Japanese Trials Gas-Operated Pedersen Rifle

/ forgottenweapons
The Japanese semiauto rifle trials of the early 1930s had a total of four entrants - Kijiro Nambu and his company, Tokyo Gas & Electric, the Tokyo Army Arsenal, and Nippon Special Steel. This rifle is one of the third iteration of the design from Nippon Special Steel. It is a design based originally on the Pedersen, but with substantial changes. It is a toggle-locked and gas-operated action with a gas piston that moves forward upon firing. It feeds from a ten-round detachable box magazine, which is unfortunately missing on this example.
In total, 13 of these rifles were made for trials, with 4 of them actually being tested (and firing over 100,000 round between them without any extraction problems, apparently). This rifle did have some accuracy problems, though, which would be fixed by its designer for the fourth and final trials, at which point it and the Tokyo Army Arsenal rifle were determined to be of equal quality - and then the whole program was dropped as the Marco Polo Bridge incident caused the Sino-Japanese War to quickly intensify.

[@triggerfingerstudios]

top tip from forgotten weapons: don't get in a gunfight in a cement factory.

[@polandull]

first?

[@WinstonKillDeath]

firydeth2 good to know

[@greggaldridge]

I work in a cement factory. Good to know this is not the gun for me. 😂

[@maxxvolt2672]

@@WinstonKillDeath q

[@phlodel]

@@greggaldridge I hink it would be OK as long as the cement isn't wet.

[@alexdemoya2119]

I spit out my coffee at "wet cement over the rifle while firing" Ah yes the constant battlefield threat of drunk construction workers wandering around

[@weirdscience8341]

I was just like why what a random test were they planning on conflicts in areas of wet cement i guess if a towns totally gone from high exsplosive and it rains wet cement dust could end up in the rifle if dropped only reason i can think of tbh

[@rampant_reptile1125]

I poured some wet concrete on a few Japanese while they were firing as well. They stopped shooting alright.... seemed pretty upset i interrupted their match tho.

[@Iceman-kr6df]

David ar-15/m-16/m4 are all very well sealed and blow a substantial amount of gas out the port when ejecting, so material ingress is very unlikely to occur

[@mjf4888]

Well it does happen fairly often on InRangeTV...

[@greyscaleb1537]

@@rampant_reptile1125 That was corny, off yourself

[@manicdemise]

One of the reasons I love this channel is the pure amazement factor of "here is this amazing gun...BUT this happened."

[@69MrMaster69]

When I started the video, literally the first thing I thought was "damn, that's a one gorgeous looking gun" and then the first thing you say about the gun is that it's "the least good looking".

[@exploatores]

+Matti Seppänen I Think Ian got it right, it looks like somthing drawn by a Child.

[@MrGregory777]

yeah that happened to me a couple of times with Ian. beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder

[@TheDrLeviathan]

I'm the same. it has a weird modern blockiness but a 1930's aesthetic at the same time, like something out of a movie or video game. Pretty cool, imo.

[@theirishnerfherder9587]

same

[@kainhall]

+Matti Seppänen while it does look steam punk to all hell....its also got a bunch of shit just sticking out/hanging off the gun. this next to an m1 garand....which one would you make fox hole love to?

[@crazyfvck]

Pretty amazing that this sold for less than $9,000, when the Japanese "Garand" that you reviewed sold for over $63,000. And there were fewer of these made too! :P

[@marshaul]

Because "rare" adds more value than "obscure".

[@LukeYount]

There are a lot more Garand collectors than obscure Japanese rifle collectors.

[@jwilder47]

also, from a collecting standpoint, this weapon is incomplete.

[@obviousgreyman]

Josh Wilder and non matching.

