I fixed Phil's PC... You'll NEVER guess what the problem was!

If you can figure out what went wrong then you get a cookie!
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[@N54bryce]

Lock rotor current for the fan could be what was causing the ocp. Current for stuck electric motors can be 6-8x higher than normal

[@TheArcheRazor]

yep this

[@ericbauer4559]

Came here to say the same.

[@war4peace1979]

Yup, it's a fan thing. Some fans do have a locked rotor sensor, not sure about Lian Li fans, though.

[@yren3386]

​​@@war4peace1979these are brushless fans with control boards. The control board is clever enough to know that. Even my cheapo Amazon random fan does. The problem is, it will reset and retry every a few seconds. So every time it tries to start, it's gonna send a spike to PSU. When CPU and GPU are on full power, this extra load could easily overload the PSU.

[@tobytl]

Yup thought the same. Actually I was thinking about that poor fan header, thing coulda melted with that much juice

[@mariomunoz525]

Jay, as someone who just did their first water cooled build and ran into countless issues, im very thankful that you not only show all your successes, but also all the speed bumps you encounter along the line. Thank you for not only the knowledge, but the example of the patience it takes to get these systems working when doing it yourself.

[@IamKingSleezy]

Genuinely. If it weren't for Jay and his willingness to show his successes as well as his failures I'd have ripped most of my hair out with my pc issues.

[@mariomunoz525]

@@IamKingSleezy broo ive literally just sat back took a breath and asked myself What Would Jay Do??

[@TheZoenGaming]

Yeah, I had stopped doing water cooling back in the early '00s because of all the issues that would crop up. I'm now getting back into it because of modular PSUs, high quality crossflow rads, mobo-integrated flow and temp sensor inputs, availability of monoblocks meaning I don't need a separate cooler for VRMs, and Uni Fans and other direct-attach daisy-chain fans reducing the clutter. It's just taking me a while to get all the parts since the QD's I want are always out of stock. I can get one every few months at best, and I need at least 4.

[@IamKingSleezy]

@@mariomunoz525 easily the best advice that Jay has given, at least for me, is "Take a deep breath, there's no need to panic. Panic doesn't help you think." The best advice. Because if something is already broke, freaking out isn't going to fix it.

[@arkangel7330]

This is actually why i watch Jay2Cents. Videos like this is why Jay is one of the best. Thanks for showing us all of these!

[@LaurenceWillis]

Tell Phil that using the "peel fail" audio as part of the music drop was GENIUS

[@kerdum]

Phil's music is sooo good!

[@linuxstreamer8910]

a literal drop

[@Gorilazz.]

that shit cracked me up!!! i swear i cant get enough of their video's and then when they add little stuff like this it just makes the video even better!

[@nuuukethewhales]

I laughed my ass off it was perfect

[@raze4789]

Some mobo's have a setting that if the CPU fan header reports no RPM, the system will shutdown. There is also the chance that a stuck fan draws multiple times more power. This is why if you stop a fan with your hand then let go, it takes it a second to kick back on. I imagine there are a certain number of times it tries to start the fan before it shuts down the system.

[@BNR_248]

Yea usually the bios throws a fan error code in those situations. But once you're past windows boot screen it'll ignore the issue until overheat or whatever kicks in from lack of airflow. However this situation was different because the fan header was getting a signal due to daisy chaining, but as you suggested, the fan that wasn't spinning was drawing more current instead, probably hit more than 4x the normal current draw when Phil set it to 100%.

[@MrMarrok657]

Youve been building computers for as long as Ive been alive, that puts things into perspective quickly lol

[@krowbar2009]

lol good point. Its these old boys who clearly had a copy of x copy professional on there Amigas yer want to watch. Experience is experience said some movie i cant remember. This guy is legit.

[@Thurgosh_OG]

@@krowbar2009 Some of us were working/using computers from before Amigas were a thing. 286, 386, even ZX 81s and Spectrums.

[@joelchojnacki]

@@krowbar2009 Ah, I miss my C64 & Amiga 500.

