Jay and Stu talk Doctor Who: Revolution of the Daleks

[@JayExci]

Hello everyone! Here's a playlist of our full series of streams where we go through the whole of series 12 and much more! kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zl7Gfpl_l8qjeNE

[@carealoo744]

Any idea as to how long your Chibnall video would be... or as to when it might come out now 🙃

[@inionanbas615]

it's a minor thing, but it's really broken: The weeping angel ignoring that this prison somehow captured it, they decided to... 1. place a creature that can sap energy in energy cuffs inside an energy cage that separates it from potential victims it can use to regain strength. 2. place a creature that can replicate itself via eye contact in a space where it is surrounded by people who can make eye contact with it, leading to the deaths of inmates and the creation of more angels that can run loose around your prison. 3. place a creature that can replicate itself by being observed by security cameras in an area under constant surveillance, meaning yet more angels can be created to run loose around your prison. I mean good god whoever is running this prison has a death wish. Obviously it's only in there for fan service but it doesn't work on any story level and really gives me no faith the weeping angel story in season 13 will be any good.

[@Not_An_EV]

@@tattieverb265 "ok buddy you're under arrest." _Looks away for handcuffs_ _just starts walking away_

[@gooper3644]

TBF the weeping angels have hardly been the most consistent aliens. Despite being my favorite doctor who enemies, I can’t even fault the writers for not being able to follow all the rules that were added/removed. Still though, pretty sad the doctor just teleported out so easily, I was hoping the plot would have a prison riot or something, so that the presence of the dangerous aliens wouldn’t just be fanservice

[@TheJadedJames]

I haven't seen the episode. But from the Matt Smith era, I was under the impression that it isn't actually common knowledge, even amongst the well-traveled, what the exact limits of Weeping Angel abilities are. In Series 5, even the Doctor himself didn't know about their ability to take control of people and cameras. If even the Doctor didn't know about that, it is seems reasonable that the average person or even organization might not know much more than "it moves whenever you aren't looking at it"

[@inionanbas615]

@@TheJadedJames That absolutely true, and it would be unreasonable to assume the prison would know about the abilities of the angels when very few do. That being said, from the way it’s presented in the episode that angel has been in the prison for a while, certainly long enough to do some major damage. For it to make sense that the prison STILL doesn’t know what it can do you have to assume: 1. That the angel has made no attempts to escape by draining the energy of the cuffs, cell or other inmates. 2. That the new angels created by the surveillance have made no move to feed/escape/free the others. 3. That no inmate has made eye contact with the angel at any point and been killed by the angel inside of them. Again, you could assume all of those things, which would suggest that the angels are biding their time/ massing their strength as some kind of plan, which would be really cool to see. Unfortunately, The Doctor’s presence ruins those assumptions as even if the prison doesn’t know about the angels, she does, and should be seriously concerned about the fact she’s trapped inside a facility infested with one of her most dangerous enemies. She isn’t in the episode though, and is actively dismissive of the angel that could murder her and everyone around her. She doesn’t even attempt to warn the prison overseers or other inmates. As it stands there’s just no way to reasonably assume that Chibnall didn’t just throw in the angel as fan service without thinking about it any further about how it would actually work in the story. (Honestly thought, you can’t hold it against him as Moffat was doing the exact same things and he INVENTED the damn things.)

[@TheJadedJames]

@@inionanbas615 Damn, the Doctor knowing about the Weeping Angel, and not telling anyone that trying to contain one of those things is a death sentence is pretty crazy

[@thatoneguy4452]

TARDIS's has consciousness, right? So the Doctor killed a TARDIS.

[@EditedAF987]

What’s worse is that a Timelord has to telepathically connect to a TARDIS in order to pilot it, so she probably felt it’s agony as well

[@arkworthy8594]

Not only is the TARDIS ordered to a slow and agonising death, but presumably there was still that woman from the timeless child in there. We never SEE her leave, at least.

[@judeconnor-macintyre9874]

isn't that TARDIS the past version of the current TARDIS so shouldn't that create a paradox

[@EditedAF987]

@@judeconnor-macintyre9874 no it’s not, it’s just a random TARDIS the Doctor took from Gallifrey to allow her friends to escape. The console room layout is different to the first doctor’s which suggests it’s a different model and TARDISes are locked onto Gallifrey’s present to prevent interference with it’s history

[@Jedi_Spartan]

Yeah but The Doctor's done stuff like that before? By applying the fact that each TARDIS have a consciousness suggest that actively installing a randomiser a form of imprisonment or enslavement, or did the Doctor's original TARDIS still manage to override it?

[@judeconnor-macintyre9874]

10: four Daleks could take over the world. Cyberman: there are five million Cyberman you only have four, four Daleks could destroy five million Cyberman? Dalek Sec: we would only need one 13: let's summon a Dalek warship to Earth.

[@squibble311]

lmao

[@nifralo2752]

7 dose basically the same thing

[@MaskofMandarin]

In regard to the 'stabbing' metaphor for the Chris Chibnell era, It runs very closely to the analogy I've had in mind: Series 11 is the equivalent of a person who terminally dull, lacking any bombast, verve or charisma. A complete social vampire, who walks into the room only to suck all the life and energy out of it. Series 12 is what happens when someone actually tells them that they're terminally dull and they're responce is to procure a hand gun, fire it into air while repeatedly shouting "Am I interesting now, is this interesting enough for you." My hope the series 13 is the process of the person being restraind and led from the premises in cuffs.

