Jan Ove Waldner vs. Vladimir Samsonov --- Shanghai Table Tennis World Cup 2005

[@winglow7615]

2 gentleman players of highest skill level. Wardner was far from his peak here and Samsonov was thought to inherit Wardner's world dominance. One thing we all know, both lasted a long time and will always be respected.

[@TTCyger]

the scary thing about samsonov is, he decided very early in his career to focus on founding a family and not to push his career to the limits and still top 10 for almost 2 decades.

[@devertz995]

TTCyger Really? I didn't know this fact about Samsonov

[@TTCyger]

@@devertz995 saw an old interview from him when he was still playing for Borussia Düsseldorf.

[@TTCyger]

@@crescentbabu7855 scary in a good way. I just imagined how strong he would be with more determination

[@andymcneil7085]

Yes his ball placement was far superior.

[@larat4267]

Samsonov with fantastic skills. The blocking and change of direction is gorgeous. And for almost 20 years he´s in the top ten. All respect to this great player.

[@racketman2u]

But only one was the best in the world for about 10 years, and it wasn't Samsonov; but Waldner was well past his peak here.

[@maxfactor4209]

@@racketman2u NO... Ma lin and Liu Guoliang and Kong linghui were in same level if not better

[@subhasischattopadhyay3157]

Samsonov still alive in top 20 in 2019. tabletennis.guide/alldata.php?name=vladimir-samsonov-108246

[@dickn.ormous1064]

@@maxfactor4209 Waldner demolished Kong Linghui most of the time,he beat convincingly Ma Lin in the Olympics and turned around his rivalry against Liu Guoliang winning the last 3 matches.He is far above them in achievements .

[@epic1053]

@@dickn.ormous1064 Samsonov had better longevity but waldner is the better player overall and by some margin. Sadly samsonov was never able to win an olympics or world championships.

[@fredrikjaensson7350]

Jan-Ove Waldner was the greatest of all the great players we have seen😁👍. He will be nr1 forever. And Samsonov did it great in this game👍

[@amirhooshang1269]

JO was 40 years old at this year ( 2005) and Samsonov 29 years old. Two great players.

[@stephanedenizon2858]

Toujours un bonheur de voir Jan Owe Waldner ❤❤❤❤

[@prashantkumar9168]

Waldner to his coach be like: Son!! What do you think I should try against him. 😂

[@jonneville2287]

Watching Sterneborg's expressions was more entertaining than the match.

[@detherocablest7054]

The coach be like: “Yeah, I’ve got nothing. You’re getting a taste of your own medicine!”

[@olaniyi570]

My favourite player of all times. He simple didn't have the speed anymore at this stage and retired from international competition soon after this.

[@marciovinicius862]

I don't think that's the explanation...Just a year before that he was able to win timo boll and ma lin in the olympics

[@dickn.ormous1064]

@@marciovinicius862 Samsonov was a more difficult opponent for old Waldner.Last time he beat him was at the 2000 Olympics and he had to pull crazy forehands to hit through his defence. Samsonov was 1,90m good from both wings,Ma Lin as good as he was had poor defence and his short game had little effect on Waldner. Different match ups.

[@JazzyJesterTechPing]

Amazing to see how well Jan receives the lost in the match, almost no emotions outside at all.

[@provodnik2889]

великие спортсмены, оба гения н.тенниса!

[@АндрейБогданов-э8ф2з]

Согласен

[@АндрейБогданов-э8ф2з]

Оба обладатели идеальной техники

[@shard_of_memory]