[@gregdaweson4657]

@@obviousgreyman tfw there were only 20, that thing should have gone for 20k

[@MultiDaneboe]

GLORIOUS NIPPON STEEL, FOLDED 1000 TIMES

[@theredneckbuddha2763]

3 Years too late but Japanese steel is absolute shit, it's folded multiple times to strengthen what little iron the Japanese were able to find. I might be wooshing here, and a joke might be going over my head, but if not then I'd have to say that Japanese steel is nowhere near glorious. The folding on Japanese swords is indeed innovative, and a great loophole, but the use of clay to strengthen steel and the diverse amounts of blade harness were all results of sandy pig-iron that didn't quite make the cut for forging. Japanese weaponry is very effective, rifles and swords are beautifully and gloriously made, but at the end of the day, their steel is ass

[@theredneckbuddha2763]

@@tl8211 Shit thanks! Sorry I wooshed a bit there

[@karnukabiyu2909]

Hey, I recognize that face!

[@trent8678]

1 like 4 u

[@BigWheel.]

@@karnukabiyu2909 [jazz music stops] You do?

[@7411y]

'Least good-looking'? ...I guess I disagree because I like over-engineered mechanisms that actually work.

[@MenwithHill]

It's has a rustic, blocky experimental charm.

[@theirishnerfherder9587]

I love how the front shrowd/stock looks

[@vaclav_fejt]

+PossumTally Looks a bit like MAS-49, but sleeker. And toggle-locked.

[@theirishnerfherder9587]

+Václav Fejt yeah I noticed that too even the magazine's are similar if you can find an image of one with the mag. the one in the video is missing its magazine

[@vaclav_fejt]

@@rhodesianwojak2095 I don't know more about that rifle than is said in the video.

[@MasterJawata]

the kanji (if I saw it correctly)on the gas-block reads "high(大), medium(中), low(小)" from top to bottom.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+MasterJawata That would make sense - thanks!

[@ackunkun]

+MasterJawata I'm Japanese and You correct. large(大 DAI), medium(中 CHUU), small(小 SHOU)

[@NormanMatchem]

+Inesophet Really is cool when a firearm has such an adjustable gas system. The SVT40's gas system has something like 6 different settings, but it requires a tool to adjust, I'm as to say.

[@jeffreyreardon7487]

+NormanMatchem 5 actually

[@NormanMatchem]

Jeffrey Reardon Close enough, didn't bother to take mine out to check.

[@dragonbutt]

>Pouring wet cement onto a rifle while it is firing as a means of testing Welp, time to start pouring wet cement onto everything at the SHOT show :D

[@2damaxmr2]

+Dragon Butt (ThatsNoMoon) AK system would probably be the only system that would pass the test.

[@dragonbutt]

2damaxmr2 Nah. The AK would probably break its shepard crook pin before the cement even touches the gun :P

[@DattMuffinMan]

+2damaxmr2 Almost every gun that has mud poured directly into its internals, let alone wet cement WILL cease to function as intended. The AK is no exception.

[@dragonbutt]

DattMuffinMan There is however alot of room in that AK, both for cement to fit and for it to drain back out of xD

[@DattMuffinMan]

Infact I think that the AK's loose tolerances makes it an worse weapon since mud can seep in through the bolt/reciever. Perhaps their are better custom built versions with tighter tolerances but if we are talking about the general AKM you'll find out on the field, most of the time its crap compared to other options one could think of.

[@pricklydingus8604]

Ian just can't stop finding the weirdest guns to look at. ...Just when you think you've seen everything.

[@jeremyluteran505]

Eric Brown and that’s why we love him lol

[@ZoidFile]

I think the riffle looks awesome. Reminds me a bit of the French MAS-36.

[@patrickcrosley6179]

I'm thoroughly surprised by how good this rifle is. Good thing they never adopted it!

[@elcidgranada3549]

+patrick crosley It would have been a nightmare to deal with if 80-90% of the JIA had this.

[@juanmfernandez5123]

The Arisaka is more cool to charge

[@twilightparanormalresearch186]

But it would have been bad had they had guns like the garand that could fire off rapidly (yes they had machine guns don’t give me that

[@Canadianvoice]

Would have been living without the shadow of Communist China like we do today if Japan had this. And If America didn't interfere with a war they said they wouldn't in the first place.

