Japanese Punctuation: How it REALLY works. Lesson 90

Punctuation marks are used in Japanese but the way they work is a little different from what you might think.▼Links▼
Sentence analysis techinique (maru is vital!) • Lesson 34: Understand ...
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[@donconore]

A rarely (or never before?) covered topic on KZbin - nice!

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Only really mentioned it in passing. I should perhaps do soemthing.

[@amarug]

Cure Dollys theories are SO powerful, that even if they were all wrong (whatever metric were to decide that shall not be discussed), they would still not lose ANY of their power. I was about to give up on Japanese until the almighty algorithm got me here about a year ago. Now I am literally having hour-long discussions in Japanese only and having the time of my life. Thank you so much for saving something for me that was so important and dear to me. You gave me the confidence to just start speaking, because for the first time ever I felt like I had a bit of a clue of what I was really doing. In fact, your videos are SO powerful, that via your guide, suddenly all other Japanese teaching videos become useful as well. Because you can see past the bad (or lacking) grammar discussion and understand what's really going on while at the same time taking in tonnes of examples and "ways of saying" by Japanese natives for example. Or simply just add the missing info in your head and benefit from the extra content. Thank you so much ❤

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you so much for your kind words! There is no "right" and "wrong" in grammar. Grammar is not the source code of language but a set of attempts to describe it as an existing phemomenon. The best model is the one that works best for one's purpose. So there are better and worse models rather than "right" and "wrong" ones. My models are made for the purpose of helping foreign learners to understand Japanese. There may be better models for other purposes, but I am only concerned with that one purpose.

[@joefrank1437]

Hour-long discussions? Like with spoken Japanese?

[@psycling2130]

I was always confused about the side marks that go next to words I encounter when I read manga. This video cleared that mystery up!

[@NaruAndy10]

Hello, where do you read manga in Japanese?

[@johncameron5453]

This is very well done explanation on how the language structure works. Especially on how its elongated. This is a very good perspective honestly as I have noticed in a few other languages can emphasize either a noun or an adjective or just be very basic in structure for communication. Even in English it always describes the noun and has small nuances. But Japanese I did not know it was a modification language and the quotations. This is something I need to note down. I know I asked this awhile back. Thanks for covering this.

[@hunter858]

Your videos have absolutely changed my life. You turned what I thought was an impossible dream, learning Japanese, into something achievable and I can’t thank you enough for it. Have you studied any other languages?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

I am so happy to have helped you. Good luck on your Japanese journey. がんばってください。 Modeling a language is a major job and I don't model any other than Japanese (very few are as logical as Japanese so it would probably be harder).

[@daviddamasceno6063]

In portuguese we make questions using intonations as well, so usually I don't get confused by that. But I did worry a lot if I was using commas correctly. I kinda feel silly now ^_^*

[@theblackryvius6613]

So I see Sean (the Brazilian) is your favorite character in SFIII

[@elboniu]

Same in Poland

[@daviddamasceno6063]

@@theblackryvius6613 Yeah, I never actually played SFIII, but I think he is pretty cool :)

[@dryagan]

Wow this video cleared up so many questions I had! I couldn't grasp the logical usage of commas in Japanese and now I see why! ありがとうございますCute-Dolly先生

[@vanessameow1902]

流石ですね、ドーリ先生。ためになりました！

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

お役に立てて嬉しいです。

[@edge3220]

Some manga I look at never use a maru to end a sentence, even if the same speech bubble has two complete thoughts in it. Exclamation marks, sure, but never a maru. It used to freak out my English brain that's trained to look for periods, but the more I've gotten to know Japanese structure (100% all thanks to this channel, otherwise I probably would've given up on learning Japanese yet again) I know what to look for now.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

That's true of some English comics too. Some of them end everything with a ! or sometimes nothing. Fortunately mostly these manga are not presenting large-ish texts where there might be a problem seeing what ends where. In my experience where they do occasionally do that they do use marus (or in some cases !). Is that what you find?

[@wenwen128]

Thank you, this has really helped!

[@aocchan]

A very interesting lecture, thank you, Cure Dolly-sensei.

[@chicoti3]

It's worth noting that the ？ doesn't necessarily indicate a question, just a rise in intonation. It's very common to se it used in sentences that aren't questions like ママに怒られるよ？ or お前を殺すよ？ or その女風呂に沈めるぞ？ this last one is a common yakuza line so pardon the language.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Yes it's fundamentally a rising-tone marker, used primarily to indicate questions but not exclusively.

[@hata1499]

Good video! Very useful.

[@shikokan-master]

Thank you cure dolly-sensei! Have you done a video about たり?