슬프게도 나이는 어떤 영웅이든 약하게 만들고, 무너지게 만듭니다만, 여기서 짚고 넘어가야할 점은 백핸드 타법입니다. 구 세대에선 강력한 회전이 담긴 공은 포핸드 루프가 거의 유일한 수단이었고, 이는 순간적인 손목 탄성을 이용한 압박(푸쉬)로 극복해 낼 수 있었습니다. (소수 플레이어들이었지만) 게다가 백핸드 쪽으로 오는 공은 돌아서 플레이해야만 했으므로, 발이 아무리 빨라도 푸쉬로 상대 빈 공간에 빼버리면 쫓아가기가 굉장히 어려웠고, 불가능했죠. 하지만 백핸드 기술이 발전하고, 손목 사용에 대한 발전이 생기면서 백핸드 쪽 주도권이 굉장히 중요해졌습니다. 전에는 푸쉬하고 돌아섰던 플레이가 이젠, 자리잡고 백핸드에서 계속 꾸준히 거니까요. 삼소노프를 보면 각을 미리 결정해놓고 문질러서 뿌려버리는, 그리고 본인이 자신있게 임팩트를 구사할 수 있는 공은 손목의 탄성을 이용해 튕겨내면서 양 코스를 흔듭니다. 반면 발트너는 백핸드를 칠때 각이 상당히 많이 뒤틀리고, 들리며, 그로 인해 백핸드 범실이 많아지자 (노장임에도 불구하고) 모두 포핸드로 돌아서려고 하죠. 이 장면이 수도없이 반복됩니다. 그리고 이후 16년 후인 지금은 더이상 선수들은(적어도 세계랭킹 Top 10안에 있는 선수들은) 발트너처럼 플레이하지 않습니다. 적어도 백핸드 주도권이 있을때에만 포핸드 전환을 하죠. 저는 이 경기가 대표적인 백핸드 이해도와 백핸드의 전술구사능력의 차이를 보여주는 경기라고 생각합니다. 더이상 쇼트(혹은 푸쉬)만으로는 백핸드 드라이브를 구사하는 플레이어에게 주도권을 가져올 수 없고, 그로 인해 돌아서서 무리를 해야만 하는 구도가 생기며, 그런 구도를 이용해 백핸드 드라이브를 거는 플레이어는 더욱 쉽게 포인트를 얻을 수 밖에 없는..그런 대표적인 경기였다고 생각합니다. 물론 경기는 여러가지 행운(혹은 컨디션이라던지)이 따랐다면, 발트너가 이겼을 수도 있다고 생각은 합니다만, 그것이 곧 '발트너의 경기 스타일이 옳고, 맞았다!'고 생각하진 않습니다. 전체적인 구도를 만들어낸 것은 결국 백핸드의 우위 문제였기 때문이고, 이를 다른 것으로 이겨내었다면, 그 백핸드 우위가 충분치 않았다고 생각합니다. 이는 현재 상위 랭커들이 어떻게 게임을 운영하고 있는지를 살펴보면, 두 플레이어 중 누가 현대 탁구를 잘 이해하고 있고, 전술을 잘 수행했는가를 알 수 있죠.

[@ein99999]

WHoever is doing the horn noise needs to be removed.

[@serendipity5874]

Tai chi master vs the Mozart, it just can't get better than this

[@MrKonstantin37]

Разделал под орех валднера, Самсонову при жизни памятник надо ставить, он великий спортсмен, рядом по стратегии и тактике ни кто не стоит!!!!!

[@вольт-ъ5ш]

Ma lin

[@dimdi8944]

да просто руки длинные

[@endezoor]

I love the yawning man at 14:18 . It was a good match, though, nothing to yawn at.

[@tt-zone1447]

Два Великих...!

[@bjornkarlsson7206]

Mr Magic.The best player Evert.

[@СегрейКряж]

Хорошая игра. Получил удовольствие.

[@arhon888]

24:49 I think Samsonov has a form of anti spin / low spin on his backhand. So many times Waldner's 2nd topspin drops into the net, which is a classic sign. Plus Waldner is always a little perplexed each time this happens, and keeps looking at his bat, and even gives it a wipe on a good few occasions. Great game.

[@dickn.ormous1064]

40mm ball had inconsistent bounce.

[@arhon888]

It is possible, but my observation is based on the point at which it happens. Also, the ball would not bounce irregularly for one player only:-)

[@andreaseriksson8803]

I can promise you that he would have known that and adjusted his game for it. He's been in the world elite for almost 35 years, he knows all the materials. It was just humid and the modern rubbers back then performed shit in humidity. It probably is like so that he had a new series of rubbers played in low humidity and this was the first really humid game, and he went with the calibration for "old rubbers". That's my cent...