[@laptiswaar491]

You really miss things like load'"*.*",8,1 or perforating a little square out of a 5.25" floppy to be able to use both sides ? But then again it was the C=64 back in 82 that started this journey of learning curves to be taken throughout the decades, but having those foundations as a base knowledge, THAT is hard to explain to following generations, who learned it all from a windows like type of user interface, we had DOS, not an occasional command prompt etc etc... Amazing that the 64K was enough mem for playing most of the arcade games at home back then...@@joelchojnacki .... and oh that day we discovered copyIIpc xD

[@wallywest2360]

Having the fan physically blocked made the PWM send it full power to try and get it going. I think in that situation the amount of current draw can be considerably higher than even at 100% fan speed. I've been building PCs for about as long as Jay, and I've seen some really weird issues. It's frustrating, but also a good feeling when you figure it out.

[@donaldslayer]

Motors draw massively over their rated current when starting. Even a few seconds of that is bad news

[@Kiwi_Conor]

​@@donaldslayerYeah. I'm not a complete expert on computers, but I am an industrial electrician. Locking the fan rotor could maybe cause many times the normal running current. Easy way to burn out motor if it doesn't have the correct overload protection

[@SianaGearz]

​@@donaldslayerbrushless PC fan motors don't actually behave like that since their drive electronics is current feedback.

[@MindstabThrull]

So crazy that that's what the problem was. With all the high-tech stuff that we deal with in computers... I guess Phil's a lot happier now! And for Techtober you got TWO videos out of it!

[@trev8591]

The most bizarre problem I've seen for a long time (building computers for about 20 years). Well done, Jay, good fix.

[@Troppa17]

A first for me as well. I'm messing around with PCs for 25 years now and I've seen a lot fans acting up and dying before but never saw them triggering OCP if they are not allowed to rotate. If it was the motherboard that didn't recognize the fan spinning it would've either not booted at all or shut down immedately. So I think that fan or the two together altered the PWM signal in such a way that the signal line back to the board basically shorted. I guess if you think you've seen it all you probably don't.

[@Topper_Harley68]

Same here, dealing with computers for over 85 years i have never seen this before.

[@ArdyneusTheGod]

That PC looks as amazing as I imagined. Sfx/mini-itx PCs are my favorite, and I really appreciate when people try a custom water loop in them.

[@AgentHeX_0007]

The first fan in the daisy chain sends the rpm signal back to mb header. That fan not spinning could have been tripping the mb's CPU fan fail protection. Also PWM means Pulse Width Modulation which is the method that the mb uses to control the speed of the fans and is not related to the the rpm signal being sent from the fan back to the mb.

[@rkaidag74]

Ah hue are correct my good sir...

[@keithvsmith]

Beat me to it, I said the same thing. I support these automated Smart Markets that use PWM for their LED Light Panels and you can see the flicker of the panels cycling on/off if you turn the PWM down enough. People always complain about it. "Yeah, that's normal."

[@rkaidag74]

@keithvsmith if your using pwm to control your led panels you should probably use the correct power connector... some led panels come with what looks like a pwm header but all led panels are controlled with either 5v or 12v, they are not actually controlled by a pwm style header... if you are using the pwm on your motherboard to power your leds you might want to find some sort of adapter for your pwm style header so you can connect to the proper 5v or 12v header!!! On another note like he said in the original post, pwm means pulse width modulation... a led or light emitting diode is not powered by a pulse and has no width to modulate... they are powered with direct current and any flashing is done with a computer controlled chip that actually fluctuates direct current to the diodes.... now it is possible to power them via pwm module but I don't advise it... use the proper rgb header or power header from your psu to power your led control panels please... that message looked like some sort of Troll...I hope this helps you tbh...

[@keithvsmith]

@@rkaidag74 Might want to reread what I typed, this wasn't for a Computer... It was about going off how PWM or Pulse Width Modulation works. It's an On/Off duty cycle, so if you set it to 80, it's on 80% of the time and off 20% instead of being voltage controlled.

[@rkaidag74]

@keithvsmith I think you might be confused... the percentage is a total... the actual pulse modulation is to control the magnetism of the fan so it doesn't have so much perpetual motion the motor cannot keep up... the percentage your seeing is total power output bud... it doesn't actually effect the pulse modulation, that happens automatically it only increases or decreases the total percentage of what's being modulated.... like an engine on a boat going downstream vs upstream....!!!

[@ericheft6184]

Thanks for sharing the fix. It would be interesting to do an A/B power draw comparison between a freely spinning fan and one that you hold fixed. Pretty sure a stuck fan pulls more power and the motor itself can over heat.