[@ProvocativeSloth]

Ah, I was wondering what these were!『』Thank you, dolly! This week, I've been wondering about し, which I've recently been taught is a particle "used when listing reasons". The example given was of a shopkeeper listing the qualities of an electrical product. However, when I asked my husband, he said that he'd never use し as it sounded rather feminine to his ear. This wasn't mentioned in the book, nor by the tutor, so I'm not sure if his perception of し was subjective, regional thing, or a genuine example of 'gendered' language. He also chuckled at me when I called our dinner 飯 and not ご飯. Although I imagine broaching the subject of 'gendered' language may be a potential minefield; I believe if anyone can discuss historical context and present-day usages in a sensitive and matter-of-fact way, it's Dolly-Sensei. I'd love to hear your thoughts. [side request for producer Kokeshi: If し is discussed in a video, please can you include an いのしし with a bow in her hair. Thank you x]

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

I think there are a lot of grey areas in what native speakers consider "natural" (and the same would go for masculine/feminine) probably connected with region, age and even the particular family/group they grew up in. I remember discussing the (very standard) adjective-order rules for English (why we say "big black dog" and not "black big dog" for example), and got a surprising amount of variation and disagreement from native English speakers. "Well _I_ say that all the time". So its quite a tricky area.

[@charlesmanapat5418]

If a sentence makes use of 「」to quote, should it be followed by the quotation particle と? Thank you for this highly informative video!

[@chicoti3]

Yes and no, depends on what you're quoting, if it's a single word, like 「三良」じゃなくて「三郎」だ then you don't need to. But if it's a sentence then yes, always. You could also use って instead of と.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

That's correct. Quotation marks don't necessarily entail the quotation particle, but they don't displace it when it is needed.

[@Manuel-jr6op]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Random question -- I keep seeing online that you should use the plain form with と when quoting someone, but is this still true when giving a *direct* quotation? For example, if I wanted to say "Sakura said 'kore wa watashi no neko desu yo'" would I say …だと… or …ですよと…?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@Manuel-jr6op In speech and communicative writing one uses non-decorated Japanese (I don't like "plain form" because it is based on the idea that です・ます is "base Japanese" and it isn't. The non-decorated form is). This is because we are reporting what she had to say. It would not be impossible to reproduce her exact words complete with decoration but it isn't usual. In narrative, on the other hand we do write exactly what someone says in quotation marks. Generally speaking if we are actually using quotation marks we do use the exact words of the speaker.

[@Manuel-jr6op]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Thank you so much!! I really appreciate it :')

[@Soulskinner]

When I watched the video noticed that I've actually heard some things about these. But rather "some things" and there was lots of information, which I've never seen before (including "as a topic" variant). And all that time I was thinking that 『』is just cooler variant of「」. XD I wonder, is there any meaning in 〜 - which is often used in titles, at least, in titles of games. Sub parts of titles? (I'm not sure how these are called) I've noticed that sometime, 、- is used instead of は, or when addressing someone. In casual speech. But I'm not sure. Hm. But I've seen it even in textbooks. Another, but it's rather just fun fact. In Russian, commas are used much more intensively, and there are many more rules, than in English. Sometimes they even change the meaning of the sentence to the opposite, like in "Казнить нельзя помиловать" - "Can't execute forgive". "Казнить, нельзя помиловать" - "Execute, can't forgive", "Казнить нельзя, помиловать" - "Can't execute, forgive".

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Yes a comma can stand in for は (it is casual but might get used to represent conversation in textbooks) and I discussed that briefly here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZLQpWZ3dq98bK8 〜 is just a dash and can be used as freely as English dashes. The reason a wavy one is used is to differentiate it from ー which is the vowel-extender mark.

[@Soulskinner]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Thank you, got it.

[@1984Joby]

In your example about snacks what if you wanted to add 木曜日に to it. Would where you added it add context? Say I said 木曜日に市場で買って川に落とちゃったお菓子が, would that imply the candy I bought on Thursday vs adding it after the が meant Thursday was the day I dropped the candy in the river and the day I bought it was some other day before then?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Yes, that is correct.

[@ojiwankenobi]

Parenthetical expressions? Have you encountered commas as boundary markers for an “aside” or parenthetical expression?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Western (parentheses) are used but relatively rarely - and not usually to make parenthetical expressions. Commas don't serve this function either as they are just pauses. Occasionally western parentheses do mark a parenthetical expression. They can also be used for odd things like people's thoughts. The place they are most regularly used in the Western way is in translations of Western literature

[@deedanner6431]

The modification structure has been a big problem for me. Even if I identify the clauses properly, I still oftentimes misunderstand the overall meaning of the sentence in some way.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Did you watch the video I linked above where I guided us through a complex sentence? I ask because if you did watch it and are still having trouble maybe I need to make a video specifically on modification structure (rather than a walkthrough-type). I know you are intelligent and think things through carefully, so if you are having trouble maybe a lot of other people are too. Please let me know what you think.