[@concon09090]

Spoiler: it was actually the terminally dull man holding a room full of people hostage with the gun, while ranting about how clever and charismatic he actually is, before executing a tortuously drawn out public suicide.

[@Thomaas551]

Cam someone make a link to it?

[@AniDiveReverse]

I like that i watched this episode, because i finally think about mistakes of someone else than me

[@henrychinaski8686]

Mood

[@bellabyers2929]

It’s honestly a good feeling lol

[@PrincessBouncyBall1714]

NOW, I want to watch it

[@greghawkins59]

The bit where the doctor gives Ryan and Graham psychic papers and they just say "oh, tah" just somes up chibnall who

[@TheWAYF]

Love the idea that the two of them are going to fight crime now, given all the nothing they each contributed to the Doctor's team. Episode 1 of Season 13 is going to have a Character Scene(TM) where Yaz says "I miss Graham and Ryan" (not paraphrased, that will be a direct quote) and it smash cuts to both of them lying dead on a pavement somewhere after they walked straight up to a minor alien threat and said "We know what you're up to, so you'd better watch out, cause me and 'im, we're gonna stop you".

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

@@TheWAYF They should be stuck in the Graske replicator tubes, now there's a duplicate Ryan and Graham somewhere in Sheffield.

[@Paccyd33]

Nobody: The Doctor when the Daleks fly into the TARDIS: Ha! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders!

[@mickys8065]

Good thing any one of the elite daleks didn't hack into the console and just... Stop the self destruct. Cause then the plot of like every story would then be pointless

[@JRHainsworth]

"In case you haven't noticed, you've fallen right into my trap."

[@jamesroby9064]

"emotional jingly keys" I'll be using this phrase.

[@EvilBobarino]

cant believe ian from utopia got possessed by a dalek then fucking died

[@eli_r_q]

3/4 of this episode is painfully expository set-up for the Defence Drone Daleks (which had the potential to be commentary on Police Militarisation and government surveillance). Then just as these Daleks turn evil, they are immediately removed from the story, rendering the entire drawn-out setup pointless, and it just becomes a meaningless Bronze Dalek story with a Deus Ex Machina ending. It's kinda a mess in my opinion.

[@ftumschk]

42:57 "This entire prison arc... should have gone full 'Heaven Sent' psychological" - Exactly what I was hoping for, but it was all done in a few minutes, during which time nothing interesting happened. A wasted opportunity.

[@phantomdriver2010]

A "Doctor locked in prison" two parter would be phenomenal

[@shyoss2671]

A time traveler locked in a prision with the possibility of calling themself for backup and help set them free is a beautiful idea for a episode

[@Slink1701]

Eventually, we'll run out of "The _______ of the Daleks" titles and then I'll make up some flash cards and learn to tell them apart

[@MrDarthT]

The spherical Dalek-like monster you described is literally the Toclafane from series 3. Which was also going to be the Dalek stand-in if the Terry Nation Estate wouldn't allow the Daleks to be used in NuWho.

[@jamma.77]

"I feel nothing." You and me both, Stuart.

[@lorcan0c]

