Japanese 8mm Hamada Type 2 Pistol

/ forgottenweapons
Just as production of the .32ACP Type Hamada pistols was reaching full scale, Bunji Hamada was asked to redesign his pistol to use the standard 8mm Nambu cartridge. This he did, and after several changes required by the Army (which appear to have had more to do with giving the Army some claim to the design rather than for any practical reasons) it was adopted in 1943.
Production of the .32ACP pistols continued uninterrupted, while a defunct textile factory in Notobe was renovated to become the production plant for the new Type 2 Hamadas in 8mm. Machinery was provided by the Torimatsu factory, and the guns were to be sent to Torimatsu in the white for final finishing operations.
While several thousand were made according to surviving records, the only ones still known in existence today have serial numbers between 2 and 50 and are still in the white. This suggests that aside from a small initial (sample?) batch, all the Type 2 Hamadas were destroyed or lost - possibly by aerial bombing or during transit on the ocean.

[@bikkiikun]

The problem with Japan's military at the time was, that basically many of those "brave" officers on the "home front" were aristocrats who were brought up in a feudal tradition.

[@pavarottiaardvark3431]

Well, they were brought up in what they imagined to be 'feudal tradition', but was really more sociological cosplay.

[@VersaceJesus]

Or more specifically, they didn't have an officer class that was decimated by WW1. You see this sort of aristocratic ego across the participants in WW1. But so many were killed, or humiliated by their failures, that their militaries became more open to innovation and meritocracy.

[@bikkiikun]

@@VersaceJesus : That might indeed be part of the issue. And is (fortunately) one of the root causes that Japan lost. Other powers were training pilots like there's no tomorrow, America even introduced the WASPs (women pilots who'd fly non-combat missions and ferry flights)... talk about "woke" vs. "manly" military... "woke" has won even then. All the while in Japan lots of talent was overlooked and the training of new pilots went on a very low level, because of aristorcratic thinking. So that Japan was unable to compensate losses... not just at Midway, but from the very start, every loss was costly, because competent replacements were far and few between. Another part of the aristocratic thinking was, the lingual-arrogance... the unwillingness to even consider that their military code was broken... or that the Americans would understand Japanese... hence Midway and Operation Vengeance. And of course in the Battle of Okinawa the Yamato was sent to die with a crew of "commoners", instead of the blue bloods for which it was built.

[@ThumperLust]

⁠​⁠@@bikkiikunActually, the US Army Air Force also had to “create” reasons to fail very capable pilots out the pilot program because the money just wasn’t there to support that many pilots. Robert S. Johnson tells us this is his book “Thunderbolt!” and this was in 1941.

[@bikkiikun]

@@ThumperLust : It just shows, that when you take talent based on merit rather than "good family", you'll have more than enough. But being 1941, it means it was pre-US-involvement, with budget cuts but high number of people who wish to participate nonetheless. Once the war started, I'd wager, they weren't "failing" talent so freely. Which is reflected in the use of women pilots for non-combat duty. As much as America (and its military) deserves criticism, it has always shined the brightest, when becoming "woke"... and it did so generally out of necessity, rather than belief. But then again, such cahange is welcome, regardless... at least in my opinion.

[@5anjuro]

I must say for a 1943 this is a remarkably modern-looking, even futuristic pistol. Such a flat, low-profile, angular silhouette didn't become mainstream until 1980s (HK VP70, Glock etc - especially reminiscent of HK P7). I'd also believe that the low bore axis, combined with the fixed barrel and (presumably) low recoil from 8mm made it potentially quite accurate.

[@_Wiseguy7]

The Hamada pistols seems to be one of the most well built Japanese handguns during the war.

[@commandplay]

I know right, it looks much better than the Type 14 Nambu

[@Autobotmatt428]

Also not as well known as there other pistols

[@Autobotmatt428]

@@commandplay And the type 94

[@troy9477]

The removable barrel on the Hamadas is a nice idea. It makes cleaning easier and prevents the grunge from falling into the frame during cleaning as a result. Great video as always. Thank you

[@allangibson2408]

It would also make barrel replacement due to wear really easy and simplify manufacturing.

[@SovietWomble]

Very interesting watch.

[@bobrobrules]

I bet you're here from reddit.

[@SovietWomble]

+BigBob145 I am indeed. A thing on Reddit said somebody had found a Hamada Type 2 Pistol in his basement. This video told me exactly what that was.