[@pempotfoy6206]

Accuracy and reliability was more important than rate of fire, that's why bolt actions were used till the end of the war. Even if all japanese infantry had Garands, that wouldn't have changed the outcome of the war.

[@vguyver2]

It might look clunky looking, but this design is beautiful.

[@vguyver2]

troubledturtle2332 hah, that's true!

[@MrBioniclefan1]

+troubledturtle2332 agreed

[@Derail07]

Japanese steel is always beautiful!

[@tverdislavrolensky3597]

I absolutely love this Pedersen style action. It looks so bizarre that it's cool. I wish some version of it had been adopted so I could have a chance at actually affording one.

[@genericfakename8197]

So I'm just getting into the firearm scene (finally got disposable income, yay!) and I've spent the last year-ish getting to know my SKS inside and out. Seeing this rifle apart really blew my mind with it's elegance. Time to track down a Type 38 to scratch my itch for imperial japanese engineering.

[@juliogonzo2718]

The sks is an underrated weapon. It's ugly, simple, cheap, and tough. I have three, one I've never shot. The two I have shot I would trust my life to

[@delvercetti8930]

The designer seemed to really know what he was doing when he designed this one. I love the way that it looks, and the action is very unique.

[@szedlacsektamas3959]

When the army enters the trials whit their own semi rifle, everyone be like :NANI?!

[@Otokichi786]

Listening to Gen. Nanbu's trials and tribulations earlier, I also figured that the Imperial Japanese Army was going into World War II with "drawn swords" and "single shot rifles" in hand. Imagine what "The Pacific War" would have been like if British Commonwealth (and American troops in the Philippines) came up against a "Japanese gas-operated, 10 round, self-loading rifle." The 1903 Springfield-equipped-U.S. Marines might have ended up on the losing end during the Guadalcanal landings. But the IJA brass never "saw the light" on the ground, even with "five-shot rifles."

[@chnghemeng2845]

Sounds expensive and would probably wouldn’t have resulted in many rifles, considering it’s predicted production cost was roughly 2x that of an Arisaka

[@harryjoe860]

@@chnghemeng2845 if you had just two of three of these in a squad of ten men it would have magnified their force projection. A ten man squad with a machine gunner, two semi auto rifles and 7 rifleman would have been more effective than what they had done.

[@chnghemeng2845]

@@harryjoe860 I mean a type 89 grenade projector would also do the same no? But yes I understand your point.

[@harryjoe860]

@@chnghemeng2845 its all speculation, Japan made a lot of bad choices, not adopting this rifle in limited quantities was only one of hundreds.

[@NatsuKashi00]

The three characters on the gas regulator are 大, 中, and 小, which mean "large," "middle," and "small," respectively. I don't think any of those three cuts off the gas entirely.

[@nmarbletoe8210]

thank you

[@ceiling_cat]

So like on lighter

[@adammfanning3654]

You seem to always do a great job in presenting information on weapons I didn't know existed. Looking forward to more.

[@doubleT84]

It's awesome that we get to see systems that are usually locked up, hidden, in private hands and/or just forgotten - as the channel name says, of course. Thanks for showing us these precious guns and their very interesting systems. But that's only what got me interested in this channel in the first place: I stayed and subscribed because of the tons of interesting information that comes with it. Thank you.

[@rlee431]

That was awesome. I find early mechanical designs so interesting. Thanks.

[@obviousgreyman]

The irony of the rifle with a magazine lock missing it’s magazine is incredible haha.

[@t.c.mcqueen2350]

Love this design and history. Thank you Ian.

[@hussar1681]

I don't know how about others, but this rifle isn't ugly to me at all. And the story behind it is one of the more interesting as well I think. Anyway, I think that the design gives away it's functionality and ruggedness, so I'm sure that many shooters would call it a beauty not the ugly one. I would say "shame it wasn't adopted" but perhaps it was for the better, looking from our modern perspective.