[@dickn.ormous1064]

​​​​@@andreaseriksson8803 Waldner as good as he were didn't have a natural bh loop/counterloop, which is why he had troubles against short pimples. He did adjust for example against Liu Guoliang but he had to do special training and after the 2000 Olympics he had too many injuries to adjust to the 40mm ball. Hell,even Samsonov didn't really adjust his backhand to the 40mm ball as evidenced by his 2003 WTTC match against Kreanga. It was mentioned by many players at the time than bh driving/blocking didn't work with the 40mm ball because the two hemispheres had different hardness and you couldn't know which side of the ball you're hitting. One can see how Wang Liqin changed his bh to a more loopy counter movement with the 40mm,altough he was still weak against players with good bh.

[@andreaseriksson8803]

@@dickn.ormous1064 I can agree with most of your analysis there. As a fact he didn't have a strong "modern" bh loop although all in all he had a strong bh. It was just that his bh loop was of the 90's model.

[@jradovich]

I enjoyed watching this match. Samsonov played well. It seems like Waldner was having some equipment issues. Perhaps humidity on his rubbers?

[@GREGLEW96]

His problem was not equipment issues but Samsonov. That's how he expressesed his hoplessness: blaming the rubber

[@jonneville2287]

Waldner seems to have a habit of blaming something other than himself when losing a match. Another time when losing badly to a Chinese player, he started to rub his shoulder as if injured.

[@michelneault6081]

I like seing how cool and fluid move sansonov.

[@Caracupa]

Сильная влажность, все недоумённо смотрят на резину.

[@philipchief4406]

Jan Ove Waldner seemed uncomfortable with the noise. Too much noise there.

[@heighhom1517]

Jingf Pu lol! 🤣🤣 Wake up bro!

[@stockholm7130]

Asian women should not be allowed in the arenas. They have given me EIGHT broken windows over the years, because of their loud voices. (the voices themselves, not me throwing the racket....ok, one time)

[@ecke9635]

Dont think so, 1995 wttc team final he handled it well

[@dennisfrancis1126]

Agreed. I believe this obnoxious crowd noise (at pro-level events no less) was one of the reasons why these televised table tennis matches couldn’t catch on here in the U.S. I for one, couldn’t stand to even watch this. Can you imagine if the crowds were like this at a pro tennis match??

[@philipchief4406]

@@dennisfrancis1126 win loss mean too much back then

[@ShaTenniPo]

History legends!

[@rintarouokabe8950]

Amazing

[@subhasischattopadhyay3157]

WALDNER was not in his form at all. He missed so many simple returns and was unable to simply move here. The great king of table tennis in all times seems losing the kingdom. Feel bad with great respect to the Mozart of TT. ,🙏

[@РоманЧитаев-л3ы]

по моему это лучший чемпионат Вовы. хотя это конечно легендарный спортсмен!

[@dasolle1337]

waldner easily the best of all time outside of china

[@thomaswegner9065]

Zumal hii m

[@badcompany2984]

but he played 5 years to long.

[@SkepticalCaveman]

He was better then all the Chinese player's. The Chinese today have it easy since Europe is so much weaker than 20 years ago. Timo Boll is still a top player today tells something a bout how easy it is.

[@alekseyshcherbakov6974]

Володя!Самсонов ну просто умничка!Шведа под орех разделал!

[@RabbaniRasha]

What is Vernon Dudley (sitting on coach's chair) doing here?

[@JohnPaulPaquibot]

super mario got a new job ....rumor has it

[@lildavey09]

LOOOOL

[@samuelyan1992]

Good placement But slow movement

[@87Avantgarde]

Incredible what happened within 14 years. This game is super slow-mo compared to modern players like Fan Zhendong, Xu Xin, Hugo Calderano, Ma Long, Timo Boll or Shoutimoto.

