Japanese automakers shocked by BYD & Tesla manufacturing after teardown

[@electricviking]

For free tickets to the show use this link and one of the promotion codes below (if one doesn't work you can try another one) electricviking2024, electricviking_sydneyevshow, electricvikingsunday (Sunday only) : www.futuredriveauto.au/syd/ev24/comp-tickets Click here to get a free charger and installation when pre-ordering the G6 xpeng.com.au/?qr=726XPO The best solar company in Australia just installed my new solar system. Check them out here: www.resinc.com.au/electricviking

[@BK-pl3vy]

Can't qualify unless we get the promotional code

[@Jimbob-JBC]

What's the promotional code ?

[@michaelfung4629]

whats the promo code for free tickets? The site says complimentary tickets but are $40 at checkout.

[@LostInSpace-wc3zn]

@@michaelfung4629 electricviking

[@denskiz1]

Whats the promo code?

[@amgguy4319]

GM was able to get enough laws passed that BYD is NOT even coming to America. That's how GM competed with Citroen/Renault/Peugeot and Maserati. You know, Free Market competition.

[@joechughtai3155]

They are playing the same game pretty much every other manufacturing economy is. It would be ideal not to, but unfortunately that's not the world we live in right now.

[@GallAnonim-jx2cz]

Yeah, GM is worst. That's why they are dying in China and soon will bankrupt here. Basically all of their brands are all shit.

[@stevenpreston5619]

U.S, we represent democracy, freedom of speech, free trade, equal rights & we hate looting 🤔🤣🤣🤣

[@autohmae]

@@stevenpreston5619 also no racism and the American dream (look up social mobility US compared to western/northern EU countries)

[@patthonsirilim5739]

china does the same

[@lambertgiang]

If what the Japanese has claimed is true, then they shouldn't be worried about it at all. And if the Chinese EV is selling well in EU and not the Japanese EV then something must be wrong in what the Japanese has claimed. On top of that back in 2023 the UBS investment Bank Research Team tore down the BYD Seal and found that their component and the system is state of the Art and having a cost advantage of 25% over legacy autos. So, the Japanese Legacy Autos should not worry at all as the best selling Japanese EV is Leaf so far but is heading the blackberry or Motorola Way soon.

[@GallAnonim-jx2cz]

I don't think so. I live in China and people value toyota, lexus, honda for its reliability. Nissan however is in deep trouble.

[@lambertgiang]

@@GallAnonim-jx2cz Well, then why is all the Legacy Autos from Toyota, Nissan, Honda and Mitsubishi is collapsing?

[@jdmguy44]

​​@@lambertgiangWhat planet you on. Toyota are far from collapsing. They're making big profits. Likewise Honda are very profitable. Think you need to do some research.

[@lambertgiang]

@jdmguy44 Really, I am in the same planet as you unless you are from Mars. True, Toyota and Honda is Profitable right now but the Sales is sliding. Don't think Toyota's Hydrogen car in US is going anywhere and the biggest car market both are doing poorly,haha.

[@jdmguy44]

@@lambertgiang Again your talking rubbish! Toyota had the highest sales of any car maker in Q2 of 2024 in the US. Honda at number 3! Sliding sales?! Nope

[@ElfIng1986]

To acknowledge one’s shame demands courage.

[@Paul-b2s4j]

Sangyong is Korean not Japanese!

[@Discovery2024-rn8kn]

Another amateur mistake from westerners, shows they have no clue about Asia. It's like spelling BWM and calling Benny Mecedes

[@jayceh]

I'm shocked they're shocked But that's probably why they're 10 years behind.

[@Tommy2tone762]

Yes and maybe even further

[@markjonz]

Atto 3 has been out a while. Only now they dissassemble

[@jayceh]

@@markjonz gross negligence

[@Mrbfgray]

Sorry for Japan but not these companies. Let the legacies die it's healthy and necessary for capitalism to work. As a kid in rural America--we majorly relied on Sears, now largely forgotten and not missed, we got everything from car batts, tools to clothing/bed sheets to appliances to Xmas presents from Sears.

[@Rockall57]

30 years behind

[@ChickensAndGardening]

The Japanese have been studying foreign made products for decades...centuries. It's part of their culture, to learn and adapt the best of foreign science and tech, not to mention writing systems, religions, philosophies, music, etc. They lived for thousands of years in the shadow of the Chinese empire, after all. Now the question is whether they still have the humility to learn from superior carmakers in China (and Tesla), or are they suffering not-invented-here syndrome after decades of being #1?

[@yo2trader539]

Not really. Japan had 5 majors with China since the 7th century.

[@autohmae]

Not sure about centuries, but decades for sure.

[@yaulkwong3775]

China operates factory only in china, until they did the same at western markets like what Japanese car did. I don’t believe they can sustain.