[@deedanner6431]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 I just watched it again. It makes more sense to me now. I need to check my understanding through my immersion but a lesson on modification would definitely be helpful and appreciated.

[@deedanner6431]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Found this sentence in the wild: 年数を経てくすんで灰色がかるようになって少し好きになったが内装は相変わらず白が多い How I understood it: I have become a little fond of the years that passed quietly, seemingly tinged in gray, but as usual the interiors were very much white. But then I came up with: The years passed and it seemed to become dull and tinged in gray; I became a little fond of it but the interior was still very much white. That took me about 30 minutes :-(

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@deedanner6431 Good work! It's a difficult sentence.

[@bengarland]

What is the "B Engine"? 3:40

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Please see the first lesson of my course for this fundamental terminology: kzbin.info/aero/PLg9uYxuZf8x_A-vcqqyOFZu06WlhnypWj

[@praisemidir]

can you please help me understand what と andに stand for and mean 先生? i watched all your lessons and this sentence still confuses me.. 現金と交換に品物を渡す

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

に is the marker of purpose. Just as in 遊びにいく (go to play) it is attached to a noun - い-stems of verbs are nouns kzbin.info/www/bejne/laLNao2hdqhlqqc - 品物を渡す is surely very straightforward. "hand over goods" - を marking the direct object as always. "hand over the goods to exchange them for cash".

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@archbishop of pride natsuki subaru With, as in "confuse with".

[@mornon2394]

Can the brackets 「」 be also used for emphasis? Unfortunately I don't have a Japanese example at hand, but I got that impression in more than one occasion, and in translation I often see something like «We are “brothers”» where the characters are literally brothers, from the same parents: the quotes don't have much sense in English - where they seem rather to show a figurative usage of the word - so I was wondering if that could be something like 俺たちは「兄弟」ですから, with 「」showing emphasis.

[@chicoti3]

If you're reading vertical text that emphasis would be indicated by various dots by the side of the passage (it doesn't need to be a single word). 「」 are not used for that.

[@mornon2394]

@@chicoti3 I was thinking mainly about manga, where they weren't used to show dialogue, though I think I saw it in a short story; I'll see if I can find an example.

[@chicoti3]

@@mornon2394 漫画 obeys the same rule, it's vertical text after all. Perhaps you're seeing it used as a quotation but misinterpreting it as emphasis

[@mornon2394]

@@chicoti3 Ok, I found a couple of examples in which I'm not sure what the brackets are for; not what I had in mind, but it's a start. Both are from "Tokyo Ghoul": その代わり他の『赫子』より「スピードで劣る」。 『鱗赫』はまず「強力な強力な再生力」。そして独特な表面の作りからくる「一撃力」が強みだ。 In both these cases it isn't something someone said, it isn't direct speech, nor a quote.

[@chicoti3]

@@mornon2394 Like I said, it is a quote, you're just misinterpreting it as emphasis. You see, I thought your quotes were a little funny so I went directly to the manga and behold, everything is either a quote or a made-up term (which also demands quotation). Let me correct your examples so it will make sense: 他の『赫子』より「スピードで劣る」そして重量のせいで少々扱いづらい。 Here 赫子 is made-up term and スピードで劣る is a quotation behaving like a single noun, it together with 重量 is the reason why they are a little hard to handle. 『鱗赫』はまず「強力な再生力」そして独特な表面の作りからくる「一撃力」が強みだ。 Same deal as before, 鱗赫 is a made-up term for the manga so it takes quotation marks and 強力な再生力 and 一撃力 are quotations, these two are the strong suit of the 鱗赫.

[@user-pt3ij9gv3c]

Nice video!! Thank you for always putting out amazingly helpful videos!! While reading manga and in real life I often come across じゃない and have a couple of questions regarding it. I don't think you covered this (at least in detail) yet. すごいじゃない！ すごいんじゃない？ すごくない！ As I understand it, すごいじゃない！＝Isn't it amazing! (Female speech) すごいんじゃない？＝I think it is amazing, don't you? (you are expressing your opinion and trying to persuade the other persons opinion to become the same as yours) すごくない！＝Isn't it amazing! (Similar to すごいじゃない, but not female speech, both males and females use it) Is this correct for the most part? The one thing that I am confused on is if すごいじゃない and すごくない really have the same meaning with the only difference being that すごいじゃない is female speech while すごくない is female and male speech. Thank you so much for the help!!!!!!!!!

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

I did a video on it here. Positive sentences with じゃない can sound feminine but you can make them sound more masculine by adding か. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qaCac4uFrLise7c

[@user-pt3ij9gv3c]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Thank you so much!!

[@user-fi8ud8sm6y]

i thought i read Japanese pronunciation good video regardless though

[@nollanoodle5697]

the videos are good but the audio is kinda off:(

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Mics don't seem to like me.

[@user-pc5kg3le7l]