[@carriertaiyo2694]

+Norbert Buszka (Hussar) I agree!

[@7hart2]

Luger meets MAS 36: I love the look!

[@ThatGuy-a48]

Lol yeah

[@tobiaszistler]

Exactly what i tought too

[@CaptainGrief66]

I'm so happy you had the chance to put your hands on this rifle, it's probably my fauvorite vintage semi-auto rifle. -I actually made a version of it out of legos a couple days ago and now you posted this video, it's amazing

[@BurnTheNuance]

Jesus, are children watching these videos?

[@CaptainGrief66]

+Carolus Rex Heh...sorry, but I was just happy to see a weapon that I really like been on a video on this amazing channel. -The complete name of this rifle is "Shisei Type-Hey Manual" if I'm not wrong.

[@deepbludreams]

+BurnThePope0514 I am a a 35 year old Veteran, spent ten years in the army, had two tours of duty and you know what, i still play with Legos.

[@ToastyMozart]

+BurnThePope0514 I don't really see anything that inappropriate if a kid were to watch these. Ian's not encouraging any violent behavior. And in the event such gross negligence occurs that a child gets their hands on a gun, they will at least know which end is dangerous and what part not to touch to prevent getting their legs blown off.

[@CaptainGrief66]

Uhm well, I'm 15 and I like firearms and I just play with legos in my spare time, that's it.

[@yeungmankiu5539]

I never heard of this Japanese rifle before, great video!

[@mulletjocks]

Such a good story. Thanks Ian.

[@mikeblair2594]

ya know,i don't know if anybody ever told you this,but you sir.are a damn fine story teller.thanx

[@tammysilverwolf1085]

I've always loved the pederson action, I get why it wasn't widely popular but there's so much satisfaction in the way it sounds and looks when it's being worked by hand. It looks like it would feel so viscerally satisfying and mechanical. Like operating a car with a manual transmission.

[@nonameavailable4840]

this is amazing! thank you for sharing this with us.

[@Galahad993]

Least good looking? This gun looks badass.

[@cjchillax1771]

Belongs in a video game

[@Dragon.7722]

Glorious nippon steel!

[@420BulletSponge]

I learn something new with every video. I'd never even heard of The Marco Polo Bridge Incident. Thank for teaching me something new once again Ian. :)

[@420BulletSponge]

I admire him immensely, to have survived the war against overwhelming air American superiority alone is an astounding achievement.

[@rileyl2911]

I think it looks pretty cool :P

[@charlesinglin]

+Riley Leppington A little bit Steam Punk.

[@jeffcamp481]

Impressive and quite frankly I think it is a handsome rifle with amazing engineering!

[@tomsimpson5295]

Aside from the .276 Garand prototype, this is probably the most interesting rifle you have profiled, in terms of its mechanical design and execution. THAT is the one I would have bought at the auction, and of course, it was one of the cheaper ones, too...

[@qownson4410]

Did more research, this gun later became the Type Hei LMG and the Type Hei rifle but a VERY LIMITED number were built for service, but it was used in the war afterall. AFTER the national army one was abandoned, so this weapon did see another day, in two other variants infact.

[@rikter22]

I really like the look of it and how it works

[@jeffreyreardon7487]

Excellent video, cheers

[@multistability9783]

Really cool Japanese rifles in this lot really appreciate learning about these.

[@raymondgill9796]

Fascinating video thank you.

[@Destichado]

This is a gorgeous mechanical device. Look at all the machining! Amazing weapon. I wonder what it would have looked like in full production.

[@DanielSvensson666]

Very nice and informative video as always Ian.:D

[@remko1238]

I think it's a beauty !! with typical japanese style details. Thanks

[@j.mangum7652]

I'll bet that if all the numbers matched that rifle's opening bid would be a quite a bit more. Very interesting piece, Ian.

[@cadetjimenez232]

Thank you for the history lesson.

[@Landsknecht89]

beautiful rifle

[@jonbush7467]

As if the Japanese army didn't do enough ludicrous things in Manchuria.