(Just commenting stuff as I listen) 9:09 yeah Chibs does this a LOT, giving redshirt characters just enough traits that their deaths are "sad". Bonus points if they get a throwaway line where they say that they are gay too. The most morbid one goes to the guy in "Woman Who Fell to Earth" who was actively looking for Tzim-Sha (No I am not calling him by the jokey-joke haha meme name Chib has decided is funny.) His sister got abducted by the Stenza, and Tzim-Sha explicitly says the Stenza keep their victims alive in a conscious form of suspended animation. And since there's no scene of the Doctor going to rescue this person, I guess we just have to assume they're going to be suffering for the rest of time, or whatever arbitrary length of time they're kept alive as a prisoner for. Which could be decades, or centuries, who knows? Point is, by trying to make this 'more sad', it's just pointless sadism that goes unresolved. Also, side-note. The whole "Tim Shaw" thing? This is the same thing as what Jay pointed out in his "Hoops" review. It's not 'observational comedy' if you created the thing that's being observed, specifically for the joke. I don't find Tim Shaw funny, because Chibnall specifically wrote the name so that it could be this haha-jokey-joke. 22:59 Exactly, yet again, TV Who pilfers Big Finish hits for plotlines. Blood of the Daleks did it first and did it better. Do you think Nicholas Briggs, the Dalek voice, ever reads these scripts and goes 'Hang on, I know this one'. But he just doesn't bring it up, because he's become numb to it all by now? I hope he's doing okay. 30:50 Yeah maybe it's just me, this whole thing started with Moffat, but I am sick and tired of the 'The Doctor spends literal decades/centuries/millenia trapped or doing nothing or elsewhere off-screen and comes back completely unphased by it" plot points. The ONE story to bank on this correctly was "Heaven Sent" and even then it wasn't exactly that because of the looping nature of it. Just because you have an effectively limitless lifespan, doesn't mean you're immune to... changing as a person. Remember in "The Impossible Planet" when the 10th Doctor loses the TARDIS and basically has a minor existential crisis about the prospect of NOT constantly bouncing about the galaxy and having to be static somewhere? Or, since Chibnall is so eager to 'borrow' 8th Doctor audio stories, how about "Orbis"? Where the 8th Doctor spends 600 years on an alien planet seperated from his current companions, and when they find him, he barely recognises them anymore, and is acting completely erratic and different from his usual self, which is not just resolved and thrown away by the end of the episode either, it takes a while for him to go back to anything resembling his old self, and even then it's a change that's noticeable within his character. 58:19 yes, they reference the Holiday special multiple times. First there's a name-drop of "Life Day" (The Wookiee Christmas) and heck, the main character's rifle is directly inspired by the 'tuning fork gun' used in the cartoon segment of the special, which was Boba Fett's first appearance. 59:00 my only memory of the K-9 spinoff is... they're playing Fetch at the beach, and K-9 goes into the water to chase a ball. And fucking explodes. Like, he just dies the instant he touches water, in a big fireball. 1:02:40 No you're not the only one. The Daleks being able to just puppeteer bodies now... okay, many questions. When did they get this abillity? Because if they could do this, they'd have just abandoned the whole battle-shell thing forever ago. A big part of the plot of the first Dalek episode is that their weakness is a lack of an abillity to leave their city, because the Dalek shells don't work outside of the city. Back when they were powered by currents in the ground. If they could've just possessed the Thals, they'd have won the war handidly. When I first saw Resolution, my mind went to "Maybe this is an abillity unique to the Recon Dalek." Like, it's sent to be an infiltrator and gather data, so being able to puppet a humanoid body and do covert shit makes sense. But then that gets squashed by this episode, where the regular Daleks complain about mutations. And in order for the Recon Dalek to have this abillty, it'd either need to evolve that power, or be genetically modified. Both of which are big no-no's to the Daleks. So ultimately this is just incompatible with the story they're trying to tell. 1:15:10 I love how they have an entire scene where the Doctor comments on the events of the Timeless Children saying that not knowing a huge chunk of their life makes them question 'who they are' anymore. And literally, this episode features Captain Jack, whose fucking backstory involves him losing 5 years of his memory when he was a Time Agent, which was the catalyst for him going rogue and becoming a con-man, which is how he met the Doctor in the first place. Of all the people to have this conversation with, RYAN is not the one. Jack is. There's a line in that Robert Downey Jr. Sherlock Holmes movie, where he's talking about how shit the police are at investigating. And he's like "They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity." And that's my feelings towards Chibnall. Constantly missing the opportunity to do anything good. Like, it's just within reach, please, try. 1:20:20 yeah! He goes back to calling him Graham and denies the attempted fist-bump. Which, like. Guys. You had this arc already. It's been resolved. Why are we regressing? It's like Chibnall forgot which season this episode's supposed to be set in. 1:23:20 Personally I'm thinking of that Spongebob joke where they're trying to paint Mr. Krabs' house and accidentally make a giant paint bubble. "What could be worse than a giant paint bubble?!" - "Oh, oh I know! TWO giant paint bubbles!" and Patrick just... for no reason, makes another one. Because he's an idiot. 1:28:00 see this is where the whole "Cracks in Time" stuff gets wonky. Moffat wanted a reset, but it's been very inconsistent. Like, within Moffat's own stories, they reference the Russel T. stuff. And Jack being here is a living breathing Russel T. Davies reference. This isn't the first time either. In "Death in Heaven" (Series 8 finale) first you have the scene where Kate Stewart (Brig's daughter) confronts the Cybermen saying her father's dealt with them before. So Classic Who earth invasions haven't been retconned. And then in that Morgue scene where Danny is revived as a Cyberman, you can literally hear a TV news broadcast in the background REFERENCING "Doomsday" where the Daleks and Cybermen very publicly fought en masse in the middle of London. So. Which is it? Are the past Dalek and Cybermen invasions canon, or aren't they? Doctor Who canon has always been inconsistent, but never 'within its' own decade', at least not this bad. 1:28:00 I love how when the Doctor explains what the Dalek "Death Squadron" is, they compare the Daleks to S.A.S. As in... British special forces. Yes, because when I think of zealous lunatics who advocate for racial purity, I think of THE UK ARMED FORCES. Daleks are a Nazi allegory. They literally always have been. For a second I thought I was mis-remembering, like "Did she say S.S. , like the Nazi Gestapo?" which would be a much better comparisson? No, she said S.A.S. What does Chibnall think Daleks are, exactly? In "Resolution" the Doctor refers to the Recon Dalek as a "Refugee." Which is the most tasteless and insensitive way to refer to a creature that- in the context of the story, is literally an insidious invader that's come to infiltrate your society with the goal of destroying everything you know and love. To throw THAT word into the mix, in that context, is either monomentally tone-deaf, or thinly veiled racism. Or both. Could easily be both. 1:34:40 I like how literally, the plot hinges on that earlier scene stolen from "Blood of the Daleks" where the Bronze Daleks are able to genetically scan the Drone-Daleks to the point where they can detect the genetic impurities from a distance. And yet they're fooled by a hologram. Like they wouldn't be scanning the ever-loving fuck out of that. But no, recreate Last Jedi's ending, I guess. Also this scene is stolen from Blood of the Daleks too, as the 8th Doctor finds a holo-projector that was projecting a fake wall to hide the entrance to the Impure/Mutant Dalek cloning facility, then repurposes it to project a hologram of himself passed off as the real thing so he can have a conversation with the new Daleks' creator without putting himself in danger. That character falls for it, as they are... not a Dalek. So at least there it makes sense. Also Also. TARDIS-es are Sentient beings and the Doctor ordered this one to kill itself to resolve the Dalek problem that she herself created. If this was the 7th Doctor, that'd be absolutely on-brand for him. But with 13, it comes off as her usual form of... like, sociopathic 'heehee I'm so clever!" where she does horrendous things to people or makes absolutely fucked moral decisions and doesn't seem bothered by it at all. Anyways long comment is long. This was a wild ride. Thanks for your commentary as always, it's been a beacon of... enjoyment throughout the Chibnall run. Because even though I know the episodes will be bad, I have this to look forward to afterwards.