[@FlowEven-yk4dq]

@@yaulkwong3775 Quite true, Tesla has factory in China, not the other way around.

[@dewgun8095]

I teach you something, all populations or cultures had taken inspiration or had studied ideas, concenpts from others. Your statement is quite ignorant.

[@goranmiljus2664]

INTEGRATED PARTS, so when a small part breaks, you need to replace 1/4 of the car?

[@leeedens9497]

The Japanese can teardown all the Teslas, BYDs, and Nios they want to, to tell them what the rest of the world already knows, the Chinese are ahead of them in the EV race, and it's not just the Chinese ahead of them

[@ChickensAndGardening]

I think they understand very well how EV's work, but their problem is high labor costs combined with a much smaller work force, and an attitude of "not invented here" and especially an attitude of superiority toward China that is simply no longer justifiable. I think that's why Toyota is much more open toward tearing down Tesla vehicles and expressing admiration for Elon Musk; a superior American company is a bit more comfortable than admitting China has surpassed them. But who knows? Maybe they'll get with the program and catch up, before it's too late. They've done it before.

[@guyphillips1476]

China quality job 0

[@wasupfool5692]

​@@guyphillips1476 Just like the United States. Pride in workmanship died in the US decades ago

[@doughartmann9272]

Makes sense for repairability, upgradability, along with component cost and manufacturing efficiency. It’s good well thought-out design work.

[@chantow8657]

They also bought and dismantle a Xiaomi SU7, maybe this is not reported in the western or japanese news, but the chinese they know.

[@michaelnurse9089]

That car is so heavily subsidized, that is why it is China only. I bet it costs $50k to make one, compared to Tesla $35000 for a similar model.

[@markbennett6658]

@@michaelnurse9089I’d guess the subsidies mainly went into setting up the production facility. I’ve seen a Xiaomi factory tour and the process appears extremely fast and efficient, possibly even more so than Tesla, with huge presses, few body components, massive amounts of automation, very little human labour and an extremely fast turnaround. So I doubt the actual production cost is significantly higher than Tesla’s.

[@andyfreeze4072]

@@markbennett6658 thats right, the chinese have studied hard and learned some valuable engineering lessons. For example, how many RAV4 variants are there and how many parts in the bumpers? Dont get me started on hybrids. Ice engine, Battery and electric motor. Dont tell me thats cheaper to make......

[@markbennett6658]

@@andyfreeze4072 it’s mad that legacy can make hybrids cheaper than BEVs. Jim Farley explained to Robert Llewelyn that their engine production process is so efficient and that the battery cost for a big battery for a BEV so high that illogically they can sill make hybrids cheaper. Symptomatic of their initial laggard mindset and Jim is actually smarter and more forward thinking than some!

[@mikel4879]

markb6658 • Oh...yeah. Jim Farley... Exactly like at the end of aprox 1800s when it was cheaper to give the horses hay and do nothing else about progress in traction technology. The guy of that time, at the end of 1800, giving hay to horses and praising the horse and carriage for being cheaper would also be the 1800's intelligent Jim Farley. 😏

[@Sunneal]

The reason why my friends and relatives bought Toyota or Honda before was that first, it was cheap, second, Japanese cars used a lot of plastic parts, which were cheap and had lower fuel consumption, and finally, they had high sales, and there were many places to repair cars and parts were easy to find.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

Hondas have never been cheap. Decades ago, I wanted an Accord. It cost too much, so I wound up getting a Ford Thunderbird for 15% less money. I bet the Accord would have lasted a lot longer... I drive electric now, never going back to ICE.

[@Mrbfgray]

For us it was value, durability and reliability. Toy trucks used to be 'bullet proof' mechanically, not great efficiency but wouldn't quit.

[@steinbauge4591]

then automakers started using plastic parts deep inside engines..

[@snookmeister55]

​@@steinbauge4591. Plastic pistons?

[@Animalwon]

Using parts shared between the different model cars is no longer solely the practice of American car manufacturer's - where car parts are often used in Trucks as well, and vice versa, even shared among various competing brands of car models. Toyota also does this. Why is this such a surprise?

[@autohmae]

I think the surprise is the extend of it. Sharing parts is fine, sharing a almost the full 'skateboard' was maybe surprising to them.

[@SpruceWood-NEG]

The main reason why Chinese cars are cheaper in terms of quality is that China has the world's only complete industrial chain. Chinese car manufacturers have access to all locally produced parts, from research and development to raw materials, production, and assembly. Comprehensive cost leadership. Subsidies? Is the subsidy in the United States less than that in China?

[@FrankiePo89]

The world's "superpower" cannot let go of their ego to accept that.

[@SpruceWood-NEG]

@@FrankiePo89 These European and American countries have no understanding of the essence of the problem. Or rather, they are well aware of where the problem lies, but unwilling to acknowledge the gap. Only slander, smearing, and trade barriers can be used to address challenges. This is not my impression of the United States and Europe, they should not be afraid of any challenges and face them head-on. What are they doing now? It seems like a conspirator hiding in the shadows.