[@Disarray91]

It can be 5-10 times more, depending on the motor and the voltage, if I recall correctly

[@pabloXL]

awesome catch. this is the beauty of troubleshooting... look for clues and then use your experience and logic to figure it out. nice one

[@Numfuddle]

It’s an attribute of electric motors that the current increases when the mechanical load on the motor increases. A broad number of applications (like 3.5 inch disc drives or instrument clusters) actually use this effect to e.g. detect the dead stops. (turn the motor until current rises above a threshold) A blocked motor draws three times or more current than if it’s not blocked

[@djtribo8925]

Its always the smallest thing causes the biggest issue! Great content Jay, and enjoy the build Phil!

[@brysonmoore3748]

Sounds very similar to airplane recirc and or equipment cooling fans, when bearings go out or having excess current draw from gunk build up, etc to reach that operating speed. Always pops that breaker. Kinda cool info that it relates to computers in some sort of fashion as well lol. Thanks for the uploads Jay!

[@lennyvlaminov9480]

Sweet, nice work. Yes, it's electrical, the mechanical hindrance will ask the system to push it more (current) til something break or some protection kicking in. Great channel btw

[@blacknovella]

24hrs turn around is really good.. usually its like a week cause you found more issues when building and more parts/fittings/brackets get ordered.. and finally you have to actually dremel part of the case to fit a bracket.. ah, the process.

[@jonathanmarsh8119]

I love these videos. A lot of the time you watch a video on how to build a PC and end up sitting there saying ... "yeah but it is not doing that, what do I do now?". These types of videos help figure out problems which aren't obvious. Thanks Jay for being awesome!

[@Geniusinside2023]

I love Jays videos and the patience he has to troubleshoot and not figuring something out teaches you something new and to change your moethod in building a water cooling system for super small cases. The part that made me laugh the most and it made my night honestly, When the music started and he's pulling the film off the glass and the glass flew off 😂😂😂 I was in tears. Thank you Jay for being the only youtuber that is not afraid to show that something didn't work out and didn't take out of the montage, That gives people confidence to keep trying to learn how to figure things out. In all honesty I only enjoy and love Jays videos as number one source for me, Gamers Nexus was my first then he started making long ass boring videos with all due respect and i love his work, But too long is boring and not good for content cause people don't have the patience nor the time to watch 40 to 60 minutes of talk and no action. Great having you my main source Jay, And that will be it. Jay then Gamers nexus then last MKBHD sor electronics and especially for Smartphones.

[@steveg8337]

Every build I've ever done I always make sure every fan in the system is turning. Never take it for granted.

[@Digikidthevoiceofreason]

All right Jay. It has been many many months since you promised us an update and or a video about you working with Northbridge fix and we have heard nothing from you. It is time for you to keep your promise. Do it!

[@glimmerman4hm]

Thank you for not giving up and figuring it out. I'm a motorcycle technician and I see it every day. People get stuck and give up. I have to explain to them that I learned more from not giving up than I ever did in a classroom.

[@cp37373]

Lmfao

[@l0zerth]

I walked at a friend's garage a few summers ago, and realized just how much is understanding basic concepts, and using those to figure out what the problem is.

[@jfernandez76]

Oh my, I had the exact same problem with a build on this case for a customer of us, it would unexpectedly shut down without showing any problems with temps. We left the build unused due to this poltergeist. I'll check tomorrow if there is some fan blocked from turning....

[@RGRockboyGamingVLOG]

I really gotta admit. The editing of your videos, cutting at the right times, sound effects, jokes, music is on another level compared to most tech channels. Really good job to Phil or whoever else is included. PROPS !

[@johnhogg9756]

I suspect a jammed fan may draw more current which may have been too much for cpu fan header.

[@xTOF_BE]

It’s not because of the PWM, it’s because the rotor is locked which causes the motor to overheat and trip the OCP. Great job in finding that one, don’t have a lot of space to work with in that case!

[@Dan-Simms]

Wild I actually did have an idea what was going on, only because I've encountered a very similar issue. Mine was caused by a GPU fan though, where the middle fan out of the 3 wasn't spinning and causing OCP shutdowns. That sure was a fun one to figure out because the temps were fine, and presisted after swapping out the power supply. Fans can be hard to diagnose, especially in my case where I couldnt see if they were all moving or not.