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

Bloody hell, I forgot about that bit where they call the Dalek a refugee, what a tone-deaf and insulting thing to say. DO THEY NOT HAVE SCRIPT EDITORS?

[@82rocker14]

THIS thing happened in real life, THAT thing is in my show, and that's a plot point -Chris Chibnall

[@AdrianParkinsonFilms]

Listening to the speculation about Dan having a puppy and then Jay and Stu saying Chibnall wouldn't kill a dog is darkly hilarious after series 13.

[@PhialSubstance]

"The Doctor is supposed to interact with Daleks" - it wasn't a missed trick, Chibnall avoided it because he had absolutely no idea how to script a satisfying verbal exchange between 13 and a Dalek.

[@REFLEXiw]

he did it in resolution?

[@romulusnuma116]

When has not knowing stopped him before?

[@tgoas3503]

@@REFLEXiw He scripted a verbal exchange alright. Not too sure it was satisfying. And I still refuse to accept that the thing in Resolution was a dalek.

[@judeconnor-macintyre9874]

here's my Ood head cannon. this Ood was a manifestation of the Ood Subconscious that just wants to go ape shit and have fun, so that Ood just rages across the universe as a red-eye

[@Cmotdibbler941]

I had about the same emotional response to this as I did to idiot's lantern... but idiot's lantern didn't have two companion exits, the doctor escaping from prison, an old companion retuning and daleks. That's the problem with it, when Bill got turned into a cyberman that was a real gut punch and that was only 3 years ago

[@NATHAN-gl9ns]

I preferred the idiot's lantern to this tbh. As fear her-at least that amuses me with it's awfulness

[@mickys8065]

@@NATHAN-gl9ns at least the Tennant tries to make it good

[@pastlife960]

@@mickys8065 At least it had a couple of half-decent jokes.

[@ShadowKamehameha32]

@@NATHAN-gl9ns "I'm reporting you to the COUNCIL!"

[@NATHAN-gl9ns]

@@ShadowKamehameha32 "You just took a council axe from a council van and now you're digging up a council road!"

[@NATHAN-gl9ns]

I think Jodie should have made a friend in prison who helps her through the timeless child whilst jack plays doctor with the companions I've been rewriting this episode in my head to try and fiX it due to my disappointment Least it keeps me thinking, unlike Chibnall

[@shortangel333]

"...eating someone doesn't give you their DNA." But what happened to the saying 'You are what you eat'?

[@MadamMersive]

Right, it does give you their DNA, but you break it down and put it back together to make your own DNA. It’s technically your DNA because it codes for your proteins, so it would register as Dalek DNA because it codes for Dalek proteins. It still doesn’t make sense Edit: if you were joking, I’m sorry. I get carried away

[@shortangel333]

@@MadamMersive Haha it's fine. I mean, yeh that plot point was a bit stupid but then again have you looked at some of the lore behind Doctor Who? I honestly don't hate this story, much like most of this run, I'm just sort of OK about it. A lot of it isn't terrible, it's just safe rehashing of better stories.

[@MadamMersive]

@@shortangel333 yeah. Honestly, to me, it’s like tiramisu. There’s bits I don’t like, bits I’m not bothered about and bits I do like, but they’re not good enough to make it make a good desert and I’m not likely to order it again

[@shyoss2671]

We are not kirby bruh

[@HedeccaTamer]

How to get rid of the prison storyline -Have The Timeless Children end on the first 3 minutes of Revolution, where Not-Trump and Not-Teresa are doing the protest thing and have the defence drone shot be the cliffhanger -Jack Harkness turns up because he heard about government Daleks from Gwen -Unnecessary half hour of Revolution gone, that half hour could then be used to flesh out literally everything else about the story

[@sonnykingcomposer]

Tbh I wouldn't want the prison stuff removed, I liked the effects it had on the plot and characters.

[@MrDarthT]

I've always said I would want a season where The Doctor travels with their future self. Let's say Doctor 14 has to travel with Doctor 13 to figure out how they regenerated. But they can't remember BECAUSE of the Multi-Incarnation Amnesia. You could even have the season made in such a way that, once you know how it plays out, you can re-watch it from the point of view of Doctor 14. I imagine something like Doctor 14 pretending to be a human companion, but it turns out that The Doctor is their own worst companion. Doctor 13 tries to kick Doctor 14 out of the TARDIS, similar to what happened with Adam Mitchell, forcing Doctor 14 to reveal who they actually are. A few episodes later, Doctor 13 clues in to why they're travelling together, and starts to blame Doctor 14 for causing her to regenerate. The season then ends with the regeneration, and the newly regenerated Doctor 14 waking up with no memory of regenerating, bringing the series full circle.

[@williamgabriel2245]

If I said you that I also had this concept in mind? idk It feels like an interesting change to the companions formula. Maybe even expand that Valeyard/Watcher concept from classic, with the futurr Doctor trying to make sure everything goes alright so they own existence can be guaranteed, or to prevent the Doctor from "going evil" and then becoming the Valeyard.