[@GREGALBU]

damn

[@SgtKOnyx]

SovietWomble wait... dang

[@mr.andrew9171]

Nice to see another one of my favorite content creators on such an educational channel

[@Vulf_Faolan]

"Our ships are being sank left and right, our cities are being bombed right and left, and here we are rejecting a new tiny piece of military hardware because the creator isn't prestigious enough."

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

Imperial Japan in a nutshell.

[@GoredonTheDestroyer]

"Some yahoo just made a rifle that blows our Type 99 Arisaka out of the water!" "Really? What's his name?" "Iunno, Pederson or something." "Well... We can't accept a rifle without Major Yato knowing it..." "Just tell him it's been rejected." "Good plan." (Meanwhile, at the office of John Pederson) "WHY IS NOBODY ACCEPTING MY RIFLE?!"

[@airplanenut89]

GoredonTheDestroyer your comment deserves more likes.

[@jazzmaster909]

Guess who lost that World War?

[@prd6617]

japanese sense of pride.. sometimes its pain in the ass... having a pride with own achievement are good but if it hinder to accept that there are other that can do better are just dumb

[@ootdega]

The lesson to be learned here is "Do not fight a class war while you are fighting a world war."

[@av0-cad03]

Also (unrelated) do not have a military branch war while fighting a world war. Your army and navy will not be as effective if they're busy fighting eachother

[@nutz4gunz457]

Major Yato dislikes this video.

[@hfarhanhamdan4981]

and all his little officer gang

[@Terabit3]

the Hamada truly is a beautiful weapon

[@AAAF556]

In the white, the holster must have been a quart can of motor oil

[@I_will_pet_your_dogs]

That's a pretty little pistol. It's got some interesting lines on it.

[@TreyWait]

It's probably the most 'modern' looking Japanese WWII pistol I've seen. I'd love to know how it handles and what it's like to shoot.

[@commandplay]

I know right, it looks much better than the Type 14 Nambu

[@Slickisonrick69]

Hey Ian I just wanted to say that your videos really have been helping me through some pretty hard days sometimes man because you are just so calm and cool and I really love the videos man keep it up

[@2pac4lyfe420WEEDLORD]

+david mick don't shoot up any schools :D

[@Slickisonrick69]

Haha man nah not like that kinda stuff lol just been stressed recentley but it really has gotten better lately

[@SgtKOnyx]

David McCormick Hope your days have improved!

[@peepsbates]

Just saw this 6 years later. Hope things have improved, king.

[@dreamingflurry2729]

They also dumped stuff because they didn't want to "share" (more like surrender/give) it with the Soviet Union and other powers...one such "dumping" was the destruction of the 3 I-400 Submarine-Aircraft-Carriers (!) that the US didn't want the Soviets to know about!

[@faterevelation]

whatever unit got those pistols over the nambus are damn lucky. Those nambus are horrendous.

[@cariboupetepeterson3711]

Love the History you deliver with your videos. Outstanding job.

[@later2672]

Agreed. Complete and understandable.

[@Surv1ve_Thrive]

Many thanks Ian from Kent in the UK. All your work is really appreciated! You really bring to life how each weapon tells a story of politics, science, geography etc. Which is what fascinates me. I've used the L85, SLR/FAL, Lee En and a few others myself. Please do keep up the good work if you are able to as it is a real pleasure to many. Cheers, Nick.

[@_ArsNova]

If they were indeed delivered in February 1944, and provided they just didn't sit in a warehouse until 1945, sunk while shipping is the most likely explanation. Immense amounts of Japanese shipping was being lost by 1944, and US bombing of Japan didn't begin until early 1945.

[@nickciereck6751]

This is the sexiest WWII Japanese pistol I have seen

[@connormclernon26]

Nick Ciereck that’s not exactly a high bar to beat

[@boomerisadog3899]

By far the most modern looking and it probably looked much better before the army made their changes.

[@kotarouasagi9022]

貴重な拳銃ですね。 It is a valuable Japanese military pistol.

[@megalith7796]

十二 this says jyu ni 12, instead of the factory symbol? yes? was gun jesus wrong?

[@KincadeCeltoSlav]

Thank You again for Another Fascinating look at Weapon History, GunGuru Ian!

[@TheJames2929]

I absolutely love all your videos your channel is one of the best informative firearms Channel on KZbin. I Love watching every day at lunch thanks for all the great content keep all the good work :)

[@fattywithafirearm]

looks better than my type 94 nambu. I still like the looks of my type 14 better. if I had the money I would add both hamada pistols to my collection.

[@raccooncitysurvivor7746]

shoutout to reddit user that found one of these in his basement...