[@shawnbrackett]

I've been struggling with this issue in my Corsair One i145 for months and I thought I was losing my mind. Corsair, GeekSquad, friends in IT-no one could figure it out.

[@ultraprimez]

That sometimes happens with me too. When i clean up my PC and re assemble it back it just doesn't want to turn on. Because all the USB slots are occupied are connected. So that's a really good video jay. Power can sometimes be complicated. And in my case it's the USB connected to my printers. And my PC sees it's pulling unusual power from usb and it shuts down. For me it's just to remove every USB connection except keyboard + mouse + monitor (my monitor also have a USB hub connected so remove it too). Then it's all fine. Let the PC run for a time then connect each USB one at a time and good to go.

[@buddahbud1]

Looking good ... and great thermals on that powerful lil monster ... and the computer too Phil 🙂 Nice work Jay

[@dangingerich2559]

My big question is why are systems so small so popular? I prefer a nice, big tower. I've got a Corsair 7000X main system, and my two self training lab machines are in Thermaltake Core V71 cases. I really don't like those tiny cases. It makes putting the machine together so much more difficult.

[@RabbiKrieg]

I think part of it is form factor, some people prefer their PC as small as possible. I think the other part of it is, is because it is hard to do, in terms of getting really powerful systems into really small spots, I think that's why people do it too. Me. I'm on your side. Side give me a full tower case, I would rather have enough room inside my case to put the Atlantic Ocean then there if I needed to, lol. Each to their own, as long as people are enjoying what they build and are using it, I'm happy for them.

[@martingru]

As for me personally ( i do own ITX pc) It makes a lot cleaner setup and saves space on desk/looks great (smaller than Xbox X) ive got Motif Monument Stand/case so i have no problems with airflow and temps since i do like cooler temps in my room anyway imho its boils down to preferences i could build "normal" "big" pc for lot less but it would automatically landed under the desk :D

[@combat3252]

A smaller case is easier to move around for upgrades/dusting and takes up less desk space. My first real build was in an NZXT Khaos and moving that thing always sucked. Now that I'm using NR200 I can't see myself ever going back I think , with SATA being basically completely optional in modern builds, we're at a point where the trade offs are minimal for a typical mid-range build and we're one major innovation away in PSU cabling or GPU efficiency (one that makes 3 fan cards pointless) from NR200 size cases from becoming the default.

[@plumbum3321]

Unscrewing and screwing the case a hundred times during this video alone! Building and fixing PCs is more a therapy to himself than maintenance for the PC :-). I love it when you love, what your doing, man!

[@wolverine6]

could also be a unconscious advertisement for the Linus Screwdriver.

[@blackjack6259]

I just wanted to say that the system looks great after the upgrades! I use that same color blue on my system except it is a slow breathing mode instead of static. Great job on getting it working and letting us know what happened!

[@nuuukethewhales]

I love my NR200, it's awesome to be able to take apart an ITX system and work on it without having to rip everything apart. Happy flying Phil, keep the blue side up!

[@gabiballetje]

Most unexpected problem we ever had on a completely new build was a bad IDE cable. Yes, it was a while ago, but, a bad new cable is very rare. It would boot fine, somewhere during installing Windows it would conk out. You start checking other things first, HD, Mobo, PSU, even memory, CPU, the chances of it being a brand new bad cable is just astronomically low in comparison because it's such a simple part.

[@sandspar]

37 years ago was 1986, the year I got my Timex Sinclair w/ cassette tape storage. Next was the Commodore64, Zenith desktop, followed by Amiga then build my own since. Psygnosis flight sims and Papyrus NASCAR MMO thru dialup, had to build my own wheel and pedals. So yes, it has been an exhausting journey to the conflicts of today, which are much less but on an exceedingly complex level. IRQ conflicts were the good ole days, and learning why Celerons were cheap. Hope my present system holds because I have had enough, 12600k w/ EVGA 1070TI AIO, great temps. Salute to you Jay for sticking with it, and thank you for inviting us along.

[@MadIIMike]

I might be wrong especially for modern mainboards, but old ones had CPU fans with notably higher power draw, if you used a old CPU fan with bad bearing (higher resistance) as chassis fan it could easily fry your motherboard. If you think that one was hard to diagnose: I once had a power LED fail in a way where it was still working but drew too much power and shut down the PC (oc protection?). I tought I was going crazy because everything worked outside the case (where I didn't have the power LED connected) and the last thing you'd suspect is a working LED.