[@neroma]

Was much more spin in the ball. Now the game is faster but with less rotation

[@aleksthegreat4130]

Time Bol was an active player 14 years ago,so Waldner would adjust his game to the modern standards

[@ttjesus4959]

Rubber and sponge technology vastly improved after 2008. And there have been very recent advances in rubbers and sponges also. Plastic balls are used now too, which tend to spin a little bit less than the celluloid balls. And hell, even blade technology has improved considerably in recent years. This is why the game looks different nowadays. Player styles play a small part too. And the styles are now being shaped by the new technology in the equipment. It's all about power shots, power blocks, and agility from the player. And honestly, Waldner wasn't overly heavy on spin, and he wasn't overly powerful either. His greatness stems from manipulating his opponents' shots. He would set you up with a decent look at your "best" personal shot and usually he would get you to hit it cross-table to his backhand. And boy, he loved the backhand block. He would block up the line a bunch too. And he was such a master at manipulating the play like that, that it was really difficult to get him out of his setups. I'm sure he had tons of setups and finishes. And he could pull him off. Nothing else even mattered. Waldner in his absolute prime would SMOKE any current top guys like Fan Zhendong. It doesn't matter how quick Fan moves. Waldner will make it look physically effortless and totally smash Fan. JUST SAYING!

[@erstonoutway7281]

@@ttjesus4959 Bro this is what waldner did to yan sen in wttc 1997. He purposely let him play his strong forhand just to say "This is the best you got?"

[@erstonoutway7281]

The sheer speed and spin from the ball right now is slower but nowadays the ball is played mostly off the bounce or at the highest point in his arc which results in faster paced rallys and less time for reaction. Despite rubber and sponge advancement, speed glue was faster.

[@СергейКордюков-у5б]

Две легенды, иногда кажется мяч фигеет от такого интеллектуального тенниса.

[@СергейТрухан]

Володя на высоте... гоняет Валдера, как то других :-)

[@АнатолийРуцкий]

Все у Володи хорошо, только цепь мешает.

[@ВалерьянИрмолаев]

гоняет Вальднера, как зайца))))

[@giorgione96]

Wander seemed to have trouble with the rubbers/paddle!

[@jrk1666]

samsonov's rubber was weird could be some sort of low friction or anti-spin

[@tianxu6611]

I still remember 18 years old Waldner in world cup team final vs China. Chinese commentator said Waldner learned all Technics invented by Chinese. But use it better than all Chinese players, including their world champion. The golden era team China won 5 : 1. But it was very close.

[@MyElune]

Samsonov looks half demonic here

[@eloimumford5247]

A vaincre sans péril , on triomphe sans gloire . Kudo to both .

[@pinkfloydtimebeatles5670]

Eloi Mumford Like better the fall harder non more I told her to leave me all alone that wat she’s done that lonely one and now I can’t longer I footstep pong is very hard bye

[@ЯнаКарманова-п1з]

Нравится красивая форма Вальднер

[@silentscribes]

the crowd is just horrible.

[@winglow7615]

Just typical Chinese. Same everywhere.

[@raymondchan3587]

just like Harimoto clone that was built in China

[@serjos27s]

Последним ударом поставил жирную точку!

[@slametsupriyono5612]

24/5/2024 👍❤️

[@smilen75bekyarov93]

и двамать са победители за сички браво за това живейь за красоть да не усештам страх от животь

[@dariogutierrez6716]

Ain't this the 1997 WTTC final?

[@gerritdeheij]

in 18 years table tennis has evoluted a lot ,against FZD Ove Waldner would make 2/3 points a set

[@dickn.ormous1064]

FZD is not bigger than Kong Linghui and has a big belly,Waldner would've smacked with his forehand.

[@vivienseguy]

Waldner was stronger than Ma Lin who was stronger than Wang Hao who was stronger than Ma Long who was stronger than FZD.

[@willierxt2466]

awesome.

[@СергейПодобед-л4х]

Это тут как на льду на лыжах. Не игра, а обоюдное мучение

[@n00kie]

Back then you can still hear the plain speed glue sound from the rubbers. What a shame that using speed glue is forbidden nowadays.

[@richardfuckstick1433]

These days it just called "booster" and most of the pro players still use it. Especially the Chinese. It's too expensive for the regular Joe to use though since "boosting" rubbers decreases the rubber's life considerably. They should really ban boosting too so everyone is on a level playing field. I would boost my rubbers too if i had an old Asian man to do it for me and then assemble all my bats. It's tricky, time consuming, and expensive and a bit wasteful. Rubbers that may last 2 or 3 years unboosted are only good for 2 or 3 months boosted.