[@tluangasailo3663]

@@FrankiePo89 any products is cheap when the govt subsidized $230 billion on it

[@FrankiePo89]

@@tluangasailo3663 And who will be stupid to complain about affordability?

[@autohmae]

The subsidies in China are larger to kick start industries, but I think US companies gets plenty of subsidies, they just found ways to give them as a bonus to CEOs, etc.

[@Beck-b9g]

EVs are easier to build and better. Plus you can power them with cheap local energy...no sending gas/petro money to foreign countries.

[@林振华-t4v]

That is right, upon reaching certain market size. The Raw material becomes close loop. Means you can keep the economic going by keep recycling the material. Aka lithitium. Being self sufficent is key to so call national security. They shouldve aware of that.

[@Anonymous------]

​@@林振华-t4v Agree with most of what you said. The EV is just alloy and plastic with the lithium the most expensive material, all other materials are just cheap alloy and plastic. Now that China can cheaply make microchips for EVs, the manufacturing material cost is very cheap compared to other factory expenses. As China is getting better at making EVs the cost per EV will become lower. Sooner or later EV battery technology breakthroughs will make battery prices very cheap. China has covered all the critical factors, no other country will be able to compete with China.

[@ABa-os6wm]

China mass assembles chinese EVs. Japan mass-disassembles chinese EVs. 🤣🤣🤣

[@Anonymous------]

@@ABa-os6wm Japan is nothing without USA's help, it was USA that brought up Japan from nothing to a rich nation because USA had needed Japan to block China, when USA started to switch to use South Korea about two decades ago, Japan was ignored. As we can see in the past two decades Japan had very little advancement to show, that is because USA gave technologies to South Korea instead of Japan. Japanese aren't as smart as they seem to be, nor the South Koreans, they think they are smart but in reality the technologies were given by USA, they would be nothing on their own. China is different, got the foreign companies to set up productions in China and learned from them, then the Chinese themselves use what they learned and also hire foreign experts to design and produce on their own, instead of relying on USA or other countries. Japan and South Korea never sent millions of students to USA to study, but China has millions of graduates returned back from USA in the past decades, those graduates are now the backbone of China's advancements.

[@Rhotz-ix8ll]

A large part of my next car purchase will be sticking it to Putin. EV all the way.

[@theinfralink6598]

I bought a 2023 RAV4. When I first started driving on expressway, I kept thinking my doors or windows are not fully closed because of the noise level. So much for Japanese quality.

[@hermesliteratus882]

This is disgraceful.

[@paolopetrozzi2213]

Chinese propagandists/trolls are even cheaper than Chinese EVs.

[@theinfralink6598]

I checked with the dealer. Apparently I’m not the only RAV4 owner who complains about this problem.

[@BigMac-50]

My parents 2016 accord has more wind noise coming in than my 2003 Hyundai Sonata.

[@michaelnurse9089]

Have similar noise experience in one of their cheaper models.

[@Lexie-mdi]

Google BYD ATTO 3 Cebu flood , it survived a deep city flood and continued to travel long distances in the island

[@lailai7919]

That's not fair. The flood was 1 meter deep in some area. ICE SUV will undoubtedly 'drown'. Plus the EV is way more heavy thus it can traverse easily in that condition.

[@donkeykong516]

China quality for you

[@freespeech8520]

@@lailai7919 You do know electricity and water don't play well, right? Everything needs to be sealed/waterproof for it to work.

[@autohmae]

@@freespeech8520 You do know a modern ICE car is completely dependent on electrics to run ?

[@Lexie-mdi]

@@freespeech8520 just watch that video

[@leonkernan]

It’s also about the software. I’ve been pulling apart the MG4 software and there are plenty of references to other models there. They use the software across the ZS, MG4, domestic Roewe models and even the Cyberster.

[@oldchev2850]

Geez Sam, I wish I could make it to the EV show in Sydney. We're on a road trip from Qld to S.A and back. We tried to rehash the trip and couldn't make it work. Hopefully we'll get to see you at one in the future. All the best with your family.

[@rbhebron]

I'm not sure why Japan, not just TOYOTA, have not done extensive research & development into EVs... They really don't need to wait for private companies to independently develop the technology.. The government shud realize that if Toyota & the rest of the auto industry does not pursue the development of EVs, it would impact the whole of Japan 's economy...

[@martinsoelby5902]

Integration of parts into fewer components translate directly to inability to repair. Cheap cars will essentially end up as being scrapped in 8-10 years. How is that helping the climate?

[@JCJW101]

Toyota uses Li-ion batteries in it's hybrids now and has done for years. They did use Ni-mh originally but that time has long gone.