[@steveseybolt]

Well with PWM on the MB would see a fan not spinning and send more voltage and with it not being able to turn would cause a fault for sure. It's great to see safeguards actually working as intended. Back in the day you would generally smoke your board and or PSU.

[@SirLugash]

That's not how that works. The voltage is constant 12V through the 12V supply line. The PWN signal is switching the fan on and off constantly according to it's setting in order to control the speed.

[@steveseybolt]

@@SirLugash Oh I thought when a electric motor is unable to spin that the subsequent power feedback would pop a breaker like on every electric motor that has one built in. As these fans do not it would trigger the MB or PS which would be the the next layer of protection. I know that they run on 12v but the PWM regulates that voltage to slow or speed up the fan to control the temp is that not how that works? I do understand Fan curve but I wasnt sure that is what Jay said I thought they set them to 100% and that energy has to go somewhere. not an expert on it just seemed logical .

[@steveseybolt]

@@SirLugash When a motor is stuck, it can cause a spike in current. This can melt a wire, or blow a fuse. But why? What exactly is happening here? Which values are going up, and which are going down? Volts = Amps * Resistance Watts = Amps * Volts

[@SirLugash]

@@steveseybolt Considering the low amount of power those fans are designed for, they would probably catch fire before being able to overload a supper supply. The PWM signal technically causes voltage regulation inside the fan by turning it on and off for relative intervals which averages out for the requested speed. However it will not cause the PSU or Motherboard to "send more voltage" as the 12V line is constant.

[@steveseybolt]

That makes sense so PWM saved the fan I like it ! @@SirLugash

[@allmybasketsinoneegg]

Jay, there's a few things going on here. The PWM signal is just that, low voltage a control signal, telling the fans how quickly they should spin. Even with the one stuck fan, the signal will pass through correctly allowing the second fan to spin as requested. This tells me that no weirdness was going on with the control PWM signal at all. The power required to spin the fans is coming from 12v, and the stuck fan, trying to spin at the requested speeds, would have used a ton of current trying to start spinning, this is what tripped the OCP for the 12v rail. I don't know how those fans handle reporting their own rpm when they're daisy chained, but normally it's just from the first fan in the chain and subsequent fans are just assumed to be doing the same, or almost the same, as the first. Ideally it should read as zero rpm as the fan wasn't spinning, but it's likely that the motor, pulsing current with every attempt at starting, flooded the tachometer signal with garbage that the motherboard couldn't decipher.

[@TheRealYeller]

As soon as you said that the one fan was plugged into the cpu fan header, I KNEW that it had to be a problem with a fan not spinning. A buddy of mine was having issues with his PC a while back (it was jank and super budget should be explanation enough i hope) and he was having problems with his PC constantly shutting off and crashing after his cpu fan quit working. He had taken the side panel off and pointed a box fan into it as an alternative to cooling his cpu instead of buying (at the time) a $30 cpu fan for his specific fin stack. He was so confused as to how he was having problems weith better thermals than before, but would crash every time he launched ANY game. It wasn't until he plugged in a new CPU fan to his cooler and never had a problem again. Its probably some protocol with the instruction set of the CPU itself (or motherboard) that if the thing that is supposed to cool the cpu isnt doing the thing its supposed to do, to shut down to prevent thermals geting out of hand and damaging the chip

[@Ramshackle6984]

Good catch! I had a similar issue with an old turbine fan from Cooler Master in the early 00s. For some reason the motherboard couldn't see the CPU fan even when it was spinning and would shut down. Took a while to figure it out.

[@maximilianjancke9375]

The side panel falling off during the montage was priceless! That's why I'm subscribed. 😂

[@katcrafty]

Just built 3 new PCs. One of them was having terrible stuttering and trouble posting. After replacing everything, draining my bank account and tearing my hair out in the process; it turns out it was a faulty pcie riser cable from cooler master. Same one I used in one of the other builds. So frustrating, yet so simple.

[@VolcanoPenguin]

Welp, I can't even remotely begin to argue that this title is clickbait. I would NEVER in a million years guess that it was a fan. That is a really nice looking build. I LOL'd way too hard when the glass launched itself to the ground during the peel!