[@LordGingerBerry]

jon bush wow. Comment of the day, probably week

[@ackshually404]

@Heyward Shepherd it was Japanese territory at the time

[@dzonbrodi514]

@@ackshually404 username checks out

[@AM-hf9kk]

I kind of like that mag drop safety. Can't tell you how many times I've accidentally dropped a magazine from an AR because that's where my trigger finger naturally goes on EVERY pistol. That one extra little movement to reload wouldn't bother me at all. It's obvious that a lot of thought went into this rifle. While it's a bit blocky on the outside, I think the internal design and machining is sexy. Definitely world's away from many trials guns that barely worked and couldn't interchange parts because they look like they were cobbled together at midnight before the test began.

[@RanchBoss]

thanks foe the upload

[@Inferi_Sententia]

I really like the way it looks

[@kkaayynniinnee]

Whaaaaat Ian that gun looks really cool! It's not bad looking at all. It's super dieselpunk.

[@tomt810]

This is a really neat gun!

[@thelaughinghyenas7962]

Absolutely super cool!

[@MadSpectro7]

Man this rifle is just plain cool.

[@ProfessionalNoodler]

That big square back on it reminds me of the Browning A5.

[@ZGryphon]

"No surprise: It stopped working." Ian's delivery is often worth the price of admission all by itself. The research is just icing. :)

[@notnotagoodguy9600]

It might be just me but I love the way it looks

[@simonp347]

The markings near the gas regulator lever says in Kanji: Large- Medium- Small. You sure the middle position is gas cut off?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+Simon P Nope, the markings are correct. I couldn't read them, and was speculating.

[@greggaldridge]

Really enjoyed this vid!!!!

[@AAAF556]

Kijiro Nambu toggle lockuru actsheenu!

[@AAAF556]

+Pepsimintsteak I rack disciprine!

[@MrBlindcat1]

+The Black Smegma YOU RACK DISCIPRINE!

[@VeryQuestioning]

you are of shame famiry, is "toggoru"

[@Brawler_1337]

Taguru raku akushin!

[@drbichat5229]

Looks like a very nice rifle

[@I_will_pet_your_dogs]

I quite like the look of this rifle. It has a certain no-frills elegance to it, perhaps 'industrial' is a better way to phrase it.

[@andymckane7271]

Interesting video! Thank you very much.

[@chapiit08]

It took only 16,497 machining operations to produce these rifles.

[@reignorshine.]

I think it looks awesome

[@lbochtler]

I for one love the looks of this rifle

[@iwaya2010]

Nice video !

[@MvMArcher]

Guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[@neiljborja]

I don't know much about Japanese small arms, but a lot of the little details of this gun seem well thought out. I like the captive pins for the major parts, something that even much later military guns didn't bother with.

[@alexr.7929]

I wish they made reproductions of these, very cool. but probably would never catch on the commercial market.

[@nicflatterie7772]

Impressive mechanics!

[@neiloconnor9349]

Thanks -- good history.

[@AxeGaijin]

Put a banana or drum mag on there and it wouldn't look out of place in Fallout 4. :) Wished the Fallout devs would watch your channel, we could have so many cool designs in the game if they did.

[@TroopperFoFo]

+AxeGaijin Check on the Fallout Nexus. There is some really good weapon modders that are adding some cool gun designs to the game. You will have to search thru the amount of nude and boob mods thow. If you don't have the game for Pc Mods are eventually come to consoles so I imagine quit a few weapons mods will be included.

[@AxeGaijin]

+TroopperFoFo Thanks, but I'm well aware of Nexus, I've been getting my mods from there since the Morrowind days. Holding of for now on the weapon mods though, most are still buggy or have animations that don't work ATM. Pretty sure modders will fix that soon after the GECK is released.

[@calebdavis1323]

+AxeGaijin yeah all the reload animations are fucked and all the guns have this weird "step" on the fore end of the rifle.