[@brutusoftroy2810]

Government subsidies work

[@DrVinnieBoombots]

That's TAXPAYER subsidies Sparky.

[@brutusoftroy2810]

@DrVinnieBoombots you're not as correct as you think you are on that one...

[@DrVinnieBoombots]

@@brutusoftroy2810 And just where does the government get the capital for the subsidies either directly or indirectly?

[@brutusoftroy2810]

@DrVinnieBoombots the central bank creates all the money the government needs

[@patthonsirilim5739]

the great thing about ev is that you can share the battary pack motor ac units inverters and electricle control system you just have miss and macth them add or subtract what your trying to acheive from sports car to suv.

[@Hermit-Crab]

"I may have fallen way behind in EV technology and car sales but I must make sure that I continue to maintain a sense of superiority. Other car makers may have overtaken me but ultimately their products are still inferior to mine."

[@garneauweld1100]

If you just rode a Missouri mule to work you wouldn't be having these problems. It's the most reliable form of transportation on planet Earth.

[@thommccann1770]

There is a limit to what latitude a horse can live off the land. Sure it applies

[@kamome3813]

I'm surprised at welding spatter of ATTO 3.

[@Hakltz]

I’m not sure it’s obvious that it’s BS. At the end of the day, you CAN put lipstick on a pig. If the exterior and interior are beautifully designed and luxurious it doesn’t mean that the parts you cannot see have the same attention to detail and quality.

[@FrankiePo89]

Pig with lipstick will taste as good.

[@jagolago-bob]

Yes, that's what Mercedes have been doing for nearly 30 years. You only need marketing and some shiny trim to fool the public.

[@charlesjmouse]

So... what's the 'shock'..?

[@PD55_]

Maybe it's just me but it seems like we are witnessing some of the most dramatic positive shifts in human technological development. Including the ability to screw things up on a global scale due to ancient political dysfunctions, irrational destructive warfare, fragility of financial systems.

[@lolocemoipopo7537]

This is called the aquarius age. We are going from the pisces to aquarius in 2029. Old structures are replaced by new ones. People are bathed with positive vibrations because of the earth location according to its position in the galaxy. But it is not without problems and difficulties.

[@andyfreeze4072]

"irrational destructive warfare" you prefer revolutions? have i got some cake for you.

[@adamnealis]

"I don't think that the parts..." This should be verified. Did the BYD teardowns address this? What were the findings?

[@NopWorks]

Thank you Toyota. Good to know that the hand crank windows, the manual transmission, and the ancient tape/CD radio you sell on your cars today are more premium & of better quality.

[@ChickensAndGardening]

What Toyota cars still come with cassette? I'd love that.

[@firefighter4443]

…wait… an auto maker still makes a car with manual windows and manual transmission?!?… WHERE!?

[@karoltakisobie6638]

Toyota doesn't sell cars like that in Canada for close to 10 years.

[@andyday6665]

Why don't they follow Sandy Munroe? He's been explaining this for years

[@hvxcolors396]

Not so many japanese people watch youtube.

[@autohmae]

Language and cultural barriers.

[@hadtobe4502]

OK Haruto, the show's over, can we put these cars back together again.

[@林振华-t4v]

Nani?! 😂

[@Bognostrokulum]

I cannot understand how legacy automakers fell for the same mistake IBM did many years ago and not realizing that having hi quality hardware is a plus, but it is the software that determines how fast and more important, how problem-free things will run.

[@WJV9]

IBM got beat by cheap H/W that could run the same software as IBM since they all used Microsoft products.

[@autohmae]

A large company often has a very different mindset than a small company trying to innovate. And they seem to be almost mutual exclusive.

[@steak5599]

BYD and Tesla both manage to reach Economy of Scale to bring price down, is really a simple concept. Making Core components in house also helps, while other Automakers have to source their Batteries from likes of Samsung or LG.

[@SparkySho]

Bs byd is NOT PROFITABLE

[@crawfish-le7cz]

@@SparkySho BYD's gross profit margin has just surpassed Tesla last year, and is still going up while Tesla's is going down.

[@kaasmeester5903]

Tesla achieved a great cost reduction by questioning the established "wisdom" of buying standardized components from external companies like Bosch. Obviously for a lot of components it's still not worth making them in-house, but in a lot of cases like stuff for the drive train, climate control and such, you can achieve better integration at a lower cost. Tesla famously did that with the cooling systems in their cars. Another saving that other automakers seem to struggle with is: don't build your EVs like IC vehicles. It seems attractive to look at the car as a "platform" on which you can offer both IC and EV options, but it adds to cost. EVs can be a lot simpler if you build then as an EV instead of a platform. But the biggest advantage of Chinese automakers is cheap labour, and an absolutely massive (hidden) subsidy on battery production. The Chinese government wants to dominate the world EV market and they will do everything to make that happen.