[@BartKost]

Hey Jay, maybe you could 3d print some spoilers for the thin fans underneath (same thickness as the case feet extenders) to hide the fans and their wires. Very nice build!

[@Ichi.Capeta]

I also have come across the fan problem before where temps are unusually warm. It made noise too. I add custom cardboard cut out washer for the grill and it solve the temp issues

[@khatarin]

Have been watching back some of the older JayzTwoCents videos and this truck to me. I remember one time when I re-organized my room and disconnected my PC whilst doing it. Once everything was plugged back in, PC didn't start. Nothing worked. What in the end caused it was a specific USB device in either one of TWO specific USB ports that just caused the PC not to power on at all. No Bios screen, no nothing. Moved the USB device to a USB extension card and another USB device from the extension card to the MB USB port. This was some 15-20 years back or something

[@garynagle3093]

Wow! Glad you’re good at troubleshooting. Loved seeing you explain your thoughts, cause, and solution

[@andybradford6969]

I'm guessing the first fan is the only fan it's reading acting as a "master". Similarly, fan hubs have one header that acts as the fan rpm reader.

[@nathanielmann709]

I finished my nr200p hard line build just before you guys did. I had so much fun but it was also a bunch of hard work but Allina all super happy. Used the the new ique link fans. Thank you for all the great help over the years with all my watercooled builds!!!

[@SaccoBelmonte]

Something inside the system was triggering a sort of "no CPU fan signal".

[@AustnTok]

The montage went hard af dude. I recently upgraded to a 4K monitor and watching that in 4K with a good headset for that bass was dope af.

[@FireTigerARG]

Love this videos showing all the thought process, not right away the solution

[@DaFunkShun]

It's relieving to see that stupid things can happen to ANYONE of us. I can't remember how many times my head wanted to hit the desk in my 25 years of building my own systems.

[@ejeckk]

Great troubleshooting! To test your theory, did you try manually stopping the fan to see if you achieved the same fault? Just curious.

[@jasonharter4876]

Glad I didn't have to wait too long to find out the RCA. Edit: The PWM can probably only handle a certain amount of amperage. When that fan was trying to turn but couldn't I imagine the amperage shot through the roof and overloaded the circuit.

[@SirLugash]

The PWM line isn't carrying the current that is driving the fan. That goes through the 12V and GND wires. The PWN line is a digital signal to controll the relative on/off times of the fan to reach the desired speed.

[@user-yt2rq8qn3l]

Great job Jay (and friends)! I have been restricting my home builds to big high quality cases ( like the Lian li O11 evo xl) for years because I hated working in cramped conditions ever since the time of the cheap beige 'cut-any-finger-you-dare-in' generic brand cases. I can see now how that helps dodge the weirdest pitfalls.

[@Altair-Fan]

Jay what was tripping the power on your power supply is called a thermal fuse. When too much current is drawn it gets hot and opens up shutting off power. Then as it cools down it will self reset and turn back on.

[@personaldronerepair6141]

Not a big fan of itx but this little unit looks great. Good job on that diagnosis.

[@MrFluteboy1980]

ITX doesn't really do big fans, so it's probably for the best. (I'll see myself out)

[@motivatedpeon]

Given the amount of space, that build is looking pretty awesome. I really like the subtle look with the minimum LEDs on it.

[@ZigArrok55]

Can I just say, was listening to this in my car. Montage music kicks in and it freaking bumps quite nicely.

[@PrankstarDK]

Says it's not clickbait, continue with a vague intro to the video to lure you even further! Clever moves Jayz :P

[@marcosfilho1815]

This is maybe the best video this year, not only in your channel, but all `pc building` channels. Not only the reason, the way you delivered the problem, investigation and solution. Humble and effective, congratulations bro!

[@rasmusvedel]

If you’re into that go check out Greg Salazar. He has a whole series on fixing viewers PCs and goes into the entire trouble shooting process.

[@peacewalker8243]

I would suggest using 3d printed feet for the bottom case to accommodate 25mm fan. It will make the case slightly taller but barely noticeable.

