familiar with Fan Ho's work until today so thank you for the introduction, it's really incredible work and resonates with me in in a way that the more forthright style of someone like Martin Parr never really did.

[@tonykeyworth3522]

For what it's worth Martin Parr has always called himself a documentary photographer and taken images with the consent of his subject often sharing prints with them. Please don't ever link Martin Parr in a group with Bruce Gilden whose gonzo, closer is better style is completely different in attitude and outcome.

[@TomWhild]

Tony Keyworth fair enough, I completely understand that Parr and Gilden are from different schools and it’s good to have more perspective on Martin Parr’s approach. The more I look the more I can see an element of humanity in his work even though the portrayals still don’t sit comfortably with me. Maybe that’s a good thing though as at least it makes us think and have a discussion.

[@mjfalcon007]

Ted Forbes from The Art Of Photography does a great little video on Fan Ho. That’s how I came to know his amazing work.

[@TomWhild]

Michael Falkous Nice, I’ll check it out. I like Ted’s stuff

[@GS-vb3zn]

Bruce Gilden isn’t a photographer, he’s a man with a camera who has learned one technique- shove the camera into a passerby‘s face, use a handheld flash when you fire off the shot , make sure you use a focal length that distorts and... presto! You’ve made a Bruce Gilden grotesque. He sucks.

[@danielcimpeanu]

Spot on mate! Thanks for the video!

[@MonkeyBoyDrinksVat69]

Great video. Informative, thought provoking & very well structured.

[@GuillaumeBay]

Very profound video that makes us think on the question. Thank you for sharing this :)

[@artmaltman]

Brilliant analysis of a question that I have often asked myself.

[@eleeadams]

I always respect your insights!

[@brianwashburn5583]

Great thoughts and great questions. Thank you for your sensitivity!

[@dalemartin6828]

This is a good video! I love street photography and ive done a few shoots of candid moments in the streets but for all the right reasons, and I love the images for the beauty they show

[@georgelayne5242]

I completely agree with you. I have struggled with this question for a long time: do I walk up to a subject and snap a photo or do I ask for permission? What I've discovered, however, is simply asking a subject for permission not only creates a connection, but you also take better portraits; people respect you more and you are able to find out some information about your subject.

[@peoplez129]

That's just a whole bunch of self serving high horse hogwash. The whole point of street photography is to show people going about their normal day. Standing to take a portrait is not that, heck it's not even street photography anymore. It's portrait photography.

[@reifrei1170]

@@peoplez129 Street photography doesn't have to be portraits, but doesn't have to be candids either. Can you even accurately portray someone's normal day without stopping to talk to them? You're missing out on all the context for their current situation and filling in with your own assumptions. Maybe by making a real connection with your subject you will be able to tell a better story with your shot. Just because a picture is candid doesn't mean it's authentic.

[@martindalpe.photography]

at first , when I saw the title, I was shock and said to myself, that Man is wrong, why he would say something like that, I was against the title.... then I listen...... and completely change my mind... Superbe video, I give this video 10/10 . Superb Exposé ! thanks for this. best video since a very long time. And Agree 100% with everything you say.

[@bernhardebner3105]

Wow. Rhythm, message and input in your video are wonderful - thank you for this eye-opener 🙏🤗

[@HarvyDangerFilms]

Very well stated and quite thought provoking. Great job.

[@chirag4]

loved the video MAN !!!!!!!!!!! don't have words to describe

[@ostegonation]

I've only seen a few of your videos so far, but I have to say that I'm impressed. I'm a trained anthropologist, and it is incredibly rare to see people in other professions be critically reflexive with their own preconceived notions and actions. You touched upon a debate that has been raging for years in anthropology, especially since most anthropologists do not come from the culture they are studying. In fact it's something that has been abused for too long with complete disregard for cultural relativism. It's one of the reasons I left the field of archaeology; the very act of digging up the past, which to most Native American groups is a continuing living memory (time isn't linear to them), without their permission while claiming some kind of academic moral high ground bothered me too much. I'm an amateur photographer at best; I've been focused on understanding the science, the technique, and the framing behind getting shots... but I haven't even considered my own cultural framework and biases in subject matter. I'm definitely going to give that as much thought as all of the other aspects I'm learning. Thank you for sharing these thoughts with this video, it definitely got me thinking!

[@Freakpelicanstudio]

Just found your channel bc this video was suggested. Really refreshing to find a photography video based around humanism and not just reviewing gear or tutorializing a specific technique. Kudos to your editing style and your usage of simple but high impact effect work like the revealing of the subjects of Fan Ho's work. Not sure if you are completing these videos 100% solo, but if you are, you deserve a round of applause for your work and a lot more than just the simple 'thumbs up' and subscription of your channel I have been able to grant this piece.