[@FrankiePo89]

​@@kaasmeester5903 Chinese labor ain't cheap no more, that's why you see foreign manufacturers trying to shift out. Massive "hidden" subsidy is good for buyers, who in their right mind would complain about affordability? Domination? Every other manufacturers/ companies/ countries/ governments aim for it.

[@kaasmeester5903]

@@FrankiePo89 Subsidies are good for buyers until you find that it has killed all competition. Or they'll have bought the competition. In the long run, that is very bad news for country and consumer alike. As for companies operating in China, there are several considerations. On the plus side: cheap labour, a very strong and innovative tech sector, good infrastructure for manufacturing, acess to the Chinese market, and the ability to move very very fast if you got the regulators on your side. The downside: regulatory and political considerations, logistic challenges, concerns over economic and political stability, industrial espionage. For a long time, the labour cost in China and access to that market were low enough to offset the disadvantages of operating in that country. But the problems in China have increased... and the rising wages mean the savings of labour costs no longer offset the downsides... even if Chinese labour is still the cheapest. That is why companies are moving out. But the advantage in labour cost for Chinese companies remain.

[@BagmanJohnJo]

To be fair to Toyota, they've been using NiMH for reliability and research, but for a number of years now Toyota have been using more lithium based stuff

[@DjFonzii]

Hey Sam... you keep mentioning free tickets to EV show, but either link is missing or doesn't work (from previous post) still showing full price.

[@panatteri]

I was about to make a similar enquiry.

[@aljose3312]

Same here can't see the link to free tickets?

[@Aldob1973]

I tried electricviking. It’s worked 😊

[@aljose3312]

@@Aldob1973 Thanks worked for me also

[@DjFonzii]

@@Aldob1973 hey nice that worked. thanks champ

[@litestuffllc7249]

The Kiel Institute for the World Economy reports, BYD has received at least $3.7 billion in direct subsidies from the Chinese government:2020: BYD received around $239 million in subsidies, 2022: BYD received around $2.3 billion in subsidies;2018-2022: BYD and a cumulative total of just over $3.7 billion in subsidies. In that time they made about 1 million BEVs; without the subsidies BYD would be losing nearly $3500 per BEV. They did not yet publish figures for 2023, 2024 is not over. BYD made a small profit w these subsidies. China has 93 surviving 100% BEV makers; all billions in debt; losing money even with subsidies.

[@FrankiePo89]

That's very good of their government as well as the manufacturers. Those subsidies are not kept with the elites but actually flowing down to the end users as well as foreigners. They are wonderful people.

[@litestuffllc7249]

@@FrankiePo89 That is one perspective. Lets say you are an honest fish seller; and you remove poison and infected fish from your product you sell to customers; but the Chinese compeditor doesn't to under cut you. Then the Chinese government gives them billions to run you out of business; not just in China; but your home markets. Would you feel that is wonderful Frankie? That is called dumping; it is illegal. Right now with Tesla (non Chinese) one of the few BEV maker making money they can't charge dumping yet; but they can raise tarriffs which the US, Europe and Canada are doing.

[@FrankiePo89]

@@litestuffllc7249 The millions of people in the targeted market will be happy with the -dumping- affordable cars. In uass, few hundred thousands are in the auto industry, but did you figure out how many millions aren't in it and have to pay exorbitant rate to own a made in uass cars? Yeah, you'll lose a few hundred thousands job in the auto industry. Move them to farming, everyone need food.

[@thefakewilliam]

Wall of text just to be sour grapes 😂

[@XkMeng]

Unlike the shameless United States, China's subsidies are targeted at industries rather than companies. As much subsidies as BYD receives, Tesla can receive more.

[@Ray20499]

"Democracy for the EV cars now! 😢 FREEDOM for EV cars! 😊😂😅

[@jjsmith4829]

they user fewer parts and these parts are used in multiple different models

[@PropanePete]

That’s nothing new. For example, a great number of VW parts are also interchangeable in the Audi and Skoda.

[@jsanders100]

Nissan could be world leader, must be kicking themselves

[@chrisfox9263]

Nissan would have had to follow Carlos Ghosn's plan on EVs. Nissan is clearly NOT interested in the genius businessman's strategy, even though Carlos saved the company years ago.

[@林振华-t4v]

​@@chrisfox9263fully agree, Carlos has the vision. He is not only turning 1 company around, he turn mutiple companies around through out his career. Not alot of people have this type of track record. The whole fiasco back in 2018 feels more like a coup than actual legal action against corruption.

[@yo2trader539]

@@chrisfox9263 He's just a parasite and thief wanted in both France and Japan.