[@jrmacho22]

Satisfying conclusion to this build. NICE find/fix. Also satisfying b-roll/ montage. :D

[@justinalvarado7351]

When I saw this vid labeled "I fixed Phil's PC... You'll NEVER guess what the problem was!" My guess was "Jay overlooked something" on a small formfactor build.

[@rmarroq]

omg i spit my drink when you pulled the plastic off the side cover during the showcase 🤣😂

[@kevin9218]

Most electric motors, unless 3 phase, use far higher power from a dead stop than they do while turning. They need to do this because of the way the electromagnets work. If you just supplied the normal operating current to a stopped fan, it will most likely not move, in fact the magnetic fields produced will resist movement, until it actually gets some momentum going. If the fan was stuck in this state and the board was continuously trying to supply it with it's startup power, it could have been drawing a lot more power than you realize.

[@bgeezus3955]

Guy I had a build, it would turn off from static shock ANYWHERE in my room. There was a bent pin on the on-board power button. Made the pin straight and static shut downs GONE

[@Kapono5150]

I’m soo thankful Big PC cases don’t bother me. I’ll never understand why people want to build these tiny extremely powerful PC’s

[@l0zerth]

Anywhere that space is a premium, especially something like an efficiency apartment or tiny house, for example. Some people also just hate the idea of an appliance sized computer to look at, and are willing to spend the money and/or effort of SFF builds.

[@Fanaticalight]

Ah, the bizarre joys of building and testing computers, you run into so many weird situations. Had one a couple months ago when I built a computer for someone. Significant RAM corruption, thought it was bad components. It was a singular strand of hair I'm assuming making contact with the pins. Removed it, problem fixed.

[@cr1mzun879]

Man I wish you fixed viewers’ pc’s cuz I’ve been chasing an issue with mine for like 2 weeks and I can’t figure it out for the life of me😂 you’re so knowledgeable with them it’s scary

[@FrenziedManbeast]

Getting actual flashbacks from building my wife's ITX machine a few years back... Glad you got it sorted, thanks for sharing!

[@Nedski42YT]

This will be remembered in the JayzTwoCents archives as "The Fan Jam Disaster." No PC's were hurt during the filming of this episode. Monitored by ASPC-P.

[@Lions7.62mm]

He even has to drop spending $55 for a fkn cable for his EDITOR'S PC.... Acting like he hasn't been sent tens of thousands of dollars in electronics that have never been used 😂😂😂😂😂

[@Rhiannon_Autumn]

that's amazing. Excellent job in figuring that out

[@GASerra]

I love the NR200P MAX case. Phil's PC looks amazing now. Mine has a custom loop similar to a lian li q58 and it's also pretty good.

[@killer01ws6]

Odd issue, good job figuring it out.. system looks nice all put together.

[@rumblpak]

As others have stated, a forcibly stopped fan will use way more current than a properly running one but also, fans that are daisy chained only have the first fan report RPM sense. PWM (or pulse width modulation) only tells the fans how fast to spin, RPM sense tells the motherboard “I’m spinning this fast.” The combination of high amperage and low rpms was possibly tripping some internal cutoff to prevent damage.

[@Blackraven6]

12:48 Noob guess - since it's a daisy chained PWM - it got some sort of PID error since PMW is technically a PID controller of sorts depending on how it's programmed? I think?

[@LordCrisp]

Missed oppotunity Jay... Should have done a montage of a disassembled system, just for the giggles :) It's always nice/fun to see these "this weird shit happened" videos... I've messed around with computers for over 20 years... I would have never expected such a problem to be a fan

[@fasd538]

Great that you could figure this one out. Had a similar issue once with a Fractal AIO where one of the three fans on the radiator stopped turning (bad bearing?) unless you provided it with >85% of it's rated speed which in turn caused pretty bad cooling performance. At that point it would start turning, but at a much slower speed than the other fans. Took me a few days to figure that out. Phils finished build montage videos are best in class as usual, looks awesome. Kudos to you sir.

[@RobertForslund]

Moral of the story; get a bigger case! 👀

[@BareFinn1986]

I used to have random shutdowns where the culprit was a Corsair commander pro with a faulty fan header. The funky thing is the faulty fan header wasn't even in use... I only found out when I needed the faulty header and RMA'd it... After it was changed no more random shutdowns.