[@JensHove]

@@richardfuckstick1433 ... and F1 should use mainstream tires as well. Level playing field MY ASS. You egalitarians make me sick.

[@beanburritocs]

This is the World Championship, not the World Cup

[@adnangulener9740]

Waldner maçı kafada kaybetmiş

[@Fontsman]

Sadly Waldi was well past his prime at this stage. In '97 he was supreme and killed a young Samsonov for the World title.

[@ingullar]

Waldner always was too tricky for Vladi. ...I never understood Waldner's so called "genius". Clumsy style, no fitness at all, technique is close to amateur... Never liked this player. But he has demonic concentration and intuition, and they almost always led him to success...

[@philcawser]

Wow, that comment is going out on a limb. Certainly the Chinese always said Waldner had flaws, but they were comparing minor differences from perfect technique of the time. However, his ability to disguise what shot & spin he was hitting made him unplayable at his best. Even here, way past his physical best, he shows what he can set up; but he failed to finish off many positions and Samsonov is way too good not to capitalise.

[@dickn.ormous1064]

He was very agile in his prime and could hit great shots on the run.His technique was simply exceptional even by modern standards.His forehand loop and serve was the best of his generation.His aerobic capacity was elite pentathlon level.

[@lildavey09]

It took 7 years, but Samsonov got his revenge for 97'

[@pham1020]

Samsonov's revenge was actually his 3-0 victory over Waldner in 2001 WTTC. Only 4 yrs needed. They met 5 times. Waldner won the first 2 meetings in 1997, 2000 and Samsonov won the next 3 meetings, 2 in 2001 and this match in 2005.

[@drdre5286]

@@pham1020 they met far more than 5 times

[@pham1020]

@@dickn.ormous1064 Why are you saying this?

[@somebose7395]

Not really revenge. Waldner old his level had drop alot since 97. This loss didn't mean much

[@pham1020]

@@somebose7395 It is a revenge. A win is a win. It is a World Cup match and it means something. Waldner not being as good as in his prime is not Samsonov's fault. Since he was competing then he better prepared to get his butt kicked.

[@urybeyene8039]

Vood job

[@subhasischattopadhyay3157]

JOW was lacking with movement, racket issues, missing simple returns... quite recurring at the post 2004.

[@d_e_n_i_s1726]

Нет слов

[@frank.h8094]

Waldner hatte Glück in seiner besten Zeit gab es nicht wirklich sehr gute Spieler, daher seine Erfolge.

[@Time_Lapse_Master.]

isnt it world champs

[@abraziv9255]

SAMSONOV IS A NOMBER 1 IN THE HISTOOY OF EUROPEAN TABLE TENNIS

[@ВалерьянИрмолаев]

Самсонов в пике своей формы в этом матче просто издевался над теряющим свою былую форму Вальднером. Зажимал его влево и потом неожиданно менял направление.

[@d_e_n_i_s1726]

1:50 я уже думал в сухая будет)

[@gabrielcustodioIA]

1:32 who dat boy?

[@Ragameiste]

Samsonov is easy on the eye and easy on the body, hence the longevity.

[@ManicMindTrick]

Easy on the eye?

[@andreaseriksson8803]

And waldner didn't have longevity, then?

[@bonsaimonsai]

die 2000er (kommentatoren) waren schon sehr hart hyped von waldner :D und immer dieses achhh wenn der alte sich bewegen muss, dannnnnn wirds eng

[@Fontsman]

Sadly Waldy was well past his 1997 peak, where he obliterated Samsonov.

[@YFHuang-gd9gv]

Older!

[@meliodas5845]

0:46:OHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

[@smite5135]

Man hat richtig gemerkt, wie der Kommentator fast geweint hätte, als sein großer alter Schwede von Samsonov so vorgeführt wurde. 😂

[@andreydanilov4694]

Мне одному показалось что они из далека похожи

[@ChessArmyCommander]

Waldner probably thought it was all a bad dream. Losing and not able to turn things around.

[@Nagua7]

yeah

[@nicknickoff132]

У Валднера заметно слабый бэкхенд.

[@特玛]

Он формировался как теннисист в 70-е и 80-е годы, тогда этому не уделялось столько внимания.