[@stevekingswell9143]

Just started watching your channel, great insights, great questions, very much enjoying it.

[@kevinstart5107]

I live in Hong Kong. Right now I'm 17 and HK will be taken back by China in 2047. This is the reason I am learning street photography. I don't think people are capturing much these day in HK. Everyone's busy and no one's got the time to take normal street pictures and that's why I wanna have some recalling of HK when it's taken back by China.

[@kevinstart5107]

So basically, in 1997, The British agree return Hong Kong back to China under the condition of allowing HK to maintain its freedoms and rights that China doesn't have. They agreed on a time span of 50 years, after 2047, China will basically take over completely ( Assuming things don't change).

[@bigstick5278]

@@kevinstart5107 ::::: Take as much as you can because it will definitely change. And send your work to another person outside of China because they will say, "It's always been like this" once the change happens.

[@bigstick5278]

@@kevinstart5107 ::::: Take as much as you can because it will definitely change. And send your work to another person outside of China because they will say, "It's always been like this" once the change happens.

[@stefanhensel8611]

In Germany, we found our very German solution to this problem: It's simply VERBOTEN to take photos of other people as long as they don't explicitly consent. And it's up to the photographer to prove their consent. You have to be part of the authorities or of one of the big Internet companies to document contemporary life. RIP Street Photography.

[@recration]

Nein oder?

[@justincase2271]

Stefan Hensel As Long as it is in public, you can photograph anything and everything. Also people. But you can’t publish it without permission often times.

[@09goral]

Each video is like a masterclass in photography and philosophy. Awesome content. It’s rare to see so many videos without a single dislike. Thank you and congratulations.

[@gerodeo]

My god ! Thank you so much for making the endless abyss of photo info so much easier to understand .

[@geoffbartlettphotography9434]

Thanks for this, and for the introduction to Fan Ho. I'm glad to see a compassionate treatment of street photography that's not all about the photographer's imperative for a good shot.

[@JesusMartinezCreates]

That caption was kind of click bait in my opinion haha but great video! I definitely understand everything you talk about and agree with it. My faborite photo was one I took of my dad in his room watching tv, to others he will look like a middle class immigrant but to me, he is my hero and I understand what struggles and how much he has succeeded within his own life. With my correct caption people can then understand my point of view, but without it they would just draw their own conclusions and probably not so good ones. Also a lady cursed me out once I was doing street photography lol, worst part I was only photographing buildings lol

[@adamdavid5046]

Very brave to confront a topic that many would get defensive about (especially due to the title). Well reasoned and objective. Thank you!

[@LadJamma]

Jamie Windsor, great videos, much like great photography should make us think, and your challenge to the obvious perception around street photography here is refreshing and absolutely bang on. It’s the exact reason I rarely shoot street. New subscriber. Thank you.

[@lapamful]

You're right. Martin Parr is a snob and ridicules his subjects. When I was younger, I thought he was making some good points about obesity or whatever but now I look at his stuff and I just think how dare he. When I was studying photography, the teacher said you have to love the people that you shoot. That isn't the case with Parr. I'm just making this comment now because there's a backlash against Parr's type in politics too. It's just become more prominent in our minds and the way the people and democracy have been treated is just outrageous. We can't take any more of it.

[@jmoropeza1390]

I find myself struggling with your argument about representation, because you are fundamentally right and I agree with your point of view, (here it comes...) BUT every artistic genre is subjective to the public, even if we think that our messsage is loud and clear, it usually get 'lost in translation'. What's art if not an invitation to get our subjectivity involved with a piece that move us in some way or another? Even tho i agree we should produce and present the message in an ethical way. Cheers mate!

[@plsbekind]

i think what you said about art has some issues when applied to random strangers you see on a street or some people in general. like where's the line between putting them in a box that you think fits and actually creating an accurate representation of them and/or the culture they're part of. they are real people that often times don't exactly give the photographer an invitation to present them in the way they end up presented. i think that's the only difference between any other art form and one that contains people you know practically nothing about.

[@jmoropeza1390]

@@plsbekind I get your point and I agree that there must be an ethical line, a respectful one, but putting people in a box that could missrepresent them is part of our subjective nature. After an argument, We missrepresent people that we know deeply for example. My personal line is not to harm, that's my ethical line, but I know that art is about emotional messages, not rational ones. If the content is emotional, is about what we feel, what is important to us, what moves us and that's what we try to tell to the world. Maybe is a missrepresentation, but if we are not harming or have a malign intent, it"s valid that we missrepresent the world, it's part of our subjectivity. Cheers!

[@pedrocampos149]

thank you for such a beautiful essay. it has really resonated in me.

[@awnyapow]

I don't spend a lot of time on KZbin these days but I came across your channel recently and have found myself watching some of your uploads a few times over. Still catching up on everything. Really great and thoughtful work.