[@Bearthedancingman]

AxeGaijin would love if all game makers would be educated on how guns work and look. Some designs in games are so weird that I refuse to use them. Hahaha.

[@jackandersen1262]

RocketGurney to be fair, the assault rifle was originally intended to be only for power armor use. However, the BAR chambered in .45 ACP (also known as the combat rifle) is inexcusable.

[@SkorpyoTFC]

This rifle's got an incredible history.

[@MountainGuerrilla]

Those deer are looking at the rifle with dubious regard.

[@SuperMarshall2009]

Thank you for another informative video. Curious why the Japanese did not revisit the design during the Type 4 Japanese Garand trials.

[@peanutbutter5402]

The AK: finally! A worthy opponent! Our battle will be legendary!

[@tangero3462]

This thing is as unique and inventive as it is a work of mechanical art. It's a shame we'll never have a novel piece like that for the general market

[@Ctulhu911]

This gun is so cool! Japanese engineers are so good at details, very well thought and put together, totally like it.

[@chronovac]

"Japanese engineers are so good at details" bruh, have you seen the type 14 nambu pistol, it looks like its made out of scrap metal and works about as well, you can even fire the damn thing without touching the trigger

[@yangcheng-jyun8542]

well,I'm pretty sure you were talking about type 94,not type 14. Type 94 is like STEN of the pistol,really not focusing on manufacture quality,and probably not combat effective,but it do all the jobs IJA want it to do.

[@humansvd3269]

@@yangcheng-jyun8542 Type 14 was just as dangerous. TFB TV showed that

[@yangcheng-jyun8542]

@@humansvd3269 That video has some problems in it. The AD probably was caused by hangfire.

[@MeowMeowDeathRay]

Such a perfect gun

[@Tugboatpb]

I love this gun. I hope to own one someday.

[@theotherwaldo]

Coincidentally, I'm reading Hatcher's "Book of the Garand" right now, which discusses the competition between Pedersen and Garand in the 1920s and '30s. An interesting read... .

[@beargillium2369]

Makes one wonder just how many rifles Japan could have made with all the steel that went into just one Yamato or Musashi

[@electronkaleidoscope5860]

I actually really like the look of the thing

[@dreadfury47]

thats actually a really cool looking gun

[@sjoormen1]

Jesus, Ian, is there anythink you don't know. I really enjoj your videos, there is much to learn.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+sjoormen1 Oh, there is a ton I don't know...

[@MrMisterDerp]

Damn I was really hoping that this was gonna be the one, I’m so tired of hunting around for a rifle that can take a cement shower and run

[@ooloncaluphid]

I think it's kind of gorgeous in a certain way, and it has that characteristic sound that finely machined steel parts make when operating. If somebody would make one in walnut & blued steel, in .308 with side-mounted or scout type of scope mount, it could be pretty awesome, though it would probably be pretty expensive and nobody would actually buy it.

[@bookkeeper1995]

Sigh, I do love toggle actions....

[@hornmonk3zit]

Man I wish we could check out the Type 64. I wonder if there's some way we could import it as a blank firing or prop gun and reverse engineer it into a civilian version. That rifle is so dope.

[@Jesses001]

I actually think this rifle looks rather nice. Something about the vents and slight blockyness and the way the forward part of the stock meets up with the receiver.

[@AnimeSunglasses]

I love this design, especially the disassembly. I wish someone was making them in .280 or .308 or something...

[@FMFInnovations]

He keeps saying it's an ugly rifle, buuuuut it's not, REALLY great machine work, and beauty in function. It's really nice.

[@mannyowlstein8144]

Its crazy how similar the setup is to a mas 49.

[@Shadowlogic420]

its actually not as ugly as i thought it would be, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. i love it.

[@marvinb3956]

thats an awesome idea of the gas piston system. I never thought about this ingenious change, so simple and you can save much weight of the operating-rod. and the russians came up with and double piston system for recoil mangement...... tze ....

[@Waffenschmiedinx]

I kind of like how it looks