[@CJJC]

1:30:15 Approximate number of Daleks in this frame: 384.

[@PhilippeLizard]

It is amazing how every good Chibnail era outcome is on the "Wasted potential" quality level.

[@Widdums]

I get second embarrassment watching Chibnall Doctor Who. It's just so incredibly bad to the point where I honestly think they're doing it on purpose now.

[@alexmelling5261]

That's saying something with the bullshit Moffat was pulling

[@HyenaDandy]

"The timeless children could be done well" Honestly, my personal belief has long been that there's no bad ideas, just bad executions. I mean, maybe SOME ideas are inherently bad, but then again some ideas I'd have thought were bad turn out fun and good when I see them.

[@scottconwell2146]

Thanks guys! We'll hope this is the last Chibnall season, however, the BBC doesn't seem to understand or care. Thank you for throwing yourselves on this.

[@auberginemanproductions1608]

@The Knight Watcher True. But this one is particularly shit. Don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be tho

[@auberginemanproductions1608]

@The Knight Watcher I agree. Just saying that in my opinion the lows of the previous showrunners are small compared to Chibnall

[@Jedi_Spartan]

I think one of the reasons why so many people liked Revolution of the Daleks is because the episode before it was The Timeless Children and anything that followed would have been received positively. I refer to it as the Asylum of the Daleks effect.

[@JoboVT]

Yeah I think that's what happened with me until I realised the problems with the episode

[@spookymanlistens]

The person who took out a Dalek with a moped and her son's boxing gloves was Gwen Cooper. It was a big deal on Twitter because she was, along with Jack, the POV character for Torchwood, and now there's people speculating the show's coming back. So.

[@DellDuckfan313]

Obviously, she'll turn out to be the Rani in disguise.

[@alexmelling5261]

@Reno Thomas Chad Matheson would be wasted on this farce

[@phantomdriver2010]

Damn really? I was gonna make a Harriet Jones joke

[@kamilee4123]

I’ve been rewatching New Who lately and yesterday I got to 42, the first episode Chibnall wrote for the series. And it’s interesting, because I was watching it and comparing it to the critiques of his era I’ve seen, and a LOT of those problems are actually present. Maybe not as bad, due to a better showrunner and the strong characterization of Ten and Martha, but they’re there. Like the whole “Character and plot moments never overlap” thing is there, with the exception of the calls between Martha and her mom (which has to do more with the overarching plot of Series Three so that was probably Davies’s input). The warning signs were here people, some of us (me included) were just so ready to be rid of Moffat that we didn’t pay attention.

[@60wattmoon]

"What if we gave our three companions some time away from the Doctor so they can solve a plot themselves and finally have a heroic moment that they earn, especially since this is Ryan and Graham's departure?" "Oooooooooorrrrrrrrr, hear me out. They just hang around and then get sidelined the moment the Doctor gets there."

[@reklawsamoht9594]

Hit it in the head “you can see bits in there that can be turned into good things” pretty much every Chibnall script. If people wanna get annoyed, watch mrtardis’s review of this episode.. apparently the bits that we all find rubbish and non-sensical were ‘some of the best he’d ever seen’.

[@rhodrage]

They'll need more than psychic paper to travel the world. Specially now.

[@greghawkins59]

I actually thought this was the best episode since the woman who fell to earth. There still is the standard shitness obvs, sinister truck thief lady is my favourite 😂

[@joolsthebass]

Jay, not only is it Curtis from misfits, it's also Ian from Utopia. Shame on you for missing that! (Nathan Stuart-Jarrett, for future reference)

[@adamfreddo5703]

The whole alien controlling on the back idea with the voice, creepier if it was the Metebelius 3 spiders?

[@j.diamond6014]

Should have been two parts, more of a heist from the PRISON.

[@NATHAN-gl9ns]

I think they should have left Jodie in prison until the end bit and had jack play doctor

[@Nintendalek42]

I'm really not a fan of the Chibnall era, but I actually like the Pting. Not necessarily the episode it came from or how it was utilised there, but the whole "Stitch-like ugly-cute space gremlin" is a sci-fi trope I really enjoy, and it was fun to see DW's spin on it. Under a more competent writing team, something properly fun could be done with it. And i genuinely feel its probably one of the only genuinely good and somewhat iconic concepts to come out of the Chibnall era lol. What else was good that i can even remember? The observer aliens from Demons of the Punjab, and the sentient dimension from It Takes You Away? (Yes I actually, genuinely enjoyed the frog... The lazy cheap B-movie sci-fi set void dimension, with killer moths and the "leftover costume in the wardrobe" troll creature, really brought the episode down though). Cant really see those coming back much. IMO the pting was probably the best fit for that, errr, cheap, unnecessary, hollow, and mostly nonsencial fanservice lineup. As for Arachnids in the UK, i havent rewatched it, much like pretty much all of the Chibnall era (I already dont have enough time to watch the shows i want to watch, let alone submit myself to that disappointing televisual sludge again. Much better to watch someone with better critical skills explain to me why it feels so meh), but I remember enjoying it well enough. But only because i saw it as a conscious throwback to the giant radioactive maggots and whatnot of classic who, and as such was prepared so something pretty dumb. Now, I havent watched classic who, and I imagine those episodes have some more genuine charm to them. I'm also mot saying Arachnids in the Uk was actually good. More that if you were prepared for "so bad its' good", it partially delivers. Idk, kind of like a Chibnall-tier version of Robot of Sherwood? I remember that episode being better on rewatch because I expected a light-hearted romp with very corny humour.