[@SomethingNewEveryDay]

Thank you for making these great videos. Its really interesting to see these unusual guns and more so interesting to hear what you have to say about it. You don't know if any original drawing exist of the pre altered design?

[@poppacross79]

Looking at that pistol I see design elements of the Jimenez (Jennings ) line of pistols. the fire control group appears to be a lot more soldier (idiot) proof than the widely produced SNS and the dovetailed barrel is just fucking sweet.

[@commandplay]

Nice pistol! Such a rare find.

[@kamikazemelon787]

Wow I've never heard of these before. What a beautiful little pistol!

[@christianterrill3503]

Man I would love to own one of those. Looks so pretty and modern for such a old design.

[@RPM340]

-Gets done saying how there are no spare parts left for an ultra rare pistol- "Now guys, lets take it apart!" Ian is great

[@mistermanji]

Such a cool looking pistol! All of those Japanese pistols were so swoopy looking.

[@claudiodiaz9752]

The "+" symbol looks like the number 10 in Japanese. I'm sure Ian have good sources indicating this is the manufacturer's sign, but most people that read Japanese would read it as a 10 and therefore "Model 12".

[@chrismesamote2898]

I really enjoyed the story behind this gun

[@timm4499]

i wonder if there are any paperwork from when the guns were captured (approval to keep it and send it home) still exist. it would be interesting to see if all the survivors came from the same general area or if they were captured by members of a single unit

[@joshuamarvin7400]

Would be interesting. I'd really like to know if they were captured/surrendered/claimed on the Japanese mainland. The unfinished guns might have been sitting in an ordinance department facility as patterns/reference models(for the printing of manuals and whatnot), and hastily handed out to guards or conscripts when U.S. invasion seemed inevitable.

[@alb8758]

Just as Ian's pulling the slide off it looks like a straight piece of wire pops out and you can see it on the table, about 1" long. Only just noticed it on a recent rewatch

[@kreigwulfe2679]

If you were put in charge of creating a new sidearm for the Imperial Japanese that had be chambered for the 8mm Nambu round, and to be within the realm of the technology in use by the start of World War Two, what aspects of other designs at the time would you take to create your design?

[@ProphTruth100]

bro your wording made me think I was about to write an essay.

[@thegoldencaulk2742]

Where does RIA get those green felt display stands? They look nice

[@drmaudio]

It has weathered the time very well for never having a finish.

[@thebeatleshelp5834]

Beautiful space age vintage pistol

[@stanfordwillis4841]

The japanese, not unlike the french for instance, have that touch in a way, you see one you're like : "Oh that's french" or "Oh that's definitely japanese" without knowing what they are. Not always pretty, but they have that distinct look. Unfortunately we don't have a whole lot of japanese weapons here in France, we do have a few french weapons however, next thing I'm buy is a mr73 or a mac50 (if I can find one ...)

[@prd6617]

or other possibility, the army especially major yato ordered that the gun never shipped/issue to the troopers to save more face

[@connannbarbarin3033]

why didnt thy ask mr. Hamada what happened to all of type 2 ?

[@sengreaksmey6246]

My dad got one of those gun.the look is different from other pistol I seen.

[@benm5913]

Major Yato was a jerk.

[@Blueswailer]

+Ben M Well, it's not surprising considering that the higher a person is in any sort of rigid office hierarchy really(, like law firms/military personnel/politicians) the higher their probability of being a narcissistic Machiavellian opportunist or a sociopath. People like that don't really care who's skin they fleece if it serves their ends.

[@tehgreatvak]

I have a question, would the pistols have been shipped assembled to Torimatsu for finishing, or would they have been sent as a bunch of serialed parts? as far as I know, blueing an assembled weapon isn't really a smart idea? Also, could those guns having been issued to soldiers/guards guarding the Notobe factory be an explanation for why they were left in the white?

[@EchosTackyTiki]

Honestly, much prettier pistol than the Type 1 Hamadas. I can only imagine how it would look if it was blued.

[@afwalker1921]

I've written a series of alternate history/scifi stories in which the Hamada Model 2 makes a cameo, in a big way, providing the main issue sidearm for my fictional enemy. However, in this world it's available in three frame sizes, a blowback 7.65x17mm Officer's pistol, a larger blowback in 9x20mm Browning for tank crews and aviators and a locking 11.43x20mm (.45 Glock!) holster pistol for the Army's infantry. I know that's a mess, and that's how it plays out, but I'm old and I'm fussy and I can write what I like... snicker!

[@ajvanmarle]

In ancient Japan, they used people to test swords on. Perhaps they should have used Major Yato to test this gun.