[@chekkalarajkumar2556]

History repeating it's self😊

[@castletown999]

I have often wondered if EV would wind up like the early days of Personal Computers (PC). Anyone (like Dell) could buy the chips , motherboards, power supplies etc. and put together a decent system and sell it competitively. Why wouldn't EVs go the same way? If you go down that rabbit hole, you have to ask: Who will make the components? Like PCs, the hardware parts like motors and batteries will become commodities, almost certainly Chinese. Who will be the Microsoft of EVs? Tesla? Interesting to think on... Perhaps we are seeing the beginning of that with the Chinese vendors.

[@林振华-t4v]

Yeah, why not... That is something worth exploring...

[@bobwallace9753]

You can make your own EV. People have been doing that for years, mostly by converting ICEV bodies. But you won't be able to get anywhere close to as good as a well designed, well built factory EV. Remember those homebrew computers? They didn't fit in a notebook, tablet, or phone.

[@castletown999]

@@bobwallace9753 True. But that is exactly what companies like Dell did. Perhaps we will see a lot of car companies who just assemble parts from China.. I wonder...

[@bobwallace9753]

@@castletown999 Take a look at how complex really good EVs are and how tightly the parts are assembled. Remember how much unused space there was in an old desktop?

[@autohmae]

Apple thought the same and got lots of ex-Tesla people but failed to come up with a product.

[@robertblair8395]

Not wise to bet against the Japanese. In the late 1950's Toyota took a couple of cars to test in States, particularly on American freeways (which didn't exist in Japan at the time). Shockingly, the damn things couldn't get up to freeway speed (the Japanese didn't realise that the car would have to accelerate to 60mph going UPHILL, up the on-ramp). Ten years later Japanese imports were decimating Detroit.

[@deansmith4752]

ICE cars have hardly changed in 100 years with regard to the drive train, electrical and electronic engineering has developed at a breakneck pace. Putting electric vehicles together allows the innovations applied to other systems to affect the drive train with the rapid advances that other devices have seen.

[@External2737]

I will disagree, ICE cars between 1972 and 2000 evolved dramatically. Then the pace slowed. EVs can have more commonality to cut costs. They are innovating fast as the repackaging allows that. This is analogous to the switch to front wheel drive or small diameter drive shafts that allowed massive improvements in interiors.

[@robertcampbell6521]

Internal combustion hasn't changed that much because it works and has the track record to prove it, EV's are fine around town but absolutely useless on long journeys

[@External2737]

@@robertcampbell6521 Actually, if you only book stays at hotels with chargers, Teslas are now easier to road trip (excluding national parks). I had your attitude until summer 2023 when all my friends with Tealas stopped taking the ICE on road trips. Other EVs vary.

[@RumperTumskin]

How do they build it so cheaply? Government subsidies probably

[@FrankiePo89]

And the magic is that those subsidies are flowing down to the end users, unlike those in the west where the elites pocketed it.

[@steinbauge4591]

One problem with Chinese cars is that paint, rust protection is made for a mild climate without any road salt or any extremes, this has proved an issue in Russia with the wholesale adoption of Chinese cars after 2022. This is an issue with many of today's cars - it has not gotten better at all, rather worse. After all, is all this new tech needed? The purpose of a car is to get you from A to B. I have a 1977 Escort where if I need to I can repair everything myself. It is not bricked by minor errors. It still does the job.

[@Dieu_regne]

"However, some designs are not perfect, and many people think that the waterproof performance of the on-board battery is not sufficient", "their views on quality are different from those of Japanese manufacturers."

[@25Alpha]

Hi Sam, I can't see the link for the free EV tickets. You only have the link showing a $10.00 discount

[@litestuffllc7249]

Mass manufactured vehicles are 90% done by robots; very little is gained by labor differences. Design can cut manufacturing costs if you combine parts together; but that also makes the long term cost of repair higher and in some cases impossible. The main reason that there are price differences between Chinese and Western makes is China has recieved near 1/3rd trillion in subsidies from the CCP with the intent of dumping vehicles below cost to gain market; unfortunately for them dumping is illegal; and the US, Canada; and Europe are putting high tarrifs on Chinese vehicles as a result.

[@jetli740]

subsidies how about give us a figure example how much byd receive in 2022 to 2024?

[@JohnDoe-t3h]

based on my own opinion: japanese car manufacturers repeat the history of nokia corporation in mobile phones, when tesla was first launched they laughed, when hyundai (south korean company) reverse engineered tesla and made their own ev, they told the world that hybrid and hydrogen is the future, when more and more companies in china who make ev and successfully sell them like pancakes in europe, asia and southeast asia because they are cheap but have decent quality, and more and more ev conversion kit are being sold in the market, now, central japan economic and trade bureau (under meti) just tried and struggled and became a copycat of "munro & associates" (they have stripped down many ev brands and models since years ago). it is to late and to little efforts.

[@mikel4879]

"...not a lot of demand to see what's in a Toyota BZ4X. I think we all know the reason why..." 🤣😂🤣😉👍👍

[@llee4225]

I think it is mainly a (older) BYD platform.