[@charliewarner787]

I can categorically say that I do like the Tsuranga Conundrum 😂😂

[@Orthr]

50:30 I'm not so sure this is a hiccup. Seems more like a death rattle. This is the show the BBC wants Doctor Who to be.

[@ThomasStevensontutor]

I watched this episode with my brothers, and they have not let me turn on the TV since. No regrets though, it was hilariously dumb. :P

[@ewanfawkes2708]

So here is the pitch for the Doctor Prison episode. You have it begin with the doctor's first day in the prison and it introduces our main prisoner characters. You have some old villains, an Ood, a Sontaron (which would be an interesting due to it being a Sontaron) and you have some new villains including one who is psychic and so can read the doctors mind and finds it fascinating (Kind of a Luna Lovegood character). In the early part of the episode the prisoners learn who the doctor is and all want to use her for their escape plans, meanwhile the doctor spends days in her cell thinking things through. Days turn into weeks and weeks turn into months. Then there is the bit where the Doctor makes a wacky escape with Jack only to realize it is a dream. The doctor gets depressed however the psychic character manages to help her. Months then turn into years and we see the doctor as she slowly loosens up and begins socializing with the other prisoners (during this bit it is established that the prison is falling into disrepair and that the prisoners are having to take care of themselves) There is a bit where some of the characters naturally talk about how they ended up in prison and the Doctor takes on the role as a sort of teacher figure helping the prisoners. Then there is an opportunity for the characters to escape and they take it but then a giant battle begins, most of the prisoners chose to fight and they end up getting slaughtered. After this the remaining prisoners are rounded up to be taken to a new facility, during the transfer they are all put in the same room and, using logic, manage to overpower the guards. They then see a sign that there is another spaceship in the area and decide the head to it, as they are travelling they all have a reflection moment and the Doctor asks what any of them will do and most of them are unsure. Just then an alarm goes off and another rapidly approaching spaceship is shown on the radar. This ends up being some more guards who are about to destroy the ship out cast are on when the other ship appears are shoots the guard ship down. This ship is, of course, being piloted by Jack who boards the doctor's ship and is about to take the Doctor to her Tardis when she decides to take the prisoners with them. The episode ends with them returning to the Tardis and set off to return to Earth.

[@Just-Plain-Potential]

As an Aussie, I am aplogizing for our K9 import. XD

[@hada__02]

I cannot express how terrible it was that the first female Doctor had so little agency or drive that she rotted in prison for 20 years and had to be broken out by a man

[@tinysalad3357]

Have you guys checked Timelord Victorious stuff? There is an Ood that would fit in that prison let's just say that.

[@ewandavidson1916]

The Ood could be Bob the Ood who is a an assassin from the Timelord Victorious series. They found shed skins cells the Dalek in the empty shell and from there grow a Dalek mutant. As for people who play themselves in the show you couldn't think of Sharon Osbourne, Barbara Winsor,

[@ewandavidson1916]

Richard Dawkins (who is married to Lalla Ward?), Patrick Moore, McFly, Anne Widdicombe

[@EditedAF987]

Nah, Brian wouldn’t act like a rabid animal, he’s far too refined for that. Also spoilers: he chose to stay behind in the dark times at the end of All flesh is Grass

[@bedroombunny9529]

On a first viewing I lost count of the amount of times I wanted to put a pair of scissors through my throat because it would have been less painful than figuring out how anyone thought this was a good idea. So many unearned "emotional" pay-offs, self-fellating references, awkward dialogue, convenient plot points, characters being unreasonably talented to accommodate the plot, confusing character actions and confusing character motivations. What I'm basically saying is that Chris Chibnall wrote it. But credit where credit is due, she didn't use a god damn magic wand every 2 seconds in this episode to solve literally every problem ever. Another thing. Maybe it is just me but was Yaz in this special seemed particularly unreasonable. Yaz was so awful to 13 because she was gone for 10 months? And 13 never thinks to maybe tell them she was gone for 20ish years? Amy Pond had to wait longer than these guys did and seemed less annoyed than Yaz who has apparently become so obsessed with The Doctor that she makes Amy look put together. She was sleeping in the spare TARDIS with conspiracy theory notes covering whatever flat surface she could stick them too. She doesn't even have the excuse of being a child which leads me to believe that her brain melted after being exposed to space dust because that makes more sense than this entire episode.

[@ShadowKamehameha32]

Honestly, Yaz goes from being a non character to a complete self centered and rather condescending character. Which would be interesting if they actually called her out on her behaviour but nope. Never addressed. Such as when Jack uses the squareness gun, and one second she looks impressed (though you can barely tell since she's blurred and nearly off screen) the next she turns around and says; "Are you insecure? 'Cause it looks like you need a lot of praise" in such a, dare I say, bitchy tone. Like he's saving your life and you feel the need toninsult him??

[@PhialSubstance]

When people say political sci-fi is bad, what they mean is forcing your opinions into scifi is bad. It's fine to present an issue and examine it, explore the consequences etc but that's very different from telling you what to think.

[@emperorleachicus2199]

Watching one bad episode of The Mandalorian (presumably either 2x6, or 2x8 with no build-up) and saying it’s a bad show is like watching The idiot’s lantern and saying the Davies era is a bad era of Doctor Who.

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

I don't think the Idiot's Lantern is that bad. It's one of the worst episodes of the Davies era, but it's better than Fear Her, 42 and The End of the World.