[@alberthuang4868]

Waldner owns Samsonov number

[@kennethselin1398]

Hey

[@dimdi8944]

ппц я думал валднер дёрнет его

[@eugenioduran2997]

Estos dos jugaban a humillar a sus contrincantes. . Pero son considerados heroes, jugaban tecnicamente Bien pero eso no justifica su comportamiento

[@milordmiya4900]

Самсонов хорошо отбивал

[@Когнитом]

Специалисты диванные собрались.Всем повылазило сколько мячей у шведа свалилось с накладки. Только один написал ,что у Яна проблема с резиной. Володя великолепен, но это не отменяет того , что Ян играл кухонной доской. Видимо существуют ограничения на смену ракетки в течении встречи.

[@mingyu3057]

Feels so slow

[@orionilian]

6;52,7;37

[@CWZ1116]

Waldner 的反手太弱，Samsonov 完封 Waldner 是很正常的.

[@КириллКрокодилл]

Та да, ебать.

[@marcosluciosilva2433]

2 gentleman players of highest skill level. mas uma *corneta de campo de futebol* não combina com tênis de mesa. que vergonha

[@weltmeister9840]

Warum hat Samsonow so leicht gewonnen?! 😲

[@ek_04kk88]

Welt Meister Weil Waldner alt geworden ist

[@weltmeister9840]

Feuer Dämon Möglich, aber egal zu leicht.

[@tj_1260]

Yerls

[@toshizou999]

うるさすぎてワルドナーの集中力が明らかにないな。ま、サムソノフにとってもうるさい状況だから強かったのはサムソノフってことだけど。

[@PrinceKatanaAonSport1402]

Waldner salah karet kui

[@toocoolarwana2748]

I think Jorgen Persson in 2008 (42 years old) more better than Waldner in 2005 (40 years old). Persson in 2008 play almost equally with samsonov in Beijing 2008. In this match, Waldner look mediocre. If he play with Persson, I bet Persson will win

[@dickn.ormous1064]

It's a match up thing.Persson has the reach and bh to keep up against Samsonov who has a similar style to him.But he wouldn"t beat Ma Lin in 2004.Also the Olympics had lighter schedule compared to WTTC which helped veterans.

[@badcompany2984]

Backhand from Waldner to soft.

[@x2h3]

Sounds like a baseball game --- nobody's really watching.

[@videomailYT]

Zuerst hatte er kein Glück und dann kam auch noch Pech dazu... 😕

[@freehoa9315]

Jan-Ove Waldne good reason blamed on the WET racket. LOL

[@valeriynaoumenko9101]

В одни ворота. Браво! Putin - Khuilo!!!

[@Женя-д9г5б]

кто написал что это 2005 год тот идиот играют есчо старым маленьким мячом. это 99 или 2000 где то

[@EIKAinc]

Идиот - это вы. В Шанхае был единственный ЧМ по НТ, это 2005 год. Других ЧМ за последние 90 лет в Шанхае не было. Первое фото в статье - с этого ЧМ tabletennis.hobby.ru/other/lenta05-2005/04-05-2005.shtml

[@suginami123]

Noisy cheap crowd. Very low class behavior.

[@aaronzichaocao1941]

oh yeah? why does some top classes like you put a shit comment on youtube

[@winglow7615]

Just typical Chinese audience. Same everywhere.

[@yeswecan-what1194]

This Publikum is really terrible

[@Erika-zl8fw]

poor video quality

[@Nagua7]

it was a season when were too much womens in jans live

[@quantumeyes8546]

Ok. Just enjoy Table Tennis, please . "Keyboard warriors" please stop !

[@benon777]

Tyvärr var hans backhand inte lika bra som hans forehand och det utnyttj

[@константинСтарый-о7ъ]

Швед

[@jackgraham4803]

Samsonov skills no more useful by modern ping pong ,no body block this days just attack ! He lost lot of times to Chinese modern player by this reason !!!

[@вольт-ъ5ш]

Moderm ping pong is trash. The real table tennis was in 90's and 00's

[@rzademir7425]

Samsonov hayatının balı ile gelmiş. Bu durum waldneri sinir etti.

[@tim99291]

Waldner, shame on you for not even a slight apologise for your netball luck at 4:20, no honor for you.