[@Proware1]

What is the promo code for complimentary tickets?

[@Aldob1973]

Electicviking

[@edal3375]

The same as Mazda..same motor in 3 or 4 cars and 6 in line in two of them, simplify and lower the costs...

[@Jimbob-JBC]

I can't find the free tickets , it says $35 each

[@continental_drift]

The Japanese manufacturers just had to ask Sandy Munro, if they didn't know how to build vehicles at a lower cost.

[@bastogne315]

Did they find semtex in the battery pack and cheap hungarian pagers???

[@galleyo1648]

kudos

[@davedyer3654]

Likely government subsidies?

[@bentaxelrod]

B-ZED not B-ZEE ?

[@denispelletier4960]

In order to know the real cost savings made by Chinese car makers, you need to back out the subsidies they receive from the Chinese gov’t. once you know the real cost of the vehicle, you can assess the cost savings in real terms.

[@mickmack9333]

I have to say that at the moment BEVs are just not a good investment for me. I live in a big city, charging at home is not possible, BEVs are too expensive, and most important, BEVs are far too big and too heavy. What i need is a small car having a range of at least 500 km. Im an electric engineer myself and once the right BEV is on the market i will switch over. But at the moment its just not practical and affordable.

[@flea41]

If they where that confident in thier own product - they would never have bothered ripping down their competitors cars...

[@incognitotorpedo42]

ALL carmakers tear down the competition. It's a standard practice in the industry.

[@External2737]

Failing to tear apart a competitor's car is myopia. Toyota thrived early on by tearing apart a Mercedes and realized they had to improve the basic structure. EVs are only competitive if very efficiently built.

[@Mrbfgray]

If they were prudent they'd done it sooner, TOO late now.

[@yo2trader539]

@@Mrbfgray I recall watching articles of Tesla dismantled over 10 years ago.

[@georgepappas4628]

What???? This is a common practice that all manufacturers do.

[@mydogsbutler]

China has as many engineers as US, Canada, Australia, Germany and Japan... combined. The huge numbers of engineers allows them to quickly automatate their factories.

[@SparkySho]

……… to build fool cells

[@stefan2796]

To build mobile crematoria?

[@StephenButlerOne]

Oh the tables have turned. Just a few years ago it was the Chinese photoing and running a tape measure over everyone else's cars.

[@R3350-u2l]

In Japan, more than 70% of electricity generation is thermal, so even if we switch to EVs, our contribution to the earth is very small. Hybrid vehicles, which can immediately improve fuel efficiency by 40-50%, have become the standard, with hybrids and PHVs accounting for just over 50% and the remaining 40% maintaining a share of gasoline vehicles. EVs account for 1.5%. Due to the design of expressways, EVs are not practical, and are only in demand as second cars. Large-scale disasters such as earthquakes are expected to occur in Japan. During power outages, hybrids and PHVs can be used as power sources, but EVs will simply become an obstacle.

[@nrich5127]

It should be noted that this parts integration also means they are NOT repairable - if there is a problem , the car is scrap. There exists in North America ZERO dealer network for Chinese auto makers - that means ZERO service - ZERO warrantee - ZERO history of customer relations. So when your Chinese car breaks and you can't get it fixed ... who are you going to complain to ? the Chinese Communist Party ? good luck ... The cheapest product on the market is not always the best buy ... there are other considerations. The history of many Chinese products is ... cheap to buy but after the warrantee is over , no parts , no technical help , it goes to the landfill. They have concentrated all their efforts to build a product at the cheapest out the door price , service is not part of their business plan , it is an after thought. Let the buyer beware.

[@Jacknjellify531.]

Japanese knew this was coming but they didn’t do much. Toyota just doesn’t want to change.

[@林振华-t4v]

Wrong, they are ramping up on EV. Toyota flat out flying to their oversea branch and to the public. In their home in Japan, they scraping up every single possible talent on ramping up EV. I know, because when I travel to Japan, all the ad I recieved from my phone is local hiringing agency looking for EV engineer, prodiction workers. They do that via 3rd party agent, so it can hide their intend in plain sight. But what I see, I can almost smell Toyota is trying to catch up. Make no mistake.

[@whiteknuckles]

Sanyo? Their battery is of higher quality than BYD? That's a laugh.

[@rhino127]

why you don't say anything about casting?

[@KennyL1]

All those comments indicated the BYD and NIO have value engineering well from the Americans. And it seems the Japanese have lost it.

[@stefan2796]

Toyota has chosen the right strategy: building hybrids.

[@stanmitchell3375]

Batteries leak electricity when they get wet

[@jasonquito9156]

less cost to the employees

[@user-ps6un5jk4x]

Chinese quality always reveal itself over time. That's why I drive Toyotas. ❤ from USA

[@keitha.1888]

Where is China getting the raw materials to make the batteries?