[@phantomdriver2010]

@@TheSmart-CasualGamer Fear Her is unbearably boring

[@Roboshi2007]

@@phantomdriver2010 can't believe Chibnall brought back the scribble monster for his first episode as show runner

[@leadisterrible]

Genuine question: why does everyone hate idiots lantern, its genuinly one of my faves from the RTD era

[@HyenaDandy]

The reason I like Jack Robertson is that unlike any other character on Chibnall Who, he has consistently similar behaviors and motivations. I mean, sure, they're 'Evil,' but that's a step above The Doctor.

[@ElManReborn616]

Obviously the remaining daleks were eaten by the spiders, duh

[@dylan_colon_three]

43:27 RIGHT? I personally have seen a scene In a book similar to this (spoilers for Saga of Darren Shan book 9) Background: good vampires vs bad vampires. The main character has a mentor character. They kill the mentor character off in a similar way. You see him fall into a pit of flaming spikes (not even kidding) then BAM good guy vampires save the day! The mentor is saved by his friend mid air by swinging on a rope and catching him. The MC runs in for a hug with the mentor, as the MC stands on the edge of the pit and breaks down crying as his mentor is now expecting a slow and painful death and the mc can do nothing about it. Now imagine that but in doctor who without death and just depression.

[@rac3502]

So every dalek on the planet enters the tardis at the end?

[@deanmottershead9208]

Not sure that drivers route would normally take him past that burger van though. He is transporting a Darlek hardly normal cargo. Ignoring that you would think something like that is important enough that it would be in a convoy with armed escorts. How did who ever organized this know the date, the route, how do they know the driver will stop there, what if he had asked for a bottle of water or something should have had the lorry being stopped by some mysterious people on the road

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

This isn't a major complaint of mine, I have many of those, but where were all the Judoon in the prison? There were NONE! There should have been at least a couple, even if they were just technicians who kept the systems online.

[@HiperPivociarz]

I would assume the reason a drone is better than a policeman is because you take away the possibility of a real human being killed? You could also assume the drones are made of something way more durable than squishy flesh. Just sayin

[@mickys8065]

Also you can't mass produce humans, or at least not legally

[@HiperPivociarz]

@@mickys8065 That too.

[@HiperPivociarz]

Jay, if you're reading this, I think you should watch the whole Mandalorian, it has very good characterization. I think the first season is better than the second one tho.

[@anonmusbrothers6577]

I Can't belive Stu was not feeling some type of way.

[@maxkennedy7430]

#BringBackTheKrotonsAndTheQuarks

[@callumjohnston858]

Hang about, hang about. Weren't dalek invasions kind of a big thing that happened on a big scale and people remember them? Wouldn't introducing a crowd control drone that looks exactly like them be seen as kind of insensitive and obviously stupid? There's something clever at the core of it, but somehow Chibnall sidesteps the meal to feed us cardboard.

[@AutisticWayOfLife]

I need this clip of you reacting with Mauler and Fringy. No. You don't understand. I NEEEED it.

[@JayExci]

It's on MauLer's twitter!

[@tarponpet]

I don't have a problem with the Recon Dalek's personality.

[@andrewlavigne44]

Watching in July 2022. Come on 2073.

[@ewandavidson1916]

How many people have seen a 3D printer, they just tried to make one it look interesting.

[@NitroIndigo]

A thought just occurred to me: were Daleks partly inspired by the Martians from War of the Worlds? They're squishy, cephalopod-like aliens who travel in metal machines, wantonly kill other planets' lifeforms, and are analogies for European nations' atrocities.

[@HiperPivociarz]

Why was the ood locked up with the sycorax?

[@Wipeout325]

Yeah I wondered that, the Ood are a hivemind right? You can’t have a single Ood criminal. Also it was weird that he was locked up with a Sycorax, it felt very recognise these and clap.

[@HiperPivociarz]

@@Wipeout325 Why was it locked up in the same cell is what my problem is? Wouldn't they be a danger to each other?

[@EditedAF987]

@@Wipeout325 singular Ood criminals are a thing, we recently met an Ood assassin named Brian in the Timelord victorious arc. However the process of disconnecting him from the hive mind was a very difficult one and took a lot of effort and it left him a bit insane

[@morningcoffeecat2271]

Nostalgia bait ofc

[@HiperPivociarz]

@@morningcoffeecat2271 No, you misunderstood. I know that. WHY ARE THEY IN THE SAME CAGE

[@alexturlais8558]

This was actually one of my favourite episodes of Chibnall. It was terrible and out of date but it was entertaining enough to just put on.

[@cassidymooney1183]

Im not a Chibnall era fan but i do quite like the Pting.

[@vampiresquid2635]

I kind of love the Hath tbh

[@SmartSmears]

I liked it, but in the way where you know the flaws of the era are still there. I'd still call it a better Chib episode

[@LaurenceGill2000]

Ahah I have basically all these problems with this episode but I still kind of enjoyed it. You have to throw the episode a bone at points with some of the clunky character motivations and accept them which allows you to enjoy some of the scenes based on that motivation🤷🏻‍♂️ The episode does have a lot of flaws but I still enjoyed

[@greghawkins59]

Glad you mentioned the John Bishop reveal. I've not seen anyone bring it up and its the only bit I really don't like. I'm really worried he's gonna over shadow yaz just as she was about to get some character development.

[@MyNameIsExci]

I sincerely doubt she would have gotten meaningful characterisation either way.