[@mattcullen6109]

It's amazing how often ego overrules intelligence

[@811brian]

A message to Major Yato from a friend in China referred to as Mushu: "DISHONOR ON YOU, DISHONOR ON YOUR FAMILY...!"

[@elektro3000]

I'm always surprised to see such old prototypes in the white without a spot of rust, more so when they survived being on the losing side of a war. Did this one look like it had been cleaned of corrosion in the past (evidence of pitting, etc) or did it look like it had been kept dry/oiled/cosmolined and safe all its life?

[@gregoryclavell7847]

Cool bro,,,, hello from Puerto Rico 🇵🇷🇵🇷🇵🇷💪👍

[@carriertaiyo2694]

A "Mere civilian" lol

[@MegaRazorback]

I think in major Yato's mind he couldn't fathom the fact that a "Mere civilian" could make a functioning pistol even though the military themselves asked the same company after it had been told to make military arms for the war effort to make it in 8mm Nambu instead .32ACP for logistical reasons. I believe he felt that the only guns worthy of the Japanese military/airforce/navy were guns that came from well respected makers or even military personnel themselves, not some small company that had been commandeered into making arms for them.

[@UnclePutte]

@@MegaRazorback He was probably squeezing the producer for a bribe, too.

[@MegaRazorback]

@@UnclePutte Nope, the mindset for the Japanese military at the time this was made was "If it wasn't designed by a military officer then it's at the LOWEST point of consideration or not even to be considered by the board as no mere civilian has ANY knowledge of gun making, that's a "upper class" thing but if it came from a well respected gun maker then it does have some serious consideration" There's a reason that a lot of the guns in the Japanese army were mainly designs from military officers, they felt it was "better" that they design them than the civilians as it was a status thing as well.

[@Grimmwoldds]

@@UnclePutte More likely it was political infighting. The IJA was an absolute mess of competing factions, none of which answered to the civilian government.

[@Grimmwoldds]

@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine IJA: RIVALRY! Innocent bystander: With whom do you have rivalry? IJA: YES!

[@Rafferty1968]

Quite an attractive little pistol. Looks like it might be comfortable to hold and shoot.

[@kaoswylie5928]

what was that little sliver of metal that fell out of the slide during disassembly?

[@aaronkong8393]

Didn’t somebody on Reddit find one of these?

[@CaesarTjalbo]

+Forgotten Weapons You didn't have to keep your finger at the end of the slide when disassembling, to keep the striker spring from jumping away. Is that a difference between the Hamada and the Type 2 or is that because the striker (spring) is broken in this gun?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+Caesar Tjalbo It was because the striker spring was broken on this one.

[@partyrobbins4690]

I live near the Rock Island Auction house but I've never seen Ian McCollum.

[@nichevo1]

I note you didn't have to retain the striker spring on this model.

[@RukaSubCh]

Without a semi-auto disconnect can the simple blowback be fired in an automatic mode?

[@Carbon762]

on guns with out of battery safeties and semi auto disconnects, what would happen if that part just didn't get engaged for whatever reason, maybe some schmuck ground off the protruding bit for kicks, would the gun fire in full auto? I imagine the 1911 wouldn't, just because of the way the hammer is set up. But this gun is striker fired so it might be different, I don't know.

[@zekeriyyabaytar3389]

Teşekkürler

[@WAFFENAMT1]

Only WW2 Japanese pistol I like other than a Nambu, with winter trigger guard.

[@Hirameki]

Thank you for the video. I've always wanted to see real Type 2 pistol. てか、これで日本の自動拳銃はコンプリート？

[@abandonedanthracite5852]

If he was alive in the 80’s and interviewed, wasnt this gun brought up at all? Surely he would of had some sort of idea on the reasoning.

[@Marcus-rs6fr]

Can the hamada type 2 be chambered with .32 acp aswell?

[@Archenemy796x]

Did the recoil spring roll off the table?

[@Bidimus1]

8x22 242 Foot pounds energy comparable to the 9mm Browning Long at 240 FPE or 316FP depending on loading The .32acp 161 to 177 FPE

[@cheguevara3392]

Who knows, a lot of transport ships have been destroyed and they sunk, a ship with some hundred of those pistols may sit on the bottom of the Sea!

[@SNOUPS4]

A shame that the firing "pin" is damaged =(

[@zJoriz]

OK, stupid question: what is 'in the White' and 'Blueing'? Is it some kind of metal treatment procedure?