[@undisclosedthai]

Since they still like fuel cars and still think fuel cars are much better, there is no reason for them to be shocked by a very ordinary Chinese car manufacturer like BYD. All world-famous racing games are not yet recognizing this brand/company. And don't worry, the quality of their product is much superior (than the Chineses). It's a very good selling point. I want to ask them, if you are really shocked by it, can you please put it in your racing game(s) first?

[@stevehartley7504]

They learnt from Tesla. Interchangeable parts manufacturing automatic production brings costs down. Sell like original Windows, cheap to corner market pile em hi sell em cheap

[@Ronick-Q-46]

Fewer parts more expensive to repair, best just to scrap them from new sounds good to me.

[@ironpaiste]

Japan's reverse engineering. 😂

[@jonwick7635]

they be scratching heads like monke now

[@jumboegg5845]

They are cheap because of heavy subsidisation from the Chinese government, both directly and indirectly. Indirect subsidization is anything the government does to keep the cost of living down -if you have low bills at home then you can afford to work for a low wage at the car manufacturing plant.

[@chrisfox9263]

Great idea. Clearly 5-10 years too late!

[@electricviking]

Appreciate you watching!

[@joeycad]

Toyota uses nmh for it's cold weather performance/ superiority over previous lithium batteries availablem. Chinas has average warmer climate than japan

[@jokkejens]

Just sold my Chinese electric car (Nio) due to some parts of the car is irritating and quality not as expected.

[@ommanipadmehung3014]

Love pure EVs

[@Ask-a-Rocket-Scientist]

The Chinese supply chain is the difference.

[@ISuperTed]

Shocking

[@jonsavelle1122]

The China Observer channel here on KZbin has reported recently that Chinese buyers of their domestic EVs are not happy. They cite premature rusting, water intrusion, component failures, difficulty of repairs and many other issues. BYD is said to be particularly bad. I do not know how accurate this is but I think it is worth a look by The Electric Viking.

[@obama8888]

The China Observer is a fake news channel. Anti China channel all the way. US 1.6 billions for anti China news is creating many such channels.

[@KimLee-n4c]

The China Observer channel is devoted to bashing China. Like Serpentza's.

[@jetli740]

you get ur source from China Observer then you are totally mis inform. they are anti china channel, they find a single case and push it as all are the same. take the mate xt a tri fold phone, they said it you can only make call when open in tablet mode... now that is total BS...

[@ching-yi2007]

China Observer is a anti-Chinese propaganda website run by a Chinese cult.

[@ching-yi2007]

China Observer is a propaganda website run by a cult. I would not put much credence to them.

[@jameswalker7899]

One gets your point that high volume sales and China's manufacturing genius are responsible for success of Chinese EVs. But somehow you overlook other, less flattering, factors, such as high governmental subsidies and lower worker wages. And frankly, one understands that Chinese EV quality leaves a lot to be desired (see ex. podcast China Observer). :)

[@geothermopudge8475]

Yea cause tricity just come outa the wall, right?

[@Rick-wy4od]

Chinese EV manufacturers can make an EV for US$100 if the CCCP subsidizes them enough. It's in the Chinese Governments interest to bankrupt all legacy brands by a (temporary) race to the bottom. Once you destroy your competition, prices can start to rise again.

[@randybull01]

That's really stupid on Toyota's part to use NiMh batteries in today's cars. That is how you lose your market share.

[@ElfIng1986]

Toyota is making cars so complicated like the Swiss making watches. Cars are for the general public, not for a few collectors. Like Apple watches killed the Japanese watches, Chinese EV killed Japanese brands. Who’s to blame? it’s obvious.

[@KKMan20xx]

Why aren't these US and Japanese who tear down Chinese EVs and other products not called revered engineering?

[@autohmae]

It is called reverse engineering, but for some reason with certain objects like cars we give it a different name.

[@OppoR-xf3nc]

So we have come to this day when Chinese Cars are being dismantled for study 😅

[@qwertyzxaszc6323]

If they want to be seen, means it's a prank. That's why oficials are not worried. They want attention and the offcials are not having any of it. They shinned them on. The "Do not feed the trolls" strategy is the best if you don't want to encourage it.

[@tesla_tap]

I supect the problem has been with legacy car makers taking an ICE design and shoehorning in a EV motor and battery using as much of the ICE parts bin as they can. You get a very inefficient expensive EV, that is not competitive to Tesla or BYD. Only a ground up design will be competitive, but it's too attractive to keep using the same junk used in an ICE car to "save money". The result is predictably poor sales.

[@SparkySho]

Gudday mate I wanna be first!!! if I ain’t first I ain’t gon gaf HA

[@olymak]

Just check the "quality" of one of the "premium"Chinese brands that had a go at nurburgring...screams quality, or maybe are the brakes falling apart LOL