[@greghawkins59]

@@MyNameIsExci tbf it is chibnall writing we're talking about here, the last thing we need is another bland character added to the mix tho

[@connierobinson1090]

Called it about his character being hard on his money haha

[@XantuxNepomuk]

I really hope this video is like 2 hours long!!

[@phossu3110]

Hey don't diss cheese on toast like that

[@greghawkins59]

Here in 2077 everything is different

[@emperorboss5557]

How dare you I love cheese on toast 😂😂😂

[@SuperFitzyBoi]

Prediction: Jon Bishop is Geode

[@Gravitacionimanevar]

you should make a video about some series or movie something like "why bla bla was accidentaly genious". I really enjoyed the video some dude made about pirates of the carribean in this way and i think you guys would make equally good content!

[@thelegendthemyththeman4772]

Please review Dalek remembrance of earth

[@henrychinaski8686]

The future is bad.

[@chunkles5535]

Facts

[@gingeralex4009]

Really liked the special. The effects were nice except for the dodgy 3D printing. Sad Bradley had to leave but they gave him and Ryan a good ending. Loved the Remembrance of the Daleks stuff and the corrupt politicians. 10/10. Unfortunately, I think the show has to pick up some good will in the aftermath of The Timeless Children. Although my take should be taken with a pinch of salt since I quite liked Time of the Doctor and Twice Upon a Time. Last Christmas still sucked though.

[@marcuswalters8093]

I think this episode is almost good. But Jodie Whittaker *cannot* play the role the writers keep writing for her. Speaking of Last Christmas, look at what Faye Marsay does in that episode. It's exactly the character Jodie is supposed to be playing and absolutely can't. The writers should have adjusted their grip and began writing this incarnation in a way that she can actually do because aside from a few flashes here and there, she has never been the Doctor.

[@gingeralex4009]

@@marcuswalters8093 I was actually watching Stu's review of Last Christmas the other day and thought that character might as well have been played by Whitaker. Good to know that's not just me

[@ftumschk]

@@marcuswalters8093 Re the writers changing the way the Doctor's written - that's what I'd hoped for, too. It's basically what happened with McCoy; he was pretty cringeworthy during his first season, but they massively changed the tone for his remaining two. Whether it was done consciously or not, making him more introvert and mysterious also meant he didn't have to "act" as much, which was a better fit for his limited experience as a leading actor. If they hadn't changed direction, I seriously don't think he'd be as well-remembered as he is, and deserves to be.

[@JontyLevine]

You're not supposed to ask _why_ they're in the prison (the same prison as the Doctor, no less!) even though some are clearly villainous and others (like the Ood) were sympathetic characters in the episodes they appeared in - because the production team didn't know either, and the prison scene was clearly just an excuse to show old monsters for nostalgia bait. Anyway, as much as I despise the Chibnall era with every fibre of my being, I actually didn't hate the Pting. It was _far_ from the worst part of the episode it appeared in. No. The worst part of Tsuranga was the Doctor's unnecessary lecture about antimatter. Fite me on this.

[@sonnykingcomposer]

The prison stuff was literally half the reason why Ryan left... It had plenty of reason. Yes maybe it was a bit rushed but still.

[@HedeccaTamer]

The main problem with this episode, and the Chibnall era as a whole, is that it insists upon itself

[@Myne1001]

At least we can agree Revolution of the Daleks is better than Dimensions in Time

[@DeplorableMinecrafter]

Technically, yes, but Dimension in Time has better Doctors, the Brigadier, and hilarious nonsense to keep me entertained rather than self-important edgy themes that are less nuanced and mature than a teenage goth phase.

[@ewandavidson1916]

The story ending is 2022.

[@marcuswalters8093]

I feel like this episode was *this* close to being good. The biggest detractions are Jodie Whittaker's performance, the dropping of vital plot points (the whole recon dalek thing was just dropped, almost completely off screen) and the insanely short run time. This needed to be a two-parter, and also they didn't retcon the timeless child.

[@thomashale5815]

I think it's confirmed Chris just wants to right a doctor who anime spin off

[@NATHAN-gl9ns]

A doctor who anime would be pretty jazzy Ngl

[@AmpersandsDeadChannel]

Write*

[@tomgarb6302]

I'm not averse to cheese on toast of course

[@azogtheuglee4889]

Give Stu B88Bs

[@BeyondTheFan]

2021 isnt over and neither is the flux. The only good thing is catching up on these vods. Jay, am I the last watcher?

[@babaracus9583]

Can you please reviewa BF story?

[@Log-On-Line]

3:47 wow she looks scary

[@paxinviscis8245]

don't worry this video will be last watched as evidence in your trial by fire as you come to the conclusion doctor who is gone.

[@gmonkman]

Political sci-fi can be good, agree, e.g. The Expanse.

[@theaquinnwrites]

Me, watching this video almost a year later and hearing Jay promise to get her video out in "february" : lol Also while I was watching (bc for some reason I hadn't seen this, as i thought it was Resolution? Idk. ) I was doing the trope from Jay's video: "character time is over, time for plot"

[@peterthompson1989]

I think the episode would have been better having the doctor in prison throughout most of the episode with scenes every so often showing her slowly go a bit mad. I also felt the companion exit was too low key. The doctor should have shown up but very close to the end and Ryan or Graham nearly die. They feel bitter that she hadn't been there earlier and realise they can't wait around for her to turn up so decide to leave and take things into their own hands