[@zakofrx]

zJoriz In the White is bare metal and Blueing is a metal treatment. If a metal gun is dark blue to black then it has usually been blued.

[@zJoriz]

I see, thanks!

[@LoneWolf_Cub_Ogami_Itto]

The .32 ACP works best as a concealed or suppressed Cosa Nostra Mafia tool.

[@shadowfoxcorp]

have you ever had a go with a ww1 Peterson device?

[@mirosawznamirowski8821]

The history of this pistol is in some points similar to Polish P-83 Wanad pistol. Also in the case of P-83 military men mingled in the process of construction and their fixes made pistol worse.

[@ohioman4646]

Were these more reliable than 8mm type 14s?

[@japa_koniu]

you broke the pistol!? what's up with that little part at the bottom of the screen visible at 11:35?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+japakoniu It fell out when I took the slide off. Not sure what it was for; but it went back in when I reassembled it.

[@japa_koniu]

+Forgotten Weapons OK, now I can rest easy ;)

[@connannbarbarin3033]

+Forgotten Weapons why didnt thy ask mr. Hamada what happened to all of type 2 ?

[@vguyver2]

+connann barbarin probably something he wouldn't know or be involved with after given to the military.

[@connannbarbarin3033]

V Guyver well if he didnt finished bluing them thy where at his factory so he must have know what happened if thy where bombed or scraped or dropped in harbor or if ship was sacked i sure thy would tell him

[@enigmakashman3501]

Forgotten Weapons Is it Type 2 or Type 12? The stamp looks like 十二式

[@CastilloinaSpeedo]

The coolest looking Japanese pistol of the period!

[@gmskurtz]

I thought all Japanese weapons had the Imperial chrysanthemum

[@rhinotiew1]

9:26 The 'Plus' was not a symbol. It is 'ten' in Japanese and Chinese... The whole thing is pronounced Ju Ni Shi (Japanese), Shi-Er Shi (Chinese).

[@jeffyoung60]

My guess is that the entire shipment of these Hamada pistols were lost when the ship carrying them got torpedoed by a U.S. submarine.

[@cathodez]

Those deer are creeping me out.

[@Blueswailer]

+cathodez They're checking Ian out. "This guy better not pull out a damn hunting rifle"

[@piRaufasertapete]

+Blueswailer wtf I have laughed the whole day about his.

[@cvry05]

9:33 word mean is '12 type'

[@joelcraig9803]

It looks like a Jimenez JA9

[@wadekirby8575]

Don't you think it is likely the first 50 pistols were sent out for troop trials? Perhaps they didn't get back for bluing before the other 1450 were destroyed in a bombing run or some thing?

[@UotoimanOyakyta-fp7gr]

日式的幻軍用手槍。 非常的奇跡手槍。

[@VicariousReality7]

Star equals an anvil under a road sign

[@bikkiikun]

The Symbol on the Safety lever is: 安 (Safe)

[@DanielSvensson666]

Cool.:D

[@dougdukes1039]

Does not look like the Japanese pistols had the mark of the chrysanthemum on them like many of the rifles were. Why is that?

[@CyLonFPV]

+Doug Dukes I would guess because these examples were unfinished and never got issued so they didn't get final inspections. Maybe the finished ones had a stamp but we will never know.

[@gretah3969]

Doug Dukes Pistols were often purchased and owned by a Japanese officer, hence not property of the Emperor, rifles on the other hand were owned by the military and therefore property of the Emperor. The chrysanthemum was the personal mon (crest or coat of arms) of the Imperial family, so it would be similar to European armies stamping national crests on rifles or the US stamping "US government property".

[@rickautry2759]

At 4:04, what's with that crude machine work around the trigger guard? I know that the war puts stress on the time to manufacture everything, but these are officer's sidearms - how embarrassing!

[@romeoechofoxtrot18]

beautiful pistol design to bad most of them probably got destroyed a refined double stack version would have been cool

[@justus1995]

some guy on reddit /r/guns just found one in his basement

[@airplanenut89]

I have to say this pistol actually looks nice unlike the other major Japanese pistols.

[@CaesarTjalbo]

"Cool, it's a war! Whatever." _ 0 _

[@advancedmonkey7702]

Type 2 ? but it says type 12 in Chinese on the side?

[@JM-et2ns]

that should be type 12, +=in Chinese and Japanese means 12

[@marcuschauvin7039]

My grandfather was part of the B-29s that were bombing all of Japan.

[@kevintrumpf4156]

What do U think is the simpliest semi auto in the world

[@mrkeogh]

This looks remarkably like a Caracal...