[@khaychi]

I remember the reason now why i check if all fans are spinning once a month. 🤣

[@NathanielKempson]

As a model train guy, stuck motors draw a mad amount of power compared to what they are supposed to under normal working conditions. the motor tries to work harder to turn itself, but cant cos its stuck, so it draws MOOOOOORE then you get OCP issues. Or in the case of model trains, fire XD

[@bdifferentb]

I use low profile 140mm fans under my O11 Air Mini. Works great and allows me to mod the vertical bracket to put it closer to the bottom so it doesn't cut off the CPU cooler when looking at it..

[@turbo5546]

If that fan had been a DC fan it would have triggered OC protection instantly. Fans are electromagnets which are effectively a short. (The Coils engage and disengage as the fan spins so its not a constant short unless the fan is locked in on position.) When run in PWM mode they are always sent 12v, and the PWM signal just controls how long the on and off pulses are, the higher the PWM signal the longer it runs. Which makes sense as the PWN was set to 100% this worked out to a short on the 12v rail.

[@zwiemon]

When an electric motor is first starting up it has max torque and max current usage then when it's gotten up to speed the current drops to a normal amount If its stuck it's basically a short cirquit and your motherboard can detect this to prevent blowing up a fan header

[@roastflame9524]

This helped me out a lot I had this same problem with my laptop almost bought a new one because it couldn’t turn on and found the fan was not spinning and after removing the back of the laptop it work just fine😊 just had to loosen the screws.

[@alpenfoxvideo7255]

Jay, the easy way to fill these small loops is to have a section split by Quick Disconnects. you open them up to attach an external pump-res or empty tone to fill/drain

[@gustavomacias5892]

I've been a diagnostic technician for while now, it is possible that there is a 5v reference line that the pwm is looking for. So what basically happens is if the pwm does not see it, the fan than in turn calls for more power ie wattage. So the power supply would see that and kick in that resettable fuse due to that circuit that the fans run through on the motherboard were getting way above rating for that circuit from the motherboard to the power supply. EDIT: Thats why a lot of the higher end fans, lian li etc, use 4 point connectors instead of 3, because with a 4 point connector that has reference voltage it makes it more precise to control fan speed than it is in a 3 point connector if I'm making sense for ya.

[@ranch927]

I had the same problem with my nr200p build with the fan. My cpu power cable was pushed up against the fan grill because I ran it up over my air cooler. The insane thing was it only happened sometimes at certain temperatures due to thermal expansion.

[@cyberwaste]

I'm really interested in a custom loop for my system, CPU and GPU, but the price is just insane. I'm looking at $1,600+ AU. Got rent to pay... This problem is so nostalgic for me because over my 27 years of PC building, I've had this type of thing so many times. Good job figuring it out.

[@lunarnut]

When you said OCP, I immediately thought of Robocop before you said Over Current Protection... I'm a nerd... I'll see myself out...

[@victorm316]

Good job Jay, Tell Phil That is all I play is MSFS 2020, I'm actually watching this video while flying.

[@scoobtoober2975]

And when in the bios you sped the fans up. The feedback signal was wacked out right away and then it turned off right away. Cool and crappy. Good catch. That's a good safety measure on the cpu board logic.

[@kangjohan78]

My first troubleshooting was also my PC randomly shutting down. I would later confirm it to be the CPU overheating. After more troubleshooting, I found out the water cooling unit (it was a prebuild with some sort of OEM closed loop water cooling) was not working (pump dead). This was before I was into PC building. And let's just say after that, I gained enough knowledge to build my own PC, which I did.

[@chincemagnet]

Building custom loops can be extremely challenging, my most recent build was a massive pain, way too much for a tiny case, leaking fittings, poor pump pressure, fans not working properly, VRAM temps in the 80’s, even though core temps were sub 50 C.

[@gucky4717]

2:40 well when i shut off my PC that click is also a relais that shuts off the main 12V power in the PSU. Some TVs also do that when powering down. When I unplug my PC, I turn it on while unplugged to discharge any residual power. Usually the relais clicks twice, one for powering on and immediately again for turning off. FYI: A relais is a magnetic switch, when current goes through the magnet it pulls on a contact and closes a circuit. That is what is clicking. When you turn the PC off, the magnet looses its magnetic charge and lets go of the contact, opening the circuit and stopping the flow of electricity.

[@pedrotheswift5937]

I laughed out loud at the tearoff gag,, nice one Phil..